In the Arena

McCain and Iran

The New Republic perplexes me. It has some of the best and smartest writing around. And then it allows John McCain, whose lack of knowledge about Iran is encyclopedic, to hold forth in its pages. McCain, blustery as ever, wants regime change. Amen to that. But his vague, neocolonial sense that (a) we can help bring that about and (b)that the Iranian people want us to bring it about, is debatable, to say the very least. (Add: McCain claims to want peaceful regime change; but it was two months ago that he was explicitly supporting an American attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, which he may still.) In any case, his lack of knowledge–his tendency to bloviate without thinking–can be staggering, as in this case:

Is it any wonder that this is the same regime that spends its people’s precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all Iranians—but on funding violent groups of foreign extremists who murder the innocent?

Yes, the regime spends money funding noxious terrorist outfits like Hizballah. But it also spends vastly on its people. The road, school and medical systems far surpass those of neighboring countries–they approach the level achieved in that other regional petro-giant, Saudi Arabia  (the Iranian school system, though riddled with propaganda when it comes to the teaching of history, is excellent when it comes to math and science–and it is fully coeducational; Iran’s women are, without question, the best educated in the region).

More important, under Ahmadinejad, a phenomenal amount of money and attention has gone directly to the poor, especially the widows and children of the 1 million Iraq war casualties, raising them into the middle class. This sort of populism has been controversial among the conservative principalists close to the Supreme Leader; the faction led by the Larijani brothers and a fair number of Revolutionary Guard muckamucks believe that those funds should have gone to long-term economic development projects. Ahmadinejad’s populism, however, has had sort-term political benefits: he has the undying support of Iran’s less-educated workers. Indeed, as I reported last year, he might even have won the election (narrowly) if the votes had ever been counted. But the Revolutionary Guard regime was never going to take a chance on democracy.

In any case, life–and foreign policy, especially Iran–is never quite as simple as John McCain would make it. As much as we’d all like to see Iran have a government worthy of its people–and this is the greatest mismatch between a people and a government of any country in the world–an accurate sense of what the government does and does not do domestically is essential to formulating a policy avoids the historic stupidities the west has committed in dealing with Iran. I’d have hoped that the New Republic would have published something more insightful than this onanistic rant.

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  • sacredh

    “In any case, his lack of knowledge–his tendency to bloviate without thinking–can be staggering”
    .
    Staggering, yes. Surprising, no. The media continues to pretend that the John McCain of 2000 is still the McCain of 2010. He’s not. He ran one of the most inept campaigns of modern times, chose a woman that was clueless about the issues as his VP and lost by almost 9,000,000 votes in the general election. Why is his opinion worth anything on anything? Bernie Madoff is more trustworthy.

  • dwightjones

    I would be much more concerned with the dislocation between the American people and their government than with Iran’s. Or Iraq’s, Afghanistan’s, Pakistan’s or Israel’s for that matter, because the root cause is here.

    The US has been hijacked by the military for the past fifty years, snatched from Eisenhower’s hands and continuing into Obama’s impotence. When a country nobody would dare attack spends more than the rest of the world combined on weaponry – well, what would Jefferson think? Why is that idiocy unquestioned?

    Americans can longer afford this cynical oligarchy, and are now as broke as the British after WWII. Like an angry gambler out of cash, all that matters is that the game continue, no matter what it seems. Find some little guys to beat up.

    Who’s in?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    The entire strategy of the right wing of late (by which I mean at least the last ten years) is to not only embrace gross oversimplifications of problems and suggest solutions worthy of comic books, but then to actively mock and ridicule anybody who pulls up short and suggests that things might not be that simple.
    .
    It’s odd for me to hear you refer to someone else as ‘neocolonial’ since you seem to share faith in the ‘civilizing’ influence of US arms but I’m grateful that you took it upon yourself to actually travel to Iran and learn first hand what was happening.
    .
    Reliance on cartoon villians and dehumanizing rhetoric is a constant temptation but it’s results are invariably tragic.

  • sacredh

    “Why is that idiocy unquestioned?”
    .
    Because politicians are devious and people are gullible.

  • dwightjones

    “Reliance on cartoon villians and dehumanizing rhetoric is a constant temptation but it’s results are invariably tragic.”

    The traditional news media are lockstep with NATO, the militarists, the crooked stock market. Even Time here has a blogger reading the New Republic, not the New Dawn Leftist. :-)

    Every reporter they send on the road has to unlearn everything he’s been force fed before he even gets started..

  • danielatlanta

    I stopped giving any credence to John McCain’s military judgement when he got on stage in the 2004 election and put his arms around George W. Bush and commended him as the better man to be commander in chief. Setting aside the gross mismanagement of the Afghan and Iraq wars by Bush and his cronies, how could McCain, who spent much of the Vietnam war suffering abuse in a North Vietnamese prison camp, give a whole-hearted endorsement to a feckless slacker who spent much of the Vietnam war, by Bush’s own admission, getting hammered at bars and cocktail parties in Montgomery, Alabama? That’s when I realized just how much McCain had sold out his values over the years. I could never again trust his judgement or value his views after that.

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    John McCain’s an idiot, Joe. The rest of us figured it out quite a while ago. New here?

  • earljr1

    So, daniel, you end up with the pusillanimous Mr. Obama, who proceeds to hang Israel out to dry. How do you defend his policy in this arena? Do you think if Iran arms itself with a nuclear weapon, they will use it against Israel? What should the United States be doing to prevent this from happening? Your earlier posts indicate sound reasoning and the correct level of pragmatism, so I would be interested in learning your perspective on this important issue.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “We now need Congress to finish the Iran sanctions bill, so we can pass it without delay. And we need the administration to impose new targeted sanctions against those Iranian officials, businesses, and banks that promote the regime’s most dangerous policies —and we need our partners in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East to do the same.”
    .
    Sanctions of various kinds have not worked in promoting opposition. It is a strategy which failed in Iraq among countless other countries.
    .
    Iranian leaders since 1979 have used the US and the West as a scapegoat. To tighten the grip on a country with sanctions does little but to convince the people that all suffering they endure is due to the US.
    .
    I vigorously applaud the forces of democracy in Iran but know that any hopes for a future of democracy in Iran must be done of, by and for the Iranian people and, outside of morale support by broadcasting what we can get through the internet of their terrible plight and wish them the best, there is little we can do.
    .
    Neocons always seem to get this backwards. If in 1776 a huge invading army came in from France to make America independent from England, we all know that the British Colonial Army (The Tories) and the Patriots would have temporarily banned together along with regular British forces and repelled the French. Had the French Navy in 1776 cut off our ports from the English wishing us to separate from England, we would have, also, been fighting along side the English to remove the French.
    .
    There are the same Neocons who are enraged when the UN is even critical of the US.
    .
    Yet, strangely enough, Neocons seem to think that every country in the world wants to see their neighbors driven out of business, starved or even blown up by US bombs as a basis for democracy.
    .
    John McCain keeps on drifting off further and further to the right well into the realm of total nonsense.
    .
    Wars and sanctions strengthen, not weaken the domestic power of regimes and weaken not strengthen the opposition.

  • allthingsinaname

    “I vigorously applaud the forces of democracy in Iran but know that any hopes for a future of democracy in Iran must be done of, by and for the Iranian people and, outside of morale support by broadcasting what we can get through the internet of their terrible plight and wish them the best, there is little we can do.”

    >
    I agree

  • Alex Vallas

    This was an extremely interesting article. Years ago I was stationed in Baghdad. At that time the medical system (if you can call it that) was abhorent. Men were urinating in the corridors of hospitals. I had a problem and went to a doctor at Baghdad Hospital. He took a wooden tongue blade out of dirty water to check my throat. I said “no thanks” and went to the American University Hospital in Beirut for further examination. The facilities there were outstanding as were the staff. In Iraq, most women were almost completely covered and veiled. Under Sadaam, who was undoubtedly a horrible man with dispictable sons, it must be said he did a lot for the ordinary citizens. There were modern hospitals. Women were allowed to become lawyers and doctors and wore western dress. They could even frequent women’s tea houses unescorted. The US Government made the country sound like it was 40 years ago when they attacked. They pictured the people as near starvation, then you look at pictures (thanks to modern TV) and the men look almost too much like overweight Americans. They also appeared in sports attire similar to European countries. These are just observations and certainly not an endorsement of Sadaams brutal side.

  • apr2563

    John McCain is a media produced myth. They have rarely looked beyond his POW history to discover that it has always been about McCain. His so called bipartisanship has been used to promote himself. See how quickly he has turned on his own “maverickiness”. The maverick myth bought into by the traditional media. Even now, when reporting McCain’s latest falsehood, they will often preface it by saying they like McCain but…
    .
    Who cares if they like any politician. I just want them to do their job. Report the news.

  • pdzxc

    Joe, it is obvious that McCain was proposing a peaceful attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities, maybe special forces infiltrate and give them the rasberry, or we attack with a blimp trailing a “Regime Change Now” sign.

  • sevenoaks07

    Daniel has filed some interesting comments and reflects a thoughtfulness that is welcome. I have never understood the Boys on the Bus and McPain. But Joe does raise an interesting point: what has happened to the New Republic? Doesn’t he know that Marty Rant owns it and for all the good stuff they put out there is some appalling stuff to please Marty.

    As for Iran: I don’t know how we can help? The opposition needs to work this out internally because our help will condemn individuals and even small groups to certain imprisonment, torture and in some cases death. American support helps Ahmedinejad, who, has Joe points out, has done a lot for the poor and ex-soldiers of the Iran-Iraq War. But he, too, is limited by his reliance on the Revolutionary Guards, perhaps the biggest business establishment in Iran doing much business with China.

    Funny how China is in India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran doing business while we are ……

  • Art Pepper

    …the same regime that spends its people’s precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all Iranians…

    Wait, so John McCain thinks it’s good for government to spend money on roads, schools, hospitals, and jobs?

  • Cliff

    this is the same regime that spends its people’s precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all Iranians—but on funding violent groups of foreign extremists who murder the innocent?

    .
    Trade “Americans” for “Iranians” and “Blackwater” and “Pinochet” for “foreign extremists” and you have an exaggerated but mostly accurate statement.
    .
    But of course this is John McCain we’re talking about, so self reflection doesn’t ever begin to enter the picture.

  • hellslittlestangel

    The truest thing McCain ever said was that Sarah Palin was his soulmate. He’s maybe a little bit smarter, and certainly a little bit sneakier, than her. Any other differences are cosmetic.

  • sevenoaks07

    Cliff: McCain has been looking into a mirror for some time now and is very pleased with what he sees.

  • Cliff

    I would say he’s been looking into a picture of himself dressed in Napoleonic gear riding a white horse into battle and is very pleased with what he sees.

  • acvmd

    Onanistic? Really?

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    You don’t disagree, do you?
    -
    McCain’s essay fails to engage with reality. It is a self-flattering fantasy.

  • Ivy_B

    Glenn Greenwald has a take on McCain’s article as well.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

  • redraven937

    Do you think if Iran arms itself with a nuclear weapon, they will use it against Israel?

    Nope.
    .
    Next question.

  • apr2563

    Please, keep John McCain away from Iran policy. Journalists by and large missed one of the most riveting events I have observed: The Green Revolution.
    .
    Thank goodness for the Internet. Watching the brave participants gave one hope for them but also, the need for us to be cautious. Their calls from the rooftops at night were inspiring.
    .
    During the Hungarian revolution, we promised much more than we could ever deliver. My Aunt and Uncle took in and boarded 3 young men that escaped Hungary. They were brave but disappointed. Also, they were proud of their people and knew better than we did what was possible.
    .
    McCain needs to stop making generalizations and quit politicizing the Iranian issue. Neda died for her beliefs and it is best to honor her and her compatriots and let them decide what is best for their country.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Yeah, I read that yesterday–brilliant, as always.
    .
    This line from Mac was the most insane:
    .
    “We — the government and the people of the United States — need to stand up for the Iranian people. We need to make their goals our goals, their interests our interests, their work our work.”
    .
    Aside from the fact that the Iranian people obviously & uniformly don’t want Anglo-American “solutions” after a century of tortured history courtesy of the two empires. Aside from the immeasurable arrogance of such a statement. What galls me the most is his selectiveness. The Iranian people but not the oppressed people in Myanmar or the Congo or the Sudan or Egypt? What are the Iranian people’s interests of such vital concern to John McCain? I wonder…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    The Hungarian uprising is a classic and obvious example of the US promising what we were not prepared to deliver in terms of helping a people stand up to an oppressive government.
    .
    More regionally and an event of people my own age (if generation X had a classic generation name we would be the Gulf War One generation since the huge majority of the people who were sent were born between 1961 and 1972 – about half of Gen X) when the Kurds rebelled right across the border from US troops who had taken back Kuwait in 1991. The movie Three Kings is a semi-comical movie depicting this.
    .
    I bet if any of us had a nose in an international relations textbook right now we could find even more examples of when we make promises that logistically, even for the US is not possible to deliver but that was an excellent example.

  • kbanginmotown

    @daniel: You’ve expressed some interesting views in the past; I find this one refreshing.
    .
    I had a similar “McCain moment” in 2004, waiting, in vain, for him to rebuke the GOP convention-goers for their disrespectful display of “Purple-Heart Band-Aids”.
    .
    (Frankly, I don’t see how the RWers on this site can continue to be aligned with a party that disrespects wounded military veterans this manner…)

  • kbanginmotown

    @apr: Didn’t you get the memo a couple of months ago? McCain never called himself a “maverick”…
    .
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-6-2010/say-anything

  • geo1671

    “McCain, blustery as ever, wants regime change. Amen to that!”
    Sure fella,regime change to the liking of }sreal Blood sucking bats.
    I’m wondering if this Kosher author has anything nice to say about Iran. Try this @sshole– OVER 255 YEARS,Iran has NOT invaded any country.How about Demockracy thugs/Pirates like USA and Israel And let’s not for get England. Because of these Ashkenazi monsters, Millions upon millions have died!
    Speaking of Regime change–When the Government allows an abortion Israel.to kill American citizens at will and without a complaint- ( If you don’t believe by now that Israel did Sept 11 2001 attacks— Fools, go back to sleep.-that’s where regime change is needed–by hanging the scums in Washington
    Regarding McCain, this doltz should have never left Vetinam alive–

  • danielatlanta

    “Do you think if Iran arms itself with a nuclear weapon, they will use it against Israel?”
    -
    No. I believe that the mullahs realize that Iran would be quarantined economically by the rest of the world after an atomic attack on Israel, even if they could somehow survive the Israeli retaliation, which is doubtful. There is no winning scenario for Iran.

  • danielatlanta

    earl, if Iran does get a nuclear capability, this will make it almost impossible for Iran to launch any kind of aggression toward Israel. If they launch a missile at Israeli territory, for example, even if it is conventional and not nuclear, the Israelis will have to react as if it is nuclear, and that probably means a nuclear response by Israel against Iran. So, by going nuclear, Iran might be moving to tie its own hands behind its back with respect to Israel. Of course, the problem of Iran working through surrogates remains, but I don’t foresee Iran giving any of its surrogates nuclear weapons for use against Israel, either, for the same reason they will not be able to use even their conventional weapons against Israel once they get a nuclear capability.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Geo,
    .
    You’ve got problems. It might be the fact that Nazis lost World War II that has you upset, but, I, for one, find your referring the author’s ethnicity extremely offensive.
    .
    Nobody wants an Iranian Theocracy to remain in power. That is the topic, not Israel.

  • freeinpa

    And then it allows John McCain, whose lack of knowledge about Iran is encyclopedic, to hold forth in its pages.
    ==

    JK:

    Substitute Joe Klein for John McCain and Iran for any subject and the same question can be asked of Time!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    How come a man who claims to have a daughter in the seventh grade only has comebacks that a third grader would?
    .
    You really need to spend more time learning comebacks from your daughter.
    .
    Better yet, why don’t you spend every evening with your daughter, having dinner with the wife, helping her with her homework and STAYING OFFLINE! It would make alot of people very happy – except, probably, your daughter.

  • kujan

    Joe Klein thinks Glenn Beck is guilty of sedition but Ahmadinejad does a lot for his people. Joe Klein admires a Vice-President who thinks that the US and NATO drove Hezbollah out of Lebanon but thinks John McCain is an extremist for wanting to keep the promise Barack Obama made – that Iran will never be allowed to go nuclear. Joe Klein thinks Sarah Palin is a dangerous ideologue but excuses Mahmoud’s “Israel is a cancer” because he educates the women of his country, presumably on exactly how Israel is a cancer.

    How is it that in an economy with near 10% unemployment Barack Obama hasn’t found a way to lose Joe Klein his job?

  • bcinaz

    “…spends its people’s precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all…”

    Irony is alive and well in John McCain’s head. A totally loaded phrase for a guy who won’t support any policy that might benefit anyone living in the middle class or in poverty.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Joe Klein thinks Glenn Beck is guilty of sedition..”
    .
    That was a question he asked us and presented an argument. Sedition is advocating an armed insurrection against our own government.
    .
    “Joe Klein thinks Glenn Beck is guilty of sedition but Ahmadinejad does a lot for his people.”
    .
    Talk about apples and oranges! Do you recommend that the FBI knock on Ahmadinejad’s door and serve him a warrant for arrest? Wow, there would be no war if every time anybody in any country recommend the overthrow of somebody else’s government police from that foreign country come by and arrest them. You’re right, all we had to do is send the NYPD to go arrest Hitler when he declared war against the US. I am sure that the Gestapo would have helped.
    .
    “..Ahmadinejad does a lot for his people.”
    .
    This is true especially by the extremely low bar set by oil producing states and impoverished countries. It was just a contradiction of John McCain’s incorrect statement. One of the things we do not hate about Iran is their health care system or welfare policies.
    .
    “Joe Klein… thinks John McCain is an extremist for wanting to keep the promise Barack Obama made – that Iran will never be allowed to go nuclear.”
    .
    When did Joe advocate allowing any nuclear hardware, any military hardware or duel usage material be allowed into Iran?
    .
    “Joe Klein thinks Sarah Palin is a dangerous ideologue but excuses Mahmoud’s “Israel is a cancer” ”
    .
    When did Joe advocate Ahmadinejad run for even dog catcher in the Republican Party or that we have sanctions against Alaska? One is a statement that we should not starve thousands of people and the other is that we should not choose a person to lead us. There are many foreign leaders I would never want to serve in any office in the US who I would, also, not go to war with. I, vehemently opposed the Bush regime, but did not believe that we should have had a revolution.
    .
    If you can not make these simple distinctions, then, clearly, you must not be able to dress yourself in the morning.
    .
    Is this how the right wing thinks? No distinctions between disagreeing and invading, no distinctions between arresting an individual and invading a country and no distinction between a positive statement about social services and advocating that somebody be president of the United States?
    .
    What’s wrong with you?

  • abdullah69

    McCain should understand from first hand experience that it is impossible to make people like you and absorb your values at the end of a gun. Yet this is precisely what he assumes is the case in defining an American foreign policy based on conquest , which after the collapse of the thousand year reich, no one believes in anyway.

    After 9/11 the US could have examined the ways in which it reacted with the rest of the world, but it chose not to do so. And I am sure Osama was banking on that.

  • apr2563

    kbang: thanks for the Daily Show link. As always, Stewart right on the money. It is funny because Stewart always liked McCain, had him on many times, and finally got what a phoney he is.

  • wxsnoozle

    McCain seems to have swallowed neoconservatism, hook, line, and sinker. Of course, the overriding ideology of neoconservatism regarding Iran is “regime change” by any means available to the U.S. Preferably force…from the U.S. or Israel.

    Iranians have a long, bitter memory of U.S. regime change dating back to the 1950s…and the installation of the much-hated Shah. Thus, the only regime change that will work is one that comes from within. Any hint of American involvement in the fall of Achmadinajahd/Khameini would likely be met by a fierce & aggressive popular nationalism. Regime change might end up being a much worse situation than now.

    Of course, Iran has a long history of ideological intransigence and funding its continuation of the “Islamic Revolution”. But amidst the craziness, there was also the fax of 2003. Iran fought Iraq to a standstill for 8 long years and the U.S. brought down Saddam in 3 weeks. A nervous Iran sent a fax through the Swiss; it basically capitulated to ALL negotiating points that had been brought forward. The Bush neoconservatives ignored the fax…ignorant of the troubles to come in Iraq & preferring regime change in Iran.

    My point is that they have shown they are subject to reason (albeit, with a gun pointed at them). And in that regard, the Obama Administration has steadily, with nuance, and patiently applied great diplomatic pressure. The UN sanctions are stiff and they’re going to get stiffer. Russia & China have been brought on board; this week, Russia has said that it will not supply air defense materiel to Iran. If it is to be believed, an air “avenue” has been approved for Israeli planes to fly freely through northern Saudi Arabia. Perhaps, this ratcheting up of the consequences will bring the pragmatists forward and the regime to the table.

    The regime will do anything to stay in power…including saving its own skin from imminent multinationally-approved aggression.

    Iran is indeed a great danger to the entire region. It is indeed an even greater danger to Israel. ONE Iranian nuke could wipe out Israel while it would take a lot of nukes in retaliation from Israel. Imagine one of the two Iranian puppets (Hamas or Hesbollah) setting off a dirty bomb in Israel…and Iran shrugging its shoulders and saying, “Hey, it wasn’t me!”.

    Iran must be dealt with…but with heavy-duty diplomacy and painful sanctions first. And that seems to be happening.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Imagine one of the two Iranian puppets (Hamas or Hesbollah) setting off a dirty bomb in Israel.”
    .
    One thing many have misunderstood about a dirty bomb and why it has not been used: it is totally ineffective and not significantly worse than a tactical weapon, just more dangerous to the producers and far, far more expensive.
    .
    “Effect of a dirty bomb explosion

    When dealing with the implications of a dirty bomb attack, there are two main areas to be addressed: (i) the civilian impact, not only dealing with immediate casualties and long term health issues, but also the psychological effect and then (ii) the economic impact. With no prior event of a dirty bomb detonation, it is considered difficult to predict the impact. Several analyses have predicted that RDDs will neither sicken nor kill many people.[9]”
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_bomb#Effect_of_a_dirty_bomb_explosion
    .
    It would be a nuclear explosion which should be most feared.

  • michaelfury

    “Admiral Cosgriff’s caution was well founded: within a week, the Pentagon acknowledged that it could not positively identify the Iranian boats as the source of the ominous radio transmission, and press reports suggested that it had instead come from a prankster long known for sending fake messages in the region. Nonetheless, Cosgriff’s demeanor angered Cheney, according to the former senior intelligence official. But a lesson was learned in the incident: The public had supported the idea of retaliation, and was even asking why the U.S. didn’t do more. The former official said that, a few weeks later, a meeting took place in the Vice-President’s office. “The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,” he said.”

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/06/09/some-stunt/

  • pintortwo

    Mahmoud’s “Israel is a cancer”
    .
    In a speech discussing the Gazan conflict, Ayatollah Khamenei called the “Zionist regime” that rules Israel a “cancerous tumor”. He was not talking about Israel, Israelis or Jews, but the current government of Israel.
    .
    His suggestion:
    .
    Our proposal is a solution, which is in total agreement with democracy and can form a common logical basis. That proposal is that all those who have a legitimate stake in the territory of Palestine, including Muslims, Christians and Jews should choose their own system of government in a general referendum.
    .
    - http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=87465&sectionid=3510302

  • http://djtrudeau.wordpress.com djtrudeau

    I don’t have kind thoughts for the current regime in Iran, but we cannot afford to be manipulated by them anymore. It drives me nuts that folks like John McCain think “being tough” is standing up to them when in reality it plays right into the regime’s hands. The ayatollah needs the public to concentrate their fear and anger on “outside aggressors” to hold on to power. Their war with Iraq may have cost millions of Iranian lives, but it added many years to the regime’s control of Iranian society.

    I’m torn on sanctions. I don’t like the idea of a nuclear Iran but we’re left in a position with no one correct answer. The President has brought down the rhetoric, which was the most important thing. Are his sanctions the correct move? I don’t know but they’re less wrong than others and that’s about the best we can do right now. Everything else is in the hands of the Iranians.

    And lest we forget that the great nuclear threat is in Pakistan. We can worry all day about nuclear Iran but Pakistan is still Al-Qeda’s best friend and we know they’re armed.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Is it any wonder that this is the same regime that spends its people’s precious resources not on roads, or schools, or hospitals, or jobs that benefit all”
    .
    Military Budget spending, NATO countries:
    1. United States of America 667.7 billions
    2. United Kingdom 57.670 billions
    .
    We spend more than ten times as much on our military as the next biggest NATO spender.
    .
    Now, that’s irony.

  • pintortwo

    wxsnoozle- I enjoyed your well-considered comment and I’m in general agreement with you. I do however, disagree with two points you make.
    .
    Iran is indeed a great danger to the entire region. It is indeed an even greater danger to Israel.
    .
    Is that true? Patrick discusses the “dirty bomb” aspect, so I won’t. But the Iranian air-force and navy are basically impotent when compared to Israeli capabilities or what the US can bring to the region. I think the “danger” presented by Iran is more bluster than reality.
    .
    Also: Obama Administration has steadily, with nuance, and patiently applied great diplomatic pressure.
    .
    I’ve asked for examples of these diplomatic overtures before (ie, has Obama asked our Swiss Ambassador to inquire about the faxed proposal?). It seems, to my observation, that Obama has demanded concession on “ALL negotiating points” before diplomacy can begin. And since the suspect Iranian elections and subsequent Green Movement, our position has been essentially “we refuse to negotiate with you due to your offensive tactics- your failure to negotiate with us has necessitated harsher sanctions”, the former is reasonable to me, the latter makes me believe that sanctions were the goal from the start. Overall, it doesn’t seem like much of an improvement over the previous administration, if any.

  • sacredh

    “Now, that’s irony.”
    .
    That’s not irony. That’s just McCain talking out his ass again without considering anything other than keeping his face in the news again. John has fallen and fallen hard but he still acts like he’s a respected elder statesman. The media keeps trying to convince him (and us) that his opinions are important. He more than willing to believe it.

  • Ffred

    What a shame that McCain’s primary opponent is an even bigger slimeball. What AZ really needs are some credible Dem candidates.

  • centfan

    So when are McCain and Palin going to sit and be interviewed together on “This Could Have Been Your Present Administration America”?
    -
    Think of the ground they could cover in answers about oil spills, terrorists, the economy, and immigration. All in their own words… live. I say they do it just before the 2010 elections…
    -
    One rule only… they can’t refer to this administration. They can only pose the answers as “If I were President/Vice President I would… “

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “It drives me nuts that folks like John McCain think “being tough” is standing up to them when in reality it plays right into the regime’s hands.”
    .
    I wish I said that. It’s more brief than my rambling style.

  • stewartiii

    NewsBusters: TIME’s Klein Attacks The New Republic for Printing McCain Piece Critical of Obama Regarding Iran
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2010/06/14/times-klein-attacks-john-mccain-challenging-lack-obama-leadership-iran

  • wxsnoozle

    @patricksartor, I refer to the dirty bomb merely as the height of terrorism to which Hamas or Hezbollah might aspire. I agree totally that a dirty bomb is relatively-speaking an inefficient means of killing people. But it would be an extremely effective means of psychological terror…and would have substantial repercussions. Of course, a nuclear bomb is a far-greater threat. One would assume that any first generation Iranian nuclear device would be delivered by a ballistic missile and not by a sophisticated “suitcase bomb” via Hamas or Hesbollah.

    @pintortwo: Point 1: I agree that it isn’t its armed forces which present such a threat to Israel and the region; it’s the insidious, terroristic nature of Hesbollah and Hamas. And it’s the fact that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon. Couple all this with the fact that Achmadinajahd has denied the Holocaust and repeatedly called for the destruction of the “Zionist entity” (Israel). Additionally, Iran represents a Shia-Sunni confrontation to the rest of the (predominately Sunni) Muslim world. Saudi Arabia, for example, is highly opposed to Iranian nuclear ambitions.

    Point 2: The “fax of 2003″ is now ancient history; the Bush Administration thought it had gigantic gonads at the time and didn’t even bother to reply. At the time, it was pursuing a totally neoconservative policy toward Iran. And with its seeming spectacular success in Iraq (at the time!), the neoconservatives felt that regime change in Iran would come soon…at the barrel of a gun. Of course, the Iraq War was a huge failure shortly thereafter and Iran became greatly emboldened. During the 2nd term of the Bush Administration, there were some feeble attempts to rein in Iran (minor UN sanctions). There was also a great deal of serious sabre-rattling against Iran by Cheney, etc. late in the Bush years. The sabre-rattling and further sanctions came to an end with the release of a “National Intelligence Estimate” (NIE) which greatly downplayed Iranian nuclear capabilities and aspirations. However, this NIE was likely softened a great deal by the intelligence community’s fear of (again!) starting a war based on faulty intelligence. Also, there were likely laudable motivations to keep a trigger-happy administration from invading Iran.

    Which brings us to the Obama Administration. There have been numerous musings as to whether the advent of Obama actually had something to do with the Green Revolution. Remember that with the Bush Administration, the sabre-rattling was severely threatening to Iran. With candidate Obama stating that he would actually speak with Iranian leadership. With Pres. Obama reaching out to the Muslim world, some think that the Green Revolution was a call for a more moderate Iran to deal with a more moderate America. We’ll never know with certainty, but this does seem palpable. Obama has never, ever flatly refused to negotiate with Iran (he has refused to negotiate if it would be an exercise in futility…Iran’s good at that).

    As for concrete diplomatic overtures (off the top of my head), Iran was generously offered low-grade uranium enrichment via France and Russia. If they are indeed seeking uranium purely for power generation, then this was a bargain. They mulled it over for a few months, sounding interested at first, then turned it down. These were the serious concessions offered by the U.S. and its multilateral partners in seeking an Iranian solution. (There may have been other concessions, but this is the only one I can remember for now…but it’s the big one). After rejecting concessions and almost simultaneously announcing that it would step up uranium enrichment, the UN recently took the sanctions to their toughest point ever. The unilateral decision by Russia (Iran’s neighbor) to withhold air defense technology can also be seen as a major U.S. victory. Considering Russia’s long ties with Iran and its tenuous relationship with the closing years of the Bush Administration, this is a big turn-about. China has been reluctant in the past, but has also been brought on-board into tough sanctions. Together with the European nations, Obama has forged a multinational front seeking to coax, cajole, and ultimately modify Iran’s behavior.

    One last very quick note as to Israel and its fears vis-a-vis Iran. I agree totally with Joe Klein in his condemnation of recent Israeli behavior (flotilla, Biden/settlements, etc.). With Bibi’s tail between his legs…& tough Iranian sanctions, perhaps there’s room for all at the table.

  • wxsnoozle

    Dang! Paragraph breaks didn’t work. Sorry ’bout that!

  • http://robt55.wordpress.com robt55

    Good thing we didn’t elect McCain. The war would still be raging, foreclosures at record highs, bank closures at all time highs, FISA would still be in effect, partisan politics would be the order of the day, GITMO would still be going strong, the deficit would be soaring, an d the dollar would be nearly worthless. As a matter of fact, I bet we would have to deal with the largest, most costly, worst environmental disaster in this nations history. Yep, good thing Obozzo is in control.

  • choonzer

    Excellent points, robt55. Too bad hindsight is always 20/20. I have no doubt that the McPalin team would have immediately reversed the effects of the greatest recession since the Great Depression, slammed Gitmo shut, and abandoned our 2 wars. McCain, who recently promised not to cooperate with anything proposed by the current administration, would have undoubtedly been the very model of bipartisanship. And this “drill baby drill” duo would almost certainly have immediately clamped down on the oil industry, forcing tighter regs and magically averting said environmental disaster. If only we had it to do all over again!

  • tontogoldberg

    Joe, you sound like an idiot. Walk away from the thesaurus, drop the baseless accusations and focus on the facts. That said, I’m not a huge fan of McCain, but I’ve got to say, well, your rant makes you sound like an idiot.

  • vintel7

    McCain is an old man whose time came and went a long time ago. It is sad to see an old man cling to his persona….his persona as a Senator…from which he derives all of his egoic strength (or lack thereof). McCain suffers from deep narcissism. It is so obvious. The old man never developed an identity outside of the Congress. Some war “hero” also. McCain cracked under VC interrogation and sold out the USA under pressure. Yet, everyone holds him up to be this big war hero. Meanwhile, an actual war hero like John Kerry gets no notice. McCain has milked his phony war hero identity for as much as it is worth and Americans have been the suckers that fell for it.

  • markomd

    Long ago, Senators McCain and Lieberman provided an independent influence in a Senate dominated by hard core partisans in both parties. Each of them has long since sold out and become partisan only to his own oversized ego. Now, McCain is sucking up to the Tea Party anarchists with only one goal in mind: To be reelected. He is one of the pusillanimous bums who most deserves to be replaced by someone with integrity, however difficult that may be in Arizona.

  • 1zb1

    You fools!!!! Of course Iran will nuke Israel. Thee devices smuggled or otherwise gotten into the country would essentially wipe away Israel. Even if Israel does retaliate and say take out Tehran and a few other cities do you really think the Mullahs and Red Guard will care that a few million of what are mostly their trouble making reformists are dead? As far they are concerned Israel will have done their dirty work for them – kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

    Will the world care? Maybe for about 6 months or so when you can bet China and everyone else will go right back to buying Iranian oil.

    And anyone who doesn’t think that anti-Semitism is alive and well in the US and the rest of the world is delusional. Half the world will be glad to see the “Jewish Problem” solved, and the world safe to exploit oil to feed their addiction. Shame on us. Shame on all of us. zb

  • 1zb1

    You fools!!!! Of course Iran will nuke Israel. Thee devices smuggled or otherwise gotten into the country would essentially wipe away Israel. Even if Israel does retaliate and say take out Tehran and a few other cities do you really think the Mullahs and Red Guard will care that a few million of what are mostly their trouble making reformists are dead? As far they are concerned Israel will have done their dirty work for them – kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

    Will the world care? Maybe for about 6 months or so when you can bet China and everyone else will go right back to buying Iranian oil.

    And anyone who doesn’t think that anti-Semitism is alive and well in the US and the rest of the world is delusional. Half the world will be glad to see the “Jewish Problem” solved, and the world safe to exploit oil to feed their addiction. Shame on us. Shame on all of us.

    PS: Besides that McCain is an idiot. He almost makes Sara Palin seem only modestly sub-intelligent rather then a complete moron. He gives being old a bad name. zb

  • http://sbluitt.wordpress.com sbluitt

    Fool!? Ha! Great way to speak up for the Jewish cause. I totally support SMASHING Iran and COMPLETELY BANKRUPTING the US with an unwarranted war! Did we not do the exact same thing with Iraq and look where that has gotten us? So, I ask everyone, who is the paranoid fool who doen’t learn from past mistakes!?

    Better yet, fool, don’t you know that Israel already have nukes and will bomb Iran if they got a phone call from Dionne Warrick saying that they were “close” to completing a bomb? Secondly, do you really believe that Iran can hide and build a bomb with IAEA noticing – that’s what the Bush administration tried to sell for their Iraq Invasion/Occupation. They tried to tell us to wait on Iraq and we didn’t listen so I betting that the US will be more patient that you this round. Plus, Iran is not Iraq and Iranians may hate their leaders but I know they love their country. So I am sure the Iranian citizens would object to us riding in to “bring democracy to Iran” via cruise missle and predator drone.

    Each year when I go to Europe, it amazes me how unconcerned European countries could care less about Iran. Not so say Iran has the potential to be a threat but shouldn’t neighboring countries be concerned as well? Since they are closer within striking distance and all. Iran is no threat whatsoever to the US. So why should we care? Haven’t we done enough for Israel by providing them a military arsenal with nuclear capabilities?

    I say, if Iranian neighboring countries are not concerned then the US should not be as well! Let the UN do their jobs with the UN Security Council and IAEA. Did we not learn from Iraq? Please say “yes.” Please!?

    There are alot of things alive and well in the US and I hardly think anti-Semitism is on the top 10 list. I would say that half the world needs to get involved to solve the Palestinian/Israeli problem. The oil thing is a bit 80s and if you can’t tell with the recent BP disaster will a non-issue in about 30-50 years. Because each time something happens “over there,” they look at the US to do something. The US is not the only super power and we are not even close to the region.

    The real shame is the violence that has been back in forth from both the Israelis and Palestinians and the one sided approach the US has taken over the past 20 years that has fan the flames of mistrust and hatred in the middle east. This mistrust and hatred did not come from nowhere!

    SIGH!

    I wish we can delegate where my tax dollars go because I am sure every American would have jobs, education, and health as the most important priority! We wouldn’t have such a bloat military budgets that spends and spends and spends on we don’t know what.

    According to this insanity, who cares if we are bankrupt and all our money for education and healthcare is being wasting on WHATEVER overseas!

    A REAL AMERICAN WHO CARES ABOUT THE USA

    If you really want to help Israel, stop making illusional allegations against Iran and go there like some of my Jewish family members and friends and help! Dammit!

  • captlee

    “John McCain is a legend in his own mind.” “There, but for the grace of God, goes God.”

    I wish those insults were original with me. I am sorry that I cannot give them proper attribution.

  • facethenathan

    John McCain, like his father before him, is a shameless servant of the Israel lobby. His father, U.S. Navy Admiral John S. McCain, was involved in white-washing Israel’s fully intentional and murderous attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in 1967. McCain married into a wealthy family of mob-connected Arizona liquor racketeers linked to the uber-Zionist Bronfman-Lansky crime empire. When the Israel lobby cracks the whip, McCain and his ilk perform like circus animals.

  • jkhamlin

    Clueless about the issues? Palin is far more correct and knowledgeable about the issues than our current president and bumbling VP combined.

  • jaeran

    Speaking as an independent, I have to say that while you or I may disagree with individual decisions made by the President or Vice President, there’s no question that they’re far more knowledgeable and better-informed than Sarah Palin. Don’t give me the “gotcha” journalism excuse. The questions were always fair and mind-numbingly simple, and she was just unprepared.

    Her ideas are either infuriatingly vague/simple/general, completely stupid, or fed to her by people who know a whole lot more. Senior McCain campaign staff have come forward all telling the same story of how she had to “cram” for debates and such, because she was woefully uninformed. And to top it off, now she’ll only have an aborted gubernatorial term and trivial news correspondent experience under her belt. She’s not ready for politics, and likely never will be. People need to stop taking attacks on Palin as attacks on their party and everyone in it. There are far smarter and more capable women in the Republican party than her. Let’s see them. She’s an embarrassment, and the longer you stick by her, the worse it’s looking on you.

    Obama, regardless of his experience/decisions so far, is very intelligent and well-educated, and as a constitutional law scholar/professor, he’s much better equipped than Palin strictly in a comparative sense. Biden spent nearly four decades in the Senate, and has chaired powerful and important committees, including the Judiciary and Foreign Relations.

    Whether there’s a better candidate than Obama waiting in the wings, I can’t say, but it is NOT Palin.

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