In the Arena

Loathsome

Michael Rubin does some completely spurious calculations regarding the $400,ooo million in aid that the Obama Administration is planning to give the Palestinian Authority:

1. There have been eight terrorist attacks against Israel since Obama’s inauguration, so Obama is paying President Abbas a modest sum of $50 million per attack.

2. The were 2,048 rockets and mortars fired from Gaza into Israel in 2008, but let’s not hold that against President Obama since, obviously, to channel our commander-in-chief, that was President Bush’s fault. And during Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli incursion into Gaza from January 1–18, 406 rockets were fired into Israel. Again, let’s not count these against Obama; he hadn’t taken his oath of office yet. Since Hamas’s third ceasefire, however, there have been 370 missiles firedfrom Gaza into Israel. So, if we want to discount terrorist attacks and just count missile attacks, then President Obama is rewarding Hamas to the tune of $1,080,000 for every rocket or mortar launched.

What Rubin doesn’t mention, of course, is that the Palestinian Authority is, in effect, at war with Hamas–and that Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad has been doing unprecedented work in creating a stable, secure environment on the West Bank, where there has been 8.5% GDP growth in the past year according to the World Bank…and where this $400 million will be spent. The Israeli government, minus its more extreme life forms, acknowledges that this is true–and has been helping the process by eliminating check points and other unnecessary accoutrements of occupation on the West Bank. The creation of a prosperous, well-educated Palestinian middle class is precisely what is needed to counter the terrorist excesses of Hamas–but Rubin, who seems a rather rabid puppy, is one of those people who looks at Palestinians and sees only terrorists. Very ugly stuff, this–especially the Muslim-tainted splashback on the President, who is clearly doing the right thing here.

Related Topics: abu Mazen, Salam Fayyad, West Bank, Uncategorized
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  • groenhagen2

    The Palestinian Authority is at war with Hamas? That must explain why the PA gave money to the father of a Hamas terrorist:
    http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/eng/sib/10_04/oct_02.htm

    Liberace opens the door into his own face again.

  • merlanai

    Part of the reason Hamas is popular in Gaza is that it does provide some form of community support. It’s not good community support, but in the eyes of the people who live there it’s better than nothing. Giving money to the Palestinian Authority (which is friendly towards Israel and the west) will help it gain ground.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    400,000 or 4,000,000?

  • groenhagen2

    Ismail Haniyeh, the prime minister of the Palestinian National Authority, is also a senior leader of Hamas.

  • Joe Klein

    Well, Groen–there was the armed struggle between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas during the Hamas coup in Gaza….and then there’s this:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/dubai/7267158/Fatah-members-linked-with-assassination-of-Hamas-commander-in-Dubai.html

  • Joe Klein

    It’s $400 million, corrected above. Thanks, Paul.

  • Joe Klein

    Uh-oh, Groen, wrong again. Salam Fayyad, a respected economist formerly with the World Bank, is the Prime Minister of the Palestinian National Authority.

  • danielatlanta

    George W. Bush, with his democracy for the sake of democracy (without doing any ground work to create the institutions that make democracy function democratically) is the one who created the Hamas nightmare in Gaza. Obama is just trying to clean up the mess Bush left him. Let’s give this new Obama initiative some time to play out and see if the financial aid will help create a better chance of a stable and dependable Palestinian social infrastructure. That is what is needed, and that seems to be what Obama is trying to foster.

  • http://milascurtains.wordpress.com milascurtains

    it is impossible to take sides in there.
    The less we involved the better

  • pintortwo

    Rubin is, no doubt, thrilled with this response. Self-professed liberals and conservatives will bicker, name-call and lay blame. And while we are distracted by the food-fight, Obama is free to embrace, or capitulate to, the right-wing Israeli plan to collectively punish the Gazans and deprive them of basic necessities (link) until they submit or cease to exist.

  • grape_crush

    …the right-wing Israeli plan to collectively punish the Gazans and deprive them of basic necessities (link) until they submit or cease to exist.
    .
    Pretty much. Posted earlier:

    McClatchy obtained an Israeli government document that describes the blockade not as a security measure but as “economic warfare”…
    .
    …the government has long said that the aim of the blockade is to stem the flow of weapons to militants in Gaza…
    .
    …According to figures published by Gisha in coordination with the United Nations, Israel allows in 25 percent of the goods it had permitted into Gaza before the Hamas takeover. In the years prior to the closure, Israel allowed an average of 10,400 trucks to enter Gaza with goods each month. Israel now allows approximately 2,500 trucks a month.
    .
    The figures show that Israel also has limited the goods allowed to enter Gaza to 40 types of items, while before June 2007 approximately 4,000 types of goods were listed as entering Gaza.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/09/95621/israeli-document-gaza-blockade.html#ixzz0qSOTiCqD

  • sevenoaks07

    Daniel??? Thank you for seeing things from several points of view. Groenhagan 2 needs a fact checker.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Thank you Joe for responding to Kevin Goenhaggen.
    .
    As you know, he harassed me made threats against me here and I am pressing charges. Unfortunately since we are several states away I have to wait a few more weeks before the FBI, who said that it was a case they would take on (a Class A Misdemeanor with up to one year in jail, $25k in fines for the first charge and double that for the second charge) while they clear through their typical backup of internet complaints.
    .
    I am sure if you look back at the post you create “Disgraceful” he was, also, violating the wordpress agreement egregiously.
    .
    Nothing I have done has yet put him in his place, so, I am glad that you did.
    .
    Thank you.
    .
    And if you could have a word with wordpress about Groenhaggen’s behavior, that would be a great favor the next couple of weeks while I3.gov investigates (as in opens the file and reads the report I filled out) his harassment and threats.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Dan, the man!
    .
    Wow!
    .
    You sound far more open minded than before.
    .
    I guess you do believe that Palestinians, under the right government might, eventually, become excellent lawful and peaceful neighbors of Israel.
    .
    I am shocked that is you.
    .
    Happily shocked, that is.

  • maverick2k9

    Daniel, thanks for the rational and logical post. Shows you can be pro-Israel without being irrational.
    .
    Despite their “terrorist group” past, I think we have to judge Hamas by their current policy.
    .
    Despite great provocation from Israel, they haven’t fired a single rocket into Israel for the last several months. There haven’t been sucide attacks for years now, yet Groen and the neo-cons keep ranting about terrorist and sucide attacks.

  • rdw56

    Awaiting Joe Klein’s Apology [Michael Rubin]

    Joe Klein takes issue with my posting this morning. It seems Mr. Klein prefers to substitute invective and personal animus for fact — always a sign that someone has a weak command of the facts.

    He points out, for example, that the West Bank is under different administration from Gaza, which is true. And then he adds that it is in the West Bank “where this $400 million will be spent.” That is not true; the $400 million is meant for both the West Bank and Gaza, and some money in Gaza might be distributed by relief organizations, many of which are staffed by Hamas. Regardless, money is fungible, and Obama’s upping aid right now has the effect of subsidizing Hamas. Of course, Mr. Klein also ignores the millions we give to UNRWA to spend in Gaza, which frees Hamas of accountability of governance.

    As for the West Bank, can Mr. Klein respond to studies which find correlation between aid to the Palestinian Authority and terror? Or address the incitement which still reigns supreme in the West Bank and official Palestinian media?

    Joe Klein writes of me that I am “rather [like] rabid puppy…one of those people who looks at Palestinians and sees only terrorists.” Of course, Mr. Klein has never met me nor talked to me, so he knows not of which he speaks. He then adds that the sin is worse because of “the Muslim-tainted splashback on the President.” This is silly and malicious; I have a perfectly clear track record, and people are quite tired with attempts to stifle real policy debates by labeling opposing points racist or anti-Muslim. It doesn’t work outside very isolated circles. Joe Klein, you embarrass Time magazine and you owe me an apology.

  • rdw56

    The reason they are no suicide attacks is the dreaded fence. liberals have always despised the fence for robbing the terrorists of options. They feared, correctly, that if the Israeli’s were safe and prosperous behind the fence they would be less likely to make concessions. All too true. They are safe. They are very prosperous. They are not making concessions. Meanwhile the West Bank is growing at 8.5% while Gaza is a total welfare state. It’s almost like a replay of the USA vs the USSR with the end result clear to all. The more aid Gaza receives the more dependent they become. It’s a very nasty circle. The more the UN and fringe lefties support Gaza the more Americans support Israel. Gaza simply cannot win.

  • rdw56

    Well this is war isn’t it? Hamas was created and exists to destroy Israel. What do you expect?

    The best part here is Israel isn’t going to deliver the fatal blow to Hamas. Hamas will be destroyed by Fatah. At some point Hamas will ask for a beating and Israel will deliver. But rather than the IDF flowing into Gaza Fatah will do the honors. Were Israel to ask a Hamas member a rude question liberals would have their panties in a bunch. But if Fatah comes in and drags Hamas members into the street and pour gasoline on their heads and lite them on fire those same liberals will sit silently.

    Liberals talke about a two state solution as if there are two states. Joe Klein is a major supporter of the two state solution yet fully aware Fatah is at war with Hamas. It’s pretty obvious what Israel is doing. Klein is pretending Palestine is one state. Israel is working effectively with Fatah to make it so. Joe is also fully aware what is to come will be shockingly cruel and deprave and just as aware the MSM will not make it an issue.

    It’s got to be pretty bad to be a liberal and know in your heart for Gazans these are the good old days. They have free food and complete medical care. They are the ultimate welfare state utterly incapable of providing for themselves. UN largess only exacerbates their helplessness.

  • maverick2k9

    The reason they are no suicide attacks is the dreaded fence.
    .
    And the reason 9/11 never happened is? Ohh.. because our homeland is millions of miles away from the middle east and they can’t possibly come and attack us.
    .
    As if a stupid fence is ever going to stop a determined terrorist. It is this same neo-con stupidity that got us 9/11.

  • abdullah69

    I would have thought it was highly lacking in manners for a supporter of Israel to criticise how the US spends money overseas. Even if the motivation is to lose some defence R & D spend, or T & E and annuity planning for Pentagon lackeys, in the State Department budget.

    Rubin is like a small child desperate to wet himself. The immediate relief of demanding the money be accounted for down to the last cent is offset by the knowledge that Israel could never withstand the same scrutiny in regard to the billions of dollars it receives from the US. So Rubin sits there, crosses his legs, and wails loudly.

  • danielatlanta

    I haven’t changed my opinion. I still think that the Palestinian leadership, and many Palestinians, are latter-day Nazis. However, I support efforts to encourage the better influences in Palestinian society, such as economic development and the training and equipping of a capable police force, but only when these things are not used against Israel. I also support the security fence because it works. Suicide bombings inside Israel have dropped dramatically since it was installed. And, despite the current PR frenzy against the blockade, it seems to be working as well. Otherwise, Hamas and its allies, such as the Turks and western apologists, would not be trying so hard to remove it. The Palestinian terrorists and their allies always protest loudest about the things that prevent them from having their destructive way.

  • pintortwo

    I’ll assume that you are Mr. Rubin, as claimed bellow.
    .
    Thank you for confirming the accuracy of my comment and the McClatchy article.

  • michaelfury
  • grape_crush

    Hamas will be destroyed by Fatah…
    .
    Wishful thinking, followed by nonsense. Thank God you’re not in charge of anything but your own keyboard.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “…liberals have always despised the fence for robbing the terrorists of options.”
    .
    Once again, you are the fountain of misinformation.
    .
    The fence cut hundreds of feet into PRIVATE PROPERTY of Palestinians.
    .
    Israel came in and BULLDOZED DOWN PRIVATE HOMES to build this on PALESTINIAN SIDE of the fence.
    .
    How many time do I have to remind you of this?
    .
    How would you like it if Canada built a fence on US PRIVATE PROPERTY!
    .
    How would you feel about Canadians knocking down YOUR HOME in the UNITED STATES to build a wall?
    .
    So, stop inventing dumb things if at all possible WD40

  • danielatlanta

    Patrick, how do you feel about the dramatic decrease in attempted suicide bombings on Israeli private property since the wall was built on some Palestinian private property? Is that a good thing? And, if you don’t think that is a good thing, are you saying that the loss of a few Palestinian buildings is more important than preventing the loss of Israeli life? That latter result cannot be challenged with statistics, which show beyond any doubt that the loss of Israeli life from suicide bombings is down dramatically since the wall was constructed.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Patrick, how do you feel about the dramatic decrease in attempted suicide bombings on Israeli private property since the wall was built on some Palestinian private property?”
    .
    The Great Wall of China, which was a complete military failure (and, actually a combination of several different walls of several different fallen kingdoms united over the years) was not built deep into Mongolia.
    .
    The Berlin Wall, which was a complete military and political failure was not built by the East Germans deep into West Berlin’s land.
    .
    If this is the sole or even primary cause of the decreased suicide bombings – which must take into account that suicide bombings was costing Hamas and the Palestinian cause the hearts and minds of the world – it should have been built about two thousand feet away on Israeli land with eminent domain reimbursing Israeli citizens for their house or farm being chosen for destruction for their own national security.
    .
    Considering the history of strategic walls, I am not ready to call that the sole or even the primary cause of the decreased suicide bombings. Even if it were the sole cause, it would be just as effective/ineffective if it were built without the theft and destruction of private individuals homes and farms.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Well this is war isn’t it?”
    .
    If it is war, then Israel is guilty of war crimes under the fourth Geneva Convention Article 33 created specifically to ban governments from doing what Nazis did.
    .
    “Fourth Geneva Convention..August 1949..
    Collective punishments

    Article 33. No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
    Pillage is prohibited.
    Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.

    Under the 1949 Geneva Conventions collective punishments are a war crime. By collective punishment, the drafters of the Geneva Conventions had in mind the reprisal killings of World Wars I and World War II. In the First World War, Germans executed Belgian villagers in mass retribution for resistance activity. In World War II, Nazis carried out a form of collective punishment to suppress resistance. Entire villages or towns or districts were held responsible for any resistance activity that took place there. The conventions, to counter this, reiterated the principle of individual responsibility. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) Commentary to the conventions states that parties to a conflict often would resort to “intimidatory measures to terrorize the population” in hopes of preventing hostile acts, but such practices “strike at guilty and innocent alike. They are opposed to all principles based on humanity and justice.”

    Additional Protocol II of 1977 explicitly forbids collective punishment. But as fewer states have ratified this protocol than GCIV, GCIV Article 33. is the one more commonly quoted.”
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Collective_punishments
    .
    So, if I were you rdw56, I would NOT want to call this war if you want to defend Israel’s right wing government’s POV.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “That is not true; the $400 million is meant for both the West Bank and Gaza, and some money in Gaza might be distributed by relief organizations, many of which are staffed by Hamas. Regardless, money is fungible, and Obama’s upping aid right now has the effect of subsidizing Hamas.”
    .
    Fatah is the West Bank is, while, basically, at war with Hamas is not going to give them aid and the US only recognizes Fatah.
    .
    So, your statement is about as dumb as saying that when Kennedy (by today’s standard a raging communist) had given food and other aid via the Berlin Airlift to West Berlin that it might, secretly, be giving aid to East Berlin.
    .
    Please! If you are intelligent enough to turn on your computer you should be intelligent enough to know that Joe just isn’t going to waste his time answering such unreasonable questions.

  • danielatlanta

    patrick, despite all that verbage, you still haven’t answered the most important question, that being whether you think the dramatic decrease in the loss of Israeli lives on Israeli soil since the wall was constructed is a good thing? Do you?

  • danielatlanta

    patrick, what do you call kidnapping a soldier, hiding him from even the Red Cross or any other humanitarian group, and then using him as a bargaining chip for four years? Which parts of Hamas’ actions in regard to Shalit are in keeping with the Geneva Convention? Oh, that’s right, Hamas and the Palestinians are not signees of the Geneva Convention. In that case, that means that Hamas and its apologists have no moral foundation for invoking the Geneva Convention about anything Israel does. Perhaps you might want to lobby Hamas to abide by the Geneva Convention instead of debating the semantics of whether Hamas and Israel are at war.

  • rdw56

    Patrick, the blockade is legal.

  • rdw56

    Patrick, that’s nt my statement. It’s rubins reply. Gibbs has confirmed the money is going to Gaza as well as the WB.

  • rdw56

    Patrick, that’s not my statement. It’s rubins reply. Gibbs has confirmed the money is going to Gaza as well as the WB.

  • rdw56

    Maverick, The fence has been an incredible success. While it’s certainly true a dedicated terrorists supported by Iran or another muslim govt could get into Israel they’re hardly going to expend such assets on a simple mission to blow up a pizzeria. The fence also had other purposes among them economic benefits.

  • rdw56

    Patrick, the fence was built in response to a long series of suicide bombing. If the arabs didn’t want a fence I guess they should have stopped slaughtering littel jewish girls.

    You can throw this crap out and impress a liberal but sane people are more than fine with the fence and think is should have been built on Palestinian land. If you want to kill innocents you deserve it. That’s why Americans support Israel so completely. That’s why 9/11 was so stupid.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “…whether you think the dramatic decrease in the loss of Israeli lives on Israeli soil since the wall was constructed is a good thing?
    .
    I told you that I do not know if the wall was the cause of it.
    .
    So, “..whether you think the dramatic decrease in the loss of Israeli lives .. is a good thing?”
    .
    Fewer dead people is ALWAYS a good thing.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “…If the arabs didn’t want a fence I guess they should have stopped slaughtering littel jewish girls.”
    .
    And it Americans didn’t want to be attacked by terrorists we wouldn’t have supported oppressive regimes in Egypt, Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Jordan, Syria and Yemen.
    .
    Obviously you, personally, wanted to New York and Washington be attacked because if you didn’t you would have gotten together and protested the State Department for the 25 years of your adult life until our policies changed.
    .
    So, I am sure that when the buildings fell, you shrugged your shoulders and said, “Oh, well, this is what I wanted. That’s why I didn’t stop my government.”

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “patrick, what do you call kidnapping a soldier, hiding him from even the Red Cross or any other humanitarian group, and then using him as a bargaining chip for four years?”
    .
    Not as low as the Japanese were when they starved US POWs to death while making them do forced labor .
    .
    “In that case, that m.eans that Hamas and its apologists have no moral foundation for invoking the Geneva Convention about anything Israel does.”
    .
    No, it means that the Israeli right are trying to be as bad as Hamas.
    .
    Japanese POWs in WWII, when we could get them, were treated according to the Geneva Convention.

    “Perhaps you might want to lobby Hamas to abide by the Geneva Convention..”
    .
    I never advocated the recognition of Hamas at all. So, why would I possibly want to lobby them?
    .
    As a democracy, for me to have respect for Israel above the total lack of respect I have for Hamas, Israel must abide by the Geneva Convention. If they do not, I will. gradually, loose so much respect for Israel that I will consider it no better than Hamas. (Eventually).
    .
    If they abide by the Geneva Convention, I would respect Israel as much as I respect how amazing the US was during WWII.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    None of the money is going to Hamas.
    .
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/09/barack-obama-gaza-israel-aid
    .
    There is money set aside for construction when the blockade is lifted to go to NGOs, but, no money is designated for Hamas.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Both sides immediately claimed the protection of international law, with Israel citing legal justification for effectively extending its naval blockade into international waters where the flotilla was heading for Gaza. Yet for most Western governments, with the exception of the United States, the question is not so much the legality or illegality of Israel’s action. Rather, European countries from Germany to Britain are focusing on the broader legal context of Israel’s blockade of the Gaza Strip and the suffering of civilians there.”
    .
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2010/0608/Never-mind-the-Freedom-Flotilla.-Is-Israel-s-Gaza-blockade-legal
    .
    The legality of the blockade, due to the civilian goods on the list make it controversial.
    .
    BTW: It looks like you confused me with Abudullah69. I am not he and do not know anything about him since he rarely posts.

  • pintortwo

    ‘The German-Jewish organization Jewish Voice for Peace in the Middle East is preparing a Jewish flotilla to the Gaza Strip. “We intend to leave around July,” a member of the organization, Kate Leitrer, said to Ynet. “We have one small craft so far, in which there will be between 12 and 16 people, mostly Jews.”
    .
    Leitrer, herself Jewish, said there was great interest in joining. “Getting another boat means more expenses, and we’re discussing this possibility,” she said. “Because of limited space, there will be school equipment, candy, and mainly musical equipment, and there’ll be musicians aboard who’ll teach the children of Gaza. They need to see that Jews are not what how they are drawn in their eyes.”
    (…)
    “Jews have been to Gaza in the past, and they were treated in a friendly manner,” Leitrer continued. “We have also talked with them recently, and they are very keen for us to come. We are frightened by what happened on the Marmara, but if you are committed to do good things, you have to act. People were also killed in the fight against fascism.”
    (…)
    “Our vessel can open a window between Israel and Gaza residents,” she said. “Two years ago I took part in the Free Gaza flotilla and wore a Magen David (Star of David), and the kids said, ‘Look, she’s Jewish,’ and they all accepted me very well. When we met (Hamas leader) Ismail Haniyeh and they told him about me, he turned to me and said they have nothing against Jews or Israel, only against the occupation.” ‘
    .
    - http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3899915,00.html

  • pintortwo

    “The vast majority of Israelis and Palestinians are willing to live alongside each other peacefully in separate states, according to an independent poll…
    .
    Results of the poll… indicate that 74 percent of Palestinians and 78 percent of Israelis are willing to accept a two-state solution.”
    .
    - http://rhodonpublicaffairs.blogspot.com/2010/05/poll-most-palestinians-israelis-want.html

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