Obama on the Gulf Coast

Standing in the sun surrounded by state and local officials, President Obama sought to send a message of resolve to Gulf Coast residents and the American public.

“You will not be abandoned. You will not be left behind,” he said, clearly trying to draw a distinction between the BP oil spill and the federal response to Hurricane Katrina.

Reiterating what has already been done in response to the spill, the President was clearly on defense politically. He said 1,4000 national guardsman had already been deployed to the region and said manpower will be tripled in places where oil has already come ashore. He said, “There’s nobody here that can’t get in touch with me directly,” attempting to stave off accusations that the White House is out of touch or that bureaucratic red tape is hampering response efforts. The leak itself has not been definitively stopped, he said, adding that he understands “feelings of frustrations and anger” will continue until the oil stops flowing into the ocean.

In a nod to Gov. Bobby Jindal’s idea to protect Gulf shores with an artificial sand-made barrier island, Obama said every idea put forward was being considered on its merits. (A modified version of the idea is being tried, but there are concerns about its effectiveness and environmental impact.) The Gulf press conference started more than 90 minutes late, perhaps an indication that a meeting with local and state officials beforehand had gone on much longer than expected.

“Not every judgment we make is gonna be right the first time out,” the President said. “Sometimes there are going to be disagreements…There are gonna be a lot of judgment calls involved here….We’re considering every single idea out there.”

Obama also, to some degree, staked his reputation on the weeks and months ahead. Saying, “I ultimately take responsibility for solving this crisis. I’m the president and the buck stops with me,” he said it was his “solemn pledge” to make sure the residents and businesses of the affected region will be compensated for damages fairly and helped in the cleanup effort.

It’s tempting to judge situations like this on the daily ups and downs of politics, but real impact of the oil spill on Obama will only become clear in the weeks and months to come. If the spill is capped quickly, BP is made to pay the entire tab for cleanup and damages and new better regulations are put into place to prevent such a catastrophe in the future, the political damage could be minimized. But if the well continues to gush unabated, local and state officials lodge legitimate complaints about federal roadblocks or, even worse, there’s a whiff of federal abandonment before the region’s inhabitants are made whole again, Obama could suffer mightily.

Related Topics: bobby jindal, bp, hurricane katrina, obama, oil spill, Uncategorized
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  • deconstructiva

    Kate, minor spell check: 14,000, not 1,4000. I kidded in “1000 words” about your being at the presser by accident as you’re caught offguard while sunbathing, but seriously, are you down there in person (perhaps as part on long weekend trip)? And would you please write a post next week answering our good questions in your Politically Pertinent Questions (or do a video / The Call™ clip with teammates or an in-house interview sim. to KT’s HCR podcast with Deidre before leaving). We really can ask good q’s. for you (including national vs. regional fallout if the region is already R-heavy except Florida) and would like more thoughts from you. Thanks, Kate.

  • hellslittlestangel

    “Obama also, to some degree, staked his reputation on the weeks and months ahead.”

    Taking responsibility= gambling. Right. You’d never have caught Bush doing something so reckless.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Amazingly, the one thing that is missing from this story is the reason why so many are upset with government. We can debate all day about whether President Obama has shown sufficient emotions to satisfy the mob, but the truth is no amount of emoting will do the trick when what they want is to see the leak plugged.
    .
    The reality is that government can’t plug the leak and no one seems to be able to come to grips with the fact. We refuse to accept that this great nation is only a former shadow of itself. The right insists on living on a reputation that was forged 60 years ago while they systematically gut anything that would have allowed us to continue to invest in ourselves.
    .
    The truth is our government is ill prepared to perform at the level that remains firmly ensconced in our nostalgic imagination despite 40 years of the right’s systematic privatization of all government functions. Our chickens are simply coming home to roost and if anything the press ought to be writing how the conservative agenda has proven to be a complete and utter failure. All we have gotten out of their worship of the market is Haliburton taking over military functions that have electrocuted our soldiers, an inability to plug an oil leak, Blackwater contractors running amok all over the world and a financial system that is so unregulated that the legit guys can take down our economy and the crooks can take everything else.
    .
    If the one thing that comes out of this mess is that we finally learn to ignore the foolishness of starving government and blind allegiance to market forces at least that will be something,.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    even worse, there’s a whiff of federal abandonment before the region’s inhabitants are made whole again.
    .
    I know you are being sincere when you write that, but how does your calculation of the Obama’s political ‘price’ square with the Republican insistence that there’s no such thing as ‘emergency’ funding and that all approriation bills need to be accompanied by the text of how they are going to be paid for.
    .
    After all, aren’t federal defecits the greatest danger facing our Republic since the Coming Islamic Caliphate®?

  • virginiagentleman

    Kate, with all due respect, get a clue.

    “If the spill is capped quickly, BP is made to pay the entire tab for cleanup and damages and new better regulations are put into place to prevent such a catastrophe in the future, the political damage could be minimized.” That’s a joke, if that’s your standard.

    Obviously, it’s too late for the spill to be “capped quickly,” there is no chance BP would pick up the “entire tab for cleanup and damages” and there are no regulations that can “prevent such a catastrophe in the future,” unless you ban offshore drilling entirely. If you drill, you will eventually have a spill of some kind.

    Those are ridiculous standards to judge the impact of this.

    By the way, I did appreciate this section of your post:
    “In a nod to Gov. Bobby Jindal’s idea to protect Gulf shores with an artificial sand-made barrier island, Obama said every idea put forward was being considered on its merits. (A modified version of the idea is being tried, but there are concerns about its effectiveness and environmental impact.)”

    It would be nice to have seen this reported whenever someone claimed that the administration was not responding to local officials’ requests to build these barrier islands. Maybe they didn’t respond because those islands won’t work or would make things worse.

    Again, if the media would spend more time reporting and less time telling us what all of this will mean, that would be helpful.

  • merlanai

    “Again, if the media would spend more time reporting and less time telling us what all of this will mean, that would be helpful.”

    It seems to me that the focus of the swampland blog tends toward the editorial, making Kate’s piece appropriate. If you want strait reporting go to CNN or something.

  • nflfoghorn

    “…the focus of the [S]wampland blog tends toward the editorial…[i]f you want strai[gh]t reporting go to CNN …”
    .
    Most reporters analyze = draw conclusions based on the facts they collect/discover.
    .
    Posters editorialize. And Flox.

  • freeinpa

    Well if you follow the economic analysis by Jim McDermott (D-WA) that there is no deficit from economic stimulus. He recently reported “every unemployment dollar spent returns $1.64 of economic benefits”

    By that brilliant Keynesian gem, we should root for 100% unemployment. We could be the richest country in the world and no one would have to work

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Strait [sic?] = a narrow, navigable channel of water. Seems about right to me.
    .
    Today we have 4 posts on the Sleestak and 3 on the spill. Good work team! As yet, nothing on Palin or McCain. But I’m patient.

  • Ivy_B

    Please, please don’t forget us over this long week-end.

    It would be terrific if someone could put up a new post or two. It is that sort of thing that keeps the swamp going. If this is it for three days, it will only discourage people from checking back.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    the region’s inhabitants are made whole again

    Will this demand a laying-on of hands? Prayer? How exactly are they to be “made whole”?

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Already Saturday on my side of the world. Something for us to chew on–perhaps this awesome post by GG?
    .
    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/05/28/crazy/index.html

  • artraveler

    The shrimpers, oystermen/women, and resort people make their entire year in a 4-month period and BP should be forced to pay out equivalent to what they should have made. Kind of hard to estimate? Then start at $150,000 each and let’s see how fast they figure an accurate way.

  • chupkar

    Rick Sanchez on CNN was totally wigging out when I saw him today. That guy draws more (and worse) conclusions than just about anyone. Makes me nuts. Fraeaking out over stopping the mud occassionally. I’m no engineer, but I assume they have to make sure the pressure equalizes some or it will just cause problems somewhere else. Anyhow, I don’t think you can find a “news program” that actually *just reports* these days.

  • nflfoghorn

    Chupkar @ 5.4: What do you expect from a guy who’s been Tasered? ;)

  • square1

    Dee, while it is true that America is increasingly failing to invest in itself, that doesn’t seem to be applicable to the current situation.
    .
    Americans believe that there is a solution BECAUSE THEY WERE TOLD, INCLUDING BY OBAMA, THAT DRILLING WAS SAFE. People assumed — wrongly — that “safe” meant that there were contingency plans for accidents.
    .
    I’m getting a little sick of Obama’s defenders acting as if critics are expecting the impossible (“he doesn’t have a magic wand”). People don’t expect magic. They expect a plan. And if it is suddenly being revealed that Obama had no plan…well, lets just say that my sympathy level is rather low.

  • bobcn1

    “If … BP is made to pay the entire tab for cleanup”

    Kate,
    You’ve now written several posts where you try to assess the political impact of the BP disaster on Obama. Several times you’ve written that Obama will be judged by whether BP is held fully liable for the economic impact of the spill.

    You have yet to discuss the fact that republicans are currently blocking legislation to remove the liability caps that could allow BP to avoid paying for the damage they’ve caused. You seem to be implying that if the republicans succeed in preventing BP from being held liable, somehow Obama should be blamed.

    Do you intend to mention this important fact when discussing who pays for the disaster in the gulf? If not, why not?

  • virginiagentleman

    Fair point, merlanai, except most of the analysis appears to be coming from people who don’t have the necessary facts in front of them to do it or they’re ignoring those facts. I thought Kate’s post fell into that category.

  • apr2563

    Chukpar: Sanchez was freaking out yesterday on this same non-issue. He had an expert on who explained the need to do this to equalize pressure. Of course, he has his faux outrage going and is still going to promote it.
    For days Chris Matthews has been yelling about sending down submarines and bringing in super tankers to skim off the oil. He too had experts on who explained why his ideas were not feasible. Yet he still is promoting them.
    These morons get a reaction from their hysteria that feeds their egos and they just keep repeating their witless memes.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    John Atcheson:

    “Just weeks before [the BP oil disaster] occurred, in a classic triangulation, Obama announced that he supported off-shore drilling. Because he failed to take a stand then, he couldn’t avoid taking some of the blame for the spill. Had he made Republican deregulation an issue and opposed offshore drilling rather than cratering to the drill-baby-drill crazies – had he stood on principle – he wouldn’t be in a defensive position, trying to pass off blame and criticism to BP. Rather he would have made deregulation the issue, and he’d be leading a popular charge against a broken regulatory system and a failed political philosophy, putting conservatives in a defensive position.

    That’s right, because of political cowardice and a too-clever-by-a-half strategy, the Obama administration is fending off blame for something Republicans, conservatives, and the drill-baby-drill crowd fought to put in place.

    And this is just one example of a dynamic that has dominated politics since Reagan.

    You can’t confront Wall Street when you’ve set up Goldman Sachs South in the US Treasury and the White House, stocking it with the very folks who created the problem.

    You can’t confront Health Care crazies when you’ve made back room deals with big Pharma, and preemptively ceded the victory to private industry.

    You can’t confront the collapse of the educational system, if you’ve advocated tax cuts. Look at California, which was at the vanguard of the tax cutting frenzy. Their educational system went from number 1 in the country when Reagan took over to number 47, now.

    You can’t get out of illegitimate and ill-advised wars when you’ve given them legitimacy. Come on. Does anyone really believe the US has a strategic stake in Afghanistan? And even if you did, does anyone believe that occupying the hapless country with conventional military forces is the way to deal with it? Let’s face it, we doubled down on this war because Democrats thought it would be the best way to inoculate themselves against the dreaded “soft on defense” epithet.

    In fact, Democrats have been so ready to run from name calling it’s as if they’re wearing track shoes and poised in starting blocks, the better to sprint from their convictions at the first whiff of a meanie.

    They’ve been so eager for power, that they stopped thinking about why the want it – it became an end, not a means.

    If we’d been willing to stand on principle for the last three decades, we might have lost a few elections, but at least the debate would be framed, the battle lines clear.

    And when the inevitable failures from the conservative hypocrisy came, Tea-partiers might have been pouring into the streets demanding that the rich pay their fair share of taxes and the corporations quit exploiting humanity and the planet so that a few CEOs might buy an extra 25,000 square foot vacation home in Barbados. Indeed, they might even be demanding that government fulfill its role as guarantor of a civil society.”

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/05/27-4

  • diecash1

    People don’t expect magic. They expect a plan. And if it is suddenly being revealed that Obama had no plan

    Are you proposing that Obama should have had a plan to combat such an event as the current disaster in the gulf?
    ..
    If so, in what way is that at all reasonable? BP and TransOcean are the experts at this, not the WH. It would be reasonable to expect the BP to have a contingency plan for this and for the government to require one but what you are proposing seems a bit ludicrous

  • gysgt213

    Am I the only one that is starting to get the idea that Katie feels she can blog whatever she wants and then does not have to respond in anyway to comments. No matter if they are disagreeing with what she wrote, asking her a question or just plain attacking her. Its almost as if she can push her thoughts down to her.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    While I don’t share certain commenters’ rapturous praise for MSM journo-bloggers doing, like, their f’ing job and engaging with the rabble. i.e. Here’s a nice little pat on the head, now move aside while I shovel another truckload of CW-seasoned turkey manure over the landscape. That said, Kate should send a Xmas card to bible thumping Amy Sullivan–compared to that human vacuum of bloggosity, Kate is highly interactive.

  • http://funks2.wordpress.com Michael Funk

    Is the oil spill mess . . .

    Government’s problem?

    Bp’s problem?

    Government’s and BP’s problem?

    Or is there any difference?

    May I recommend an article entitled, “BP – Too Big To Fire.” at:

    http://funks2.wordpress.com/2010/05/28/______________…fire__________/

  • http://funks2.wordpress.com Michael Funk
  • kevin

    Mock it all you want, but his statement about the economic returns on unemployment payment is completely true.
    .
    Here’s economist Mark Zandi of Moody’s making the exact same point:
    .

    Tracking that single dollar spent through the economic chain shows what economists call the ripple effect, Zandi said. For example, that dollar spent at the grocery store in turn helps to pay the salaries of the grocery clerks, pays the truckers who haul the food and produce cross-country, and finally goes to the farmer who grows the crops.
    .
    The report pointed to expanding unemployment benefits as the program that gets the next biggest bang for the buck. That’s because, although the unemployed are already getting checks, they need to spend the money. For every dollar spent here, the economy would see a return of $1.64, Zandi said.

    .
    http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/29/news/economy/stimulus_analysis/index.htm

  • vwcat

    I so agree with every word you wrote. Add my voice to your excellent post.

  • nibblybits

    I disagree with that quote, almost entirely.

  • vwcat

    seems all the pundits in the village are having a ball posturing in front of the camera with their faux outrage.
    So much so that MSNBC is impossible to watch these days.
    I’d take the silly Sanchez, however, over that phoney populist fools who loves posturing – dylan ratagan.
    what a real phoney.
    I find it a huge problem for the country that all we have now is opinion by the ill informed and those who are inside the DC bubble with their conventional wisdom and no true reporters or real news.
    As a kid I understood the Vietnam war from watching the fact filled Cronkite.
    Today, the public is so woefully informed and filled with nonsense and little facts because they cannot get it. All they can get is opinion

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Being “made whole” sounds terribly Biblical. You know, lepers being healed and all that jazz. Couldn’t she just have said “compensated for their losses”?

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    I agree with much of the quote, especially the opening paragraph. The last paragraph, sadly, strikes me as deluded fantasy. I also think that the problem with education isn’t just one of money. We need a much longer, more profound debate on what we want from education. Without that debate, reform schemes will come and go, and money will vanish into education like water into sand.

  • stuartzechman

    She responds, gunny, usually with followup information, quotes or links.
    .
    Kate’s decent, she’s not like that fatuous pile of wind Amy Sullivan.

  • stuartzechman

    This analysis is wildly off the mark, JC.
    .
    Obama did take a stand for what he believes in. In the Village, the most courageous, noble, intelligent and right for the country thing that a Democrat –and a Republican, more and more– can do is defy the base of his party, remember? If liberals yell “Wait, you’re wrong!,” then it’s brave truth-telling by definition.
    .
    The real world problems that we are experiencing are because he and the rest of the Democratic leadership believe in erroneous policy prescriptions and political calculations that are predictably wrong, but we’re the only ones who know that…just like Iraq, just like health care, just like financial deregulation, just like the bank bailouts ten years later, and now just like Drill-Baby-Drill-lite.
    .
    This isn’t Obama failing to take a stand. The whole problem with thinking of triangulation this way is that the assumption is the savvy one –that it’s all politics. That’s not the case, because they truly do believe in triangulation as a means to the correct policy and politics.
    .
    These people think they are taking a principled stand against “both right and left.” You know the drill (as it were), Obama will get up again and say something like this:

    Some on the right think that we should go ahead in pursuit of our nation’s immediate interests without concern for the environment our children will inherit someday. Some on the left fail to understand the economic consequences of doing nothing to get us closer to independence from foreign oil sources.
    .
    Well, as tough as this pragmatic course may be politically, I am prepared to enact a plan that puts on an achievable course toward a sustainable energy future. It’s not the liberal offshore drilling plan nor the conservative offshore drilling plan, but the best offshore drilling plan for America, because it’s the right thing to do.
    .
    I will be criticized, no doubt, from both the right and the left, but this is the kind of principled stand Americans expect from their leadership, and the kind of practical solutions they want from their government. So we will go forward with a moderate, sensible plan that can achieve realistic goals for the future, while taking steps to alleviate our immediate energy concerns today.

    It’s triangulation, sure, but he means it. It’s not political cowardice, although it is too clever by half. They don’t think they’re being cowards, they think that they’re displaying the height of integrity. In the Village, where Joe Lieberman is considered the last honest man in Washington because he has the guts to stand up to those dirty f*cking hippies that constitute the base of the Democratic party, it makes sense that this is seen as bravery.
    .
    They’re not prosecuting the wars out of cowardice, they’re not conspiring with financial elites out of cowardice, they’re not prosecuting whistleblowers out of cowardice, they’re not doubling down on secrecy out of cowardice, they’re not gutting due process out of cowardice, they’re not making deals with PhRMA out of cowardice and they’re definitely not renting the Gulf of Mexico to British Petroleum like it’s a karaoke room because they’re cowards, JC.
    .
    If we keep thinking of this phenomenon like they’re just too X to do what they know is right, we’re making a very stupid error in judgment. We’re assuming that they’re like us, and they’re not. We would enact the policies we know are right, if only we could get over our fears. We would go for broke on our agenda, if only we were more confident of our political chances. We are the ones who are frightened to death of the Republicans –look at how crazed Palin or Rand Paul or the Tea Partiers make us when they’re waved in front of our faces by Democrats on MSNBC! It’s us! We are the ones who are most afraid of losing, not the Democratic establishment. That’s why we rolled over on health care, and why the Administration knew we would.
    .
    They are doing what they think they should do, both in policy and political terms. They are wrong and f*cking things up in a predictable way, but that’s because the philosophy they believe in doesn’t correspond to reality, just like the libertarians’ or Phil Gramm’s or Richard Perle’s or Dick Cheney’s ideologies don’t make a damn bit of sense in the real world.
    .
    We have got to stop thinking that they’re like us, JC.
    .
    The smartest people among us (link to a shocked digby) are writing this kind of stuff:

    I am honestly gobsmacked that this government has decided that pretending to care about the deficit on the backs of the unemployed is good politics or good policy at a time of 10% unemployment. It’s mind boggling.

    No, it’s not mind-boggling, unless you think that they’re more like you than they actually are.
    .
    Obama is never going to take a stand for what we know to be the right course for our country, not because he doesn’t have enough courage or smarts, but because that’s not what he believes is the right course for our country.
    .
    That’s not what New Democrats have ever believed.
    .
    When he says:

    If we’d been willing to stand on principle for the last three decades, we might have lost a few elections, but at least the debate would be framed, the battle lines clear.

    , he’s making a fundamental error. We were willing to stand on principle for the last three decades, except when it came to electing Democrats who believed what we knew to be true about how the economy should function, and what America’s role in the world should be, and how to get from problems to solutions.
    .
    The trouble with those Democrats we elected is that they were willing to stand on principle, too –the principle that the left didn’t know what we were talking about, and should be shut out of serious policy discussion while the center figured out what the “best ideas of conservatives and liberals” were, so they could formulate an agenda and sell it to the American people occasionally.
    .
    If we don’t manage to see that their principles are not ours, if we refuse to understand that they don’t think like us, then we’ll never be able to get their boots off our our necks, JC, and they’ll keep being ineffective at solving our country’s very real problems.
    .
    I know if feels good to scorn them for not being as brave and principled as us awesomely smart people out here, but it’s just not the whole story, and we’re just going to feel like sh*t anyway, so let’s maybe try thinking about this in a new way, OK, JC?

  • tharwatfawzi

    All in the world are angry and frustrated with this unprecedented ecological disaster , pray for the heroes lost , for all other heroes victimized in this disaster and in the efforts to stop the spill – and for all the men and women whose livelihoods have been disrupted and even destroyed by this disaster , offer sincere condolences to the relatives of the heroes lost and to all American people, and pray for the success of the continued horrific efforts to stop the spill . The timing of this horrific disaster is suspicious , coming just three weeks after President Obama announced an expansion of offshore development , and necessitates a thorough criminal investigation from President Obama to insure that all criminals responsible are held fully accountable on behalf of the United States as well as the people and communities victimized by this tragedy.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    SZ,
    .
    Of course we agree. When have I defended Obama as a liberal recently? My halcyon Oregon days, all hopey in the raindrops, are long since past. Please note that I didn’t preface the comment with a British “This is brilliant!”
    .
    Atcheson should have said:
    .
    “[If you were a liberal] you [could effectively] confront Wall Street [because you never would have dreamed of] setting up Goldman Sachs South in the US Treasury and the White House, stocking it with the very folks who created the problem.”
    .
    or this:
    .
    “[A liberal could] get out of illegitimate and ill-advised wars [because they'd never] give them legitimacy [in the first f@cking place”
    .
    Knowing Obama ain’t no liberal, I merely filter such pieces as I read them. From a strategic pt. of view, I see what you mean–giving them greater currency, at least without framing/interpretation.

  • nibblybits

    Why would Kate or Amy or anyone want to engage commenters who so easily resort to namecalling and insults?

  • newfreedomblog

    “We refuse to accept that this great nation is only a former shadow of itself….
    Our chickens are simply coming home to roost and if anything the press ought to be writing how the conservative agenda has proven to be a complete and utter failure.”

    .
    Go jump in a lake, Dee. You, like your idol, the First Lady (which gags me to even think of her in such of a role in our great country) should simply leave the United States, take Jeremiah Wright with you and go see Hugo Chavez. Maybe he can give you both a cushy socialist job.
    .
    DISGUSTING unpatriotic scum.

  • newfreedomblog

    THE “victim” of these entire thing in the mind of liberals is Barack Obama himself. He surely plays the role of the victim very well, unfortunately for the rest of us.
    .
    Accountability is assurance of a job well or not well done. Still 35+ days into all of this and what has he accopmlished to date? A press conference 34 days into this massive environmental disaster. Too little, too late and the outcome is “poor little me, what can I do but be attacked by all those bad bad Republicans”.
    .
    Go to Chicago this weekend Mr lame President, play a round or two of golf maybe that will help.

  • diecash1

    DISGUSTING unpatriotic scum.

    Yes you are rustyblogwhore with your contempt for our Constitution and the rule of law. You are a faux patriot if there ever was one.

  • Ivy_B

    Excellent article by Greenwald, jc.
    .
    During the very early primaries before Bush was elected there was a web site that listed policy positions (taken from written statements) on a scale and one was supposed to indicate degree of agreement for each position without knowing which candidate espoused it. There were a lot, perhaps 20 or 25, so guessing was ruled out. I was very surprised to discover the closest match for me was Al Sharpton first, then Dennis Kucinich, then Kerry.
    .
    I agree with Greenwald. Our politicians are marginalized by what statements are picked up and publicized. It is difficult to find out the truth behind the soundbite and the mocking of candidates leaves us poorer. Who can forget the endless hours of coverage devoted to the Dean Scream? That effectively got him out of contention.

  • 53_3

    “You, like your idol, the First Lady (which gags me to even think of her in such of a role in our great country) should simply leave the United States…”
    .
    Rusty:
    .
    We all know about your worldview.
    .
    Keep in mind that 1,000,000 Americans of all kinds died to prevent a similar worldview from dominating the world during WWII.
    .
    May I venture that it is your type of thinking that is a hideous parody of their sacrifice.

  • 3xfire3

    Stuart,
    .
    Interesting post. It gives me some additional insight of your view on liberals and centralist and how they differ.
    .
    Perception is not necessarily reality but what we as individuals personally believe is reality. Conservatives perception of the left is you come in two flavors. Liberal and Ultra-Liberal. We perceive little difference between the two. Conservatives believe all of the left are really Socialist who want to make our country into either a pure Socialist country or a Western Europe type democratic socialist country.
    .
    Conservatives see the Left as wanting big government to control everything and to reduce our individual freedoms. Most Conservatives are very patriotic Americans that believe the Left wants to diminish our country.
    .
    I believe I am a moderate Conservative. I’m sure that most liberals who post here believe I am a far right Conservative. I am not but that is their perception of reality.
    .
    About once every 2 weeks a very smart conservative finds this site and tries to engage the Liberals who post here. He or she will comment for a couple of days. Most of the Liberals who post here will attack them, pile on, and make it quite obvious that their views are not welcome here. Most then stop wasting their time here and don’t bother to post here anymore. The Liberals who have driven them away celebrate and give each other high fives in that they have gotten rid of another of those evil Conservatives and have keep this site pure for the Liberal commenters.
    .
    This unwillness to engage Conservatives does not help the Liberal cause. It simply perception to many that you are a bunch of radical leftist who want nothing to do with a majority of your fellow American citizens. This I believe is why so many see you as elitist. I believe it would help the Liberals cause if they engaged the conservatives is a less attack like method and tried to find some common grounds.
    .
    Ultimately we should all be working for the betterment of our country and our citizens.

  • 53_3

    “Go to Chicago this weekend Mr lame President, play a round or two of golf maybe that will help.”
    .
    “Watch this drive!”

  • allthingsinaname

    Lets see now, we have 25% of the voters on the far right, another 25% of the voters on the far left. These two camps are here arguing about who should have control. Talking about principle and, things of such. What I here is that 25% of you want to control 75% of us. Now that is principle!
    .
    You maybe correct, and you maybe wrong, you maybe angry, or not, but to be pissed off because they do not listen to YOU is arrogance. There something short of 75% of the people who may disagree, and from the polls it would appear that they are upset too. Why, cuz the far right and the far left will not allow anything to be done.
    .
    Good Grief folks this is a representative democracy, you can’t just dominate. You have to nudge things along, make your case, and sell it to the public.

  • megatronrises

    @3xfire3:
    .
    That was very well reasoned. However, I have to disagree with your conclusions. Though this site is assuredly dominated by the those left of center (some obviously farther than others), most of the conservatives that regularly post here are mere antagonists.
    .
    Off the top of my head, posters like ricardo4max, earljr, groenhagen, and textee all simply antagonize the liberal posters. Please don’t mistake this as my perceiving them as antagonizing people – they very simply are here to antagonize people. These posters generalize, proclaiming that liberals as a group are out of touch with reality and live in a fantasy world – in addition to far more unsavory insults.
    .
    Then there’s another class of conservative poster – in which you fall in with Rusty & freeinpa. You guys occasionally have insightful things to say (most liberal posters will be shocked by this statement). You (3xfire3) are generally the least inflammatory of the three of you, but you are also the most likely to draw from anecdotal experiences to say that liberals don’t know anything, say, about how a small business generates jobs.
    .
    Please understand that this can be frustrating mostly because you tend to not quote studies or figures, even from conservative sites, but rather just state as fact that you know better. Now this doesn’t happen all the time, but when it does it discredits the experience you do have and that we can learn from. There are some very highly qualified liberal commenters on this blog, many who cite solid facts and studies through which to bear their arguments out. I wish an intelligent guy like you would hold yourself to those sorts of standards when debating, and not those held by freeinpa or Rusty on a bad day.
    .
    There are a few conservative commenters who we can count on having a truly intelligible argument with – Exiled At Home. He has a grasp of facts and is engaging in his critiques of the left. If the conservative commentators you claim come here every couple week were like him, I think we’d have more constructive conservative commenters on this blog.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Yeah that’s right, beat the ole dead horse some more. But your guy is supposed to be so much better, and different. Huh? Since he’s already played more golf in a year and a half than W did in 8 years, what does that say for him?
    .
    Come on -53, give us some FACTS, some SUBSTANCE, run us into some walls, toot your own horn some more, since that’s what you do best. Maybe a warm rock on a windowsill metphor. Something with some spittle and froth etc. etc…..

  • Art Pepper

    Documents Show Earlier Worries About Safety of Rig

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/30/us/30rig.html

    Internal documents from BP show that there were serious problems and safety concerns with the Deepwater Horizon rig far earlier than those the company described to Congress last week.

    The documents show that in March, after several weeks of problems on the rig, BP was struggling with a loss of “well control.” And as far back as 11 months ago, the company was concerned about the well casing and the blowout preventer.

  • apr2563

    vcat: There were reports from Vietnam everyday. Reporters were committed to telling the whole store. Unlike today where they flit in and out of a story only to take advantage of its sensationalism. I don’t neccessarily blame all the shallow reporting on the reporters. They are assigned by editors and producers. However, they should spend more time reporting the context (eg: shoring up barrier reefs).

  • apr2563

    correction: barrier islands

  • apr2563

    Jon Stewart’s favorite video. He plays Sanchez being tasered any chance he gets. I tried to find the video on You Tube. No luck.

  • diecash1
  • apr2563

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/27/bush-war-boosts-the-us-ec_n_592444.html
    ,
    If we only knew. George W waged war to improve the economy. Better than the Marshall Plan. That explains everything.

  • apr2563

    Thanks diecash. I never get tired of the video.

  • ohiolibb

    Go back to hoping for the death of politicians, rustyblog. You sound marginally less deranged.

  • diecash1

    Well 2/3s, rustyblogwhore wanted to beat that dead horse with his golf reference.
    ..
    Since you asked for facts, here they are:

    A comment in Friday’s Opinion Line accurately noted that “George Bush spent 1,020 days, more than one-third of his presidency, on vacation” — though a president is never really “on vacation.” CBS News White House correspondent Mark Knoller, who famously tracks such things, broke down the numbers this way: 490 days at Bush’s Texas ranch, 487 days at Camp David and 43 days in Kennebunkport, Maine. Other interesting tallies of the Bush 43 era: He attended 338 political fundraisers and 12 baseball games, delivered 23 commencement speeches, played 24 rounds of golf (giving it up six months into the Iraq war out of respect to families of fallen troops), hosted six state dinners, cast 12 vetoes, visited 75 foreign countries and flew 1.4 million miles on Air Force One. One thing Bush never did as president? Visit Vermont.

    ..
    http://blogs.kansas.com/weblog/2009/03/bush-by-the-numbers/
    ..

    President Obama has spent all or part of 26 days “on vacation” during his first year as president, according to CBS News White House Correspondent Mark Knoller.

    ..
    President George W. Bush spent all or part of 69 days on vacation during his first year.
    ..
    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/president-obamas-vacation-days/
    ..
    Maybe you knuckleheads can find another dead horse to beat.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    True, a president is never really on vacation. Especially when there’s an ongoing campaign to run, another country that needs to be apologized to, basketball teams to entertain, failed olympic bids, stumping for doomed lefty incumbents etc. etc…..
    .
    Hardly leaves time to actually do your job as prez, but then that never was the reason he took the job in the first place. All this responsibility is getting in the way of the percs and the power and the fun.

  • stuartzechman

    3xfire3:
    .
    Thanks so much for taking the time to read and get a grasp on what liberals think, it’s a mark of good citizenship. I wish some “progressive” liberals would apply themselves as diligently, sometimes.
    .
    I wish I had more time today to respond in a way that your commentary deserves, but I am a bit over-scheduled, so unfortunately I cannot.
    .
    Let me just say that I think that it’s the duty of liberals committed to a democratic, pluralist society to make the effort to truly understand conservatism and conservatives (as well as libertarians, Objectivists and other right-oriented movements and ideologies), and that engagement requires listening in good faith to that which one vehemently disagrees. It doesn’t mean I won’t stand strong against you, 3xfire3, but it does mean that, when it comes to what you believe or don’t believe, I have more of a shot at knowing what I’m talking about. It also means that I can be fair and accurate in my criticism, which I think should be important to people (liberals) who call themselves “the reality-based community.” Both of us might learn something, in other words, even if we’re implacably opposed to each others’ vision of America.
    .
    It’s very American to have open, passionate political disagreement, and we should never forget how lucky we are to live in a country where this kind of debate is permitted, nor what it takes to protect our freedom to disagree. Amongst all of our wide disagreements, we can surely agree on that, I believe.
    .
    Above all, you should know that liberals like me will be the first to come to the aid of you, our fellow citizen, in a time of need or crisis, because we believe in a sort of duty toward other Americans. Sometimes we get called bleeding hearts because of our strong belief in that duty, but at least you know that us liberals will be there when a hurricane comes and knocks your house down.
    .
    I would like to address your comments regarding conservative perception of the center and left at some future point today or tonight, if I can manage it.
    .
    Thanks again for reading this commentary with an open mind, 3xfire3, much appreciated.

  • diecash1

    Hardly leaves time to actually do your job as prez, but then that never was the reason he took the job in the first place. All this responsibility is getting in the way of the percs and the power and the fun.

    Who knew you felt the same way about W that I did!

  • apr2563

    Now that BP has admitted the mud fill is not working and they will have to try something else, will the government, federal and state, and the press investigate how much is BP lying and playing a stalling game.
    .
    The other day I posted a couple of diarys from a fellow designating himself as fishgrease. He is a booming pro and knows his stuff. He sometimes expresses his anger with profanity.
    .
    Here is a diary from yesterday explaining how BP knew the top capping would not work.
    .
    fishgrease.dailykos.com/ork:

  • apr2563
  • kevin

    Rusty, since you’re the one who hates all Obama supporters — and remember, 56% of the country voted for him — perhaps it’d be easier if you left.
    .
    Go to a libertarian paradise like Somalia. Or since you hate so many Americans, I’m sure you’d love to join up with Al Qaeda.

  • kevin

    Conservatives believe all of the left are really Socialist who want to make our country into either a pure Socialist country or a Western Europe type democratic socialist country.
    .
    Seriously?
    .
    You might have a better grasp of what liberals actually believe if you listened to them directly. What you describe sounds like what Rush, Beck, etc. tell their audiences liberals believe — and it doesn’t even remotely sound like what this liberal believes.
    .
    I regularly read conservatives sites (NRO, RedState, RCP, etc.) because I know that liberal sites often cherry-pick quotes from conservatives that are the most ludicrous. If you’d like to do the same, I’d recommend Talkingpointsmemo.com and Washingtonmonthly.com for starters. Or check out DailyKos — you’ll be surprised to see that all the things you think you know about people there aren’t necessarily so.

  • Art Pepper

    Thank god the GOP is here to make sure BP’s liability remains capped, so that tax payers will be left holding the bill.

  • 3xfire3

    Kevin,
    .
    Yes seriously. That’s how most Republicans and Conservatives see Liberals.
    .
    Open your mind and let the sunshine of reality as perceived by Conservatives come in.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Whoa, back from a morning hike to find out Dennis Hopper just died. RIP

    Here’s Ebert

  • stuartzechman

    Jesus, I’m shocked.
    .
    I can’t believe Blue Velvet was so long ago.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Of course, when I hear DH’s name, above all others, one indelible scene springs vividly to mind–an oxygen-mask and the divine lines: “Baby wants blue velvet! Baby wants to f@ck!” Just thought the ER clip was more suitable to the day.
    .
    At 16 years old, I wasn’t ready for Lynch. For Isabella Rossellini, maybe but…

  • apr2563

    sz: Your shocked? I can’t believe I’ve been around almost as long as Hopper. Starting with Blackboard Jungle, Rebel, and through some really bad a$$ movies, Hopper and others helped change my generation. LIttle Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis and others led to the Beatles and the Stones. We went from the Silent Generation to the Delinquent Generation. Now there was cultural change you could love.
    A movie few think of as a Hopper movie is Giant. Of course it had Rock Hudson, Liz Taylor, and Jim Dean. But Hopper’s role was a big statement about marriage with a latina and tolerance. He did a great job. At 14, it made an impression on me.

  • gysgt213

    Serveral things should be obivious at this point. BP has been lying all along about the size, scope and severity of this spill. That should come as no surprise. It is in BP’s best interest to low ball any estimates of how much oil is coming out of this well or any other spill they may be responsible for.
    .

  • kevin

    So the “reality” of liberalism isn’t what liberals actually believe, it’s what conservatives perceive liberals to believe?
    .
    Alright, I tried. You’re beyond reasoning with.

  • sacredh

    This has been an interesting subset to the thread topic. I think most of us do have an incorrect view about how the other side thinks and regards the issues. I haven’t posted much the last few days because I’ve been fighting a sore throat and a monster cold. My wife had unexpected minor dental surgery Friday and hasn’t been up to snuff either. We had to cancel our Memorial Day cookout because neither of us was feeling up to it. It’s going to rain here tomorrow and a friend had his cookout last night. I got a call yesterday afternoon from him and he invited my wife and I over to help celebrate.
    .
    I declined and told him what was going on. He said that if we changed our minds to drop over. I told my wife and she said she wasn’t up to it but for me to go over for a few hours because she wanted to read and take a nap. I finally did decide to go over and I wish I hadn’t. It was a mess. Most of the people were real right wingers and no one else was anywhere close to as liberal as I am. The socialist and kool-aid drinker comments started almost as soon as I got out of my truck. The comments weren’t made in jest. They were p!ssed. What I consider moderates (and the right considers leftist) were going at it tooth and nail.
    .
    I said at least a dozen times that I wasn’t going to discuss politics and that I just wanted to have a good time. There were almost 30 people there and I knew all but 4-5 of them. The host and his wife were miserable. We couldn’t change the conversation and it wasn’t fun at all. They said it had been like that for over an hour before I got there. There was less than a dozen of us that were trying to enjoy the cookout. After about 45 minutes I told them I was going to leave. I went over and told some of the guys that they should be ashamed of themselves for ruining the cookout. I said that we had been friends for years and that the next time we spoke that if there wasn’t an apology to not bother even calling me again.
    .
    I went back over and told the hosts that I hoped things picked up after I left. I got a call about 10:30 and his wife told me that her husband had asked several of them to leave right after I left. It doesn’t surprise me anymore that the tone of the conversation is so poisonous. If friends can’t take the time or effort to be civil, what hope is there for strangers to get along? Honestly, I really don’t care one way or another if I get any calls.

  • 3xfire3

    Allthings,
    .
    “Good Grief folks this is a representative democracy, you can’t just dominate. You have to nudge things along, make your case, and sell it to the public.”

    Nudge is another word used for the concept that
    “You can chane the world as long as you do it gradually”.
    .
    Made famous by Cap Sunstien, Obama’s Regulatory Czar. It is really the method Sunstien and other members of the Left believe is a way to move the country in the direction to fit their views of what our country should be like.
    .
    It is a dishonest concept in that it is a method to change the country without people fully realizing the changes that have been made.
    .
    You said we have a representative Democracy and you should make your case and sell it to the public.
    .
    Sunstien’s idea of “nudging” is not selling it to the public but making changes in a stealth way without the public realizing the changes have been made. This is dishonest.

  • allthingsinaname

    3xfire3
    .
    Dishonesty is your reply, not my statement.
    .
    What you say is that you want a revolution then. all your talk about Liberals and conservatives not listening to each other, Blah, Blah Blah, is just that.
    .
    Yes I would like to move the country along in the direction that fits my views, much as you would like to. But what I propose to do it with the political process; that is through discourse, public debate, and voting in a democratic process, all along recognizing that I can not get all that I want want. Anything wrong with that? Or am I being dishonest because you do not like how the process is going for you, or that may mean that you have bend some?
    .
    Selling to the public is nudging, nothing moves without public opinion, it is the political process, like it or not, the public might move left or it might move right on any given issue.
    .
    I do not know what you propose as an alternative, I am sure you do not either.
    .
    I really do not believe your comment. All I can do is shake my head in disbelief, throw up my arms, and let you ride off to wherever you want to go.

  • shepherdwong

    “The real world problems that we are experiencing are because he and the rest of the Democratic leadership believe in erroneous policy prescriptions and political calculations that are predictably wrong, but we’re the only ones who know that…”
    .
    There’s a better explanation than only liberals/progressives having the smarts to understand policy:

    Neither party nor its loyalists are really willing to undermine the prevailing political system because that’s the source of their power.
    .
    – Glenn Greenwald

    It also applies to the media and just about any social organization that requires the sacrifice of principle as a price of membership, especially if great personal rewards accrue for belonging. It’s self-serving rationalization and only makes you look stupid to the those outside the social group sharing the same self-deception.

  • 53_3

    2/3rds:
    .
    You’re offended?
    .
    Hmm. I posted a video that went viral on the very subject that you tried to tar Obama with.
    .
    Videos have this magical ability to convey truth beyond what is written. Keep in mind, this is a situation which is just like Katrina, and as I said, this will never become “Obama’s katrina”.
    .
    Why?
    .
    Because of things like this:
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0916-01.htm

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Excellent point Shep.
    .
    It’s hard to blame the politicians who, after all, go into this business to procure everlasting power. Plus all the juicy tail. The fact that party affiliation continues to evaporate is a good sign–it seems inevitable that a sufficient number of such voters (if they continue to vote) will favor the creation of a 3rd or 4th party eventually. Thus far, however, we have a fractured liberal base (dem party members or nay) more than willing to self-confine. And our counters on the right seem equally inclined to enter their respective pen. As yet, the most promising movements have willingly sublimated principle for membership.
    .
    The only promise IMHO is if enough people can free themselves from “social group[s] sharing the same self-deception.” As long as we operate within a fundamentally undemocratic and corrupt system, there is no room for optimism. Whatever gains Obama makes will be reversed when the next GOP standard bearer takes power. And the notion that a more liberal dem (a Dean figure if you like) will be allowed by the gatekeepers is ludicrous. All our energy within the system merely reinforces its worst offenses against the populace. We are the standard bearers of status quo–merely holding the line.
    .
    Again, as Coetzee put it of his adopted homeland, which can stand in perfectly for America:
    .
    “Australia is by most standards an advanced democracy. It is also a land where cynicism about politics and contempt for politicians abound. But such cynicism and contempt are quite comfortably accomodated within the system. If you have reservations about the system and want to change it, the democratic argument goes, do so within the system: put yourself forward as a candidate for political office, subject yourself to the scrutiny and the vote of fellow citizens. Democracy does not allow for politics outside the democratic system. In this sense, democracy is totalitarian.”

  • shepherdwong

    “…it seems inevitable that a sufficient number of such voters (if they continue to vote) will favor the creation of a 3rd or 4th party eventually.”
    .
    I’m finding that a more and more plausible eventually, jc, but perhaps not the way you see it. The obvious answer has been to replace the conservadems with progressives until we had a working liberal majority in Congress. But it is clear now that it would require remedial political education for the politically vacuous middle which won’t happen without a top-to-bottom reform of the public media, which is an out-of-control corporate interest in its own right.
    .
    Anyway, I’m afraid we’ve run out of time. No matter what happens in November or 2012, it looks as though the public is going to be hung out to dry and, considering the current state of discontent and likely havoc in the near term as a result of continued centrist policies, I see things going badly. That will produce an opportunity for an extreme populist campaign (by today’s standards, at least). And that could be very good, if he or she is a true populist, or very bad, if it’s another sociopath pretending to be a populist – and they are all very practiced at pretending to be what they aren’t. Our best chance might be for Obama to sense the moment and repudiate “conservative” and centrist policies but, again, things will have to get a lot worse for him to risk abandoning the current source of his power, the oligarchy.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “Anyway, I’m afraid we’ve run out of time.”
    .
    Agreed–as horribly bad as things have gotten, it seems that our political class is unprepared to wean themselves from that steady diet of CW.
    .
    Just read this 「AP piece」 on the spill and was stunned by the tone. Obviously, I’m the captain of despair, but from my perch on the Pacific Rim, it’s hard to get a sense of the zeitgeist.
    .
    Obviously, I’ve long argued for the restorative potential of a true populist movement.
    .
    “Our best chance might be for Obama to sense the moment and repudiate ‘conservative’ and centrist policies but, again, things will have to get a lot worse for him to risk abandoning the current source of his power, the oligarchy.”
    .
    Here we totally agree–while neither of us is going to sing the praise of our ‘liberal’ president, he and his adopted their centrist stance as a means to gaining and maintaining power, vis a vis their coddling of the predatory class. If they begin to sense that their bankrupt ideology, as opposed to genuine liberalism, will be their undoing, they’ll just as quickly shapeshift into rabble-rousing populist progressives. Like other noxious born-again types who care about self-preservation more than principle–but it could be a short-term correction at the least.

  • allthingsinaname

    Principles my ass. The far left, and the far right claim the principle. The rest of us have none?
    .
    What the hell make you guys the ones holding the principles? How can the two groups of you at the opposite ends of the spectrum both hold the principle?
    .
    What is the principle?
    .
    To hell with your principles we will beat you both at the polls.

  • allthingsinaname

    Democracy does not allow for politics outside the democratic system. In this sense, democracy is totalitarian.”
    .
    What you say is that what the majority say you must adhere to, and to you that is totalitarian. But, that is democracy!.
    .
    I hear the same thing from both sides you are both nuts..
    I am sorry you didn’t get your way, but that is life. Live with it.
    .
    What you want is a system where you win, not us. So does the right.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    all-things:
    .
    What in buddha’s name are you clucking about? What is “the principle”? Since when has it been a singular concept?
    .
    Ron Paul has genuine, deeply felt beliefs (some might, gasp, call them principles), as does say Dennis Kucinich or Alan Grayson. You don’t have to respect someone’s beliefs, naturally.
    .
    I’m not trying to deny you whatever principles you hold. Full disclosure, I don’t know what your beliefs are–enlighten me. But if they’re neoliberal in scope…
    .
    Wiki can convey my opinion of the vast majority of our political class:
    .
    “opportunism–a trend of thought, or a political tendency, seeking to make political capital out of situations with the main aim being that of gaining more influence or support, instead of truly winning people over to a principled position or improving their political understanding.”
    .
    Opportunism’s core principle is an elision of principle. Centrism, neoliberalism, whatever f’ing term you like–it’s like one of the new religious cults that springs up here all the time. Whatever attracts the cash and the perch in the pulpit. Perhaps they’re a bit more polished than Stephen Baldwin about it, but…
    .
    http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/stephen-baldwin-preacher-man

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Whatever dude. In the end, don’t worry about us DFHs. We’ve been marginalized forever, we’re used to it. It’d be akin to worrying about the homeless threatening your way of life–we’re that far off the grid.

  • shepherdwong

    What the hell make you guys the ones holding the principles? How can the two groups of you at the opposite ends of the spectrum both hold the principle?

    If the principle of the left is social justice and the principle of the right is opposition to the left, I have no earthly idea what the principle of the middle might be.

  • shepherdwong

    “If they begin to sense that their bankrupt ideology, as opposed to genuine liberalism, will be their undoing, they’ll just as quickly shapeshift into rabble-rousing populist progressives.”
    .
    From your lips, my friend…

  • allthingsinaname

    “Opportunism’s core principle is an elision of principle. Centrism, neoliberalism, whatever f’ing term you like–it’s like one of the new religious cults that springs up here all the time.”
    .
    They are your frigging terms, not mine. You guys come up with all these wonderful terms to place people in some box that only you understand. All you are doing is copying some writer somewhere as if you had some intellectual thought.
    .
    Centrism, neoliberialism, Liberalism, Conservatism, opportunism, these are your words and you accuse me of having a cult like belief?
    .
    Oh yea your a cut above.

  • http://liuguoxinli.wordpress.com liuguoxinli
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