In the Arena

Bibi and Barak

Time’s Massimo Calabresi has a fine piece on the thorny relationship between Bibi Netanyahu and Barack Obama, in which he clears the air about what happened at their March 23 meeting in the White House–a meeting that has become the subject of viral rumor-mongering among neoconservatives and assorted Israeli-firsters. Here, for example, is John Podhoretz’s “account” of the meeting:

We still don’t know quite what happened, but it appears that the president came into the room with a list of unilateral demands, that he grew impatient with Netanyahu’s answers, and that he left unceremoniously by claiming he was going to have dinner with his wife and kids but that he would “be around” in case the prime minister “changed” his tune.

The bold-face emphasis above is mine. Because it’s interesting that, from not knowing quite what happened, Podhoretz gets all the way to this:

This is meaningful. It suggests not merely that Obama differs with Israel on matters of policy but also that he takes these differences personally. And that, in turn, demonstrates there is an animus at work here, a predisposition to think badly of Israel—to view the Jewish state at best as an impediment to the good working order of a fairer world and at worst as a sower of discord. This is a bitter truth…

A bitter truth! Oy-freaking-vey! Turns out the actual truth is not so bitter. Here is Calabresi’s account, based on multiple interviews with aides to Netanyahu and Obama:

On March 23, Netanyahu and Obama held a one-on-one in the Oval Office with no staffers. Scheduled for half an hour, it ran 90 minutes, the longest meeting Obama had held with any foreign leader. Much of it focused on Iran and issues unrelated to the peace process. But Netanyahu also put a proposal on the table for East Jerusalem, according to Israeli and American sources familiar with the conversation. Obama thought Netanyahu’s ideas were promising, and the two men continued the discussion with a handful of staffers, then joined a larger group in the Roosevelt Room.

Obama went to the residence for dinner with his family; Netanyahu continued to work on specific language with U.S. and Israeli staffers in the Roosevelt Room. At Netanyahu’s request, Obama returned, in casual clothes, and the two men spent an additional 35 minutes together alone, going over Netanyahu’s proposal for getting past the East Jerusalem impasse. When Netanyahu put his new proposal to his closest Cabinet members days later, they approved it. Netanyahu refused to accept a blanket freeze on eviction, demolition and construction in East Jerusalem, but he broke with previous Prime Ministers and offered to allow the Palestinians to reopen paragovernmental institutions in East Jerusalem, say senior Israeli and American officials. It was a rare moment of unity between two opposing worldviews: a symbolic gesture by Netanyahu that satisfied Obama’s practical needs.

Again, the emphasis is mine. And the truth appears to be the precise opposite of what Podhoretz posited: a moment of hateful–dare I imply, maybe, perhaps,crypto-Muslim, anti-semitic–spite on President Obama’s part was actually a rare, successful negotiation between two allies. It should be noted that Calabresi’s nuanced, balanced account does not gild the lily: there is real tension over Netanyahu’s desire to gobble up all of Jerusalem, in contravention of the Geneva Conventions.

Podhoretz is, thus, peddling the sort of uninformed, nefarious crap that elements of the Jewish community have been slinging about  Barack Obama since he emerged as a potential President. It should be noted, yet again, that Obama’s position on Israeli settlements in the occupied territories is precisely the same as that of every American President since Nixon (though, it must be noted, that George W. Bush mouthed the policy, but didn’t really believe it). As the editor of Commentary, a place where informed argument once took place, JPod presides over a greasy gusher of swill like this on a daily basis. No actual defense of Israeli encroachment onto Palestinian territories is ever broached there. That is because the only defense possible is an imperial one–we took the land, we own it. The Palestinians are barbarians. (And, in the evangelical variant: it’s prophesy. Jewish control of all the Holy Land is necessary for the End of Times to commence.)

In its refusal to reflect on the moral consequences of these actions–and its refusal to engage in a serious discussion of these issues–Commentary stands well outside the Jewish intellectual tradition, a tradition of rigor and the appreciation of philosophical inconvenience, that many of us cherish.

(I will concede this much to Podhoretz: Maybe Barack should have offered Bibi a nice pastrami sandwich…although Netanyahu probably had other dinner plans.)

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  • nflfoghorn

    Are evangelicals (that rare strain of Christianity that apparently wants to see Revelation happen) that powerful?? So much so that they WANT to see Israel continue to own what it shouldn’t?

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    You’re such a noodnik.

  • deconstructiva

    Joe, what are the latest ideas about Jerusalem? Strictly imho, I’d make it an independent city-state under UN / team rule: neither Israel nor Palestine will own it. They can make (suburbs) their capitals but leave the Old City alone …but this still wouldn’t solve the East J. housing problem.
    .
    OT, but Joe, could you make sure an open thread or two is posted this weekend for us (others asked in Katie’s posts but if she left for weekend won’t notice)? Also, when Adam comes back would you and Amy please do The Call™ with him? It’s your turn. Besides, there are many topics for both of you. For example, given Amy’s Michigan roots / MI’s huge Muslim population combined with your Afghan / Mideast tours, you two could discuss how families w/ relatives both here and there cope with current woes. Future dead-tree story too? Thanks.

  • square1

    John Podhoretz is a dishonest racist hack. Garbage in. Garbage out.

  • constantweader

    Yes, they were when George W. Bush was in office. Bush, an evangelical Christian, expressed to then-French President Jacques Chirac that the war against Iraq was a holy war, & he cited some malarky from Ezekiel about beating down Gog & Magog. Chirac didn’t know what Bush was talking about & had to get a professor of religion to explain it to him. He was appalled.

    In addition, the Pentagon, to keep Bush in line, I suppose, used to send Bush each daily briefing memo with a cover page citing some Old Testament warmongering verses. Unlike some Presidents who were probably closet atheists, the anti-intellectual Bush II bought into the literal Bible stuff. He’s no doubt waiting to be raptured up now.

    The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

  • sevenoaks07

    Joe: However tough Netanyahu is I think one has to look at his political position in a very lousy coalition. Commentary and JPod are totally useless when it comes to solving the Israel-Palestine issue. I don’t know how far their remit extends and how much credibility they enjoy in Israel

    Both Israel and Palestine are unable to deal with the fissures within their own political systems; and both of them have to have policies that allow for mutually unrealistic accommodations.

    Sadly I see both sides heading for a collision since neither has credibility.

    I understand that the present South African government is ready to publish the documentaion relating to the nuclear help Israel offered to apartheid South Africa and that things will heat up after the soccer fest.

  • http://melissasouza.wordpress.com melissasouza

    Joe, why do you feel so compelled to use this precious space at Swampland with these beefs you have with the neo-con crazies? It seems that every other day you alternate among getting at these wackos–from the folks at Commentary (or according to Woody Allen, Dysentery), to Bill Kristol, to the freakish Krauthammer, to this Peter Weher (I don’t even know if I spelled his name right–having never heard of him nor, thankfully, read anything he wrote), etc. You yourself have said that these people are WAY out there–their views are no longer part of mainstream debate and they have no influence on the powers that be (barring some catastrophe in 2012, may the Heavens protect us). No one bothers with these people except for their nano-following. If you really want to fret about loonies, go after the ones that are still out there, the ones that can still do damage–Dick Cheney comes to mind on this one. I would like our wonderful press, instead of getting all worked up about this non-”scandal” that is the Sestak situation, to start re-digging and really digging very, VERY deeply into what this Cheney scoundrel was up to with the oil companies, with MMS, with this whole fricking mess of a non-energy, anti-regulatory catastrophe that is exploding on us now. What exactly happened during those secret energy meetings back in the early 2000′s? What role did that rat play in the MMS fiasco? This has always remained murky, and I suspect that there is criminal action here, if anyone really bothers to investigate it thoroughly. If we’re not going to prosecute the guy for torture, then we can try and get him on this energy thing. Somewhere, there has to be something, some piece of evidence, someone willing to talk, about what really went on during that lost decade. I like it better when you go after Cheney, Joe. Unfortunately, he still counts. He can still do harm. He’s much more powerful and important than anyone of these loons you air your qualms with.

  • kevin

    the truth appears to be the precise opposite of what Podhoretz posited
    .
    As always, right?

  • nflfoghorn

    I agree that Dick needs to be investigated, but disagree with his current power/influence, of which he has little of either nowadays.
    .
    Neocoons [sic] on both shores unfortunately were ruling the roost for most of the 2000s. I think JK’s story proves that even Nahoohoo is realizing he needs to loosen up for the sake of the region and his country’s future.

  • allthingsinaname

    No they just want to tell Jesus what to do.

  • nflfoghorn

    What? Daring to question what Israel does–most of it when it’s in the wrong–makes me a nood…whatever?? OK fine, 2/3.
    .
    Scary to think of how ignorant and simple-minded our former top leader is. He truly saw himself as God’s apocalyptic instrument of change: went with his gut, looked in others’ souls, went to war with Iraq to bring “God” [his version anyway] to the godless, etc.
    .
    Don’t get me wrong, I love God and His Servant and He guides me throughout life. He also didn’t teach me to be factually devoid and incompetent. And if the end times come I don’t think He needs my help in expediting it.

  • allthingsinaname

    I was taught in my religious studies to let reason be my guide.

  • husein11

    Once again, Joe, the most virulent self hating jew can’t help himself but write another article about his hatred for Israelis and jewish people. Joe and his cadre of other self hating jews are FAR more dangerous to the lives of Israelis and jews than any militia in Minnesota, Alabama, Montana, etc.

  • sevenoaks07

    Thank you for adding such a profound observation on Joe and other self-hating Jews. Meanwhile back in Israel…

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Neocons are nothing if not persistent. During the Obama Presidency they will wait on the sidelines and routinely lie about the President’s relationship to Israel but they will be there at the ready if another Republican stooge happens along who looks like he might be able to further their agenda. Don’t forget that McCain’s ‘foreign policy’ team included some of the most virulent war-for-profit participants you can imagine.

  • greenlyfe

    The account you sight is inaccurate: the night Bibi came to town Michelle and the girls where in New York. I don’t know what happened; but the President did go to the residence alone and had dinner I assume and came back down to see the Prime Minister at his request.

    The dinner w/his daughters thing was something the Israelis put out to save face. Obama was dissing them as they had dissed Biden; the difference is that for some inexplicable reason papers ran with this cover story.

  • newfreedomblog

    So basically the entire “Israeli-Palestinian” problem comes down to the fact that the Palestinians want a “homeland” of their own. To govern, and do at will as any other soveriegn nation. Do I have this right? Along with that over time the Palestinians have also added to the mix, East Jerusalem as their capital city of this new Palestinian Nation. And, for the citizens of the United States to perpetually PAY for their existence. Correct?
    .
    This is the problem when you deal with cultures such as those in the middle east. They will barter, deal, and attempt to get the best deal possible starting out with the most lavish of all proposals which fully and totally benefit their specific side.
    .
    Then we can argue what right do the Palestinians have to any land in this area other than what they now occupy.
    .
    It seems we are down to talking about specifics after nearly 30 years of negotiations which started with Carter. We are now down to “accept a blanket freeze on eviction, demolition and construction in East Jerusalem”, but of what freeze? Of course Joe conveniently leaves out any details on that, if there were any details at all.
    .
    Give them part of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and be done with it. Build the biggest fence the world has ever seen around them to seclude them from ever leaving. Give them a few billy clubs so they can beat their citizens into submission, but nothing more. But, I predict this will never solve any of the problems. They will always want more, and always want the destruction of the Jewish State of Israel. Along with the nutballs in Iran, a Hezbollah run government will always be threatening to Israel.
    .
    The 2nd option: Hopefully the next President of the United States will recognize this for what it truly is, a scam on the part of both Palesinians and Jews in Israel. So long as they can keep up this fight, time has shown them Americans will pay out of our hard earned tax dollars to support both sides in order to prevent armageddon. I say pull out completely. Look at both sides and simply say “You are on your own now, work it out”, and stop the flow of money to them both. I’ll bet in two weeks a “deal” would be struck, and the whole thing solved once and for all. Tell them if they want any American subsidies it will not happen until they do work it all out.

  • http://astrosynchronicity.us/stars vrajavala

    Michelle and her kids were in New York. so, if he told Bibi he was going for supper, why didn’t he ask him to join him?

  • benjoya

    enough of this “self-hating” crap. when i criticize likud, i demand to be called an anti-semite just like any goy would.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    This is Rusty’s contribution to the conversation:
    .
    Give them part of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and be done with it. Build the biggest fence the world has ever seen around them to seclude them from ever leaving. Give them a few billy clubs so they can beat their citizens into submission, but nothing more. But, I predict this will never solve any of the problems. They will always want more,

    File under: Self-discrediting free speech……

  • ohiolibb

    God, please save me from your followers

  • megatronrises

    nud·nik [pronounced nood-nik]
    .
    –noun: Slang.
    .
    Definition: a persistently dull, boring pest.

  • megatronrises

    With a name like “husein11″ I’m quite sure you have such a rich experience with Jews that you can identify the self-haters from a mile away, right?
    .
    Right…

  • husein11

    Ok Benji, you are an anti-semite. Now go back to your conversation with your buddies about the evils of jewish people.

  • apr2563

    Any alliance is possible in the facilitation of the End Times. Rev Hagee has affiliated himself to Catholics and Jews, two despised groups by many Evangelicals. The Catholics (Papists) support his anti-choice preaching and loving the Jews and supporting Israel brings the End Times closer when only the true believers (Evangelicals) will survive. It also makes Hagee a lot of money.

  • apr2563

    That is all that remains at NRO. I used to enjoy reading it for a different point of view but it is now the printed version of Fox News. Bill Buckley had disassociated himself from much of their rhetoric.

  • formerlyjames

    At the heart of it there isn’t a lot of difference in the descriptions of the meeting, only insignificant points that may be true or not (Obama was outwardly rude and took matters personally; the wife and girls were out of town).
    .
    The fact is that there is no warm and fuzzy relationship (known as “special” in the UK) between the two. With Israel, all neocons, many other Jews, there can only be one kind of relationship, the W. Bush, my way or the highway kind. They are complete brainwashed zombie children. At least one can credit their parents with having sorted out their ideology through time and experience. The sheltered offspring only enjoy the benefits of wealth and influence of their parents, not the experience.
    .
    Israel is an albatross around America’s neck and the greatest threat to peace in the world. In foreign policy, it is impossible for America to credibly claim to not be waring against Islam while tethered to the fascist actions of Israel.
    .
    It is a given that no such discussion as this can be had without the anti-semetic bomb being thrown. My response is that although I hold all religion in disdain, I am certainly not specifically anti-semite. But people like Podhoretz and the actions of the extreme Israeli government sure are doing their best to get me there.

  • http://sdaitech1.wordpress.com sdaitech1

    Don’t ask questions of people who can’t answer them.

    So far Obama is doing everything Dick Cheney was doing. Guantanomo? Torture? Afghanistan and Iraq?

    Nothing has changed. You are singing like an aeolian harp and the only thing I hear is anti-Cheney gibberish.

    Reading Joe Klein’s pieces is torture enough for an intelligent mind. Reading the caterwauling of his loyal flock of posters is worse then the extraordinary renditions still going on under President “Change”.

    Your world is imploding because you elected a man who is Cheney-ultra-lite, designed in Chicago, a whole subsidiary of Soros World Management. A President whose first selection and Chief of Staff is Rahm Emmanuel, the fish stabbing, boy blunder, who thinks liberal activists are useful tools and…well, you can look it up.

    The economy is tanked. While Obama shows how incompetent he is in solving the crisis in the Gulf, Obama is having his AG waste time going after Arizona employer sanctions and the recently drafted SB1070 while applauding the 3rd world tinpot politicians that are funneling trillions of dollars out of our economy to support their crooked, corrupt nation. Obama and Calderon. The Chicago mob’s PR man meets the Cartel’s PR man. And the democrats rise to applaud the anti-US lawlessness promoted.

    The USA has been on cruise control since January 2009. It’s veered off the highway now in the general direction Bush-Cheney were pointing it. Because Obama is still voting “present” – only now he is doing it from the White House. Only now and then doing something Soros wants him to do – like destroy the 2nd most profitable enterprise in the US: healthcare.

    Meanwhile, Joe Klein is doing his job; Trying to misdirect and throw half-empty water buckets on fires in the burning DC forest. He’s already racing off to the next one. That’s the sole job of the propaganda peddlers in DC and it doesn’t pay very well and you get to go to work in a snake den every day and slither home at night.

    Leave poor Joe alone.

  • danielatlanta

    Joe, forgetting the “end of times” scenario, it is still a fact that Bible prophecy did foretell the liberation of the Temple Mount in 1967, well before it happened.

    That event is clearly stipulated in the Book of Daniel, chapter 8. See http://www.prophecysociety.org/previews/chapter_one.pdf for proof.

    You denegrate anyone who believes the veracity of the Bible, but the Bible is factual when history confirms what it says, as it did in 1967, and there is no way around it.

  • jlbrumb

    Very simple and fair proposal; on the next visit by Netanyahu arrest him as a war criminal and hang him the next morning. Just to see if that saves American lives,

  • shepherdwong

    Couldn’t hoit.

  • rdw56

    This makes Obama’s PR team look increadibly inept because virtually every report of the meeting was of a disaster. Obama clearly took a beating here and in Israel. Why is this just being reported now?

  • http://liuguoxinli.wordpress.com liuguoxinli
  • rdw56

    Netanyahu is in a solid political position with majority support on all key issues including this one. You and Joe seem to forget his defense minister and the guy who managed this affair is Ehud Barak of the labor party. Lvini has totally marginalized herself.

    BiBi has also put a clinic on Obama. Obamas polls in Israel are in the toilet. While Clinton was careful to manage Israeli public opinion in marginalizing Netanyahu in the late 90′s Obama has been an arrogant buffoon. His famous Cairo speech was a disaster inside Israel and the last meeting at the WH when he publically humiliated Netanyahu only compounded his problems. It is Obama who has been undercut. Key members of his own party have issued public statements supporting Israel and assurimg them aid will never be cut.

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