Republican Governors Pay Homage To Guy Fawkes

A few years back, two left-leaning writers, Andy and Lana Wachowski, adapted the story of Guy Fawkes, a Catholic radical who is remembered primarily for his failed attempt, on November 5, 1605, to blow up the Houses of Parliament and kill King James I. The Wachowski brothers movie, V for Vendetta, made Fawkes the hero and presented the British crown as an oppressive dictatorship that was meant to echo, at least in technique, certain aspects of the administration of George W. Bush, down to the hooded prisoners, the orange jump suits and the unapologetic embrace of harsh interrogation techniques.

The meaning of Fawkes is, of course, not fixed. The Wachowski brothers’ retelling of the Fawkes’ story was later embraced by libertarian supporters of Ron Paul. During the 2008 campaign, “Remember, Remember The Fifth of November” became a rallying cry for Paul boosters, who shared at least some of the revolutionary fire of both Fawkes and the Wachowskis. On November 5, 2007, Guy Fawkes Day, Paul supporters raised more than $4 million online.

Now, the Fawkes mythology has come full circle. The Republican Governors Association has embraced the symbolism of Fawkes, launching a rather striking website, RememberNovember.com, with a video that showcases far more Hollywood savvy than one can usually expect from Republicans. Again, the Fawkes tale has been twisted a bit. This time, President Obama plays the roll of King James, the Democratic leadership is Parliament, and the Republican Party represents the aggrieved Catholic mass.

The politics and substance aside, this strikes me as a remarkable bit of political messaging, not just for its cinematic quality. The RGA, under the control of Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, is clearly stepping out of the stodgy, safe territory it normally inhabits. It is aiming to tap into the vast well of anti-government fury now coursing through the nation. Who would have guessed that Barbour would embrace the symbolic value of the same would-be mass murderer as the Wachowski brothers?

One other note, RGA message wizards have intentionally not circulated this video on YouTube or made an embed version of it publicly available. (Swampland asked for, and was granted, special dispensation.) They want people to view it on their site, RememberNovember.com, in the hopes of building a grassroots army.

UPDATE: I notice quite a bit of electronic dust this post has stirred up on the interwebbing. A couple points: First, as I suggest in the post, the tale of Fawkes has been so thoroughly appropriated by so many that it is just not right to associate the latest appropriators with the intent of the original criminal in 1605. The RGA is not calling for a violent uprising here. It is tapping into well-established online anti-government memes. (Remember 1984.) The Wachowski brothers, who were themselves referencing a comic book adaptation of the Fawkes story, were not calling for violence when they made their movie. Ron Paul supporters were not calling for violence when they decided to raise $4 million in 2007. To suggest that this is what the RGA is doing now is, it seems to me, overly simplistic and inflammatory. Second, there has been some speculation in the comments that the RGA fed me the Fawkes reference. They did not. But the connection is not exactly a stretch for anyone who has closely followed Republican politics online (and yes, here I am counting Paul as a Republican). Aside from the Remember November refrain, the classical music, the near-apocalyptic crises messages, the suggestions of totalitarian intent, the imagery of Castro and marching soldiers, the sound of a ticking clock all points to a well established online narrative, where Fawkes thrives as a sort of folk hero for all ideologies. These sorts of videos are made to go viral. They are intended to be edgy, provocative. They are meant to tap into running passions, online story lines. This one is very successful at accomplishing its viral mission.

Related Topics: guy fawkes, haley barbour, rga, Uncategorized
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  • ohiotick

    V for Vendetta was a comic book from the 80s. It was written by Alan Moore. The Wachowskis just adapted the comic book.

  • sacredh

    “Remember, Remember The Fifth of November”

    John Lennon also referenced this passage in “Remember” on his 1970 landmark album John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band. Followed by the sound of an explosion. The republicans have lost their f**king minds.

  • jbaustian

    I don’t think one needs to know a thing about Guy Fawkes to appreciate the quality or the message of this video. The comments by Alcee Hastings and the Reverend Al Sharpton are especially delicious.

  • sacredh

    “that showcases far more Hollywood savvy than one can usually expect from Republicans”

    The repblicans are always slamming Hollywood and actors mouthing off about politics. Reagan. Sonny Bono. Swartzenegger. Thompson. They hate Hollywood unless they get their candidates from…Hollywood. Reagan committed treason by trading arms for hostages and he’s an icon to them.

  • sacredh

    Would one also not “need to know a thing” about Adolph Hitler to praise his ability to mesmerize a crowd?

  • allthingsinaname

    The GOP is sick, mentally ill. Next they will tell me to love it, or leave it.

  • darius3

    The politics and substance aside, this strikes me as a remarkable bit of political messaging, not just for its cinematic quality.
    .
    “Remarkable”? I find it intensely creepy.

  • hellslittlestangel

    Yeah, right, this is head and shoulders above all the other Republican appeals to fear and resentment that make positive allusions to violence because it has good production values. If only the GOP can find their Leni Riefenstahl, then they can take their country back from the inferior usurpers.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “The politics and substance aside, this strikes me as a remarkable bit of political messaging…”

    Said the journalist during the Fall of the Weimar…

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “It is aiming to tap into the vast well of anti-government fury now coursing through the nation.”

    Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say it is aiming at the vast well of anti-government fury and ignorance coursing through the empty lives and minds of the American right?

  • scooterfox

    sweet, the GOP is condoning domestic terrorism!

  • apr2563

    Leni Riefenstahl would admire this film. Michael you are in awe of propoganda meant to induce irrational fear in people. Leni made some pretty technically terrific films also. Message not so great.
    .
    Thanks for passing on something that was difficult to access so that it would find a wider audience. With this type of film, asking for ID from brown looking people (as I said on another thread, maybe we could have color coded stars for our sleeves), and the brown shirt militias, we can almost salute Beck, Hannity, et al and say Heil!

  • allthingsinaname

    Yup, time to purify the country. Great day to be an American. Send me your whites, send me your wealthy, send me your educated. We wil send you our poor, uneducated, and unfortunate citizens among us.

  • Mitch Guthman

    So the Republicans are back to hating Catholics again? I thought the Republicans considered them as sort of “honorary” Christians because of their stand on abortion rights and because this Pope and some of the leadership (at least in America is kind of conservative politically?

  • Art Pepper

    The Republicans aren’t advocating violence, they are just saying that it would good if someone tried to blow up the White House and murder the President.

    btw, if the governors feel so aggrieved, why don’t they introduce articles of secession? Good riddance, I say.

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    The word “terrorism” is so 2001. The preferred word is “freedom fighter”, “Bill Belichick”, or “libido liberator”.

  • ohiopapa

    This video shows how low the Republicans will stoop to regain power, stringing together video bits that twist the truth and insult the viewer’s intelligence, in order to transfer responsibility for this economic mess to the current adminstration.

    We will remember in November.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    I love that Castro gets in a plug for HCR. Yes, Cuba’s universal free health care and what our dysfunctional gov’t just passed–no difference at all. Obama = Castro.

    And the notion that their words are the reason Sharpton & Hastings appeared in this ad, as opposed to the color of their skin, the lovely imagery of 3 black men with power.

    As KT once said, “I grew up in Texas. I know what this stuff looks like.”

  • Art Pepper

    I have some other suggestions for the Republican governors:

    The GOP as the Baader-Meinhof gang, Obama as Hanns Martin Schleyer.

    The GOP as Shining Path, Obama as the president of Peru.

    The GOP as Timothy McVeigh, Obama as the citizens of Oklahoma.

    How could this possibly fail?

  • ifthethunderdontgetya

    I do remember a president who said it was legal if he said it was, and authorized spying on Americans and torture.

    What was that guy’s name?
    ~

  • kevin

    The comments by Alcee Hastings and the Reverend Al Sharpton are especially delicious.
    .
    Interesting that they’re in there, as Hastings is a back bencher whose re-election isn’t in doubt and Sharpton isn’t even an elected figure.
    .
    Oh, I forgot. They’re both black.

  • kevin

    Yeah, the imagery is terrific.
    .
    That shot of the Dow numbers, and the image of the depressed stockbroker, and all the rest — that totally negates the fact that under Obama the stock market has actually gone from 6600 to over 11000 in just a year.
    .
    Who needs facts and figures when you have imagery?

  • kevin

    MS would really have praised Hitler for his message discipline.
    .
    Oh, and the logo of the Nazi Party — really visually striking!

  • kevin

    I’ll remember in November.
    .
    Hey GOP: Guy Fawke yourselves.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “The politics and substance aside, this strikes me as a remarkable bit of political messaging…”

    This too:

  • 53_3

    It’s odd that they’ve been spending so much time robbing quotes from our forefathers to get their message across. These GOPers have pretty much totally misinterpreted our forefathers’ intent (a swamcritter yesterday commented on this, I forgot who).
    .
    Now, after having totally hashed our history, they are going after the UK’s?

  • 53_3

    Fock Yeah!

  • kevin

    Fox News: You Can Fool Some of the People All of the Time™

  • 53_3

    Such a beautiful job of demonizing Black Americans, too. They got it all in there in one lick!

  • 53_3

    If I had no clue what was going on, I would have bought into it, too. They’ve turned an election into a takeover by Black special interests, and are invoking their conception of the morals that are extant in the Black community.
    .
    My hat is off to them. Southern Strategy never dies. Nosiree!
    .
    It just gets old…

  • 53_3

    Micheal:
    .
    I’m astonished by your, uh, “colorblindness” in your, uh, “analysis”. You are really “shooting from the hip”.
    .
    Actually, I don’t think I would accuse you of any “honesty”(1) here. Honestly (2)!
    .
    Are you sure you didn’t miss anything here? See any dogwhistles laying around perhaps?
    .
    It’s all a matter of perspective, I guess, ain’t it?
    .
    (1). Look up these code words in the ol’ GOP Southern Strategy “playbook”.
    .
    (2). No, Micheal, I really do not think you are “honest” in the Southern Strategy sense, but I am being honest in my belief that you are more than a little bit reluctant to comment on what is obviously a raging dogwhistle chorus!
    .
    I hope you are not like others who would claim that it is progressives that are fostering the image that conservatives are intolerant and hateful, because if you do ascribe to that idea, let me just say that it is stuff like this that helps reinforce that very stereotype that conservatives rail constantly about.

  • megatronrises

    The movie had different enough nuance to really anger Alan Moore. He hated it.

  • sacredh

    “This video shows how low the Republicans will stoop to regain power, stringing together video bits that twist the truth and insult the viewer’s intelligence”.
    .
    The audience this video is aimed at isn’t going to consider it an insult to their intelligence. They’re going to look at it as “all the proof they need”.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Eh, it was a natural for them.
    -
    They worked so hard to turn 9/11 into America’s Reichstag Fire, why not co-opt earlier historical acts of terrorism?
    -
    I guess that Glenn Beck fan in Pittsburgh, and that Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity fan in Knoxville, were the GOP’s version of the Haymarket bombing and assassination of Thomas a Beckett, respectively.
    -
    Hey, those guys are all just entertainers, right? This is all just performance art.

  • Janus Daniels

    “… far more Hollywood savvy than one can usually expect from Republicans…”
    Are you kidding?
    The Reagan\Bush years ran on photo-op.
    When else has any political party owned its own TV, radio stations, newspapers, it’s own media empire?
    Oh!
    Oh.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    FYI, there are substantiating links (invisibly, for me) in my post 2.5, at “America’s Reichstag Fire,” “Glenn Beck fan in Pittsburgh,” “Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity fan in Knoxville.”

  • sacredh

    Palin had it wrong. Her minions aren’t the “real” Americans. Liberals are. As much as I couldn’t stand Bush/Cheney, I never wanted the country to fail. I never wanted violence against republicans in the house or senate. I never wanted someone to blow up congress. I just wanted the next elections to hurry up and get here. The makers and supporters of this video and the republican governors are flirting very close to actual sedition. Traitors.

  • 3xfire3

    I’m amazed at the reaction in all the above posts.
    .
    Had this same video been made by the Democratic Party while George Bush was President, all you Liberals would be praising it as a noble effort to show how bad Bush was.
    .
    Yet when Republicans do the same thing Democrats have done many times in the past you go nuts.
    .
    You liberals are always hypocrites. That’s why you are such a small part of our political system and will be totally irrelevant after November.

  • sacredh

    Of course you are wrong again. Your party has been taken over by lunatic extremists and you think that any any ends justify the means. If a democrat had put together a video that paid homage to Fawkes I would have been calling for his resignation. Obama included.

    Speaking of irrelevant…how’s that 41 seat majority working out for you? Prevented healthcare reform lately?

  • michaelfury
  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    apr2563,
    .
    “Leni Riefenstahl would admire this film.”
    .
    I saw a so-so (very long) German documentary on Leni Riefenstahl.
    .
    She was twenty five years ahead of her time in her presentation. The tragic part is that her work promoted what we all know was the most evil government in centuries.
    .
    Bulls eye!
    .
    It is a wonderful presentation of a huge lie, just like Birth of a Nation.
    .
    Fortunately, Republicans are not Nazis, but just have been driving this country backwards again and again.

  • Cliff

    Michael, I am trying very hard not to nerd rage right now, because I realize very few other people care about these things like me.
    .
    But I wonder how difficult it would have been to use sites like Google or Wikipedia or Amazon to research a few basic facts:

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “That’s why you are such a small part of our political system..”
    .
    I guess if you let any random people in the world post their thoughts online without any type of restrictions other than not making threats against one another or other criminal activity you would have almost all conservatives with hardly one of those hard to find liberals.
    .
    Imagine if Time magazine did this?
    It would be all Republicans and hardly any liberals, right?
    .
    Ooops.
    .
    I think that you’ve got your facts backwards and, I do not know of any liberal who would disagree with sacred on this “If a democrat had put together a video that paid homage to Fawkes I would have been calling for his resignation. Obama included.”
    .
    We aren’t angry. We’re just sarcastic. We don’t even joke about blowing people up.

  • sacredh

    Get thee behind me blogwhore!

  • sacredh

    Further back. That’s for export only.

  • sfheath

    Mr. Scherer, did you contact the RGA to ask if they were consciously appropriating Guy Fawkes or V for Vendetta, or did you make that connection yourself? Yes, Fawkes’ Night is the fifth of November, but remember what else happens in November- the U.S. elections. Maybe they just liked the rhyme Remember November without caring about (or knowing about) the obvious cultural references.

  • jbaustian

    sacredh: Palin had it wrong. Her minions aren’t the “real” Americans. Liberals are. As much as I couldn’t stand Bush/Cheney, I never wanted the country to fail. I never wanted violence against republicans in the house or senate. I never wanted someone to blow up congress. I just wanted the next elections to hurry up and get here. The makers and supporters of this video and the republican governors are flirting very close to actual sedition. Traitors. (end of quote)
    .
    So many myths here, so little that is real. “Wanting the country to fail” — pure myth. What is real: wanting Obama to fail, wanting Obama’s agenda to fail. Big difference. Inciting violence? blowing up Congress? pure fiction.
    .
    You Democrats toss around “treason” and “sedition” like confetti in a World Series victory parade. Yet when real acts of treason were committed in the past, your side defended them as allowed by the First Amendment, and cheered the perpetrators.
    .
    From 2001 to 2008, Democrats had one firm rule: “What was good for America was bad for Democrats, and vice-versa.”
    .
    They wanted an American defeat in Iraq, they even predicted an American defeat, because it would have diminished George W Bush’s historical stature. And they blocked economic reforms that might have prevented or at least lessened the harm caused by the bursting of the housing bubble, rather than give George W Bush a legislative victory.

  • jerikko

    3x:
    .
    I have to admit that the video was well done. I think it has a similar appeal as Obama’s “yes we can” video. However, IMO it is simply perpetuating Republican talking points and not offering much substance to the debate.
    .
    I get frustrated with conservatives talking about how Obama has inflated our debt to unsustainable levels when in actuality it was not entirely his administration that is at fault.
    .
    I would love to have an honest debate about government spending. However, under this Republican leadership we have not seen much debate, only scare tactics directed at the uninformed voters

  • jerikko

    FTW!

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “We “Remember November” so that we can prevent the fiscal disaster waiting for our children and grandchildren. No longer will we allow politicians concerned with their political career to choose debt and irresponsibility over making the difficult choices. Soon America will be unable to dig itself from the burden of growing debt.”
    .
    And who is it that has created the vast majority of the debt in the last 40 years, Ronald Reagan and George Bush. Maybe these guys on on to something? Let’s remember who these politicians are and what party they represent.

  • sfheath

    3x: hypothetical, counterfactual.

    False equivalency.

    Bush: lied into war, illegally wiretapped US citizens, drained the treasury with tax give-aways to the richest, tortured innocent people, outed a CIA agent, etc., etc., etc.

    Obama: historic campaign, Recovery Act, Health Care reform Act, unemployment numbers turning around. Managing the budget above board. Increasing transparency and accountability (still a long way to go, I know), etc., etc., etc.

    Yet, to you, it’s just fine if the Republicans put out this kind of nonsense because you think the Democrats would do it to??? In what world does that make sense?

  • sacredh

    jbaustian: Your post is completely ludicrous. Democrats never wanted Iraq to fail. It was our troops. Our troops lives. Our country’s treasury being burned up. Many of us thought that the way the war was being fought would result in civil war. The surge was a success. I was thrilled it worked. We all were. Remember when some of our generals said we didn’t have enough troops for success and Cheney/Bush insisted we did? Probably not.
    .
    George Bush’s historical stature? Are you kidding me? He’ll go down down as one of the absolue worst President’s in our history. What stature are you talking about. Is being the worst some sort of badge of honor? There were always some democrats that voted with the republicans. Your party wants total united opposition on all fronts. It doesn’t matter if the American people suffer.
    .
    When 9/11 happened all Americans united behind the President. If another 9/11 happens do you really expect anyone to believe that republicans will unite behind Obama? It will be a political opportunity for them to cry and point fingers. Your party bus has been hijacked by lunatics and it has plenty of willing passengers.

  • jerikko

    @sacred 13.1:
    .
    Unfortunately I have to agree with you. When Fox News is the only source of “facts” for a demographic of people, they get slightly skewed information.
    .
    I turned on Glenn Beck the other day just see why exactly he was so popular (my grandma, a life long Republican, loves him). After about 20 minutes all he would use as a rebuttal was that this administration, and all of Europe for that matter, or either communists or parts of the National Socialist party, his “European, or Progressive” political spectrum. I thought it odd that he put the Nazi party on the right of this spectrum, but I guess I’m not the one that makes millions of dollars selling fear to the American people.
    .
    And if you call him out when he’s wrong, he’ll call you a socialist/communist/fascist/elitist. I’m sure I’m missing a few…

  • sacredh

    jerikko: I used the parental lock-out feature to block Fox in our house because my MIL lives with us and despite being a lifelong democrat, she let her dislike of blacks to turn her into a fan of Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly and Fox. I had told her many times I didn’t care what she watched as long as she didn’t come running to me every time she heard something on that cesspool and claim she had proof. Her church says that Obama is the anti-Christ, they’re birthers, say he is a socialist and whatever conspiracy theory nonsense they can dream up. I also banned people from her church from coming to our house too. They wanted to annoint me with oil and drive out my demons. Her minister and I came very close to getting into a fist fight (in my house) so it can get a little tense here.

  • Ffred

    And, like Harlan Ellison, complains all the way to the bank.

  • sacredh

    ffred, I’m a big fan of Harlan. His writing.

  • ohiolib

    Bout time this place let me log in again. I wanted to yell yesterday about feeding the trolls, but I was unable to log in.
    -
    The republicans have lost their f**king minds.
    -
    Dude, the R minds have been gone since about 1980, when the R party was hijacked by the American taliban wing of the party.

  • apr2563

    Sacredh: What you said!

  • 11charlie

    “So many myths here, so little that is real. “Wanting the country to fail” — pure myth. What is real: wanting Obama to fail, wanting Obama’s agenda to fail. Big difference. ”

    How will you know that Obama’s agenda’s is a failure?

    Saying “I want Obama to fail, not the country” is just like saying “I want the doctor to fail, but I don’t want the patient he’s operating on to die.”

  • http://dirtywords.wordpress.com/ Joe Helfrich

    Following the disaster that was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Moore has refused any involvement in *or money from* both V for Vendetta and Watchmen, directing that his share of monies due be distributed to his co-creators on the comics in question.

    Regardless, that’s no excuse for leaving him out of the original article. V for Vendetta deliberately draws from the Guy Fawkes history and mythology, but is not a simple retelling of it.

  • http://meowhissspit.wordpress.com meowhissspit

    “Remember November” in contradistinction to “Remember in November” is a reminder to conservatives that much work lies ahead in preparation for November. Conservatives cannot simply lie down and wait while liberals bribe, cheat, and scheme November elections into a meaningless formality.

  • http://meowhissspit.wordpress.com meowhissspit

    What sort of smoke is Derek (26) trying to blow in our faces? Our dear Barack Obama and Democrat Congress have overseen more deepening of the national debt in a year and a few months than has been seen under all previous Republican presidents in all their years.

  • 11charlie

    “We will remember in November”
    .
    I have to ask: What is it that the GOP is promising if they win back control of Congress?
    .
    Repeal HCR? Even if by some miracle the Republicans do pull that one off, what are their alternatives? Kicking the issue down the road and hoping Americans forget about it?
    .
    Lower taxes? If the tax cuts under Bush and the Republicans didn’t prevent the recession, how are they going to help now?
    .
    Less government regulation? Yeah, considering how the country got into its mess, that’s not going to help.
    .
    Cutting the budget? Okay, what? Social Security? Medicare? Defense? Highway funding? “Pork barrel spending” only adds up to around 1 to 5 percent (matters who you ask) of the total federal budget, so what other “waste” will Republicans cut?
    .
    Also, a lot of red states take in more federal dollars than what they send to Washington. Are they going to end that hog trough for their constituents?
    .
    I understand that there’s a whole mess of “anger” out there (or is it more anxiety and confusion?), but I’ve got to think that a good number of Americans are looking at the message the GOP is conveying, and are thinking “what are they going to do better from the last time?”
    .
    Then again, I’m a hopeless optimist.

  • 11charlie

    “Had this same video been made by the Democratic Party while George Bush was President, all you Liberals would be praising it as a noble effort to show how bad Bush was.”
    .
    But the Democratic Party didn’t make a video anywhere near this one, even though they had eight years to do so.
    .
    You can’t justify the RGA’s actions by saying “Well, the Democrats WOULD have done the same”. The DNC had the opportunity during the Bush administration to make a video as inflammatory as the RGA’s, and they chose not to.

  • gregm91436

    Elvis Elvisber, I’m glad I’m not the only one who keeps tabs on extremist right-wing violence. For those who need more information to smack down right-wingers in debate, the Knoxville Tennessee murders took place, in a Unitarian Church, in July of 2008; the assassin was Jim David Adkisson. If you want to google, you can read his manifesto, in which he says many Beck-like and O’Reilly-like things, like that fact that all liberals are Marxists. He also explicitly mentions being a fan of Bernard Goldberg.

    Glenn Beck’s biggest fan is Richard Poplawski; he murdered three Pittsburgh cops in March of 2009. Poplawski was a big enough fan that he went to the trouble to upload a video of Beck ranting about FEMA to a discussion group; he also said he had to act because “Obama was going to take away my guns.”

    Elvis, to your list I would add Scott Roeder, assassin of Dr. George Tiller (2009) and the murderer of Bill Gwatney, head of the Arkansas Democratic Party, in August of ’08. And then there’s the Huntaree militia, the IRS plane-crasher, and the unknown person who tried to assassinate Congressman Tom Perillo by cutting what he thought was Perillo’s gas line.

    Yeah, that’s really who the Republicans should be embracing.

  • http://www.masterskya.net gerawordpress

    Я суть не понял, но скоро могу сказать, что уже скоро начнете создавать партии защиты белых. и ведь придется это делать

  • apr2563

    As someone said on another blog, if black Americans were producing incitement videos or marching with guns in Virginia and speaking of threatening the government, the national guard would have been called out.
    I wish the traditional media would stop acting as those this was entertainment. It is deadly serious.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    This is, of course, a lie.
    -
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036
    -
    “Some critics charge that the new policies pursued by President Obama and the 111th Congress caused the huge federal budget deficits that the nation now faces. In fact, the tax cuts enacted under President George W. Bush, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the economic downturn together explain virtually the entire deficit over the next ten years (see Figure 1).”
    -

  • apr2563

    Evangelical arm of the Rep party made nice with Catholics over right to life. They still do not consider Catholics real Christians. When the rapture happens papists wont be included.
    .
    Another problem, Catholics are very pro immigrant. Will see how that plays out.
    .
    Listen to Rev Hagee sometime. Jews and Catholics are included to help Christianists get to the promised land. They are useful to fulfill the prophecies.

  • apr2563

    3x: Imagine a large group of black men standing in assembly at a public square. Their speakers are talking about secession, taking back their country, and they are the real Americans. The crowd is carrying inflamatory signs. Now, imagine they are armed. They are forming a militia. What would your reaction and others on the right be. Now, be honest.

  • logprof

    I’m sure the couple dozen people who watched ‘V’ for Vendetta caught any tenuous association.

    Yawn.

  • apr2563

    meow: Remember Bushes’ 2 wars and medicare part D were all done off budget. Did you complain? Was he a socialist?

  • jerikko

    Sacred: I would but my fiance is also conservative. I must have just terrible luck. Luckily for me she doesn’t care about politics so it’s not nearly as bad as your MIL or her church, although that means I can never have a fun conversation with her. It’s been my goal to secretly switch her to a liberal but so far she has avoided it.

  • jerikko

    … Have I been in another country where neocons have not run up our national debt soley by themselves? Must agree with apr2653, two unpaid wars and a large defense budget sure seem to be adding to the deficit.

  • http://fourlegsrgood.wordpress.com fourlegsgood

    you are a moron. the end.

  • http://fourlegsrgood.wordpress.com fourlegsgood

    Michael, you call that video “remarkable.” Aren’t you just a tiny bit troubled that the republican governors of our country are encouraging armed insurrection by demonizing a legitimately elected president?

    Not even a teensy-little bit?

    I can’t decide if you are just willfully stupid or if you’re completely ignorant of history.

    I’d like to remind you that not only are the republicans demonizing and urging violence towards democrats and liberals, they’ve put a target squarely on the media as well.

    Does someone have to die before you guys take this seriously? The republicans are deliberately stoking anti-government hysteria with their irresponsible rhetoric – sooner or later some crazy person is going to do something heinous. I fail to see why TIME felt they had to help the GOP get this video out. It’s not news. It’s propaganda. Shame on you.

  • stepshep

    The only thing I don’t understand is the part about the video not being embeddable? I mean, the video itself is hosted on Vimeo of all places, which allows for very easy emebdding. It literally takes 2 clicks to get an embed code. One from the rn.com to vimeo and one click on the embed button. FYI video is @ http://vimeo.com/10896301?hd=1 But I guess if that’s a conservative’s idea of keeping it only on their website we have nothing to worry about. It was definitely smart of them to not upload this video to YouTube so that it could go viral and start a “grassroots” (read astroturf) effort to rise against the tyrrany that is O. Yes, THE O. Oprah. We all know Obama is just an Oprah puppet. I mean, their names both start with the same letter.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    So, America’s republican governors are embracing their inner Beck, AZ has turned itself into a police state, bordering on apartheid, and I just read that Utah will execute a prisoner by firing squad in June. Woo hoo! America, f@ck yeah!
    .
    Any other ideas? How ’bout this?
    .
    “Someone should put together a ballet under the title Guantanamo, Guantanamo! A corps of prisoners, their ankles shackled together, thick felt mittens on their hands, muffs over their ears, black hoods over their heads, do the dances of the persecuted and the desperate. Around them, guards in olive green uniforms prance with demonic energy and glee, cattle prods and billy-clubs at the ready. They touch the prisoners with the prods and the prisoners leap; they wrestle prisoners to the ground and shove the clubs up their anuses and the prisoners go into spasms. In a corner, a man on stilts in a Donald Rumsfeld mask alternately writes at his lectern and dances ecstatic little jigs.
    .
    One day it will be done, though not by me. It may even be a hit in London and Berlin and New York. It will have absolutely no effect on the people it targets, who could not care what ballet audiences think of them.”
    .
    -J.M. Coetzee, Diary of a Bad Year
    .
    Nagging concerns about torture and atrocity in our names aside, the optics sound powerful, eh Michael?

  • http://publius2000.wordpress.com publius2000

    Mr. Scherer,

    Stop carrying the water for Marse Haley and his ilk. If you couldn’t notice all the dog-whistles on this videoclip, then please show it a colleague who is a “person of color” and let him/her explain it to you!

    To think the head of the RGA who put out this crap is touted to be a prez candidate for 2012! Way to go Gov. Barbour! This is the way to expand that “Big Tent”!

  • tommtommtomm

    Ffred at 1.2 — Wrong! Moore doesn’t make anything from the movies based on his genius. He probably did not even control film rights to this work any more than he did for Watchmen. Instead of taking the money anyway, he insists it be given to the artists. You cd check it out.

  • eclecticman1

    My British wife got a chuckle out of the GOP using Guy Fawkes as a hero as in England he is viewed as a villian. Actually, Guy Fawkes day has involved into standing around big bonfires, watching fireworks, eating hot sausages, and drinking cold beer, but necessarily in that order. Oh yes, the practice of kids making a dummy, sticking him on a chair and asking passer-byers “A penny for the guy” has virtually disappeared. I will go for the British take on Guy Fawkes.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    meowhissspit others have already pointed out the facts to you. Hopefully, the teabaggers still have some respect for reality. Another point of reality is Bill Clinton was the last president to balance the budget. You see, radical socialists like him are not opposed to balanced budgets, contrary to the lunatic tea party. In fact, balancing the budget is what we like to do in between periods when the economy is in recession, or it is overheated. Radicals think of the economy as moving in a sort of cycle and apply different communist instruments of fiscal and monetary policy, at different points in the cycle. It may be more “American” to believe one set of economic principles are good, no matter what phase the economy is in, but radicals find it more practical to adjust their policies, for different seasons. For example, once the Obama recovery is fully on track, many of we communists will then be in favor of paying down the debt.

  • kevin

    From 2001 to 2008, Democrats had one firm rule: “What was good for America was bad for Democrats, and vice-versa.”
    .
    That must be why prominent Democrats like Ted Kennedy worked closely with the Bush administration on passing No Child Left Behind, the faith-based initiative, the global AIDS initiative, etc. and why Bush got large numbers of Democratic votes in the House and Senate on everything from tax cuts to the Iraq War.
    .
    You’re projecting. It’s Republicans who say no to everything the president suggests — even when they’re originally their own ideas, like cap-and-trade, or Romneycare, or individual mandates, etc. — and who root for his failure.

  • kevin

    That’s why you are such a small part of our political system and will be totally irrelevant after November.
    .
    You do realize that Democrats hold the White House, have commanding majorities in both the House and Senate, have majorities in twice as many state legislatures as Republicans do, and have the lead in voter party identification, right?
    .
    Or are you just projecting your own feelings once again?
    .
    Conservatives: Facts be damned, my gut says different.™

  • kevin

    btw, if the governors feel so aggrieved, why don’t they introduce articles of secession?
    .
    Seriously — Haley Barbour’s Mississippi sucks in about twice as much in federal money as they pay out in taxes.
    .
    Go. Don’t let the door hit you where the Good Lord split you.

  • 53_3

    jhausten:
    .
    This gets tiring. FYI, Rush Limbaugh and your other peers, earlier this year, went on record in public to state that they wanted Obama to fail.
    .
    His failure would have meant the collapse of the economy.
    .
    So, in my estimation, after watching the GOP for so many years, it is clear that this year and last has been a big one for wanting the country to fail.
    .
    And it wasn’t us!

  • 53_3

    3xfire3:
    .
    You didn’t notice that we could not have made a movie like this?
    .
    How could we, when you don’t have enough Black Americans in your party to be cast in it!

  • 53_3
  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    I smell fear.

  • http://publius2000.wordpress.com publius2000

    “I smell fear.”

    As well you should. Hot rhetoric begets hotheads which begets…..

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    When you think of the damage Republicans would have done at this point in history, applying ideology to the great problems, rather than reason, one is almost tempted to believe there is a God. If they think following policies that have never worked anywhere is a good idea, God had no alternative but to shuttle them to the angry sidelines.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I smell fear.”
    .
    Of Timothy McVeigh and other right wing radicals.
    .
    By the time something explodes, two thirds brains will suddenly forget that Republicans are scaring the fk out of people for no reason.
    .
    I hope that when the bomb goes off, some members of the Tea Party and other right wing wingnuts are among the victims so that they can repent for inspiring such a bloodbath.
    .
    With propaganda and lies like this, a bomb will go off set by a right wing nut.
    .
    If this propaganda stops, I hope that nobody breaks a finger nail or stubs their toe, but, if there will be a right wing bomber, I want Republicans to see it as their own chickens coming home to roost.
    .
    Maybe this time, two thirds, wherever you are, it will be someplace you know and people you care about who get killed.

  • http://brookfieldmasterplan.wordpress.com/ Sharon Mahoney

    This isn’t just a clever rejoinder, jcapan. Go here to see how the mainstream press in Sweden reported Kristallnacht and then the official response–and how their approach to subsequent violence was then filtered through Goebbels’ comments, just as he had planned. Long but chilling in its parallels to the current press reaction to the RW, and well worth reading:

    http://www.nordicom.gu.se/common/publ_pdf/42_237-250.pdf

    The essence of the paper is here:

    “The propaganda minister allowed no questions from
    the journalists, and it seems as though his words made Stockholms-Tidningen’s man confused and sceptical but nevertheless all ears. Goebbels, he set forth, had undertaken to prove that the accounts of the foreign press, which were relatively concordant, had been incorrect on crucial points. The correspondent echoed Goebbels’s views that the raids had not been organised, the police had been too few but not passive, the plunders had not been masterminded from above and not a hair on a Jew’s head had been hurt. Dr.Goebbels denied all responsibility for what had occurred and described the events as a natural reaction of the people. … confronted with the manifest unconcern, Stockholms-Tidningen’s man on the spot gave the impression of having been taken in by the National Socialist dignitary, subsequently seeing his task as none other than relating the Nazi story. …

    After this performance, the Swedish journalist witnessed to his own frustration that when the Nazi chieftain had had his say, he turned his back on the international press corps and left. There were quite a few questions one would have wished to put to him,
    the journalist ruminated. As it was, one could only silently give him the space for his viewpoint that he had asked for.”

    Sounds like our own Washington press corps “reporting” on Republican response to the violence Republican politicians and mouthpieces themselves have formented.

  • 3xfire3

    sfheath,
    .
    Too logical of a post.
    .
    Yes the November reference is about the election but it helps make the story negative towards the Republicans if it’s make it about Fawkes.
    .
    This allows Michael to push his political agenda and that of his bosses. Truth is not important when
    the end justifies the means.
    .
    The hate directed at GWB and his administration was so far over the top, that this video in comparison is very mild. But that was OK because Liberals believed so strongly that Bush was so wrong in his policies that thier hate was justified.

  • 3xfire3

    Why do all you Liberal nut cases always bring race into everything.

    You are the very people who have re-introduces slavery into the black community. Your policies over the last 40 years have returned 70% of our black citizens to slavery.

  • http://ncbeekeeper.wordpress.com ncbeekeeper

    Time–you folks need to check your text before you post it:

    “This time, President Obama plays the roll of King James”

    Didn’t know either one of them was something you’d eat with dinner. The correct word is “role.” You need to get beyond using spell-checking to vet your articles.

  • jerikko

    I have to agree with Patrick. I don’t see how this appeals to anyone but right wing conservatives and offers a large scale call for violence against government. When will the GOP stop talking out of both sides of their mouth: they stoke the right wingers into a frenzy with lies and exaggeration but then say they just want to “vote them out in November”.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Wow Pee Ess, it sounds as though you genuinely wish this tragedy upon me and mine. Your true colors are showing more and more as time goes by. But I think anyone with even an ounce of intelligence had you pegged long ago.

  • http://ak4mc.us/2c/ McGehee

    Scherer, you’re an idiot. November is when the elections are.

  • jerikko

    I found it interesting that Newt converted to Catholicism, almost guaranteeing he will not get the GOP nomination over an evangelical Protestant. Although I can’t see Mitt getting the popular vote as a Mormon either.

  • 53_3

    3xfire3:
    .
    Your commentary is patently ignorant. You know nothing whatsoever about the Black community!
    .
    If you are so damned certain of yourself, then why do only 3% of Black Americans identify with your movement?
    .
    Explain yourself!

  • 53_3

    2/3rds:
    .
    I don’t think anyone smells fear here. I think what people smell here is the seeds of terrorism and, of course, more GOP dogwhistle demonization.
    .
    In other words, filth like you

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “But I think anyone with even an ounce of intelligence had you pegged long ago.”
    .
    LOL.
    .
    I’m joining the very Republican dominated NYPD auxiliary.
    .
    The regular NYPD will have guns and I will not.
    .
    I’m more like the bystander who will come out of the subway station, my car, or wherever and see if I can do something useful like drag an injured person to safety, etc, etc.
    .
    I may learn more about first aid in the auxiliary.
    .
    If it happens in New York, however, the odds are that Democrats will get hit.
    .
    You’d laugh at that, two thirds brain. We already know that liberals dying makes you giggle like a little girl.
    .
    If you were there I’d drag your sorry butt out of the rumble, too, but don’t blame Democrats when it happens.

  • 53_3

    I was always under the impression that November 4 was election day. Did I miss something?
    .
    I hope I didn’t!
    .
    After all, the context of the 2008 tactics of the GOP in spreading the rumor that election day was the day after (on the 5th), would set the stage for some really spectacular irony this time around:
    .
    These crackheads “remembering” November, and connecting it with Guy Fawkes Day, show up at the polls on the 5th, only to find them closed already!
    .
    It would be one of those “Ten Commandments”* moments.
    .
    “…”by their own hand, they shall suffer…”

  • annademo01

    I’ve watched this video several times and I don’t see any violence in it. The people claiming to see violence in it must have violence in their own minds. Like the people who claim that any opposition to Obama’s policies is a sign of racism. I think it is dissent. Last time I looked, even Hillary Clinton said dissent was OK, that it was OK to debate and disgree with this administration or any administration:

  • 53_3

    I agree with you on this particular video, however, you confuse the actions of some of your peers with legitimate dissent.
    .
    There is a difference, and having watched the political scene for 40 years, I think I have a very good grip on what is, and what isn’t racism.
    .
    I’ve said it many, many, many times:
    .
    If you want average citizens to abandon the current perception of conservatives as hateful and intolerant, then it is your responsibility to get your peers to STFU!
    .
    Debate and dissent can be conducted without hate, threats, demonization, or the purveyance of fear!

  • 53_3

    Patrick:
    .
    2/3rds has no worries about that.
    .
    To him, it’s a matter of having to “break a few eggs” in order to bake a cake.
    .
    He is ensconced within a group that will never be anywhere near any potential right wing terrorist is likely to strike.
    .
    Hypothetically speaking, though, if I ran into him, (and I don’t live in NY), and he mouthed off to me, you might just have to drag his sorry arse off the subway tracks where I threw him.
    .
    Unfortunately, for me, I doubt if I will ever have the pleasure!

  • 53_3

    allthings:
    .
    You would send us more GOP crackpots?
    .
    We already have enough, thank you…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Democrats used facts and came to the conclusion that there was no reason to go into Iraq. This causes Democrats to dislike the Bush Administration.
    .
    The Tea Party created stories about death panels, 16,500 armed IRS agents, health monitors (that was from JBaustin, I do not know where he got it from), tax increases, Nazis, Communists, that this was unconstitutional…
    .
    Democrats made compromises with W and some of them were applauded by Democratic voters.
    .
    Republicans who agree with Obama are being called RINO.
    .
    Democrats noticed that, especially in two wars, taxes to pay as you go needed to go up instead of down. This made us dislike Bush dumping a war of aggression’s price tag on generations to come.
    .
    Republicans ignored economics and government policy of the past eighty years and opposed a stimulus package very similar to others for no known reason and called it Communism, Nazi… etc, etc.
    .
    Democrats were appalled at how W handled Katrina. This made us dislike Bush more.
    .
    Obama is proposing financial reform and is being attacked for no known reason.
    .
    All in all, Obama is doing the same thing as many Republican presidents had done and continuing no child left behind from Bush. So, there isn’t much to get too excited about. So why is there alarm like no time before since the Civil War?
    .
    Maybe it is because Obama isn’t white or maybe it is because Republicans love their ideology much more than they love America and want Obama to fail as Jbaustin does.
    .
    I see a large difference between the two.
    .
    If they were protesting using actual facts, then I have no idea how they could have a following, but, it would be much less disturbing.
    .
    The video is named after the attempted bombing of the English Parliament. How much more clear do you want it to be?

  • annademo01

    53_3: Re: hate, threats, demonization, or the purveyance of fear, the only place I see that stuff is on the extreme left. I’ve been to several TEA Party events in the last year, and every one of them has been peaceful, respectful, and neat (we all clean up after ourselves). I see Republicans, yes, but I also see Democrats, Independents, and Libertarians. I see Whites, yes, but I also see Blacks and Hispanics and Asians. I see a microcosm of America, not what is portrayed in the Lamestream media.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Yeah patsy, i’d laugh, the same way I laughed when the planes hit the towers on 9/11. That was in New York also, and I daresay a huge number of the victims were democrats. I considered that an attack on our country, and felt the anger, and sorrow of the rest of world/country.
    .
    You’re a sick individual patsy, in one breath you wish death and tragedy on me and those I care for, and in the other breath you accuse me of the same. I guess that’s why the only acnowledgement and agreement you get is from the likes -53, and we all know what a hateful dimwit he is. Birds of a feather I guess….

  • 53_3

    I’ve heard people say that too. annademo01, but that isn’t the problem.
    .
    The problem is the videos like the one MS put up. I could past a million others that have gotten wide coverage in the media, all media.
    .
    The problem is not that there are no Tea Party members who don’t do those things, the problem is that your peers, as exemplified by that video continue to work against your aim to have the Tea Party seen in a kinder light.
    .
    It is not our fault you and your fellow members are seen that way.
    .
    Watch that video, then, come back and tell me I’m wrong!

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    OOOOoooo -53! You’re such a he-man!

  • jymallyn

    “… you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”

    Unless they are Republicans or ConservaNuts.

    After 40 years of being a Republican, I have come to the conclusion that the Republican Party has done more harm to our country in the last 9 years than the Communist Party ever did.

    Enron-Cheney brought us financial and energy disasters.
    Halliburton-Cheney brought us wars that were total shams and disasters even after we “won” them.
    Alan Greenspan became “The fool on the hill” for federal financial responsibility and the castration of the SEC.

    Republicans and Libertarians and other Conservanuts fail to realize that we have a government to protect us and to make sure that there is rationality in and responsibility for actions.

    Responsibility is NOT a “Liberal” view. It is essential. Unfortunately, the Republicans and Libertarians and other Conservanuts are making it seem that only “Liberal” are responsible and rational.

    The only good news is that Guy Fawkes FAILED and was hung for sedition. Hopefully a similar but less violent fate will happen to our current seditionists.

  • 3xfire3

    53-3,
    .
    How can you preach against hate when it is you who preaches more hate then anyone else on this Blog.
    .
    You try to bring every conversation into a race situation, inferring that anyone disagreeing with President Obama’s policies must be a racist.
    .
    You continually use personal attacks and demonize anyone who doesn’t share your very Liberal political views.
    .
    I’m curious, who appointed you as the White Spokesperson for our black citizens?

  • annademo01

    patricksartor, you are incorrect. The death panel exists, and it was authorized in the 2009 stimulus bill Obama signed. It is millions of dollars to the NAS to conduct comparative effectiveness research in healthcare, and the equivalent agency in the British National Health Service is called NICE; the agency that has been not so nice to cancer patients by refusing to pay for life-saving cancer treatments, because they cost too much, even when the patients were willing to pay for it themselves. The death panel part of the recently signed health care legislation is a continuation of that comparative effectiveness research concept, and a govenrment agency will someday decide whether you deserve a particular healthcare intervention or not. Read Ezekiel Emanuel’s January 2009 article that some lives are more worthy than others. He is Obama’s healthcare advisor (and Rahm Emanuel’s brother). He wote that people under 14 and over 40 don’t deserve any government provided healthcare, because they either have nothing to contribute or have already contributed everything they can, so it’s OK to let them die via rationed healthcare. Read his work. http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf

    And as for 16,500 armed IRS agents, well, see also the new healthcare law. They are in there to go after people who don’t want to pay for a health insurance policy. They will garnish your wages or keep your tax refund to force you to pay up. The new law was a boon to health insurance companies. Didn’t Obama say they were the enemy?

  • annademo01

    53_3: I did and you are (wrong).
    jymallyn: you couldn’t possibly be a former Republican; this is clear from your rant.

  • 53_3

    3xfire3:
    .
    Your statement on the previous page was, and is patently ignorant.
    .
    The reason why, and if you’ve noticed, I’ve only done it when it’s there (with freeinpa and rusty, and yourself included).
    .
    I am married to a Black woman, my kids share a Black heritage, and I’ve lived in the Black community for 40 years.
    .
    I have not been appointed the spokesman of anyone, however, you and your peers continually, by ignorant statements such as yours on the previous page, keep dropping these little nuggets everywhere.
    .
    So I’m calling you on it.

  • annademo01

    Projection: when you say somebody else has certain attributes that you, actually, have:
    http://www.tobytoons.com/td/cartoon/20100423/projection-dc-style.html

  • 3xfire3

    53-3,
    .
    You say I don’t know anything about the black community.
    .
    My immediate family is an all American family. It consists of white, black, bi-racial, and Hispanic members. My son-in-law is black. I have 3 beautiful bi-racial granddaughters. I have black in-laws.
    .
    I have many close friend who are black and Hispanic. They go to the same church I do.
    .
    We see each other as Americans not as black, brown or white. Color has no relevance to our relationships.
    .
    Why do you bring race into everything?

  • 53_3
  • 53_3

    I don’t thinks so. I rest my case. So far, not one legitimate rebuttal of my commentary yet.
    .
    See 42.1. I call ‘em as I see ‘em. Too bad you can’t do the same.
    .
    Good luck trying to fly into hurricane force winds…

  • 53_3

    It’s a pleasure I am sorry to say I won’t experience. Too bad for me, I guess…

  • 53_3

    “You are the very people who have re-introduces slavery into the black community. Your policies over the last 40 years have returned 70% of our black citizens to slavery.”
    .
    Also, when I see a dogwhistle chorus like the ridiculous propaganda video MS posted, I call ‘em as I see them.
    .
    As for the fact that you have people in your area that are not white, that doesn’t mean anything at all. After all, all one has to do is look at your statement above for the reason I called you on it.
    .
    I still do!
    .
    3xfire3, explain your comment!

  • 53_3

    3xfire3:
    .
    Explain your comment at 23.3!

  • 3xfire3

    53-3,
    .
    Calling me out on what? That your a racist and I’m not?
    .
    People like you promote racism in our country.
    .
    People are people and if people like you would stop stirring the pot we would all get along just fine.
    .
    I’m sure you love your bi-racial children as much as I love my bi-racial grandchildren.
    .
    Would it not be better if we stopped trying to find racism in everything around us? Racism in reality in a small part of our culture today. That’s why over 40% of our black citizens, who have left the inter cities, have achieved a middle class or above standard of living.
    .
    Blacks are advancing in every profession at a rapid rate. Education is the answer for both poor whites and poor blacks.
    .
    The best thing Conservatives and Liberals can do for the poor is to work together to improve our education process which really sucks in our inter cities as well as in many of our poor rural areas.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “One other note, RGA message wizards have intentionally not circulated this video on YouTube or made an embed version of it publicly available. (Swampland asked for, and was granted, special dispensation.) They want people to view it on their site,”
    .
    He communicated with the producers, so, of course it was discussed with them that this is a reference to Guy Fawkes.
    .
    “The hate directed at GWB and his administration was so far over the top, that this video in comparison is very mild.
    .
    Please, send us one of those videos.
    .
    I vividly recall thousands of remarks about Bush being dumb and having nobody’s interest at heart besides the very wealthy and powerful, but nothing about trying to blow him up.
    .
    Please correct us promptly or have us believe that you are full of

  • 3xfire3

    I agree.

  • annademo01

    The projection comment was directed at someone else, but if the shoe fits, I suppose, judging from your sources (Huffington Post)? I looked at the signs in one of your links and except for two that I thought were in poor taste, the rest were TAME compared to the vile, hateful and intolerant signs held by all sorts of protesters during the Bush years (e.g., Moveon, ANSWER, Not In Our Name) and by Islamists at their Danish cartoon protest rallies.

  • annademo01

    To paraphrase Tina Fey playing Sarah Palin, I can see November from my house!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Two thirds brain,
    .
    Do you know how to read?
    .
    “..I hope that nobody breaks a finger nail or stubs their toe..”
    .
    “You’re a sick individual patsy, in one breath you wish death and tragedy on me and those I care for, and in the other breath you accuse me of the same.”
    .
    You are the one projecting.
    .
    Also, with adrenaline, unless you are unusually fat, it doesn’t take a huge amount of strength to drag a person out of harm’s way.
    .
    I have presumed you are not unusually fat and, therefore, not needing a “he man” to pull around.
    .
    If you are balding and fat… I hope you have a wife who loves you. Fat, bald and incredibly stupid. You must have a wonderful wife to put up with you.

  • annademo01

    I’m with 3xfire3 on this one (comment 39.7).

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The best thing Conservatives and Liberals can do for the poor is to work together to improve our education process which really sucks in our inter cities as well as in many of our poor rural areas.”
    .
    It takes money – yes TAX MONEY to improve schools.
    .
    You guys are the ones crying murder if the wealthiest one half of one percent of Americans gets a tax increase and the same ones who shout “Big government takeover” when the federal government sending money to school systems.
    .
    You are against the means to a better education system.
    .
    This is why you are addressed as if you have Alzheimer’s disease.
    .
    I want a new Mercedes, but want to pay $10,000. I then have to choose, do I want to pay more or do I want to get another car?
    .
    You want good schools but you want to slash and burn budgets for tax cuts.
    .
    Make a real choice: pay more or accept that economy brand budgets get you and economy brand education and say that you do not care about anybody besides yourself.
    .
    Don’t go off to never never land on us and start talking about attracting teachers by putting smiley faces on their paychecks. Pay enough so that they will not choose other professions over teaching.

  • annademo01

    If you go to the cbpp.org website and look at their Board of Directors, it becomes quite clear on which side of the fence they sit (very left), and that explains their research conclusions. As somebody famous once said (Truman, maybe), there are lies, dam lies and statistics. As anybody who knows how to conduct and interpret research must admit, you can construct research and interpret data any way you wish, depending on how you craft your research plan and analysis.

  • newfreedomblog

    This video is so powerful, and after watching it I fully understand the fear that is being expressed here by the liberal loons but disguised as faux outrage about “racism”.
    .
    This video captures exactly why there are so many angry Americans, and why the populist sentiment is to “throw the bums out of office” is ringing so true today.
    .
    Couple this video with the non-economic strategy of the Obama Administration to forgo any economic strategies in favor of pushing through his liberal / socialist agenda, and people are left with anger. Angry because after almost 2 years now they still do not have a job. After more than a trillion tax dollars have been spent on bailouts, buyouts, bribes and the like by Obama, the economy is no better off for the average unemployed American.
    .
    While the likes of “IQ53″, the self-professed racist hunter, wants to make it all out to be some racial motive, the video simply shows us the faces and voices which happen to be black but are the Chairmen of the various Democratically controlled House of Representatives. They are the leaders in the Democratically controlled House. They have pushed forward Barack Obama’s political agenda.
    .
    Perhaps instead of showing Al Sharpton’s gaffe of saying basically “anyone who voted for Obama and didn’t think his agenda would be socialist is stupid”, they could have used the video of Maxine Waters also professing her socialist leanings as well. Or, more recently Bertha Lewis also saying she is favorable to socialism as well. Would that have made any difference?
    .
    Maybe the real question is why are all of these government and community leaders calling for the socialism of America? Are they being used by the white Democrat Party leaders? Their Democratic “friends”? Have they been duped into saying these things, or do they truly believe that Socialism is the way our government should be structured? Or, are they being used again as they have been in the past by their so-called white Democratic friends? Is that why we see so much anger here in the swamp against this video? That this is so evident?

  • allthingsinaname

    Well I was thinking of the Statue of Liberty at the time, and what it means to be an American to the GOP.
    >
    A little satire never hurts.
    >
    Thank you very much.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    One of my relatives did graduate research at that organization years ago called the National Institute of Health.
    .
    It is not new.
    .
    It goes back to 1887.
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institutes_of_Health
    .

    They are debating what research to do and how to cost effectively save lives.
    .
    That is not to say that when there is a cure already existing that anybody would be denied it.
    .
    “They will garnish your wages or keep your tax refund to force you to pay up.”
    .
    See the Swamp about that. It is $695 or 2.5% of your income. Whatever is higher.
    .
    Also, it is not given back to you if you do not have insurance, so, if anybody is armed, it would be the security preventing angry nuts wanting their 2.5% tax back bringing in guns.
    .
    No new people needed.
    .
    “Didn’t Obama say they were the enemy?”
    .
    If you are an Al Qada Terrorist, perhaps. He has been bending over backwards and doing gymnastics to get even one Republican to vote with him and you guys don’t do anything besides make up stupid sht.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    annademo
    .
    You are even mimicking how I brought up the term “projection”.
    .
    Isn’t that cute?
    .
    You’re imitating liberals so that you can hope to win debates.
    .
    Having facts on your side really does the job for you.
    .
    If you make up sht and call it facts, you will loose the debate.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    That’s because they are talking about Social Democrats, not Marxist Socialists.
    .
    Bernie Sanders is a classic example of a Social Democrat:
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
    .
    Of course when hear the world “socialist” you crap in your pants since you do not know what a social democrat is. You can’t figure out if it is a communist or a Democrat who does to a lot of parties.
    .
    We’ll teach someday.

  • 53_3

    the chpp website is reinforced by, and echoes, the wiki article.
    .
    Now, we all know about wiki, so, follow the links on the references page!
    .
    Now I don’t think you will be able to divert attention from them, will you?

  • annademo01

    Actually, according to your own Wiki post, patrick, and Sanders himself, he is a Democratic Socialist. Please explain what is is the difference between a Democratic Socialist and a Marxist Socialist? Does that remind anyone of this Democratic Socialist party?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_party

  • xargaw

    Can anyone remember when being elected to serve the people was a high honor and those officials took their responsibility seriously? Now we have a bunch of grown men acting like idiots on the grammer school playground. Expell them all and elect some adults that realize we have real problems that need mature discernment. The GOP has become an embarrassment to thinking people over fifteen.

  • 53_3

    Oh, sh!t Patrick!
    .
    You got me!
    .
    I’m bald, fat (well, a little, anyway!), and white!
    .
    But I know where you are going with this, so as far as I’m concerned, 2/3rds is the kind of guy who would shoot first and ask questions later.
    .
    I’ve been taught well by my dad, however.
    .
    Anyway, if you do manage to get his goat, would you mind if I were to chaw off an appendage or two?

  • annademo01

    My point here is that anybody who is proud of being called a Socialist or who thinks Socialism is a good thing, is running with some pretty despicable company. Socialists, Communists, Marxists and their other totalitarian brethren are responsible for the systematic execution of hundreds of millions of people all over the world. Theirs is an ideology of failure and violence and they are in control of our public schools. No wonder our youth are so dumb.

  • annademo01

    47.3, but I repeat myself….

  • 3xfire3

    Patrick,
    .
    “It takes Money” Tax money.
    .
    Wrong. That is a small part of the solution. Schools in poor areas run for the benefit of the teachers and their unions, rather then for the students, are the biggest detriments to improving schools.
    .
    More money alone does nothing to improve these schools. If you would be honest with yourself you would admit this is true.
    .
    Money alone has destroyed our inner city communities and schools.

  • newfreedomblog

    Oh I am sure Mr Sartor, the Socialist denier, can give a very good explanation of what is and is not “socialist”.
    .
    Oh and be careful, annadem, Mr Sartor tends to become violence when he is pinned up against the wall and challenged. You may end up in one of his “crosshairs”, as he suggested not too long ago he would do to me and others on this site who vehemently disagree with his unfounded opinions.
    .
    As I love to quote from Ghandi;

    “First they will ignore you, then they will laugh at you, then they will fight you, then you WIN!!”

    .
    Now we can add to that list, “then they will call you a racist….”

  • 53_3

    I see!
    .
    Ok, let’s serve ‘em up!
    .
    If I were a racist, which I’m obviously not, having lived in the Black community for 40 years, and am in good standing, don’t you think I would have heard about it by now? I mean, you and annadem01 are not exactly whom I would look to on this subject, given your limited knowledge!
    .
    As far as what 3xfire3 commented on, here is some facts for you to peruse:
    .
    1. The Black community is about 40 to 50 percent conservative.
    .
    2. The Black community is the least likely demographic to identify with your “cause” (believe me, it’s not conservatism…). This is apparent in every poll ever conducted!
    .
    3. 70% of the Black community is not in slavery. None are enslaved, but they do have votes!
    .
    Ok, now, given these facts, it’s time for you to pick up the pieces and try to justify the comment 3xfire3 made at 23.3.
    .
    Here are questions for you to answer:
    a. Identify the “70%” of Black Americans you commented on.
    .
    b. Given that (1) is true, tell me how you can reconcile that with fact (2)!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I see your link is about Nazis.
    .
    Did you notice that Sanders is Jewish?
    .
    Social Democrats/Democratic Socialists subscribe to the basic theory that since markets are prone to failure, people who are elected democratically should, if a consumers, workers and the overall economy will do better for doing so, support making it, instead, a government service such as Amtrak or a national health care system.
    .
    Another agenda is free childcare for pre-schoolers and after school for working parents as every single industrialized country in the world has outside of the United States. Also, public funding for higher education.
    .
    Education, also, helps prevent ignorant revolutionaries dressed like George Washington talking about blowing up congress. So, there are many, additional benefits.
    .
    Nazis come from the right as Chris Rock explains:
    .

    .
    Being a “real German” was what Nazis were about.

  • 53_3

    Well, rusty, don’t you remember your racist rant a year ago about the Sleeping White Giant?
    .
    I do…

  • 53_3

    Annadem01, Rusty, and 3xfire3:
    .
    Address directly without diversion the facts in comment 44.2!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    That would be 2010.
    .
    There was a time when there was a clown in the WH from 2001 until 2009.
    .
    That guy was funny, but, he was sad and pathetic.
    .
    He had a congress of his own party which passed the least legislation in history.
    .
    Thankfully we are back to people who serve with pride and dignity and love the government and for what it can do to serve America.
    .
    Those clowns just released a video since they are dumb enough to think that they are going to take over.

  • 53_3

    Annadem01, Rusty, and 3xfire3:
    .
    Address directly without diversion the links in comment 42.3.
    .
    Do not stall or divert.

  • 53_3

    42.1

  • 53_3

    What is interesting here is this:
    .
    All three of these loonies are willing to present their opinions, which they are, of course, entitled to.
    .
    The interesting bit is that none of them are able to support their opinions by responding to specific requests at 44, 49, and 50.
    .
    As far as they are concerned, I don’t even care about their opinions.
    .
    All I care about is facts. And they don’t have any!

  • annademo01

    Hey 53_3, you obviously have never lived in the ghetto (excuse me, the inner city). I have and that is as close to slavery as I can think of. And it is all due to the Democrat Great Society, which did more to destroy the Black family and its prospects for economic and social success as anything else I’ve ever witnessed. Just because 90% of Blacks vote Democrat doesn’t mean that’s a smart or wise choice.

  • 53_3

    Oh, and 3xfire3:
    .
    One more foot up your arse for spreading stupidity:
    .
    In actuality, racism is a lot less of a problem nowadays. That’s not what I’ve been persuing here. I am persuing the issue of endemic, entrenched racism in the GOP and the use of racial hatred for political purposes.
    .
    Now, you and your idiot friends can insult me till the cows come home, or whatever, but, the fact is, the Black community sees things in a far, far, far different light than you do. And they ought to know!
    .
    After all, if you want to know about Italy, wouldn’t you ask an Italian?
    .
    Draw the line…

  • annademo01

    Hey newfreedomblog, do you notice how when the left gets mad, they start using bold font (and bold italics now, for even more effect)? And they get their history lessons from Chris Rock? Not surprising. And how even if you provide proof of what you say, they ignore it and try to divert your attention to something else?

  • 53_3

    Wha? Huh?
    .
    What in hell are you talking about? I’ve never lived in a ghetto?
    .
    Wow.
    .
    “Just because 90% of Blacks vote Democrat doesn’t mean that’s a smart or wise choice.”
    .
    So, since you know so much about the Black community, why would they make a choice like that, eh??????
    .
    crocodile, surfacing, nose and teeth showing

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3xfire3,
    .
    This is why I really doubt you are ever managed a lemonade stand rather than a business.
    .
    Use some imagination.
    .
    You’ve a student loan for $90,000 backed by your mother and father’s house. You pay up or they are in big trouble.
    .
    Interest will be postponed if you go to graduate school for a year and you can earn more.
    .
    So, you can get master’s education or an MBA.
    .
    Unionized teachers make $60,000 to $70,000 per year.
    .
    MBAs break $100,000 a year most years.
    .
    So, there are two reasons to become a teacher:
    .
    1) You are an idealist.
    .
    2) You couldn’t get into an MBA or other graduate school program.
    .
    The idealists are great but often run like hell from inner city schools and never go near small impoverished towns at all in their careers.
    .
    So, who do the poor school systems get?
    .
    They get the leftovers who couldn’t make money anywhere else.
    .
    Your credibility is going down the toilet.

  • 53_3

    You mean like the facts that I’ve pointed out in 44, 49, and 50?
    .
    It’s truly funny! Facts as diversions! I’ve heard everything now…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Annademo,
    .
    I was a student at Harvard.
    .
    I used Chris Rock because I couldn’t find a video with sock puppets down at your level.

  • 53_3

    A little history, plus a fact or two:
    .
    The conditions of Black Americans in the inner city is a legacy of several different things, none having to do with the “Great Society”
    .
    1. The wartime (WWII) and postwar emigration from the South for jobs. My wife’s family is one example of such! They settled in those districts that were later to become “ghettos”.
    .
    2. Redlining and other types of racially motivated methods of keeping Black Americans isolated there. I was red-lined in 1992, by Mortgage Masters in Kent, WA in 1992. Luckily, I had enough money to fix that problem…
    .
    3. The refusal to employ Black Americans (a big problem still today).
    .
    4. Only a small percentage of Black Americans today live in ghettos.

  • 53_3

    You know what is interesting?
    .
    They get their “history” from the likes of Rush Limbaugh!
    .
    Now, I ask you, if you wanted to know about the Black community, would you ask:
    .
    1. Rush Limbaugh
    2. Chris Rock
    .
    I know, I know! This is too easy, Patrick!
    .
    But I don’t think they get it yet…

  • 53_3

    annedemo01:
    .
    I’m going to kindly suggest that you drop this and maybe take a step back, with you, together with Rusty and 3xfire3, and see what’s actually in the mirror.
    .
    If the past 80 comments haven’t accomplished it, perhaps that will.
    .
    Just FYI, I’m not in the least interested in trying to get any of you three to change your mind on the issues that have been discussed, however, I do think it is important that your comments be countered with facts, and in that, we have been extremely successful.
    .
    None of you have been able to counter any of the issues, facts, and questions here and I do not wonder why.
    .
    Perhaps, when you are planning a trip to a foreign country, and need to know about that country, it’s cultures, and what issues are important, you’ll ask someone who actually lives there!
    .
    And, maybe, just maybe, you’ll remember this…

  • 53_3

    Oh, annedeomo01:
    .
    You are confused. That isn’t anger. CAPS are anger.
    .
    Italics I use when leading into or out of important points, or something of significance. The bold italics are for emphasizing a point of fact!

  • 53_3

    I’m glad that you agree with me, 3xfire3.
    .
    I have literally hundreds of such links. All real.
    .
    Yew can even wach the viddys!

  • 53_3

    annademo01:
    .
    “Just because 90% of Blacks vote Democrat doesn’t mean that’s a smart or wise choice.”
    .
    Maybe, just maybe, annandemo01, given that some 40 to 50 percent of the Black community is conservative by nature, they see something that you, Rusty, Freeinpa, and 3xfire3 refuse to acknowledge.
    .
    My own opinion is that they are much smarter than you give them credit for..

  • 53_3

    “And how even if you provide proof of what you say, they ignore it…”
    .
    What facts?
    .
    None of you have posted anything factual on this issue!
    .
    If I missed anything, then, by all means, please show me where!

  • 53_3

    I was satirizing your satire!

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    53_3
    .
    We both know that, for a conservative, when facts and their world view collide, they take their world view and ignore all facts.
    .
    Jbaustin said that he wanted Obama to fail. That is, not just to fail at passing legislation, but, he wished for the outcome of anything passed to be a failure.
    .
    During the Bush years, I just kept on hoping that the right wing policies of a total idiot was, for some unknown reason, going to work despite the facts since I live in the US. All except one of my relatives (who is in Canada) lives in the US. Everybody I know is in the US.
    .
    What conservatives hate the most, and I think this was your quote, is that reality has a liberal bias.
    .
    BTW: I just told doctor Earl Tea Grey to take “personal responsibility” for why he built up huge debts during his residency. “Personal responsibility” works great when it is about other people, but, when used in a context of asking a conservative to live on a small income, etc, etc, it is tyranny.
    .
    He says he is upset enough not to post anymore.
    .
    Good. He can make unreasonable and illogical statements to people who don’t like reality on conservative blog.

  • 53_3

    Patrick:
    .
    To tell you the truth, these debates on race are tiresome and not in the least fun, but sometime, one just has to do what one has to do.
    .
    I’ve noticed that my challenges to their broadcast world view are still empty, and I think that they just don’t have anything to really rebut with. They can’t quote their sources without incriminating themselves*, and I think, in lieu of any reasonable debate, they just toss bombs and claim that I threw them. What ridiculousness!
    .
    As for the “reality has a liberal bias” quote, I think I was echoing another swampcritter. It isn’t mine. I sprouted my four legs too late!
    .
    If you noticed, there are other conservatives whom I don’t go after too much, like appollyon07, or Exiled, and a few others, but they do not practice this sort of stuff. I think the only time I’ve pitched into them is when they complain about how conservatives are perceived, and as I’ve said before, it’s their own fault, not ours. This goes right down the same responsibility alley that you tried to get earljr1 walk down.
    .
    They just don’t want to hear it…
    .
    *Newfreedomblog had a bad habit of posting Stormfront stuff as proof. He has lost many arguments to me over the years.

  • newfreedomblog

    Yes, annademo01. Poor IQ53 as I like to call him feigns faux outrage over the treatment of black folk, when the vast majority of blacks will tell you outright they are better off today than they have ever been in this country. But, in order to keep up with the racial stress within this country they continually beat that racial drum.
    .
    You see in IQ53′s world it is your fault and my fault for slavery. We are at fault because of the segregation which occurred from the time of slavery until the 1960′s when Rev Martin Luther King, Jr looked at his black friends and family and said “No more”. They peacefully protested, and America finally saw on the TV the hate which people at that time had for Black Americans.
    .
    But what IQ53 will NOT acknowledge is how Black America has been used since that time. Used by their “friends” in the Democratic Party, their so-called “liberal liberators”. I ask, what has the social justice programs such as welfare since the 1960′s brought to the vast majority of blacks in America? It has brought continued segregation and oppression. Those blacks who have worked themselves out from the grips of poverty will tell you how oppressive our social justice welfare programs have held them back all of these years. They have been held back to be dependent upon our government by the Democrats so that the Democrats can continue to count on their votes.
    .
    You see IQ53 will never see a day when he believes most Americans will ever be non-racist in his eyes. He wants to believe in the Democratic lie being told to him and alot of his Americans friends. The unfortunate thing is I do not have anything to attone for, nor do any of my relatives. Nor does anyone who I associate myself with. I have always treated everyone the same no matter what they look like. I will however challenge out and out sensationalism, and someone like IQ53 who has this perverted need to continue shouting “racist” for every instance he reads or hears despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

  • 53_3

    Well, Rusty, why don’t you, instead of insulting me*, which isn’t really a problem, address the issues raised at 44, 49 and 50?
    .
    You see, that way, you could expose me for what you think I am!
    .
    How about it?
    .
    *Actually, my skin is thick enough. If you want to insult me, go ahead, just remember to address those issues and we’ll be square!

  • Darleen Click

    funny, I got the embed code at Vimeo and have it up at proteinwisdom-dot-com

    I gotta say, Scherer, this really is a wildass attempt at trying to SHUT UP those that dare to dissent from Obamacrats’ statist policies, even using clips of their own words.

    Who knew that when the Founding Fathers set the election day in 1792 THEY were secretly honoring Guy Fawkes! Heh.

  • annademo01

    Well, here are some of your answers, 53. Item 44 was not directed at me so of course, I’m not going to answer it. Done.
    Item 42.1 was a list of web links. HuffPo is a left-wing rant site, so I don’t pay any attention to it, just as I don’t pay any attention to any rant site, regardless of poilitical persuasion. I use Wiki when it is accurate, so what’s your point? Bob Barr was a Democrat first, then became a Republican and is now a Libertarian. What’s your point? And I am an immigrant and O’Reilly doesn’t speak for me, so again what’s your point? And the alleged racial slur event attributed to TEA Partiers has been debunked; it never happened. Given that there were hundreds, if not thousands of video cameras and phones in the immediate area and there is not one piece of audio-visual evidence of any Black person being slurred at by anyone, again I say, what’s your point?

  • annademo01

    Oh, 53, there is one fact I want to present. I travel all over the country, and in every major city I have visited, the inner cities (the ghettoes) are still predominantly Black. Not sure where you live, but I have been to enough cities to know that there are more Black people living in ghettoes than any other race. So you may be right that only a small percentage of Black Americans today live in ghettos (most of them have moved into the middle and upper classes of this – in your estimation – very racist nation), but that doesn’t mean I’m wrong when I say that most ghetto-dwellers are Black. See for example, Detroit, South Central LA, Newark, NJ and many others.

  • annademo01

    “You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.”
    Abraham Lincoln

  • rhorto01

    Wow. How stupid is this?

    1) What percentage of Americans could even properly identify Guy Fawkes?

    2) Gee, I bet no one has ever rhymed “remember” with “November” before in a political ad. /eyeroll

    And I love how these commentators, who go into violent contortions to demonize their political opponents, going as far as to declare Republicans un-American (in various ways), are somehow supposed to represent the “mainstream.” Last time I checked, people who actually believed in democracy allowed for differences in opinion and could live in a multiparty society. You folks obviously hate the very idea of people you disagree with even being allowed to vote. How Stalinist of you.

    Do you have a locale picked out for the gulags already?

  • sfheath

    patricksartor, sure, he got permission to embed the video. That isn’t definitive proof that he verified the intended allusion with the producers. Other than the rhyme of the website the only possible internal allusion to V for Vendetta is the red V in the end logo. That could just be an accident. I would just like to know for certain whether or not the RGA intended to identify Pres. Obama with a tyrannical dictatorship and imply a virtue to violence against this administration.

    3xfire: “The hate directed at GWB and his administration was so far over the top, that this video in comparison is very mild.” On the contrary, as someone who was as anti-Bush as they come, I can tell you that no one advocated armed rebellion against the elected administration of the United States. We called for an end to the Iraq war, we called for impeachment, but we never – NEVER – suggested someone should assassinate our political leaders or blow up the White House. I take great offense to your false equivalency.

  • kevin

    hate, threats, demonization, or the purveyance of fear, the only place I see that stuff is on the extreme left.
    .
    Really? You should ask your cable company to start carrying this obscure channel called Fox News. I believe their evening line-up is titled Demonization Time with Neil Cavuto, The O’Reilly Fear Factor, and The Glenn Beck Hatepalooza.

  • kevin

    And as for 16,500 armed IRS agents, well, see also the new healthcare law. They are in there to go after people who don’t want to pay for a health insurance policy.
    .
    No. They are not in there.
    .
    They are nowhere in the law. Nowhere.
    .
    http://factcheck.org/2010/03/irs-expansion/
    .
    A lie. A total and complete lie.
    .
    Either you’re grossly misinformed (i.e. a Fox News regular) or you’re willfully lying.

  • kevin

    And it is all due to the Democrat Great Society, which did more to destroy the Black family and its prospects for economic and social success as anything else I’ve ever witnessed.
    .
    Uh, no. The Moynihan Report on the crisis of black families came out in 1965 — right as the Great Society was starting — and noted the ways in which centuries of slavery and segregation had impacted black society.
    .
    You’re an idiot.

  • kevin

    I think it’s adorable to watch Rusty and the New Troll here repeatedly ignore the materials 53_3 has presented as evidence for his assertions … and then claim that it’s liberals who have no evidence and refuse to answer the examples provided by others.
    .
    If you two projected any more, you’d be a Drive In movie theater.

  • kevin

    You folks obviously hate the very idea of people you disagree with even being allowed to vote.
    .
    More conservative projection. Read these:
    .
    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/republican_voter_suppression_a.php
    .
    http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_republican_war_on_voting
    .
    http://www.thenation.com/blogs/state_of_change/372992/gop_busted_for_voter_suppression
    .
    And tell me, with all these cases of Republicans being found guilty in courts of law of voter suppression, can you provide evidence of Democrats convicted for doing the same? No?

  • jactress

    King James was a Tyrant, Fawkes became a folk hero, but as much as he may have been protesting the protestant King, he was also a theif.
    He stole the crown jewels!!!!
    And made his excape on a boat down the Thames where he was caught, not a very well thought out plan, very shambolic, almost as if he didn’t believe he could pull it off. Maybe the Republicans should try and emulate another hero, fighting tyranny. Robin Hood?

  • 53_3

    It is stupid rhorto01.
    .
    Hell, I don’t know that much about Guy Fawkes, so I’ve been totally surprised by their reaching overseas to grab some quotes from him to use in a video that is fundamentally right wing propaganda.
    .
    As for the remainder of the debate that centered on my contentions, you’ll have to follow the links I’ve provided, bearing in mind the GOPs conduct the past 30+ years, and bone up a bit on race in the US.
    .
    It’s bad enough to have this disease within our borders, but I for one would be the last one to want to export our brand of politics to the UK!

  • 53_3

    “Item 44 was not directed at me so of course, I’m not going to answer it.”
    .
    Obfuscating,I see. Since you failed to see where I was taking this, and helped participate with the other two, I think you, just as much as they, need to answer it.
    .
    Like I’ve mentioned, I have 40 years of experience, vs your what? Your ideology? You don’t really know what you are talking about when it comes to any issues the Black community may have, and, more specifically, just why they won’t touch you, your movement, or the GOP with a 100 foot pole.
    .
    Rush Limbaugh,and others of his ilk, as I’ve pointed out, has obvious flaws as someone who can speak with any authority on this subject. Even yours and Rusty’s “discussion” at 53.6 has so many deep flaws as to what is and is not relevant in the Black community as to be totally laughable. None of what was said there has any particular relevance as an issue in the Black community, and none of those issues contributed to the problems therein!
    .
    Those “issues” discussed in 53.6 were carryovers from the ’90s version of Southern Strategy. How stupid are you? Go back to 44 and think about it. There is a core truth there that you will not face.
    .
    “Item 42.1 was a list of web links. HuffPo is a left-wing rant site, so I don’t pay any attention to it, just as I don’t pay any attention to any rant site, regardless of poilitical persuasion. I use Wiki when it is accurate, so what’s your point?
    .
    This is easy. Huffington post may be progressive, but it is the content containing videos that is of interest. As for wiki, I’m well aware of that problem, so, here is a clue:
    .
    follow the reference list at the end of the articles
    .
    There is no question about the veracity of either article, they are backed by so many documented and reliable references. There is no question on the issue of right wing vs left wing terrorism, nor on the existence of the Southern Strategy in the GOP. Neither are in doubt. You’re obfuscating here, too.
    .
    “And I am an immigrant and O’Reilly doesn’t speak for me, so again what’s your point? And the alleged racial slur event attributed to TEA Partiers has been debunked; it never happened.”
    .
    I’ve seen photos and records of that and many other instances. Rush Limbaugh’s rants, Glenn Becks, O’reilly’s, etc etc etc.
    .
    My point was not that you are this or that. That I made clear in my very first comment to you at 39.1. Reread every one of my comments and copy/paste anything that indicates that I did.
    .
    I did call Rusty a racist, and he is. I’ve tangled with Rusty for two years, and he’s a fan of stormfront, and occasionally writes some of the wort racist rants I’ve ever seen on this site (the “Sleeping White Giant” is one such).
    .
    You yourself might be a perfectly decent individual. However, what I did, and make no mistake about it, was that I made clear that the perception you complained about is not our fault, it is yours!
    .
    Fundamentally, if you want people to perceive your movement differently, then you need to change your peers’ behavior. Otherwise, you have exactly a snowballs’ chance in hell of accomplishing it.
    .
    It is not our problem!

  • 53_3

    I repeat:
    .
    Only a small percentage of Black Americans live in ghettos.

  • 53_3

    You should take his advice, and stop trying to “feed” your ideas about what the problem is to a community you know nearly nothing about!
    .
    You are so far removed from the real issues of the Black community you can’t even see it from where you stand!
    .
    And further, as a very sharp reminder, my intent, thoughout this entire discussion has been to highlight the problem of endemic racism in the GOP and how it has affected the perceptions of your movement!
    .
    Got it? I am not debating on what problems the Black community may have. There is no question right now of whether you know, and it is clear you do not!

  • 53_3

    These guys are idiots, kevin.
    .
    I this go round is getting tiresome. These guys ignore what’s in front of their noses.
    .
    I know that tomorrow will bring another incident, and another, and another, and they still don’t get it…

  • 53_3

    I think I’ve made my point here. This was tiring and thankless, to say the least.
    .
    I do have a gift for the three “know nothings” on this subject, and here it is:
    .
    ( ) ) fffffffffttttt!

  • 53_3

    Oh, and to cover that other base, I don’t see this as a racist nation by any means.
    .
    I see that there are those who yearn for a return to those days, and your peers exemplify this. So, in short, it’s not the nation I’m worried about.
    .
    No indeed. It’s the GOP!

  • losgatosca

    Yes, it’s harder to say ‘Remember the Reichstag!’.

    Just ask Lee Atwater.

  • bigpig1

    Fawkes tries to overthrow Church of England in an attempt to restore Catholicism as the religion of the land. – 1605

    Puritans part of Church of England even though Charles I treated them like crap. – 1604

    Pilgrim fathers made up of Puritans. – 1620

    RGA suport the destruction of the Pilgrim Fathers. – Priceless

    Not very American!

  • 3xfire3

    I was agreeing with annadem post 42 not you 53-3.

  • 3xfire3

    Kevin,

    You have obviously never actually watched FOX News or you would know how stupid your comments are.

    You can’t demonize a network when your only knowledge is video clips or parts taken out of context by the MSM, liberal blogs or other TV News programs who are getting their buts kicked by Fox. FOX is growing and MSM is declining at a fast pace.
    .
    There’s more unbiased news of FOX than any of the MSM sources

  • anchower

    Perverting history and glorifying losers is Republicans’ stock in trade.

  • 3xfire3

    53-3,
    .
    Newfreedom’s comment 53.6 are a good answer to your supposed facts from liberal sources such as Huffington, etc.
    .
    The “New Masters” are the Liberal Democrats.
    The “New Slaves” are the inner City Blacks. The New Masters keep them as Slaves by giving them free stuff in exchange for their votes.
    .
    This has been accomplished by the means expressed in post 53.6.
    .
    L/P social programs have destroyed the lives of millions of our black citizens in the inner city.
    .
    L/D have destroyed the black families. You destroyed the work ethics and ambition of these poor people. You destroyed their chance at getting a good education through corruption and incompetence by democratic controlled cities and democratic controlled school boards in the inner cities.
    .
    Liberal Democrates are the “New Masters”

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    King James, Uniting the Kingdoms of England and Scotland was what they named the English Flag the Union Jack for. Jack is Latin for James.
    .
    Guy Fawkes was not any hero, but regarded as a villain.
    .
    Robin Hood taking from the rich to give to the poor – a totally fictional character – would be the opposite of the Tea Party. They want to take a away social services to the poor so that they can give tax cuts to the rich.
    .
    It’s bad enough when they dress like George Washington, but, please don’t dress like Robin Hood.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Oh and be careful, annadem, Mr Sartor tends to become violence when he is pinned up against the wall and challenged. You may end up in one of his “crosshairs”, as he suggested not too long ago he would do to me and others on this site who vehemently disagree with his unfounded opinions.”
    .
    Here was the exchange – again.
    .
    “12
    “Thanks for irritating new rusty. It is a worthy pastime.”
    So going out of your way to piss people off in the course of political discourse is a “worthy pastime”?
    No wonder no one in this country can have a useful discussion anymore; everyone treats it like Tupac vs. Biggie.
    sasquatch08
    March 28, 2010
    at 6:45 am
    Reply to this comment
    • 12.1
    Sasquatch,
    Sometimes I think of this as a part of a bipartisan think tank.
    .
    Other times I think of being like the Machine Gun Kelly for the Democrats.
    .
    Freeinpa and Newfreedomblog are just trying p o everybody.
    .
    After a long debate, freeinpa was offline for a week.
    .
    He was going off about the late Senator Moynihan but didn’t know what he was talking about.
    .
    I put back in his place.
    .
    I think he is changing his pastime to watching old movies instead of coming up with random things about Democrats.
    .
    Newfreedomblog/rusty is next in my cross hairs. He is either going to learn to come up with valid explanations for what he says or change his hobby to stamp collecting.
    .
    Yesterday Newfreedomblog was trying to say that Herbert Hoover was a liberal.”

    Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/03/27/obama-announces-15-recess-appointments/#ixzz0jaFcf8l4

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I gotta say, Scherer, this really is a wildass attempt at trying to SHUT UP those that dare to dissent from Obamacrats’ statist policies, even using clips of their own words.”
    .
    Yeah, you noticed how the Swamp deletes all conservative remarks and sends the liberal police to your house to make sure that you are liberal….
    .
    Or, maybe Darleen, you are not making any sense at all but just feel like claiming oppression because it feels good to you to say that you are being oppressed rather than admit that, at times, Republicans have been actively trying to hold down Democrats using the Patriot Act and a series of vote suppression issues.
    .
    See “projection” in psychology.
    .
    You are free to be as conservative or as liberal as you want to be in the Swamp, but, since conservatives are the minority and have talking points rather than facts, they do not last very long and quit.
    .
    It hurts conservative brains when too many facts attack their world view.

  • apr2563

    http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/

    Doonesbury has it exactly right. The real bile on the right after the 50s was revived by Newt Gingrich and his list.

  • apr2563

    Of course there was the Nixon era. I guess they have been vile since the McCarthy time. Gingrich just perpetuated it and the media just went along.

  • abdullah69

    A little historical accuracy is called for here. Guy (or Guido, to give him his right name) was actually an agent of the King of Spain, smuggled into England to blow up the Houses of Parliament.

    Now, given the extensive Moorish influence in Spain at the the time, it is highly likely that Fawkes was at least partially of Arab descent.

    So we have a (partial) Arab infiltrating another country to perform a terrorist act. Sound familiar? Or have I already missed the GOP video singing the praises of Mohammed Attar?

    Of course I haven’t even touched on the illegal Latino immigrant part.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Remember how much troulbe Obama got in by pointing out that certain segments of the country were ‘bitter’.

    I guess the Tea Partiers are really out to prove him wrong, eh?

  • shepherdwong

    Those words are not Lincoln’s, they’re from a 1942 pamphlet by William J. H. Boetcker, a Presbyterian minister. You’re an idiot.

  • 53_3

    I knew it! I knew it!
    .
    There was something fishy about the wage payer stuff in there, and I was thinking about asking him for an authoritative link proving that it was.
    .
    It is just one more, and absolutely perfect example of just how far these idiots are willing to fold, spindle and mutilate US history.

  • jbaustian

    Patrick wrote: “Jbaustin said that he wanted Obama to fail. That is, not just to fail at passing legislation, but, he wished for the outcome of anything passed to be a failure.
    .
    (snip)
    .
    What conservatives hate the most, and I think this was your quote, is that reality has a liberal bias.” (end of quote)
    .
    Yes, I would be happy if every bit of legislation Obama proposes should fail to pass… that every radical nominees he puts forward for any office should faile to be confirmed… and that the courts would rule that what he has done so far is mostly unconstitutional, thus null and void, including nearly all rules and regulations.
    .
    But I will be satisfied if the voters simply see him for what he is, and thorougly repudiate him and his party in the 2010 and 2012 elections. And that the Democratic Party, or at least the progressive majority in that party, should go away like the Whigs and Know-Nothings and Prohibitionists.
    .
    As for reality having a liberal bias — is that why even the murders of 100 million people, in Russia, China, Eastern Europe, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, and elsewhere around the world, all in the name of communism, was not enough to wipe out the desire of people to be free, to manage their own lives, to own their own land, and run their own affairs without government meddling all the time.
    .
    Liberalism, progressivism, or socialism in all its variants (Bolshevism, national socialism, fascism, etc) would not need to be imposed by force on unwilling populaces if they represented the natural order of things.
    .
    Where there is a bias, it is for politicians to seek more and more power at the expense of the people they claim to represent.

  • stewartiii

    NewsBusters| TIME: GOP’s ‘Remember November’ Ad Embraces ‘V for Vendetta’ Terrorist
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2010/04/25/time-gops-remember-november-ad-embraces-17th-century-british-terrorist

  • rhorto01

    I’m sorry, but what quotes? We have been using the first tuesday in November as election day since 1845. Since then some variation of “the voters will remember in November” has been used in literally thousands of ways (if not tens of thousands) as campaign slogans, in campaign literature, in political emphemera etc.

    This is so far beyond a mere “stretch” its all I can do to shake my head.

    And I love how putting “classical music” in the ad is now evidence of diabolical intent. What were they supposed to put in it? Zany clown music? When the DNC puts out ads they dont use music to underscore their message? Take this DNC anti McCain ad from 2008 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ul9iMgmOw). In it there is piano music which sounds vaguely like Mike Oldfield’s “Tubular Bells” made famous in the movie “The Exorcist.” (Using the music of a single piano has subsequently been used in countless horror/slasher films. We know what it is supposed to mean.) It is meant to sound ominous, right? Were they also saying John McCain was possessed by Satan, or would soon be chasing our half-maked teenagers with a chainsaw? Of course not. Yet, that is exactly the kind of leap you are making here. (I do notice you have softened your statement, but you are still saying there is something illegitimate going on here. If so, is the DNC ad also “wrong” in some way?)

    Also….of COURSE its propaganda! The definition: “ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause or to damage an opposing cause”

    By definition ALL campaign material is propaganda. That is the way you have competetitive elections. There has never been a campaign ad that hasn’t been slanted and there never will be. If I’m supposed to get worked up about that…well, sheesh, I’d never be able to look at anything political.

  • 53_3

    “Also….of COURSE its propaganda! The definition: “ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause or to damage an opposing cause”
    .
    The dogwhistle stuff comes under the heading of ideas.
    It also lacks the second of the three components, facts.
    .
    As for being par for the course, I agree.
    .
    Thank you!
    .
    That is all.

  • apr2563

    Shepherdwong: You are my hero. I was too lazy to look up the quote. Thank you.
    .
    Now can we expect annadem01 to appologize for lying to us?

  • sfheath

    Thanks for the update Mr. Scherer. If I read you correctly, you’re saying that you found a Fawkes/V for Vendetta reference through your viewing of the video, not by asking the producers of the video if that was their intent. However, when you write “The RGA is not calling for a violent uprising here. It is tapping into well-established online anti-government memes.” it seems that you undercut the amazement of your original post, especially “This time, President Obama plays the roll of King James, the Democratic leadership is Parliament, and the Republican Party represents the aggrieved Catholic mass.” If there is no implicit call to violence in your reading of the video, then to what purpose did you make the connection so explicit? Thanks.

  • shepherdwong

    “If there is no implicit call to violence in your reading of the video…”
    .
    Of course there’s an implicit call to violence:

    Aside from the Remember November refrain, the classical music, the near-apocalyptic crises messages, the suggestions of totalitarian intent, the imagery of Castro and marching soldiers, the sound of a ticking clock all points to a well established online narrative, where Fawkes thrives as a sort of folk hero for all ideologies.

    And I must have blocked it out. Were there implicit calls to violence in 1995?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    j.
    .
    “…is that why even the murders of 100 million people, in Russia, China, Eastern Europe, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, and elsewhere around the world…”
    .
    If you take Hitler as a Republican, then I guess taking communists as a Democrat would be fair.
    .
    However, there are free and fair elections in the US and the difference between Fascism and conservatism is elections just as the difference between communism and anything liberal includes elections and the ACLU.
    .
    Hitler killed six million non-combatants in death camps and, along with Imperialists right wingers in Japan killed sixty million in war only from his coming to power in eleven years. It took communism 75 years to kill so many.
    .
    So even if you take on Hitler as a Republican as unfairly as you ask to take on communists as Democrats, then it is clear that Hitler and the super right wing was worse than the super left wing.
    .
    If you want to talk about where Democrats with an extremely strong view of free speech stand, then you are talking about no deaths due to political oppression.
    .
    Furthermore, look at every single EEC country and Canada and you will find that they are very, very open societies and very anti-communist yet far, far to the left of Democrats. So, once again, in addition to an anti-communist and anti-right-wing-fascist bias, reality has a liberal bias.
    .
    Put on an SS uniform before you claim Democrats are the same as communists.

  • rhorto01

    Huh?
    .

    Did you notice the “or” in the definition?
    .

    I know formal logic isn’t taught much anymore, but I though soe things were still generally understood…
    .

    /eyeroll

  • jbaustian

    Patrick: “If you take Hitler as a Republican, then I guess taking communists as a Democrat would be fair.
    (snip)
    So even if you take on Hitler as a Republican as unfairly as you ask to take on communists as Democrats, then it is clear that Hitler and the super right wing was worse than the super left wing.
    (snip)
    Put on an SS uniform before you claim Democrats are the same as communists. (end of quote)
    .
    I do not accept your premise. Though there were doctrinal differences between the international socialism of the Soviets and the national socialism of the Nazis, in practice there were more similarities than differences. In each country, every man, woman and child was a slave to the oligarchy at the top. Every aspect of their lives was subject to control. Their hatred for each other was the centuries-old hatred for Germans and Slavs, even more than a dispute over whether union between the working classes of all countries was preferable to a union of all classes within each country.
    .
    If Democrats want to adopt the same policies as socialists or fascists in other countries, it does not follow that Republicans must belong in some other box which you define. It is up to Republicans to decide what they are to be.
    .
    In the past, too many Republicans have tried to be Democrat-light, to call themselves moderate Republicans or liberal Republicans or progressive Republicans. But if Republicans are to be a true opposition party, then it is not good enough that they be for all or most of the same things that Democrats stand for. That is the origin of the term “RINO”.
    .
    I do not have the power to write the GOP platform. I cannot frame its positions or policies to match my own preferences. I still have to criticize GOP mistakes when they make them. But both the country and the party seem to be moving in a libertarian direction, because they do not like the totalitarian direction that Obama and Pelosi and Reid are trying to take the country.
    .
    The reaction against Obamanism is gathering strength, as seen recently in New Jersey. It might become obvious, even to you, before this year is out.
    .

  • skywatcher888

    Quote: “First, as I suggest in the post, the tale of Fawkes has been so thoroughly appropriated by so many that it is just not right to associate the latest appropriators with the intent of the original criminal in 1605.”

    Have you LOST YOUR EFFING MIND???

    That’s like saying it’s OK to wear swastikas because The Producers appropriated Hitler.

    The RGA is a bunch of thugs. They have NOTHING to offer the American people except thuggery, debauchery and lies.

    The GOP is the most morally BANKRUPT party on the planet today, and considering what’s going in Thailand, Burma, and Cambodia that’s saying quite a lot.

    The GOP is the ENEMY of the people. That they chum up to a 17th century terrorist says EVERYTHING you need to know about the GOP today.

  • jbaustian

    You are mistaken, skywatcher. The thugs who fit your description are the leaders of America’s labor unions, who steal the dues paid by their members, then use that money to increase their own power.
    .
    Practically the first thing Obama did was remove government monitoring of the unions, their leadership, and the pension funds that they use as slush funds. The reason for the monitoring was to keep the union leaders from doing what had sent so many of their predecessors to prison for offenses related to racketeering.
    .
    Now the current generation of union leaders is doing the same thing, and getting away with it. They claim to speak for all workers, but they only speak for a minority of their own members. And the political agenda they press is not good for any workers, union or non-union.
    .
    The Republican governors are accountable to voters every 2 or 4 years. Where’s the accountability of union leaders?

  • ertdfg

    Remember November from Politicians?

    Must mean Guy Fawkes, you’re right. Checking my election calendar the election this year will be the 2nd of YOU’RE A DAMNED IDIOT!

    Seriously… do you forget when elections are? Are you too stupid to know that elections are always in November? Did you think that maybe, just possibly Elected officials might be talking about the elections where they either do or don’t keep their jobs?

    Damn it’s impressive the level of stupid, obtuse, conspiracy-theorist, and just batcrap insane you’ve blended together to stretch this to mean something, anything else…

    I didn’t realize that Time had a tinfoil-hat crazy-internet blogger from la-la land. I guess it’s good work if you can get it, and don’t choke to death on your shoelaces.

  • annademo01

    An honest mistake is not a lie. Here are two examples of humdinger-level lies: Obama saying that Obama-care will reduce the cost of healthcare and Obama saying that you will be able to keep your insurance is you are happy with it. An analysis of Obama-care reveals these lies:
    http://www.politico.com/static/PPM130_oact_memorandum_on_financial_impact_of_ppaca_as_enacted.html

    From this report:
    1. People losing coverage: About 14 million people will lose their employer coverage by 2019, as smaller employers terminate their plans and workers who currently have employer coverage enroll in Medicaid. Half of all seniors on Medicare Advantage could lose their coverage and the extra benefits the plans offer.

    2. Huge fines for companies: Businesses will pay $87 billion in penalties in the first five years after the fines trigger in 2014, partly because they can’t afford to offer expensive, government-mandated coverage and partly because some of their employees will apply for taxpayer-subsidized insurance.

    3. Higher costs for consumers: Tens of billions of dollars in new fees and excise taxes will be “passed through to health consumers in the form of higher drug and devices prices and higher premiums,” according to Foster. A separate report shows small businesses will be hit hardest.

    4. A program created to fail: The new “CLASS Act” long-term-care insurance program will face “a significant risk of failure,” according to Foster. Indeed, he finds, “there is a very serious risk that the problem of adverse selection will make the CLASS program unsustainable.”

    5. Spending increases: Under the new law, national health spending will increase by $311 billion over the coming decade. And instead of bending the federal spending curve down, it will move it upward “by a net total of $251 billion” over the next decade.

    6. “Free-riders”: An estimated 23 million people will remain uninsured in 2019, roughly 5 million of whom would be undocumented aliens; the remainder would be the 18 million who decline to get coverage and who will pay the penalty.

    7. Spending reductions are fiction: Estimated reductions in the growth rate of health spending “may not be fully achievable” because “Medicare productivity adjustments could become unsustainable even within the next ten years, and over time the reductions in the scope of employer-sponsored health insurance could also become an issue.”

    8. You can’t keep your doctor: Fifteen percent of all hospitals, nursing homes, and other providers treating Medicare patients could be operating at a loss by 2019, which will “possibly jeopardize access to care for beneficiaries.” Doctors are threatening to drop out of Medicare because cuts in Medicare reimbursement rates mean they can’t even cover their costs.

    9. Coverage but no care: A significant portion of those newly eligible for Medicaid will have trouble finding physicians who will see them, and the increased demand for Medicaid services could be difficult to meet.

  • annademo01

    “You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people’s initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves.”

    It doesn’t matter who said it. The words and the sentiment are accurate.

  • annademo01

    Obama saying that Obama-care will reduce the cost of healthcare and Obama saying that you will be able to keep your insurance if you are happy with it. Well, not exactly: http://www.politico.com/static/PPM130_oact_memorandum_on_financial_impact_of_ppaca_as_enacted.html

    From this report:
    1. People losing coverage: About 14 million people will lose their employer coverage by 2019, as smaller employers terminate their plans and workers who currently have employer coverage enroll in Medicaid. Half of all seniors on Medicare Advantage could lose their coverage and the extra benefits the plans offer.

    2. Huge fines for companies: Businesses will pay $87 billion in penalties in the first five years after the fines trigger in 2014, partly because they can’t afford to offer expensive, government-mandated coverage and partly because some of their employees will apply for taxpayer-subsidized insurance.

    3. Higher costs for consumers: Tens of billions of dollars in new fees and excise taxes will be “passed through to health consumers in the form of higher drug and devices prices and higher premiums,” according to Foster. A separate report shows small businesses will be hit hardest.

    4. A program created to fail: The new “CLASS Act” long-term-care insurance program will face “a significant risk of failure,” according to Foster. Indeed, he finds, “there is a very serious risk that the problem of adverse selection will make the CLASS program unsustainable.”

    5. Spending increases: Under the new law, national health spending will increase by $311 billion over the coming decade. And instead of bending the federal spending curve down, it will move it upward “by a net total of $251 billion” over the next decade.

    6. “Free-riders”: An estimated 23 million people will remain uninsured in 2019, roughly 5 million of whom would be undocumented aliens; the remainder would be the 18 million who decline to get coverage and who will pay the penalty.

    7. Spending reductions are fiction: Estimated reductions in the growth rate of health spending “may not be fully achievable” because “Medicare productivity adjustments could become unsustainable even within the next ten years, and over time the reductions in the scope of employer-sponsored health insurance could also become an issue.”

    8. You can’t keep your doctor: Fifteen percent of all hospitals, nursing homes, and other providers treating Medicare patients could be operating at a loss by 2019, which will “possibly jeopardize access to care for beneficiaries.” Doctors are threatening to drop out of Medicare because cuts in Medicare reimbursement rates mean they can’t even cover their costs.

    9. Coverage but no care: A significant portion of those newly eligible for Medicaid will have trouble finding physicians who will see them, and the increased demand for Medicaid services could be difficult to meet.

    I can see November from my house.

  • annademo01

    Another Obama lie: he will not increase taxes on families making under $250,000. See Obama-care:

    3. Higher costs for consumers: Tens of billions of dollars in new fees and excise taxes will be “passed through to health consumers in the form of higher drug and devices prices and higher premiums,” according to Foster. A separate report shows small businesses will be hit hardest.

  • sentinel18

    Ron Paul raised 6 million on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party. Tea Parties then hijacked by the neocons and GOP. Ron Paul raised 4.3 million on November 5th to commemorate V for Vendetta and Guy Fawkes. GOP seeks to hijack that too.

  • 3xfire3

    Yes they are to Mainsteam Americans, just not for Liberal Democrats.
    .
    I don’t know what happened to the Democratic Party of my parents and grandparents but if they saw it today they would turn over in their graves.
    .
    It has been hijacked by the far left and has lost contact with Mainstream Americans.

  • 3xfire3

    Senile,
    .
    The Tea Party and the GOP will work together as partners in November to get rid of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party Congressmen.
    .
    Your hope that Conservatives will not work together is wishful thinking. Neither the Tea Party nor the Republicans want Socialism for our country and for that reason they will work their butts off to save our country.
    .
    In November you Liberals can go back into your holes in the ground.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “If Democrats want to adopt the same policies as socialists or fascists in other countries, it does not follow that Republicans must belong in some other box which you define. It is up to Republicans to decide what they are to be.”
    .
    Joseph McCarthy followed the same path as Hitler when it came to loyalty oaths, hunting for communism and a variety of other things.
    .
    He was not a liberal in any way.
    .
    If you want to be blind to what fascism is, you will wake up some morning and find yourself putting on an SS uniform of your own.
    .
    Democratic “tactics” goes like this:
    .
    1) Get an idea (often from a university, sometimes from industry).
    .
    2) Find out if it is valid and tolerable to many in that industry (but, possibly consumers and not business owners, investors but not managers or workers and not investors, etc, etc) or, if comes from business, to take the idea to a university to see what a study will say.
    .
    3) Propose it as a part of a platform.
    .
    4) Win the election and make the proposal.
    .
    5) Debate it until the public is about to drop dead from boredom.
    .
    6) enact a watered down version of the bill.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    J.,
    .
    You have to have lost your mind if you believe most of what you write.
    .
    “Practically the first thing Obama did was remove government monitoring of the unions…”
    .
    Courts, not the president, ended monitoring of the Teamsters due to corruption issues.
    .
    Hitler, monitored German labor unions.
    .
    Part of fascism is to control labor unions and suppress them. This is why I think you are closet fascist.
    .

    “[unions] only speak for a minority of their own members. Where’s the accountability of union leaders?”
    .
    Union leaders are elected by the majority of those they represent, just like Republican governors.
    .
    A union may dissolve if the majority choose to go non-union instead.
    .
    Obviously you have no idea what a union is.
    .
    It is like a small democratic government negotiating with management.

  • jbaustian

    “If Democrats want to adopt the same policies as socialists or fascists in other countries, it does not follow that Republicans must belong in some other box which you define. It is up to Republicans to decide what they are to be.”
    .
    patrick wrote “Joseph McCarthy followed the same path as Hitler when it came to loyalty oaths, hunting for communism and a variety of other things.
    .
    He was not a liberal in any way. (end of quote)
    .
    I presume you are somewhat familiar with the activities of the Wilson Administration, which formed a semi-secret police organization to infiltrate radical organizations, seeking out undeslrable enemy aliens. More than 10,000 were arrested, more than 3,000 were deported. Both Mussolini and Hitler were admirers of Wilson and the American progressive movement. Joe McCarthy did nothing that had not already occurred during the Red Scare of 1919-20.
    .
    (quote)If you want to be blind to what fascism is, you will wake up some morning and find yourself putting on an SS uniform of your own. (end of quote)
    .
    I have learned more about fascism in the last year than I ever thought possible. It is not about uniforms, nor about anti-semitism, nor genocide. It is about the acquisition and accumulation of power by a ruling party, as the form of government becomes more and more totalitarian.
    .
    What the ruling party does with that power, if it is used to attack those who are out of favor with the government, then it can go in a number of directions. In many cases a fascist regime will try to put on a happy face for the public, and keep the jackboots for special occasions.
    .

  • jbaustian

    Quote by Patrick: “This is why I think you are closet fascist. (end of quote)
    .
    Since libertarians are at the opposite end of the spectrum from totalitarians like the socialists and their cousins the fascists, that would put me a lot further away from being a fascist than you are. Since you are constantly a defender of big government, the bigger the better, you cannot really deny the consequences of big government.
    .
    I must say, you’ve fallen into the habit of making ad hominem attacks in nearly every post lately, and not addressing the substance of the argument. Let me tell you, it is not an effective form of persuasion. I cautioned you a few weeks ago that I did not have time to invent clever responses to each such attack. So if I do happen to respond in like manner, I’ll probably stick with something crude and simple.

  • jbaustian

    Sorry, the post directly above was supposed to be a response to 68.2 — not that it matters.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Defensively, Palmer then warned that a government-deposing left-wing revolution would begin on 1 May 1920 — May Day, the International Workers’ Day. When it failed to happen, he was ridiculed and lost much credibility. Strengthening the legal criticism of Palmer was that fewer than 600 deportations were substantiated with evidence, out of the thousands of resident aliens illegally arrested and deported. In July 1920, Palmer’s promising Democratic Party bid for the US presidency failed.[5]

    Consequent to the newspaper-induced xenophobia and police suppression characteristic of the First Red Scare, liberal and left-wing organizations, such as the Industrial Workers of the World, the Communist Party of the United States, and the like,[who?] lost many members.[6] In 1919–20, several states legislated “criminal syndicalism” laws out-lawing advocacy of violence in effecting and securing social change; the restrictions included free speech limitations.[7]

    Passage of these laws, in turn, provoked over-aggressive police investigation of the accused persons, their jailing, and deportation for being suspected of being either communist or left-wing. Regardless of ideologic gradation, the Red Scare did not distinguish between communism, socialism, or social democracy, because all were deemed “foreign” (European) ideologies and, thus, “un-American”.[8″
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare
    .
    The people Wilson prosecuted were to the left.
    .
    So, our profile is: party which calls it’s opposition “Un-American”, “Communist”, “Anarchist”, hates Social Democrats, does not distinguish between communists and social democrats and had a fear of immigrants.
    .
    It looks like the party wanting to do this are called REPUBLICANS.
    .
    Sure, for forty years between McCarthy embarrassing them and scarring their name Republicans used to be bipartisan, but, starting with a campaign which won over “angry white men” the Republicans began to show their true colors again.
    .
    Since communists are long gone and the actual political movement of anarchists died off in the Spanish Civil War, their favorite enemies to lie are about are Liberals.
    .
    Wilson did not have anybody to his right imprisoned.
    .
    The most famous one arrested was Eugene V Debs.
    .
    He supported Unions and the anti-war movement.
    .
    Which party had the government recently infiltrate peace groups?
    .
    Republicans.
    .
    Which party hates unions?
    .
    Republicans.
    .
    Which party is becoming proto-fascist?
    .
    Republicans.
    .
    So, even though Wilson panicked and did something very wrong does not mean that after the party has been through huge changes to be very pro-union and pro-immigrant that Democrats will be oppressors.
    .
    It means when you hear anti-liberal, anti-social democratic scare tactics and anti-immigrant tactics and talk of who is “Un-American” you look out for that party being a danger.
    .
    That danger in the 1950s and now is the Republican Party.

  • jbaustian

    Can’t really help you, Patrick, when you insist on drawing wrong conclusions.
    .
    Wilson did not deport anyone for being liberal, progressive, or even communist, unless they were aliens and advocating the overthrow of the US government.
    .
    Debs was imprisoned for his opposition to the draft and to US involvement in the war. Wilson wanted to “make the world safe for democracy” — to do that he needed a big army, a big government bureaucracy to manage war production, and police powers to stamp down on any pro-German activism. Besides German-Americans, Irish-Americans were also strongly opposed to going to war alongside the British.
    .
    Joe McCarthy was an alcoholic, and not particularly bright; but his allegations about communists working for the US government were accurate. That’s been proven using Soviet-era documents. So McCarthy-bashing is not as effective as it once was.
    .
    (quote)Which party is becoming proto-fascist?
    .
    Republicans.(end quote)
    .
    Only the “moderate” Republicans In Name Only — RINOs. The ones who support Big Government, though maybe not quite so big and so quickly as the Democrats. There are also libertarian Republicans who want a smaller government — they are at the opposite end of the political spectrum from fascists and socialists.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Wilson did not deport anyone for being liberal, progressive, or even communist, unless they were aliens and advocating the overthrow of the US government.”
    .
    Untrue!
    .
    Read the post I had just completed and you will realize that either wikipedia has been infiltrated by this leftist group in your imagination, US historians have such that this was written or you are just in denial of reality.
    .
    Only Ayn Rand saw similarities between Communists and Fascists other than methods.
    .
    The most recent follower of Ayn Rand in government was Allen Greenspan who, literally did not believe in anti-fraud laws.
    .
    Rand’s philosophy (not economics since she was not an economist and not history since she was not a historian) has been proven a failure again and again.
    .
    Wilson arrested and deported liberals and did what McCarthy later did. End of that chapter.
    .
    Please pay attention to Canada, England, France, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Itally… the rest of the industrialized world who all have much larger governments than ours and notice that they are not fascist, communist, lack free speech, lack free elections or have any of the ills you fear do to the introduction of health care.
    .
    You insist that you learned more from being a factory worker and whatever else you did with your life than about economics, history, constitutional law, political science and whatever else you claim to know than people who spend forty years each coming to these conclusions. You embrace your ignorance and encourage others to share your ignorance.

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