The Corporate Derivatives Slander? Or The Big Derivative Secret?

Despite what Glenn Beck’s chalkboard says, George Soros is one of the world’s most successful capitalists, and a major advocate for more regulated markets. Today, in the Financial Times, he repeats a claim that I have been hearing a lot lately, without much substantiation.

The five big banks which serve as marketmakers and account for over 95 per cent of the US’s outstanding over-the-counter transactions are likely to oppose it because it would hit their profits. It is more puzzling that some multinational corporations are also opposed. The only explanation is that tailor-made derivatives can facilitate tax avoidance and manipulation of earnings. These considerations ought not to influence the legislation.

That seems like a rather explosive claim, and it is not the first time I have heard it. At a press conference Tuesday with Maria Cantwell, one of the speakers hinted that the so-called “end-users” who are seeking further exemptions from derivatives regulation might have these same less-than-honorable motivations. In recent weeks, the Wall Street Journal has reported on big banks use of the repo market to hide its debts whenever they need to report to investors. Could it be that large non-financial corporations want to keep the derivatives market in the dark because they use derivatives to deceive investors or the IRS? And if so, who is doing this?

I don’t know a way to answer that question right now, though hopefully the SEC is looking into it. In January, the New York Times reported on one way derivatives could be used to dodge tax payments–by allowing banks to buy synthetic things that behave like stocks but are not taxed like stocks. The practice of buying or selling derivatives to hedge earnings volatility is also well known within the industry, and also not necessarily malicious. After all, this is essentially what airlines are doing when they buy hedges on the prices of jet fuel to protect their bottom line. But what happens when that behavior crosses a hard-to-define line from smart investing to non-transparent manipulation?

How would this work? Well, we can look at Greece for a sense. In that case, Goldman Sachs helped the company conceal its debt by selling currency derivatives to the country. NPR explains how it worked:

The allegations involve what are called cross-currency derivatives sold to the Greek government nearly a decade ago. At the time, Greece was lobbying to get into the European Union. The derivatives sold by Goldman helped Greece conceal the extent of its debt from EU regulators and investors by taking it off the government’s books. Tim Backshall, chief strategist at Credit Derivatives Research, says these transactions aren’t illegal, but they are not usually used by sovereign governments, and the fact that they were has helped undermine the market’s confidence in Greece.

The Federal Reserve is now investigating the Greece deals. It is unclear how many similar deals might have been structured for large corporations. But the fact that Soros is laying out the claim so baldly in the Financial Times is sure to raise eyebrows.

Related Topics: derivatives, financial reregulation, george soros, Uncategorized
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  • sevenoaks07

    Don’t wait for the SEC to do something Michael. It seems that some of the staff are focusing on the porn market which, it would seem, merits close supervision.

  • grape_crush

    Now you’ve done it, Michael…by mentioning the fact that what others are saying about derivatives being used to hide debt and avoid taxes is also being said by George Soros, you’ve made that statement false and automatically dismiss-able for the wingnut portion of the population.

    I can already hear the wingnuttery: “The current financial reform legislation comes from the far left, from people like George Soros, as a mechanism for socializing the US economy.”

  • grape_crush

    Oh, and you either have an extra ‘A’ or ‘The’ in the title.

  • newfreedomblog

    Is it any wonder that George Soros is not involved in all of this? The same George Soros who almost single handedly brought down the entire financial institutions in England before he fled to the United States with the billions of dollars he skimmed off of his schemes before he left England. Why isn’t George Soros exposed for what he is? Are his billions of dollars supporting the Democrats for the past 10 or so years now paying off for him to avoid any investigation?
    .
    Is it also not surprising that the top 10 “Financial Institutions” who will be most directly affected by this legislation are all Democrats by voting record. That each one of them have made multiple visits to the Obama Oval Office to discuss this legislation for the past year. Now in my neck of the woods we call that letting the fox in the hen house.
    .
    Is it also not surprising that most of these men are in favor of the legislation with a few minor exceptions.
    .
    Now THAT is reform we can really count on, isn’t it Michael Scherer? Change we CAN believe in?
    .
    Why have we not had reporting on exactly what all is being considered for this new big Government regulation “ponzi” scheme? When are you going to break it all down for us Michael or do as you usually do and simply link to someone else’s work rather than put out for print these basically non-issue stories?

  • nflfoghorn

    Or did he mean “Are”?

  • Art Pepper

    I can already hear the wingnuttery
    .
    And right on cue…

  • square1

    Republicans love to display their complete idiocy when attacking George Soros.
    .
    Soros, perhaps more than anyone on the entire planet, represents the ostensible conservative ideal: A self-made billionaire who has achieved his wealth solely through his own brains and free-market investments.
    .
    But Republicans cannot embrace this real-life Ayn Randian figure because (a) he is a philanthropist who is dedicated to spreading freedom and fighting for worldwide human rights and (b) domestically, he supports Democrats.
    .
    Because of this, we get the absurd spectacle of Republicans — Republicans! — attacking Soros for making money. Far from engaging in a “scheme”, Soros simply believed that the British currency was over-valued and bet against it. That’s it. There’s your scheme.
    .
    Even though I do not share such views, one could make an argument that such currency speculation is dangerous. But Republicans never, never, never, never, never make such arguments about anyone not named George Soros.
    .
    Do Republicans care about Goldman Sachs bringing Greece to its knees? Or about the hedge funds that bankrupted Iceland? Or about Paulson making a fortune betting against subprime mortgages. Of course not. Those people aren’t high-profile Democrats.

  • nibblybits

    George Soros did not “flee from England to the US”, as you say, to avoid (a non-existent) prosecution. He merely shorted the British pound when it was overvalued and he profited when it went down. It was a foreign exchange bet. He wasn’t physically in England when it happened, so he didn’t need to “leave”. Don’t you know how currency trading works?
    .
    Your fluency of the financial markets is about as bad as Scherer’s, and that’s saying something.

  • gysgt213

    Soros was on Wall Street as early as 1956.

  • Art Pepper

    almost single handedly brought down the entire financial institutions in England
    .
    So you would support stronger financial regulations?

  • newfreedomblog

    Oh my poor little libtard friends on the left. George Soros’ one and only claim to fame is yes, betting on the devaluation of the British pound. He took advantage of a market that was in transition from the pound to the Euro at the time. His “bet” did almost bring the total collaspe of the Bank of England, which most would claim to be on par with our own Federal Reserve.
    .
    It was a time which is eerily the same as today. Inflationary worries coupled with high unemployment. Soros’ bet was that people would sell their pounds in favor of what they thought were more secure German marks. Despite the increase in the interest rate, the pound continued its dive. Billions of British Tax Payers lost money which went into George Soros’ pocket.
    .
    Despite liberals claims that “this is a Republican-like tactic”, it was merely greed on the part of Soros. He has since taken his billions to do the same thing in many other different countries around the world, then spending his “philanthropy dollars” to affect Governmental policy and yes regulations which are more favorable to his type of investments. No Ladies and Gentlement, this is not a “typical Republican-like” tactic on the part of George Soros. He is a villian who uses the stupid democrats to gain an upper hand in his financial wheeling and dealing.
    .
    To answer Art Pepper. I would support financial regulations that speculators like George Soros should be thrown out of this country so fast that would make their heads spin around like the girl in the movie the Exorcist. I would deport him and never allow him to ever have any influence upon anything in this country because he is nothing more than a crook. He buys off liberal politicians so that they pass the type of regulations we are seeing today with Obama and company. It is only a matter of time before Obama allows us to get burnt like the people in England were burned by George Soros.
    .
    Rather than Republican-like. George Soros is more like Genghis Khan or Atilla the Hun. He goes from one country to the other raping and pillaging the countryside. How many lives has good ‘ol George destroyed in all of his “speculating” of world currencies? That would make for an interesting story by a TIME.com reporter, don’t you think?
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday
    .
    But why would we even think our Democrats or Liberals in this country would think that their big money man George Soros is anything other than their savior. He supports not only the MoveOn.orgy group, but the Center for American Progress which wrote the current Bill being considered. With Soros involved in all of this with the minions like John Podesta, it is just a few short years until we see the same for America as Britain saw in 1992.

  • jbaustian

    square1 wrote: “Soros, perhaps more than anyone on the entire planet, represents the ostensible conservative ideal: A self-made billionaire who has achieved his wealth solely through his own brains and free-market investments.”
    .
    No, he manipulates markets, governments, and mass media. He poured hundreds of millions of dollars into the 2008 election, by funding dozens and perhaps hundreds of “independent” organizations. (He also interferes in elections in other countries, too.) That is not capitalism.
    .
    Banks are competitors to hedge funds. Banks are already heavily regulated, hedge funds are not. I would be very surprised if Soros’ funded groups are not heavily involved in the bank-bashing media frenzy, because naturally Soros’ goal is to weaken the banks even further. That is not capitalism.
    .
    Do not be confused into thinking the proposed legislation will protect investors or strengthen the financial system or prevent some future catastrophe. It is very likely that yet another bubble is about to burst in the bond market, because interest rates are far too low for the amount of risk in that market. The imminent default of only one or two smallish countries could drive up interest rates by hundreds of basis points. Of course you know that this would devastate not just individual investors, but also insurance companies and banks and anyone else whose fixed-income securities are not hedged. This is not capitalism
    .
    Naturally Soros’ hedge funds are hedged. That is what they do, and what they want to keep others from doing. Soros wants to be on the winning side of each trade, but someone else is always on the losing side, and he is content that the banks will be among the losers. This is not capitalism.
    .
    “The George Soros Protection Racket and Bank Regulation Act of 2010″. It has a certain ring to it. And it is how Barack Obama rewards Mr Soros for his indispensible assistance in the 2008 election.
    .
    If there is another crash, Mr Obama and Mr Soros will blame capitalism.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    The only reason the republicans dislike Soros so much is because he’s a democrat. If Soros were a republican, he’d be their hero.

  • nibblybits

    baustian, Banks are NOT competitors with hedge funds. Anyone who would claim such a thing really doesn’t understand the financial markets.
    .
    newfreedom, I’m really sorry but it’s so clear you have very little idea of Soros’s trade and that your understanding derives solely from Wikipedia. It’s unfortunate because whether you agree or disagree with the merits or morality of his trade, any financial wonk gives a bow of mad respect at the sheer ballsiness of it. You may not like Mr. Soros’s politics or humanitarian efforts around the world, but if you had even an iota of knowledge of the financial markets you’d be pretty impressed too.
    .
    As for Soros’s negative views on derivatives, they are echoed by some of the giants in the industry including Warren Buffett, Pete Peterson and others. It’s fairly common knowledge actually, but there’s too much money in it for the industry to give it up easily.

  • nibblybits

    new freedom: No personal offense, but I laughed pretty hard when I read this:
    “It is only a matter of time before Obama allows us to get burnt like the people in England were burned by George Soros.
    .
    “Rather than Republican-like. George Soros is more like Genghis Khan or Atilla the Hun. He goes from one country to the other raping and pillaging the countryside. How many lives has good ‘ol George destroyed in all of his “speculating” of world currencies?”
    .
    The picture you paint is very entertaining, but that’s just not how currency trading works. You give Soros a little too much credit actually, if you knew the size and scope of fx markets…

  • jbaustian

    Nibbly: “As for Soros’s negative views on derivatives, they are echoed by some of the giants in the industry including Warren Buffett, Pete Peterson and others. It’s fairly common knowledge actually, but there’s too much money in it for the industry to give it up easily.”
    .
    Wow! You are misinformed about the function of hedge funds, even though “hedge fund” identifies how they make money. They use derivatives — futures, options, swaps, and other things so esoteric that i have no idea what they are. They use derivatives to leverage a small amount of money and turn it into a large amount of money. The successful ones make a great many risky trades, and hope that the winning trades outweigh the losing ones.
    .
    Soros would not be a multi-billionaire if he had used only his own money and if he had not used leverage to turn a little money into a lot. He LOVES derivatives, and probably has dozens of PhD mathmaticians on his staff to extract every last bit of profit from derivatives tradiing.
    .
    Buffett says he doesn’t like derivatives because he doesn’t understand them. That’s a good reason — but his company owns lots of companies and those other companies use all sorts of derivatives. Presumably the people making those trades in those companies know what they are doing. He owns interests in oil companies, which hedge everything. He owns interest in bank holding companies, including Wells Fargo, which hedge to reduce interest rate risk. He owns a big chunk of Walmart, which presumably hedges fuel costs for its fleet of trucks, and maybe exchange rate risks. He owns some of Kraft, which probably hedges agricultural commodity prices. And he owns some Coca-Cola, which almost certainly hedges exchange rate risks.
    .

  • nibblybits

    Uh, baustian, I’m well aware of what hedge funds do. (Likely a little more than you. wink) I didn’t say Soros is against derivatives, only that he has opinions on regulation and oversight. But thanks for “schooling” me. (Sorry, but I’m laughing a little.)

  • nibblybits

    Oh, and Warren Buffett understands derivatives too. (Maybe a little more than you and me. belly laugh)

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    George Soros mostly engaged in Arbitrage. That is what he was famous for.
    .
    He hardly invented it.
    .
    Arbitrage is trading currencies from one country to another to make a profit. That is if (random numbers, don’t bother me with the real numbers because that is not the point) $1 = 200 Yen = 90 Shekles = 1.2 Euros = .9 British pounds = $1.04, then he would circulate money along a route like that until he made a massive sum of money.
    .
    The right wing wishes to believe that self made = conservative. Not especially true. Being from a former Communist country = Conservative. More often true than not. Being a philanthropist = religious and being an atheist = selfish.
    .
    So a self made liberal billionaire from a former communist country who is an atheist and a philanthropist just scares the hell out of hard core conservatives. (Less hard core admit he is brilliant and a good man – but just don’t vote with him).
    .
    Then there is the spoiled little rich boy, religious fundamentalist Eric Price….
    .
    Rusty just can’t deal with the obvious fact that a liberal atheist is both far, far better than 99.99% of all people in the world of business (at least, if not more than that) and, with no God and reasonably progressive gives away money with the best of them.
    .
    George Soros is a man we should aspire to be more like.
    .
    (Sure, there are many religious philanthropists, but, if you don’t have the religion, don’t let that stop you from being a great guy.)

  • jbaustian

    I figured you as someone who abhorred financial manipulators. Soros is certainly no better and worse in many ways than the Ken Lay’s and Dennis Kozlowski’s and Bernie Ebbers of the world. He has better lawyers, he has settled civil cases for practically peanuts, he’s managed to avoid any indictments. He is “too big to fail”; prosecutors are scared to even look into his activies.
    .
    I do not dislike him because he is wealthy, or even because he’s done it via skillful trading instead of providing real goods or services. I’m sure the profits he’s generated for himself and his clients have done a great deal of good. But let no one harbor the misconception that he is a capitalist. He could not have accomplished all that he has without help from various governments, which some call “crony capitalism”.
    .
    What I question is what he’s done with his wealth. His philanthropies have been carefully designed to generate favorable publicity. To many people, his charities are not really charities at all — they are part of his political activities.
    .
    Go to his own website, http://www.soros.org/ and it almost looks as if he must be doing a lot of good work. Yet the activities in so many nations seem synchronized with his political and financial activities in those same nations. It is easy for him to use the charities to funnel money to politicians and political parties.
    .
    I do not like it that he played a large role in the election of Barack Obama — I would not like it even if our own side had our own big-spending billionaires. What I hate is that he’s helped to elect someone determined to spend the country into insolvency, and he uses his billions to influence voters so they will be inclined to support a bigger and more powerful government.
    .
    I do not claim to know his true long-term agenda. I can imagine a number of conspiracy theories, but the truth is probably something I cannot imagine.

  • jbaustian

    (cont.) It just seems odd that so many Lefties, who also do not know his long-term agenda, are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe his campaign of media manipulation is just incredibly successful — after all, Patrick, he sure has you fooled.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Soros is the founder of Soros Fund Management In 1970 he co-founded the Quantum Fund with Jim Rogers, which created the bulk of the Soros fortune. Rogers retired from the fund in 1980. Other partners have included Victor Niederhoffer and Stanley Druckenmiller.

    In 2007, the Quantum Fund returned almost 32%, netting Soros $2.9 billion.”
    .
    Where are the cronies?
    .
    Corney Capitalism is when Dick Cheney, AKA the Prince of Darkness, got a no-bid contract for Haliburton with W even though Haliburton is an oil exploration company.
    .
    W is a classic example of crony capitalism. His dad bought him companies and he drove his first one straight into the ground.
    .
    Soros is self-made.
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros#Business
    .
    Sorry, J, you are projecting again.
    .
    W had you fooled.
    .
    Soros is just a business man.

  • nibblybits

    “I figured you as someone who abhorred financial manipulators. Soros is certainly no better and worse in many ways than the Ken Lay’s and Dennis Kozlowski’s and Bernie Ebbers of the world. He has better lawyers, he has settled civil cases for practically peanuts, he’s managed to avoid any indictments. He is “too big to fail”; prosecutors are scared to even look into his activies.”
    .
    Really, baustian, you should stop. You are only revealing how very little you know.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    And “breaking the pound,” while a colorful title and story, just means that he forced the UK to devalue when it didn’t want to. That isn’t the same thing as bankrupting it.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “I figured you as someone who abhorred financial manipulators.”
    .
    First, Soros is nothing like a manipulator. He and his staff observed how the numbers didn’t match for particular currency trades and did transactions until they were balanced. In 1992 the English government was not readjusting things correctly so, their currency was out of balance. The English government kept on spending money on trying to balance it the wrong way while Soros made money. For rusty’s history, he was in America by 1970, bet against the pound in 1992 and then, while using his American investment group, escaped from England for making an investment. How did he escape from a place he did not call his home for twenty two years? Why would he have to escape for making an investment?
    .
    Second, manipulation is when businesses and/or wealthy individuals change market conditions or CEOs vote themselves an absurd sum of money which most reasonably would belong to the investors.
    .
    Third, Wal-Mart is a market manipulator due to it’s size it wipes out many small town downtowns and suppresses wages by being a near local monopoly on unskilled labor.
    .
    Fourth, Ken Lay among others, were fraudsters and, in Lay’s case, deeply tied to the second Bush administration. Fraud is, of course, very evil.
    .
    Sure, arbitrage is a mathematical game liberating market forces instead of creating something new, but, it is not manipulation and it is not dishonest or in the slightest way illegal.
    .
    The far right hates to see people from former communist countries who are liberal (since this attacks your world view), self made men who are liberal (world view) and atheist philanthropists (world view).
    .
    So, when he does something which in it’s nature does no harm, you make up things about him to make him sound awful.
    .
    On a business grounds, I would admire the founders of Google over Soros, but, that is not kicking Soros. I am, sure Soros did more with his life than you could in ten lifetimes.

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