Who Won the 2nd UK debate?

I need say nothing else. From Time’s London Bureau Chief Catherine Mayer:

Who won the second of the televised debates between the three men battling to be Britain’s next Prime Minister? The current Labour PM Gordon Brown? His Conservative challenger David Cameron? The Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg, elevated by last week’s debate from third-party nonentity to man of the moment?  Or Rupert Murdoch, media baron and potent force in Britain’s political life? The debate was screened on one of Murdoch’s satellite channels, Sky News, and moderated by Sky’s political editor, Adam Boulton, who led the campaign to hold such debates (which I backed, when asked, during an appearance on Boulton’s Sunday morning politics show last December).

Shortly after the debates had been agreed and finalized, I bumped into Adam in the media center at the Iraq Inquiry and he told me he was happy that Sky had drawn foreign affairs as its topic. I wasn’t surprised. It’s potentially the most interesting subject area for politics junkies, if rarely at the epicenter of election campaigns. Adam is one of Britain’s smartest interviewers and could have been expected, despite the 76 rules governing the interaction of the candidates, to tease some fascinating answers out of Messrs Brown, Cameron and Clegg on Afghanistan, Iran, China, the not-so-special relationship with Washington, and of course on the long-running trouser-dropping side-splitting farce that is Britain’s relationship with the European Union.

Foreign policy is arguably Cameron’s weakest suit – arguably because Cameron supporters will argue with that proposition. His attempt to assuage the Euroskeptics in his own party has pushed him into an uncomfortable alliance in the European Parliament with parties that don’t share his stated gay-friendly, prejudice-intolerant attitudes. But his Euroskepsis isn’t strong enough to fully convince anti-Europe hardliners.

Clegg is sufficiently pro-European to scare even pro-Europeans, but he knows his stuff on Europe, having served as a member of the European Parliament and worked for the European Commission. His biggest advantage in the debate might have been expected to be his party’s opposition to the Iraq war. His rivals were expected to attack Clegg on his policy of not renewing Britain’s nuclear subs.

As for Brown, his foreign policy is often indistinguishable from his economic policy. He has long argued for the reform of the international institutions. He’s absolutely right, but it’s not the easiest of topics to boil down to debating points. And on many other areas, not least the equipping of British troops in Afghanistan, he’s at the disadvantage of all long-term incumbents, lugging some pretty heavy baggage.

All of this promised a much sparkier debate than last week, and so it started, with the statesman-like reserve of the first encounter quickly giving way to a feisty series of exchanges that almost aspired to the rich, demotic phrasing of Australian politics. Clegg called Cameron’s European allies “nutters.” Brown called Cameron “anti-European” and Clegg “anti-American.” Cameron repurposed Brown’s embarrassingly fawning catchphrase from the first debate, “I agree with Nick,” to turn it against its progenitor and its subject. “I thought I’d never utter these words, but I agree with Gordon,” said the Conservative leader, siding with the Prime Minister on the need for Britain to have a nuclear deterrent.

 

But after a quick romp through topics that had been deemed to belong on the foreign agenda, including climate change (OK, fair enough) and the Pope’s planned September visit to Britain (well, the Pope is German), Boulton announced that this part of the debate was over. The entire second half of the discussion revolved around issues closer to home.

Admittedly these are the issues that are likely to decide the election. But it also focused attention on two issues most likely to slow or halt Clegg’s ascendancy in opinion polls. He was asked, by Boulton, about a newspaper story questioning donor payments into his personal bank account and the candidates also debated whether a hung parliament – a possible byproduct of Clegg’s popularity – would be bad for Britain.

In the end, neither of these questions appeared to trouble Clegg too seriously, and with Brown and Cameron performing far more strongly than in the first debate, all of them emerged with honor. An instant poll for ITV News by ComRes crowned Clegg the winner with 33% to Brown and Cameron’s 30% each. The hardest blow was sustained by Brown, forced to disavow campaign leaflets issued by his party’s own candidates that Cameron said tell “lies” about Conservative policy.

So how does any of this relate to Murdoch? His British tabloid newspapers, The Sun and the News of the World, have endorsed Cameron and are backing him to the hilt. A poor showing by Cameron – or another massive win for Clegg – might not have gone down well in some quarters. To see how high emotions are running, read this.  And this.  I don’t believe in conspiracy theories and there were strong editorial arguments for squeezing in the core election topics. It’s impossible to know if the result would have differed if the whole debate had centered on international issues. All I can say is that I would have enjoyed it more.

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Related Topics: david cameron, gordon brown, great britain, nick clegg, prime ministerial debate, 2012 Election, Budgets, Economy, Immigration
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  • michaelfury

    “I don’t believe in conspiracy theories”

    But they believe in you, Ms. Mayer.

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/memory-holes-in-the-floor/

  • deconstructiva

    Thanks, Jay. There IS something else you can say. Per your tweets, I can’t tell who won but did Brown and maybe Cameron lose with your pub crowd? reactions to “clean break in leadership” / “you’re all crooks and liars!” / “we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq”, etc. Hopefully you had fun (i.e. lots of drinking) while working and didn’t have to be carried out of the pub (or maybe tradition dictates you DO have to be carried out?).
    .
    Catherine, can you scan / post one of those leaflets Cameron blasted Brown over? Jay’s probably shared firsthand horror stories about Tea Party signs, slogans, etc. I hope your campaigns don’t have that crap. I wonder if “Get real!” will be THE debate phrase remembered. Thanks for your thoughts.

  • sevenoaks07

    My take: Brown and Cameron were routine. Clegg has nothing to lose so was a little more assertive. The most interesting part was the post debate interviews with the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the UKIP, Green Party and the BNP. Depending on how far you are from power you have all the answers, The SNP has actual governing experience so I paid attention. The others: not much.

    The Sky presenter was even handed and impressive because of that. I note your comment on Murdoch but I don’t see him as a force in UK politics. He is pretty much discredited because he is an opportunist. Was, is and will be.

    The audience: what a quiet lot. Very impressive. I don’t think our American gasbags would have been so even handed as the presenter.

  • cathmayer

    deconstructiva: Here’s a link to one of those leaflets: http://twitpic.com/1hl2eu This was posted by @henrymacrory who is the Conservative head of press. If you check his twitpics, you’ll find he’s posted 12 of these leaflets and letters from Labour candidates. And yes, if this debate had a catchphrase, it was “get real”

    sevenoaks07: Yes, Adam Boulton is a seriously impressive presenter. As to Murdoch – and by Murdoch I mean the Murdoch machine – is still a force in UK politics. You can argue, and I’d agree, that his papers don’t have the authority they did (although it was never entirely true that it was the Sun wot won it). But anyone with four big newspapers and a big broadcasting empire and a son-in-law who runs the most pervasive of all the PR operations cannot be deemed to lack influence.

  • deconstructiva

    Thanks, Catherine! However accurate or not, those leaflets are so much more polite. The Tea Party needs to learn a lot about civility. The Supreme Leader photo and “Welcome to Manchester” ad are good, too: better dressed people. Many Tea Party outfits are scary.

  • sevenoaks07

    Back when I was in the PMO in London our leaders were totally terrified of Rupert. I don’t think that his son-in-law arouses the same agitation on a Mandelson type although Tony Blair;s toadying was off putting.. The PR “son-in-law” operation is simply that; PR. I am inclined to the view that “The Nasty Rupert’s” days are over. I will be in the UK next week and plan to take an interest.

  • kbanginmotown

    Thank you for responding to commentary, Catherine.

  • gwbc

    How do you , your editors , and the shareholders justify your trip to London when you are just quoting another London based journalist who , unlike you, knows what she is writing about?

  • http://cunlinh007.wordpress.com cunlinh007

    Thank you verry much!!!!

  • deconstructiva

    She was there on other business before getting stranded. Pay attention already.

  • http://www.twitter.com/jnsmall Jay Newton-Small

    Um, its called a giant ash cloud that grounded all flights in London for six days so I leant a hand with coverage here whilest stranded. I wasn’t exactly loafing about: I produced four stories this week! With another two coming. And my trip to London wasn’t to cover Britih politics or, really anything in Europe, but to get hostile environment training so I can go to Afghanistan this summer.
    JNS

  • cathmayer

    Plus if I could have figured out a way to hold Jay hostage in London indefinitely, I would have done. If you’re immersed in a culture, it’s great to get reality checks and readings from someone with an outsider eye – and in Jay’s case, an outsider eye with impeccable political instincts and great contextual knowledge. Washington’s loss was, too briefly, London’s gain.

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