In the Arena

How Diplomacy Works–Cont.

It may be premature, but it seems to me that President Obama’s nuclear summit has yielded some very important diplomatic progress. Yes, the Indians and Pakistanis are still involved in their brotherly insanity, and yes, both Iran and North Korea are still international outlaws. But Ukraine has agreed to give up its highly enriched uranium (heu), a very important development–since the possibility that members of the former Soviet Union might sell their fissile material to the wrong people–or, more likely, have it stolen–has been a great fear of the post-cold war era.

Most important, though, is the apparent progress in getting the Russians and Chinese to agree to a new round of sanctions against the Iranian regime:

“The two presidents [Obama and Hu Jintao] agreed that the two delegations should work on a sanctions resolution in New York, and that’s what we’re doing,” said Jeffrey A. Bader, the National Security Council’s senior director for Asian affairs. The Chinese, he said, “made clear that they are prepared to work with us.”

These slow steps toward cooperation–after eight years of American neo-cowboyism–are how diplomacy begins. If it works and an atmosphere of mutual trust is created, larger steps become possible. For the moment, however, the President’s nuclear summit seems a good week’s job of work.

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  • sacredh

    Obama is trying to build a consensus. Bush Sr. understood the importance of that. His son was never able to grasp the significance of co-operation.

  • jbaustian

    Another Joe Klein butt-smooching moment — Obama’s heinie must be the sweetest ever.

  • artraveler

    It was that Maine “cowboy” upbringing.

  • homerhk

    just the very fact that he’s holding this summit speaks volumes in my view. the fact that there is some tangible achievment is icing on the cake. Obama is slowly but surely changing the global conversation and that is to be applauded not discouraged.

  • sacredh

    All hat. No cattle.

  • artraveler

    And the Republicant position is that loose nuclear materials that might get to the wrong people is just the “free market” working like it is supposed to?

  • kevin

    Everyone knows the almighty Invisible Hand will protect us from terrorists getting ahold of a nuke. The Prophet Rand foretold it!

  • justmy02cents

    Please Joe put down the BHO pom-poms….

    The Ukrainian HEU is terrific and I am pleased with that.

    The Ukrainians appear to have adopted a very PRO-US trajectory…this is a part of that ….didn’t they offer to provide a home for the medium range ballistic missles or the radars for them?

    I do not put as much stock as you in the US China meeting, simply because Hu Jintao is well aware the the Russians will NOT give in to greater/tougher sanctions and that the do-nothing UN will take years to agree on anything.

    Simply stated, Hu gave away NOTHING b/c he KNOWS the Russians will NOT GO ALONG, while China gives the appearance of co-operating.

  • justmy02cents

    seems as if it is Chicago politics as usual.
    /
    What should be a non-political event to benefit the entire world, as screamed by all the BHO lovers, is just another example of politics, Chicago style.
    /
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/04/at_nuclear_summit_obama_snubs.html
    /
    snubbing allies, not inviting potential friendly nations for the sake of headline grabbing over Turkey/Aremnia is self glorification by the Whitehouse.

  • charlieromeobravo

    yeah, I think that it’s taken a little over a year but we’re starting to see a pattern with Obama: talk, nudge, talk nudge, nudge, talk. Nothing flashy, just cool, quiet, and persistent. It doesn’t work super well in terms of message management (see the year of healthcare debate) but it does seem to get things done.

  • ilikechips

    Joe, when will you be joining your fellow liberal Time journo on the staff of Obambi. Your sucking up looks absolutely ridiculous. You would be qualified for chief asskissing czar.

  • charlieromeobravo

    I don’t think the phrase “Chicago style politics” means what you think it means. I think what you’re referring to as Chicago style politics is just Obama administration foreign policy priorities in reality. Or did someone change the definition of Chicago Style Politics to “things Obama does that I perceive to be a mistake”?

  • kevin

    Is Chicago-style politics like Chicago-style pizza?
    .
    Could you conservatives come up with a list of all the American states and cities you hate, so the rest of us could understand what counts as “real America”?
    .
    I know San Francisco is un-American because it has “San Francisco values,” and Massachusetts is un-American because it has the Kennedys, and New York City is only a place you care about for 9/11 photo-ops, and really the entire East Coast and West Coast are un-American because people with a coastline are ipso facto elitists, but it would help if you Real Americans™ could come up with a map or something.
    .
    I know the South is in there, of course. Nothing says “Real America” like seceding from the Union and committing treason against it.

  • kevin

    Or did someone change the definition of Chicago Style Politics to “things Obama does that I perceive to be a mistake”?
    .
    Probably. One of the funnier by-products of conservatives sealing themselves in their own little media cocoon is that they talk in a shorthand that the rest of us don’t understand.
    .
    Another example is the constant references to “BHO.” He never goes by those initials, but they use them all the time. I guess it’s to remind you that his middle name is Hussein and therefore he’s a Kenyan sleeper agent or something.
    .
    As for me, all it does is remind me that the person typing it is a grade-A a$$hole.

  • jbaustian

    Nuclear proliferation from Iran and Pakistan were not on the agenda, yet they are the greatest threat. So no BFD.

  • formerlyjames

    justmy02cents, laying aside the standard right wing response of anything about Obama being useless unless it bashes him, I did enjoy the link. Although you would find pleasure in the negative connotations for Obama in the writer’s words, I found it to be more broadly thought provoking. Thanks.

  • nflfoghorn

    Would you give these “plaudits” to him if he had written “flattering” stuff about W?

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Hands up, who here thinks that Russia is more likely to oppose sanctions than Iran?
    .
    Iran snubbed Russia on a deal Russia worked hard with America to get. Russia’s got a bit of an axe to grind. China, not so much

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    What the heck is wrong with me today?
    .
    Should read: “Hands up, who here thinks that Russia is more likely to oppose sanctions than China?”

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Kevin: as much as I somewhat agree with you about those suspicions, it really isn’t that uncommon to refer to Presidents by their initials – JFK and GWB being the two most common.

  • nflfoghorn

    @ Kevin, 5.3: Since that body part serves a useful function, don’t you think that’s an unintended term of endearment?

  • jbaustian

    Okay, there was some big news to come out of the “summit” — there will be another nuclear security conference in two years. International conferences are, after all, the reason for holding international conferences. Each conference must end with a statement, and 15 minutes later the world is exactly the way it was before the conference.
    .
    Regarding Ukraine… was it necessary to bring together the leaders of 47 nations to get Ukraine to do something that was already in its own interest, that it was already prepared to do, and that could have been arranged with a few phone calls by lower-level officials?

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Since when does Chicago politics deal with foreign policy?

  • kevin

    it really isn’t that uncommon to refer to Presidents by their initials – JFK and GWB being the two most common.
    .
    Oh, sure. But those presidents made the decision themselves to be called by their initials.
    .
    Both JFK and LBJ employed their initials in their campaign signs, etc., as a way of not too subtly linking themselves to FDR, much as FDR did it to link himself to the original initialist, TR.
    .
    As for GWB, that’s partly journalistic shorthand (to distinguish himself from his father GHWB) but largely a result of his embrace of the “Dubya” label. It was Bush-Cheney 2004 that spread those “W. The President” stickers out across America.
    .
    With Obama, the “BHO” thing is solely done by his detractors. I can’t think of a single instance in which it’s been written or said without a sneering tone attached.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Another Joe Klein butt-smooching moment — Obama’s heinie must be the sweetest ever.”
    .
    “You would be qualified for chief asskissing czar.”
    .
    Leaving aside the obvious knee-jerking here, what is with the right-wing’s obsessive use of juvenile sexual metaphors for anything they don’t like? Its getting kinda creepy…

  • formerlyjames

    kevin, seriously, you are treading on right wing logic here. Those are Obama’s initials. No big deal. His name is his name. The most extreme right wingers have already beaten his middle name into the ground as if it really matters.

  • kbanginmotown

    momentomori:
    .
    You’re right! Just last month they were getting HCR “rammed down their throats.”
    .
    Another issue, another metaphor…

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    I’d also point out that it’s an irrelevant detail. Ok, so he’s Barrack Hussein Obama. Has every William you met cheated on his wife? Has every George you met been unable to think his way out of a paper bag? Why do we put a different standard for Hussein? It’s his name, it’s who he is and if the left embraces his name as not being what defines the President but just a matter of who he is, then it really doesn’t matter how many times the right tries to emphasize Hussein. After all, it was King George III that was overthrown 200 years ago and it doesn’t seem to have prevented a George-based disaster from arriving in the White House.
    .
    It’s the Muslim thing all over again: “No the President is not a Muslim, but even if he was, so what?”

  • kbanginmotown

    forgottenlord:
    .
    Der Spiegel reports that Medvedev is warning against harsher sanctions, afraid it would hurt the Iranian People: (link) .
    .
    I wonder if China and Russia are playing good/bad cop?

  • kbanginmotown

    Sarkozy: “We’ve downsized our nuclear arsenal enough.”
    (Der Spiegel).

  • broknbuddha

    I fail to see how their is any down-side to this summit. Reducing nukes in the world, securing and diluting existing stockpiles, improving foreign relations – this is a win-win all around.
    The only real argument against this summit seems to be that Obama called it and that it was successful.

  • kbanginmotown

    I see that a couple of “Oh, Shiny!” posts have killed this thread…*sigh*…

  • justmy02cents

    Forgottenlord @ 4.2

    /
    /
    ME
    /
    /
    Russia has massive investments in Iranian nuclear programs, and Iran owes Russia big $$$$…it seems counter-intuitive to think they will crack down hard on Iran….
    /
    And YES China and Russia are playing good cop/bad cop…and WE are the losers here….
    /
    Iran will join the nuclear club, attack Israel or a US base in the middle east and Russia and China will say “our hearts are with you” then do nothing.
    /

  • justmy02cents

    formerlyjames @ 5.4,

    my thoughts were provoked as well….
    /
    I disregarder the bashing and you should too.
    /
    the salient point being made is that this convocation SHOULD have been an open, transpearant, and “big tent” type event…..instead, the Whitehouse, played geopolitik gamesmanship by who is invited, who makes the final cut for the important meeting, and sending a “headline grabber” , that probably was well in the works already, to the slobbering media eager to credit President Obama with accomplishing anything.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    While I accept I’m wrong on the Russia thing, the absurdity of the idea that Iran would attack either Israel or a US base with their first nuke astounds me.
    .
    A) Between the US and Israel, the number of bombs dropped on Iran would be EXPECTED to be beyond count. No nation would get in the way of them blowing Iran back to the stone age. Mere concepts of proportional response would let them do that
    B) If Iran were to do it with their second nuke, they would have pretty minimal deterrent.
    C) Your claims completely ignore the entire concept of Detente that ruled the world for 40 years
    D) Far more likely is that Iran would use its status as a nuclear power to apply pressure to Israel on issues like Palestine and settlements (likely resulting in the US giving Israel its own nuclear toys) and prevent Israel from being the aggressors in further wars in the region. In effect, it would set up a more dangerous and active state of Detente in the Middle East. While that is incredibly dangerous, it is far from a guarantee of WWIII being started and it certainly won’t happen because of some cowboy nuke-from-the-hip urge on the part of the Iranians.

  • justmy02cents

    broknbuddha,

    see @5.10

    this meeting HAD great potential that was squandered by turning it into a media circus complete with Obama cheerleaders in full force…you among them
    /

  • sacredh

    OTOH…ummmmmmm.donuts.

  • justmy02cents

    Kevin,

    Thank you for enlightening us all ov er the proper use of initials to describe President Obama….
    /
    Of more interest is your take on the squandered opportunity taking place in Washington today….
    /
    By playing geopolitik with the invitations, seating, who attends the 12 person breakout session, and trumpeting an already accomplished deal on HEU from Ukraine, the president took a historical opportunity and made it a media event.

  • scohen305
  • textee

    The nuclear freeze, anti-military dumb @ss, who thinks U.S. Navy corpsmen are “corpse men”, considers himself an “expert” on nuclear arms, and his useful idiots (i.e., the entire Washington/New York/American press corps) agrees!

  • broknbuddha

    Obama cheerleader? Well, that’s certainly a surprise for me.
    “This meeting HAD great potential that was squandered by turning it into a media circus ”
    So… what potential exactly is it that was squandered? What outcomes were you looking for at the summit that you didn’t see?
    Your argument still seems to be that the summit was a failure because it was covered by the news media and that it was obviously a failure because Barrack Obama was involved.
    As for “playing geopolitik with the invitations”, could you point out Azerbaijan or Georgia on a map? Can you explain how closer ties with Georgia will help our country? Something better than gaining Russian support for sanctions against Iran, a real threat?

  • broknbuddha

    the last sentence should have read ‘Can you explain how better ties with Georgia are more important than gaining Russian support for sanctions against Iran?

  • apollyon07

    I will be very surprised if Iran does not have nuclear weapons capability within 10 years. I’m pretty pessimistic with things like this but it just seems inevitable to me.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Is it a good time to mention that this isn’t the first time that Dana Milbank has been a freaking crybaby?

  • justmy02cents

    The Russia is run by a bunch of former KGB agent thugs and cannot be trusted to serve any interests other than Putin’s.
    /
    Ask the polish people if they are suspicious of the plane crash that killed their President and many other members of the government..I have and they are.
    /
    Ask Viktor Andriyovych Yushchenko what he thinks of the Russian thugs who poisoned him with dioxin.
    /
    We would do well to embrace any of the former USSR states/republics that share our interests in a peaceful and prosperous existence…ESPECIALLY if the tweak the Russian’s.
    /
    Russia will never support crippling sanctions against Iran, Iran owes Russia a fortune for the nuclear projects that they have underway, already completed, and weapons systems…
    Russia is playing both sides of the fence and you foolishly are buying into it.
    /
    They are not our friends, they are our enemy and are didicated to our failure and demise as a nation.
    /
    The US and China are all that has held them back from first dominating Asia, Middle East, and Eastern Europe.
    /
    and and to answer your question …YES I can pick them out on the map and know for certain that every one of the former USSR republics that become a democracy with free elections, personal liberty, and a free-enterprise system pose a massive threat to Russia and the Islamic Republic.

  • GivenUp

    I find it interesting that according to some of the articles related to that one North Korea of all places has actually been much more cooperative regarding its nuclear program than either India or Israel.

    Does this mean that the US has the ability to accomplish things with the pressure it brings to bear?

  • broknbuddha

    You still have not answered my question about what great potential was squandered at the summit. Also, what bad side effects of the summit are bothering you so fiercely?

    As for the Polish plane crash… yeah, that was my first thought too. It’s theoretically possible that the plane just went down on it’s own, but it’s such a convenient assassination method, it is hard not to look for any benefiting parties.

    “Russia will never support crippling sanctions against Iran, Iran owes Russia a fortune for the nuclear projects that they have underway, already completed, and weapons systems…”

    This may also be true. It is certainly a reasonable argument. However, Russia has been putting a lot more pressure on Iran to conform. This is evidenced by Russia’s offer to convert Iran’s nuclear fuel. Both Russia and China are far closer to passing the next round of sanctions than they have been in years. Whether sanctions actually happen – and whether those sanctions have any effect – remains to be seen. We’ll know it when it happens. Or doesn’t happen.

    “They are not our friends, they are our enemy and are didicated to our failure and demise as a nation.”

    I doubt it. Not anymore than we are dedicated to their demise and failure as a nation.

    Not to be trite, but who’s got the time? I have had friends from all around the globe, from every continent, both rich and poor, including many from the former eastern bloc nations. Mostly, people are just people. They get up early in the morning and spend most of their waking hours at work. They have busy lives and care about their families. The idea that the purpose of their lives and of their government is to destroy ours is irrational. Not just irrational, foolish. It is a bit like believing the universe revolves around the earth. Do you think you are really that important to them? Are you still scared of Red Dawn? The Russians have more important matters going on, a la LIFE.
    Will Russia always be our rival? Yeah, probably so. We both fit in the same mold. It makes us natural rivals. Is Russia our enemy? They don’t have to be. China and Japan were our enemies, and not that long ago. Now we have strong economic ties with both of them. I realize the cold war with Russia may never be completely over; not while the cold war generation is still at the helm. Nationalists on both sides still suspect each other deeply. This will probably remain true until such a time as we have close economic ties between the two countries.

    Countries “that share our interests in a peaceful and prosperous existence…ESPECIALLY if the tweak the Russian’s.”
    How do you get to peaceful and prosperous existence while at the same time tweaking the Russians? Or do you mean you only want peaceful and prosperous relations with certain countries?

    The real question is, what is the advantage of continuing aggressive relations with the Russians?
    You assume that if we can just hold back the Russians, the result will be “republics that become a democracy with free elections, personal liberty, and a free-enterprise system” – that seems pretty unlikely. New governments have been springing up all over the globe since America became a nation. Some of them chose democracy. A lot of them did not. In the end, that’s their business. We are not the World Police.

  • swissArmyBrainBETA

    the applause the president receives for his approach to foreign policy is certainly noted. I’ve only paid attention to foreign policy for a little while and the successes and failures of this administration will likely decide what I think about the prioritization of “engaging” unfriendly/hostile rulers for a long time. We’ll see how this works out. I’ll give it plenty of time, but if the real results aren’t what all the cheer-leading by democrats I read (like Klein) would lead me to expect, I don’t think I’ll be listening to them anymore.

    The reasoning behind cold, national interest calculations and manipulation as advocated by, say, Bolton, SEEM more plausible than “co-operation” to me but I don’t trust my instincts for foreign policy much more than I trust them for the physics of electricity and magnetism. This will be a mind shaping experience for me and many others I’m sure – hopefully one that does not involve Khamenei with a bomb

  • formerlyjames

    The rant on Russia is nonsense. Pure bs. The plane crash occurred as Russia and Poland were joining in remembrance of a massacre by Stalin that the current Russian government has acknowledged. Poland and Russia are even closer as a result of the crash because of the class shown by Russia after. Russian air controllers has tried to divert the plane to Moscow.
    ..
    Visit Russia. You will find the most educated, civil, cultured place you have ever been. Welcome to 2010 out of the 1950s McCarthy era.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Oh come on!! I’m a Democrat, a social policy liberal and I voted for Obama. But we dems shouldn’t be reading anything into the right’s use of Obama’s initials. By doing so, we just egg them on for more of their nonsense. And if they think the not-so-subtle reminder of his middle name is anything that would be offensive, they are wrong. Obama, himself, reminded everybody of his middle name when he said “I Barrack Hussein Obama…” during his inaugeration even after the judge had left out his middle name.

  • http://bodyg.wordpress.com bodyg

    Frankly I do not believe them, sometimes changing international issues, and today a good friend, an enemy tomorrow.
    http://bodyg.wordpress.com

  • tharwatfawzi

    All in the world pray for the success of
    President Obama – with other world leaders -in the struggle to reach a world free from nuclear arms.

  • justmy02cents

    formerlyjames, broknbuddha, and swissarmybrain,

    You have given me much to digest and agree/disagree with.

    Unfortunately, I cannot provide a thoughtful response today, but will do so in the next few days, please check back then.

    I am enthralled that the discussion on this thread has become so thought provoking and reasonable, I am glad the knee-jerk club has left the building and the placard carriers went out with them…

    TTYL

  • justmy02cents

    While I am gone, please locate and view “The English Surgeon” which is an independent film about an English surgeon visiting the Ukraine to treat patients and train a local doctor.

    Another point: I have no qualms with the Russian people, just their leaders who are a bunch of thugs and truely enemies of America.

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