Morning Must Reads: Hu’s In Town?

White House

Official White House Photo by Pete Souza

–Leaders from 46 countries have descended on Washington for this week’s nuclear summit. Whether anything beyond mere symbolism can be achieved is not yet clear.

–The meeting to watch today? Obama’s sit-down with Chinese President Hu Jintao. He needs to lock up China’s support for U.N. sanctions against Iran.

–Obama says his biggest concern is a nuclear al Qaeda.

–At the SRLC, Haley Barbour continued to boost big tent conservatism. The Mississippi governor and RGA chair is highly respected in the party and usually has a very good ear for politics, but his dismissal of the McDonnell slavery omission Sunday was a mistake. Putting the historical and moral errors aside, here’s the political problem: It invariably leads to headlines like, “Another Southern Republican Governor…” and continues a media narrative that can do long-term damage. Larry Sabato tweets: “By mid-century half of all Americans will be members of minority groups. Dems get 75% of all minority votes. Republicans:Do the simple math!”

Chris Cillizza looks at his growing influence.

Tom Schaller does the Borda Count on the SRLC straw poll ballot. When second choices are factored in, Romney’s victory margin is wider. Not that the straw poll means much.

–The New York Times explains how, just like 2010, there were also congressional elections held in the year 1994. Fascinating!

–With neither Republicans nor Democrats interested in scrapping over social issues, Mark Halperin writes “this could end up being one of the most anticlimactic Supreme Court confirmations of the modern era.”

–Rather than scrutinizing the nominee’s positions on abortion or gay marriage, Republicans may well be more interested in questioning Obama’s SCOTUS pick on government “overreach.”

–The National Bureau of Economic Research hasn’t called the recession yet.

–I linked to a few stories last week that were positively sunny on the economy. Kevin Drum lists 10 things that keep him up at night. He’s not doomsaying, just pointing out that recovery is likely to happen slowly, and that our options are severely limited if things were to go south.

Ezra Klein and Felix Salmon both highlight a new paper on financial innovation and crises. The problem it sketches out is this: Financial innovation produces new, elegant mathematical devices that package debt with the promise of high returns for low risk. Investors flock to them, but sooner or later some of the untested instruments blow up. Even a small blip in the data can cause panic. With highly leveraged financial institutions left with a handful of these things, the damage is magnified. If dealing with institutions’ size and leverage aren’t enough, the financial sector will continue to have problems. I think the challenge is largely cultural: just because no one understands new financial instruments or the risks they carry doesn’t mean people won’t buy into them (literally and figuratively.)

–The St. Pete Times profiles Kendrick Meek, the Democrat waiting in the wings for the Crist/Rubio battle royale to wrap up.

–The Inquirer looks at Joe Sestak, the once establishment up-and-comer now bucking the party by primarying Specter.

–And Tina Fey presents “The Sarah Palin Network.”

What did I miss?

Related Topics: 2012 Election, Barack Obama, Congress, Democratic Party, Economy, Iran, Miscellany, Republican Party, White House
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    The Phony War: Obama and Romney Are Debating Character, Not Policy

    More than five months from Election Day, the back-and-forth about Mitt Romney’s record at Bain already feels played out. Unfortunately, there’s good reason to expect the campaign continues in this vein indefinitely. Neither Barack Obama nor Mitt Romney are terribly interested in dwelling on policy platforms. Romney’s plan to slash spending and keep taxes low on the wealthy isn’t especially popular, at least not at any level of detail beyond a blithe promise to shrink the deficit. Meanwhile, Obama’s signature first-term achievements, like health care, the stimulus and Wall Street reform, are all unpopular or tricky to sell. (The Dodd-Frank bill is the most popular of these, but hyping it means offending wealthy donors.) So what we’re getting instead is a superficial duel about character–and, worse, one that’s based on the largely false premise that the better man can better “manage” the economy back to health.

  • michaelfury

    “Obama says his biggest concern is a nuclear al Qaeda.”

    Except that there is no “al Qaeda”.

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/the-talented-mr-pearlman/

  • 53_3

    So Hu’s on first?
    .
    Oh, btw, freeinpa:
    .
    When I present facts, it’s always better to rebut my commentary in the same manner, showing proof that your opinions have validity than it is to fling gratuitous insults and run like hell.
    .
    It really helps my case to do that because it shows that:
    1. You have no supporting documentation
    2. You are emphasizing that you have no supporting documentation.
    .
    People can see under your skirt when you do that…

  • newfreedomblog

    Any news on the Big Union failure to fund their pensions? The GAO reports that the Auto Unions are under funded by over 17 BILLION dollars. Is that the next big bailout for the tax payers of the United States to be made to pay for? You can read more here, http://www.newfreedomblog.com
    .

    “The GAO said in a report that the future of those plans “remains uncertain” as the companies struggle to make money again.”

    .
    http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/04/future_of_automaker_pensions_u.html
    .
    The nuclear problem for Obama is a major concern, and I am sure you had the need to post this story, but where is the plan to bring back jobs? To get our economy out of the stagnation we are seeing now with our economy.
    .
    Obama just needs to put on the stiff sanctions for Iran, and the hell with China or Russia. Just do it already. Make it a priority just like you did with Health Care Reform, Mr President. Just do it.

  • kbanginmotown

    Adam, your headline reminds me to check the WayBack Machine…
    .

  • sacredh

    “What did I miss?”

    Roger waters goes on tour starting this September performing The Wall in in honor of it’s 30th anniversary. I read it this morning and immediately called work to tell them I was either taking a vacation day or to mark me down sick. I wouldn’t be there no matter what.

  • 53_3

    Is anyone else from Pink Floyd going to be on tour with him?

  • grape_crush
  • sacredh

    No. Full orchestra and state of the art effects. I saw the 33rd anniversary tour of Dark Side of the Moon in 2006 and it was great. I’m seriously thinking of blowing off the whole week and going to the Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Columbus shows. When I called in to work just a few minutes ago I told the boss I might skip the whole week to attend the shows and semi-jokingly told him if I couldn’t get the week off, I’m turning in my notice. (I am eligible to retire in 9 weeks). He told me to go ahead and get tickets for all three shows.

  • pneogy

    ‘Putting the historical and moral errors aside, here’s the political problem: It invariably leads to headlines like, “Another Southern Republican Governor…” and continues a media narrative that can do long-term damage.’

    How about putting the cosmetics aside once in a while and focusing on the historical and moral errors?

  • albertofuente

    Chris Cilliza has influence? Lord help us all.

  • freeinpa

    IQ53

    I don’t have access to or care about the “liberal facts” you present.

    The one universal fact that continues to come through is that the extreme left helped but the impotent MSM continue to be the biggest supplies of racism. They(and you) see racism in every act, phrase and reaction. True or facts as you like to call them never get in the way.

  • michaelfury

    Whose “biggest concern” should it be that whoever did this may have nuclear weapons?

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

  • conversets

    It appears that Swampland comments has now turned into the “Pimp My Blog” show.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “I don’t have access to or care about the “liberal facts” you present.”
    .
    Ladies and gentlemen, the right-wing philosophy in a nutshell. If it doesn’t support their ideology, it must not be true.
    .
    This is how they know evolution is a ruse, global warming isn’t happening, etc, etc, etc.

  • sacredh

    What did I miss?

    The Vatican has officially forgiven The Beatles and has called their music a “great jewel”.

    I remember when John Paul was named Pope. George, Ringo were jealous.

  • Adam Sorensen
  • grape_crush

    And Tina Fey presents “The Sarah Palin Network.”

    Suprising that it wasn’t presented as a 24×7 infomercial…

    Come to think of it, if the modern GOP is akin to a multi-level marketing scheme like Amway, then Fox News Channel would be equivalent to the Home Shopping Network.

  • freeinpa

    Actually it is page 1 out of the liberal handbook and is demonstrated here daily. Opinion is “fact”. If you disagree or put out a contrary opinion. It is a lie. When that fails it goes straight to character assassination and for the coup de grace- you must be a racist, sexist or homophobe.

    And when caught in the lie, liberals ignore and pronounce “it has been decided”. The biggest lie is to themseleves.

  • freeinpa
  • kbanginmotown

    Romney is tight with the DeVos/Amway crowd over in Grand Rapids. You may be on to something…

  • nflfoghorn

    The old Buckley used to at least try to support his agruments with facts. Neocons/tea baggers don’t even try because to them “liberal facts” aren’t facts at all, therefore our opinions aren’t really opinons. Ergo, I guess we’re dead to them. Whatever, right?

  • nflfoghorn

    Off politics, it’s good to see someone with a personal life in crises NOT OF HIS CREATION win a golf tournament.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “And when caught in the lie, liberals ignore and pronounce “it has been decided”.”
    .
    Examples, Freepy? Got any?
    .
    And is evolution a “liberal lie”? Because the majority of Republicans think it is. What about global warming? In fact, I’d like one example of science-denying conservatives being right.
    .
    But you won’t have any. You’ll just accuse me of calling you a racist, or you’ll call me ‘godless’ again, or some other passive aggressive attempt to paint yourself as a martyr.
    .
    Maybe I’ll get lucky and you’ll call me an ‘elitist’ – I always like that one…

  • nflfoghorn

    Freep, your rationalization process goes from point A to point F, bypassing B,C,D and E along the way. Just admit that you hate Obama and go away (we wish).

  • sacredh

    Yeah. I know what you mean. I saw him kissing a blonde woman to celebrate and my first thought was “Is that Tiger’s wife?” It was his own.

  • nflfoghorn

    OMG! Where’s TMZ when you need ‘em???
    .
    “Did you learn anything?” the dead man said to his son.

  • sacredh

    This is funny. My boss just called back and said that he mentioned to the guys at break time that I was taking time off to go to the concerts and 4 out of the 7 guys asked for the day off too. I’m willing to bet that the other guys are going to have to try to get somebody to switch turns so they can go. Including bosses, only 16 people work at our installation.

  • Ivy_B

    Orrin Hatch signals willingness to judge SCOTUS nominee on basis of qualifications, not ideaology. However he does hold out a caveat against an activist judge, which has come to mean a judge who doesn’t agree with you.

    “I can say if the president picks somebody who is clearly qualified, I think there’s no question we can get that person through in a relatively short period of time,” Hatch said. “I don’t see any problem if the person is highly qualified.”

    Now, it’s true that Hatch also went on to warn that “if he picks an activist judge,” then Republicans “ought to do everything in our power to defeat that person.” This leaves Hatch some wiggle room to declare the pick unqualified on the grounds that he or she doesn’t grasp the proper role of a SCOTUS justice.

    Nonetheless, Hatch set a standard for quick confirmation of any choice who is “qualified.” This seems to be going farther than other Republican Senators in that Hatch is laying down qualifications, rather than ideology, as the key standard that Obama’s pick has to meet.

    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/senate-republicans/orrin-hatch-if-nominee-is-qualified-gop-will-confirm-quickly/

  • grape_crush

    A glimpse of Obama’s America
    .
    [A reminder exclusively for Freeper, in case he forgot].

  • sacredh

    I want an atheist, activist, gay, socialist judge. Nothing else is acceptable.

  • nflfoghorn

    I don’t give a darn is the shortstop :)

  • Ivy_B

    sacred, no reason that person couldn’t be highly qualified.

  • sacredh

    Ivy_B, I want diversity on the Supreme Court. I also want someone that might cause Clarence Thomas to ask a question. Even if it’s just “Could you please sit next to somebody else?”.

  • freeinpa

    “”And when caught in the lie, liberals ignore and pronounce “it has been decided”.”

    =
    Check out any “debate” on global warming before the email leaks and fudged data showed up. (or the destroying of original data which no true scientist would ever do) Have not heard much about we will be dead soon without an economy killing crap & trade bill. The only site we see is Algore fat a*s running away from cameras.

    http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/13830/?a=f

    ==

    Or how about the “science” of glaciers melting?

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/01/20/glacier.himalayas.ipcc.error/index.html

    It seems a student backpacking and saying” yep they be meltin” passes for science
    ==

    Maybe I’ll get lucky and you’ll call me an ‘elitist
    =
    You misspelled idiot but and calling you godless would be redundant

    ==
    “Freep, your rationalization process goes from point A to point F, bypassing B,C,D and E along the way”

    You confuse that will liberal logic. For example, Point A liberals against death penalty (for folks who reneged on their membership in the human race). We value life. Point E pro-abortion (for those most vulnerable among us. the unborn). Its a choice not a life.
    ==
    “Just admit that you hate Obama and go away (we wish).”

    See you were this close to yelling racist! I don’t hate Obama, I believe his policies are and will destroy this country. And what really ticks you and most liberals off is that you can no longer spread your crap with impunity. You wish we all go away. Not happenin’ Deal with it.

    .

  • nflfoghorn

    As justices go, Thomas is as lame-o as they come.

  • freeinpa

    Hard to forget the country sliding down a rat hole on a daily basis by implementing policies that have crippled economies worldwide.

    SZ: Now do you understand why maybe Japan’s HC system may be a problem?

  • sacredh

    His Greta Garbo imitation is wearing a little thin.
    .
    Thomas Talks!

  • nflfoghorn

    YOU said I’m imploring you to call BO a racist to prove a point that neocons/tea baggers are racist. I never said anything about race (see 15.4 below). That’s all on you. I simply said you hate him and his politics.
    .
    So if you won’t go away you know you’re subjecting yourself to well-deserved scorn, of which you will refer back to your super-genius, knee-jerk (emphasis on…the latter IMO), conservative intellect for moral and intellectual superiority. As the world turns, bub.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Should we start calling Freeper’s rants as entirely based in “Neocon Facts” also known as “undiluted b*******”?

  • nflfoghorn

    “Thomas Talks!”
    .
    He just gets paid by the speech.

  • nflfoghorn

    @2.10: Undiluted means that it’s more powerful than it is, which it is not.

  • apr2563

    Adam, are you serious. I don’t think Republicans want to go near government overreach. No administration has overreached more than Bushes.
    I know that they consider overreach as meaning social issues but if Dems have any guts they will expand the Reps definition.

  • apr2563

    read his selection of most influential Republicans and then name one who could become President and one you would want campaigning for you in a general election. Pathetic.

  • kbanginmotown

    Say, what’s up with the comment count?
    .
    39…40…42…just in the last minute. Anyone get deleted?

  • freeinpa

    “I never said anything about race (see 15.4 below). That’s all on you. I simply said you hate him and his politics”

    Ah so you dislike the assumption. It is standard liberal crap. Oppose health care racist. Dislike socialism politics – racist. The liberals here and the MSM at every turn twist or imagine every phrase or act that disagrees with Obama to be racist-based. I am just following that great leap of faith that liberals use.

    I am sure 15.4 relates somehow. I guess its ok to hate blacks if they are conservative comes to mind.
    ==
    “So if you won’t go away you know you’re subjecting yourself to well-deserved scorn,”

    Wow, name calling by liberals. Now that will shock me. As forgotenload has proven.

  • megatronrises

    Quote from the article Freeinpa linked to:
    .
    “Speaking at the World Future Energy Summit in Abu Dhabi Wednesday, the IPCC chairman, Rajendra Pachauri admitted errors had been made but said it was not an excuse to question the legitimacy of all global warming science.
    .
    ‘Theoretically, let’s say we slipped up on one number, I don’t think it takes anything away from the overwhelming scientific evidence of what’s happening with the climate of this earth,’ he said, according to Agence France-Presse.”
    .
    Okay, some data was incorrect. I’m willing to admit that, as I am sure most people are. It doesn’t mean global warming isn’t happening, and it doesn’t mean liberals are engaging in a world wide conspiracy to promote a lie.
    .
    Now that I’ve admitted that, will you admit that the estimation of 16,500 armed IRS agents is total BS?

  • megatronrises

    Obama can’t just put stiff sanctions on Iran. Russia & China have vetoes on the Security Council. Without them we’ve got nothing.

  • freeinpa

    “No administration has overreached more than Bushes”

    We should congratulate Apr2563 who apparently awoke today from her coma that began Jan. 19, 2000.

  • sacredh

    nfl, it amazes me that Thomas doesn’t ask questions. He doesn’t ask for clarifications. He doesn’t question anybody’s logic. He doesn’t refer to past precedents. He just sits there and then votes with the conservatives at the end of the day. I don’t like Scalia, but at least he does get involved. The most you can say about Thomas is that he’s physically present.

  • nflfoghorn

    “…Ah so you dislike the assumption. It is standard liberal crap. Oppose health care racist. Dislike socialism politics – racist. The liberals here and the MSM at every turn twist or imagine every phrase or act that disagrees with Obama to be racist-based. I am just following that great leap of faith that liberals use….”
    .
    Dude, just put down the crack pipe. You’re making stuff up.

  • apr2563

    I have never been a golf fan. Played once. Who invented this game?
    1. Need 140 to 250 acres
    2. Put in 18 small holes
    3. Put in some sand pits and water
    4. Give players sticks to hit balls into holes
    5. Have lots to drink after the game (well, that is understandable)
    6. If possible restrict membership
    7. Maintenence of course can be done by minorities
    /
    Question: Did they play that pathetic Nike ad during the game? After all we wouldn’t want slave labor employer Nike to lose business.

  • sacredh

    Somebody might be in moderation.

  • apr2563

    freeper, you must be in agreement with me.

  • megatronrises

    You mean the devastating policy of passing a stimulus that brought us back from the brink of another Great Depression? How terrible!

  • nflfoghorn

    @apr2563: Nope. The He-Man Wimmin-Haters Club (aka Augusta National) restricts the broadcast hours of the tune-a-mint, the number of commercials shown therein and the advertisers themselves. This year it was IBM, AT&T and ExxonMobil. For years it was Cadillac, Citi and Big Blue.

  • nflfoghorn

    He’s paid to SIT. What has Herb Dubya wrought? Good grief.

  • apr2563

    Ah ha! Thanks for the info nflfoghorn.

  • freeinpa

    “Theoretically, let’s say we slipped up on one number, I don’t think it takes anything away from the overwhelming scientific evidence of what’s happening with the climate of this earth,’ he said, according to Agence France-Presse.”
    .
    Okay, some data was incorrect. I’m willing to admit that, as I am sure most people are. It doesn’t mean global warming isn’t happening”

    “Theoretically”? That ship sailed its not theory. He has to defend it or his life’s work is crap. And no most people are not willing to admit that data is incorrect as the quote you posted proved- “theoretically” is not an admission but a cover-up. By you reasoning, it doesn’t mean global warming is happening.
    ==
    Then you shift to a usual liberal tactic- misdirection. Global warming has nothing to do with IRS agents. Neither you nor I know how many if any IRS agents may be needed. To say otherwise is disingenuous. Given the changes in tax law that will come as a result, it is reasonable to assume more will be needed. Democrat Wasserman-Schultz ( a major supporter of HC reform) stated in a speech that there is no mandate to buy insurance. The left is making more out of the IRS agents than a writer of the bill (and who voted for it) who doesn’t know what’s in it.

    Not a surprise but typical.

  • nflfoghorn

    No prob. I kinda wish Anthony Kim had won just to see the looks on those guys’ faces.

  • freeinpa

    No the one we passed that promised to keep unemployment at no higher than 8%. Oops couldn’t have been that one either.

  • nflfoghorn

    Freep, RE 14.6 – expressed mentions of racism? Meant it.

  • Ivy_B

    Tea Party candidate for NY Gov has done a lot of e-mailing. Dreadful how much cr@p goes around.

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/tea_party_gov_candidates_racist_sexually_graphic_e.php?ref=fpblg

  • freeinpa

    Hate the face of reality don’t you!

  • nflfoghorn

    @ Sacredh: I think Amy was wearing a wig. Which is OK if that’s what she wanted to do. Going bald thru treatment ain’t a bad option either.

  • nflfoghorn

    Closed-captioned for Freep:
    .
    PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE. YOU’RE MAKING STUFF UP!!!

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Republican, neo-cons never cease to amaze me. On the one hand, they yell and scream that gov’t is too big. They don’t want every citizen in this country to have access to health care.

    On the other hand, unemployment is high and instead of advocating for the “market” to correct itself and bring back the jobs, the neo-cons want gov’t. to do it.

    Hypocrits.

  • freeinpa

    Another tenet, if a liberal disagrees it has to be wrong. Sucks to have you entire life and beliefs to be a lie. And you entire defense is to name call whiel you lie to yourself about reality.

  • nflfoghorn

    OMG! I don’t believe in reincarnation but George Wallace’s soul traveled somewhere!

  • 53_3

    You can always hack off a digit or two and say it’s an accident.
    .
    Either that or you can hope you have more seniority…

  • 53_3

    Come to think of it, I just realized:
    .
    If others in your workplace have already decided to do the same thing, you could wind up in an office conflict with the combatants flinging severed digits at one another.
    .
    Not good…

  • 53_3

    Wow. This is almost, but not quite, as good as a severed-digit flinging knock-down drag-out fight at Sacred’s place of work.
    .
    Freeinpa don’t have nuthin’

  • 53_3

    I prefer the more parsimonious explanation, of which there are two:
    .
    1. Reality is liberal
    2. You don’t know sh!t
    .
    Mind you, these two are not mutually ‘sclusive, neether!
    .
    Oh, and Freeinpa:
    .
    Let’s say you and me reserve a thread to fight it out over global warming? Eh?
    .
    It will be one very, very short fight. We’ll see just who’s wearing the knards…

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Freeper: where did the 16,500 number come from? What was the reasoning behind it? Is there a flaw in that reasoning? We don’t deny that more IRS agents are needed, we dispute how many Republicans claim are needed because their numbers don’t make sense.
    .
    As was explained last week, the 16,500 number came when the Republicans took the $10 billion from the CBO estimate (the CBO actually stated that it would be 5-10 billion, but that’s splitting hairs), and suggested that every single penny would be spent on new agents – no over money set aside for overhead costs, no money spent on other types of employees, just new agents across the board. As I said last week, using the Republican numbers and taking reasonable swings at those ratios (50% overhead, 15% of employees being agents – which is the current ratio of agents in the IRS), the numbers would more realistically look like 1200 new agents. You called it fancy math rather than considering the reasoning behind it. What part of my calculations was unreasonable? If the numbers are unreasonable, what would be a more realistic number, in your mind, and what numbers would you use to get there? Do you still believe that the 16,500 number is reasonable?
    .
    This is not about trying to distract. This is about “pony up and admit that your team distorts facts and figures sometimes as well”. We call our own people out when our people do stupid crap like this all the time. You guys don’t.
    .
    This is about what’s reasonable and what’s ridiculous. We admit when our side screws up. We admit when we are disappointed in what our side has done. We admit when we think our side could do more or did way too much. We believe what we believe because we believe in it, not because we want the world to look a certain way. There are several dozen Liberals here, do you really believe that every single one of us are liars? Do you really believe that we think it’s to our benefit to hide out on the Time forums and spout “lies” about our beliefs. Do you really believe that? Do you think that this, of all places, is where a bunch of Liberals go to change the world to suit their vision?

  • 53_3

    This seems to me to go right to the heart of my constant refrain:
    .
    If a conservative does not like the perception they are intolerant, violent, and haveful, then they need to tell their peers to STFU!
    .
    It is not our problem. It is yours…

  • freeinpa

    nflfoghorn

    And now a girl comes to your aid. We can now be assured the race card will fly.

    You can defend global warming all you want. The original data is gone, Mistakes have cropped up time and time again. Screaming down the opposition will not work.

    So your only defense will be name calling. Hell that is your defense for everything.,

  • apr2563

    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/tea_party_gov_candidates_racist_sexually_graphic_e.php?ref=fpa
    Adam: Here is an inspiring story about a tea party member running for Governor of New York. It is helpful in understanding their candidates.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Check out any “debate” on global warming before the email leaks and fudged data showed up”
    .
    And therein you prove your ignorance.
    .
    The data discussed in the emails was regarding maximum latewood tree ring density. There is an unexplained divergence in the tree ring data post-1960 that contradicts the other data that’s been collected around temperature advances. This divergence implies that there may be another cause for the change in tree ring data beyond global warming. So it was recommended that this data not be used in larger modeling until a fuller understanding about tree ring development is reached.
    .
    That’s your ‘fudged data’. That’s you’re proof that global warming is a hoax. Some poorly phrased internal emails that discuss a fairly typical statistical modeling approach. That’s your conspiracy. If you can prove otherwise, prove that there’s an effort to falsify the effects of global warming, please, show us all. We’ll give you the Nobel Prize if you can. Otherwise, you’re just another right-wing, know-nothing, rhetorical blowhard.
    .
    Better yet, here’s a quote from Gavin Schmidt of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies that says it better than I can.
    .
    “There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research … no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from shadowy socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords.”

  • nflfoghorn

    So you may not be racist, but being sexist is OK?!? You’ve graduated to the pure coke I take it.

  • freeinpa

    f a conservative does not like the perception they are intolerant, violent, and haveful, then they need to tell their peers to STFU!

    No they need to telling the lying pieces of crap to STFU. You will not get away with it anymore no matter how much you repeat it, lie about it and just whine.

    The group that continues to show intolerance, racism, muzzling freedom of speech is the left.

  • freeinpa
  • grape_crush

    Freeper, can you tell us why you right-wing teabaggers are fascinated by hardcore beast!al!ty?

  • freeinpa

    “Freeper, can you tell us why you right-wing teabaggers are fascinated by hardcore beast!al!ty”

    You will have to ask the douchebaggers on the left. Since it is them who not only are fascinated but engae and defend it.

  • freeinpa

    “So you may not be racist, but being sexist is OK?!?”

    Priceless, the left has no shame about being racist (if its a black conservative) sexist (if its a republican women -check some of YOUR comments on Palin) or anti-gay ( if it makes fun of a conservative).

    I may have to be on coke for that but the left– you come by it naturally.. Your outrage is hypocritical and selective.

  • 53_3

    Well, freeinpa, you are right!
    .
    What they say is covered by the First Amendment!
    .
    But, you say we lie when in fact, Ivy_B posted a news story about his emails. It’s been pretty typical of your peers. So now what? Do I not believe that those several hundred videos, news stories, and articles that I’ve posted over the month are lies?
    .
    Okaaaaay.
    .
    Then, riddle me this!:
    .
    Just why is it that Black Americans are the least likely, by all polls, without exception, to support you and your peers?
    .
    Would it help if I just insult myself, and you just run like hell?

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Anyone else notice that Freeper ran to the bottom of the page and once again ignored an argument he lost rather than admit he was wrong?

  • 53_3

    No, freeinpa:
    .
    Actually not. You were the first to whip it out.
    .
    Go look. Apparently, you are not satisfying with lying about news that we have to then go and get links for, you lie about the content of the very thread you are commenting in!
    .
    Oh, well, freeinpa. Like I said, the offer is open:
    .
    How about I just insult myself and you just run like hell? It would save some time, at least…

  • 53_3

    I think he was referring to the policies that lead to the economic collapse in august of 2009.
    .
    Of course, freeinpa is an outright liar. With that truth staring him in the face, what else could be said about him (freeinpa, not Bush, another kettle of fish, entirely!)?

  • 53_3

    And pose for photos, thus proving that there is no problems with race in the GOP!

  • 53_3

    Freeinpa:
    .
    Now focus on the words “without exception”. Really, before you splatter and splutter your way through this, keep your eye on the ball and your hands steady…

  • 53_3

    One of these days, freeinpa’s head will explode.

  • freeinpa

    I didn’t run to the bottom of the page, I was responding to the loons that have sprung to defend the indefensible.

    You are like cockroaches, shine a light and you scatter in all directions.

    ==
    “There is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros nefariously funding climate research … no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from shadowy socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords.”

    Melting glaciers was falsified data. So “your one expert” is wrong about that which places everything else in question. How many other scientists were silenced and threatened by the pro global warming crowd? Answer more than the number of Tea Party people that have threatened anyone.If the data was not being manipulated why was there so much discussion on how or if t present it?

    ==
    “.
    This is not about trying to distract. This is about “pony up and admit that your team distorts facts and figures sometimes as well”. We call our own people out when our people do stupid crap like this all the time. You guys don’t.”

    It’s always they do it and you need to admit aqnd yet the left lies daily without shame. Then you defend the lies with more crap and lies. If its not a web site you don’t agree with, its Palin or Limbaugh or Beck. And yet the man sitting in the WH has lied since he started his campaign and if we say ahem excuse me, the name calling starts.

    Spare your indignation until you are ready to step up and face the reality that most liberal programs only come to being due to lies.

    ==

    “Freeinpa don’t have nuthin’”

    And this is what the mentally exhausted morally bankrupt liberals end up. They throw up their hands in victory declaring themselves the winner and saying the issue is decided. What a blend of arrogance and stupidity all wrapped in one.

  • freeinpa

    “ust why is it that Black Americans are the least likely, by all polls, without exception, to support you and your peers?”

    Here are 2 reasons:

    http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/04/07/callers-flood-ehealthinsurance-asking-wheres-my-free-obama-care/

  • freeinpa

    From dealing you? Not likely. I will always be around to call out a race baiting, knucklehead like you. You are going to have to find another source to vent your crap.

  • freeinpa

    “I think he was referring to the policies that lead to the economic collapse in august of 2009.
    .
    Of course, freeinpa is an outright liar. With that truth staring him in the face, what else could be said about him
    ==
    So IQ53 you are saying that the WH and the Demos never said that passing the stimulus was absolutely necessary to keep unemployment at no higher than 8%?

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=8148083

    ==

    Once again we have liberal facts, then throwing up hands and declaring victory followed by the name calling. And yet still wrong. I wonder when I will see the self-righteous trut seeking liberals friends here call you on crap that is more than evident. My guess is never because that would open the door that most of the other crap is a lie too.

  • freeinpa

    “How about I just insult myself and you just run like hell? It would save some time, at least.”

    Like most liberals all you run from is truth and reality.

  • grape_crush

    One of these days, freeinpa’s head will explode.
    .
    I vote for implode, as the pressure of the earth’s atmosphere will eventually overcome the bony structures protecting the intense vaccum between his ears. A thunderous ‘boom’ will be heard for miles, and people won’t see a cloud in the sky…

  • broknbuddha

    I saw that, funny stuff

  • gingerpye

    freep, why don’t you find another place to vent YOUR crap. It’s getting really old.

  • freeinpa

    Because it is more fun to see the contortions that the liberals will go through to make folks believe thier delusions are reality.

    http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/97481/

    See how many in the MSM or the left here jump on this. I won’ hold my breath since it won’t conform to the morally bankrupt reasoning of the left.

  • broknbuddha

    Sure, unemployment is up over 8%. We just got thrashed by the Great Recession. Did you think there would be no consequences for driving this country into the ditch?
    The stimulus bill, first and foremost, was intended to keep our country from crashing. It wasn’t pretty – and no one (intelligent) honestly thought it would be – but it worked. Our country did not go under. The collapse was not complete, and we are in a position to move forward again. I’m sure keeping unemployment under 8% was something they hoped for -and it seemed like an unlikely estimate even then – but that was not the fundamental goal of the program. Keeping our country afloat was.
    The last Great Depression lasted more than a decade and saw unemployment levels and duration like no other time in American history.
    It ain’t great, but we’re d@#n lucky unemployment’s where its at.

  • m0mentom0ri

    “Melting glaciers was falsified data.”

    In the big scheme of things, the melting glaciers debacle was the equivalent of a grammatical error. The vast majority of the data still supports global warming. Even the corrected glacial data supports global warming. The scientific community has been very transparent about these disclosures and has addressed the issue aggressively to prevent further errors like this.

    http://www.yaleclimatemediaforum.org/2010/02/anatomy-of-ipccs-himalayan-glacier-year-2035-mess/

    “How many other scientists were silenced and threatened by the pro global warming crowd?”
    .
    Irrational paranoid delusions of martyrdom to the point of slander. If someone’s been threatened, prove it.

  • broknbuddha

    Freep, you do the Tea Party proud. Your grasp of logic amazes me – nearly daily – and you remind me constantly of the value of a good education.
    Your valiant struggle against the paper tigers in your mind is pure Quixote. I salute you

  • freeinpa

    “Sure, unemployment is up over 8%. We just got thrashed by the Great Recession. Did you think there would be no consequences for driving this country into the ditch?
    ++

    See more tap dancing. Obama came in campaigning it was the worst economy since the Depression. The Council of Economic Advisers said without the stimulus unemployment would hit double digits with it, it would peak at 8%.

    Then they railed against the deficits caused by bailouts. Now they take credit for the bailouts saving the financial system.

    Now we are expected t elieve that these same people can re-arrange 16% of our economy without destroying the health care system and/or the economy.

    ==
    “The last Great Depression lasted more than a decade and saw unemployment levels and duration like no other time in American history.”

    http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/04/01/geithner-unemployment-to-stay-unacceptably-high-for-a-while/

    Well WH sources are saying it ain’t going away. So it did nothing for unemployment except give favors to Obama friends bulged our deficits and skyrocketed our national debt.

  • freeinpa

    “and you remind me constantly of the value of a good education.”

    Then I strongly suggest you get one. Or lacking that increase your meds so that you can better deal with reality.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    “I didn’t run to the bottom of the page, I was responding to the loons that have sprung to defend the indefensible.”
    .
    You made 3 posts in half an hour down below but you couldn’t find the 15 minutes between my post calling you out and your response post? Please.
    .
    On the other hand, you are rather predictable. “Goad him and he will come” seems to be the name of the game.
    .
    “You are like cockroaches, shine a light and you scatter in all directions.”
    .
    You’re the one that completely dodged the 3 paragraphs I spent on the 16,500 number. Not to mention that you keep trying to shine the light up here and get not one but 3 people coming back at you.
    .
    “It’s always they do it and you need to admit aqnd yet the left lies daily without shame. Then you defend the lies with more crap and lies. If its not a web site you don’t agree with, its Palin or Limbaugh or Beck. And yet the man sitting in the WH has lied since he started his campaign and if we say ahem excuse me, the name calling starts.”
    .
    Based upon our discussions last week, your definition of a lie seems to encompass many things including opinions that oppose your viewpoint, facts that don’t conform to your viewpoint, facts that follow rational reasoning, and anything that might remotely suggest there is something plausibly good in a Liberal/Socialist/Communist system.
    .
    But if you want, we can play a little game – I’m sure our fellow commenters would love to join in. We’ll match you lie for lie – you give a lie that Liberals have made and we’ll give you a lie Conservatives have made. Each time, the accusing side has to explain why it is a lie and the defending side either has to accept the accusation or explain why it isn’t a lie. We can start with the first lie being the climate scientists and the 16,500 number. The Liberals have already admitted it’s a lie (and, as a bonus, tossed in why it doesn’t discount climate change in general) and we have provided the evidence on why the 16,500 number is an unreasonable guess (I have one final note to append to it, though – it is below). We await your admission or your counter argument.
    .
    My final note: I agree that we do not know for certain what the final number of new IRS agents will be, but these are projections. We don’t object to the Republicans using the CBO’s projections of $10 billion extra being spent on the IRS. We don’t object to the Republicans projecting that as an annual operating cost of $1.5 billion. We object to the idea that to go from $1.5 billion a year to 16,500 agents, you have to presume that every single penny of that $1.5 billion was spent on the salaries of new agents, completely ignoring overhead costs and the concept of hiring people other than agents. So is the Republican number a lie and if it isn’t, why not?

  • nflfoghorn

    Seriously, Freep, the reason why people are sick of you is not just becasue you don’t listen to reason (although you don’t) but because you have this “nyah- nyah-nyah, talk-to-the-hand,” immaturish, depraved mindset that’s not only not funny, but also a pretty pathetic way to live your life, such as you have. It’s not fun to participate in a war of intellect when one soldier’s got blanks for artillery. Now if my “liberal truth” doesn’t seep into that mile-deep chasm called your skull, I will divorce myself from your intellectual inferiority and declare you a racist.

  • freeinpa

    “In the big scheme of things, the melting glaciers debacle was the equivalent of a grammatical error”

    Minor error here Original data discarded (convenient) and we were are talking a failed theory. Hard to hold up any theory when you do not have the original data. Climate models can’t be accurate year to year let alone decades.

    ==
    The we go to the ever popular 5th grade liberal argument when faced with reality “. If someone’s been threatened, prove it.”

    There are dozens of these.
    http://changingworldviews.blogspot.com/2008/01/scientists-threatened-with-death-over.html

    ==
    “You made 3 posts in half an hour down below but you couldn’t find the 15 minutes between my post calling you out and your response post? Please.”

    I will try to be more considerate of your bloviations.

    “We’ll match you lie for lie ”

    I have no doubt you will surpass me in lies.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Let the record show that Freeinpa would rather claim that Liberals make more lies than spend time actually proving his claims. Let the record show that Freeinpa has received his third chance to respond to criticisms on the 16,500 number (twice here and once on the original thread) where he was given explicitly clear evidence on why the Republican numbers were false and has chosen to completely ignore them and neither counter nor admit the invalidity of the numbers.
    .
    Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in congratulating the winner of the “Coward of Swampland” award.

  • freeinpa

    “we have provided the evidence on why the 16,500 number is an unreasonable guess”

    So an unreasonable guess is a lie.

    Well since you established that benchmark, then you agree that HC reform is a lie. We are already seeing evidence of costs curves are not bending (the truth curve is), Since premium are not going down 3000% as Obama stated. I don’t hear the defense as its just like HC in Massachusetts which is now in shambles. Or you can keep your doctor except he just stopped taking Medicare so you don;t have the coverage you thought. Or there is no mandate requiring you to buy insurance. Or those of you making less than 250,000 won;t have your taxes raised one penny.

    The argument about 16,500 seems silly by comparison, don’t you agree. The entire HC as presented by liberals is a lie.

  • apr2563

    Commentator named freeper,
    Stop being such a whiney weeper.
    Try thinking intellectually deeper
    And, we will admire you freeper.

    /
    Imagine what unemployment would be without the stimulist package. Without Republican obstruction and Democratic woosiness, we might have had a larger more productive package.

  • freeinpa

    First I don;t have the liberal failing of needing to be liked. Second, no I don;t listen to liberal reason because it is an oxymoron.

    You also suffer from the same arrogance as most in that no one but you has any “intellectual artillery”

    And you as liberals always do complete the liberal handbook. Scream racist. It’s compulsive and you can’t help it. And that is a pathetic way to live a life.

  • megatronrises

    If one piece of data is theoretically false, it does not mean that the entire picture is a lie. That is what I meant, and I think it’s pretty clear you willfully took one word completely out of context. You say this yourself about the IRS agents – just because 16500 is incorrect, you say, this doesn’t mean that the idea of hiring more IRS agents is a lie… necessarily.
    .
    However, 16500 is a gross conflagration, one that has been discussed in depth in this forum before. On the other hand, when one set of scientists happens to be irresponsible, it doesn’t mean that the data going 50 years back recorded by hundreds of scientists across the globe is a lie.
    .
    My point was to throw you a bone. I say, “yes, that one group of scientists/one set of data is wrong.” You could have said, “OK, now that you’ve conceded ground, I will too: the figure of 16500 IRS agents is an out and out misrepresentation of actual events.”
    .
    But you didn’t. Instead, you applied one set of logic to yourself (allowing a misrepresentation or inaccuracy to not mar your argument) but not applying the same set of logic to yourself (one set of data does not mean global warming is not happening).
    .
    So, enjoy your moral superiority and utter lack of logic. I can see why everyone on this blog treats your rubbish with such disdain.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    “Well since you established that benchmark, then you agree that HC reform is a lie.”

    Dare I ask….why?
    .
    “We are already seeing evidence of costs curves are not bending (the truth curve is), Since premium are not going down 3000% as Obama stated.”
    .
    Dare I ask where the 3000% comes from? BTW: would a 3000% drop mean that Insurance companies are now paying us 30X what we were once paying them in premiums every month?
    .
    On a side note, since there is little to nothing in the bill that is directly meant to restrict premiums other than attempts to restrict how quickly they can grow and percentages of premiums required to be used on health care (all other attempts at restricting costs come indirectly) and none of that actually goes into effect until several years from now, I fail to see how you expect a sudden, shocking reversal. In fact, with the vast majority of Obama’s HCR legislation not going into effect until 2014, we’ll be onto another President, perhaps 2, before the jury will have finally decided on the effect HCR has had.
    .
    “I don’t hear the defense as its just like HC in Massachusetts which is now in shambles.”
    .
    Evidence? Seems like the people from Mass would question that claim – especially since they give Romney considerable credit for his work there on Health Care. Regardless, I point out that this is technically not a lie – in fact, by your own statement here, you seem to be agreeing that it really is based upon Massachusetts Health Care.
    .
    “Or you can keep your doctor except he just stopped taking Medicare so you don;t have the coverage you thought.”
    .
    Why would your Doctor stop taking Medicare? Payments from Medicare haven’t decreased, last I checked.
    .
    “Or there is no mandate requiring you to buy insurance.”
    .
    Er….what? Last I checked, the individual mandate has existed since the first draft of the current HCR legislation. Or are you referring to Obama’s campaign promise that there wouldn’t be one. Ok, I’ll accept that this is a lie and raise you Death Panels (more below).
    .
    “Or those of you making less than 250,000 won;t have your taxes raised one penny.”
    .
    Their income taxes didn’t go up. Indirect taxes is another story but income taxed didn’t go up. That said, I agree that it was a stupid promise for Obama to make – people making under $250,000 should be taxed more – as should the rich. But that was last week’s discussion so I won’t spend too much time talking about that.
    .
    “The argument about 16,500 seems silly by comparison, don’t you agree.”
    .
    Not really. I mean, 16,500 was an outright fabrication based scare tactic. Obama talked about controlling the costs of Health Care and his legislation makes an honest attempt at that. He didn’t want to change the things that were working, just fix the things that weren’t – hence the line that you can keep your doctor. Well, his legislation does that. Yes, he lied about the individual mandate and even if he increases the taxes for the guys who make under $250,000, I point out that he actually did lower taxes for them in his first budget. But here’s the difference: in all of these cases, he made an honest attempt to build a good system – sometimes with unfortunate requirements (raising taxes, individual mandate), but honest attempts nonetheless. 16,500 is not an honest attempt at finding a real number. 16,500 was a ruthless attempt to undermine the Democrats using intentional disinformation.
    .
    So you technically haven’t responded to the 16,500, you’ve made 4 claims about lies and I’ve rebutted 2 (cost control, “keep your doctor”), admitted to 1 (individual mandate), and I’m debating about whether Obama technically violated the 4th (taxes). You know what, I’ll spot you it and raise you:
    .
    “The entire HC as presented by liberals is a lie.”
    .
    False
    .
    ——————————————–
    .
    Why Death Panels is a lie. The line that somehow got turned into Death Panels was explicitly stating a recommendation for discussions with patients about what would equate to a living will – what are your preferences should you be incapacitated, under what circumstances would you be resuscitated, who would be your medical proxy, etc. The Republicans also noted that there would be a rating system for doctors that determines subsidies of some sort for doctors based upon whether they meet these recommended procedures. The original complaint from what’s-her-face in New York was that Doctors would show a preference for euthanasia and because they are expected to do these consults on a regular basis, patients in general would feel more pressure to choose euthanasia. While I feel this is an unreasonable extrapolation, I’m even willing to let that one go as plausibly an honest opinion.
    .
    But then we go off the deep end with Sarah Palin’s reinterpretation of Death Panels:
    “The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care”
    .
    In no where does the legislation talk about death panels, about any bureaucratic body deciding the worthiness of somebody for a procedure, about the use of “level of productivity in society” as a measure to decide anything. In fact, I dare you, in any version of the health care bill, to show me a line that even remotely implies that. The disgrace of the death panels lie was repeated over and over and over again by Republicans everywhere. So I ask you, Freep, why are Death Panels not a lie.
    .
    For those keeping score at home, Freeper has to admit or deny with argument that 16,500 was a ridiculous value, has to prove that Health Care Reform was a total lie, and has to explain how any version of the Health Care Reform legislation could have reasonably resulted in death panels.

  • maverick2k9

    freeper, Who do you think is going to be President in 2012?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    reeper,
    .
    It’s great to know that if I am sick all day with a sinus headache that I am not the only one who calls you out.
    .
    I’ve got to love how you once claimed to be a chemical engineer, yet, you do not understand how a few, statistically insignificant examples (when put in the overall equation having no impact)does not prove that 20,000 scientists doing research for forty years are all wrong regarding climate change.
    .
    Clearly reeper, you are not involved with any of the sciences, business or anything academic.
    .
    I am so glad to know that nobody else respects your insanity.
    .
    With some luck, somebody may have convinced you to go join the neanderthals on a tea party site and knock yourself out (literally would be nice).
    .
    By the way, for you Republicans, neanderthals are hominids believed to have gone extinct tens of thousands of years ago until the discovery of the tea party in 2010.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    Wow!! I’ve got to say that coming home from work and reading this entire thread was quite something. I’m embarrassed for freeinpa, but more embarrassed for myself, being in the same state as this guy. He really gives the people of PA a bad name.

  • sacredh

    53_3: I don’t have to worry about seniority. I AM the senior man at work. Nobody else even comes close in seniority. I get to pick all of my vacations first. Every year. I have a year of sick leave built up too. It’s good to be me.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I guess it was because of Freeinpa’s extra long distractions this time that nobody commented on what I found a strange story: Confederate Remembrance month.
    .
    First, at the end of the day, the confederate insurrection was about State’s rights, but, it was about state’s rights to deny slaves any rights at all.
    .
    Second, just about everybody will tell you that America is an amazing country and a part of how it is so amazing is that it has separation of powers and multiple levels of government preventing any type of dictatorship while, simultaneously maintaining all of these cities, suburbs, small towns very diverse and different from one another into one collective identity as the United States. The Civil War, caused by the Confederate uprising, almost cost America from being one country and having that duality of being both a diverse group of places as well as having a collective identity.
    .
    Third, it had, proportionally, by far, the largest number of American deaths.
    .
    To me, a confederate remembrance month would be like Germany having a Nazi remembrance month.
    .
    Maybe a confederate remorse day, but not a remembrance.
    .
    Yes, I am from the Northeast and none of my ancestors were here during the time of the Civil War. So, I can not imagine anybody ever considering the confederacy less of an embarrassment than the Nazis were an embarrassment for modern Germans.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    An interesting bit of history: Prior to the Civil War, people said “THESE United States” as in, each state had autonomy but collectively made up the country. After the war, it people referred to “THE United States”. There was a change of mindset, a collective unity that put the country first and states second. It was if people recognized that the war was caused partly by the previous practice of putting state laws and governance above that of the federal branches.

    I heard that on the History Channel a few years ago on a show about the Civil War and its aftermath.

  • newfreedomblog

    erieangle:
    .
    Republicans and Conservatives alike agree, less government intervention is best, whereas it is a known fact that “neo-libs” want more government interventions and intrustions into everything about our lives, period. “Neo-libs” like you want government regulations, huge tax burdens on those who actually pay taxes to fund their totally out of control social justice programs, and to interfere in the capitalist free market economy.
    .
    I was fully and totally against all bailouts, buy-outs, and the so-called $787 BILLION dollar Obama boondoggle called a “stimulus”. I am not asking for Obama to intervene MORE. I want him to recind those programs he’s already put into place. To stop the corporate welfare he initiated to bail out big Labor through the automotive bailouts. Stop spending anymore “stimulus” dollars which is ONLY growing government even bigger with no, repeat NO positive outcomes.
    .
    You admit it. Admit Obama has FAILED completely at everything he has attempted thus far. All he has done is make a bad situation, worse.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Newfreedom,
    .
    That concession would only be fair if and only if you acknowledge that from 1980 through 1982 Ronald Reagan, also, failed.
    .
    Unemployment was this high, but, inflation existed, too.
    .
    Furthermore, Reagan, also, bailed out Chrysler.
    .
    So, if you write off Obama as a failure already, then Reagan, who ended is presidency with the stock market crash of 1987 was, also, into big government and both a failure at the start and a failure at the finish.
    .
    I will contest your point about the stimulus package.
    .
    Republicans, starting with Hoover, were the first ones to do this after the Democrats took congress in 1931 and called it countercycular spending.
    .
    We can not know in absolute terms how much higher unemployment would have been if we did not have the stimulus package.
    .
    Obama has not done anything that a Republican has never done.
    .
    If you ever want to hear the real left, there is a radio station in New York called WBAI. They have some real liberals who, also, opposed the bailouts because they believe executives and much of finance are a bunch of leaches.
    .
    I am more closer to the middle than they are. Relative to them, I am a conservative.

  • 3xfire3

    It’s interesting to watch all the Liberals on this site gang up on the comments of one Conservative. It’s a good illustration of how biased this site really is.
    Freeinpa makes many valid points but ever Liberal thinks it’s their duty to dispute everything he says. Since there are always two sides to every story and truth in usually somewhere in between it’s a perfect example of how closed minded people on the Left really are.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Newfreedom,
    .
    Also note that, the treaty Obama is working on is a renewal of what Reagan did. For the most part, it is a copy and paste of the old treaty changing the name from the Soviet Union to Russia and changing the names of the president from Reagan to Obama.
    .
    Do not forget that our “racial” HCR is Bob Dole’s HCR.
    .
    Also remember that when Eisenhower was the president, the highest tax bracket was 90% dropped by Kennedy to 70%.
    .
    It was 70% under Nixon and Ford.
    .
    In the 1950s,’60′s and ’70′s (remembering that Republicans worship the 1950s – deleting the fact that was the all time high for union membership and that was the primary reason why we had such a strong middle class in addition to the aftermath of WWII) anybody saying as Obama is that the top bracket should be 40% would have considered a radical right winger, not a liberal.
    .
    So, if you dislike big government and that is your ideology, you must, reasonably, also, hate how Reagan and W radically increased spending. You must, also, find Bob Dole too far to the left. You must, if you dislike the return of the income tax increase for the highest earners consider Ford, Nixon and Eisenhower big tax and spenders, too.
    .
    If that is what you believe, then, I will tell you, fairly, that after the first two years of Herbert Hoover, you would have some serious objections to all of the presidents.
    .
    Basically, you would fit comfortably in as a Calvin Coolidge Republican.
    .
    However, do not bend history to pretend that Obama is a radical or even anything but middle of the road.
    .
    The tax increases are and have been done when the lower 99.5% of Americans (all making under $250,000 per year) together voted for people who will provide what is needed by the 99.5% while taxing those who can afford it the most.
    .
    The goal is not to take away money, but, to add services. Therefore, since deficit spending, as done very gratuitously by Reagan and Dubbya, it has to come from somewhere.
    .
    If you can’t take the top one half of one percent, who is there left to tax, the poor we just gave relief to? Can we tax other countries? Where else is there left besides those who can afford it the most?
    .
    Any ideas or just opposition to taxing the wealthy a small fraction of how Eisenhower, Nixon and Ford did?
    .
    I do appreciate all innovative ideas and, as a matter of fact, before I saw the numbers, actually liked the idea of W giving the option for private SS instead of all federal. When I saw the numbers in the newspaper months before the 2001 dot-com stock market crash, I realized that it was not done because it was a dangerous idea, not that anybody liked having government management.
    .
    Give us innovative ideas and we will, at the very least, respect Republicans and, if they are really good ideas, even vote Republican.
    .
    Your only ideas seem to be “no! no! no!”
    .
    Please note, despite your past hostility, I am not making fun of you in the least.
    .
    Try hard to explain your inconsistencies or just say that you are a Calvin Coolidge kind of Republican far to the right of the Bush’s, Reagan, Ford, Nixon and Eisenhower.

  • 3xfire3

    53-3,
    Freeinpa shows a link about white SEAU members beating up a black man and you say NOTHING.
    .
    You who like to play the race card on almost every occasion choose to ignore a real race situation when it doesn’t meet you political agenda.
    .
    Very good illustration of the dishonesty of people on the Left.
    .
    You guys and gals show why mainstream Americans want nothing to do with you. Now that Americans know what Obama’s and the Democrat’s policies are, they will throw out the Democrats in November. If Ted Kennedy’s seat can be lost, there is no safe seat for any Democrat in the country.

  • 3xfire3

    You Liberal fools are all telling freeinpa to go someplace else.
    .
    If he and the other few Independents and Conservatives did not post here, you loons on the Left would have no one to challenge you warped views of our country and the world.
    .
    If that’s what you really want you must not have much confidence in your ideas and views of the world.
    .
    I guess you realize your ideas won’t hold up to any challenges. That’s too bad for you.

  • http://erieangel.wordpress.com erieangel

    newfreedom:

    Obama hasn’t failed. It took YEARS of mismanagement by both private industry and the federal government to get us to where we are. To expect to correct it all in 18 months is ludicrous.
    .
    And, no I’m not a liberal. I happen to be a fiscal conservative. I believe in a flat tax–no deductions. When a person gets a return of more than they paid in withholding, something is wrong with the system. And I must admit I was one of those people in ’09.

    .
    I guess you, and most people, would say that my “social justice” views are very liberal. I believe that it is government’s responsibility to care for those who are unable to do so themselves. The minimum wage needs to be changed into a “living wage” taking into account the cost of living in different parts of the country. And it needs to keep pace with inflation much better. Welfare needs to be reformed so that people are not rewarded to stay on the state rolls, but again, it needs to more accurately reflect the job opportunities available in any given area. And corporate welfare much stop. Rewarding poor decision making on the part of executives is just insane. When a small business owner experiences a setback in revenue, he takes a pay cut or declines to pay himself at all. But when a huge “too big fail” corporation sees a setback, executives continue to get paid huge wages and bonuses and puts it down on the balance sheet as a loss and then expects the government to hand over billions of tax dollars so that they can do it all over again.

  • freeinpa

    patrickturd

    No liberals do not call people out. They make fun denigrate and then they throw up their hand sand declare victory.

    Here is the best explanation of what liberals do:
    ==
    On racism:

    Why is it that the left is allowed to throw around the dangerous accusation of racism, without any evidence, as a means to malign half the country? Yet, if I want to use the word “socialist,” I have to go to the DNC and get a notary public to sign it for me.

    ==

    On the media assault on conservatives:

    This is an attack on the American people. This is who the left is in this country, this is why they want to fundamentally change it because they think we’re inherently terrible and we need to be socially engineered.

    Sum and substance of the left.

  • freeinpa

    “just about everybody will tell you that America is an amazing country”

    Everybody except liberals who whine, cry and deride the country and its history on a daily basis

  • grape_crush

    You Liberal fools are all telling freeinpa to go someplace else.
    .
    Nope. I’m having a great time mocking him. What a ma-roon!
    .
    …you loons on the Left would have no one to challenge you warped views of our country and the world.
    .
    Yes, there’s no other place in any form of media where partisan nutjobs like you and freeper can expose your idiotic takes on issues that affect real Americans.
    .
    For someone who says that they are a doctor, I would expect you to be a lot smarter…then again, that’s really a myth, particularly for surgeons.
    .
    … you must not have much confidence in your ideas and views of the world.
    .
    We want honest, intelligent, and thoughtful debate, which you and Freeper fail to provide.
    .
    Go some place where you can whine and commiserate with others like you, and leave the real discussion to the adults.
    .
    …your ideas won’t hold up to any challenges.
    .
    Ha! Project your own faults much? Real challenges are welcome and add to the debate. Sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to admit that you are wrong does not get you and freeper anything but our derision.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    “Freeinpa shows a link about white SEAU members beating up a black man and you say NOTHING.”
    .
    Watch that video again.
    .
    It shows a black man wearing a union shirt and another black man wearing something else separating and both sides saying that the other one was attacked.
    .
    It was black on black violence if you watch it.
    .
    Since the filming started after the fight, you can not tell who really did hit who first. It is an unclear mess where one black man is angry with another black man and, is just as likely to be that the conservative attacked first as it is the opposite since we saw NOTHING of the fight.
    .
    reeper,
    “Everybody except liberals who whine, cry and deride the country and its history on a daily basis.”
    .
    Do you have self respect? Do you love yourself? (Not sexually – I could really get in a zinger, but…). Yet, I bet (and if you don’t you should) say “hmmm, I really should do more reading. I am not perfect. hmmm, I really need to go the gym more often, I want to be more fit.”
    .
    Conservatives are saying that America can never be better. This is as good as it gets.
    .
    I don’t say about myself or anybody else I know that this is the best they can ever be and any change would ruin them. That is not hatred. That is optimism rather than the conservative gloom and doom that any change will cause catastrophe.
    .
    You love your daughter. Do you believe that when she is 13 she will be more knowlegable than when she is 12 and like that? Well, America is like a son or daughter of the American people. We want to see it grow and change rather than become stagnant, outdated and ill.
    .
    “socialism” has a very specific definition. Notice that “big government” is a relative term and, although we have far less government than other Western Democracies, it is relative term.
    .
    The far right is fascist. We don’t call you fascist. So since you do not meet the criteria to be defined by that term, so, don’t call progressives Marxist or that we are beginning a socialist government. Marxist believe not only in government medicine (which there is a huge argument that, like firefighting and the post office is a public good which was once private) but socialized pizza. A Marxist believes that all services down to who sells you your shoes should be government employees. This is factually incorrect.
    .
    “Why is it that the left is allowed to throw around the dangerous accusation of racism, without any evidence, as a means to malign half the country?”
    .
    Look at this post. One person says the word “racism” over and over. it is you. Nobody made that claim about you today or in anything I have seen.
    .
    I know, I know, you only set up a burning cross in your black neighbor’s yard to remind them of their Christian heritage and so that they can read the bible by it’s light.
    .
    (I’m kidding! As wacky as you are, I do not believe that you have ever been tied to the KKK in your life.)
    .
    ” This is an attack on the American people. This is who the left is in this country, this is why they want to fundamentally change it because they think we’re inherently terrible and we need to be socially engineered.

    Sum and substance of the left.”
    .
    This is some of the unhelpful, non-specific things you toss out. See my response to Newfreedomblog. Obama has not done anything in his presidency so far not either already done or proposed by a Republican at one time or another including that we have Bob Dole’s HCR and Ronald Reagan’s bailout of the car industry.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    “You Liberal fools…”
    .
    That sentence right there answers why we, generally speaking, do not want the conservatives who do post here posting here.
    .
    1) It is a frothing at the mouth way to address people. I don’t care what you did or did not do with you life, but, would you walk into a room full of people who disagree with you and say “You fools!”. Even if offline you have a totally different personality, you sound like a raving lunatic online.
    .
    2) You, while saying that we are closed minded right away are sure that you are right and everybody liberal is wrong. That is not a discussion. That is a rambling verbal attack.
    You know as well as I do that if I walked into some Toledo bars and came in shouting “you fools!” I wouldn’t easily make it out alive.
    .
    So, it would be like my knocking on your door and saying “So, 3X, why do you beat your wife…. No, no LIES! YOUR LYING! I KNOW you beat your wife. So tell me WHY you beat your wife…. NO!NO! NO!… You do beat your wife! Why do you do it.”
    .
    Obviously as a sane person, I would never go to Toledo.
    .
    Also, even if you lived in a good place, I wouldn’t knock on your door like a mental patient the way you get online like you just got released from the mental ward.
    .
    BTW: I do assume that, married, divorced or widowed, you never did harm to your wife.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Live footage of the conservative Trolls and what they look like offline:
    .

    .
    Okay, sorry, these creatures can’t pronounce “unconstitutional”, “government takeover”. “socialist” and “this country is ruined!”.
    .
    I apologize to these relatively benign creatures by comparing them to Freeinpa.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    3xfire3: What have I said that’s false? Even at the level of opinion, have I said anything here that is unreasonable? I would like to think that I’ve given a lot more credit to a lot of positions than most would be willing to provide – would you dispute this?
    .
    We don’t gang up on Freeper because we can’t stand conservative viewpoints – honest conservative viewpoints most of us are more than willing to hear and willing to discuss at length. But there are a few key ingredients to an honest conservative viewpoint: admitting when your side is wrong, admitting when you are wrong, acknowledging points where there is a fundamental disagreement rather than saying that there is something fundamentally wrong with the other side. If you are incapable of doing this, you are an ideologue, clouded in your ability to reason and think. If you are capable of doing this but won’t do it, you are dishonest. I welcome debate from honest individuals and Freeper has demonstrated here an ability to recognize when he is wrong, but he has shown no ability to admit he’s wrong, or that his side is wrong. He is a dishonest individual who goes around this site calling us liars, inciting debate while refusing to participate honestly. He isn’t here for the betterment of political argument and political understanding, he is here to frustrate and annoy.
    .
    So we challenged him to be honest. We have nudged, shoved and outright called him out and he has time and again demonstrated that he is not honest, that he is not willing to engage in honest debate.
    .
    Nor, for that matter. You are more than welcome to answer Freep’s questions for him:
    1) Was the 16,500 IRS agents an unreasonable extrapolation based upon the evidence and if not, why?
    2) Why is Health Care Reform all a lie?
    3) How, in any draft of the bill, did any combination of specific lines within the bill actually result in government bureaucratic panels that would decide whether to withhold treatment from any individual?
    .
    Please, in your answers, consider the explicit evidence stated in the previous posts in this thread.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Ack: should read “nor, for that matter, are you”

  • apr2563

    Freeper: Just for you. With additional updated list.
    Patriotism is in the eye of the beholder and FACTS.

    Who Actually Served

    Updated list:http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

    Democrats

    Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
    David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72
    Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72
    Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
    journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade
    Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam
    Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII
    John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat
    V Purple Hearts
    John Edwards: did not serve
    Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea
    Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &Bronze Star,
    Vietnam
    Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53
    Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74
    Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-79; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
    Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the Bronze Star and
    seven campaign ribbons
    Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze
    Stars, and Soldier’s Medal
    Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and
    Legion of Merit
    Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart
    Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze
    Star with Combat V
    Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star
    Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
    Chuck Robb: Vietnam
    Howell Heflin: Silver Star
    George McGovern: Silver Star &DFC during WWII
    Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
    received 311
    Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy
    Walter Mondale: Army 1951-53
    John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters
    Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
    Wallenberg
    Wesley Clark: U.S. Army, 1966-2000, West Point, Vietnam, Purple
    Heart, Silver Star. Retired 4-star general
    John Dingell: WWII vet
    John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea

    NOW FOR THE EYE (and hopefully MIND) OPENER!

    Republicans
    Dennis Hastert: did not serve
    Tom Delay: did not serve
    House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve
    Bill Frist: did not serve
    Rudy Giuliani: did not serve
    George Pataki: did not serve
    Mitch McConnell: did not serve
    Rick Santorum: did not serve
    Trent Lott: did not serve
    Dick Cheney: did not serve.
    John Ashcroft: did not serve.
    Jeb Bush: did not serve
    Karl Rove: did not serve
    Saxby Chambliss: did not serve because of “bad knee.”He’s the man
    who attacked Max Cleland’s patriotism
    Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve
    Vin Weber: did not serve
    Richard Perle: did not serve
    Douglas Feith: did not serve
    Eliot Abrams: did not serve
    Richard Shelby: did not serve
    Jon Kyl: did not serve
    Tim Hutchison: did not serve
    Christopher Cox: did not serve
    Newt Gingrich: did not serve
    Don Rumsfeld: served in peacetime Navy (1954-57)
    George W. Bush: six-year Nat’l Guard commitment (incomplete)
    Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role
    making movies
    Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII
    Phil Gramm: did not serve
    John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart
    and Distinguished Flying Cross
    Bob Dole: an honorable veteran
    Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam
    Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-86
    JC Watts: did not serve
    Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer
    G.H.W. Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese
    Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam
    Antonin Scalia: did not serve
    Clarence Thomas: did not serve

    Pundits and Preachers

    Dennis Prager: did not serve
    Sean Hannity: did not serve
    Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a ‘pilonidal cyst.’)
    Bill O’Reilly: did not serve
    Michael Savage: did not serve
    George Will: did not serve
    Glen Beck: did not serve
    Paul Gigot: did not serve
    Bill Bennett: did not serve
    Pat Buchanan: did not serve
    Bill Kristol: did not serve
    Kenneth Starr: did not serve
    Michael Medved: did not serve
    Jonah Goldberg: did not serve
    Tucker Carlson: did not serve

  • apr2563
  • 3xfire3

    FOES of TEA PARTY MOVEMENT to INFILTRATE RALLIES
    .
    Apr 12 06:30 PM US/Eastern
    By VALERIE BAUMAN
    Associated Press Writer

    ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) – Opponents of the fiscally conservative tea party movement say they plan to infiltrate and dismantle the political group by trying to make its members appear to be racist, homophobic and moronic.
    Jason Levin, creator of http://www.crashtheteaparty.org, said Monday the group has 65 leaders in major cities across the country who are trying to recruit members to infiltrate tea party events for April 15—tax filing day, when tea party groups across the country are planning to gather and protest high taxes.
    .
    “Every time we have someone on camera saying that Barack Obama isn’t an American citizen, we want someone sitting next to him saying, ‘That’s right, he’s an alien from outer space!’” Levin said.
    .
    Tea party members said the backlash comes from ignorance.
    .
    “They can’t actually debate our message and that’s their problem,” said Bob MacGuffie, a Connecticut organizer for Right Principles, a tea party group that also has members in New York and New Jersey.
    .
    The tea party movement generally unites on the fiscally conservative principles of small government, lower taxes and less spending. Beyond that the ideology of the people involved tends to vary dramatically.
    .
    Levin says they want to exaggerate the group’s least appealing qualities, further distance the tea party from mainstream America and damage the public’s opinion of them.
    .
    The site manifesto says they want to dismantle the Tea Party by nonviolent means. “We have already sat quietly in their meetings, and observed their rallies,” the site said.
    .
    Another tea party organizer said the attempt to destroy the movement was evidence its message is resonating.
    “We’ve been ignored, we’ve been ridiculed. Well, now they’re coming after us,” said Judy Pepenella, a co-coordinator for the New York State Tea Party. “Gandhi’s quote is one we understand: ‘First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.’”
    .
    Of course, their mission begs the question: If the tea party is a manifestation of such desperately fringe irreprehensible behavior, why would there be any need for an organized sabotage of their message?
    .
    The simple existence of the Crasher’s should illustrate the effectiveness and marketability of the tea parties principles. Moreover, the existence of such indecent tactics reflects far more poorly on the perpetrators of the sabotage rather than its intended victims.
    .

    And while apprehension for such an organized assault on the tea party movement is quite appropriate, the attack on conservative principles should be seen as a compliment, and a barometer for our success. Few movements would garner so much hate, or objection, if they remained a fringe movement. It is only because of the widespread palatability of conservative values that the tea party movement has merited such a fervent opposition.
    .
    I find it interesting that this hateful group of Leftist is willing to go to any extreme to discredit the Tea Party movement. It show how corrupt and dishonest some people on the Left are. A favorite tactic is to claim that any right wing fringe person is a part of the Tea Party when they have absolutely no credible proof of the truthfulness of that accusation.
    .
    Since they can not come up with any actual proof of violence or anything else radical about the Tea Party, they are going to manufacture it.
    .
    Kind of reminds me of my studies about Communism in College. “The End Justifies The Means”.
    .
    Anything is justified because the end is so beautiful that it’s OK the lie, cheat or anything else if it will help reach the ultimate goal. Stalin and Mao believe this and each was responsible for 10s of millions of deaths but that was OK because the end was so good and beautiful.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    1) With at least seventy million Americans who are progressive/liberal/left., I found that you are being terribly unfair by saying that those sixty five people should represent all of us. This is a fringe group of progressives I do not approve of and do condemn who are, supposedly, doing this.
    .
    2) If the Tea Party is so massively large, how could 65 people sabotage everything? Clearly this group is far too small to do what they say they want to do.
    .
    3) I looked up Judy Pepenella,and found on her facebook page, she admired Oliver North, who was a classic example of “the ends justify the means”.
    .
    4)”said Bob MacGuffie, a Connecticut organizer for Right Principles, a tea party group”
    .
    So, I did a Google search for peace loving, kind, Bob and found this.

    “Last night Alan Colmes brought Bob MacGuffie, the man responsible for the “Rocking The Town Hall” memo that urges right-wing activists to overwhelm and disrupt Congressional town hall meetings by shouting down the speakers and generally causing a commotion.

    Needless to say, MacGuffie didn’t see it that way, insisting that outbursts are “not terribly disruptive” and that those that have occurred have been the result of genuine and spontaneous anger at the Democrats’ effort to transform America into a socialist nightmare.

    In essence, MacGuffie said, these sorts of tactics are necessary because Democrats “have gotten away with their phony town halls for too long” where they have been allowed to spew their “lies, deceit, and misrepresentation.”

    MacGuffie insisted that his goal is merely to get people to ask Representatives questions and hold them accountable, but when Colmes pointed out that urging people shout out and disrupt the event does not generally lead to a fruitful exchange of views, MacGuffie’s response was that “well, hey, passions run deep.”"
    .
    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/bob-macguffie-defends-his-mob-memo
    .
    So, with people like Judy Pepenella and Bob MacGuffie, the only two people quoted representing the Tea Party, how could even sixty five thousand saboteurs do worse for the Tea Party than this, 3X.
    .
    You see, 3X, what you have here is something a news organization may want to use for propagating the Tea Party as victims. If you didn’t see the pathetically low and non-threatening number of 65 people, you would be up in arms. If you find out more facts, then you would wonder if even the facts are real of invented by the Tea Party itself.
    .
    BTW: thank you for not inserting your typical personal insults at all of us.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    Also, listen to Bob himself.
    .
    So, in 30 seconds, I found out who is making these statements. These two, especially Bob, are very against good, healthy dialog.
    .
    So, 3X, I am taking it for granted that you do wish to know the truth.
    .
    Listen and hear the truth for yourself.
    .
    This is your “victim” Bob.
    .
    The Nazis used to go into liberal beer halls in Munich and then, after the shouting, beat up liberals and Social Democrats.
    .
    Bob is using proto-Fascist tactics, 3X.
    .
    When will he advocate beating us?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “The SA carried out numerous acts of violence against socialist groups throughout the 1920s, typically in minor street-fights called Zusammenstöße (‘collisions’).”
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung
    .
    So, this is why I compare Bob to a member of the SA.
    .
    If you learn about history, the Nazis always said that they were the victims of the socialists and (unlike the Tea Party – I am not making this accusation against the Tea party) Jews.
    .
    The Tea Party is on the path towards a more inclusive and multi-cultural type of hatred and anti-democrat behavior.
    .
    Where did I get these ideas, 3X?
    .
    I got them from reading what was written about the people you quoted.
    .
    Had you not sent that link, I would have had a very slightly (very slightly) better impression of the Tea Party.

  • 3xfire3

    Patrick,
    .
    “If you didn’t see the pathetically low and non-threatening number of 65 people, you would be up in arms‘
    .
    “Jason Levin, creator of http://www.crashtheteaparty.org, said Monday the group has 65 leaders in major cities across the country who are trying to recruit members to infiltrate tea party events”.
    .
    Patrick how does your comment about this small group of 65 people make any sense?
    Levin said they are 65 Leaders who are recruiting people to disrupt Tea Party Rally’s in major cities across the country.
    .
    Please give accurate comments so people reading them have the benefit of the truth.
    .
    I wouldn’t think you would try to defend this group in any way.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “Patrick how does your comment about this small group of 65 people make any sense?
    Levin said they are 65 Leaders who are recruiting people to disrupt Tea Party Rally’s in major cities across the country.”
    .
    For argument’s sake, we will take the low number of 15% of people support the Tea Party and, in this instance, it is to your advantage and I am bending over backwards.
    .
    150 mil voters.
    .
    15% 150mil is 22.5 Million Tea Party members.
    .
    Let’s go to the extreme and say that each one of these people recruits 200 people.
    .
    That would be 1,300 people out of 22.5 Million.
    .
    That’s 13 out of 225,000 people.
    .
    If the recruiters succeed well beyond any reasonable expectation at 200 each and even if the Tea Party is 15%, these will be a few, loud, obnoxious people.
    .
    Now, why aren’t you up in Arms about that guy Bob?
    .
    He is trying ruin public discourse and make the Tea Party into a bunch of people like Textee who write random things in all caps just to disrupt discussions.
    .
    Personally, I have a hard time believing two things:
    .
    1) That this infiltration group will make any progress at all getting far beyond the 65 people they have (if this isn’t a hoax).
    .
    2) With the official Tea Party protocol being to yell, scream, spread out all over an area and disrupt public activities that anything these people are doing could possibly be worse at making the Tea Party look like Jackasses than they are doing themselves.
    .
    3X, would you go to public events the way this guy Bob is recommending and yell and scream or don’t you, as a dignified man, believe that is beneath you?
    .
    Bob is the complainer about this Levin guy. He is not one of Levin’s people.
    .
    I told you that I do not approve of what this odd group claims they want to do, but, it’s as much a part of free speech as the lies about death panels, about 16,500 armed IRS agents, tax increases and so on…
    .
    You can use your free speech to be an ahole.
    .
    Yes, if they did infiltrate the Tea Party I would say that they were aholes.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    “”Do I think every member of the Tea Party is a homophobe, racist or a moron? No, absolutely not,” he said. “Do I think most of them are homophobes, racists or morons? Absolutely.”"
    .
    “Speaking to the AP, founder Levin said this: “Every time we have someone on camera saying that Barack Obama isn’t an American citizen, we want someone sitting next to him saying, ‘That’s right, he’s an alien from outer space!’”
    .
    “There is no way to verify Levin’s claims about the size or activities of his group, or even exactly what his motivations are: After all, the group’s plans give Levin’s ostensible opponents ammunition to claim that the worst excesses in their movement are actually coming from infiltrators in disguise. (It’s also worth noting the site is selling t-shirts.)”
    .
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002377-503544.html
    .
    It sounds like he is in the business of selling T shirts and adding onto Tea Party paranoia.
    .
    Now this is offensive:
    .
    “Oklahoma Tea Partiers Consider Creating Militia
    Supporters Hope a Volunteer Force Could Defend State Sovereignty Against What They See as Improper Federal Intrusions
    .
    (AP) Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty.

    Tea party movement leaders say they’ve discussed the idea with several supportive lawmakers and hope to get legislation next year to recognize a new volunteer force. They say the unit would not resemble militia groups that have been raided for allegedly plotting attacks on law enforcement officers.

    “Is it scary? It sure is,” said tea party leader Al Gerhart of Oklahoma City, who heads an umbrella group of tea party factions called the Oklahoma Constitutional Alliance. “But when do the states stop rolling over for the federal government?” ”
    .
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/13/politics/main6391710.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
    .
    The more I read about the official Tea Party, the more offensive I find it.
    .
    You’ve done a great job of discrediting the Tea Party, 3X. if it weren’t for you, I would have never looked up these articles.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    3X,
    .
    Considering that law enforcement knows law enforcement better than CEOs and commercial real estate agents, I am sure that this prankster who may have persuaded some to attend meetings and, also, refers to himself as “the mad hatter”, Jason Levin will be interviewed any time that the Tea Party does something violent and, if you never hear from him again, then that means only one thing: he is a successful T shirt salesman and nothing more.
    .
    The links between the Tea Party and violence so far have been to people who watched the inflammatory language of the Tea Party and convinced them to make illegal threats of various kinds. So, the ACLU and other liberal groups are what protect the Tea Party from more intrusive investigation.
    .
    This man gets a kick out of ruffling your feathers.
    .
    I don’t.
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    I like showing you facts outside of the Fox and AM radio world which will teach you how mistaken you and the Tea Party movement are and hope that, as an intelligent person, you will voluntarily leave this dumb and potentially dangerous movement behind you and persuade people you are friendly with in the movement to, also, leave it behind for something more constructive.
    .
    You do charity work and, in years gone by, Republicans did create very interesting and useful alternatives to Democratic proposals such as Bob Dole’s health care reform, nearly identical to what we have right now.
    .
    If you are convinced that nine out of ten news sources are corrupt and telling us lies, then I have no idea what to say to you. other than a recommendation that you avoid caffeine.

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