Pigs

Joe,
I am impressed with our outrage. I only wish your peers showed such courage.

Unfortunately the outrage machine is generating this discord, so they are unlikely to denounce their representatives.

Those 60s protesters you’re so quick to criticize also helped end an unjust war of imperialism that had been foisted on the American people. These protesters are trying to stop people from getting health insurance. A little less with the moral equivalence, please.

This, after Congressman Randy Neugebauer called Bart Stupak a “baby killer” and, essentially, refused to take it back
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He didn’t just refuse to take it back.
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He’s now bragging about it, using it to raise money for himself.
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34879.html
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This is the modern Republican Party. Crass outbursts by the likes of Joe Wilson and Randy Neugebarger aren’t just tolerated by their colleagues, they’re used to make them into rising stars of the movement.

“Right-wing extremists are threatening Democrats who voted for health care reform with violence. This, after Congressman John Lewis was called a “nigger” and Barney Frank was called a “faggot.” This, after Congressman Randy Neugebauer called Bart Stupak a “baby killer” and, essentially, refused to take it back.”

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Joe, Joe, Joe. Does this also align to the fact that YOU called the American people “Dumb and Stupid”?
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Does this post justify itself by you pointing out that our distinguished Black Caucas Members marched across the Capitol grounds defiantly pushing right through the Tea Party crowd that assembled to protest?
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Where is Barney’s proof that he was called a “faggot”?
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Where is John Lewis’ proof that he was called a “nigger”?
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Please Joe, show us the proof that you have.
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Oh that’s right there are no police records. There is a video, but that video seems to be void of any words shouted out in vitriol against them. Isn’t that right Joe Klein?
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Tell the truth Joe. This is your endorsement of the Democrat Party Leadership’s goal of putting down this movement. This is a pure example of the 1960′s with the then leadership’s goal of putting down the Vietnam War protesters.
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This is all about Barack Obama’s march forward with his “Social Justice” campaign which you endorse as well. It is the perversion of our Constitution. It is a battle cry from the far left extremists in an attempt to shout down those of us who are now speaking up against you. That is the truth.

Joe, Joe, Joe. Does this also align to the fact that YOU called the American people “Dumb and Stupid”?
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Does this post justify itself by you pointing out that our distinguished Black Caucas Members marched across the Capitol grounds defiantly pushing right through the Tea Party crowd that assembled to protest?
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Where is Barney’s proof that he was called a “fa&&ot”?
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Where is John Lewis’ proof that he was called a “ni&&er”?
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Please Joe, show us the proof that you have.
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Oh that’s right there are no police records. There is a video, but that video seems to be void of any words shouted out in vitriol against them. Isn’t that right Joe Klein?
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Tell the truth Joe. This is your endorsement of the Democrat Party Leadership’s goal of putting down this movement. This is a pure example of the 1960′s with the then leadership’s goal of putting down the Vietnam War protesters.
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This is all about Barack Obama’s march forward with his “Social Justice” campaign which you endorse as well. It is the perversion of our Constitution. It is a battle cry from the far left extremists in an attempt to shout down those of us who are now speaking up against you. That is the truth.
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(This was written previously, but the “Moderators” were moderating on whether this comment was as offensive as Joe Klein’s.)

I’m dumbfounded by Joe linking war-protesting hippies to Dems being “in the American doghouse for 40 years.” So from 1968-2008 it’s been just a swell GOP ride, Watergate and Tip O’Neill notwithstanding? And what, presumably, brought them out of the doghouse?

Are you saying the offended congressmen have reason to lie? If I called you an a**hole would you take it as a term of endearment too?

“out” should be italicized, but I don’t have that capability on this blog

If these people are the “real” Americans or are “patriots,” then please count me out. Disgusting. And Rustyblog, disgusting that you would even try to defend this. I thought we were better than this garbage, but clearly not.

Yep rustyblog, it’s another part of Obama’s conspiracy to turn us into a socialist country. It started when Obama was born in Kenya as a Muslim and then secretly brought to Hawaii. This is just the next step, having African American and gay congressmen lie about people yelling slurs at them to further the plan. Glad you are on this.

Well, Joe Klein is much better than average, but the fact is that the import of an MSM editorialist like him is to help define and transmit conventional wisdom.
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If we get a new conventional wisdom that today’s GOP is every bit as uncool as the Democrats in 1980, we come out ahead from a truth standpoint. We’re not going to get any historical contrarianism from the left, so I’ll take this.
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It is, of course, true that today’s GOP is 100% in the thrall of the certifiably insane, in a way that the Democratic Party never was, and that the supposedly too-far-left goals of decreasing poverty and not invading quite as many foreign countries are objectively more practical and moral that the too-far-right goals of … whatever it is they think their principles are today vs. 2 years ago.

Agreed, Elv, but remember that JFK and LBJ kinda took the Vietnam ball set up by Eisenhower and ran with it, all in the name of stopping “communism.” All the while a disproportionate amount of blacks paid the price. Fast-forward 40 years and you wonder why Blush [sic] and Dick made the same mistake.

“Are you saying the offended congressmen have reason to lie? If I called you an a**hole would you take it as a term of endearment too?”

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Yes I am. I am calling John Lewis and the rest of the Black Caucas to come out with their proof. I was there. I saw them. I DIDN’T see or hear anyone using foul or language which they are making claim.
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Watch the videos. Watch them and listen to see if you can hear anyone using the term “ni&&er”. YouTube has dozens of videos from people who were there. Video which shows that no one said what John Lewis and Barney Frank claim happened.
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This is a Democrat campaign to discredit the Tea Party Movement, I am convinced of it.

So the U.S. Capitol Police, who detained the Tea Party activist who spat on Rep. Emanuel Cleaver — are they in on this massive conspiracy too?
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/20/AR2010032002556.html

“This is a Democrat campaign to discredit the Tea Party Movement, I am convinced of it.”
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Sorry, they discredit themselves. No need to help them.

Not to mention that some American troops actually did kill babies, sometimes (My Lai) deliberately.

I can’t get too finger waggy about right-wingers selling hate and threatening violence. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t really be traditional right-wingers, and they just looooove tradition.

Yes, newfreedomblog, the passage of this health care bill, including multiple recommendations made by Republican leaders back when they were actually a sane, intelligent opponent, is *clearly* a march forward with the “Social Justice” campaign.

And clearly you didn’t read the article stating the examples of extremists admitting to their deeply personal and hateful tactics.

“Pig” is too kind a word for you.

“This is a Democrat campaign to discredit the Tea Party Movement, I am convinced of it.”
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OMG!

Oh, and this video of Barney Frank being called a “faggot” — was that faked, you know, like the video of the moon landing?
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http://www.towleroad.com/2010/03/teabaggers-call-barney-frank-faggot-at-us-capitol.html

L & G please welcome the eyes and ears of social justice, Rust-eeeee!

Destor–I WAS one of those antiwar protesters. But I never resorted to violence or to berating the troops–although I did toss an epithet or twenty in the direction of Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon.

The point here is that violence and excess turned average Americans away from the antiwar movement, even though they agreed with it on substance–and even though we were right. And it enabled conservatives to run a culture war against Democrats for 40 years.

Again as usual, the liberal retards on this site will comment, even post links that they claim show proof. There is no video.
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When you click on kevin’s site he links, it is a picture with the written claim that Barney was called a fa&&ot. No video, just a picture of the supposed ABC News footage.
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Show us the footage, kevin. How about it nflfoghorn do you have a link to any video?
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How about YOU, Joe Klein. You have the great and powerful TIME.com at your beck and call. Do YOU have video of proof?
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Or is it all one big LIE? One big DISTORTION?.
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I’m waiting. I’m waiting……..

Well js112, I do defend it because I was there. I was present at the protest. This is a Democrat LIE that they are attempting to persuade public opinion. Nothing more.
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Joe Klein is part of the lame stream media, who will post this kind of attack on the Tea Party Movement on behalf of those in the Democrat Party who are LYING.
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Again, if you have proof of it. If you have an arrest record of it. If you have anything at all, please link it so we can all see and judge for ourselves.
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In the internet age, the days of videos and sound bites, if you had it, it would be so very easy to prove.

Thanks Joe, for your activism then, your journalism now and for caring about what your readers here think.

When you click on kevin’s site he links, it is a picture with the written claim that Barney was called a fa&&ot. No video, just a picture of the supposed ABC News footage.
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Those here with opposable thumbs will be able to scroll down to the end of the post I linked to, and see the embedded video player at the bottom.
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It is located beneath an introduction, which says in plain English, “Watch ABC News’ report on the racist, homophobic teabaggers.” If you click on that embedded video player, you can, in fact, watch ABC News’s report with footage of the crowd taunting Frank.
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Now, of course, ABC was forced to beep out the F-word. So maybe it never happened and they’re in on the conspiracy too!!!!!

To be fair, I have not seen a video of it, but I will also not be surprised when one surfaces. The rest of the offenses in JK’s linked article are bad enough though, so I will still say it’s disgusting behavior.

Everyone is in on it!-
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.”Homophobic Epitheths”
Dear Sir: In today’s Washington Sketch, you write, “Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who for the second day in a row had homophobic epithets hurled at him by demonstrators…”

What is your source for such a claim, Rep. Frank himself? Staffers? Did you hear these epithets yourself? If not, how do you know it happened? Would revealing this violate some secret society oath? Also, do you think Washington Post reporters should perhaps familiarize themselves with the etymology of “homophobia” and educate their readers that it is a gross illiteracy?

– March 22, 2010 9:41 AM Permalink A.Dana Milbank writes:
Yesterday’s epithet was shouted during a news conference with Democratic leaders in the Cannon House Office Building. If you don’t want reporters to hear your slur, that’s probably a bad place to shout it. As for the “homophobia,” that’s an editor euphemism. I tried to print the actual epithet, as well as the one directed at the black members, but both were removed.
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http://live.washingtonpost.com/dana-milbank-03222010.html#question-9

Joe – this is a big step in the right direction, but can we please stop being so cagey about the language, or arguing about this purely with regards to the political fortunes of one party or the other?

There’s a word for political movements that:

a) conceptualise their opponents not as fellow citizens engaging in a political debate but as enemies of the state to be suborned.

b) Openly encourage their supporters to engage in aggressive and violent behaviour (as the GOP clearly did with the Tea Partiers last week)

c) Engage in fantastic conspiracy theories designed to delegitimise their political opponents as traitors or agents of foreign influence.

d) Fundamentally refuse to attribute any positive attributes or good-will to the opposition and reject their right to govern after winning elections.

e) Engage in tactics designed to disrupt and disable the proper functioning of democratic institutions of state power (as the Republicans have been doing in the Senate.)

Can anyone here guess what that word is? I’ll give you a clue – it comes from an Italian phrase that translates as ‘Groups for Combat.’

Dang. How can we believe that *anything* ever happened before the invention of the phonograph and camera?
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History, apparently, truly is bunk to some people.

“Where is John Lewis’ proof that he was called a “ni&&er”?
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At the 11 second mark:

It’s pretty clear, Rus, that you won’t believe it whether you took the pols’ word for it or even, as already stated, if there’s empirical evidence. So I’m not gonna waste my fingers on it.

JK still seems to imply that protesters were less patriotic than those they protested against. Maybe he hasn’t seen “Born on the Fourth of July” lately.

@newfreedomblog

For your theory to be REMOTELY plausible, virtually every media organisation in the country would have to be CONSCIOUSLY in league with the Democratic Congressional Caucus in a far-ranging conspiracy that ONLY YOU seem to be aware of. In fact, since numerous Republican leaders either apologised or downplayed the above incidents (i.e. acknowledging that they happened) it must mean that the GOP is either entirely ignorant of this conspiracy (which would at minimum involve tens of thousands of people, including virtually every staffer of any political persuasion on the hill) or is also in on it.

Now you can choose to believe this if you want. But don’t be surprised if more rational people respond by saying ‘that’s nice’ and ask if you’d like a valium and a lie-down.

Keep trying folks. I’m still waiting for the proof. Show the video. Even kevins gay-site reference does not have the word “fa&&ot” yelled out, it is bleeped. Who is to say that she didn’t call him “sweetheart”? Maybe she said “Maggot”.
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Again, show the proof if you can. Keep trying. I am sure someone can come up with it sooner or later even if you have to doctor the video to “prove” it.

Nearly forgot – since the slurs were reported in the international media as well, the conspiracy must include virtually every news organisation in the Western world.

And its spelt ‘Caucus’ not ‘Caucas.’

Joe Klein:
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A much as it pains me not to immediately argue with you, I must thank you sincerely for engaging with commentary, especially with this sort of clarification and description of personal experience.
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Thank you so much for consistently doing so, Joe Klein.

“Keep trying folks. I’m still waiting for the proof.”
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Why do I imagine Rusty watching that video with his fingers in his ears yelling, “LALALALALA! I can’t hear you!”

What I learned from this thread.
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What Rusty’s voice sounds like. Nice to put a voice to poster.

“After all, it was protesters shouting “baby killer” at U.S. troops in the 60s that helped put the Democratic Party in the American doghouse for 40 years.”

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Hmm…. After my tour I joined the protesters. Like today the GOP capitalized on a lie and made it stick. It had little if anything to do with being called a Pig, Baby killer, or whatever.
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The GOP framed the issue as being a waste of 58,000 deaths. The Dems failed to point out that it was not necessary or in our National Interests. Also the escalation of the war was, correctly so, charged to a Dem. Administration, and the end was credited to NIxon even if we gave up. So the Dems were charged with being weak while escalating the war and the GOP was called strong for ending the war with out a victory.

This is worth examining, but only if we leave tribal and ideological pre-conclusions out of the examination.

…This is a Democrat LIE…there is no video…Maybe she said “Maggot”…
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Here’s the direct link to the ABC, for those who are too haven’t seen or are too lazy or wingnutty or homophobic to scroll down the page at the link Kevin provided earlier.
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http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/health-care-opposition-turns-ugly-10160724
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Give it up, freedumblog; at least part of your teabagging is fueled by hate. Denying it in the face of video evidence and eyewitness testimony makes you look all the worse.

Not to mention passing Civil Rights legislation that still has an effect in in the South, probably the main reason there is still a Rep Party.

Was there any doubt about what the so-called tea parties were about before? Really? Well, OK. That’s cleared up now, right? These are people who believe that when the majority party passes legislation it campaigned on (more or less) then it is tyranny. These are the people who will brandish firearms in order to defend the right to be uninsured, but wave the flag with pride when the government opens their e-mails without a warrant. These are the people that believe with all their hearts that pi$$ing billions of dollars a day into the Iraqi sand was a real swell idea, but see the shadow of the hammer and sickle when U.S. infrastructure is in dire need of repair. These are very confused people. Very loud and very confused people. Any other questions?

Joe Klein, The MSM and the Liberals posting on this site are engaging is the worst kind of Character Assassination possible in our Democracy. You actions are totally UN American and undemocratic.

If the Tea Party were liberal in their views you would be praising them as grass roots Patriotic Americans. Since they tend to be conservative in their views you see them as a group that must be discredited and destroyed. Your actions are totally disgusting.

You are attempting to demonize a large group for the possible actions of a few. You would never allow this to happen to a liberal group.

You call these people Brown Shirts and radicals. Take a close look at them. They look like your parents. A large percentage are senior citizens never active in politics before.
They are only exercising their rights under our constitution as free men and women to protest against policies on which they disagree.

Ever movement since the beginning of our country has had a few people with bad manners or signs. It is UN-American to condemn the entire group for the action of a few.

Stuart, Do you have the courage to explain the truth to your Liberal friends on this site?

Any other questions?
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1) Why wouldn’t we expect ordinary people to defend the way of life they know, and to justify the beliefs and mythologies they hold dear?
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2) What’s the liberal plan for dealing with that entirely predictable phenomenon?
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3) What local, organically-arising forces and organizations are the natural counters to indigenous, popular conservatism, and how can liberals recognize and support them?

Stuart:

1. Ordinary people we can deal with. The people making death threats are morally deficient and probably psychologically disturbed.

2. What’s the conservative plan for dealing with this morally deficient, mob mentality? Apparently, the plan is to embrace it!

3. Beats the hell out of me.

3xfire3:
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Thank you for commenting. I am the type of individual if there were people, and I have not said there were not those in the crowd who foster racist thoughts or may have even said a racist remark. I am sure that there was someone at that rally who holds a racist view of what the Tea Party is trying to accomplish.
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But, and that is a big big but, those individuals I met, talked with and watched were not in any shape or form proposing or advocating for a racist agenda.
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This is what the Democrats and Joe Klein are attempting to do with this grass roots movement. It is their way of shutting it down. To demonize it to serve their purpose of quieting the millions of voices which are against the Obama agenda to transform this country into his “idea” of what it should be.
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Freedom of Speech is a double edged sword. In the 1960′s people shouted “baby killer” and “pig” often and at our troops coming home. Joe Klein admits he himself did it. Was it right? No.
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But, I will defend and fight against those who try to silence through what I believe to be adversive tactics as we have witness from Joe Klein, ABC News and all other sources as nothing but a diversion from the real agenda on the left.
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Go ahead and make your allegations. Your own snide remarks. Your vulgar epiteths, it just makes me more determined and more adamant to make this movement stronger and the voice folks on the right need at this time to defeat Obama the Divider.

3xfire3:
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I’d like to think that I have a reasonable amount of courage, and that I’m somewhat in possession of the truth occasionally, but…
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Well, let’s start off with some misconceptions of yours, because, while I understand why you’re offended, I don’t think you’re making the right case.
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If the Tea Party were liberal in their views you would be praising them as grass roots Patriotic Americans.
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You are attempting to demonize a large group for the possible actions of a few. You would never allow this to happen to a liberal group.
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Since they tend to be conservative in their views you see them as a group that must be discredited and destroyed.

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I would say to you that you’re missing the gigantic elephant in the room, which isn’t really something I blame you for, since I understand the offense you’ve taken.
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That huge elephant is the fact that you don’t have to be a conservative activist for Joe Klein to disparage you. All you have to be is an activist, right or left.
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Didn’t you just read Joe discredit an entire movement of millions of ordinary people who came to realize that their government had lied to them about a war, and that it was time to take control back, and stop it?
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Joe specifically discredits the left, and all of the people who sympathized enough with the left’s position on the out-of-control Federal government and its Viet Nam war, for the actions of a mythical few “baby-killer” shouters, whoever they were.
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Don’t you see? It’s exactly the same trick.
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Joe Klein subscribes to a political philosophy called Third Way centrism, and those people don’t trust you or I to think for ourselves, and to exercise control over our government. These folks don’t like it when we protest or engage in any activism above working and shopping. It scares them. They think we’re idiots, and ignorant, and unable to grasp the policy that’s good for us. Joe believes that there’s this huge mass of people called the “Radical Middle” for whom he and his colleagues speak, who want technocrats like Joe (and Joe’s sources, and Joe’s cocktail party attendees) to run things for them, limit their political choices to what Joe believes are appropriate, and make all their decisions, so the “Radical Middle” can get back to watching American Idol in peace. Joe makes up in his head what that “Radical Middle” wants and needs, and then tells people like you and me to shut up when we go outside of those boundaries. Yes, he’s pretty dishonest about his political enemies –ordinary people angry at how our system works– much of the time.
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What you see as “liberal bias” in Joe Klein is his anti-populist bias, his disdain for ordinary people, and that’s not a liberal value, that’s a centrist value. Lack of respect for a democratically governed people is a Third Way principle.
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So, first of all, I really think you need to reevaluate what you’re seeing here, and try to suspend your pre-conceptions of what “liberal” means, so that you can understand what the political ideology that Joe Klein represents really is. Don’t just take my word for all of this –Google the phrase “Stalking the Radical Middle,” and read what Joe thinks yourself.
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Thanks for reading and considering this, 3xfire3.

Thanks so much for your reply, Joe. That’s great stuff.
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You’re right, of course, that some distasteful things that protesters did helped turn people against them.
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But that was– I believe– always a small number of politically weak protesters. Whereas there is zero difference between the sign-waving tea partier and GOP leaders like Boehner, Steele, Limbaugh, and Palin. To say nothing of the gleefully unprincipled amorality of their policy positions.
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So I think that destor23 is correct that this was false equivalence. Now, the myth of the super-duper important extremist left-wing protester is a cherished aspect of conventional wisdom that probably isn’t going away any time soon. But folks in the news-reporting business don’t necessarily have to go around trumpeting it all the time, either…
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Anyway, thanks for engaging in the discussion here.

“You are attempting to demonize a large group for the possible actions of a few. You would never allow this to happen to a liberal group.”
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You’re missing the point.
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The problem isn’t a few bad apples. It’s the encouragement of the bad apples by the supposed adults in charge.
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The left is quick to censure their own. MoveOn and Michael Moore get periodic slaps on their wrists for perceived misbehavior. The right not only provides cover for the miscreants, they often outright support it. That’s how a lot of folks in the middle and the left see it.
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But, at its heart, the Tea Partiers are a populist movement. Their anger may be pointed in some of the wrong directions (often with assistance of astroturf groups like FreedomWorks, et al), but to write them all off as racists is as foolish as saying that there no racists among them. I often think we’d be better off trying to explain to them that the Insurance Corporations might not have their best interests in mind, rather than just calling them racists, or theists, or ignorant, and then ignore them. Or least the ones who aren’t truly racist, theist, or willfully ignorant.

Unedited, original video of the Black Caucas.
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The proof my liberal friends are unable to produce. The proof that Joe Klein attempts to discredit.

@stuartzechman

Totally agreed, but I think the evidence shows pretty conclusively what’s going on, and which side its going on, especially now that we’ve seen a wave of death threats made on Democratic legislators, vandalism etc. Its Brownshirt tactics, by any definition of the term, and its being carried out exclusively by one side.

For the record, I’m Irish. I’ve been watching this unfold from the UK (where we’re a little busy with our own election campaign.) I have little direct skin in this game, even if my politics do usually slant to the left (though not always – I support NATO expansion for example.)

I’m also a political scientist whose done quite a bit of study on Democratsation in the former Communist states, and Democracy in general. I can assure you – the rhetoric and tactics employed by the GOP are directly harmful to the long term survival of small-d democratic politics. And the only way they’ll stop is if the media starts calling them out on it, directly and forcefully.

@mementomori

Excellent point. Neither I, nor anyone else has a problem with the general political beliefs of the Tea Party or them demonstrating in favour of them – I think they’re wrong, but they’re perfectly entitled to express their point of view.

What is being objected to is the tactics – the widespread dispersal of the transparently racist conspiracy theory that Obama is not an American and therefore illegitimate. The constant hyperbolic rhetoric of the leaders comparing HCR to the Holocaust and Stalinism, death panels and so forth, implying that the Democrats are planning to MURDER people. The charges that this legislation represents the end of the Republic, implicitly justifying violent action to oppose it.

And we’re seeing the results now. Death threats, absue, vandalism and so forth. Words matter. Ideas have consequences. If the Tea Party crowd and the GOP don’t want to be associated with the Brownshirts in their midst then they should denounce them in the strongest terms possible and refuse to associate with them, and publicly refute the idea that the Democrats are trying to implement socialism, or destroy freedom, or any of the other nonsense they’ve been spewing. They’d tell Bachmann, King, Broun to stop making incendiary violent statements, and if they refused they’d kick them out of the Caucus. But they won’t, because they’re not prepared to be responsible.

The Tea Party leaders and the GOP let a rabid dog off the leash, and are trying to claim its not their fault if it bites someone. To keep the canine metaphors going – that dog won’t hunt.

I watched a show yesterday on TV on which some Professor opined that the violent responses to the African American members was an index of the boiling over of widely held American racist sentiments.

She further stated that since it was no longer SOCIALLY acceptable to propagate or hold vile Jim Crow type beliefs about African Americans, those sentiments still exist and are being fanned and brought to the fore by some within the Republican party.

I will not go as far as she did in her analysis. However, I will say that there is an undercurrent of HATE being fanned against our President.

Those behind this vicious campaign against him are using anything at their disposal to ensure that he loses his popularity and respect.

In doing so, I believe, they do not recognize the horrible and vicious climate they are promoting and upholding.

They disrespect President Obama in their actions. You can disagree with the holder for the highest political office in the land in a civil and cordial manner.

Senator McCain had the temerity to call the President “weak”.
Sadly, I believe he is speaking for many Republicans whose behavior seems to indicate they believe they will not be held to account for their conduct.

The Tea Partiers are almost LILY WHITE. You would be hard pressed to find Black and Hispanics of color in these marches. This trend makes me wonder about the credibility and real motive of these groups.

Fanning HATE, ANGER, ANTI AMERICAN SENTIMENT and PROMOTING BASELESS FEAR (Obama is the anti-Christ???) against Obama is wrong. If this trend is not promptly addressed by the Republicans, the consequences on the country might be broader and more far reaching than any of them have anticpated.

Promoting racial divide and encouraging irrational abuse and hate of the first African American President and other members of his party of the same race is NOT a good move.
The foreseeable consequences can be predicted by historians and rational right thinking PATRIOTS, I mean real patriots like me!

I hope the party will rein in the madness and stop this wholesale attack on Obama.

You can disagree with his policies and even attack his strategy and actions. However, masking loaded race related issues with asinine polls and absurd rumor mongering- by inciting tea party goers into a mob mentality and frenzy- is a very very BAD idea.

LM
http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/stalking-criminality-the-law-and-women/

More than the Vietnam war protests (which were generated by 10s of thousands dying in an undeclared war not a legitimate bill some disagree on), it was the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act that brought down the Democrats. There is no comparison between those events and the hysterical, demonstrations promoted by Fox and hate radio.
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John Lewis would tell you that.
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I do agree that the Republicans are alienating themselves from most Americans by their intolerance and by looking downright foolish.

Thank you stuart that was well said for a change. I do agree the “Third-way Democrats”, like Joe Klein have an agenda to shut down both the right and the left. It is their way of creating the chaos they need to remain in power over both sides. This is just another example of Joe Klein’s and the Third-way Democrats’ attempt to remain in control.

Ha! I think the republicans thought they shed their albatross when gw bush left office – but alas, it’s been replaced by a bigger bolder version – the teabaggers. Complete with their regressive mindset, blatant bigotry, and homophobia.

Do republicans honestly think they can sway moderates and independents by facillitating this type of rhetoric? They are not bystanders, many republican legislators are active participants in the teabagger activities. They have dismissed the slurs and offensive signage with wilfull blindness.

Really? They think calls for violence and vitriol are a means to the majority? Seriously?

They created this monster – they’ll have to live with the consequences in this country where minorities are becoming the majority…good luck.

publicly refute the idea that the Democrats are trying to implement socialism, or destroy freedom
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The Republican party apparatus and its leadership are particularly culpable in this deceit, far more so than the ordinary people who might be susceptible to it.
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We can’t forget, though, that the institution of the GOP is being held to a far different standard of characterization than activists by the Beltway press corps, who have their own share of blame for their role in the propagation of that sort of misinformation.
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When TIME’s Michael Scherer can write (link to yesterday’s post):

63 percent of self-identified Republicans considered Obama a “socialist,” a term that has different meetings for different people. (In some circles, any support of expanding government services, spending or responsibility is considered “socialism.”)

, as if “socialism” could reasonably be construed from the implementation of Keynesian economic policy in a recession, he demonstrates the culpability of the national press corps.
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The deceit isn’t merely in that GOP pols can get on the floor of the House of Representatives of the United States and flatly lie about Democrats’ plans for “socialism,” it’s also in that the press corps can’t bring itself to characterize that claim as a lie.
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The fact is that elites are responsible for the currency of these lies, because they possess far, far more power than ordinary activists to communicate misinformation. Only when “socialist” can be said by journalists to be “a term that has different meetings for different people,” can the dishonest irresponsibility of the Republican leadership truly flourish.
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It’s not just the right that’s culpable, it’s the center. It’s not the people with misinformation we should primarily blame, it’s the elites who spread deceit who must be held accountable.

“It’s not just the right that’s culpable, it’s the center. It’s not the people with misinformation we should primarily blame, it’s the elites who spread deceit who must be held accountable.”

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And the left for their brand of vitriol as well. It is not simply a “right / center” problem It is a problem across the board, but as I am sure I ignore the more radical right, you also ignore the left.
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Perhaps one day when we hold our own sides accountable, then you can begin to preach about it all Mr Zechman. Until then, I will continue what I do.

Wow, good job grapey. You ALMOST posted a video that said anything. Almost. What did you hear? You know at that “11 sec spot”.
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BLEEP!!

“But I never resorted to violence or to berating the troops–”
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And neither did the great majority of war protesters, which you would know if you were there. And nothing like today’s right-wing racist and authoritarian-following traitors, railing at outright partisan lies and threatening violence against government. We mostly hurled an “epithet or twenty in the direction of Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon,” over the terrible policies and lies they foisted on the country, just like you did. It’s a terrible analogy, except to betray your contempt for your former peers, the dirty hippies. What happened to you?

BLEEP!!
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That’s indicative of the FCC’s rule against the broadcasting of profane language, dimwit, not some vast conspiracy on the part of the mainstream media to make you teabaggers look like hateful idiots.
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Y’all don’t need the media’s help for that.

I’m trying to hold my side accountable to a standard of intellectual honesty, Rustyblog, but you rightists are making that much harder than it has to be, particularly when you deliberately misunderstand or lie:

Freedom of Speech is a double edged sword. In the 1960′s people shouted “baby killer” and “pig” often and at our troops coming home. Joe Klein admits he himself did it. Was it right? No.

No, that’s not what Joe Klein said at all. Joe Klein says that he protested the war when he was a kid, but that he

…never resorted to violence or to berating the troops–although I did toss an epithet or twenty in the direction of Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon.

Now you’ve made me waste time defending someone who will never defend me, Rustyblog, because I possess an intellectual honesty that compels me to do so.
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I’m stuck defending Joe Klein against rightists who misconstrue an admission of a long-gone liberalism as an admission of “spitting on the troops,” and I’m forced to defend Barack Obama’s health care reform package from ridiculous charges of “socialism,” all because you people indulge yourselves in the most absurd fantasies imaginable outside of an Ayn Rand novel.
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Why can’t you just admit that liberals weren’t traitors for opposing an out-of-control, unaccountable government that foisted an unnecessary war on a nation with bigger problems at the time (like Federal troops occupying Arkansas schools)? Why is it only tax-protest that’s legitimate to you?
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Why can’t you consider that, when you do things like publicly accuse the center of enacting a secret Stalinist plot, you’re just making it easier for them to do whatever they want, and to get away with calling both of us liars, Rustyblog?

@newfreedomblog

You’re now claiming that this is a problem ‘across the political spectrum’ but so far it seems pretty exclusive to the right wing.

Please show me ONE Democratic linked organisation that is currently engaging in aggressive mob tactics, shouting violent abusive rhetoric and making death threats to Congressmen. In fact, show me one Democratic linked organisation that has done so in the last 10, 20, 30, or even 40 years? (Prior to that the Democrats had a lot of Southern racists and Klansmen, so I’ll give you that…)

Stuart,

I understand that you are a liberal and not a Centralist. The points in your post make sense and probably most conservatives and independents do not understand the difference between liberals and centralist and tend to lump them all together. Hopefully people like you will help communicate these differences so we all have a better understanding of political ideas.

Stuart, I would like to hear specifically what you think about the Tea Party Movement and how they are covered by the MSM.

On the other hand,
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FBI investigates Virginia incident
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34934.html
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Rep. Weiner Received Anti-Semitic Notes During
Health-Care Debate
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http://forward.com/articles/126814/

3xfire3:
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, I would like to hear specifically what you think about the Tea Party Movement and how they are covered by the MSM.
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I’m suspicious of how the movement is being covered, and whether or not certain elements are being sensationalized for tabloid value.
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Joe Klein isn’t reporting anything, he’s a columnist, which means he’s paid to influence public opinion the way that TIME’s editors believe it should be influenced, so the fact that Joe is exploiting the coverage for his own political purposes isn’t persuasive to me one way or another.
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When I get emails like this one, from the Democratic National Committee, subject line “Heroes under attack”

Stuart –
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We need to act.
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On Sunday night, many Congressional Democrats in tough districts cast courageous votes for health reform — even though they knew that insurance companies and their Republican allies would retaliate immediately.
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Well, the attacks are here. Shameful, negative ads have already hit the airwaves. Democratic offices have been vandalized. Republicans are promising to repeal reform and smearing those who supported it.
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But we’re ready to do what it takes to defend the heroes who made health reform possible.
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These are the men and women who stood with us and the President to make good on a promise that our Party has fought to deliver for a century. And we will not leave them hanging out to dry.
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Please chip in $5 or more to defend those in Congress who fought to make health reform possible?
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These are the people who worked hand in hand with President Obama and grassroots Democrats to finally bring affordable coverage to 32 million more Americans, enact the toughest insurance regulations in history, and bring down costs for families, small businesses, and our government.
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At a time of historic achievement for our country, Republicans and the extreme right wing are responding by pushing fear and intimidation.
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They’ve launched a campaign to “fire” Nancy Pelosi, complete with imagery of the first female Speaker of the House surrounded by flames. Congresswoman Louise Slaughter had a brick thrown through her office window. A Virginia blog posted Congressman Tom Perriello’s home address, urging tea partiers to “drop by.”
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The Democratic National Committee is already fighting back hard, with a sophisticated ad strategy, events on the ground, and the best rapid-response program in the history of politics. But we need your help to keep it up.
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Please chip in $5 or more:
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http://my.democrats.org/Heroes
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If we learned one thing from the fight for health reform, it’s this: Hope can triumph over fear, the truth can beat out the most vicious of lies, and our movement, organized, can overcome even the most powerful of opponents. Let’s not stop now.
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Thanks,
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Governor Tim Kaine
Chairman

, I start to look for how coverage seems to be coordinated, as in how it seems to resemble a public relations campaign, and I keep my eyes open.
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That said, the idea that a movement that believes completely insane things like Glenn Beck’s ideas on how a proof of a communist conspiracy is literally inscribed on the NBC building murals in New York is capable of getting ugly fast isn’t unreasonable in the slightest.
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It’s not hard to believe that people who take seriously the idea that a huge Federal program of private insurance company subsidies is evidence of a communist-fascist coup could be easily misled further into violence.
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I mean, I know that I’d be inclined to take action, if I believed those things, wouldn’t you?
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So this is a tough call, 3xfire3. I’m not sure what’s being blown out of proportion, and what’s not.
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The trouble is, if you had told me that it was reported that Republicans were calling the most corporate of corporate health care reform plans –Bob Dole’s plan, for heaven’s sake– “socialism,” I would have told you that this reporting was probably sensationalism, you know what I mean? But that’s actually what happened!
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So I don’t know, to be honest. I’m going to watch and see, and then make up my own mind.
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Does that make sense, 3xfire3?

“Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Republican Party?” I believe that’s where we are heading.

Pierogielunaire:

RIGHT ON to your very clear comment and even more so to your reply!

Slightly off topic perhaps, but didn’t the Civil Rights Act result in MORE charged up liberal-leaning activists, and the Voting Rights Act result in MORE democratic-leaning voters…..?

Do you mean that “backlash” damaged the Democrats?

Stuart,

I think you are doing a disservice to the Liberal cause when you stand by and watch a grass roots movement of American citizens be demonized by the MSM, Liberals and Centralists alike and say nothing to defend their rights as citizens. There is little proof of any misdeeds by Tea Party members. Only unproven reports by people who have an ax to grind against them. They are being singled out for their political views and not their actions. The bad behavior of a few does not make it OK to demonize the whole group.
When 3 members of the SEAU beat up a black man in front of a Town Hall meeting, I didn’t hear a good deal of reporting on it. What if it had been 3 members of the TEA Party? It would have been front page news in the NYT and every other MSM in the country. Is this fair? Is it not hypocritical?

Stuart,

Read 11.8

Thank you, hubbmax. I should also have added that the leaders who fail to condemn the morally deficient behavior share in the blame.

OBAMA SEEKING TO MAKE USA ILLEGAL DICTATORSHIP & SEEKING ILLEGAL AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS WHILE USA PUBLIC IS LEFT TO DIE WITHOUT MEDS…

UNLESS THE USA FORCES THIS HEALTHCARE TO BE REPEALED THIS IS WHAT AWAITS USA ….

USA WILL BECOME SHARIA LAW MUSLIM OWNED NATION U NATION DICTATOR TO USA PULIC….USA PUBLIC WILL LOSE ALL RIGHTS & FREEDOMS EFFECTIVLY DESTROYING OUR CONSTITUTION SO ANY CITIZEN WILL BE ABLE TO BE ARRESTED BY ANY MUSLIM & ON TRUMPED UP CHARGES THROWIN INTO JAIL WITHOUT TRIAL, WITHOUT PROTECTION FROM DOUBLE JEOPARD & WITHOUT NEED FOR UNANIMOUS VERDICT–FOREVER

USA PUBLIC WILL BE FORCED TO SURRENDER ALL HEALTHCARE TECH & TECH TO OUR ENEMIES WHOM WILL TURN AROUND AND DEPRIVE USA OF THEM FOREVER

USA will be FORCED to release MUSLIM prisoners to CONTINUE TO rape, murder & commit TERRORISTS ACTIVITIES against NON-MUSLIMS because under their rules ALL MUSLIMS are EXEMPT from prosecution for all crimes committed towards NON-MUSLIMS….

SO. WANNA KNOW WHAT THE DEMS HAVE SAID ABOUT HOW STUPID THEY CONSIDER THE USA PUBLIC TO BE???HUH….TAKE A GANDER LOOK…..

…To the present it’s only one of the 1 % group of people attempting to destroy our Nation’s economic systems.

WHY??? It was said to a WASH DC VIP—that the reason the Socialists think they will win this time and are doing this is because ACLU and their DEMS SLUGS — they don’t think American’s are ” smart enough” to care to let their fingers do the walking to protect their lands, their CONSTITUTION or their freedoms. The DEMS and ACLU don’t think the 99% of American’s will be ‘smart enough” to CARE about their country, their homes, their small business enough to kick the WASH DC SLUGS out and send them packing by way of Balagovich for NOT doing what is right to protect PUBLIC freedoms and the free enterprise system (ie meaning small business/med business) and rights.

IF THE DEMS think they are going to use these attempts to power grab MORE of the PUBLICS freedom they will find the PUBLIC ISN’T ABOUT TO FORGET all the RACIAL HURLES THE DEMS said about our beloved condi Rice during elections…

DEMS should be smart enough to know our PUBLIC does have quite long, long memories and PUBLIC ISN’T GOING TO FORGET ANYTIME SOON —legally.

DON’T TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT GO SEE FOR YOURSELVES…. SEEK TO REPEAL THAT HEALTHCARE BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE….

seek legislative and LEGAL action to get OBAMA HC & stimulus and bailout kicked out see American Center for LAW & JUSTICE OR GOOGLE the problems with socialized health care OR GOOGLE handsoffmyhealth.org OR GOOGLE bigGovhealth.org OR stoptheaclu.com OR health science institute OR familysecuritymatters.org OR Alliance Defense

3xfire3
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Read 18

Thank you so much for that. You are a true patriot. I especially respect your use of all caps to really drive home the point. But, alas, I do not think we can turn back the tidal wave of Socialism inundating our country. From time to time the tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots, yes? Will you join me, Aussi, even though the odds we face are insurmountable? You are clearly a brave American for speaking out against these crimes, but are you brave enough to defend what is rightfully ours? I think you are. Join me as I embark on a righteous crusade.

Ah screw it, I’m just going to go watch some hockey. Good luck with the revolution.

“They are being singled out for their political views and not their actions.”
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Both, actually. The fact that one in four thinks that Obama might be the AntiChrist proves that it’s not only “a few” and also that they’re batsh!t insane. Their actions, so far, include hundreds or possibly thousands of death threats – they’re recorded so you can’t dismiss them as “unproven” – traveling hundreds of miles, sometimes armed, to carry signs depicting the President of the United States as a witchdoctor with a bone through his nose, as Hitler, as an evil arch-villian, while invoking armed revolution and succession, in addition to throwing rocks through politician’s windows and other vandalism threatening a politician’s brother. They haven’t been “singled out” nearly enough.

The difference between fundamentalist terrorists and domestic terrorists as some in the Tea Bagging Party is getting very thin.

They both find it ok to commit acts of violence for their principles.

Any sane republicans or conservatives who are left, and who do not condone the madness by the rightwing fringe group, had better speak UP LOUDLY and SOON!

Before we have another Oklahoma City Bombing, because some a**hole decided to be a “patriot” and start a revolution, as suggested by morons like Rep. Michelle Bachmann and Rep. Steve King.

Stuart,

I’ve always treated you with respect and respected your posts even when I personally did not agree with everything you have written.
Today you have disappointed me. You have not shown the wisdom or courage I thought you possessed. Too bad.

I think I’m being pretty fair about it, 3xfire3.
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I’m not sure why you would think that:
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So this is a tough call, 3xfire3. I’m not sure what’s being blown out of proportion, and what’s not.
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and
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So I don’t know, to be honest. I’m going to watch and see, and then make up my own mind.
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are such unreasonable positions to take, given the circumstance, and given the lack of personal knowledge I have of the Tea Partiers.
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But I’m not holding myself out as a perfect human being possessed of infinite wisdom, either, so maybe you’re right.

Leftist loon Joe Klein asserts (with the predictable absence of ANY evidence): “This, after Congressman John Lewis was called a ‘nigger’ and Barney Frank was called a ‘faggot’”.

When will Joe Klein or any other leftist loon at Time magazine or at any other leftist political advocacy group (e.g., ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, CNN, MSDNC, self-described Comedy Central, the New York Times-Democrat, the Washington Post-Democrat, the execrable Associated (with terrorists) Press, et al.) produce any evidence to support Klein’s allegation? Do Klein and Time magazine have video evidence to support Klein’s allegation? Here’s actual video evidence debunking Lewis and Klein and Time magazine’s discredited allegation that Lewis was called a “nigger”. http://powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/03/025884.php

BTW, when will Klein produce evidence to support his thoroughly debunked and discredited conspiracy theory that Donald Rumsfeld declared that Lt. Gen. David McKiernan would not take another command because, according to Klein’s fantasy, Rumsfeld was upset that McKiernan had fallen asleep in Rumsfeld’s presence. Please, note: Lt. Gen. McKiernan was subsequently promoted to general and took command of U.S. Army Europe while none other than Donald Rumsfeld was the freakin’ Secretary of Defense.

BTW, although there is no evidence to support leftist loon Barney Frank’s allegation that he was called a “faggot”, would it be okay to call him a “teabagger” or would the predictable leftist loons at ABC, NBC, PBS, CBS, CNN, MSDNC, the New York Times-Democrat, et al., declare that to be a “homophobic” so-called “slur” although said leftist loons at said leftist political advocacy groups have repeatedly called members of the pro-America community “teabaggers”?