In the Arena

Bad Week for Bibi

The passage of health care reform has, rightly, stolen most of the media oxygen this week, but there’s also been a visit from Israel’s prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu and, despite an eloquent (if wrong-headed) speech to the AIPAC lobbyists, this has not been a very successful week for him. As the Times points out today, Netanyahu has faced setbacks on both sides of the Atlantic.

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have refused to bend in their dispute over Israel’s illegal settlements; meanwhile, the British Foreign Minister David Miliband–who is Jewish–announced that Britain had expelled an Israeli diplomat because of the use of false British passports by the assassins–likely Mossad agents–who killed a Hamas operative in Dubai last month. (Add: And, of course, there is the fact that the U.S. military, led by General David Petraeus, has gone public with its belief that Israel’s intransigence on settlements is endangering American troops in the field.)

This Washington Post report about Netanyahu’s meetings with President Obama is interesting because of the body language: First of all, for the second consecutive visit, Netanyahu rated none of the pomp that usually attends the visit of a head of state. Second, there were two meetings. Obama met with Netanyahu. Then Netanyahu consulted his aides in the Roosevelt Room. Then Obama and Netanyahu met again. This would seem to indicate that Obama was driving the conversation, either by making a new offer or continuing to insist on an Israel settlement freeze…and Netanyahu repaired to the Roosevelt Room to consider it. Chances are the offer was rejected, or  a definitive answer was put off, since there was no public photos after the second Oval Office meeting. Chances are that any sort of concession is difficult for Netanyahu, given his right-wing coalition straitjacket.

Finally, recent polling by Haaretz in Israel and J Street in the United States indicate that Netanyahu’s position isn’t entirely popular with Israelis or American Jews. The J Street polling–which conforms with other recent surveys–suggest that American Jews approve of the active role the Obama Administration is taking in the middle east negotiations…and that American Jews also, by wide margins, approve of U.S. efforts to get both sides in the dispute to make sacrifices for peace. The Haaretz poll indicates that feelings toward Obama aren’t as negative as commonly portrayed–though not exactly positive, either–and that feelings about Netanyahu are decidedly mixed.

It is easy to lose track of reality in the harsh, bullying blast of the neoconservative noise machine. But, as with health reform, it seems the noisemakers aren’t quite so representative of American opinion as they pretend. Most American Jews believe, as ever, that a two-state solution is the only logical outcome that will allow the continued existence of a state of Israel. It will be a state, as Netanyahu said, with Jerusalem as its capital. But Palestine will also be a state with Jerusalem as its capital–and the exact parameters of those two capitals are to be negotiated, not decided unilaterally by the Netanyahu government.

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  • alexvallas

    Any illusion that Israel is an ally of the United States is just that, an illusion. Numerous American Generals said the actions taken by Israel to build new settlements in occupied terrorities puts our troops serving in the Middle East in greater danger. Of course, Israeli and some American Jews could care less. They are only concerned with what benefits Israel. Bebi is a dispicable and hateful person who thinks he can use AIPAC to intimidate the President of the United States and dictate American foreign policy. We should immediately cut all funds to Israel and divert those billions to offset the expenses of the Healthcare Bill. Israeli policy benefits by antagonizing the Arab States knowing that it further aggravates our relations with those countries because of our support and supposedly friendship. Hopefully, President Obama will not back down like Israel’s puppet Bush. Further, American Jews should decide where their allegiance lies. It it is Israel first, they should move there.

  • nflfoghorn

    Only half-agree, Alex. They are indeed allies and funds will not be cut off. That said, Nahoohoo and his right-wing buddies think they own the territory they stole back in ’67. Nahoohoo and the Likud know they’re up to no good but no one’s challenged them until now. I love my kids too but when they do wrong there’s no negotiating to let them get away with whatever unacceptable action they did. Same applies here.

  • mrein

    “And, of course, there is the fact that the U.S. military, led by General David Petraeus, has gone public with its belief that Israel’s intransigence on settlements is endangering American troops in the field.”
    .
    I know Klein doesn’t care about the facts, but I’ll point them out in case anybody else does.
    .
    Petraeus said that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict causes ill will among moderate arab governments because of the perception that the U.S. favors Israel.
    .
    Now putting aside the wisdome of the U.S. choosing our allies based on the opinions of some of the most repressive regimes in the world, this is not nearly the same thing as “intransigence on settlements.”
    .
    The arab regimes, which do not recognize Israel and don’t do anything to help the welfare of the Palestinians living in those countries or in Israel itself, don’t care about an equitable peace or about settlements. They just hate Israel.

  • michaelfury

    “The Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv on Wednesday reported that Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu told an audience at Bar Ilan university that the September 11, 2001 terror attacks had been beneficial for Israel.

    “We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,” Ma’ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events “swung American public opinion in our favor.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/975574.html

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/movers-and-shakers/

  • sevenoaks07

    mrein: you are entitled to your opinion but on the subject of Arab nations not helping the Palestinians financially you are wrong. Over the years they have poured millions into the West Bank and Gaza. On their non-recognitions of Israel: Egypt and Jordan crossed that bridge years ago. Qatar and the Emirates were building ties which are now frozen because of the assassination of a Hamas leader in Dubai. Regretfully neither side has much to crow about when it comes to treating each other as humans. Listen to Hamas and the Shas Party.

  • mrein

    Sevenoaks07-
    .
    Thank you for your cordial response.
    .
    That said, I do not believe I am incorrect. I agree that Arab nations provide some financial support to the Palestinians, it’s really barely a trickle of funds. They pledge a lot of funds for p.r. purposes, but rarely make good on those pledges despite vast oil wealth. The vast amount of financial aid to Palestinians comes from the U.S., the U.N. and other international bodies. Check out: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/26/AR2008072601797.html.
    .
    And the big point remains why Palestinian refugees of war are unique in not being able to settle in their host countries, unlike for example the Jewish refugees of Arab countries after 1948. The answer, of course, is that the concern isn’t for those Palestinians’ welfare, but rather their use as a cudgel against Israel.

  • mrein

    There’s no doubt that the September 11 attacks swung American public opinion in Israel’s favor. Having a common enemy will do that. Especially when the reports and footage of Palestinians celebrating in the street after the attacks were broadcast so widely.

  • sevenoaks07

    mrein: Arab countries did not want to incorporate Palestinians into their nations and insisted that they remain refugees because they felt that Palestine would disappear if that happened. You may recall that after WW11 Jews were settled on both sides of the Atlantic but were free to go to Israel to make sure the fledgling state could have enough citizens to develop into present day israel. That same argument is made among Arab leaders in respect of Palestine. Now we know that Israeli leaders hoped that if Arab neighbours absorbed Palestinian refugees it would make Israel “more Jewish”. That did not happen because the current birth rate among Israeli Arabs is such that a Jewish majority is still not feasible. That said, the combination of Arabs in Israel and the Occupied territories (Gaza until the Israeli withdrawal) is a downer as far as israel is concerned.

    The Arabs are there to stay and what is needed is political leadership on both sides to arrive at a settlement suiting both parties and not building settlements on Arab land by Israelis.

  • formerlyjames

    Not that Israel lacked US support before the attack, but to add irony, the attack was precipitated primarily by the Israeli issues.
    ..
    On that issue of support, I would say that even though Netanyahu faces passing discord during his visit to AIPAC and Congress and the secondary visit to the President, it is on balance a very good week for him and right wing Israel. The HCR circus solidified the lines of political divide in America, and the anti-HCR ring decidedly favors Israel and the resultant conflict, war, and expense of all that, including aid to Israel. In addition, Netanyahu pranced about Congress as an honored member and had members of both sides of the American political divide genuflecting at his alter.
    ..
    Let’s all join together and issue harsh sanctions against Iran followed by a good ol’ invasion. Nothing like war to bring us together.

  • grape_crush

    Petraeus said that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict causes ill will among moderate arab governments because of the perception that the U.S. favors Israel.
    .
    Exact quote:

    “…Enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests in the area of responsibility. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples [in the region],” said Petraeus.

    http://ventura.com-california.net/petraeus-tells-senate-israeli-actions-endangering-u-s-troops.html
    .
    I believe that you can imagine how the perception of America as Israel’s lackey impacts the effectiveness of the military’s mission on your own.
    .
    this is not nearly the same thing as “intransigence on settlements.”
    .
    I believe that the Israeli settlements are part of the ‘Palestinian question’ Petraeus refers to in the above quote.
    .
    Oh, and a repressive government is not really considered moderate, is it? You may want to clarify.

  • shepherdwong

    Speaking of pigs.

  • ddan1

    1) Jerusalem is Israel’s capital and not an illegal settlement.
    2) About the polls, Israelis’ feelings about netanyahu are actually quite good thank you very much. Polls can indicate anything the authors want to (in this case haaretz). See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yhN1IDLQjo
    3) to indicate the US’ positive intentions, I suggest American construction in Washington DC is halted for the next half year. Any settlement there would be considered illegal.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    East Jerusalem continues to not be recognized as Israeli territory by the United Nations and the world at large. By the concepts of International Law, that would make any construction in East Jerusalem started by Israel illegal unless accepted by the Palestinians.
    .
    That said, you are correct that polls could be brought to mean anything. In this case, JK’s interpretation seems a tad flawed – in the same poll he cited, the Israeli populace apparently favors continued construction in East Jerusalem 48-41 so that could just as easily be spun into being a good sign for this week.
    .
    Your third comment is absolutely ridiculous by any measure.

  • greuven

    Sevenoaks07,

    After WWII, the British, in control of Palestine as part of their Mandate until their withdrawal three years later, continued to refuse entry to most Jewish refugees from Europe. They actually forcibly turned back shiploads of Holocaust survivors and put them in Displaced Persons camps – some located in Germany, of all places! “Exodus” is the famous fictionalized version of one of those real-life ships. Therefore, Jews were most certainly not free to get to Israel.

    Like it or not, the Palestinians are the only group of people in the world who have remained unsettled refugees for such a long period of time. Whether or not Arab countries had legitimate reasons to refuse to absorb Palestinian refugees (and I would disagree with your reasoning), this is an undeniable fact. Do not forget that the Arabs (before they were referred to as Palestinians) in the West Bank and Gaza were treated as refugees even when those territories were under Jordanian and Egyptian control, prior to 1967.

    As for demographics, Arabs currently make up around 20% of Israel’s population (this doesn’t include the WB or Gaza, as the Palestinians living there do not possess Israeli citizenship), and this number has remained more or less constant since 1948. While the Israeli-Arab birthrate is higher than the average Jewish-Israeli birthrate, this has been offset by Jewish immigration and high religious birthrates. It is true, however, that when you include the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, the Jewish majority evaporates. Israel has no desire to include the Palestinians as citizens, though, and the majority of Israelis support the establishment of an independent state of Palestine, at which point that fact becomes irrelevant.

    Your last sentence is spot on, though. I would merely clarify that “Arab land” does not necessarily conform precisely to the 1949 armistice line, and any fair and just agreement would include land swaps to avoid forcibly relocating hundred of thousands of people, and to grant Palestinians a contiguous area of land on which to build their country. Thus, Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem are clearly there to stay, while any Jewish construction or takeovers of buildings in Arab East Jerusalem is unacceptable.

  • greuven

    Actually, forgottenlord, Jerusalem isn’t recognized by any country in the world as Israel’s legitimate capital, not even uncontroversial West Jerusalem. That would be akin to the entire world deciding that from now on, they would refer to New York as America’s capital, instead of Washington DC.

  • soxdon

    Officials added that Israel had received assurances that the diplomat asked to leave could be replaced within six weeks, once the general election was over

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7513480/Israel-brushes-off-Mossad-agents-expulsion-from-Britain.html

    UK govt and Israel don’t have good relations but this was more timed for labour to gain core votes right before their election.

  • alexvallas

    I believe the General said a lot more about this behind closed doors but a few comments leaked. Supposedly, the several high ranking generals thought the threat to be much greater than the press releases. Now, when we talk about represssive governments, one has to look at the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis. They are harsh occupiers and that opinion is voiced by numerous nations and international humane organizations. Someone will immediately state that Palestine is not being occupied. Wrong, any time you control the borders and what enters and leaves the country — it is occupation. The Israelis actually block needed food and medical supplies. I get my news from the main American News Media and some from newspapers published in Europe. Of course, they could all be lying.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Actually, it’s more like the US declaring New York City as their capital and the rest of the world not recognizing the change….

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Addendum: also worth noting that East Jerusalem isn’t even considered sovereign territory of Israel. It would be like the US deciding to build condominiums on Iraqi soil for Americans without the approval of the Iraqi government.

  • greuven

    (In response to 5.3) Umm…no it’s not. Israel declared Jerusalem as it’s capital right from the start. The world prefers to ignore that and refer to Tel Aviv as Israel’s capital. It never ceases to amuse me when news reports refer to “Tel-Aviv” as making government decisions, when the government isn’t actually in Tel Aviv.

  • http://realityzone-realityzone.blogspot.com/ mojozone

    Jerusalem will never ever be an undivided capitol for Israel. Only the evangelical Xtians would approve of this.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Michael Fury~

    Forget what he said Wednesday, it’s been long enough since 9-11 to start talking geopolitical relevance. Unfortunately, Mr. Netanyahu was thinking in geopolitical terms as early as September 12, 2001, when he said on CNN that the attacks were good for Israel. Ah, what a friend. What an ally. Thanks for the moral support, Bibi.

  • sevenoaks07

    greuven: I don’t think we disagree. My only point: once Israel became a nation Jews were free to settle there and they did so. For many the increase in numbers was at the heart of the matter; bodies were needed for the defense of the new homeland. Because Israel is an artificial creation those Arabs within the new borders complicated complication regarding identity.

    But you make a basic point: neither side is in a position to claim sole ownership over tracts of land. There were and are clearly identifiable Jewish and Arab neighbourhood, many with solid historical evidence to back their settlements. And Jerusalem gives all a problems. I am somewhat surprised that the Christians haven’t been loud in claiming tractsof land and some towns as their own.

    Thank you for your response.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Actually, all the analogies are wrong. In actuality, it’s more like this:
    .
    The United Nations, having taken over authority from colonial powers, deems it prudent and morally justifiable to partition the Palestine Mandate into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. The UN explicity excludes Jerusalem from either of these soveriegn zones, opting instead to have an open, international city of Jerusalem given its great importance to the three major Abrahamic religions. The newly formed state of Israel, however, has other plans, and militarily occupies Jerusalem, a move that is not recognized by any state in the world and directly contravenes the UN Partition Plan, which was the sole legal directive justifying an Israeli state in the first place. There really is no comparable analogy. Jerusalem was not part of the state of Israel as partitioned. Period. Any claims to soveriegnty over Jerusalem directly violate international law.

  • greuven

    Shhhhh!
    .
    Don’t give them any ideas! It will only make things more complicated!
    .
    The truth is, though, various sects of Christianity do have disagreements of their own over stewardship of churches and religious sites. Jerusalem has had that effect on people for thousands of years.

  • greuven

    Really, exiled, you’re usually better about getting the facts right. Once the Arab nations rejected the UN partition plan and invaded, those borders lost all relevance. Sovereign Israeli territory, as recognized by the UN, includes West Jerusalem. Therefore, by definition, Israel’s claim to sovereignty is legal.
    .
    Forgottenlord, I won’t try to justify building US settlements in Iraq, but don’t forget that the US expansion westward involved settling in territories that were not under American sovereignty at the time. Granted, there was more land available, but there were also Native American tribes already living there.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    greuven: I would equally point out that there are large segments of the world that think the expansionism to the West, taking the land from the Native American tribes, was a great crime in its own right.

  • greuven

    And yet they recognize American sovereignty there.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Grueven,
    ~
    The UN now recognizes West Jerusalem as part of Israel. But, the 1947 Partition Plan did not establish that. Israel violated this when it annexed Jerusalem. The world’s refusal to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is due to the fact that Israel does not distinguish between West and East Jerusalem in designating the city as its capital.
    ~
    And, for the record, the Israelis rejected the partition as well, not solely the Arabs. This is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter who supported it and who rejected it. At least the Arabs outright rejected it, no questions about it, while the Israelis merely used it as a ploy to get a foothold before expanding deeper into Palestine. David Ben-Gurion, first PM of Israel, said in 1938: After we become a strong force, as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine. Then, Menachim Begin, future PM of Israel, said in 1948: The partition of the Homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of the partition agreement is invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and will forever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever. Accepting the partition formally was but a means to an expansionist end, Grueven. This you know. The point is, the borders drawn up by the UN are not null and void the moment one of the parties involved decides it is unhappy with the arrangement.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    At the time, the world was ruled by the concept of he with the bigger gun is right. The world has grown up a bit since then. By the time the UN was founded, the process of colonization had reached such a point that the American populace were the majority in every region of America, not the natives. In effect, they had already completed the Swiss cheese campaign in America that Israel is currently doing in the mid-East. Had the UN existed back then, I would hope that the US’s claim to the frontier would be rejected by the International Community just as surely as I would hope that both the cities I was raised and currently reside (Calgary and Edmonton, Canada, respectively) would be considered territory of the Natives.

  • greuven

    Exiled, you’re quite off base here.
    .
    1. The world refused to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel starting in 1948. Israel only captured East Jerusalem in 1967. Therefore, the “excuse” (according to you) for the world’s refusal didn’t exist at the time of said refusal.
    .
    2. You quote Ben-Gurion from 1938, while the UN partition plan was created in 1947. You do realize that this is also chronologically backwards, don’t you? What Ben-Gurion was actually referring to was one of several hare-brained efforts by the British to resolve the deteriorating situation in Palestine, before they wisely gave up and announced that they were leaving. You can argue the motives, but you cannot dispute that Israel accepted the UN partition plan, and the Arab countries didn’t. But again, as I pointed out before, that plan became irrelevant once the surrounding Arab countries decided to try and rewrite the borders by force.
    .
    3. Menachem Begin was a political rival of Ben-Gurion. He was a leader of the political groups that eventually evolved into Likud, which were not in a position of national leadership until he became PM in 1977. Therefore, views he espoused 30 years earlier were not representative of Israel.
    .
    4. “…the borders drawn up by the UN are not null and void the moment one of the parties involved decides it is unhappy with the arrangement.” You do understand that you are undermining your own argument here, right? The 1949 armistice line borders are those recognized by the UN, not the 1947 partition plan which never took effect. The fact that you are not happy with them does not make them null and void either.
    .
    And if I’m not misunderstanding you, you praise the Arabs for adamantly refusing to compromise, while criticizing the Israelis for accepting it. Would you care to explain why you are so forgiving towards extremist Arab positions, while at the same time eager to disregard moderate Israeli positions?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Grueven~
    .
    Once again, we’re talking past one another. You’re selecting portions of what I say, not accounting for the context or my statements in the past.
    .
    Here it goes again. The world community did not accept Jerusalem as Israel’s capital initially because it was to be an internationally administered zone as per the 1947 UN Partition Plan. After Israel’s unilateral annexation of Jerusalem, the world community rejected Jerusalem as the capital of Israel because it was taken by military force. Now, while the UN and world community did recognize the armistice lines following the 1948 war, and consequently they acceded to the fact that Israel’s borders had expanded through military action, they did not accept Jerusalem as the nation’s capital in 1967 because it sent an offensive message to the Arabs. It was an incitement to accept an occupied city as the occupier’s capital. So, while at times, land was acquired by force and the world community came to accept these in certain areas, when dealing with the highly controversial Jerusalem and the concept of a capital city, the significance was much more important. The world community was, and is, right to refuse acknowledgment of the city as unilaterally Israeli.
    .
    The statement made by Ben-Gurion was simply one statement among many where he rejected the concept of a limited Israel. His position in 1938 was the same as it was in 1948 or any time thereafter: that Israel would not be limited to arbitrary internationally drawn borders. In his view, Israel had every right to expand into the whole of Palestine, especially Judea and Samaria. He was Israel’s first Prime Miniter and he carried in his rationale a profound contempt for national borders. As for Menachem Begin, though a rival of Ben-Gurion, he was a popular extremist, dare I say terrorist, in the early years of Israeli independence. His election to the office of Prime Minister speaks volumes as to the radicalism of political Zionism, especially in those days. His election says as much about the Israelis as Hamas’ election says about the Gaza Palestinians. More so actually, because the Israelis of the 1970s were considerably more well-off than the Palestinians of Gaza in 2005, they had no need to elect an extremist.
    ~
    I have said quite frequently, in fact, that I respect the 1949 armistice lines as they were made in agreement between soveriegn states involved in the war. This is not to say that I wholly disregard the partition plan, but you are correct that it is no longer binding. The armistice lines, however, are. And yet Israel violates them again, and again, and again. You could argue that the Palestinians do as well, except for the fact that they were not signatories to the ceasefire.
    ~
    Finally, I must again correct your assessment in your closing sentences. I do not “praise the Arabs for adamantly refusing to compromise, while criticizing the Israelis for accepting it.” I understand the Arab’s fervent resistance to partition because it was inherently unjust. Any partition would have been unjust, absent a natural Jewish majority that could never have been attained save for mass immigration in the millions, which, consequently would have also been unjust. You don’t partition lands away from a local populace to carve out a new state for immigrants. With that said, as the generations have passed and the Jewish inhabitants have become naturalized, the injustices of independence must be relegated to history, and replaced with a moral understanding of the realities of today, that is, the Jews of today’s Israel have a fundamental right to their state and to defend that state in a manner consistent with the laws of war and international humanitarian law.

  • greuven

    Exiled, while we clearly come from completely different perspectives, I think the last point you made is something we can agree on. What happened in the past cannot be changed; what happens now and in the future can. All parties involved should be encouraged to proceed towards an agreement that is fair and reasonable to both sides, and ends the historic injustice of the Palestinian people while preserving the security and identity of Israel. Any details like what Israel’s original motives were or whether the ’49 borders should be treated as sacred are immaterial to the main issues at hand.

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