Are Legal Challenges To Health Reform Credible?

A dispatch from our colleague Alex Altman:

Less than an hour after President Obama signed the health-care reform bill into law, attorneys general from 13 states filed a lawsuit challenging the bill’s constitutionality. Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, acting on behalf of 13 states, filed suit in U.S. District Court in Pensacola, alleging that the bill violated the constitution by forcing citizens to buy health insurance or face a tax penalty. McCollum and his co-plaintiffs plaintiffs – all but one of whom are Republicans – also charged that the sweeping overhaul infringed on the sovereignty of states and will cripple their ailing budgets. “The act represents an unprecedented encroachment on the liberty of individuals living in the plaintiffs’ respective states, by mandating that all citizens and legal residents of the United States have qualifying health care coverage or pay a tax penalty,” the plaintiffs charged. “The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate, either directly or under threat of penalty, that all citizens and legal residents have qualifying healthcare coverage.”

Several legal scholars have already argued that these challenges are unlikely to succeed. “I don’t think there are any really valid constitutional challenges to this legislation. I think Congress is acting within its constitutional powers, granted by Article I of the Constitution, in enacting this legislation,” Timothy Jost, a professor at Washington and Lee University School of Law, said during an interview with CSPAN. Jost is referring to what’s known as the Commerce Clause, which allows the Congress to regulate interstate commerce, and which would seem to insulate the bill from objections that its regulation of the insurance industry is unconstitutional.

In an article published Sunday in the Washington Post, however, Randy Barnett, a constitutional law professor, argued the individual mandate, which does not kick in until 2014, was taking Congress into uncharted territory. The individual mandate, Barnett argued, “extends the commerce clause’s power beyond economic activity, to economic inactivity. That is unprecedented. While Congress has used its taxing power to fund Social Security and Medicare, never before has it used its commerce power to mandate that an individual person engage in an economic transaction with a private company.” In a response on his blog, Jack Balkin of Yale Law School offered a rebuttal, arguing “Congress pretty clearly has the power to pass such a tax under its powers to tax and spend for the general welfare. This is an easy case for constitutionality.” Balkin adds: “Congress also has the power to require the individual mandate under the Commerce clause, despite Barnett’s objection. That is because Congress can regulate economic activities that have a cumulative economic effect on interstate commerce.”

But for the government, this is far from a slam dunk, says Jonathan Turley, a constitutional law professor at George Washington University. “If one was taking odds in Vegas, you’d have to give Congress the edge,” he told TIME. But Turley argues that characterizing the suit as frivolous understates the sweeping scope of the newly minted law and the degree to which the Supreme Court’s conservative wing may be alarmed at how the federal government has claimed powers the constitution’s framers’ arguably intended the states to possess. “Federalism guarantees states a fierce form of sovereignty,” he says, noting that four Supreme Court justices could certainly side with the states, leaving Justice Anthony Kennedy representing the pivotal swing vote.

Virginia and Idaho already have statutes blocking federal mandates from infringing on state laws, and Virginia AG Ken Cuccinelli filed his own legal challenge to the bill just minutes after Obama signed it during a jubilant celebration in the White House’s East Room. (Idaho was one of the 13 states banding together with Florida; the other 11 were Alabama, Colorado, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.) But after sweating out the politics of the health-care reform bill and enduring a tight vote, the Obama Administration doesn’t seem to be fretting about the bill’s legality. “Every single major piece of legislation that’s ever been passed in this country has engendered lawsuits. That’s the nature of our system,” senior adviser David Axelrod told Good Morning America. “We’re not concerned about these lawsuits.”

Related Topics: Congress, Democratic Party, Health Care, Republican Party, Supreme Court
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  • Paul-no not that one

    House Manager Bill McCollum?
    .
    Anyway I have been asking in this forum for months about the Constitutionality of the mandates, specific to directing dollars to private companies (as opposed to Medicare and Medicaid).
    .
    Happy to see this get heard, if only so I can understand better.

  • nflfoghorn

    “…Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, acting on behalf of 13 states, filed suit in U.S. District Court in Pensacola…”
    .
    He’s also running for governor. How independent.

  • jpt1964

    Will these Attorneys General plan to challenge mandatory automobile liability insurance? I mean, after all, isn’t it an infringement on my rights to be forced to comply with automobile insurance laws or face a penalty?

  • m0mentom0ri

    Not only him…
    .
    MI’s Mike Cox, PA’s Tom Corbett and SC’s Henry McMaster are all running for open GOV seats.
    .
    WA’s Rob McKenna, TX’s Greg Abbott , and CO’s John Suthers are widely seen as future candidates for other offices.
    .
    Mark Shurtleff (UT AG) running against Sen. Bennett (R-UT) in the GOP primary.

  • charlieromeobravo

    The difference there is that the automobile insurance laws were enacted at the state level. Every state has some sort of auto insurance requirement but the details vary from state to state as each is a different law. What they’re talking about above is the Federal Government infringing on states’ rights which is a different issue entirely.

  • apollyon07

    The challenge to the mandate is. If the Commerce Clause can be used to force you to buy insurance just for being an American citizen, then it can be used to force you to buy anything.

  • stuartzechman

    Adam Sorensen:
    .
    Are Legal Challenges To Health Reform Credible?
    .
    I didn’t catch the answer to that.
    .
    Was that a “yes”, or was that a “no”?
    .
    Will this legal challenge likely be tossed out of court on the very first motion by a visibly annoyed judge, or will it likely make its way to a divided SCOTUS ruling?

  • apollyon07

    jpt, that frequently made comparison is inaccurate. No one is forced to buy auto insurance. You are forced to buy it if you CHOOSE to drive a car. No one has the right to drive a car, it’s a privilege. Big difference.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    The mandates do have legitimate issues. It would be a mistake to dismiss these lawsuits as simply in keeping with the traditional response to landmark social legislation. The interstate commerce clause is probably not relevant here, because rather than Congress regulating, it is essentially compelling people into an economic activity. That’s an important distinction worth examing. Furthermore, the general welfare clause is equally problematic given the privatized nature of the industry and the actual imposition of fines, rather than mere tax hikes. It should be interesting, indeed.

  • hellslittlestangel

    No one is required to buy insurance from a private company, but those who don’t will have to pay a tax.
    .
    Dubious? I don’t know if there are five SC justices foolish enough to throw the country into turmoil by overturning it.
    .
    Of course, the real, pro nutjobs think Federal taxes are unconstitutional.

  • http://flounder73.wordpress.com pafro

    Can someone with a little access start asking these clowns if they think that federally-mandated tort reform is constitutional?
    _
    The Republicans plan for federally mandated caps on damages would take tort law out of state hands despite something like 200 laws of case law establishing that this is a realm of state control.
    _
    I can’t see how someone can claim the insurance mandate is unconstitutional while claiming at the same time that federalization of tort law somehow is.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Might I add, there is an inherent difference between mandated auto insurance and mandated health-insurance. Of course, the enactment at the state level and federal level is an important legal distinction it itself, but, what’s more, the health-insurance mandate is a blanket mandate on all citizens. The auto insurance mandate is a regulation imposed on an individual who wishes to partake in the privilege of obtaining a driver’s license.

  • nflfoghorn

    Oh great. Demagogue the issue and pretend that you’re righting a wrong, simply to gain a higher office by revving up the base. Knowing full well that the ostensible attempt to prevent the law from happening will take years to go thru the courts and will most likely be thrown out.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    SZ~
    I think you’ve overstepped the boundaries of reasonable expectations in your media critique. Generally, I agree with you wholeheartedly. When presenting a situation, for example, where the two parties are exhorting on the content of a bill, and the journalist ponders what’s actually in the bill, providing both parties’ agruments, but failing to actually report on the content of the bill itself, then that warrants your full criticism. When dealing with the constitutionality of the content of a bill, though, there can be no reasonable expectation of a journalist providing the answer. It’s entirely up to jurisprudential interpretations. No one, Stuart, can answer the question in absolute terms. It’s a matter that will require adjudication in the courts, even if simply to dismiss the lawsuit.

  • alexaltman

    Hi Stuart,

    I wrote the post and can respond to your question. (Adam did the favor of posting for me while I get WordPress up and running.) I cannot, however, give a binary answer.

    Most experts appear to think the commerce and supremacy clauses are strong justification for constitutionality of the bill. Precedent supports Congress in this case. A couple of scholars (Barnett of Georgetown, Turley of GW) have raised questions, though, about whether aspects of this are beyond precedent, and if so, whether a particular judge will view the sweep of the legislation as a threat to federalism. So is it likely to succeed? I’m no expert here, and scholars seem to think it probably won’t — but that doesn’t mean the challenge should be summarily dismissed as political gamesmanship, either.

  • shepherdwong

    “…the Constitutionality of the mandates, specific to directing dollars to private companies (as opposed to Medicare and Medicaid).”
    .
    Medicare dollars do go directly to private companies after being collected by government through a tax. Government is merely the administrator dispersing the money to private, for-profit health care providers.

  • square1

    There are three questions with regard to the individual mandate, two legal and one normative:

    1. May the federal government mandate that all legal residents of the U.S. purchase a product or service from private entities?

    I agree with Exiled that this is a complicated question. I am frankly a little contemptuous of so-called Constitutional scholars who would say it is an “easy case”. Really? It is a slam dunk that Thomas, Scalia, Alito, Roberts, and 1 more Justice won’t stick it to the Dems for pure spite, leaving aside the legitimate legal arguments?

    IMHO, although I have not seen this analysis much, the problem isn’t the explicit tax. It is that insurance premiums — mandated by the government — are a de facto tax and Congress has unconstitutionally delegated the power to levy taxes to private companies.

    2. May the federal government impose a tax on those who do not purchase health insurance?

    This part I don’t have a problem with, although I don’t think it is a “slam dunk” legally.

    3. Even if it is legal, Is it a good idea to allow the federal government the power to compel Americans to buy products from private entities?

    No.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    Welcome, Alex!
    I take it you’ll become a real poster soon?
    Responding like this is the single biggest thing you can do to win fans around here.
    And it shouldn’t take much poking around to figure out who you need to take seriously when you’re considering a response. Caps lock is a good first-pass filter, for instance.

  • Ivy_B

    Of course none of this would be necessary if the Repubs had not fought tooth and nail to prevent something like a Medicare for all plan.

    As a PA resident, I would like to know how much the suit is going to cost me. PA cut access to electronic databases for libraries by 75% last year and cut funds to the State Library by 50% which means the library is only open three days a week. As a candidate for Governor, Corbett has been using his office for political gains, but this may be over the top.

  • FlownOver

    My Con Law prof used to ask this: “Did the Court rule that way because the law was unconstitutional, or was the law unconstitutional because the Court ruled that way?” Absent the untimely passing of Justice RobertsAlitoScaliaThomasKennedy, damn near anything could happen.

    No point worrying about it in the meantime, though – we’ll see in due course whether the Five Ringwraiths have the gall to take away popular benefits and turn the Supreme Court into more of a political issue than it’s ever been.

  • stuartzechman

    neorationalist86:
    .
    I don’t think that I’m asking Sorensen to step in and adjudicate or produce a ruling, I’m asking whether or not a challenge is credible.
    .
    The question of credibility is completely different than that of being decided one way or another.
    .
    I’m not suggesting that Sorensen supply a measure of constitutionality, I’m asking whether the suit is credible, i.e. not likely to be thrown out upon first motion, i.e. not obviously frivolous.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Government is merely the administrator dispersing the money to private, for-profit health care providers.”
    .
    I’m aware of that. But that is a distinction. Administrating is more than just handing one dollar from me to you.
    .
    Again, I look forward to the challenges because I don’t know.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks for responding.
    .
    I’m not asking whether or not the challenge is likely to succeed, I’m asking whether or not the challengers have a case.
    .
    I’m asking whether or not this is a frivolous lawsuit, which is what I understand “credible” to mean in this context.
    .
    You’ve effectively answered that by saying “that doesn’t mean the challenge should be summarily dismissed as political gamesmanship,” so thank you.
    .
    I’d also like to know what Adam Sorensen’s sources tell him is the answer to the question that he, himself raised.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Hello Alex,
    Thanks for engaging here. It’s very much appreciated, most especially for Staurt Zechman, whose tireless pursuit of journalist engagement has paid dividends for the rest of us Swamplanders.
    .
    I have an additional question. Are these lawsuits aimed at overturning the bill in its entirety, or are they limited to the personal mandate clause? That’s a very important difference that may play a vital role in the level of support, both publicly and jurisprudentially, the lawsuit garners.

  • shepherdwong

    It is a distinction but, perhaps, without any practical difference. Either way, you’re being taxed to provide for health care you (and everyone else) will receive from the system. As far as the legal question, having witnessed the purely political legal malpractice from Bush v. Gore forward, from the highest-placed legal minds in the country, I’m not at all sure we have a functional federal judiciary that’s in any position to judge. Fire all the Regent graduates and Federalist Society hacks and then get back to me.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    FO~

    …we’ll see in due course whether the Five Ringwraiths have the gall to take away popular benefits and turn the Supreme Court into more of a political issue than it’s ever been.

    I wonder. Is it beyond plausible that the personal mandate is in violation of the US Constitution? Could it be possible that the personal mandate -not the entire bill- is not a popular benefit, nor Constitutional? Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that a clear case can be laid out that suggests the mandate violates the Constitution. Wouldn’t those justices voting to dismiss the lawsuit be politicizing the issue, essentially deferring to Congress and the President, rather than applying constitutional law?

  • sevenoaks07

    Let’s not get drawn in to another post which may drive traffic but which is lacking in information. The case will have to be pursued through the courts and we will be wise to avoid wasting time giving the Republicans another bogus issue. The case will be argued and take a couple of years before it reaches a stage at which we need to look at it. Meanwhile let us stress the 5 things that will immediately benefit those without insurance. Those who stand to benefit need the information. Worrying about law suits plays into the Republican Obfuscation Playbook.

  • http://firstfarmandweatherreport.blogspot.com/ maxwelldog

    not entirely inaccurate.
    If the states in each instance can demand a thing, why not the fed?
    Whether right, privilege or want, moxnix. It will work if everyone does it, it won’t work if some whiners figure some loophole out of it (I’m too rich to need healthcare”….and that sort of shtuff.
    And the other way out would be secession…which I think only Texas has a right to do. But, dang. Talk about a way those states could react to the healthcare issue…yeah baby.
    C’mon in, Daniels….the water is boiling and waiting for you.

  • nflfoghorn

    Three years into the future: Nobody said there had to be only NINE SC justices!

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    I think it wouldn’t be unconstitutional to levy a new tax and exempt people from it who are either poor or have obtained Health Insurance (and you could justify it by saying that those without Health Insurance, when they get sick, cost the government money when they demonstrate that they are unable to pay for their health care costs). If this is true, would inverting it and having the equivalent behavior of levying the tax only when the behavior is not undertaken it is taxed (so, instead of rewarding good behavior, you punish bad) be so different as to be unconstitutional?

  • Ivy_B

    McCain just said on All Things Considered that We will challenge this in the courts, we will challenge this in the (he stumbled slightly then said) towns, we will challenge this in the cities, we will challenge this on the farms. The will of the people will be heard!

    Guess we won’t have to worry about the years these court cases will take – the ol’ Straight Talk Express is on the road again and doin’ the job.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Hey, if they successfully repeal, can we complain about activist judges?

  • Ivy_B

    More comment from a variety of legal scholars in the NYT today,

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/23/health/policy/23legal.html?ref=politics

  • stuartzechman

    You know, Alex Altman, I just reread my commentary, and it seems insufficiently gracious to me.
    .
    I really need to get across to you how pleased and grateful I am that you have engaged with commentary here.
    .
    These sorts of clarifying interactions with commentary are very, very helpful to us news users, so I’d just like to reiterate (in a more focused way) thank you so much for responding.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    FO, is that priceless description, “Five Ringwraiths,” an original? Regardless, a thing of beauty. I await the CG rendition.

  • FlownOver

    My point is that all the current hand-wringing is a waste of time, breath and electrons. A majority of the Court will decide whether the mandate – or the entire reform, or any other part of it – is constitutional. Absolutist claims in the meantime are a fifty-fifty proposition serving only to fan the flames of division.
    .
    I can’t see a very practical way to carve the mandate out of the reform, as without it the balance of the reform is economically untenable. The result of striking down the mandate likely will be either an acquiescent return to the status quo ante or enactment of single payer in response – unless the Court goes so far as to hold Medicare unconstitutional, and with the current Court, that’s a maybe.
    .
    It’s not that the Court will politicize the law, but that a sufficiently reactionary Court will apply its view of the law so as to magnify the importance as a political issue of the President’s power of appointment.

  • FlownOver

    Thanks, jcapan – it could be an instance of unconscious plagiarism à la “My Sweet Lord,” but I don’t recall having heard it before. If it is in fact a FlownOver original, I hereby cede it to the public domain.

  • dwilde1

    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
    .
    That said, the corruption of both sides of the aisle has rendered the Constitution toilet paper, not that that makes it any less valid. What is true is that nobody (except the aforementioned few (?) angry patriots and Glenn Beck droolers and Libertarians) seems to give a damn any more.

  • newfreedomblog

    The individual mandate, Barnett argued, “extends the commerce clause’s power beyond economic activity, to economic inactivity. That is unprecedented”.

    .
    What part of unprecedented do you nutballs not understand? What part of the Constitution do you think the Commerce Clause was written for? Activity? or Inactivity?
    .
    To make it very simple and plain for those who have completely lost every last rational brain cell, it is as follows; At NO time in our Government’s history has there been a law which required me to BUY a good or service.
    .
    It shouldn’t be hard to find a precedent which is the same. Show me the precedent that will give the Supreme Court Justices the leg to stand on to strike this lawsuit down. You can’t. There isn’t any precedent. But, letting it stand WILL be a precedent. A precedent that opens up pandora’s box of evil tricks. But, that is what Democrats, that is what Liberals want, that <IS what SOCIALISTS / MARXIST want. They want to take your individual rights and rip them to shreads. It is the only way that their system of Government will work. A system of Government that they naively say is “neo-Socialism/Capitalism”. “Just like China”.
    .
    What part of losing your freedom to this insane law doesn’t make sense to you? Do you want to give up your freedom to chose? Do you want the Government to tell you what you can and cannot buy? It really is that simple.
    .
    The other complicated part is, what happens if the “mandate” is struck down by the Court? How will the liberals now pay for this boon-doggle of an entitlement? Raise taxes more? Cut 31 Million down to 5 Million?
    .
    If this is struck down, I am confident that will be when the Government then brings single-payer to the table. That is when Government will finish the job on healthcare to “spread the wealth”. Take from those who have and give to those who do not. That is the new Social Justice mantra of the Democratic Party.

  • shepherdwong

    “…that doesn’t mean the challenge should be summarily dismissed as political gamesmanship, either.”
    .
    It should, even if it has legal merit, because the purpose – to prevent a political win for Democrats – is entirely political. Unless you believe that Republicans believe their own hysterical rhetoric about HCR “socialist takeovers” and “destroying the country” (the rest of us know that they’re lying).

  • newfreedomblog

    Are you another liberal shill, alexaltman? Another insider for SEIU? ACORN? I just like to know, because I will simply bypass your posts if so.

  • anon76

    I think the auto insurance laws are state-based, not federal, so you won’t see many attorney generals going to federal courts to challenge the auto insurance laws.

    I think the better argument is that by federal law (the EMTALA) we are all required to pay, through our federal taxes, for the care of those in the emergency room who couldn’t otherwise pay. There’s already a federal precedent for requiring payment for healthcare, the question is who bears the burden of payment (the person receiving the care or taxpayers) and who gets paid (the doctor/hospital, or private insurance companies).

  • anon76

    Take cover, FO. Christopher Tolkien is calling in his Ringwraiths, er, lawyers. They’re even nastier than Scalia.

  • colleenshea

    http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Defenders_of_State_Sovereignty_and_Individual_Liberties

    The lawsuits don’t have much of a chance in hell…just like the group in Virginia in 1953, the “Defenders of State Sovereignty and Individual Liberties”. What a joke and a sad piece of history!

  • xxception

    Are you are aware Medicaid has a higher service refusal rate than private insurance and a MUCH higher fraud rate? Does either of these things matter?

  • seafish75

    As we all know we are required to have auto insurance to protect other people. Plus we can buy car insurance from and insurance company.

    To buy health insurance we can only buy only from the compaines that the state allows us to. that means if you live in Texas like i do we have to buy from the compainies that Tx allows even if we can buy from another company in another state that is cheaper.
    How does this fit into interstate commerice law??

    Maybe the idots in washington should listen to the people and 1. Open all insurance country wide like car insurance 2. Add torte reform like they did in Mississippi. this would reduce price and increase competition. 3. Open more 24hr clients so the people would not have to go the em room

    It seems now that their are going to force the states to do this instead.

    one last thing who is going to pay for the illegal immigrants medicla bill?????

  • kevin

    I can understand why these guys might think this is a winning political issue for their campaigns, but this can only hurt them.
    .
    It makes them look petty, it wraps them firmly in the “party of no” image, and weds them closely to the incredibly unpopular Republicans in Congress.
    .
    On another note, all of these Republicans waging these lawsuits to overturn Congress’s actions now forfeit the right to complain about “activist judges” forever.

  • kevin

    Is there some kind of list that the rest of us can sign up for, Rusty, so you’ll bypass our posts, too?

  • kevin

    No. When judges rule in Republicans’ favor, it doesn’t count.
    .
    See, for instance, Bush v. Gore.

  • ptaray

    Wow, now maybe some can see why the best option would have been an “opt in” universal care or spme form of public option, as it was first intended. Then the constitutionality issue would not be an issue at all.
    Funny how the watered down and full of suckup ideas was forced to pass with a year of national hate and really bad lies distorting the facts from all sides, and now the same folks who wanted Americans to go broke, pay for extreme raises in insurance are the same folks who are going to fight to take away the first shot at reform in a century that got passed. and many of the very things they asked for are in this bill and many good ideas that should have been in it are not.
    The GOP and other supporting party sympathizers could have been part of a great change and help for millions of Americans, now they are going to politcally grandstand for election, re-election while taking from many Americans the needed health care.
    The mandate while scary for some is a result of the pretend concerns for fiscal conservatives to keep the costs covered. an opt in was the easy answer, but some folks had to make this adminisrtation look bad.
    they gambled with Americans health and lives, they lost the gamble, now time to cry foul and use the usual hypocrisy and cover of constitutional smoke screens to get votes… how sad. maybe if you don’t use any health services for a year you can get a tax refund or credit for thr next tax year.. seems pretty simple to me. But what if you pay nothing and go to the hospital… then we pay for you.. isn’t that the reason so many conservatives wanted reform in the first place???

    just a thought

  • apr2563

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
    Please read above.
    .
    Mandatory purchase:
    >FICA deducted from paycheck for SS and Medicare (the commodity)
    >Not optional
    >Biggest Federal government sponsored ins. programs
    >Also, there are mandatory contributions by employers
    >Another mandatory, but indirect tax, Unemployment Ins
    .
    Seems to me if we deem the new mandatory insurance unconstitutional, we will have to do away with Medicare, SS, and Unemployment Ins.
    Now I know this would make many Reps happy but not so much their constituents.

  • apollyon07

    Guys. It’s a moot point. You do not have to buy auto insurance because you do not have to drive a car. This is different because this mandate isn’t attached to something that you choose to do (like driving a car). It in effect is making you purchase something because you are an American citizen. People use the auto insurance comparison with gun control too and it doesn’t work there either (again, privilege vs. rights).

  • apr2563

    apollyon please read post #20 that outlines all of the mandatory insurance you and you employer have to buy.

  • newfreedomblog

    Well it would be a good argument based on past events. But please explain to me how you can confuse a Government Program; ie: Medicaid and Medicare with a Private Company Insurance?
    .
    This is where your “opinion”, and that of fivethirtyeight as well, fails.
    .
    It still remains unprecedented that the Government has never, I repeat NEVER “mandated” 100% of all citizens buy a commodity from a private source. Therefore using the commerce clause to justify this new law is unconstitutional.
    .
    It all goes back to the argument of how much government power the Federal Govt has over us. How much it affects States Rights and Individual Rights. As long as the Attorneys General remain focused on those rights, they will in my opinion sway the necessary votes on the Supreme Court.
    .
    The other issue is how this Administration is using the IRS in order to confuse the subject and debate by setting up the IRS to “police” their mandate. This again is questionable as to how far the Federal Government is allowed to tax or penalize it’s citizens. What is next? When has the Government been able to tax someone for something that they have not purchased, used or are even thinking about using? If I do not own something, how do you tax me for it? Where is the basis for the tax? How do you determine the worth of nothing in order to set up the basis for the percent of tax you owe? Seems to me that if I do not own something, the value is 0. The tax on 0 is 0.
    .
    That is why this is one big game of power and control. It isn’t about helping people. It isn’t about insuring 31 million uninsured people. It is about power, money and more control. The more they get, the more powerful they become. The more they control the individual the more the individual becomes dependent upon them. The cycle goes on and on.

  • vintel7

    These are simply more games by the sore loser Republicans…who suffered a major major loss. Republicans made several huge mistakes. They underestimated President Obama and Speaker Pelosi. They bet their cards that Americans were against Health Care reform. They beleived their own lies and propaganda. All along Americans wanted Health Care (65%). All along, 53-58% still support President Obama. The republicans contributed nothing to reform. The party of NO…did what they always do NOTHING. They started beleiving the lies of people like Beck, Palin, Limbaugh, Coburn, and all the other right wing idiots. These lawsuits don’t amount to a pile of beans and they know it. Soon you will see these suits dropped and the rhetoric calm down as more and more Americans see the truth concerning what The President has accomplished. That this is a good plan that insures 32 million Americans, provides tax breaks to small business who provide insurance for their employees, and prevents Health Insurance companies from refusing coverage for pre-existing conditions. Who in their right mind is going to publically fight these incredible benefits of President Obama’s Health Care Reform? Republicans will be made to pay dearly again at the polls for their heartlessness and stupidity.

  • http://jastone81.wordpress.com jastone81

    Kevin
    “It makes them look petty, it wraps them firmly in the “party of no” image, and weds them closely to the incredibly unpopular Republicans in Congress.”
    .

    “On another note, all of these Republicans waging these lawsuits to overturn Congress’s actions now forfeit the right to complain about “activist judges” forever.”
    .

    .
    Incredibly unpopular? What is going to happen now that 68% of Americans are saying they were misrepresented, or lost representation alltogether? The fact that many Democrats went directly against what their constituants wanted, may not hold up so well when the elections roll around. The “people” put them there and will surely take a large stand when the time comes. I look for the next elections to have a very, very large turnout.

  • truthinsf

    The modern liberal is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for theft.

  • trickylugnuts

    The comparisons to auto insurance seem completely off the wall – you can simply not drive and save the expense.

    Another thing, this is not a “blanket” mandate to buy adequate health insurance. I believe that certain religious groups are exempted in the legislation as well as Native Americans. So much for treating all citizens equally, I guess.

    Personally, the legislation would seem much more appealing to me without the individual mandate – that seems like a bone the Democrats threw to their insurance buddies so they wouldn’t lose too much money on this thing and quit donating to their campaigns.

    BY ALL MEANS CHALLENGE THIS THING’S CONSTITUTIONALITY. THAT IS WHAT THESE COURTS ARE FOR. While the GOP is at it, maybe they could challenge the constitutionality of ongoing military actions in Pakistan and Iraq without a declaration of war or all the warrant-less eavesdropping and spying that’s been going on – oh, wait, don’t want to go that far.

    The thing I don’t understand: is this mandate going to be enforced through income tax returns? If you go without adequate health insurance coverage for a month, or for a week, or even a day in a given year, is your fine pro-rated?

    And, frankly, of the “45 million uninsured” that this bill aims to extend coverage to, how many of those people even file annual tax returns? In this day and age I would suspect there are at least 10 million indigents out there. I think the CBO’s projections that 32 million will “buy” coverage, subsidized or not, are rosy, especially if the feds have no way of enforcing the mandate if they don’t file a tax return.

    Sorry the post is so long!

  • alan5073

    Here’s the key difference between the health insurance mandate and every other government tax and fee.

    Right now, if someone gets tired of it all, they can hike out into the woods and live their life in peace, and owe taxes to no one. All taxes are based on some sort of activity or ownership of some type of property.

    But with the health care mandate, even a hermit living on the top of some godforsaken mountain will end up breaking the law and owing thousands if he doesn’t give the goverment what it asks for just to leave him alone. It’s a tax on doing nothing.

    Oh by the way, for those of a conspiratorial bent, this gives the government an excuse to keep track of every single American, and IRS will be hiring 16,000 more agents to do it. So much for going off the grid and getting lost.

  • sonatasun

    Actually, jpt, you are correct. Forget that driving is a privilege–it’s a necessity. Most of us would be reduced to poverty without it, especially in southern cities where mass transit is–not!

    My state requires insurance to drive. My employer requires me to drive. The conclusion is, the state compels me to buy insurance–or face poverty or incarceration.

    Now about this state rights thing. The Federal government compels me to pay taxes. It compelled me to stand the Vietnam war draft. It certainly can encourage me to buy health insurance.

    Federalism is where two or more sovereign’s may enact laws affecting their citizens. The health care bill in no way interferes with the state’s right to exercise its sovereignty.

  • jensuwe

    Can this be discussed without partisan comments? I have a simple question: what would stop the government from making this economic decision (huge savings in health care costs would be the rationale): fine everyone $ 100 per pound they weigh over and above the “ideal weight” as specified by some sort of AMA criterion? One can make many of the same arguments others have made in support of the just passed Health Care Reform. If that is so, what sort of society would that leave us in?

  • pcoppney

    There is a difference between healt care reform and what was passed. It is unfortunate this is so often missed.

    What passed was not supported by the majority, it was accomplished by illegal means and is likely to be overturned. Note there is a Democrat Attorney General in the suit, which by the definition of our president makes it bipartisan. Something his bill failed to accomplish.

  • pcoppney

    Tort reform would be the federal government over turning a STATE law. A state is not a person. Health care deform infringes on a PERSON’s rights.

  • gorasaab

    According to Article I, Section 7 of the United States Constitution: ” All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.” In the case of Flast v. Cohen, 392 U.S, 83 (1968) the Supreme Court stated that Taxpayers had standing to challange unconstitutional acts of Congress related to Article I, Section 8′s taxing and spending powers provided the taxpayer could demonstrate that the Congressional act in question violate a specific constitutional limitation placed on Congress. In Flast the limitation dealth with the establishment clause of the First Amendment. The Court held at pp. 101-102: “we believe a taxpayer will have a clear stake as a taxpayer in assuring that they are not breached by Congress. Consequently, we hold that a taxpayer will have standing consistent with Article III to invoke federal judicial power when he alleges that congressional action under the taxing and spending clause is in derogation of those constitutional provisions which operate to restrict the exercise of the taxing and spending power. ”

    I urge citizens of each and every United States judicial district to file taxpayer lawsuits to have the perversion of our hallowed Constitution principles rectified by having this clearly unconstitutional “Bill” that originated in the Senate to be declared unconstitutional by the federal judiciary.

    In my opinion the five corrupt Catholics on the Supreme Court will hold that the actions of the Democrats in the House passing the Senate version of Obamacare will hold the passage unconstitutional. Shame on Pelosi, Alcee Hastings9 the thug that was impeached as a U.S. District Judge) and others from deliberately violating Article I, Section 7′s very first sentence.

  • pcoppney

    You watch too much television.

    Perhaps you should read the constitution before deciding the Supreme Court is worthless.

  • pcoppney

    Obfuscation is a tactic of Mr. Alinsky, and Obama has mastered it. Get more kool-aide.

  • pcoppney

    Weight is not the only indicator of health.

  • pcoppney

    If in fact certain religious groups are exempt then there is certainly a constitutional issue. Unless the separation of church and state has also be thrown out.

  • jensuwe

    pcoppney – just an example: do you think it would be ok for the government to implement something like that?

  • pc93
  • http://cqlucinda.wordpress.com cqlucinda

    Again….just a “correction” here,–> as this “penalty” for non compliance is Not a “tax”…if they had gone straight ahead and said that indeed it was a healthcare “tax” they would have more legality to this bill….there will be penalties for the non-payment of a non-tax for a non-service….these penalties include going to jail….So far the IRS does not have the authority to penalize people for the non payment of a non-tax…..This will not stand and is indeed unconstitutional.

  • tonykapp

    I’m curious. Since insurance is regulated on a state by state basis, does this mean its intrastate commerce and not interstate commerce? One could argue that all of the state imposed requirements for insurance are unique and don’t translate across state lines as interstate commerce. What say you all?

  • 1krh

    sonatason,
    False. Millions of Americans either choose not to drive or can’t for some reason.
    Saying driving is necessary is ridiculous. I know many people who don’t own a car specifically because they can’t afford to buy insurance.
    But since we are on that idea…this is more like requiring every American to own a car, whether they drive or not, and penalizing them if they don’t. The only real beneficiaries here are the car dealerships (insurance companies).
    It doesn’t make for lower costs, it doesn’t make for better health care. It just means that the insurance companies now have a hammer to force those of us who can’t afford insurance and who rarely have need for it to pay insane monthly premiums and deductibles rather than simply paying for services as we need them. I no longer pay almost $7000 per year for insurance – I pay about $300 for the services I need. Why should I be required to pay more for the privilege of living where I already pay medicare and social security taxes?

  • neomisct

    Why stop at taxing fat people for being overweight. We can tax nearsighted people because glasses cost extra and they’re more prone to accidents, right? How about poor people obviously they live in squalid conditions that contribute to health issues, and their diets can’t be too healthy. How about a small fee for every preexisting condition, and a maintenance fee for every ongoing condition. Got a bunion, that’ll be an extra nickel. Swimmer’s ear that’ll be a dime.

    The problem with this bill was that it was ill conceived and poorly unethically executed. Instead of identifying the root cause of the problem (frivolous lawsuits, hospital costs, administration fees, etc.), they chose instead to throw money at the problem at the expense of the taxpayers. Throwing money has never solved anything.

    Problem: banks are failing
    Solution: Throw money at banks to stop recession.
    Result: Banks still failing, homeowners losing homes, massive unemployment.

    Throwing good money after bad is what politicians often do. They make laws they don’t structure things to succeed. They build things on shaky foundations knowing they don’t have the support to succeed so they will look good just in time for elections. They just hope that it will all come crashing down at the beginning of their term so people will forget before the next election.

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