Health Reform’s Incredible Significance And Why It Won’t Matter Much In November

Even after a weekend of hyperbole from Democrats and Republicans on what the passage of health care legislation will mean for America, it is hard to overstate the bill’s political and policy implications.

President Obama largely got the bill he wanted — a tempered compromise between the wings of his party that alters the existing system without razing it. He sees this legislation as a significant step toward his ultimate goal: reestablishing government as a responsible partner — and, at times, steward — of the private sector, as well as providing for Americans who are unable to provide for themselves. It is the largest piece of social welfare legislation passed since the Great Society, and this president, speaker and congress will be enshrined as champions in the history books of the Democratic party for getting it through.

The unprecedented partisanship of Sunday’s vote — not a single Republican voted for the landmark legislation — will likely spark a long debate on the role of the minority in our government. On this particular issue, the Democratic vision proved incompatible with the Republican one. Monolithic, emotional opposition from the right was more about what the bill represented to them — a fundamental shift away from Reagan’s exhortation that “government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem”– than an inability to accept what in reality are fairly moderate and uncontroversial policies. Obama, despite campaigning under the banner of post-partisanship, has a traditionally liberal view of governance; he just prefers to seek common ground and strike a conciliatory tone in his pursuit.

Health reform is contentious not only because of its human element, but because both sides see it as a symbolic foot in the door, a crucial first step toward polarized ideals of government’s role. The decades-long debate to come over the merits of this policy will be framed in these terms. Republicans will blame the bill for ballooning the health care inflation and entitlement spending it is designed to soften, but can do little to overcome alone. Democrats will fiercely defend the entire package, even if some elements prove ineffective.

And then there are the real world changes: 31 million Americans will be added to the health insurance rolls, expanding the risk pool and altering the business model of the industry; billions of federal dollars will be deployed to purchase portions of that coverage and expand Medicaid eligibility; and an unprecedented level of new taxes and regulations will be levied on companies of all sorts in the medical field. What all this means to each party, each individual, is hard to say, but we know this much: It’s big.

All that being said, I think health care’s political implications for this November have been overstated. Democrats will lose seats; such is the nature of this cycle. Repeal is not a realistic platform for Republicans — Obama’s veto pen isn’t going anywhere and the political wisdom of such a push is questionable at best. Passage will rally the bases, provide ample red meat for the trail and may narrow the enthusiasm gap for Democrats, but I don’t see it sparking a lopsided groundswell or changing many undecided minds. Those on the left like it, those on the right don’t. Democrats will have some concrete deliverables (no preexisting condition discrimination for children, etc.) but I suspect that they will fit into a larger theme of accomplishment and reform, not serve as a platform centerpiece.

The narrow section of true independents feel neither euphoria nor horror over health reform. People’s anger that “government is broken” isn’t about health care, it stems from economic insecurity. If the midterms are to be a referendum on any one issue, it will be stewardship of the economy. And if the Democrats must choose one cause to highlight, financial reform, if passed, has the potential to be a far more potent weapon against obstinate Republicans than health care ever could.

The gravity of this moment is undeniable, but health reform won’t be the pivotal issue this fall.

Related Topics: Barack Obama, Congress, Democratic Party, Health Care
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  • pneogy

    “Even after a weekend of hyperbole from Democrats and Republicans on what the passage of health care legislation will mean for America, it is still hard to overstate the legislation’s political and policy implications.”

    Huh?

  • mycophile

    i see it that way, too

    I’d like to see the message be repeated over and over that it was under Reagan that we became a debtor nation, a pathway that has led us to the mess we are in today, and thus there is something fundementally flawed with Reaganism

  • afguy

    Guess EVERYONE gets to get in on the hyperbole action?

  • deconstructiva

    Adam, don’t forget the huge change of finally putting the brakes on pre-existings. Watch smart D’s pick on R’s for wanting to bring them back by rolling back the new laws. But kudos on mentioning finance reform. I hope all of you + Curious Cap. blog reporters will team up here. Financial failures caused this recession and that hit everyone, even if HC recessions / pre-existing did not (but it hit enough, incl. KT’s brother).
    .
    During finance reform, I’ve said before it’ll be amusing to watch R’s try to defend Wall St. But wait, there’s more: tea party anger goes all over the map and this includes rage against financial corruption, both upon Congress and within Wall St. firms themselves (bonuses, Fed bailouts). Since R’s are in bed with financial firms in post-coital bliss closely tied to financial firms, will they face tea party wrath too?

  • destor23

    “Those on the left like it, those on the right don’t.”

    I understand not every written statement can be entirely exact but “those on the left” don’t really love this bill. Those of us on the left think it’s too little. We may have, in the end, wanted to see it pass in order to protect the president but it is not a bill that people on the left are likely to be pleased by, nor is it a bill that was written to please lefties.

    It is a centrist bill by any definition of the word. You could even say, since a public option is within the realm of mainstream opinion and this plan lacks that, that it’s a right of center bill.

  • sacoharry

    I keep seeing Reagan’s quote bandied around, as though he were proclaiming something for the ages. He wasn’t. The full quote is: “In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem.” He was talking pointedly & directly about the malaise of stagflation from the late 70s, a situation that hasn’t been repeated since, under either party. Yet over & over & over, journalists cut off the first part of the sentence.

    Some would see the shortened version as Reagan’s personal philosophy. But unless he ever said the shortened version, then taking the long version, cutting a bit off, and putting it into his mouth as a general philosophy is wrong. Doing it unintentionally is bad journalism. Doing it intentionally is a lie of omission.

  • rose83

    Both the Republicans and the Democrats want to fight the midterms on health care. The Republicans in particular have little choice: their base of support is narrow, so they need it to be highly motivated. And demonizing this plan as a communist takeover of their health care will generate more of that strange mixture of fear and enthusiasm that fuels them than a campaign to save Wall Street bonuses.

    The narrow section of true independents feel neither euphoria nor horror over health reform.

    But midterm elections are even more about turnout and less about swing voters than Presidential election cycles.

  • Joe Bftsplk

    Ah. Sorta like “A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,…”

  • http://flounder73.wordpress.com pafro

    [F]inancial reform, if passed, has the potential to be a far more potent weapon against obstinate Republicans than health care ever could.

    Financial reform, if not passed, has the potential to be a really potent weapon. Imagine writing such a storng bill that only 50 or so Senate Democrats support it; that doesn’t have to pass muster with corrupt and soul crushing fake Democrats like Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman.
    _
    Putting such a bill up as the hill where the fight over “up or down vote” occurs would really illustrate for the American people who with them and who is with the banks and Wall Street.

  • bobcn1

    ‘Obama, despite campaigning under the banner of post-partisanship, has a traditionally liberal view of governance…’

    Adam,
    This statement indicates that you don’t understand the meaning of ‘post-partisan’. Being ‘post-partisan’ does not mean someone’s non-ideological. It merely means adherence to a technique for resolving disputes between opposing factions and parties (which, given the republican intransigence, has failed).

    There’s no conflict between being a liberal (or moderate, conservative, libertarian, etc.) and being post-partisan at all.

  • stuartzechman

    Rose:
    .
    Interesting point.
    .
    Don’t they run the risk of losing credibility when the dictatorship of the proletariat doesn’t materialize, though?
    .
    Isn’t the Republican leadership going to face “Well, Congressman, where’s the socialist takeover?” questions prior to November, in which they’ll have to walk back those claims or be ridiculed by the press corps, at which point they’ll be open to screams of betrayal by the non-reality-based base?
    .
    Can’t the Democratic leadership basically run the midterms on a message of “Look, the sky isn’t falling!,” and be proven completely correct (about that, at least)?

  • stuartzechman

    Adam Sorensen:

    Obama, despite campaigning under the banner of post-partisanship, has a traditionally liberal view of governance…

    This is inaccurate.
    .
    Obama is a New Democrat, as he remarked to his fellow New Democrats last year upon reaching the White House ( link to New Democrats Wikipedia entry ):


    In March 2009, Obama told a White House gathering of 65 members of the New Democrat Coalition that he is a “New Democrat.”[15]

    I would expect someone who writes professionally for a mainstream political blog to know that the New Democrats pride themselves specifically on not being “traditionally liberal”:

    In the politics of the United States, the New Democrats are an ideologically centrist faction within the Democratic Party that emerged after the victory of Republican George H. W. Bush in the 1988 presidential election.
    They are identified with more center-right social/cultural positions and neoliberal fiscal values.[1][2]
    .
    They are represented by organizations such as the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), the New Democrat Network, and the Senate and House New Democrat Coalitions.

    Please correct this factual error, Adam Sorensen.

  • apollyon07

    Read what the founding father’s wrote on their own about individual gun rights, and the intent of the 2nd Amendment becomes clear. Can’t wait to see the Supreme Court uphold a basic civil right by the thinnest of margins (5-4)…again.

  • 53_3

    Repeat this lie after me:
    .
    “Strict Constructionist”

  • Joe Bftsplk

    Oh, hey, welcome apollo!
    Sorry to have strayed off-topic.
    But say, are you feelin’ all warm inside today, not having to worry about your health insurance being canceled?

  • rose83

    stuart, did you see Rahm Emanuel on Katie Couric? Or David Plouffe with Karl Rove? I admit I’m not confident in the Democrats’ ability to effectively make the arguments which seem so obvious to us.
    .
    But I agree that the arguments are strong, and I think MoveOn and other groups will be able to make effective ads with people talking about how health care reform has saved them from bankruptcy/ having to stop chemotherapy/ watch their child suffer from diabetes and be unable to help.
    .
    And I also think that the economy is just not a winning issue for Republicans, unless they can shift away from being the party against regulating big business. So it’s not that health care is a good issue for Republicans; it’s just the best they have.
    .
    Isn’t the Republican leadership going to face “Well, Congressman, where’s the socialist takeover?” questions prior to November, in which they’ll have to walk back those claims or be ridiculed by the press corps, at which point they’ll be open to screams of betrayal by the non-reality-based base?
    .
    I’ll believe that when I see it! Haven’t you heard? The press is so busy talking about how Obama failed to agree with crazy Republicans that they don’t have time to talk about how Republicans are crazy.

  • Ivy_B

    they’ll have to walk back those claims or be ridiculed by the press corps,
    .
    I would certainly love to see that happening, but I will be surprised. After watching the dancing around to avoid saying anything accusatory about the racial slurs, etc. this week-end while showing film clips in the background, I can’t imagine the press ridiculing such claims. They certainly haven’t felt the need to mention the outright lies they have given air space in the last several months. After all, both sides do it.

  • nflfoghorn

    Government WAS the problem in Ray-gun’s eyes…that’s why he gave tax cuts to the greedy and spending cuts to the needy, watched our deficit grow, got re-elected, got tied up in Iran-Contra and got dementia.

  • destor23

    It’s usually considered bad form for a writer or editor not to at least respond to a polite and detaiked request for a correction or clarification. Three commenters on this post (including me) have taken friendly issue with the way in which the politics of this debate has been described. This is no small issue. If Obama is now the mainstream definition of “left” then where does that leave the rest of us?

    Really, this has been a debate between centrists and the right wing. Voices from the left have been unfairly left out for a long time. At least they could care enough to get the terms right.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    As I continue to say, setting aside my own progressive disenchantment, if unemployment remains at/around 10%, the dems are proverbially screwed.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “If Obama is now the mainstream definition of “left” then where does that leave the rest of us?”
    .
    Excellent pt. as only the deeply engaged are aware that Obama is not a liberal democrat. Nor do they know that this bill is not a liberal fix. If it goes unimproved, however, it will stand in for liberalism, it’s failings going FWD bankrupting the wrong ideology, and ultimately resulting in a pivot back to the nutter party.
    .
    However, expecting Adam or anyone else in MSM to give two sh!ts about the terms is foolhardy. As I replied to you yesterday on your Kucinich-Stupak contrast:
    .
    ‘nothing can be more insulting than seeing progressives continuously disparaged or ignored outright by MSM. Meanwhile, the likes of this arse-clown [Stupak] or assorted rightist wankers get breathless MSM treatment (or Time covers). Why liberals feel the need to speak to this media with respect (seeking their validation in some humiliating, masochistic fashion) when they hold us in such unmitigated disdain, well, it sure is sweet.’

  • apollyon07

    Not a problem (straying off topic). It’s interesting that you made an assumption about my position on health care based on my position on an unrelated issue. Wanna talk more about guns?

  • destor23

    @jcapan: Too true. But I do try to stand with sz when he asks for polite clarifications. Sometimes you catch some one on a good day!

  • sacredh

    God hated Reagan because Nancy was into the occult. He ran for President because he sucked as an actor.

  • square1

    Obama, despite campaigning under the banner of post-partisanship, has a traditionally liberal view of governance; he just prefers to seek common ground and strike a conciliatory tone in his pursuit.

    May I join the chorus calling B.S. on this nonsense? Adam Sorensen must be a mind-reader because I cannot fathom what in the past year would lead one to conclude that Obama has “a traditionally liberal view of governance”.

    As long as we are all friends here, lets be honest. The only reason why anyone would even suggest that Barack Obama is anything other than a run-of-the-mill corporate-cheerleading New Democrat — as SZ correctly points out — is that he is black.

    Obama is a former University of Chicago professor and corporate lawyer. His mentor in the Senate was Joe Lieberman and he had Tim Kaine and Evan Bayh on his short list — two politically unpopular guys that Obama would never consider unless he wanted to create a ticket with a shared ideology (echoing Clinton-Gore). When was the last time that Lieberman, Bayh, or Kaine were accused of being liberal? In 1963, when Joementum returned from Mississippi?

    Following the inauguration, Obama wasted no time in inviting Billy Tauzin to the White House to cut a deal with PhRMA.

    Obama also became, if possible, more of a Wall Street cheerleader than Bush ever was: choosing Summers, Geithner, and a slew of Goldman Sachs and Citibank alums for his economic team; extending the policy of bailing out Wall Street with no strings attached; reappointing Bernanke; and avoiding any serious effort at financial reform.

    How could anyone conclude anything other than Obama bears no resemblance to a “traditional liberal” and has deliberately chosen corporatist domestic policies?

  • Art Pepper

    despite campaigning under the banner of post-partisanship

    Oh, good grief. We’re still on this?

    Leaving aside definitions of liberalism … Obama reached across the aisle, engaged with Republicans (or tried to), and incorporated Republican ideas into the bill. The GOP threw a hissy fit. Ergo … Obama fails the bipartisan test? (Or “post-partisan,” whatever that means.)

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “The only reason why anyone would even suggest that Barack Obama is anything other than a run-of-the-mill corporate-cheerleading New Democrat — as SZ correctly points out — is that he is black.”
    .
    Who is “anyone” Square? The media, conservatives, liberals? Is Obama the first centrist described as a liberal (or a liberal constrained by circumstance)? Wasn’t Bill Clinton also wrongly considered a liberal, even by many authentic liberals in his own party? Wasn’t Hillary? Was that b/c he’s a cracker or she’s a white chick? Sorry, but the color of his skin is completely irrelevant.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “”Those on the left like it, those on the right don’t.”"

    You would think a profession supposedly centered around empiricism, would not produce statements completely divorced from reality.

  • square1

    jcapan:

    First off, when Clinton and Gore ran in 1992, they were both considered centrists, not liberal, by anyone with a brain. Gore was considered a foreign policy hawk for his support for the Gulf War.

    Sure, Republicans are going to do their damnedest to paint ANYBODY in the Democratic Party as being “the most extremest of the extremely extreme Far Left.” But the reality is that, in 1992, Bill Clinton did not hide his views. He ran as a pro-death penalty, pro-welfare reform, pro-”free trade”, pro-”more cops on the streets” candidate. The themes of his campaign were reactions to the failure of Carter, Mondale, & Dukakis. Then after ’94, he hired Morris, then Gergen, kicked the liberals to the curb and never looked back. No, other than partisans, I didn’t hear too much about Clinton governing as a liberal. And it cost Gore in 2000.

    Second, notwithstanding Bill Clinton’s fundamental centrism, there is compelling argument that Clinton began more liberal than Obama but abandoned any pretense of liberalism as a reaction the Hillarycare failure and the ’94 butt-kicking that the Dems took. IOW, Clinton was pushed rightward and Obama simply started off there. Obama’s support for the no-strings-attached TARP bill when he could have used it as club to smash the Bush administration speaks volumes about Obama’s fundamental view of governance.

    Third, it isn’t 1994 anymore. Back then the DLC was a legitimately intellectual organization that largely advocated that Democrats be open to “conservative” means to achieve “liberal” ends. IOW, don’t immediately rule-out “conservative” ideas like pollution-credit trading, environmental cost-benefit analyses, welfare reform, or educational accountability simply because Republicans often have bad motives for proposing them. Back in 1992, a public option or a Medicare buy-in would have been a DLC-esque, pro-competition alternative to a mandated, government-run single-payer system. The line between a centrist and a liberal was far more gray.

    Flash forward to 2010. The DLC is a cesspool of amoral, intellectually-bankrupt corporate whores. The New Democrats are a slightly less discredited version. The line between Blue Dogs and liberals is far brighter than the line between Blue Dogs and Republicans.

    It shouldn’t surprise anybody that Obama would have evoked liberal themes during the election campaign because the grassroots of the party (i.e. the primary and caucus voters) is made up of liberals. The question is whether there is any evidence whatsoever to support the argument that Obama has a “a traditionally liberal view of governance”.

    I would argue that there is zero evidence for that statement. At literally every single step of his Presidency, Obama has governed as a New Democrat. If Even Bayh were President right now, I don’t think there is a chance in Hell that anybody would be referring to him as a liberal. I barely see daylight between Bayh and Obama.

  • square1

    jcapan (sorry for the other, unbroken post):

    First off, when Clinton and Gore ran in 1992, they were both considered centrists, not liberal, by anyone with a brain. Gore was considered a foreign policy hawk for his support for the Gulf War.

    Sure, Republicans are going to do their damnedest to paint ANYBODY in the Democratic Party as being “the most extremest of the extremely extreme Far Left.” But the reality is that, in 1992, Bill Clinton did not hide his views. He ran as a pro-death penalty, pro-welfare reform, pro-”free trade”, pro-”more cops on the streets” candidate. The themes of his campaign were reactions to the failure of Carter, Mondale, & Dukakis. Then after ’94, he hired Morris, then Gergen, kicked the liberals to the curb and never looked back. No, other than partisans, I didn’t hear too much about Clinton governing as a liberal. And it cost Gore in 2000.

    Second, notwithstanding Bill Clinton’s fundamental centrism, there is compelling argument that Clinton began more liberal than Obama but abandoned any pretense of liberalism as a reaction the Hillarycare failure and the ’94 butt-kicking that the Dems took. IOW, Clinton was pushed rightward and Obama simply started off there. Obama’s support for the no-strings-attached TARP bill when he could have used it as club to smash the Bush administration speaks volumes about Obama’s fundamental view of governance.

    Third, it isn’t 1994 anymore. Back then the DLC was a legitimately intellectual organization that largely advocated that Democrats be open to “conservative” means to achieve “liberal” ends. IOW, don’t immediately rule-out “conservative” ideas like pollution-credit trading, environmental cost-benefit analyses, welfare reform, or educational accountability simply because Republicans often have bad motives for proposing them. Back in 1992, a public option or a Medicare buy-in would have been a DLC-esque, pro-competition alternative to a mandated, government-run single-payer system. The line between a centrist and a liberal was far more gray.

    Flash forward to 2010. The DLC is a cesspool of amoral, intellectually-bankrupt corporate whores. The New Democrats are a slightly less discredited version. The line between Blue Dogs and liberals is far brighter than the line between Blue Dogs and Republicans.

    It shouldn’t surprise anybody that Obama would have evoked liberal themes during the election campaign because the grassroots of the party (i.e. the primary and caucus voters) is made up of liberals. The question is whether there is any evidence whatsoever to support the argument that Obama has a “a traditionally liberal view of governance”.

    I would argue that there is zero evidence for that statement. At literally every single step of his Presidency, Obama has governed as a New Democrat. If Even Bayh were President right now, I don’t think there is a chance in Hell that anybody would be referring to him as a liberal. I barely see daylight between Bayh and Obama.

  • http://presidentsuit.com PresidentSuit

    “Why It Won’t Matter Much In November”? Let’s wait until the November elections are over and see what happens. It’s possible you are right, that despite the 100,000s of thousands of Americans marching in the streets of Washington and other major cities, despite the overwhelming of town hall meetings last summer, despite 100,000 calls an hour into the Congressional switchboard this week, despite the first Republican elected to Senate in more than 4 decades from Ted Kennedy’s home state, despite the notoriously liberal NJ electorate tossing Obama’s Goldman Sachs guy Corzine out of office, despite the Virginia election, that Americans don’t care and that once they find out what the bill will mean, they will embrace it. Who knows? Maybe you’re right! And maybe all the commenters here bashing folks on the right have hit the nail on the head, that we just don’t understand that Obama a “New democrat” governing from the center.
    We’ll just have to wait for the elections and see what happens… Daily snarky political humor and social commentary at President Suit, Savior of the World blog http://patrioticmobster.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/220-blind-to-the-polls-deaf-to-the-american-people/

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    “jcapan (sorry for the other, unbroken post)”
    .
    Dude, don’t apologize to me–but look out for SZ!
    .
    Thanks for the lengthy response. But I’m still not there. “First off, when Clinton and Gore ran in 1992, they were both considered centrists, not liberal, by anyone with a brain.” Who has a brain Square? I voted for them twice, and most dems I knew (serious progressives in my limo-liberal, boutiquey haunts in DC) saw very little daylight between their DLC governance and their lefty philosophies. We see and believe what we want to see and believe, particularly when it aids us in our thirst to skin up and wage greater wars as the evildoers.
    .
    I agree that they were more full-throated about the DLC gospel and further, than such now-tainted centrism has about it more cache. However, I disagree about it ever being more than it is, corpo-whoredom.
    .
    Totally agree with this: “The line between Blue Dogs and liberals is far brighter than the line between Blue Dogs and Republicans.”
    .
    But in the end, I see no basis whatsoever that he’s been portrayed as a bonafide liberal by conservatives or the media simply b/c the color of his skin. Perhaps your contention is that it’s dems themselves who have fallen under the guise of his faux-liberalism b/c he’s black? Again, I see no evidence, beyond the fact that his is simply a very gifted politician able thus far to walk the high wire. Finally, I do think if Bayh were president, pushing the same agenda as Obama, he’d face the exact same (false) cries of liberalism/socialism etc.
    .
    This is not to deny the presence of race, front and center, among the vast majority of the teabagging f@cktards that wouldn’t be able to knowingly define an ism if it frontally assaulted them.
    .
    Square, I’m almost always in agreement with your views, and there’s much we agree on here, but this reads like a variation on the affirm. action theme, positing that Obama only got where he is b/c… I do think many dem voters, and progressives, are (perhaps willfully) deluded about what Obama is but I can’t get to where you’re at.

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Sorry for the slop: “their (Clinton/Gore) DLC governance and their (many of my hill-working friends) lefty philosophies. We see and believe what we want to see and believe, particularly when it aids us in our thirst to skin up and wage greater wars as (i.e. against) the evildoers.”

    “I agree that they were more full-throated about the DLC gospel and further, than (that) such now-tainted centrism has about it more cache”
    .
    “Again, I see no evidence, beyond the fact that his (he) is simply a very gifted politician able thus far to walk the high wire.”
    .
    Sorry, trying desperately to respond under two tight deadlines, before la nina awakes and I have to catch my train to dreaded Osaka.

  • stuartzechman

    Man, I’m really going to have to think about what both of you have written.
    .
    The difference between 1992 and now is huge, there was no “progressive” that the centrist think tanks had come up with as a substitute for liberal…there are just so many differences.
    .
    This is an excellent discussion by people whose knowledge and opinions I respect, thanks to you both.
    .
    I really need to think about the question “Is Barack Obama’s presumed liberalism a function of his race?”
    .
    Thanks again.

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/ Shakespeare in GA

    Would it be fair to call this a centrist bill with liberal pretensions? Or at least liberal aspirations? Covering 31 million additional people, ditching pre-existing conditions, etc. are not what leap to mind when considering right-wing policies.

  • square1

    I’ll make this one (a little) shorter.
    .
    Yes, I think it is Dems who have largely been fooled by the color of his skin into believing that Obama is more liberal than he is. And, yes, I think that both Hillary and Pelosi are similarly considered more liberal by Dems than the evidence support because they are women.
    .
    Also, I disagree about the DLC. I supported the DLC in the early 90s. It wasn’t all about sucking up to corporate donors. It was really about accepting that liberalism wasn’t perfect and that liberals should be willing to be more open minded to different policy approaches.
    .
    I think Democrats today forget that, back in the 1988-1992, Democrats had dominated Congress for half a Century. Despite the post-Watergate reforms, you still had powerful committee chairs who were simply about arrogating power to themselves. Accusing Dems of wanting “big government” was a legitimate accusation. Not because Democrats were communists, but because the bigger government became (even if wasteful), the more powerful the committee chairs became. It wasn’t ideological in the slightest.

    The DLC started off as a way to make the Democratic Party leaner, meaner, and ideologically meaningful. Say goodbye to $500 hammers and toilet seats. Say hello to the internet.

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/ Shakespeare in GA

    Is it liberal to see government as a force for good? As a mechanism for providing (or attempting to guarantee) basic care for the citizens of a nation?
    .
    Obama seems liberal in the sense of seeing government as a place where politicians can and should enact legislation that positively impacts citizens.
    .
    I see Obama as being liberal in terms of vision and centrist in terms of methodology.
    .
    Am I way off?

  • diecash1

    Would it be fair to call this a centrist bill with liberal pretensions?

    No. This bill is almost wholly comprised of Republican ideas circa 1993-94. Were it to have liberal aspirations, it would have contained a strong public option at the least.

  • stuartzechman

    Shakespeare in GA:
    .
    First of all, let’s define Obama. Obama is a New Democrat. Those folks subscribe to a newer political philosophy than liberalism called “The Third Way” or “Third Way centrism.” Third Way believers have a different way of looking at government and its relation to the economy than both liberals and conservatives.
    .
    Is it liberal to see government as a force for good? As a mechanism for providing (or attempting to guarantee) basic care for the citizens of a nation?
    .
    Well, that’s tricky, isn’t it? Both liberals and Third Way centrists see government as a force for good, but in very different ways.
    .
    Liberals see the Federal government as a force for good because it can counteract the power of the other forces that confront ordinary people in a market economy, which can be insanely wealthy individuals or enormous corporations. If a coal-mining operation pollutes the water, the government can be there on behalf of folks who live there to stop it. If a bank speculates with its customers’ money, the Feds can stop it from endangering their life savings.
    .
    In other words, it’s the government’s role to balance the threats to liberty and opportunity that come from powerful private interests that can arise in a free market.
    .
    But liberals also know that the state itself can be a threat to freedom and individual liberty. We know that a too-powerful government will try to free itself from accountability to its citizens, and shroud itself in secrecy. The state will overreach, and restrict the rights of its citizens, or spy on them, or keep valuable information to itself.
    .
    So liberals don’t always see the government as a force for good, but a force for balance.
    .
    As to whether the government is mechanism for providing basic care for people, there are differences between different kinds of liberals as to the extent of this role, but we can certainly agree that the state needs to provide a basic safety net for people, because otherwise they’re completely at the mercy of the people who can afford to hire and fire them, and that limits freedom for everyone in practice.
    .
    Obama seems liberal in the sense of seeing government as a place where politicians can and should enact legislation that positively impacts citizens.
    .
    I see Obama as being liberal in terms of vision and centrist in terms of methodology.
    .
    Am I way off?

    .
    Well…here’s the difference between Obama’s “centrism” and the kind of centrism you’re imagining. Obama’s kind of centrism is that Third Way centrism that I was describing earlier. You’re thinking that “centrism” means “moderately liberal” or “bipartisan,” and that used to be the case when there was only liberal and conservative viewpoints. But since there came to be this Third Way between right and left, and since they have their own political philosophy (I’ll get to that in a second), “centrism” doesn’t necessarily mean “moderate liberal” or “willing to work with Republicans” or “pragmatic realist.” It really means people who subscribe to Third Way politics.
    .
    Where Third Way people part ways with liberals isn’t on the question of whether the government can be a force for good –they believe it can be– but on the question of how the government can be a force for good.
    .
    Third Way advocates believe that the government works best when it operates in a partnership role with powerful private interests, not an adversarial role. Whereas liberals want the government to prevent big business and industry from gaining too much power, Third Way advocates want the government to help big business and big industry be better at being powerful, and they want cooperation instead of resistance to big government policies from these interests in return.
    .
    Liberals would see the value in a public insurance option, because it would compete with local insurance monopolies, for example. Third Way advocates believe that it isn’t the government’s job to directly compete with private business, but to help industry through regulation and incentives.
    .
    That’s why the exchange is so important to them. That’s the mechanism whereby private industry can compete only with themselves, and not the government. When Joe Klein talks about a “market-oriented overhaul of Medicare and Medicaid,” he’s talking about putting poor people and old people in an exchange to buy individual policies, instead of just being signed up for a government benefit. When Third Way centrists talk about this reform being a “first of many steps,” they don’t mean toward a more liberal policy like Medicare or Social Security, which only benefit ordinary people, they mean toward something like a 401k plan, which benefits corporations primarily, people second.
    .
    They’re also different from liberals in the way that liberals view state power, as well. Instead of being wary of government’s abuses, and skeptical of granting the power to spy and keep secrets from citizens, as liberals are, Third Way centrists don’t have a problem with the government doing those things, because they view the state as a force for good, not a force for balance. They like security-state bureaucracy, and trust it, just like they trust the corporations to whom they outsource the technical running of the security apparatus.
    .
    So it’s a little tough sometimes to understand where these politicians are coming from, because they’re Democrats, and they believe in big government, but they also believe in big industry and big finance, too. They even call themselves “progressives,” these Third Way folks –it’s not the word “liberal.”
    .
    Obama is a Third Way Democrat, a centrist in the sense that he favors Third Way centrism as a guiding political philosophy, not liberalism or conservatism. That’s why we got the bank bailouts, and his FISA reversal, and now this health care policy.
    .
    I hope that this long explanation of what we mean by “centrism” made things a little clearer for you, Shakespeare in GA, thanks so much for reading this far.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    I agree there is nothing progressive about Obama. The only relation he has to the Left is they are a group he lied to in order to gain power. I imagine he will lie to them again in about 3 years. Hopefully, at that time, the Left will be smart enough to throw dust in his face and either stay home or vote for the local goat.

  • square1

    Stuart, I’d say that you accurately describe the state of Third Way/New Democrat/”centrism” as it has existed in the Democratic Party for the past 10-15 years.
    .
    Once you understand that these New Democrats have an ideology that does not necessarily lie in the political center between the two parties you begin to realize what clever rhetorical devices they employ. By calling for “bipartisanship” and constantly referring themselves as centrists they routinely get the media to portray their positions as being sensible compromises of the vast majority of Americans’ views, rather than the fringe minority positions of wealthy elites.
    .
    The one point that I will still argue is that when the terms the “Third Way” and “New Democrats” were coined, and when the DLC was founded, they really did not describe the centrism that later developed. Or at least the ideology did not take over the DLC and New Democratic movement until later. In the late 80′s and early 90′s, many of those who would later be attracted to the Third Way movement were still either Rockefeller Republicans or Reagan Democrats. It wasn’t until AFTER Clinton’s Sistah Souljah moment, the passage of NAFTA, and the technology boom, that the Democratic Party really began to attract large numbers of white-collar professionals with few qualms about corporate power.

  • sanpaco

    Some of the stupidest, most clueless stuff I read comes from this site. “No one’s gonna care about healthcare reform in November.” Oh yeah we’re furious right now but don’t worry, we’ll completely forget about it in the next 5 months. How stupid do you think people are? Mark my words, this will NOT go away before November. People are furious about this and you’ll be hearing about it long after November.

  • allthingsinaname

    Egad another clairvoyant! Talking with Nancy Regan are we? 14 months, it all we heard and now you proclaim no one cares?
    .
    Good God man you made your living off of it for the last year.
    .
    Where in God’s green earth are you coming from?
    Even the GOP has promised to make it the presiding issue. Do you not read your own reports?

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    Square, thanks for the response. You make a pretty good case for the DLC evolution to centrist/3rd way/corporatism from purer origins.
    .
    I remember finding their snake oil alluring, particularly after 12 debilitating years of Reagan-Bush, but I’ve long subscribed to Howard Zinn’s view of American hIstory, particularly his view of our so-called liberal leaders (I guess this means I should marry Jane Hamsher?) The dems then (and obviously now) did not govern as liberals.
    .
    Therefore, then as now, when you say, “It was really about accepting that liberalism wasn’t perfect and that liberals should be willing to be more open minded to different policy approaches,” I could and still can make only one conclusion–that you’re poised to sell-out progressive ideals even further by shifting to the right. And, hey, that might have been a wise move in ’92.
    .
    In any event, it’s all water under the bridge now. They are what they are, their ideology dominates our party, whatever one calls it, and ulitmately it’s turned the dems into “Rockefeller Republicans or Reagan Democrats.”

  • http://jcapan.wordpress.com jcapan

    ‘…that you’re poised to sell-out progressive ideals”
    .
    For clarity’s sake, I don’t mean you personally but the DLC.

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/ Shakespeare in GA

    Stuart Zechman, thanks very much for the explanation. Much food for thought.
    .
    Having moved from the right (grew up loving Reagan, voted for Bush 1) to the left (voted for Clinton the second time around, then Gore, Kerry, and Obama), I’ve been growing more comfortable with traditional liberal policies only recently. Therefore I haven’t experienced the same sense of disappointment or bitterness that you and others have expressed regarding the treatment of the left. Your cogent explanation makes this clearer, and I appreciate it.

  • sacredh

    This post is for the people who are disappointed in the Obama administration. The true legacy of a President is his Supreme Court picks. If you are angry at Obama and plan to stay home in November 2012, do you really want more Roberts, Alitos, Thomases, etc on the bench? Are you going to let your anger result in the Supreme Court taking a hard right for a generation?

    There’s is always the very real possibility that a conservative will retire or pass away. The makeup of the court is 5-4 in favor of the right. Does the chance that it could go 5-4 in the other direction make it worth while to cast your vote for Obama again?

  • Ivy_B

    Yes, yes, yes!
    .
    We tend to forget about the Court until they make decisions that we hate. I would not consider voting for a Republican for President, no matter how much I might wish for another Democratic candidate because of the court.

  • sacredh

    Ivy_B, I’m disappointed in some of the things Obama has (and hasn’t) done. There isn’t a politician out there that is going to make me 100% happy. Long after the president is gone, his choices for the bench are going to be there making decisions and determining the direction of the country. I’d vote for Obama again in 2012 even if I was sure that no vacancies would pop up.
    .
    I can’t see the republicans putting anybody in there that would be an improvement over Barack. You can bet that they’ll nominate somebody that will put another right winger on the bench. Obama may or may not be a centrist or a third way democrat. I don’t care. I’m not going to take a chance that the Supreme Court is going to wind up 6-3 or worse in favor of the wing nuts.

  • notfooledtx

    The incompetence of republican presidential administrations is what branded our federal government as the problem.

    It’s not government that’s the problem, it’s incompetent governance. That’s where reagan and the rest of the republican misfits come in – they propel the legacy with their ineptitude.

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