Democrats Seem Poised for a Victory on Health Care

Then I expect that on Monday morning I will wake up to:
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brown shirts and cossacks patroling my street.
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My government will now be socialist/faciest.
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Churches will be overrun by those professing “social justice”.
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Death panels will be dragging old people from their homes and turning them into soylent green.
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What other horrors will be awaiting?

Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Malkin going absolutely batsh!t. To say nothing of John Boehner and Mitch McConnell. Livid, frothing-at-the-mouth, bug-eyed weeping insanity.
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Come to think of it, maybe those aren’t horrors.

I’m just waiting to see how many lawsuits get filed in Federal Court on Monday morning. That should be fun.

It’s the debate that never ends, it goes on and on my friends…

“brown shirts and cossacks patroling my street.”

Cossacks? Really? You expect hired mercenaries from foreign countries to come here and then get screwed out of payment by the government like the cossacks were by the Russians in the 1400′s through the late 1700′s?

That’s either incredibly insightful or a woeful lack of knowledge of history.

Please let this matter be focused on the reform. Race is an issue which might never be fully eradicated from the fiber of American society.

As for the anti-gay activists, I do not think they are going away soon. These boorish responses to a debate and vote on a germane issue is unfortunate BUT I hope they do not deflect attention from the issues at hand.

Wow this debate is akin to a long race.

After you have broken past the wall at the 20 mile line and you can see the 26th mile point— but your legs feel like someone has replaced them with heavy rocks and your thighs feel like Rush Limbaugh’s thighs hahaha —- The only thing which spurs you to finish hard and place is FOCUS. Focus on finishing the race.

In like manner, there is still a lot to be done with the bill. A critical and historical event could occur tomorrow.
Like many other Independents who want a robust and meaningful change to the health care plan, I am waiting with baited breath for the outcome of the voting in congress.

Things need to be done, A bill needs to be passed into Law. History might be made tomorrow. We can only hope and pray that change finally comes to health care.

LM
http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/technology-savvy-nigerian-criminals-are-the-greatest-threat-to-national-security/

STUPAK’S ZEALOTRY IS BAD FOR WOMEN, BAD FOR AMERICA!
Stupak’s zealotry represents the kind of religious fundamentalism we have come to believe exists abhorrently in Taliban Afghanistan and Pakistan (those countries are not controlled by them now), and some parts of the Middle East. In these places, religious zealots also try to control politics. If Democrats succumb to the Bart Stupaks of this world, egged on by the American Conference of Catholic Bishop Conference–and by extension, the Vatican–America is finished as an enlightened democracy. Stupak’s move is bold and unprecedented. The implications are dare and horrendous because it goes beyond what even the Supreme Court dared to do. What right does a religious fanatic or religious groups in America have to dictate government policy in America even in a tradition of separation of church and state? Think of the nature of this blackmail: Stupak and some bishops of one particular religious organization in a country of many faiths are attempting to blackmail us all to accept their way or no way at all. This is arrogant and undemocratic to say the least. If we accept this blackmail, where will they go next. What prevents them from attempting to blackmail us in other areas whenever critical votes are needed for some important legislation? Religious groups will just become emboldened to push the envelope still more, and more. What prevents other religious organizations from foisting their own particular demands and agenda upon us? And let us never forget that America is not a theocracy and that there are still non-believers in our midst, as well as Jews, Hindus, Muslims, animists, Satanists and many more others. Is it what benefits the Christian church that must only be considered legitimate in American public policy and political decision-making? Already religious groups are benefiting from many robust tax exemptions—a sort of affirmative action for religious groups. What kind of America are we going to live in the future when certain religious groups, spearheaded by their prelates and fanatics dictate to us all about how to live our lives. Presidential candidate JFK, made a solemn pledge that his public policies will not be dictated from the Vatican nor by the Catholic Church. Gladly, we as a nation have left behind the era of mindless persecution of certain religious groups, especially Jews and Catholics. The current moves by Catholic Bishops do not help at all. It is frightening and highly condemnable!!!
Dr. Sam

I live in New Zealand. yeah, that little thing beside Australia.

We have public haeathcare and always have! You need an Operation, so you get one. You have an accident, you get healed. You big worry in the ER is how long till the xray, not how long and how much will this cost!!
And guess what, if I don’t think thats good enough, i can buy private healthcare! Who stops you doing that.

And guess what, every western country except the US thas this. I guess we just believe that health and education are of right for all. You have socialized education and no one seems to have died or needed Senator McCarthy. Imagine people being treated as equals and being looked after when they are sick or hurt. horrible thought eh

Squatch! Good to see you again. Are you bringing more fake surveys (link) to lie about, or are you just sticking around to cheer on the “kill the bill, ni**er” team?
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ps- cosack is shorthand for Soviet military, and is being used tongue-in-cheek to mock those who think that Obama’s health plan harkens at once to both fascism (hence the nazi ‘brown shirts’) and communism (hence the cossacks). The fact that cossacks were not always loyal to the czar (and vice versa) should not be used to obscure the fact that, for all it’s shortcomings, Obamacare is nowhere near socialism nor fascism, and therefore the people who use such comparisons are either hysterically misinformed or joking.

anon76-

Your inability to read my reply to your post on the topic you mention warrants a reply.

I am not a liar. You are apparently not smart enough to know that recent medical journals are not free. If you want to read the full script of what I referred to, I suggest buying an online subscription or going to a library that pays for the paper version. As with a journal like Arms Control Today (another “right wing conspiracy” I’m sure you’ll agree) it’s NOT FREE therefore you CAN’T google it until it’s about 9 months old. The same way you can’t google most of the new Chemical and Engineering News, Nature, Science or JAMA articles. Not everything is available on Radio Free Europe (great site by the way, if you care or could possibly expend the time and brainpower to grasp international issues).

If you feel the need to pay the money for them, I suggest making sure the newest items are available (not all journals are available) at http://www.jstor.org

Until you realize that we are not yet a socialist utopia, please realize that a lot of new information requires you actually expend effort (more than sitting at your computer) to access it. Try the old school method: a library, before you call someone a lair.

Use your “shorthand” all you like. I prefer historical accuracy rather than “shorthand”. For an ACTUAL look at cossacks I suggest the following (though not a full account by any means but what I happen to have sitting on my bookshelf in this room) :

Strategy and Power in Russia 1600-1914 by Fuller.
The Modernization of Russia 1726-1825 by Dixon
A History of Russia Volume 1 by Moss

But those are another crazy right wing conspiracy called “books” which I’m sure you don’t have time for due to their lunacy.

gman67-

I lived in New Zealand (Dunedin) for a long time. I know most of you statements to be false from dealing with my doctor there. Further, I doubt you are a Kiwi, because your lack of spelling and grammar speaks poorly of a school system I know from attending to be top notch. No third form teacher would pass you in english. If you are from the great country please stop doing the Empire such a disservice as exposing your lack of the King’s.

Note:

Empire, Commonwealth, use your terms as you see fit. Your spelling and grammar usage are still the sort of stuff I would have failed third and forth form english for. If you are a Kiwi, please stop doing such a good school system the disservice of speaking in public and therefore disparaging it.

The Republicans have used every scare tactic, lies and distortions to defeat this bill. One has to wonder if they are actually trying to defeat Obama (racism?) on every bill that he proposes. The team of McConnell, Boehner (who incidentally comes from a long line of sleezy Ohio congressmen) and Cantor pound on the Healthcare bill and state “The American People do not want this bill.” Get real == how many Americans have read this bill which would take approximately 40 hours. How many Congressmen have read it? When asked specifics like: do you think Americans should be denied insurance for preconditions, do you think insurance companies should be able to hike premiums sky high when they are making exhorbitant profits, do you think people should be dropped from having coverage if they incur high costs..the list goes on. Most Americans say NO. We have the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and believe it or not Expert Palin blasting this bill. They truly need some medical care (psychiatric). This is not socialsim any more than requiring people to have driver’s licenses.

I hope the Republicans and Democrats do the right thing when voting, and note be brow beaten by the President and Pelosi, like the President is being brow beaten by the people that put him in office from Chicago.

The profound reality is passing the bill like HCR is the right thing to do. It cuts deficits by $1.3 trillion, and cuts federal spending on healthcare. 4 million jobs will be created, and 32 million men, women and children will get the healthcare they so desperately need. It will be another momentous and remarkable victory for Obama and his administration!

I think most of the accolades should go to the moderates and right-wingers in the Democratic party, if this passes. The radical left-wing extremists in the party, whose ideas were completely removed from the bill, should not get any of the credit.

As a neighbor to the north, and after reading New Zealand comment, we only have the public option with limited private opportunities. New Zealand and Australia have both…as I understand it. If that is what is being offered in the U.S. who wouldn’t want it? All the people who are uninsured, including illegal immigrants are treated for free in your hospitals anyways, aren’t they? I really do not get the problem… fascism, socialism, cossacks in the street….hysteria!

The president is being brow beaten by people from Chicago? What the h-ll are you talking about?

Ssssh, don’t confuse the trolls with facts and figures.

What’s really funny is that, once the bill is enacted, ‘Sqatch and his right-whinging buddies will benefit from it just like all of us normal Americans.
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I can just imagine him on the phone to an insurance company after the bill passes, saying, “B-b-but you have to disqualify me! I have a pre-existing condition!”

Derek: somewhere Stuart Zechman is reading your post and having an apoplectic fit. Many people would argue that the conservative Blue Dogs killed any idea of more liberal programs, like a public option or single-payer systems, that–these same folks would argue–would do a more effective job of achieving the stated goals of HCR. SZ argues that liberals were kicked to the curb by centrist Democrats. (Although he can argue this far more persuasively than I can.)
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For myself, I think the process of making this bill has been quite ugly. But the end product is an improvement upon the status quo. And I hope that, with the passage of this bill, we can continue to improve upon the health care system in this country while showing that the government is not “taking over” anything.
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All that said, here’s an interesting piece of historical perspective on health care reinventions: http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-politics/20100320/US.Health.Care.Moment.in.History/.

Derek:
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he can argue this far more persuasively than I can
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Apparently, I cannot.
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David Sirota can, though, maybe…
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link to “The Health Care Bill: What’s the Matter With the Democrats?: Liberal Groups obediently follow Orders to back the Bill”

Stuart, just because liberals will vote for this bill, even though all of their ideas have been expunged, don’t think for a moment that they are not radicals who refuse to compromise on anything, unlike our brothers in the middle and the far right of the party, who have made so many sacrifices. If the radical left had been allowed to offer input there would have been cost savings and competition introduced into the market, principles only a Stalin would appreciate.

Derek:
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If the radical left had been allowed to offer input there would have been cost savings and competition introduced into the market, principles only a Stalin would appreciate.
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I think you’ve got that all wrong.
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If far left liberals like Ron Wyden and Anthony Weiner had had their way, the result would have been the catastrophic Maoism of a program of health care in which every American –poor, affluent and middle class– would have shared in a nation-wide program whose obvious benefits could probably never have been rolled back in the future.

If Stupak were a Jehovah’s Witness would Congress allow him to stop blood transfusions? I doubt it, so why let him meddle with abortion?

We have public schools, public libraries, public fire fighters & police, public roads, public defenders, Medicare and Medicaid. Even our military forces are there to protect & defend us all regardless of color, age, gender, etnicity, religion etc… None of these “socialistic” services has destroyed our country – quite the contrary it has added to the well-being of our society and its individuals.

Stuart, thank God the party only pays attention to people like you and me when they need money, or votes, otherwise this country would have been ruined years ago.

There are some times when I really regret the stupidity and ignorance of the GOP’s activist base, and the tactics their leaders use to exploit those gullible rightists.
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I’ve just made the mistake of watching Meet The Press, and this is one of those times.
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The Republicans portrayed themselves as the defenders of capitalism. All the Democrats had to do was say “It’s not radical socialism,” and they’re the winners of the debate.
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So next time, the GOP will tell its idiot following that Democrats are hedgehogs or marsupials, or something, and all Tim Kaine has to do is get up in front of Fluffy, and say “No, David, the president isn’t descended from kangaroos,” and that’s the end of the policy discussion.
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What a bad, bad state of affairs for the country.

Derek:
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thank God the party only pays attention to people like you and me
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And I’m so grateful that party leadership has recently switched the meaning of “pay attention” from “lie” to “call f*cking retards.”

…just because liberals will vote for this bill, even though all of their ideas have been expunged, don’t think for a moment that they are not radicals who refuse to compromise on anything…
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I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning.

“Death panels” again? Sarah Palin rhetoric, which means non-reasoning. Pathetic!

I wish everyone would read alexvallas’ comment here because it is so true. The ONLY constituents of the Republicans in Congress are the super rich health insurance & pharmaceutical companies. Their insistence that ALL Republicans vote against reform proves they have NO interest of their actual voting constituents. Come November the Republicans who vote against this reform bill should be the ones voted out of office, not the Democrats. These same Republicans would have voted against social security, medicare and civil rights legislation.

I’ve voted Republican about 75% of the time in my life (I’m 72), and made modest cash contributions to Republican candidates, but I have REFUSED to vote Republican or make donations to them in the last 5 years or so — just because of the increasing dependence of the Party in these years on vitriol, rather than logic-based political debate.

Party leaders seem to be ignoring the repeatedly confirmed polling data that the moderates to the Right (such as I am) are increasingly self-classifying themselves as Independents, and increasingly voting the Democratic alternatives.

On the matter of healthcare, name-calling seems to be the rule, even when it makes no sense when one stops to think about it. Fir example, equating it to both Communism and Nazism in the same sentence. Argue why it’s approaching one or the other, but it can’t be both — the two isms are diametrically opposed, as the street battles in Germany in the 1930s attest. So to equate Obama’s policies to both is a both a lie and a bald-faced appeal to the ignorant.

With Independents controlling the long-run future of the Republican Party, the Party is in danger of sowing the whorldwind.

sowing the whorldwind.

Perhaps you meant reaping the whirlwind?

The results of this health care decision will be horrible.

http://www.communislam.com/health-care-266

Great! More blog-whoring to ignore!

@sasquatch08-
So many lies to unpack, and I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.
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First of all, you say it’s impossible to link to or ‘google’ NEJM. That is a lie, and demonstrably so. In fact, in my original post (this is a link, please verify for yourself) I linked to an actual survey published in NEJM that not only refuted the findings in your post, but also showed that you can link to NEJM. Here is the link to the actual NEJM study again- check for yourself. Further, here is a link to the current (3/18/2010) NEJM table of contents (I could do the same for CEN, Nature, Science or JAMA). Anybody can see for themselves that not only can you link to/google NEJM, but that when you do look in the journal, the study you mentioned doesn’t exist. And, for the record, I’m an academic in the general field of biology- I know exactly how journal subscription services work, and what is freely available to the public vs. what is pay-per-view service. You can always look at the table of contents and abstracts of published articles for free. For some articles you may not be able to read the full text, but you can always link to the full text page, where a brief synopsis of the article will be given along with link giving the viewer the option of paying to see full content.
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As a second lie, you say that your ‘survey’ appeared in the NEJM. This assertion was already disproven by maverick2k9 in the original thread, but worth debunking again here as you appear to be doubling down on your lie. What you were describing was not a peer-reviewed survey published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, but rather a non scientific poll peformed by The Medicus Firm and was included in ‘Recruiting Physicians Today’, which is essentially an advertising forum for companies (such as Medicus) that wish to help hospitals hire doctors. As such, the results of the poll were extremely helpful to the stated goals of Medicus- less healthcare professionals on the market means more difficulty for hospitals to hire, which means a greater need for hiring firms such as Medicus. Non-scientific polls included in advertising publications, which further the goals of the companies placing ads in said publications should not be used to argue about the relative merits of national legislation. You apparently know this, since you lied about the nature of the poll and where it was published.
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Your third lie is that you heard about the survey from CNN on March 16. However, I can find no evidence that CNN ran this story, though several Fox programs did run it on March 17. Furthermore, your long-ish original post cited the statistics from the survey down to the correct decimal point. This sounds to me like you did indeed have access to some written form of the report, and chose not to post it because it would have made obvious the dubious nature of what you were pushing as research.