Underplayed Story of the Day: Arizona Drops Children’s Health Insurance Program

Forty years of equating taxes with tyranny and everyone’s suddenly surprised when Government fails to provide basic Government services.

We need to break a few taboos or we’re gonna end up in even deeper $4!^

“Krista K. Long, 35, a social worker near Phoenix whose son, Aidan, 12, is covered by the program, said she decided after the budget passed to marry her boyfriend so that Aidan might be covered under her new husband’s policy.”
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See that’s how pro-marriage policies work.

Dirks the story mentions a tax increase ballot measure that the voters have coming up.

The ironic part here is that if all of these folk end up in the ER when something happens, it will cost the government MUCH more than it would have to keep them insured.

That’s without taking into account how much these kids will suffer b/c their parents won’t be able to afford to take them to the doctor to treat them for simple stuff that may complicate later, or buy them medicine.

Will the “providing health care is a waste of tax payer money” crowd chime in here and make positive statements regarding AZ not providing health care? You know. Because government providing healthcare is “socialist”?

Sidenote… I always wonder about the “moral superiority” syndrome suffered by folks who have lived in gated communities all their lives… Yet they live in a world where they are one company downsizing away from being kicked out of that gated community. Weird.

Perhaps, just perhaps, had the US actually enforced its laws against illegal immigrations, states like Arizona wouldn’t have such deficit shortfalls in the first place. How much does it cost Arizona to incarcerate illegal alien criminals? How much do those crimes committed by illegals cost Arizona? How much does it cost Arizona to provide social services to the offspring of illegal immigrants?

Oh God, here we go again. I would say somethingbut it would not be heard by you.

Uh, here’s a thought. RAISE YOUR FREAKING TAXES. Good God, people, taxes are not socialist, they’re a necessity for a healthy, functioning society.

“Sometimes the fluffy bunny of incredulity zooms around the bend so rapidly that the greyhound of language is left, agog, in the starting cage.” — David Mitchell

The Law of Self-Preservation kicks in, LFB. These guys aren’t going to do what’s right unless they have other non-government (i.e., similar salary & benefits) jobs lined up, which most of ‘em don’t.

I believe $1.3B/year is the number spob wants to hear, which comes from this FAIR study:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters5e3f

FWIW, the Southern Poverty Law Center found significant ties between FAIR and its founder – John Tanton – and white supremacist groups. They put FAIR on their hate group list after their research uncovered this information:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2007/winter/the-teflon-nativists

Discuss…

Think that is bad wait till they get the bill for OBAMA CARE.. but that is the plan.. bankrupt the states is it not? than the FEDERAL government.. and so far the democrats are doing a better job than the Republicans (and I didn’t think that was possible) but in 19 months they have spent DOUBLE and NOW they want the taxpayers to pay for their spending spree.. lots of luck.. they have to catch them first UNDERGROUND ECONOMY.. just like the illegals have it works for them..

Probably no stretch that Arizona treats illegals in the ER, has many in schools, etc. That being said, even in Spoob’s analysis it costs $ to do those things he talks about. Now if he’s ready to raise taxes and/or APPROVE HEALTH CARE REFORM to help control immigration, let us know.

What do you say to the CBO’s analysis that HCR will lower the deficit? Or you just don’t believe it?

This is why the idiocy of state run programs has got to stop. These children should have rights to health care as Americans. What Arizona’s governor thinks shouldn’t matter.

Well spoob, you’ve upgraded your distraction this time. Good Job!
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Never mind that this is mostly a result of crappy governance and a mindless adherence to failed conservative ideas like lower-than-low taxes, deregulation, and giving handouts to business and the wealthiest members of our population. No, it’s about immigration instead.
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However, I’ll indulge your attempt to divert blame this time.
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..had the US actually enforced its laws against illegal immigrations..
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Yes, like the ones covering employment of undocumented persons.
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How much does it cost Arizona to incarcerate illegal alien criminals?
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Immigrants themselves are less likely to commit crimes than native-born Americans. It’s the children of some immigrant groups – not all groups – that are incarcerated at a rate higher than other groups. This may be due to the fact that illegals have to live on the fringes of mainstream society, often in poverty.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Crime
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How much does it cost Arizona to provide social services to the offspring of illegal immigrants?
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Oh, you mean American children?

New Slogan: “Health Insurance is Pro-Marriage”

Good job, lcky9. If you put some chopped-up apple cubes in that comment, you could have a Waldorf salad.

Is this the part you are talking about nflfoghorn?
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Approximately $85 billion of that reduction would be on-budget; other effects related to Social Security revenues and spending as well as spending by the U.S. Postal Service are classified as off-budget. CBO has not completed an estimate of the potential impact of the legislation on discretionary spending, which would be subject to future appropriation action.

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So in other words, this bill does not “save” 138 billion as our dear leaders have suggested or claimed, is that right nflfoghorn? The ”potential impact of the legislation on discretionary spending, which would be subject to future appropriation action”, would indeed potentially cost MORE money.
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Where in the report does it say conclusively we shall save any money? Would you care to cut and paste it here for all of us to see?
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Do you know what “Off-Budget” means, nflfoghorn? Why don’t you take a stab at the meaning of “off-budget, and explain to everyone what that means.
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Oh and this little goody too while you are at it. Maybe with all of your wisdom and knowledge you can also explain this…
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Assuming it becomes law, the Congressional Budget Office expects the IRS will need roughly $10 billion over the next 10 years and nearly 17,000 new employees to meet its new responsibilities under health reform.

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http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/87697-republicans-assail-irs-provision-in-health-care-bill-
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But, the CBO didn’t score the cost of the IRS to police and implement the Mandate for everyone to be forced to buy health insurance. Did you know that nflfoghorn? I guess it is all part of the “off-Buget” stuff that’s just not counted yet. Kinda like how they are spending and counting money twice in order to make this whole thing look good.

This is a travesty and embarrasment to our fine nation. This is the reason I support healthcare reform. History will judge harshly those who oppose health coverage and medical access for poor ick children and unfortunate who have “pre-existing conditions”. Just as history has judged those who opposed Social Security, Medicare, and civil rights. I bet those who opposed civil right really thought they were protecting the constitution as well.

Not one single comment from the right wingers about the actual story here. Not one mention of the poor children without coverage. Just the ususal talking points and CAPS LOCK outrage and lunacy.

I know that Swampland hates any story that has to do with the economy, but I think the underplayed story of the day remains that “the SEC, the lead regulator, and the New York Federal Reserve were given warnings about Lehman’s balance sheet calculations as far back as March 2008.”

–Financial Times via Yves Smith at Huffington Post

It is quite telling that the beltway press corps is more concerned than with the capabilities of the White House social director than the Treasury Secretary.

I keep wondering when folks are going to wake up to the fact that if we want government services we actually have to pay for them! I’m trying to maintain my naive hope that it really is a function of “not getting it” rather than a growing narcissism, disdain for the common good and disregard for the welfare of others in the body public but it gets harder every day.

“Do you know what “Off-Budget” means, nflfoghorn? Why don’t you take a stab at the meaning of “off-budget, and explain to everyone what that means.”
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See: War, Iraq.
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…of which conservatives have recently gotten deficit religion because war expenses are only NOW, under the Obama Admin, part of the federal budget.
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That PLOP! you heard, Rust, is the sound of your lame canard being shot from the sky and falling into the pond.
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Nobody can predict the future (you wouldn’t support HCR anyway but I’m pretending you can) but the CBO offers the best guess of what may happen. Now is the CBO conveniently non-partisan only if/when it supports YOUR positions?

I hear you, nflfoghorn, but if you’re a leader and you don’t have the courage to do what’s right for thousands over your own self interest… Then I hope there’s a very special and creatively painful circle of hell reserved for you.

“I’m pretending you can”
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Predict the future, specifically.

I think that’s why I’m not in politics

“another reminder of how ugly it is out there”

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Please enlighten us Ms Tumulty as to “how ugly it is”
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Is this in relation to the millions up on millions of jobs lost? Is this in relation to an economy which after 14 months has stagnated despite the TRILLIONS of dollars spent by the Obama Administration?
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Maybe I missed the part how GM and Chrysler were bailed out with BILLIONS of tax payer dollars, and you wrote how that should not happen and Obama was wrong to bail them out. But, instead you believed that healthcare was a much more important thing for the Government to concern itself with, you know to help the ‘poor little children’ who could go one day without healthcare.
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How because of the economy is so bad, revenues are way down and social programs suffer. But, you wrote about those bailout, buyout, kickbacks and deals. Do I have that right Ms Tumulty?

It is notable that rusty is far more concerned with bailouts for the auto industry than Wall Street.
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Not only were the auto companies the victims of the reckless, unethical, and often illegal shenanigans of Wall Street that caused the credit crunch that drove the auto companies to the brink of bankruptcy, but the auto companies directly and indirectly employ millions of middle-class Americans, who, through no fault of their own, would be unemployed right now if it were up to rusty.
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But, true to form, rusty is far more upset about economic support for blameless working Americans than for Wall Street fraudsters.

“Oh, you mean American children?”
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In that FAIR study I linked to above (and for the sake of argument, we’ll assume their numbers are spot-on), the largest portion of the $1.3B/year figure they cited was, by far, eduction expenditures, which they pegged at $810M/year. Those numbers did include money spend on US-born children of illegal immigrants – ie, American children. Those US citizens represented 60% of the total student population they included in their study and accounted for $480M in education expenditures. So 37% of the $1.3B FAIR cited is being spent to educate American citizens.
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As for unpaid medical services, which they peg at $400M/year, they didn’t note whether or not some of this was unpaid services provided to the US-born children of illegal immigrants.

Wingnuts and ALL CAPS – a love affair for the ages.

And, to all of my new found Salvationists, those who believe that they are the only ones to care about the poor little children.
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Have you ever had to budget? Have you had to forego something because you simply did not have the money to spend on it.
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Does it stop when the Government taxes everyone at 60%, 70%, 80%? At what point is the limit to what a Government can tax it’s citizens?
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Here is the address for the Shriner’s Hospital in Arizona. If you truly care about the “poor little children”, send them a hundred bucks and put your money where your mouth is.
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Sabbar Shriners
450 South Tucson Blvd.
Tucson, Az 85716

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This is a free hospital. They do not charge a dime for the care of children with illnesses, yes even those ‘poor little children with pre-existing conditions’. I know because I have supported the Shriner’s Hospitals for over 30 years now.
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Shriners Hospitals for Children® provides care for thousands of kids with orthopaedic conditions, burns, spinal cord injuries, and cleft lip and palate, in a family-centered environment with no financial obligation to patients or families. It’s how Shriners Hospitals for Children® has been Changing the World through Caring for Kids since 1922.

I’m trying to maintain my naive hope that it really is a function of “not getting it” rather than a growing narcissism, disdain for the common good and disregard for the welfare of others in the body public but it gets harder every day.
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searchingforagrain,
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Unfortunately, it’s a bit of both. My daughter is a Tea Partier and her postings on Facebook come right off off of the GOP talking points list. Same phrases, same everything. I don’t think a lot of those people really get it. They are just repeating what they have been told.
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Now, the corporate/Wall Street types are a different animal entirely. They’ve GOT theirs (or want to get theirs soon) so they have an interest in keeping ALL options open.
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Many long ago managed to separate personal morals and business practices in order to become successful at that level so this is just a “marketing” issue with them. A little (or a lot of) lying is just a normal business practice. They KNOW what they are saying is not entirely true (or just an out-and-out whopper) but it’s what is needed to get them what they want.
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Are they narcissistic? You betcha. To the extent that they believe in a God, they believe he WANTS them to be filthy rich, and that He’ll let them know if they have gone too far or gotten too greedy. Since he hasn’t said anything to THEM personally, it MUST mean all is OK.
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They actually stopped seeing the world except as it benefits them a long time ago.

“…Does it stop when the Government taxes everyone at 60%, 70%, 80%? At what point is the[re a] limit to what a Government can tax it’s citizens?
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The richest folk (top 2%) got federally taxed @ 50% some 40 years ago. They’re taxed at around 37% now.
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But thank you for your charitable reference. I’m sure donations to Shriners and other worthy charitites will continue.

Rusty,
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I imagine most organized crime families donate large sums to their local charities and hospitals. Makes them feel a lot better about the stuff they do the rest of the time.
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Considering that you are just an unprincipled sh!tbag most of the time here, I see you in the same light.
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I see NOTHING about you I would call “caring”. Lay out your donation portfolio somewhere else. It doesn’t make up for the rest of the crap you say here.

Maybe I missed the part how GM and Chrysler were bailed out with BILLIONS of tax payer dollars, and you wrote how that should not happen and Obama was wrong to bail them out.
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You’re lying, freedumblog. Bush was the one who signed off on the auto bailout…but that was peanuts compared to the bank bailout, which was necessary because of the deregulation craze that started during the Reagan years.
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Imagine that; the economic hardship being felt by most Americans is due to three decades of bad conservative ideas. You guys must be so proud.

“Have you ever had to budget? Have you had to forego something because you simply did not have the money to spend on it.”
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Oh cry me a river! Every time there is a budget problem you folks stick it to the unfortunate of us. Got a Budget problem raise your revenues. Oops that means I would have to do something.

If you truly care about the “poor little children”..
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…you would stop your anti-tax, anti-government insanity and support measures that made their lives better.
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As for the Shriner’s Hospitals, they’re doing what they can with dwindling resources – they’ve had around three billion in investment losses – and are now on track to take payments from Medicaid and insurance…which will saddle them with additional overhead and oversight.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/08/03/story3.html

The real kick in the gut is that Arizona Republicans are still trying to push through a major tax cut for corporations that will make the budget problems even worse.
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I will take Wyoming wingnuts over Arizona wingnuts any day. They are flipping crazy here: combining the nihilism and stupidity of the California wingnut strain with the racism and uterus hate of the the Southern wingnuts.

I’d give some pretty good odds against the passage of that initiative. Voters in Western states where they have the initiative are great at voting in new expenditures while rejecting new taxes. California is the poster child, but I’ll bet Arizona follows the pattern. (I haven’t read the Times story.)

Shorter crusty: “I prefer the feeling of puffed-up moral superiority that comes from ‘charitable giving’ to actually improving people’s lives.”

Dangumit nflfoghorn!

You beat me to the punch!!

The top marginal rate is 35%. The effective rate for most wealthy people is often much lower, through a combination of tax credits, deductions, deferrals, and the lower capital gains tax rates.
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Warren Buffet pointed out that he pays an effective annual income tax rate that is lower than his secretary. He challenged other CEOs and senior executives to release their tax rates and their secretaries’ tax rates, but nobody seems to have taken him up on it.
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The ultra-wealthy in this country (>$500k/year) have pulled a fast one by making sure that any attempts to raise taxes on the ultra-wealthy also hit the upper middle class and moderately wealthy. It is politically inconceivable that we could raise taxes on Warren Buffet or Bill Gates without also raising taxes on their secretaries (who usually make low 6-figure salaries).
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The brilliance of this is that parasitic CEOs who walk away with 8-figure golden parachutes after a few years of underperformance use hard-working and modestly successful professionals (e.g. doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc.) as a shield in the class war against the middle class.

> See that’s how pro-marriage policies work

People getting married, who wouldn’t otherwise, just so they can have health-care coverage, does not strike me as good policy, it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I suggest that you check out tax rates in some European countries. Most of them will an official government site.

I live in Norway, a country of high tax rates. Last year I paid 21 % income tax, which includes access to universal health care and payments for my pension.

Cha-, ah say cha-CHING!, FHMA

We could just throw dollar bills at the children, like they did to that guy with Parkinson’s.

afguy, seeing Rusty as a Godfather is a new insight, thanks. I thought he was some po’ed doctor running a tightwad practice with abused staff in Galt’s Gulch while living off the grid in a bomb shelter with his own garden / canning operation. Maybe he has a capitalist streak after all, albeit an underground one?

Rustyblog. You always comment that hospitals do not turn anyone down, which is great. But you fail to realize that people need help before they get to the hospital.
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Take my sister for example, who thankfully has health insurance, but unfortunately has Lupus. If she ever lost her insurance she could never get affordable insurance because of her pre-existing condition. You say that she could go to the hospital and it’s all ok, but that very well could be a death sentence. Like many diseases, Lupus has to be managed. She sees a specialist doctor 4 times a year and takes a lot of medication to keep her Lupus in remission. If she could only go to a hospital when sick, she would go when her organs start failing.
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You need to think things through more. There are too many holes in our current system. Good people are dying and going broke because of the system we have. It’s not only the dreaded undeserving poor that the right hates.

The “thinking things through” issue is really the key to all of this. It is an extremely complex issue and trying to argue it by cherry picking facts to support one side or the other only obscures any clarity that might be reached.

Unfortunately, Glenn Beck, Rush, and the rest of the screwallyoupoorpeoplepublicans continue to make any real dialogue, about virtually any issue, impossible.

Yes we can still blame Bush, Why, because his lack of vision and his lack of having anything that resembles a brain caused this mess. How you ask. Easy, under his rule we invaded a country that had nothing to do with any attack on America.
Why, for the oil. Not oil for you or me but oil for his friends. He quickly gave Bin Laden exactly what he wanted. For Christian troops to leave Saudi, and for oil to trade for more than 65 per barrel. As for the oil. this high trading value also let big oil off the hook of having to pay royalties to gulf states since it traded above the cut off threshold. Next it caused gas prices to rise to almost 5 dollars a gallon in his final years.

What high gas prices did was cut the taxes coming into state funds. How, again easy. States get about 40 cents tax from each gallon sold. We use about 380 million gallons per day in America. When gas went from 1.50 to 5.00 the states still got the same .40 cents. but what happened to the taxes that would have been earned when the 3.50 we spent on higher gas instead of spending it on retail goods. For every gallon of gas sold at the higher rate the state lost depending on your state about 8 cents per dollar or about .30 cents. But it does not stop there. Each dollar spent in retail rolls over from 5 to 10 times meaning for every gallon of gas sold the state lost from 1.50 to 3.00 from the lack of retail sales. The roll over happens because you buy goods at a store which gives someone a job, which means someone else delivers the goods and someone else makes the product and someone else supplies the core product that makes the good, etc. Now we take those 380 million gallons a day of gas sold and multiply that by lets say 2 dollars (between the 1.50 and 3.00) from lost retail sales and you get almost 800 million dollars a day in lost tax revenue. Or almost 30 billion a month in lost sales tax revenue. or half a trillion in a year. But fear not the states still got their 40 cents per gallon or about 200 million a day or 6 billion a month or 75 billion for the same year.. now you do the math. instead of the states earning half a trillion in overall sales tax they made 75 billion. of course budgets were set on the normal expected half trillion and you wonder why the states are broke. all the states the red and the blue and the purple. again fear not, big oil banked and average of 15 billion a quarter in pure extra profit. and you picked up the tab. and now we are paying out the ass in lost services and schools are broke, cities are broke and states are broke. But like Rush says, Roosevelt is dead, his policies mad still live on but we are in the process of doing something about that… and they did. Not only did Bush take us from a 300 billion dollar surplus to a record deficits and from a 5 trillion dollar debt to a 10 trillion dollar debt he left Obama with a compounded problem now that the bill is coming due.

Simple math. The average cost for 1 person to have medical coverage is about 300 per month or 3600.00 per year. Plus a co-pay every time the visit the doctor. And a deductible of about 3,000.00 before insurance pays dime one. So if you do get sick your out about 7 grand before insurance pays, then they pay only 80 percent if the doctor is in your group, if not they pay maybe 50 percent. No what would happen if you could join medicare. For starters tens of millions of mostly healthy young people paying into medicare would float its boat back up for years. Currently you pay about 1.5 percent from your paycheck for medicare and you do not get to use it. So lets up that to a dime per dollar. You ear 10 bucks an hour you pay a dollar an hour or about 8 bucks a day or 40 dollars a week or 160.00 a month or less than 2 grand a year. you already saved 1600.00 to spend in the local economy. And you have no co-pays and no deductible. So you are ahead and you create jobs by spending your savings on durable goods. And that 1600 rolls over 5 to 10 times creating jobs as it goes. so your 1600 dollars becomes about 8 thousand dollars a year which is taxed about 800 dollars as it goes creating more sales tax revenue for your state , county and city. Which means they have money to spend on services without having to raise other taxes. So which would you prefer do do, pay an insurance company to deny your claims a few times before they decide to pay or and meet deductibles and co pays or just pay the Feds and get to use free medical when and if you need it… or would you like to keep paying the CEO of big med a 400k a day bonus. Of course Rush and Hannity and the rest would have to pay 10 percent of their tens of millions of dollar paycheck to lie to you into medicare as well. and you wonder why they are against it.

I must be heartless then, because my personal belief is that “no” benefits of any kind should be given to anyone here illegally, adult and/or child, male or female. If there are children involved who were born in US from parents who are here illegally, they, too, should not receive any benefits. And no American should feel guilty about it. The illegals take that risk upon themselves when they sneak in to US.

The biggest single budgetary problem for border states is their providing benefits to illegals and their children. Factor out those costs and those states would not be in the financial mess they are currently in.

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