In the Arena

Right-Wing Nervous Breakdown

This is becoming a rather difficult week for the wingnuts. Glenn Greenwald details the insanity prevailing among the neocons on the question of Israeli settlements. But the froth-at-the-mouth-rabidity seems to be increasing across the board…and the reason for this is the probable passage of the health care reform legislation on Sunday in the House of Representatives.

We’ve been so caught up in the day-to-day shenanigans, on both sides, that the truly historic nature of the moment has been missed. A great American injustice is about to be addressed. More than 32 million people, who lack health insurance now and live in constant fear of chronic disease will be helped–not immediately, but gradually, as the provisions of the bill kick in. Countless millions of others will never have to worry about losing their insurance coverage because of a pre-existing condition or because chronic illness has caused them to exceed their lifetime “cap.” A system of exchanges will allow individuals and small business seeking health insurance to enter the market with the same power as major corporations. This is a big deal.

And a big problem for Republicans who, yet again, have chosen not to participate in the extension of a basic human right to all Americans–the right to health care–a right that is common throughout the rest of the civilized world. There is talk of the GOP starting a “Repeal Health Care” campaign as soon as the bill is passed, but that’s not a likely scenario. Indeed, Democrats are salivating over the notion of such a campaign. They’ll be able to run for Congress next fall, saying: “We made sure no one can ever take away your health insurance…and the Republicans want to repeal that right.”

To be sure, this bill is not perfect…and, in some ways, quite awful. But it is the first step in what will undoubtedly be a continuing process to rationalize the American health care system. Medical malparactice reform will have to be addressed sooner or later. The bill unnecessarily expands Medicaid, as Karen has reported extensively, a program that really should be abolished–Medicaid recipients should receive their health care through the exchanges (as should senior citizens for that matter, but that may come in time, too). Indeed, over time, I’d hope that we can move to a system that relieves employers of the financial burden of providing health insurance…and also to a system that pays doctors salaries, rather than a fee for every service they perform.

But, in political terms–and despite the smokescreen wafted by the Republican opposition–passage of this bill will be a triumph for Barack Obama and the Democratic Party. If it passes. And that looming triumph is at the heart of what’s driving Republicans crazy this week.

Related Topics: Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Health Care, Uncategorized
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  • deconstructiva

    Joe, as you’d know, just looking at the comments here is proof enough of the breakdown. If the same tired RW commenters’ TP’s here are getting a little rusty, I’d ask if they really believe HCR will doom the D’s this fall. If (when) they say yes, then why don’t they favor passing it thinking this will benefit the R’s? Or if they weasel out and claim it’s a no-win D scenario, then why not pass it anyway (just to flip R’s the bird) and fix it later?
    .
    Of course, Joe, if you want to see RWTP replies then just link this at Drudge and sit back. Why let lovely Amy have all the fun with hundreds of comments? (of course, her Beckistan post was linked at Huff Post, not Drudge)

  • square1

    This is what happens when you don’t investigate and don’t impeach.

    It’s called boundries. As with toddlers, so with neocons. Someone needs to make Obama sit down and watch Supernanny.

  • http://alexianguyen.wordpress.com alexianguyen

    If the Republican Party has given Israel more than 114B dollars and continue to give them money, then they can afford to give money to the American for health care.

  • iggydwonderllama

    “The bill unnecessarily expands Medicaid, as Karen has reported extensively, a program that really should be abolished–Medicaid recipients should receive their health care through the exchanges (as should senior citizens for that matter, but that may come in time, too).”

    Calling for the elimination of Medicaid is quite a strong position. That seems more worthy to be the thesis of an article than an aside without even a fully devoted paragraph. Have you written an article to this effect that I missed?

  • Joe Klein

    I’ve written several articles in support of the Wyden-Bennett Healthy Americans Act–which I believe was the best piece of health care legislation available this year–and which abolished Medicaid, granting the poor access to the same health care choices as the rest of us, including members of Congress, would have. As Wyden says, “Medicaid is apartheid.”

  • stuartzechman

    Joe Klein:

    Medicaid recipients should receive their health care through the exchanges (as should senior citizens for that matter, but that may come in time, too).

    So your problem with Senate bill is that it doesn’t go far enough to privatize Medicare?
    .
    You’re back to warbling that old DLC tune?
    .
    The bill just isn’t as radically centrist as you would have liked, Joe Klein?
    .
    It’s good to know that New Democrats didn’t get literally every single item on their health care Christmas wish list out of this legislation, I guess.
    .
    Amazing.
    .
    Well, given what a colossal defeat this legislation and the whole process is for liberals and our agenda going forward, I suppose I’d be saying the same thing, if I were in your comfortable shoes, Joe Klein.
    .
    You guys –centrists– won almost the whole thing, it has to be admitted. Liberals were told to suck on it, and our elected representatives did. Our people voted for anything like they were told to, and pawns they proved to be. You won big-time over liberals. You made us look like f*cking retards –your guy literally called us f*cking retards, and then we voted for his legislation and got nothing. Well, not nothing –we got threatened with being held responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people if we dared try to negotiate for something better. That’s what we got.
    .
    We must be the biggest losers of all time, then. You won, we lost, Joe Klein.
    .
    It’s just too bad that your guys couldn’t get the 20 Republican votes that Bob Dole and Tom Daschle promised you’d be able to pick up if New Democrats bought the Daschle/Dole reform plan and tried to sell it to the country. You guys still have to work on the problem of your ideas being really, really unpopular with people, both in sales and in practice, both to the left and the right. Ordinary people ended up trusting your line even less. I guess that you got your legislation in the end, though.
    .
    Too bad for us both, I suppose, since Democrats as a whole will lose big in elections to come, now that it’s clear that their genius plan failed to put the blame for this thing in both parties’ laps.
    .
    It’s pretty much win-win for your side, Joe Klein. Or, I guess it’s lose-lose for liberals, to put it more accurately.
    .
    Who knows, though…maybe one day soon you’ll be able to put a total Medicare privatization package together, and somehow be able to twist enough f*cking retards’ arms to get it passed, as unpopular and ultimately disastrous a policy as that will be.
    .
    It could happen, Joe Klein. The passage of this legislation proves that someday it just might happen that way.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks so much for responding to commentary with clarification, Joe Klein, it is always greatly appreciated.

  • iggydwonderllama

    Yes, thank you for responding. I hope I didn’t come off as snarky, because I actually am interested in reading your argument and learning something from it, and will attempt to do so if I can find it.

  • jbaustian

    Joe Klein writes: “This is becoming a rather difficult week for the wingnuts.” I had to check his definition, since “wingnut” refers to those with radical or extreme views — and so Joe is claiming that a majority of the American electorate is radical or extreme.

    Joe may want to check his copy of the Constitution too, since health care is not mentioned among the Bill of Rights. It could be included in the old constitution of the Soviet Union, however.

    At least he admits this bill is terrible — which makes his cheerleading for it all the more puzzling.

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    I wouldn’t rule out a repeal movement. They still are asking for a birf certificate, after all.

  • jbaustian

    The small number individuals who question the validity of Obama’s birth certificate are, from what I can tell, a tiny fraction of the conspiracy theorists on the left who thought Bush 43 had something to do with the attack on the World Trade Centers. Or the much larger number of wackos who think carbon dioxide is destroying the environment.

  • iggydwonderllama

    I can’t readily turn up the articles with web searches, so at the moment I’m going to assume they are in dead-tree format only, and possibly try to look them up in my parent’s collection next time I visit.
    .
    If you don’t mind, can you summarize your findings on how much subsidy would be necessary for current Medicaid recipients to afford exchange plans? I’m guessing close to the full cost? If so, is that still cheaper than Medicaid?

  • destor23

    Though the Wyden plan is an interesting one to support because it has people buying their own insurance with pre-tax dollars. It eliminates the employer tax exemption which means folks would be on their own to purchase. Costs would be lower because people would be pooled but losing the tax exemption would be a big blow. Why should people pay taxes on the money they put towards health care?

  • 3xfire3

    JOE,
    Only you in your typical dishonest way of reporting could bring 2 totally unrelated stories together in 1 article as a way to push your own political agenda.
    Glenn Greenwald’s views on Israel have nothing to do with American HCR. You only bring up this nuts views on Israel to try and distort the Republicans views on HCR.
    Republicans have honest concerns about Obamacare and its approach to HCR. Both Parties are for HCR. The difference is in the approach to reform. Had President Obama lived up to his statements made during the election and brought both the Democrats and Republicans together to work on HCR a year ago, we would be passing HCR that would be supported by both parties and a large majority of the American people.

  • destor23

    Yeah that’s pretty bogus about Medicare. For one thing, Medicare is a service that people have ALREADY PAID FOR throughout their working lives. How are seniors who should be retired, supposed to pay insurance premiums? The whole point is you prepay while you’re working and your income is higher so that you’re taken care of in your old age without all the bills.

    If anything, Medicare is too stingy.

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    Right. Michele Bachmann. JD Hayworth. The Atty General in VA. Just a bunch of nerds hiding in the basement playing Dungeons and Dragons. In no way do they represent the Republican Party.

  • iggydwonderllama

    Wait, are we talking Medicaid or Medicare here? (I acknowledge that someone who wants to privatize one might very well want to privatize both, of course.) Because you make a good argument re Medicare. I also think privatizing Medicaid is a bad idea, but it seems to me the reasons are different.

  • sevenoaks07

    The HRC looks to being on track for a win. Look to Republicans to huff and puff and then find another issue: immigration? I don’t see gasbags and the know-it-alls in Washington ever getting a bit tired of repeating slogans. Surprisingly MSNBC had a typical two man panel of purveyors of talking points dishing our tired platitudes. That they continue this, and add to it the self-important bs purveyed by Joe Scar and Peggy Noo(lehead)an show that no matter where the country is headed the bloviators in Washington will still dwell on process:

  • http://keironjackman.wordpress.com keiron Jackman

    You know, I am a conservative republican and even I know that the industry itself is partly if not mostly to blame. We cannot simply say government runned,because it will be no more government runned as the army is government runned, – private contracting companies do all the work. Let’s be real, I came across this article that details why the industry is at fault because of their business structure:

    http://bit.ly/91CKGN

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Oh, good grief. Do you really need a history lesson in expenditures to Israel under GOP, Democratic administrations and GOP, Democratic controlled Congresses? I’ve said it many times and will say it many more: Stop giving the Democratic Party a facade to hide behind! They are equally complicit in the ongoing expansion of Israel. How else would you get House votes of 410-8, such as that for House Res. 391?
    .
    Bear in mind, for example, that the 94th US Congress (1976) was fully controlled by the Democratic Party in both houses and was responsible for elevating Israel’s aid levels to a position unrivaled by any other aid recipient, a position that Israel has enjoyed uninterrupted since that year.
    .
    What about this recollection from Republican Secretary of State George P. Schultz:

    In early December [1982]…I got word that a supplement was moving through the lame-duck session of Congress to provide a $250 million increase in the amount of US military assistance granted to Israel: this in the face of Israel’s invasion of Lebanon, its use of cluster bombs, and its complicity in the Sabra and Shatila massacres! We fought the supplement and fought it hard. President Reagan and I weighed in personally, making numerous calls to senators and congressmen. On December 9, I added a formal letter of opposition saying that the supplement appeared “to endorse and reward Israel’s policies.” Foreign Minister Shamir called President Reagan’s opposition “an unfriendly act” and said that “it endangers the peace process.” The supplement sailed right by us and was approved by Congress as though President Reagan and I had not even been there. I was astonished and disheartened. This brought home to me vividly Israel’s leverage in our Congress. I saw that I must work carefully with the Israelis if I was to have any handle on congressional action that might affect Israel and if I was to maintain congressional support for my efforts to make progress in the Middle East.

    .
    On March 7, 1991, an amendment to reduce aid to Israel by a mere $650 million was defeated in the House by a vote of 397-24. That’s a lot of Republicans (397) in a Democratic controlled Congress.
    .
    While I will cede to you the disparity in support for Israel between American conservatives and liberals, I flatly reject any assertion that there is a disparity between the Republican and Democratic Party.

  • 3xfire3

    Exiled,
    There you go again using facts. Facts don’t normally fit in JKs articles or Liberal talking points
    Do you have any idea why JK linked Israel and HCR in the same article? It makes no sense to me.

  • 3xfire3

    jbaustian,
    Good Post.
    Cookie Puss doesn’t understand facts. You speak the truth. She throws out BS.
    That’s what Liberals on this site usually do. They also like to call names and demonize anyone who does not share their views. You give them facts and they claim you are insulting them. It’s a no win situation.

  • 3xfire3

    Kind of like the American Public. They will remember in November.

  • 3xfire3

    And you think Government structure will be any better.
    They screw up everything they touch.
    Reform without direct Government control is the only thing that would work.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    3xfire~
    .
    I have several points.
    .
    First, I have no beef with Joe Klein. I don’t much care for his domestic politics, but he’s nothing if not knowledgeable. I respect his foreign policy views and appreciate his willingness to wade into the nuances of international affairs rather than merely regurgitate depthless conventional analyses.
    .
    Second, I would venture a guess that you and I disgree completely on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. My point was not to defend Republicans on the matter, but rather to illustrate the sheer absurdity of both parties when it comes to their deference to Israeli wishes.
    .
    Third, I believe the linkage between Israel and health-insurance reform was simply a matter of Joe Klein pointing out the inaccuracies upon which the far right-wing sometimes base their positions. On both Israel and health-care, the far right engages in mistruths to further their agenda. Before you become offended, know that I also believe the left is guilty of this. It’s pretty much a mainstay of American politics.
    .
    Finally, while you lament liberal talking-points, are you not presenting a rather absurd talking-point yourself in suggesting that JK and liberals as a whole lack any semblance of factuality in their arguments?

  • kevin

    Exiled, I know we don’t agree on much domestically, but once again, I agree with you completely on the Israeli-Palestinian mess.

  • kevin

    A full 58% of Republicans have said they either don’t think Obama was born in the United States (28%) or aren’t sure (30%).
    .
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.html
    .
    Go find me a poll that says more than 58% of Democrats think George W. Bush was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Go ahead.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Kevin~
    .
    That’s because issues such as the role of government or morality are highly subjective. Intelligent people can disagree based on their perspectives. Whereas, one cannot establish their own set of facts as to the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the stated intentions of Israeli leaders, or the level of economic, military, or diplomatic aid to Israel.

  • diecash1

    Joe may want to check his copy of the Constitution too, since health care is not mentioned among the Bill of Rights. It could be included in the old constitution of the Soviet Union, however

    When you read the Bill of Rights did you see, public schools, roads, municipal services like water and sanitation, airports, etc. mentioned in it? No? Why then would those things be provided for by the government through taxes? Maybe because we live in a modern country, not Somalia. The Bill of Rights does not contain an exhaustive summary of all of our rights either.
    ..
    I suppose you are referring to this JK quote, specifically:

    a basic human right to all Americans–the right to health care–a right that is common throughout the rest of the civilized world.

    Do you realize that health care is a right in every other country in the modern world just like roads and public schools are here? Why should health care be any different?

  • diecash1

    Kevin — Stop it already. 3x and jbaustian are busily exchanging opinions, not fact though they may not know the difference.

  • stuartzechman

    Wait, are we talking Medicaid or Medicare here?
    .
    Joe in his (perhaps cocktail induced) victory glee has forgotten to keep a lid on what the Administration’s assurances of future “health care fixes” probably mean: the Medicare and Social Security privatization dreams of his fellow Third Way Democrats.
    .
    When Joe says:

    Medicaid recipients should receive their health care through the exchanges (as should senior citizens for that matter, but that may come in time, too).

    , he means “senior citizens” as in “Medicare beneficiaries.”
    .
    They’ve succeeded in the first part of their plans, the Third Way “private/public partnership” of their version of universal coverage, one in which the path to a public system or real market controls has been probably detoured permanently.
    .
    Now come the “fixes.”
    .
    Don’t take my word for it, this is what Joe said himself in 2005 about the “Incredible Shrinking Democrats” and their awful refusal to go along with Bush’s privatization schemes ( link to Joe Klein’s Medicare privatization advocacy )

    The Incredible Shrinking Democrats
    .
    Bush’s private investment accounts, combined with a reduction in benefits or higher taxes, is one way for baby boomers to lighten the burden of our retirement upon our children. There are other ways, but none without pain. A far more profitable—and absolutely necessary—reform would be a market-oriented overhaul of Medicare, but Dems just say no to that too.
    .
    The current Democrats resemble nothing so much as the Republicans during the 25 years after Roosevelt’s death—negative, defensive, intellectually feeble, a permanent minority.
    .
    All of which leaves Bush with a lot of room to lead. His speech last week was striking…It could easily have been delivered by a New Democrat
    .
    There is, then, a profitable discussion to be had between “ownership” Republicans and “third-way” Democrats about transforming the stagnant bureaucracies of the Industrial Age. Republicans refused to play during the Clinton presidency; the stunned and churlish Democrats are refusing now. It will be interesting to see whether Bush, at the height of his powers, actually tries to break the impasse.

    See?
    .
    According to the New Democrats, an absolutely necessary (and profitable!) health care “reform would be a market-oriented overhaul of Medicare
    .
    To Joe Klein’s (and the Third Way) mind, this is a glorious victory, even if he and Tom Friedman didn’t get the privatized Medicare they were hoping for…yet.
    .
    That’s why he let the cat out of the bag a little early. We liberals weren’t really supposed to find out what that health care “fix” the Democratic leadership has promised us is actually supposed to entail.
    .
    Then again, liberals were so incompetent at negotiation during this entire process that they made Max Baucus look like Josef Stalin. The centrists have good cause to celebrate their victory over liberals, so it might not be that dangerous to let the word prematurely leak out after all.

  • diecash1

    Kind of like the American Public. They will remember in November.

    You mean they will remember that Republicans didn’t want to reform HC, preferring the status quo? Or that they put forth utterly stupid ideas like the Ryan “Roadmap” to nowhrere? Yeah, you can bet that voters will remember that.

  • stuartzechman

    Joe Klein isn’t a reporter, he’s a columnist, which means he gets paid by Time Magazine to influence peoples’ opinions of their government and politics.
    .
    A columnist is held to different standards than a reporter when it comes to telling the whole truth. That’s the press corps’ theory of how it should work, not mine.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    diecash~
    .
    Without refuting your larger point that access to health-care is ideal, even a necessary aspect of modern societies, I must take issue with the claim of it as an inherent right. Nor do I see the existence of roads as an inherent right. Government provided services are just that, services, not necessarily rights.
    .

  • kevin

    Oh, I really hope voters remember in November. One party worked to make pre-existing conditions a thing of the past and to reduce health care costs, and the other stood in the way.

  • aleigh97

    “And a big problem for Republicans who, yet again, have chosen not to participate in the extension of a basic human right to all Americans–the right to health care–a right that is common throughout the rest of the civilized world.”

    oooohhh…so that’s why anyone and everyone who can possibly do so (aka ‘the civilized world’ and, you know, the occasional head of state) come to the united states to have medical procedures done. guess that whole ‘right to health care’ thing hasn’t been working out too well for them in their civilized neck of the woods. you people are flipping unbelievable.

  • diecash1

    Exiled — In the sense that the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are real and actual rights, it’s not. My contention is that health care and those government services I listed previously are all part of the covenant of a modern society and should be made available to all.

  • kevin

    You may think the measure of success of the American health care system is whether it appeals to Saudi princes and Japanese billionaires. I, however, think the measure of success of the American health care system is whether it works for all Americans.
    .
    And yes, the right to health care has been working out quite well in other countries. They pay a lot less and live a lot longer.
    .
    http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php

  • ohiolib

    Yes, diecash, but poking the trolls is amusing.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    So, you’re going with this definition of a right:
    a moral, ethical, or legal principle considered as an underlying cause of truth, justice, morality, or ethics.
    .
    Essentially, that which is just, rather than that which is inherent or absolute.

  • diecash1

    That definition will do. I believe that it is (or should be) part of the social contract.
    ..
    On the subject of rights, is any right really absolute? When looking back at history, it would not seem so. If some rights were absolute and conferred upon us from God, would they be so easily taken away by man?

  • jbaustian

    Kevin: I thought it amusing the poll you quote, with 58% of Republicans doubting the Obama birth certificate, was a poll commissioned by the Daily Kos!
    .
    77 percent of Americans overall think the president is actually an American.
    .
    Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 7/27-30. All adults. MoE 2%

  • jbaustian

    Exiled_At_Home…:
    Thank you for pointing out the differences between rights and services. Yes, roads, schools, hospitals, etc., are government services — they are not rights. While I prefer a smaller government rather than a larger one, my principle objections arise when politicians think they must take away my rights in order to provide me with services.
    .
    If the constitutional limits on the powers of the federal government can be contravened whenever one party gains a temporary advantage, then where is the limit? How much government power is enough, how much is too much? What recourse is there when the government is so huge and so expensive? And then, when the sum of funded and unfunded entitlement obligations already exceeds $110 TRILLION, it just seems insane to create another very expensive entitlement.
    .
    Furthermore, when it is necessary to bribe, cajole, and threaten congressmen to pass this thing, when public opinion is so opposed, I just don’t see how our democracy can survive this level of corruption.
    .

  • diecash1

    If the constitutional limits on the powers of the federal government can be contravened whenever one party gains a temporary advantage, then where is the limit?

    How precisely is our constitution being violated by this yet-to-be-passed law?

    Furthermore, when it is necessary to bribe, cajole, and threaten congressmen to pass this thing, when public opinion is so opposed, I just don’t see how our democracy can survive this level of corruption.

    You mean like was done with the Medicare Drug bill? They don’t call it sausage making because it’s a pretty process, btw. The difference is that we have better access to information now versus even 10-15 years ago so we discover egregious actions much sooner.

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    So… Why does Rush Lim-bloat go down to Costa Rica for his care? Why does Rush hate America…?

  • jbaustian

    diecash1: you ask how the Constitution is being violated by this bill. Good question.

    It could be challenged under Article I, Section 8, Powers of Congress. Requiring every citizen to buy health insurance seems like overreach.
    .
    The Tenth Amendment. “powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Clearly this bill goes beyond the normal division of powers under the federal system.
    .
    I’m no lawyer, nor a constitutional expert. But since we have a president who claimed to be a constitutional expert, it seems odd that he cares so little for whether this particular bill passes constitutional muster. He seems to care only that it be passed — much in the way that someone who owes a bookie or loan shark does not care where he gets the money, only that if he doesn’t pay off then bad things will happen. (What can the SEIU do to him, I wonder?)

  • kevin

    Why is that amusing? The poll was commissioned by Daily Kos, but it was run by Research 2000, a respected nonpartisan polling outfit.
    .
    Here’s another poll that finds 44% of Republicans think Obama wasn’t born in America:
    http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/surveys/2009_Archives/PPP_Release_National_819513.pdf

  • jbaustian

    Kevin: thanks for responding with another poll by another left-wing polling organization. Of Public Policy Polling it has been said:
    1) that it uses an automated voice response methodology, which has been criticized by Democrats when Survey USA and Rasmussen Reports use it and the results paint Obama and the Democrats in a bad light.
    2) the firm’s clients are exclusively Democratic-affiliated organizations, and
    3) surveys on health care reform have included polarizing questions such as if respondents think President Barack Obama is the “Antichrist”.

    Instead of going down the list of countries where Obama might have been born, what would have been wrong about asking, simply, “Do you think Barack Obama is a native-born citizen of the United States?” I could have come up with better questions, and better-worded questions. What is up with that Medicare question: “Do you think the government should stay out of Medicare? If yes, press 1. If no, press 2.”

    It is interesting to note, however, that by a 40 to 47 percent margin, in August 2009 Americans were opposed to the health care bill then being considered. Since then, the more they have learned about it, the greater their opposition.

  • russpoter

    JOE, YOU’VE LOST YOUR MIND

    You dump on GWB non-stop for eight years about abuse of power — then give a pass to your pals, the STEAL-O-CRATS?

    Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t-e?

    START OVER — LIARS AND STEAL-O-CRATS EVERYWHERE

  • diecash1

    Please continue to rant illogically and type in all caps a bit more as it makes your argument for you, though not in the way you may have intended.

  • kevin

    Well, those are the only two polls I could find that asked the question. I’m sorry you don’t like them, pumpkin. If you can find another poll that asks that questions of Republicans, fine, post it here and offer evidence to the contrary.
    .
    It is interesting to note, however, that by a 40 to 47 percent margin, in August 2009 Americans were opposed to the health care bill then being considered. Since then, the more they have learned about it, the greater their opposition.
    .
    Yes, it is interesting, if by interesting, you mean “not true.”
    .
    The latest Gallup poll has it at 45% favor, 48% oppose. (I can’t wait to hear how Gallup is an evil left-wing front, just like every other poll you don’t like.)
    .
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/126521/Favor-Oppose-Obama-Healthcare-Plan.aspx
    .
    And the more people learn about what’s actually in the bill — as opposed to the right-wing lies and distortions — the more they like it.
    .
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/is_health-care_reform_popular.html

  • jbaustian

    Kevin, the 40 to 47 percent opposed result was in the PPP poll you linked to. If you don’t think it was “true”, then the numbers questioning whether Obama was native-born are also not “true”, since the questions were asked to the exact same set of respondents.

  • allthingsinaname

    Seems there are at least 32 million Americans who can’t get it done here. Oh that is right, they don’t have the money.
    .
    Best Health Care in the world; for the wealthy.
    .
    Send us you wealthy! Americans, go to Mexico.

  • brookd

    Right wing nut:

    Anyone with a working calculator that concludes accurately we are already paying 50% of our income to politicians.

    Anyone who evaluates the preview of this health reform bill in MA and concludes, like their governor, this is a bad, bad, unsustainable idea.

    Anyone who doesn’t want to see their neighbor thrown in jail for failing to pay a health insurance premium.

    Anyone who has visited a UK hospital where the doctors SALARIES ARE PAID by the NHS and been shocked at the conditions we encountered there.

    Anyone who believes our citizens who want government-mandated health care, carbon taxes, and endless programs to “fix education” should be the ones to actually pay for all this stuff. Now, that is our idea of a progressive tax.

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  • http://pauldefoe.wordpress.com pauldefoe

    Anyone who doesn’t want to see their neighbor thrown in jail for failing to pay a health insurance premium.Archive

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