In the Arena

Kicking Sand

As Michael Scherer writes below, Israel’s government was over-the-top outrageous in welcoming Vice President Joe Biden with the news that it would construct 1600 new illegal housing units on land the Palestinians consider their future capital in East Jerusalem. This is an act with both short- and long-term consequences. The short-term consequence has to do with the “proximity talks” just getting underway, with the U.S. shuttling between Israeli and Palestinian negotiators: this sends a clear signal that Israel does not intend to negotiate in good faith, certainly not when it comes to the territory in East Jerusalem it conquered in 1967. This is the second time in recent weeks that the Israelis have poked a finger in the eye of the Palestinians–the first was the unilateral decision to declare its intent to “improve” several religious sites–including the Patriarch’s Tomb, site of a famous massacre of Palestinians by the Israeli settler Baruch Goldstein–on Palestinian lands, over which Israel has no legal jurisdiction. The timing of these stunts is extremely significant, and depressing.

But there is a larger, long-term issue here: this is a calculated insult, directed at the President of the United States. It is Bibi Netanyahu kicking sand in Barack Obama’s face. This is becoming a dangerous pattern for Obama: the Chinese treated him rudely when he visited in November and again at the Copenhagen Climate Talks. The Iranians treated his attempts to negotiate with disdain and hyperbole (although the Iranians, like the North Koreans, traffick in crazy threats with no basis in reality). And now Israel, an allegedly close U.S. ally, is doing it, too.

ADD HERE: According to this morning’s New York Times, Netanyahu may have been taken by surprise by the announcement of new construction in East Jerusalem–a decision made by the Minister of the Interior, who is a member of the right-wing religious Shas party. Still, the announcement was distributed by the Prime Minister’s office…and it is Netanyahu’s right-wing coalition government.

The question is, how will Obama respond?

And if he doesn’t, what will the world’s malefactors conclude about his strength? The President has shown his willingness to use force–in Afghanistan and elsewhere against our Al Qaeda enemy. But he has not shown an ability to use power–which, in Leslie Gelb’s apt definition, is the ability to get other people to do things they don’t want to do. Knowing how to use power is more complicated, and requires more skill, than a simple decision to use force. Recent events in Pakistan–the arrests of Taliban leaders–indicate that the President and his team have used their power with quiet effectiveness in that benighted country. Israel is a tougher case. The President has tools to use against the Israelis–billions of dollars in aid each year, for starters–but the powerful Jewish lobbying group AIPAC, which has its Washington convention in a few weeks, and the even more powerful evangelical community will go berserk if he chooses to use them. The neoconservatives are salivating over the prospect of a public Israel-Obama breach, especially in an election year; Netanyahu, who understands American politics well, knows the potential political cost if Obama takes the bait.

On the other hand, if the President does not respond to this insult, the rest of the world–especially the Islamic world–may begin to see him as a weakling. (Just as it will if he fails to get sanctions against Iran through the U.N. Security Council). The President has other problems right now–health care, a looming Congressional election, the sense that he’s spending too much time on foreign policy as it is (an ill-advised trip to Indonesia is looming)–but Benjamin Netanyahu has thrown down a gauntlet and it will be interesting to see what, if anything, Barack Obama does about it. .

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  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    If Obama should choose to go the route of confrontation, one of two things will happen. As was the case for Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II, his efforts will be futile, Congressional outrage at his insolence towards the special relationship will be deafening, and ultimately he will acquiesce to Israeli demands. On the other hand, were he to pursue balance despite all the the pressures to remain decidely pro-Israel coming from Congress, from the influential think tanks, such as WINEP, AEI, Hudson Institute, Saban Center, from the lobby, which includes AIPAC, ADL, Conference of Presidents, and Zionist Organization of America, from op-ed columnists, neoconservatives, Republicans, Democrats, and Israel, then, well, Obama will be a one-term president. Sh*t, I just depressed myself. I’m moving to Europe.

  • pafro

    I bet it wouldn’t be too hard to find a few major Israeli spies, working in the U.S. I bet there are a number who are known and tolerated. Be a shame if four or five of them were arrested for espionage right before the big AIPAC thing.

  • stuartzechman

    Jane Harmon?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    At least 200 were arrested and quietly deported since 2001. We don’t exactly tolerate them, but we don’t protest either.

  • kbanginmotown

    …it’d be a real shame if that next aid check for $2B bounced…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    With the military and civilian aid to we give to Israel and the obvious fact that settlers moving into lands accepted be outside of the territory of Israel, threatening to cut off aid should work.

    The threat to peace is far too great.

    The last thing anybody wants is a legitimate reason for Palestinian terrorists to do highly illegitimate things like suicide bombings.

    Ignore AIPAC and the Evangelicals and let them know that aid will be cut immediately if Israel goes into land agreed upon that is not theirs.

    Being the president sometimes is a terrible job, isn’t it?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Unfortunately, I don’t really think withholding aid will be that effective at this point. $2 billion is a lot of incentive to behave appropriately, sure, but Israel is hardly dependent on it. Israel now has a vibrant economy, well-established military, research, and medical industries, billions in tourism profit, etc. etc. Where the real game changer is, I believe, is in intelligence information we give them, priority weapons contracts, and diplomatic cover with the international community. Were we to fully normalize relations with Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon, withhold all aid (including military), and perhaps come out and affirm the Goldstone Report and support it, and other initiatives, at the UN, then maybe we can begin to curb the pariah propensities of Israel.

  • towandavt

    Exactly, time to cut them off!

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    See 1.2.
    ~
    Might I add, though, that threatening to cut off aid has been done before, by Bush I. To no avail. We’ve even deducted the amount that Israel put into illegal settlements, under Bush II, and that didn’t do anything. No, Patrick, I believe we’ll need to go far beyond the aid issue to rein in Israel.

  • towandavt

    No more threats. Cut them off! Do it now!

  • mni08

    The surprising thing about your write up is that you are expecting Obama to respond in the old traditional Washington way. He will not take the bait either way and will wait for the right time to strike Benjamin Netanyahu and watch as he implodes at home (Israel). Be it in Iraq, Iran or reaching out to the the Muslim world, Obama has used non neo con methods which has defined US politics in recent times. Will Obama respond? The answer is yes. But in what manner we have to wait and see.

    I have seen this drama before, people should ask Hillary Clinton or John McCain about underestimating Barack Obama. Those questioning his strength should see what he is doing to Taliban and Al-Qaeda in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. As for the Chinese they got the message and went crazy with the US supply of armaments to Taiwan. As for Netanyahu, he may soon learn what it takes to underestimate the president of the US.

  • formerlyjames

    Dismal analysis. Everybody talks about the aid we give, and I wonder what the US and world total cost of Israel is. Astronomical. How much did the World Trade Center cost?
    .
    This albatross will hang around our neck until Armageddon. Another no win for Obama presented to him my the right wing and their religion zealots, jewish and christian.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    You have entirely too much faith in Obama. For one, you’re wrong in that he has actually acted like a neocon on foreign policy in many respects. We’re still in Iraq, escalation in Afghanistan, drone attacks in Pakistan. GITMO. Waterboarding. Etc. Etc. Second, you underestimate the power and influence of the pro-Israel lobby, through its many affiliates in government, the press, think tanks, donors, and the public. I’m sorry to say, that you are more than likely dead wrong in your analysis. Obama will not win this one. Israel will.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Exiled_At_Home

    They are an ally.
    They are a Democracy.

    There is only so much we can do.
    Possibly we could threaten what you put in 1.2.

    By the way, spying on one’s allies is the norm, not the exception. Israel’s Mossad is, apparently, both better at it and more over-the-top than most of our allies.

    It’s like Israel is on a suicide mission with this new plan for more settlements. Why is that so many religious fanatics are so eager to be killed and see their god. Can’t they just play it safe, not get killed and just do some praying and good deeds?

    I like good deeds.

  • carotexas1

    Thank you I was going to post that I would not want to underestimate our President.
    He also stood up to the bullies that wanted to rush his strategy on Afghanistan and did it his way in his time frame.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Annual aid to Israel under the MOU is to rise from $2.55 billion in 2009 to a ceiling of $3.1 billion in 2013, and it will remain at that level for the rest of the period.

    Like in previous years, Israel can spend up to 25% of the sum for defense purchases from Israeli manufacturers, and the remainder must be spent for defense purchases in the US.”
    .
    If we are discussing aid lets be accurate about the dollars and how they are spent.

  • kristiia

    Bibi seems like Israel’s Bush – his policies are leading them right off a cliff but it may be on the next person’s watch. Belligerent and obnoxious to friends and foes. Unconcerned with long-term consequences of their actions.

    It is such a sick joke that when we finally have a President who, from day one, truly wants to help bring peace to the region, we have a Prime Minister and Israeli Government completely hostile to the concept.

  • pafro

    The fact they aren’t in prison is proof they are tolerated.

  • ohiolib

    With friends like these, who needs enemies?

  • chrisnbama

    There isn’t a damn thing Obama can do and Bibi knows it.

    Democrats are already entering a terrible election cycle, and can not afford to alienate the jewish community.

    I like what Exhiled_At_Home has to say, but it simply isn’t politically feasible. Obama’s going to have take it on the chin…again.

    It’s a shame that Bibi won that last election.

  • formerlyjames

    BTW, Egypt is a close second in line behind Israel in free money from the US. Again, the aid is pocket change to what this whole thing costs the world.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    To put that in perspective, the 2008 Gross Domestic product of Israel is $199 Billion.
    Taking into account that the impact of not pumping money will have it’s own impact, Israeli GDP will drop by Five Billion or just over 2.5%

    That is significant, but not earth shattering for Israel.

    It all depends upon how hell bent Israel is on these new settlements.

  • maverick2k9

    Can’t we get Senator Bunnings to put a hold on Military aid to Israel under some “political pay-go” rule?

  • Paul-no not that one

    75% of the 3 Billion Israel receives this year MUST be spent for defense purchases from the US.
    .
    I’m suggesting that there just might be a reason for the amount the US gives in aid.
    .
    And it has nothing to do with Israel.

  • formerlyjames

    Maybe if we shifted all of the aid to Egypt, they wouldn’t be so complicit in maintaining the criminal ghetto of Gaza that Israel has created after the criminal slaughter there.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Point taken, Pafro.

  • mni08

    Responding to Exiled_At_Home…

    Cleaning up the mess left by the Neo cons in both Iraq and Afghanistan is not acting like the Neo Cons. The last time i checked Obama stopped torture, including waterboarding. As for drones in Pakistan, he promised to hunt down terrorist during the campaign and got lots of flack from both the right and left.

    As for “having too much faith in Obama”, I believe that no one is a paragon of perfection but Obama is head and shoulders above most politicians criticizing him in Washington. I supported him when he was 40 points behind Hilary during primary and I supported him during the hey days of Palin. After the election and inauguration, I supported him when his poll numbers were in the 70′s and I support him now that his poll numbers are lower 50′s. No one ever said that change was going to be easy. But if anyone is going to do it I believe that President Obama will.

  • carotexas1

    Good point Paul, in other words this is in a way stimulous to the US. Witholding it might add to job loss at this time.

  • Ike Jakson

    Joe,

    “but Benjamin Netanyahu has thrown down a gauntlet and it will be interesting to see what, if anything, Barack Obama does about it. .”

    There is nothing Barack Obama can do about this. It will be far better for him to stay at home because his so-called International Acclaim was a fabricated myth; it has now vanished. Good Grief Joe, the Turks are laughing at this guy.

  • formerlyjames

    Another idea. Rahm has become a pain in the butt as chief of staff. Reassign him to Israel to deal with them. If he’s not onboard for that, send him packing. Also, shift more of that aid to Egypt’s way. They need it more anyway.

  • Paul-no not that one

    carotexas1-well sure there is that, along with what President Eisenhower warned about.

  • formerlyjames

    Thanks, Ike. At least you’re addressing the right man now rather than calling MS Joe as you did in the last thread. Now just work on providing something worth reading. I know watching the Trinity Network while posting is a distraction, but just try a little harder. You can do it.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Direct aid to Israel is near $3 billion per year. 75% of this is allocated for military spending. However, since 1974, large portions of this military aid are marked as “loans,” for which repayment is waived, therefore absolving Israel of accounting for where it is spent. In addition, supplemental aid packages are often passed through Congress, such as $1.2 billion for the Israel’s agreement to the 1998 Wye Agreement and $1 billion in 2003 as a foreign military financing package. What’s more, the quoted aid figure does not actually reflect reality, because Israel, unlike any other aid recipient, receives it’s money within the first 30 days of the fiscal year, in totality, as opposed to quarterly installments. Therefore, Israel accumulates massive profits in interest tantamount to an extra $1.3 billion, according to Rep. Lee Hamilton. Moreover, the CRS estimates that it costs the US taxpayers between $50-60 million each year to borrow the funds needed to give Israel the lump sum aid. Israel, in turn, reinvests a lot of this money in US treasury bills, earning additional interest footed by the US government. According to CRS’ Clyde Mark, “Because US economic aid is given to Israel as direct government-to-government budgetary authority without any specific project accounting, the money is fungible, there is no way to tell how Israel uses US aid.” Israel is also given loan guarantees whereby she may borrow from US banks at lower rates, such as the nearly $10 billion in loans in the early 1990s and $9 billion in 2003. There’s much, much more than this in Israel’s special status in aid reception, loans, and financing. The point is, the US does not gain from this in military spending here in the US. Yes, that’s an aspect, though it’s minuscule at best in respect to the sheer absurdity of Israel’s monetary privileges.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Rahm has dual Israeli-American citizenship, is a committed Zionist, served in the IDF in the 1990s, and is son to Benjamin Emanuel, a prominent member of Irgun in the 1940s. Rahm’s the last person in the world who could offer any positive influence on the peace prospects.

  • formerlyjames

    Exiled, I’m just trying to offer ideas. He is, after all, up to their level on the obnoxious meter. He doesn’t offer any positive influence where he is, maybe he can help over there. Of course, you are right. Wouldn’t it be fun to be a fly on the wall when Obama talks to him about it?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Netanyahu, as Olmert before him, and Sharon before him, etc. have always opposed peace. It’s the Israeli way. Concede nothing, while always laying the groundwork for future acquisitions. It’s a 40 year cycle of take, take, take. For our part, many US Presidents have tried to curb this, have tried to negotiate a settlement, however they have been overwhelmed by Israel’s friends in Congress. I’m tired of always repeating this, but G.W. Bush pushed hard for an end to the settlements (more forcefully than Obama has to date) and he is responsible for the 2003 Roadmap to Peace, the single most balanced arrangement I have ever read on the conflict. It was agreed to by all sides, however, has since been ignored by Israel. What has your Obama done for peace?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    I would, without hesitation, find the vilest pile of bile to roll around in before landing directly in Rahm’s eye. I know, it’s not much, but what’s a fly to do?

  • formerlyjames

    Pretty much what you describe, I think. lol

  • formerlyjames

    Seriously, what do you think of playing Egypt off Israel, especially in Gaza, with the aid?

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    I’m sorry folks. Yet again, I’ve allowed my pompous ego to get the better of me and I have monopolized another Israel thread. I’ll let you discuss this is in peace. I bid you all farewell.

  • dadanarchist

    Joe -

    I’d be interested to see some reporting as to whether or not this was a rogue declaration by Avigdor Lieberman’s lieutenants. Lieberman controls the Interior Ministry and undoubtedly would have controlled the announcement of the expansion, even if the expansion itself would have been subject to broader cabinet approval.

    Was this Lieberman’s finger to both the VP, and to his boss, Netanyahu? Lieberman has been trying to maneuver himself into the position of the new savior of Israel for some time, the hardest of the hardline.

    Any reporting on this? Some of the Haaretz writers were speculating along this line earlier in the day.

  • concernedcitizen2010

    US is at a crossroad. If the current economic downturn continues, we would be looking at a gradual decline in American influence and the superpower status, just like what had happened to all the previous superpowers. Our special relationship with Israel is costing us a lot and I am not talking about the $2B check. This relationship is a primary source of hatred for Al Qaeda and other Muslim fundamentalists and the terrorists. We are spending trillions of dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan to fight those fellows. So either we can continue our no-questions-asked support to Israel and risk losing our global influence as a result or we can tell Israel the following:

    “USA is a country of 300+ million people and has its own problems to worry about. Israel is a great friend of ours, but it’s just a friend only and there are only so many things a friend can do without endangering our own priorities. Israel is not a child anymore as it were in the last 50 years. It has grown up and now it must behave like an adult. It has the responsibility to take care of its own business.”

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Egypt has a legitimacy issue. The people of Egypt resent the government’s complicity in the blockade of Gaza. The government, though, is both uneasy with jeopardizing normalized relations with Israel, were the Egyptian border to be opened, and leery of an influx of Palestinian refugees from Gaza. The US could, potentially, convince Egypt to open the border with aid incentives, which would be a popular move with the Egyptian people. However, the Egyptian leadership must weigh that with the compounded problems of refugees flowing out of Gaza and arms flowing into Gaza, via Egypt. This will open Egypt up to Israeli air raids on suspected arms routes, and even caches stored farther inside Egypt. Israel does not respect sovereign borders. It’s risky for Egypt.

  • formerlyjames

    I would also ask how much influence Lieberman has with the massive Russian immigrants in Israel. Does that mean anything? I really don’t know, just wondering.

  • formerlyjames

    Exiled, that is this thread’s loss, but have a good night.

  • dadanarchist

    Oops, I meant Eli Yishai, and I see the NY Times has picked up on this.

  • jcapan

    N-R, for a guy who’s most passionate about Catholicism and the Middle East, this is a good day for you. I’m rather stunned to see the commentariat most engaged by this. Of the top 3 posts today, 2 concerned the M-E and 1 a torture apologist. Folks must be fatigued by domestic policy failure and want to look to our many fo-po failures.

  • abdullah69

    Israel will always be a problem while the US believes it can solve foreign relations problems through military rather than diplomatic means. Israel lacks both water and energy and must rely on its neighbours – all Arab states – for the basic means of survival. A diplomatic solution would have been a no – brainer for most European countries in the nineteenth century, but after the “for us or against us” policy of the last President, a solution is practically impossible.

    If the US is serious about achieving a lasting peace in the Middle East – and there are many in the defence industry and Pentagon who pray to God each night this will never happen – then it needs to open a meaningful dialogue with both Syria and Iran, as well as the more moderate Gulf states whose political influence may be small, but who hold immense economic power. They could of course follow the traditional method and invade these states, but the rest of the world has exhausted their patience with that approach

  • ponfi

    A suitable countermove to the Israeli slap in the face could be to send a convoy consisting of humanitarian aid and building materials to Gaza.

  • discostu570

    I have some difficulty with the notion that taking a stand against Israel would be political suicide for Obama. How many left-leaning voters does that alienate, really? He doesn’t need to gain love from the right to win a second term, keeping the majority of those who voted for him the first time around would be more than enough, and if anything, he risks alienating them if he continues to view the world in the same way as his Republican adversaries. Unconditional support for Israel is not something that liberal voters demand.
    .
    Withdrawing aid from Israel could actually soften opposition, if not win support, from the fiscal conservative section of the right wing, who always cite foreign aid as a big check we can’t afford to write. Not from pundits obviously, they know where their bread is buttered, but from actual people. The notion that supporting Israel is more trouble than it’s worth resonates with a surprisingly large section of the non-evangelical and non-militant-for-it’s-own-sake right wing.
    .
    And as for support from the lobbies and campaign contributions, I keep hoping to see evidence of Obama noticing he doesn’t really need the support of anybody but voters to stay in office. A public stance in opposition to one of the most powerful lobbies in the capitol would do more to energize his base than any legislation he could pass. As for campaign contributions, he’s the President, he can get on television as often as he wants for free, he doesn’t need to run commercials.
    .
    Netanyahu thinks he can bite the hand that feeds because he doesn’t believe Obama has the stones to reverse a half century of American collusion in the destruction of Palestine. Here’s hoping he’s proven wrong. I think its a pretty narrow band of the American populace that wouldn’t breathe a deep sigh of relief if they heard the President say Israel is acting like a bunch of jerks and they’re on their own.

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    “The question is, how will Obama respond?”

    Occupy Palm Beach.

  • danielatlanta

    Obama has already acted to shake things up, and this recent action is Israel’s response. Almost a year ago, Obama called Israel’s bluff by making the settlements the issue. Israel wants to annex the West Bank piece by piece using the settlements, but doesn’t want that fact said out loud. Obama has forced Israel to say it out loud. This latest action with the 1600 housing units shouts out Israel’s long-term intentions loud and clear. Before Obama forced the issue, everyone knew that the Palestinians were posturing about peace, really wanting to push Israel into the sea, and now everyone knows that Israel is also posturing, wanting to push the Palestinians out of much of the West Bank. It may not seem like progress, but Obama is getting both sides to stop pretending and facereality. Now that everyone is beginning to recognize their own and the other side’s reality, the whole Israeli-Palestinian “peace process” is, without the baggage of pretense, in a better position to see movement than it was a year ago. The only question is, which way will it move?

  • choska

    First Obama forces the GOP to appear on national television and demonstrate that they are the party of No Clue.

    Now he has forced the Israelis to demonstrate that they are pursuing a policy of apartheid against the Palestinians.

    Joe argues that Obama is risking weakness if he doesn’t respond appropriately. Perhaps. But at least everyone now knows beyond the shadow of a doubt who the GOP and the Israelis truly are.

    Forcing our enemies to expose themselves is to us – and to themselves – has to count for something.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    The problem with your analysis is that everyone has known about Israel’s Apartheid policies for decades. This is nothing new. Obama did not force Israel’s hand, he did not shed light on some dark and secretive Israeli expansionist policy. Up until 2003 President Bush was far more vocal in calling out the illegality of the settlements. It was ignored by the American media, by the American public, and by Israel. I wish what you say were true, but unfortunately, the same fate will befall the Obama administration. He will taper off, the cries will cease, Israel will go on, peace will be rejected.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    James,
    Thanks again for reading.
    ~
    J-C,
    I must say, I am pleased by the level of participation and attention given to this issue. But, to what end? I am not optimistic…

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    Question:
    Does anybody know any non-religious reason why Israel would want to open up more settlements?

    If there is a reason other than something in the Torah, then, very possibly, an alternative can be found.

    Otherwise, we are dealing with a group of Israelis in the Israeli government nearly as insane as Muslim fundamentalists.

    Since this policy will cause bloodshed of both Israeli and Palestinian people in addition to US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan due to Iraqi Afghan supposed sympathy for the Palestinians if this policy of Israel has no non-religious objective, I do not believe that it is inappropriate to compare it to actions of Islamic Fundamentalists.

    If anybody knows any secular/non-religious reason for this expansion, let us all know.

    Secular people or people with goals not related to an inflexible view of religious texts can be negotiated with. If Israel is just citing the Torah for this action, then Israel must be discouraged in every possible way short of cutting off our long time alliance but including a freezing of US Aid.

  • kevin

    I agree completely, Exiled.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Increase funding to Palestine and/or talk with Hamas. In the former case, he could basically hide it as rewarding their good faith work, in the latter, he takes a lesser blow from the Jewish leaders, makes the Israelis go balistic, and can shield himself by pointing out that it all plays to his stated beliefs of talking with leaders of the world without preconditions.

  • afguy

    patrick,
    .
    Even if they were to be found to be using the Torah as their SOLE justification for the settlements, it wouldn’t matter to their more hard-core supporters here among the Fundamentalists.
    .
    Read up on Pre-Millenialism to see why. The existence of Israel is the fulfillment of a prophesy that they believe will ultimately benefit THEM. In the meantime, staying on Israel’s good side is ALL-IMPORTANT to them. The pro-Israel lobby uses this belief to their advantage.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    The Israelis have endless reasons for their insatiable hunger for expansion. One, as you mention, is religiously tinged, that the Jews are God’s chosen people, and his covenant with them was for the land of Eretz Israel (which includes Gaza and the West Bank). Another theme is victimhood. The Jews were “expelled” from Israel 2000 years ago, but their claim to the land did not vanish with them. Another is strategic, domination over West Bank, for example, greatly hinders the capability of a strike on Jerusalem, which the Israeli’s wish to be their undivided capital. The Golan Heights has obvious strategic benefits. There is also a blatant sense of superiority, that the Arabs are inferior, especially in matters of the use of the land. The generally accepted narrative of the creation of Israel includes many reasons why the Israelis should expand into the whole of Palestine, why this is just, why this is inevitable. However, Israeli scholars have lately been debunking these claims in what has been referred to as the “New History.” These scholars, of course, are far from pupular among the Likudniks, however. Self-hating Jews and all that nonsense…

  • michaelfury
  • pintortwo

    mnio8- I like your optimism, but I disagree. Obama is not “cleaning up” neocon messes– he is committed to “finish the job” they started.
    .
    US forces under Bush made al Qaeda irrelevant in Afghanistan and started building military bases; Obama continues to build and defend them (not from foreign nationals and terrorists, but from indigenous Afghanis). Obama chose Petraeus and McChrystal to head the counterinsurgency and “surge” in Afghanistan– as in Iraq. Obama is building a $3/4 billion US Embassy/FOB in Pakistan– roughly the price-tag as the monstrosity in Baghdad.
    .
    Unfortunately, the same Pentagon brass are running the same playbook from the last administration. A network of military bases is still the goal. Nothing significant has changed.

  • danielatlanta

    The Torah presents a strong case for MODERN Israel’s possession of the land. There is a divine momentum in recent history that everyone–Israelis, Palestinians, Arabs, and the rest of the world– need to consider.

    For instance, the liberation of the Temple Mount in 1967 was foretold to the exact time in the Book of Daniel, chapter 8, see for brief explanation …

    http://www.prophecysociety.org/previews/chapter_one_sample.pdf

  • mrein

    I hate to bring facts to Joe’s analysis since emotion is so much more fun, but this statement is simply wrong:
    .
    “on land the Palestinians consider their future capital in East Jerusalem”
    .
    The facts are that the 1600 apartments were to be built in the Ramat Shlomo neighborhood. That is an area that the Palestinians were willing to accept be part of Israel in the future: http://blog.camera.org/archives/2009/12/more_detail_on_olmerts_offer.html
    .
    Was the timing great? No. But still it would be nice if Joe knew a little about what he was talking about instead of just repeating talking points.

  • shakrai

    “Where the real game changer is, I believe, is in intelligence information we give them”
    .
    What of the intelligence information they give us?

  • shepherdwong

    “…a clear signal that Israel does not intend to negotiate in good faith…”
    .
    “Netanyahu may have been taken by surprise by the announcement of new construction in East Jerusalem…”
    .
    Are we supposed to take any of this crap seriously? I mean, good lord, how long have you been doing this, Joe?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    daniel,

    I am sure that Christian and Muslim prophesy would have no bearing on Israelis policy nor if they got upset about what other countries do.

    Unless this prophesy includes instructions for peace in Israel/Palestine and proves to please everybody, I do not see it as significant to the rest of the world.

    I wanted to know if there were any secular reasons. Is there a shortage of good real estate in Jerusalem? If there is, I know many people who can get each and every one of those people a great place on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.
    Benifits include:
    Doorman service

    Best Public Transit in the United States and one of the best systems in the world.

    Short commutes

    Excellent views.

    Your neighbors do not want to murder you.

    Your moving there will not result in the targeting of the US for future terrorist attacks

    You will be very unlikely to cause World War III.

    And don’t forget, just a short taxi ride from Lincoln Center!

    Sounds better to me, but, what I do know?

  • danielatlanta

    Patrick, just for the record, that prophecy isn’t Christian or Muslim in its origin, it’s Jewish, from the Tanakh, in the Book of Daniel, chapter 8, verses 13-14, and it explains precisely what happened in 1967 during the Six-Day War. It was written by a Jewish prophet more than 2,500 years ago (or, if you are a skeptic, at least 2,000+ years ago since a copy was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, scientifically dated to the 1st century BCE). The prophecy and its modern fulfillment are exact, matching both the Bible and recorded history exactly. As for containing a prescription for peace, it does that indirectly. If all parties would agree to honor what was revealed in the prophecy (which was fulfilled exactly in 1967 by the liberation of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount by Jews), then real peace talks could begin.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I’m more than a skeptic, I am an atheist.
    So, it would, most likely be far easier to convince a Muslim than it would be to convince me that a particular thing is fulfillment of a prophecy.

    How about this: convince the Muslims that this is the fulfillment of the prophecy first and move in those families afterward?

    If that can be done and Muslim and Christian Palestinians welcome the settlers with open arms, then I am all for it. Let them all have a great time and break bread together!

    Until that point, I am against things which instigate conflict which includes death. That is I am against death to Israelis, Palestinians, Americans, Mexicans…. name the country and I am against their premature and/or violent deaths.

    I am aware that the Book of Daniel, from my first quarter century as a Catholic is where Christians see Jesus Christ as a being prophesied. So, I really doubt that this can do more than cause fresh corpses around the world.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    Shakrai~
    ~
    I presume your point is that by revoking Israel’s access to our intelligence information she would in turn withhold information from the Unites States. On the surface this seems a reasonable concern, however, if we delve a bit deeper it does not stand up to scrutiny. First of all, Israel has a long history of withholding, even manipulating, vital information from the US. Mossad had forewarning of the 1983 Beirut attacks and failed to warn US officials. Mossad had leads on the whereabouts of abducted CIA Agent Bill Buckley in Lebanon, and again, they failed to warn the US. Bill Buckley was later killed. Victor Ostrovsky, a former Mossad analyst, defected to the US and informed us that the bombing of a German night club that resulted in the deaths of US servicemen was wrongly attributed -by Mossad- to Libyan radicals. The result of Israel leading the US astray was an airstrike in Libya. In 2001, the US Army released a report warning of Israeli black flag operations guised as radical Islamist operations. Ariel Sharon’s ad hoc intelligence units provided the US with now discredited intelligence drumming up a war with Iraq. In 2003, they again attempted to convince US officials of the irrevocable threat posed by Syria, and alleged WMD in Syria’s possession. All of this is indicative of Israel’s blatant manipulation of intelligence to serve it’s interests, at the expense of American national security. I see no reason why we should be concerned about losing such “intelligence” information.
    ~
    Furthermore, America’s relationship with Israel comes at the expense of closer ties with Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and Lebanon. All of these states struggle with their own radical militant problems and would be more than happy to cooperate with the US on these matters were the United States to cease its provocative treatment of them. Take Syria, for example, a largely Shia nation whose government has been at odds with Al Qaeda for years. Immediately following the attacks of September 11, Syria began providing the US with sensitive intelligence on Al Qaeda operations. President Bush on more than a few occasions praised Syria’s assistance. However, with Jerusalem itching for regime change in Damascus, the Iraelis began feeding the US false intelligence reports about a Syrian threat. AIPAC and the lobby helped push through the Syrian Accountability Act in the US Congress. At this point, Syria deemed it imprudent to continue cooperating with the US on counter-terrorism operations. The intelligence flow ceased.
    ~
    So, given all of this, perhaps you should rethink the importance you bestow upon Israeli “intelligence” and begin to ponder the benefits of a more balanced approach to the Middle East with more cordial relations with Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt.

  • Exiled_At_Home (formerly Neo)

    See 20.1

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    Obama makes the move which alienates some independants and fires up the Conservative base which weakens the Dems as a party going into 2010 which many congressmen are already concerned about going into the Health Care vote which kills Obama’s major initiative which badly damages his 2012 prospects. Do you dispute that train of thought and do you think that isn’t, if not political suicide, a politically unpalatable option ATM?

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    daniel,

    You made the comment that Palestinians wish to push Israel into the sea.

    First, I am very aware that, when translated into English Arabic and Hebrew sound extremely dramatic when their points are often less extreme.

    Second, the people who are on the land now known as Palestine (we can go on and on about what the people or the place were once called or if they are related to the Philistines – maybe or maybe not) were there for centuries by any secular source. An outsider comes in and requires them to move from the place they call home, puts some in refugee camps, does nothing at all for the first twenty years of occupation to give them any type of government of their own, can’t you see why there is a very serious grievance? At the extreme minimum, saying things like having that adversary “pushed into the sea” is understandable rhetoric so long as it is poetic and not literal.

    Third, I do grasp that a large share of Israelis are secular and even include some atheists of Jewish ancestry who are being blown up by lunatics, but, can you see how inappropriate actions of Israel make ordinary Palestinians cheer on these psychopaths rather than turn them over the the authorities as soon as they are discovered?

    It sounds like to me that you are asking the Palestinians to believe in Judaism.

    If that were the case, Jews could be annoying guys like Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses and convert people door to door. If it works, then there would be peace.

    If not, the Ultra-Orthodox must be held back in the name of peace.

  • http://forgottenlord.livejournal.com forgottenlord

    While the analysis of the prophecy is incredibly interesting, the fulfillment of a prophecy does not justify the crimes committed by the Israeli government. Furthermore, that report was published in 2009, I have a hard time believing that it is the operating opinion of the Israelis. (All of which is to say the prophecy has no bearing on whether the actions of the Israeli government are criminal and, for that matter, apartheidical in nature).

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