Israel Embarrasses Vice President Biden, Sparks Rebuke From U.S.

Yeah, the housing issue is still a really sore point, but imagine what VP Palin would’ve said.

Can you hear that? It is the sound of thousands of more Palestinian youth from Gaza and West Bank to Lebanon and Egypt becoming even further radicalized and desperate.

Israel must truly hold little to no regard for the U.S. They are practically laughing in Obama’s face.

Michael:

Unlike your next post, this one contains… whaddyacall it… oh, yeah – NEWS!

Something about “really great Armageddon,” I’m guessing.

I hate to say it, but Israel is acting like a little child, seeing how much they can get away with before provoking a response. Yes, there’s internal politics at play here, but Bibi has to choose between pandering to his extremist coalition partners and jeopardizing ties with the US. I think Obama has no alternative but to send Israel to its room for a timeout (figuratively speaking, of course).

They really don’t. They consider us in their “back pocket” because of the “allies” they have in our government at SO many levels.
.
Yet, if you ask many, it’s Obama’s fault that they are doing this, NOT that they are virtually “out of control” on their own.
.
Bibi could put on a red cape and sprout horns and a pointed tail and it wouldn’t matter to the “true believers”.
.
Israel’s the fulfillment of a prophesy in Revelation to many of the most hard-core Fundamentalists. THAT’s the reason for their unquestioning loyalty.
.
Democracy and righteous policy has NOTHING to do with it.

ug, my stomach turns just thinking of it. Biden’s statement is a good one but there’s more going on here than just Isreal being petulant. Bush let them have their way for 8 years and now Obama can’t say anything stronger than “it was warm there today” without the Republicans and the pro-Israeli lobby shrieking that he’s favoring the Palestinians. Israel needs a swift kick in the ass and some aid withheld or something similar to get the point across. They do not need that land and all building on it does is incite Palestinian resentment and make long term peace prospects more difficult. But the truth is, I believe, that the current Israeli government is about as interested in peace with Palestine as Republicans are interested in health care reform.

For the three billion they are getting this year (most coming back here in the form of military purchases)it would be nice to get a little courtesy.

Yeah, no kidding. I wonder if sitting on a few of those checks wouldn’t have more of an impact with them…

First of all, thank you MS for posting something important. It is much appreciated from this commenter.
~
As for Biden, what a fool. While I agree with his second statement, what world was he living in when he uttered this absurdity:

Progress occurs in the Middle East when everyone knows there is simply no space between the United States and Israel.

Are you insane, man? The lack of space between Israel and the US is precisely the impetus for anti-American ire in the Middle East. It’s the lack of space, read American backbone, that inhibits any chance of peace, for we all know the Israeli’s will only cede peace when forced to do so.
~
As for Israel’s continued, almost contrived, arrogant intransigence, it’s time to take the gloves off, or perhaps put the vests on…

“Put the vests on”?

What does that mean?

Groundhog Day: The tedious replay of failed U.S. policy in the Middle East

I’d like better value for my $2 billion.

“With allies like Israel, who needs ________ ?”

Charlie~
Your heart’s in the right place. But unfortunately, you allowed partisan perspectives to color your judgment. AIPAC and the Israel lobby funnel money to both parties. The Democratic Party is just as complicit in Israel’s intransigence as the Republican Party. In any given election, you can be sure that both candidates will espouse pro-Israel sentiments, take the money, and avoid a bloody, ad hominen laced campaign. You should read The Israel Lobby and US Foreign Policy by Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer, hardly GOP sympathizers. You’ll see that both Bushes were initially independent-minded in regard to Israel, with Bush I pushing for sanctions as VP and Bush II pushing hard for removal of the illegal settlements (as well as pushing through the largely fair 2003 Roadmap). Both Bushes, however, succumbed to Congressional pressure once AIPAC and the lobby put the squeeze on. There are many example of balanced Republicans (Paul Findley, Chuck Hagel, Richard Lugar, Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell) and Zionist Democrats (Chuck Schumer, Jerrold Nadler, Henry Waxman, Robert Wexler, Gary Ackerman, Tom Lantos) who undermine your inaccurate narrative of the pro-Israel GOP and pro-Palestinian Democratic Party. Might I also note, that Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama have all received Phillipic letters from Congress denouncing their independent approaches and jeopardizing the “special relationship with Israel.” Some letters were from the Senate, some from the House, all garnered a majority of signatures, overwhelmingly from both parties.
~
Most important lobby in the US: Council for the National Interest, founded by former GOP Rep. Paul Findley. Check them out: http://www.cnionline.org/

That was a not so-veiled call to arms, perhaps in bad taste.

Palestinians do not seperate U.S. and Israeli policy. To them the Israeli tanks and missels may as well say “Unites States of America” on them. So when Israel approves of new settlements, for the arabs it is really the orders of the U.S. Then we wonder where all the anti U.S sentiment comes from.
.
Israel has all the right to do whatever it chooses. I know if I was them I would probably do the same. But what does Israel provide for the U.S. that we would risk our security and economic stability? What benefits do we gain from being seen as Israel’s enabler?

I’d say less a call to arms than the inevitable consequences of Apartheid

Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-NY) is particularly vile:

link to Greenwald column containing Ackerman’s video self-indictment

None. Israel is a liability for the US in every sense of the word. No strategic benefits. No moral high-ground. No extension of American values. Zilch.

We get the maximum pride and hubris possible imbued in the position of not caring what the rest of the world thinks of which governments we uncritically support.

Good question north, to answer it is simple. The only thing the U.S. has gained is that we are target #1 for all radical arab groups looking for a scapegoat or a recruiting poster child for their own causes.
.
Iran loves the fact that we unconditionally assist Israel because it gives them someone to point the finger at in order to distract Iranians of Iran’s own problems such as a plunging economy and the green opposition groups.
.
Take away the U.S. as the bad guy and radical regimes such as Iran lose their rhetoric and suddenly become exposed for being naked and bankrupt.

“We get the maximum pride and hubris possible imbued in the position of not caring what the rest of the world thinks of which governments we uncritically support.”
.
Compounded greatly when said world has to listen to the likes of Hillary Clinton speak profoundly about which country merits US praise, moral arbiter of human rights.

North, are you responding to yourself? That’s some lawyermommy type sh!t right there

Right you are, SZ. I had forgot about that glaring benefit.
~
JC, hahah!

North, you forgot to change your moniker before replying. We’ll try to pretend that never happened.

JC, ha ha, yes I did.

If another country pulled a stunt like that we’d be hearing cries of “pull their funding.” It seems to me that notwithstanding alleged strategic value of the relationship and its location in the world, they clearly have become a strategic deficit and the source of the threats we are facing everywhere. With the kind of threats we are facing on a global scale, explain to me what the value of the Israeli realestate is anymore? Cut them lose!

JC~
Indeed, it’s not really a matter of choice for imprisoned Gazans. You can throw rocks, or possibly shoot a few AK rounds off, neither of which send any message to Israel. Or, you could take more drastic measures to inflict in psychological terms a bit of what Israel inflicts in physical and mental torment. It’s the response to nearly all military occupations, I don’t know why people are so shocked and appalled that the Palestinians are no different.

It was obviously on purpose. Sorry, didn’t know I was breaking the generally accepted standards of forum engagement! Just having fun.

Democrats in D.C. display an almost touching naivete about Israel. Netanyahu is a garden variety neoconservative. If he was in the U.S., his views would be appropriately discredited. But just because he is leading Israel, Biden and Obama act like they can walk hand in hand with the guy. Absurd.

How does Charles Krauthammer treat the White House? How does Bill Kristol? How does Dick Cheney? They have complete contempt for Obama and Biden. Why Obama and Biden expect to get more respect from Netanyahu is beyond me.

Wow, well put.

Good point, square1. You post some of the most insightful thoughts on this issue that I have ever seen.

Thank you, square1. You are too kind.

Now look what I’ve started. Its a good thing North is here to keep our heads straight!

Haha! Classic.

Hi Exiled. I recall you taking a cane to me on my comment on the Irish Catholic Clergy!! But when it comes to israel both Republicans (except Pitchfork Pat) and Democrats leave their spine at home. Even here in Britain we are terrified to upset the Israelis. And they have been dinign on the US and Britian lacking in spine.

While I do not want to see Jews relive the horrors of WW2 I find that they have made us feel guilt into an art form.

On ME policy they rule Washington and the supine MSM.

Thanks Exiled and Stu. I think it is very helpful for people to be reminded that in way too many areas we actually really have only one party running this country.

A proverbial cane, not literal of course. My apologies if I was a bit harsh, I have strong feelings on the matter. Yet, I’m not quite sure why you even bring that up, as I fail to see the relevance to this post. And, on a completely frivolous side note, my extraction of your Britishness from the sense of your post was correct!

That is some of the laziest sock puppetry ever. Didn’t even bother to sign in with a new name!
.
Signed Mary Rosh
Cosigned Sprezzatura

Sevenoaks~
Might I add that despite your frustration with the culture of deference that governs British relations with Israel as well, I envy the openness that your society has in discussing the matters in comparison to the United States. Your press is informed and often critical not only of Israeli policies, but the special relationship as well. Your citizenry is informed and somewhat more balanced. Your politicians are at least allowed to speak truthfully on the matter. Take MP Gerald Kaufman’s speech last year, for example:

My parents came to Britain as refugees from Poland. Most of their families were subsequently murdered by the Nazis in the holocaust. My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town of Staszow. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed.My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The current Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians. The implication is that Jewish lives are precious, but the lives of Palestinians do not count.
On Sky News a few days ago, the spokeswoman for the Israeli army, Major Leibovich, was asked about the Israeli killing of, at that time, 800 Palestinians — the total is now 1,000. She replied instantly that “500 of them were militants.” That was the reply of a Nazi. I suppose that the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants.
The Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni asserts that her Government will have no dealings with Hamas, because they are terrorists. Tzipi Livni’s father was Eitan Livni, chief operations officer of the terrorist Irgun Zvai Leumi, who organised the blowing-up of the King David hotel in Jerusalem, in which 91 victims were killed, including four Jews. Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism. Jewish terrorists hanged two British sergeants and booby-trapped their corpses. Irgun, together with the terrorist Stern gang, massacred 254 Palestinians in 1948 in the village of Deir Yassin. Today, the current Israeli Government indicate that they would be willing, in circumstances acceptable to them, to negotiate with the Palestinian President Abbas of Fatah. It is too late for that. They could have negotiated with Fatah’s previous leader, Yasser Arafat, who was a friend of mine. Instead, they besieged him in a bunker in Ramallah, where I visited him. Because of the failings of Fatah since Arafat’s death, Hamas won the Palestinian election in 2006. Hamas is a deeply nasty organisation, but it was democratically elected, and it is the only game in town. The boycotting of Hamas, including by our Government, has been a culpable error, from which dreadful consequences have followed. The great Israeli Foreign Minister Abba Eban, with whom I campaigned for peace on many platforms, said: “You make peace by talking to your enemies.” However many Palestinians the Israelis murder in Gaza, they cannot solve this existential problem by military means. Whenever and however the fighting ends, there will still be 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza and 2.5 million more on the west bank. They are treated like dirt by the Israelis, with hundreds of road blocks and with the ghastly denizens of the illegal Jewish settlements harassing them as well. The time will come, not so long from now, when they will outnumber the Jewish population in Israel. It is time for our Government to make clear to the Israeli Government that their conduct and policies are unacceptable, and to impose a total arms ban on Israel. It is time for peace, but real peace, not the solution by conquest which is the Israelis’ real goal but which it is impossible for them to achieve. They are not simply war criminals; they are fools.

~
You cannot even fathom the malicious, despicable response such a speech would incite here in the States. Any Congressman who uttered such a strongly worded analysis would be immediately denounced as an anti-Semite, have his personal life dragged through the mud, major funding deficits, as well as an invigorated support for his electoral opponent, regardless of who that may be. All of course would have been reflexively carried out by the Israel lobby, simply applying the playbook with an already mobilized contingency in the public, the press, and the government waiting for their marching orders.

formerlyjames, your insight here is absolutely stunning, surely the best of all.

actually, I haven’t made any comment. Too bummed out with the whole Israel thing. north gave me a smile during my funk and I just joined in.

Thanks to all the contributors, especially exiled who actually offered the most insight.

Thanks for reading, James.

Well, it reminds me of the Rahm/Massa story. This time it is Biden caught with his pants down hanging around his knees. This is just fabulous journalism.
It is also a great advance in US foreign policy. Go Joe, go my man.

Or is it more of the same?

http://ikejakson.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/home-again-and-out-of-touch-2/

It’s actually a Michael Scherer post. And what are your grievances?

Thanks Exiled for a generosity of spirit. I have been to Israel at least 5 times in the last three years and I was struck by the relatively open debate in Israel about Palestine set against the blind faith bs of the Likudniks. Nothing has harmed Israel more around much of the world than their arrogance; their access to US military weapons and AIPAC’s “control” of the Presidential race. Nuff said.

Yea, I’ve been as well. It is fairly remarkable how suppressed the debate is here in the US, along with the blatant dissemination of a false narrative, while within Israel itself the debate is vibrant and open. I read Haaretz quite often just to get up to date verification of Israeli policies.

Exiled_at_home

My friend, I know it is Michael Scherer’s Post, and I have no grievances, certainly not with you.

I am just a regular guy that I find politicians and Media reporting funny, with them giving us so many opportunities to lampoon them. They are not worth arguing about.

Just for the record then: I was referring to Joe Biden because this Post by Scherer is about Biden. I thought it was as hilarious as Joe Klein’s reporting on Rahm/Massa and whatever the relevance of that is.
It was satire, my friend, nothing else. I just get a lot of laughs out of the whacko politicos and equally wacko reporters, or what passes as reporting.

And I visualized Joe Biden with his pants around his knees in Palestine. I mean, what Joe Biden knows about the Middle East … my oh my!

Ike~
I certainly wasn’t suggesting that you may have had grievances with me. However, after reading your clarification, I must say, it would appear that you derive a certain pleasure from seeing the American VP shamed, and with him the nation, by the Israeli leadership. When it comes to domestic partisanship, fine, I see no real problem with getting a satisfaction in political opponents embarrassing themselves. However, when on the international stage, both Democrat and Republican administrations alike represent the United States. I for one am embarrassed by Biden’s untimely glorification of Israel’s “risk for peace,” only to be shamed hours later by Israel’s status quo instigation. Domestic partisan snipes aside, you should be both upset with Biden for naively representing the US abroad, and outraged at Israel for it’s continued arrogance. The message was clear: Israel does as she pleases, and despite America’s shameless rhetoric to the contrary, Israel can, and will, pose whatever obstacles to peace she pleases.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/movers-and-shakers/

“Democrats in D.C. display an almost touching naivete about Israel. Netanyahu is a garden variety neoconservative.”

square1:

I agree with you on this statement in many, many ways. More than I would bother to count here. Clearly this expansion is a provocation. However, strictly in terms of your statement, the United States is a not a fair comparison because it is not literally surrounded by countries and groups with the stated objective of “pushing it into the sea”.

Everyone needs to take a step back and notice that Israel is a sovereign country. Just because we do business with them doesn’t give us the right to tell them what to do in detail. This is a “problem” is U.S./Israeli relations that goes back decades (for a good read on it I suggest Niall Ferguson’s “Colossus: The Rise and Fall of the American Empire”).

The truth is that Israel can do quite well on it’s own without U.S. business and military sales support. If it came to outright war, we have a duty to defend them because they are an ally, just as in an all out war they would be bound to do the same for us. Even if we cut them off from military sales they’d still be far in advance of the countries and groups that surround them, so much so that the war would be short lived and end in an Israeli victory. They have amazing technological advantages in the military matters over everyone including us.
—–
On the topic of Biden: I don’t really have a problem with the VP, but he does like to hear himself talk, and it’s not that hard to embarrass a guy like that.

Joe Stay out of the Middle East . There should be no West Bank or Gaza. All should be Israel. If the Arabs living there wish to stay and be productive citizens fine if not go back to the countries that sent you to cause political unrest and terror. In 1948 your ancestors were asked to come back from exile where they had been sent by their own leaders and after the war they were threatened if they did so by their own so they could be used as political refugees for the media and U.N. The Sinai should also have never been relenquished. Peace is never acheived by giving up land to radical extremists. If its such a good idea then we should give Texas, New Mexico, Arizona , and California back to Mexico. We obtained those states the same way Israel obtained the afore mentioned areas in 1967. Soft bellied govt leaders before B.N. GAVE them away. That was stupid and a sign of political weaknesss. And it is about time someone told the u.s. they can’t blackmail their way into getting every little thing on the planet the way they want. I would say to Israel that as long as you have a Muslim sympathizer in the W.H. don’t count on the U.S. for a damn thing. But I will put my actions where my thoughts are. If the U.S. keeeps up this stance I’ll move to Israel and offer to walk the border for a tent and mres if needed. But I’m sure some of our Jihad loving friends would just as soon I go asap. Right!!!!