A Good Reason to Pass Health Care Reform

Thanks for the laugh.

Any rumors as to where he would want to go?
.
Dominican Republic, maybe?
.
I hear they have certain “freedoms” he would like to continue to “experience”…

Since close to half of the remaining countries which do not have health care also have limited electricity and no major media outlets, hopefully we will never hear from his conservative paradise.

He’ll just start a Floridian Separatist movement. Maybe he’ll join Buffett (Jimmy, not Warren) and form the Conch Republic out by the Keys.

Obama tells congress to pass this bill as it stands and you can “fix” it later. This is outrageous! What ever happened to common sense? When has government ever “fixed” anything? This bill is going to complicate our health delivery system BEYOND repair and Democrats will pay the consequences. (and rightly so)

I seem to remember the whacky left making simialr statements when Bush was elected. Unfortunately none of them left even though, tickets were purchased for them.

I can’t think of any legislation in the United States which was not amended every few years very quietly.

Name one government agency or government program which was created where there were, within five years zero amendments?

If you can find that one, can you see any similarity between it and what is going on here?

Adjusting existing laws and changing the policies of existing agencies consumes the vast majority of what congress does.

Believing that after this bill passes that no members of congress would touch it or amend it is incredibly absurd.

Even social security’s retirement age went up and social security is outrageously popular.

Joe

I remember seeing some polls indicating that the President is slipping in the ratings because the majority of voters don’t want Obamacare and that all he is doing with this bill is trying to save a doomed Presidency. Why should Rush help him do that?

http://ikejakson.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/happy-hour-for-joe/

And you have to keep in mind that this bill is attempting to fix a system already in place. So you can’t fix a fix???

Joe Klein:

A Good Reason to Pass Health Care Reform
.
Rush says he’ll leave the country if it happens.

No.
.
A good reason to pass health care reform would be that the legislation in question actually solves the fundamental problems with health care in this country.
.
Unfortunately, that’s not the case, unless your analysis tells you that the fundamental problem is that too many people get too much quality care, and not that quality care in the United States is drastically overpriced.

Hahahahaha. Every far left political advocacy group from ABC to NBC to CBS to the Huffington Post to Time magazine to MSDNC is parroting the same claim that Rush Limbaugh will permanently leave the country if Obama’s socialized medicine scheme becomes law. He was talking about going to private medical providers in Costa Rica in the event that he needed medical care in order to avoid the collectivized medical care of Obama’s fantasy of utopian, socialized America.

Social security was a fix to severe elderly poverty.
That fix got fixed.

Fixing fixes is what our congressmen do a vast majority of the time.

Private businesses are fixing their products day and night.
No good or service remains identical forever, either.

It’s called “improvement”.

Conservatives are unaware of this concept whenever they come near the ballot box.

Check out what KT wrote!

CR is ALREADY a socialized system!

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Rush, the closeted COMMUNIST!

ha ha ha ha ha!

textee:

He was talking about going to private medical providers in Costa Rica

.
Yes, you’re right.

Private health care is also available, very affordable, and high quality.

Why can’t we have affordable, high quality private (not nationalized, like the VA system here in the US) health care available to every single one of our citizens, too?

His presidency runs for four years, and Americans have amazingly short memories. If the economy is better by 2012, he is in like Flint.

“Private health care is also available, very affordable, and high quality.”
-
Stuart, private health insurance is only affordable here if it is provided by your employer. We currently pay $1,600 a month for two adults. That plan has a $2,500 deductible for each of us and there are some things that flat out aren’t covered. We live in a state that offers health insurance for people with pre-existing conditions, otherwise we couldn’t get coverage at all. The country is filled with people who don’t have that option.
-
I can understand why this HCR plan isn’t attractive to you. But, there are millions who will be helped by the current plan, even with all its flaws.

tjoyce994:
.
Thanks for reading and responding.
.
private health insurance is only affordable here if it is provided by your employer.
.
I understand that. I’m saying that it doesn’t have to be that way, and that it can’t continue this way indefinitely without major problems ahead –problems that make our current problems look good in comparison.
.
We live in a state that offers health insurance for people with pre-existing conditions, otherwise we couldn’t get coverage at all.
.
I’m curious: do you live in a state that mandates that everyone buy coverage, too?

“I’m curious: do you live in a state that mandates that everyone buy coverage, too?”
-
Stuart, no IL does not require you to buy health insurance. However, if you are uninsurable, the state offers a very expensive plan administered through Blue Cross Blue Shield. It’s better than nothing.
-
I agree that this plan is flawed. What I see as the saving grace is that it offers the uninsured the option to purchase something. I also believe that insuring everyone and offering exchanges will bring down the cost. Is it fair to say that you don’t think it will do either?

tjoyce994:

if you are uninsurable, the state offers a very expensive plan administered through Blue Cross Blue Shield.

I see. Thanks for answering my question.

It’s better than nothing.

I understand completely.

I agree that this plan is flawed.

I don’t think that it’s flawed, I think that it’s bad. A flawed plan would be something that’s incomplete or imperfect. I think that this is much, much worse. It’s the government committing to a US market-based solution to the problem of overspending. I am of the opinion that this solution won’t touch the biggest underlying cause of the problem in this country, which I believe to be wildly inflationary health care prices –I also think that the problem will become worse than if we had done nothing.

What I see as the saving grace is that it offers the uninsured the option to purchase something.

I was of this opinion, too, at the beginning of the process, before I read the Senate Finance Comitte final markup.
.
Now I know that there’s no mechanism in the exchanges –those pitiful, state-by-state exchanges– to exert national pricing schedules that were at least in line with the already serially over-paying Medicare.
.
With no price scheduling enforced by ties to Medicare’s nationwide patient rosters, it’s a house of cards.
.
The option to “purchase something” will turn out to be a hollow benefit, as the prices of what insurers pay for keep their current upward track unchecked.

I also believe that insuring everyone and offering exchanges will bring down the cost. Is it fair to say that you don’t think it will do either?

The “cost”? The cost of what? Health insurance?
.
If so, then for whom, and in what year?
.
For the individual market? For the group (employer) market? What year? For how long? By how much?
.
Do you mean the cost of Medicare to the Federal government (and ultimately us)? Medicaid to the states? Medicaid to the Feds?
.
Do you mean the cost of health care, as in “price”? Do you mean the cost of prescription drugs? Do you mean the cost of a hospital procedure? Do you mean the cost of these health care units to insurers, or to individuals?
.
Which “cost” do you mean?
.
I have seen data that suggest that the price of insurance to employers might stabilize (not go further up) or drop a point or three, and the retail price of insurance to individuals may rise (but coverage will be somewhat better).
.
I have seen data that suggest that Medicare is still on track to fail, and that Medicaid will be both expanded, yet degraded, i.e. still on track to fail.
.
I have seen data that suggest that the average price of each health care unit will continue to rise at a hyper-inflationary rate, unlike anywhere else in the world, thus threatening the stability of the entire health care system, both private and public, unless people start to receive much, much less treatment and care.
.
I believe that the plan for that eventual necessity is to let the private insurance cartels be responsible for denying enough treatment and care to keep the over-priced system going, and to turn the state’s attention to establishing means-testing for Medicare, as a “solution” to that program’s price problems –again, using care and treatment denial as the fix.
.
Those solutions are easier to pass and implement, both politically and in terms of policy rubber hitting the road, unfortunately.
.
Does that answer your question, tjoyce994?

Stuart, that does answer my question. Thank you.
-
By the cost, I mean the price of policies, which includes deductibles, co pays, and out of pocket expenses. You have the least power, when you are an individual buying coverage. I admit that I haven’t read the final mark ups on the senate plan.
-
I have read many of your previous posts, regarding what we pay for healthcare in the US and what other countries pay. I also agree that Medicare needs to be fixed now. (Truthfully, I am not as worried about medicare, because the elderly are a consistent and powerful voting block. For all the GOP’s talk about cutting Medicare, they aren’t talking about Paul Ryan’s plan, which is to gut the program and privatize it). While I agree the spiralling cost of healthcare (i.e. tests, drugs, etc.) are a problem, I think the large number of people who can’t access the current system — for love or money — is just as much of a problem.
-
We see the end game differently. I think that this is just the first of many changes in our healthcare. Americans are emotionally tethered to our employer based healthcare. Right now there are also too many people who have opinions but no skin in the game. In a perfect (read reasonable) world, it would make sense to tackle the cost of drugs, diagnostics and treatment first. I just don’t think that you can sell it. If you don’t pay for your health insurance, you don’t care about costs. If you don’t have insurance, it’s a non-issue.
-
Once this plan goes through – and I think it will -, enough people will see that all the talk about socialism, communism, and death panels was just idle chatter. Then we can go about the business of implementing the real reforms that will tackle the areas that concern you.
-
Thanks for responding. I always enjoy your posts.

For those of you who believe the spin from Obama, like: I’ll close GITMO by Jan 2010, We’ll bring back the troops (after I send 40,000 more somewhere else to fight the Taliban who have never been a threat to us) then health care for everyone must be what he says – great for eveyone and cheaper for we taxpayers; well in Florida after those big bad insurance companies said they couldnt afford to go bankrupt by hurricanes, the State formed its own insurance company: Citizens Insurance. The premums are much higher than those charged by the private insurers and every time there’s a major hit like 2004-2005 the taxpayer end up paying for the Citizens shortfall. This is what will happen with the Obama health care plan and you can give him an Oscar for his performance but it is spin to create the illusion that he is doing something

My understanding is that Citizens Insurance is an option for people who can’t get real property insurance in Florida. In that respect the higher premimiums aren’t any different from any other property assigned risk pool.
-
If you own waterfront property that is damaged every hurricane season, you can’t possibly be surprised that your rates are increasing. Owning this property is a personal choice, and you have indicated that you are willing to pay the freight. You can get a 30% increase in your health insurance premiums now on a policy where you have never presented a claim. I don’t see those situations as equal.

Thanks for this civil discussion, I believe I better understand your views, tjoyce994.
.
We shall have to agree to disagree.
.
The best case scenario is that I’m totally wrong, and that you’re totally right.

If anybody would be surprised to see me take a position for more limited government, I do with flood insurance.

If the insurance by private insurance companies is unaffordable, then waterfront property in storm prone areas will plummet in value. Since this is mostly owned by people who, if they have to, can afford to take a loss, I see no need for the program Florida created.

You can choose to purchase different property.

You can not choose what body you have or to go without a body.

It’s apples and oranges.

patricksartor, I believe that Citizen’s deals primarily with wind damage, but the points you made still apply. This is a personal choice. And it’s apples and pork chops. They aren’t even in the same food group.

Umm.. If the US Constitution wasn’t “fixed” at all, it wouldn’t have the 1st Amendment or the 2nd Amendment.