Why Eric Massa Is No Mark Foley

“Massa: He’s dying, and he’s not a hypocrite.” Makes me feel better, yes sir.

I have no problem holding Dems up to the same moral standards as Repubs. If a Dem said “I support a woman’s right to choose” or “I support gay rights” and then backed off, he/she deserves to be skewered.
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See also “Ford, Harold.”

I agree, JNS, that Massa’s no Foley.
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You don’t mention something–Rahm knew about Foley’s issues too.
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This is an interesting quote:
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“Massa’s a Democrat and not held up to the same “family values” standards that Republicans hold themselves up to.”
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But there are things that Dems do hold themselves up to, e.g., race, gay rights etc. So why do things like Cruz Bustamante using the “N-word” get ignored? And what of Pete Stark’s record? Or Chuckie Schumer calling a flight attendant a “b1tch”?

He’s being properly investigated, he’s not being investigated for going after under aged boys, he’s not a hypocrite, and he quit because he’s dying. Does that make you feel better? Because that was all in there too.

spob,
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Can’t quite see it… turn it about a quarter turn to the left. That’s it! It’s catching the light perfectly now.
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NOW I can see that “bright shiny object” you’re holding up over there…

sorry, afguy, when a journo admits that there’s a double standard with respect to parties, then it’s fair game to discuss why Dems aren’t subject to it.
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By the way, Gerry Studds was worse than Foley.

My bad – wasn’t trying to be mean towards HIM, just pointing out the hypocrisy of the other side’s arguments (i.e., “your” guy gets off easier than “our” guy). I wasn’t very clear on that.

CRB, you can see our pal Spoob makes that point very well.

I think the post was saying that Republicans market themselves the party of family and religious values, and democrats don’t. It isn’t as much a matter of a double standard as it is a matter of hypocrisy when republicans get caught violating their own set of ethics. Who anyone sleeps with is their own business, unless you are preaching to the rest of the world how they should live. .

“Massa’s a Democrat and not held up to the same “family values” standards that Republicans hold themselves up to.”

I’m sorry Jay but I don’t think you mean to say what this says. Democrats are certainly held to the same “family values” standards as Republicans. Just ask any Democrat in public office. Heck, ask John Edwards, It is certainly the case that Democrats get no “family values” pass that Republicans don’t.

I also have to reject the implication that Republicans somehow hold themselves up to a stricter standard of ethical and moral conduct than Democrats do. I don’t think you really mean to say that, do you?

Jay Newton-Small:

Massa’s a Democrat and not held up to the same “family values” standards that Republicans hold themselves up to.

Your use of the passive voice makes the sentence unclear.
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Who is not holding Massa up to the same standards?
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Did you mean to write:
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“Massa’s a Democrat, and they do not hold themselves to the same “family values” standards to which Republicans hold other Republicans.”
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, or is there someone or something other than “Democrats” who are applying a different standard?

The only thing JNS has wrong is the “family values” issue. The fact is that, while Republicans love to wield “family values” as a club to beat their political opponents, they are far more forgiving of indiscretions by their own members.

This is why Sen. Craig finished out his term, Governor Sanford is still going on hiking trips, and Senators Vitter and Ensign are going strong. Not to mention the media basically ignoring the “private” indiscretions of Giuliani and McCain.

OTOH, Gov. Spitzer resigned, Pres. Clinton was impeached, and most Democrats wouldn’t urinate on John Edwards if he was on fire.

the same “family values” standards that Republicans hold themselves up to.

All the reasons you outline JNS, are exactly right. In addition, in spite of all the politicos hyperventilating, I haven’t read any proof of the harrassment.

Just before I read your post, I read another article – http://cbs13.com/local/ashburn.arrest.dui.2.1534505.html

It seems (excerpts)-

a state senator from Southern California was arrested for allegedly driving drunk after leaving Faces, a gay nightclub in midtown Sacramento, early Wednesday morning.

When the officer stopped the state-issued vehicle, the driver identified himself as Senator Ashburn. He was arrested without incident and charged with two misdemeanors: driving under the influence and driving with a blood alcohol level higher than .08% or higher.

Ashburn, a father of four, is a Republican Senator representing parts of Kern, Tulare and San Bernardino Counties with a history of opposing gay rights.

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Again the only reason this is a big deal is the history of opposing gay rights. I hate hypocrisy no matter the situation or party.

spob,
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I think the point was that the Dems aren’t trying to run on a platform of total moral and ethical rectitude and authority, telling everyone how they need to live their lives.
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The GOP, however, practically bathes in that position. Uses it for a douche, hair oil, and body lotion.
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However, when they fail their own standards, a case of situational blindness sets in. It’s obviously a case of ethical and moral far-sightedness, with simultaneous laryngitis as a side effect.
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The type that only sees (and can articulate) failings on the FAR side of the political aisle.

I probably would, but I’d drink a couple quarts of petrol before I relieved myself.

Jay, don’t forget Dennis Hastert’s famous press conference addressing Foley …from a graveyard.
http://wonkette.com/289510/dennis-hastert-a-life-in-funny-pictures/

“Dear New Yorker,
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My apologies for this last minute group invite. No cause is more important than having the right people in Congress to ensure equality for all Americans. As such, I thought you’d like to know about an event we are doing for Congressman Eric Massa (D-NY29) this Friday in Manhattan. I realize you may not know who he is, so do take a minute to read on.
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Rep. Massa represents a very conservative district upstate NY; yet is one of our most outspoken defenders and allies. Having had the opportunity to meet him and spend some time together this past June at the NGLCC/NGLCCNY/NYSE Pride event at the NY Stock Exchange, I can attest to his sincere support of our community.
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Congressman Massa is a retired Naval Commander and was the Chief of Staff at NATO under Supreme Allied Commander General Wesley Clark. He is one of the leading voices in Congress to repeal Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. He was a strong and vocal supporter of Hate Crimes and pushed tirelessly for its passage. Eric has spoken out publically and often about the need to pass a fully inclusive ENDA. Eric supports us on federal procurement and opening the doors of the $530 billion federal procurement marketplace to LGBT businesses. Hands down, he is one of the most supportive Members of Congress on LGBT issues.
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Eric is undoubtedly one of the most targeted Members of the U.S. House of Representatives up for reelection next year and his race will be tight. But armed with the right war chest and ground game he will win. Simply put, he needs our help.
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Please join me, Congressman Massa and several LGBT leaders for cocktails and hors d’oeuvres this Friday, December 11th at Greg Morey’s fantastic penthouse at 38 East 1st Street. This will be a great event and timed to end early enough for you to continue on with your Friday night festivities.
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See the attached invitation for details and RSVP information. No amount is too small to help keep our ally, Eric Massa, in Congress!
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I hope to see you there. And by all means pass this on to anyone you think would be interested in attending or donating. You can donate online at http://www.actblue.com/page/nglcc.
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Yours,
Richard Oceguera, Justin Nelson and Chance Mitchell”

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http://www.nyrealestatelawblog.com/gay_rights_generally/index.html
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Wonder how they are feeling about it now?
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I really do not see what all the fuss is about. The man is clearly gay from the get go. Maybe it is just a little “tiff” between gay lovers.
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Perhaps it is just a David Letterman extortion-like scheme.
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Why do liberals jump to conclusions about everything before all the facts have been disclosed?

Vitter didn’t just decide to stay put, he was CHEERED by the others in the GOP when he made the announcement.
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Keeping the seat securely GOP was more important to them than any ethical or moral problems the occupant might pose.

Vitter was well pampered. He probably got group huggies from his fellow R’s.

“Massa’s a Democrat and not held up to the same standards
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Fixed it.

Your tortured rationalization certainly seems to verfiy that.

Decon’s “on a roll” today… nice.

“Massa just killed us,” an anonymous top Democrat told the New York Daily News. “It’s like what [Mark] Foley did to [the GOP] in the last cycle.”
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So this “top Democrat” is a frightened little coward in every way.

Thanks, but of course these guys (and Sarah) write our comments for us. I really, really hope Stormy Daniels runs against Vitter. She may go down (in defeat) but she’ll make Vitter look like such a toddler.

Can’t wait for the first “news conference” in which Stormy explains her “positions”.
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I’ll bring the beer… can you bring the nachos and dip?

Yeah, the Daily News Reporter then chased the scaredy-cat wimp out of the room.

Reading comprehension. Try it.

Not sure where the author got the idea that the “male staffer” was “young.” I don’t see that anywhere else. I suspect it’s not true. Can you please run a fact check on that?

Exactly.
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What integrity-less piece of political garbage is speaking for the whole Democratic party, I wonder?

Just another reason I am so glad I never view Politico anymore.

Probably because an unfortunate racist/sexist/etc comment is far more forgivable than committing an act that will, in the eyes of your base, ensure you’re going to hell.

Media Matters debunks most of the rumors – third one down.

frostysmom – he is usually referred to as a junior staff member. Some people probably extrapolated from that a matter of age as opposed to the equally possible position in the hierarchy.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201003040028

Uhhhh, there is a powerful Senate Republican who got outed as a fan of dressing up in diapers and having sex with prostitutes and Republicans have done nothing but say how awesome he is.

Yesterday there was a post here on Swampland about how some creepy billionaire who is 72 had just had a baby and was going to run as a Republican for NY Senate. 99% of Women who have babies are under the age of 40, meaning this old man was having sex with someone at least 32 years younger than himself, and probably 42 years younger.

Rush Limbaugh, who is the leader of the Republican Party, got busted for having black market Viagra as he was returning from the Domincan Republic. This country is well known for being a sex tourism destination. Limbaugh was not married at the time and had just suffered a break up from some CNN hostess.

Please don’t pretend that Republicans have any more “family values” than me.

It’s odd spob but I read about all the incidents you mentioned in traditional media. Where did you hear about them? What did you want to happen? Should Schummer have been expelled for calling a flight attendant a bitch (not nice), should he been put in stocks in front of the capital?

Eric Massa certainly doesn’t hold a candle to Mark Foley, and none of the allegations against Massa are proven.
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That said, if these allegations are true then it should be taken to court for a decision. I have no idea how Foley got out of a court battle, other than claiming that he was a different person when he drank. He certainly should have been taken to court.
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We should hold everyone in the government to a high moral standard (no in the religious sense) regardless of party and regardless of status in the government.

Well put, sasquatch. Nicely put.

Where is innocent till proven guilty? The trolls are already convicting him as a sexual pervert, deriding him and generally abusing their free speech rights, nothing new that. They are as despicable as ever and we must keep our heads up and not be influenced by their negativity.

On first reading the news I was crest fallen, No, not Eric, I prayed. I was concerned and must confess in the climate we now live in.
The exact comment is: “There have been questions about harassment against staff.”m A staffer that still works for him so it must not be that bad. “Yes, I use salty language – but harassment?” No – those accusations are a symptom of what is wrong with Washington.” Does anyone see the word SEX in that comment?? IT IS NOT THERE!!! Any notion of sexual harassment to a male staffer is, from what we know, completely mind game fabrication. So then harassment could be cussing out a bumbling staffer for poor performance, or refusing a vacation request or pay raise or whatever. Against the boss harassment could be most anything. It’s sad, but true. Sadder yet is the conclusions we jump to.

Consider that Eric has been a man of his word. He voted against the Health care bill, as he said he would if it did not include the public option. They had the votes then so it was not so consequential, they could let him off the bill. Now it’s a different story. Could it be a tactic used to “buy” his vote was it a bit strong armed negotiation by leadership? Like for instance: ‘You will get no money or other support from us for your campaign unless we can count on you for this health care thing’ Could that happen? At what point is it just too much or smell like a Karl Rove move. Eric was even pulled into Obama’s office and scolded for his votes that went against Obama.
It is tough living with a demon like a life threatening disease that could attack at any time. I know it wears on you, mentally and physically. Eric took on some big fights; you know there was some big blow back. You can not, even if healthy, keep fighting the good fight time after time after time without gaining ground, for doing so meets Einstein’s definition of insanity.

Thank you for all you have done in our name Eric. You rank among the best ever in my book.
It occurs to me that an energy company like Chesapeake Gas would have the motive and the means to contact a disgruntled former staffer and create a scandal over salty language.

After all, the corporation would just be serving the interests of their stock holders. Is it Just the “cost of doing business”?
A Navy man of 25 years who has his integrity intact, worked with many men and women under him has never had these things said about him is what is shocking. He is refreshing and if he wasn’t truly sick I would beg him to stay and fight the snakes. Like him Washington is a hell hole and who would want that in your final days.

I’d urinate on John Edwards. If he caught me in just the right mood, I might drop a steamer on his head too. It would make a good cd mix cover. (compact disc)

julzb:

While members of the media may attempt to convict Massa in the court of public opinion everyone here (at least so far) agrees that this would be wrong.

Further, I suggest you read up on “sexual harassment” there does not have to be “sex” for it to be “sexual harassment”. A male boss slapping a female worker on the butt, or a female doing it to a male, doesn’t contain any sex but is sexual harassment if it constitutes and “unwanted advance”. Words can be used to this effect to because it today’s politically correct world it constitutes a “hostile work environment”. An argument using crass language might be unwise but generally wouldn’t cross into sexual harassment.

The fact is that being in the Navy doesn’t give the guy a pass if the allegations are true. That’s like saying a guy who spent 25 years in the Marines can rob a gas station and it doesn’t matter because he said he didn’t do it and because he’s a Marine we have to take his word for it.

Crime is crime and, within reason, it should be punished. Clearly there is ample debate as to what SHOULD be illegal, but the law still stands. As the founders put it we are a “nation of laws” not a “nation of men”.

As I said before, if there is reason to further investigate this issue that should be done. If there is reason to believe crimes were committed it should be taken to court. This shouldn’t be tried in the court of public opinion. Any member of the government who commits a crime should pay the price, regardless of political party, great feats in office or prior record of service.

Dear Jay Newton-Small,

Only the first two differences you cite are correct or relevant to your point about political importance.

The third reason, retirement for illness rather ethical violations, will not cause the public to forgive the ethical violations or believe Massa is in fact retiring for a legitimate reason.

The fourth reason, political stature (Foley having the grand title of “chief deputy whip”) is of negligible importance. Your first reason addressed the issue of corruption in the leadership (Foley himself wasn’t that important/well-known nationally).

The fifth reason, hypocrisy, is pure political hackery on your part. Democrats aren’t expected to not molest their staff members? That’s a “family values” standard? You’re nuts.

And you call Foley “the ultimate hypocrite” because he authored legislation forbidding sexually explicit images of PRETEENS. In other words, you’re contending Foley secretly enjoyed such imagery, but there is no evidence to support this (ie slander). While completely improper, his behavior directed at a 16 year old boy is not the same as desiring a 9 year old boy.

Additionally, favoring a kind of policy while holding conflicting personal feelings is not evidence of hypocrisy.