Re: Is Abortion Still a Problem for Health Reform?

Amy, will you interview Stupak personally to pin him down on specific strategies (how to get 40 D’s, etc.)? Well, not literally pin him down, although I’d guess you can outmaneuver him with a “half-Nelson”. That photo would be great for “1000 words”. Any upcoming interviews with the bishops also?

…and declared that the Stupak standard is the only acceptable pro-life approach.
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And t think that, at one time, John Kennedy’s Catholicism was considered to be a problem, even with his explicit efforts to keep it at arm’s length,….

Stupak was just on Fox, and was smiling like a chesire cat. He knows he controls votes that will stop healthcare reform.
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Tomorrow should be interesting. President Obama is at Waterloo. The battle begins, and he fails. A sad day indeed.
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The ideologues on the left shall loose tomorrow. Obama in order to save face will acquiesce. It is a shame that real reform will not happen, some of the reforms such as to end the practice of pre-existing conditions would be a good thing.
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The democrats will go down in history as being to stubborn as to not accept other ideas when the offer was made.
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Thanks for the opportunity to help kill this bill once and for all. My job is done. rustyreturns is out, gone for good.
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Enjoy your lovely site and the wallow that is created here by TIME.com for it’s liberal friends they so obviously cater to on a daily basis. Come over to Red State once in awhile if you want to know the truth.

Stupak was just on Fox, and was smiling like a chesire cat.
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LOL!

Stupak is grandstanding on an issue that has little to do with health care reform. He knows that there is no language in the Senate bill that explicitly opens government coffers to pay for insurance. If the bill is good enough for Ben Nelson and Mary Landrieu and the rest of the Dem centrists in the Senate, it should be good enough for Stupak.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out………

Pop on over to RedState? No thanks. I’ll just break out the nail gun and fire a few into my scrotum. Less painful and it makes more sense.

So, they’d deny MILLIONS Health Care that would save tens of thousands of lives, and reduce untold pain and suffering for treatable medical conditions that currently go untreated due to lack of healthcare, because they don’t think the already strong restrictions in the Senate bill are stringent enough?

What little respect I had for the Catholic religion just went away.

What’s that old George Carlin skit?

“They’re all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you’re born, you’re on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don’t want to know about you. They don’t want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing.”

To be quite frank, there wasn’t much respect left after the child abuse scandals. Add to that blind intolerance towards gays, demands that one interpret the bible literally, explicit sexism in denying women priesthood, and condemning anyone who doesn’t believe in the same thing they do to an “eternal damnation in hell”, and lets just say it’s not high on my list of “religions I’d like to belong to”.

Rustydog:
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Why don’t you just be reasonable, and apologize to Karen like the decent person you know you should be, and then make heard the movement conservative voice you represent here at this national publication’s blog?

“….then make heard the wing nut conservative voice you represent here at this national publication’s blog?”
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Fixed it.

I don’t think that it’s either appropriate or fair to use this episode as an opportunity to slander an entire religion.

That George Carlin quote does not apply to the Catholic Church. It might well apply to certain figures in the GOP but it does not apply to the Catholic Church. The Church is active on numerous social fronts and actually practices what it preaches.
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I agree with 6.1. It’s offensive to use this as an opportunity to slander an entire religion.

First, I think you have your definition of slander wrong. It’s not slander when the facts are true.

That would be like saying I’m slandering Nixon by saying he abused his power and lied to the American people.

And second, how exactly is it not appropriate or unfair to talk about the Catholic religion “using this episode”, when they’re “using this episode” to push their religious doctrine on everyone else, to the detriment of millions of un-insured Americans?

Puh-lease.

Rusty may have forgotten what happened to the Cheshire Cat after it grinned. If only Stupak would make like the Cheshire Cat.
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Come to think of it, maybe Rusty does know what happened to the cat and is emulating it. Or has he bailed out before, when I wasn’t looking, and then recrudesced?
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Unfortunately, the underlying issue — will health care legislation be derailed by people leaping over one another to be more anti-abortion than thou? — is a very serious one, quite properly for consideration in these hallowed precincts. Props to Amy for keeping us informed. And, since this is an indirect response to Rusty, props also to KT, both for her work and for calling Rusty out.

They would counter that the hundreds of thousands of babies that are murdered every year are equally deserving of protection as the millions of people whom don’t have health insurance. Who has a better chance? The uninsured person who at least has access to the ER or the unborn life that is about to snuffed out?
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And don’t bother replying with pro-choice arguments about how “it’s not a human life” or some such. I’m not interested in having that discussion. I’m only trying to explain it as Catholics see it, not saying whether or not I agree or disagree with them. For them it’s a moral imperative.

Catholics are every bit as pro-choice as the rest of the population, shakrai: http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008093819/new-york-times-makes-fairy-tale-about-politics-abortion

That’s the rub, isn’t it? I’m not pro-anything. I’m just pro-healthcare.

But to folks like you, this isn’t about healthcare, it’s about abortion.

Pretty one-note, if you ask me.

If it’s a moral imperative for them, then their moral sense is all screwed up.

Their cock-a-mamie idea that “life” begins at conception is not even supported by the Bible, which by all indications posits that “life” begins, that is a soul is imparted into the body, upon the drawing of the first breath.

Maybe Catholics should read the Bible once in a while, and not just the parts they like.

Further, sorry SZ, but I do think it appropriate to “slander,” or at least excoriate, a whole religion when their leaders take political stands contrary to the good of the people and act like they have the patent on morals, which they most certainly do not.

I’m not sure when Iran and the greater Islamic forces suddenly had such a grip on our government here.
I mean, for the general ideas, it would appear that there are some basic skeletal similarities.
-A goal of no abortions (even though here, there would HAVE to be a health care system in place, first)
-One nation under one god
-Leadership to be the ultimate, unquestioned voice in decisions, with or without the citizen’s position considered
-Women in subservient roles, usually with less pay and having to dress in specific uniforms or accessories (the Catholic women are still expected to cover their heads and are given no major position in any church affairs)

I do think it appropriate to “slander,” or at least excoriate, a whole religion when their leaders take political stands contrary to the good of the people and act like they have the patent on morals, which they most certainly do not.
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The dead of Iraq cry out from their graves in the tens, if not hundreds of thousands.
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We are not our leaders when our they fail us.
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We are not the sum of the worst among us.
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It is bigoted, inaccurate and wrong to cast an entire faith population in the same mold of hate as the most hateful and hypocritical.
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You would not want this line of thought applied to you.

“We are not our leaders when they fail us.“

…so when do we see “sonofrusty”, “rustyloveskaren”, “rustycantquitus”, or “newfreedomblog”?

OK, I’m seeing that my “abstract” thinking is a bit…well…abstract.
Let me start again.
First, I like to hit the facts as presented from the article you wrote of…
- Both pro-life and pro-choice politicians are interpreting that absence to mean that the White House supports using the abortion provision authored by Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson
(the point here is that both pro and pro are interpreting)

-there have been no conversations between the White House and congressional leaders about the abortion issue
(how many conversations have they made? None)

-There simply is no way of knowing whether the President’s approach would garner enough votes to pass.
(and suddenly, we have President Obama’s choice?)

-Obama may be forced to talk about the one issue his proposal has avoided if he has any hopes of succeeding on health reform.
(on this last, I can’t help but to disagree soundly, though my reference is remembering what he said. #1 He was personally against abortion. #2 The important part was the freedom of the woman to do as she willed be done)

Now, that said, the rest of the article seemed to delve into the concept that the Catholic church should be the theocratic leader here in the US, even though they failed so sadly in Italy during WW2.
Well, I think most Americans don’t want a theocracy at all. I have no specific data on that, but, even our Constitution has wording against such an idea.
There are only a couple of contrary thoughts on that. I believe Glenn Beck is for a theocracy if it’s Mormonism.
I know Iran is for a theocracy.
China’s rule is theocratic in a sense as opposing theologies are not permitted.
The Dalai Lama only wants to see a freed Tibet, his home, in his present lifetime. But even so, that religion makes no moves towards converting the country’s population to their religion.

So, roughly speaking, the Holy Roman Catholic Church and the Republicans want strong anti-abortion language installed…perhaps next we could expel all condom manufacturers and even get around to dragging homosexuals and masturbaters out into the street and stoning them to death? You know…like it says to do in the bible….