Malpractice Reform

What was missing from yesterday’s White House health bill? Any new ideas that might win Republican support. That’s why I’ve been wondering if President Obama has been holding back, and might have something along these lines up his sleeve at Thursday’s health care summit.

The obvious one is malpractice reform. It’s something that Obama has spoken favorably about in the past. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he decided to reprise a conciliatory move he made last year behind closed doors. Our friend Jonathan Cohn seems to be thinking along the same lines. And he has some ideas of his own.:

While malpractice may not be a major factor in rising health care costs, the system is clearly broken. It forces doctors to operate under a cloud of suspicion, without necessarily punishing those physicians who are truly negligent. It encourages the use of tests and treatments that are frivolous, if not downright harmful. And it leaves the vast majority of people who need compensation for medical errors with no easy way to get it.

The key is finding ways to fix the malpractice system so that it helps both physicians and the patients, rather than one at the expense of the other. And there are several promising possibilities for achieving that. One is to have doctors report medical errors to hospital administrators, who would then notify patients and begin negotiations. A version of this “sorry works” model is in place at the University of Michigan Health System, where it has reduced lawsuits, cut litigation costs and sped the resolution of cases.

Another idea is to create a no-fault system, similar to the way workers’ compensation works, or to channel most malpractice cases through special “health courts” that would come before jury trials. (The Scandinavian countries and New Zealand have such systems in place.) One other proposal–perhaps the most intriguing–is to tie malpractice to quality incentives, by offering some sort of legal protection to physicians who demonstrate they have abided by accepted clinical guidelines. Not only might such a scheme cut down on frivolous lawsuits. It might also improve the quality of care–which would, in theory, reduce the incidence of actual malpractice.

The good news is that Obama doesn’t need convincing on this front. Back in 2005, while he was still just a senator, he co-sponsored (with Hillary Clinton) a bill that would have implemented a “sorry works” model nationally. It didn’t become law, but Obama kept talking up malpractice reform. Last year, he instructed the Department of Health and Human Services to sponsor a series of demonstration projects around the country.

Michelle Mello, a Harvard professor and leading expert in the field, says experimenting with the different models is precisely the right approach to take–because the data on the different reforms is still very sketchy. But, she adds, the experiments HHS has launched probably won’t go far enough, because they are too limited. To really see which approach works, it’s essential to get more data–and, whenever possible, to get data that covers an entire area (or areas) rather than one hospital or hospital network. Otherwise, it’s difficult to tell whether a program has worked simply because of idiosyncratic factors like a particularly dedicated staff.

This is where the Republicans could push the discussion forward. Both the House and Senate health reform bills encourage more experimentation. But they don’t set aside enough money. If Republicans wanted to do something to change malpractice, they could call for more funding of these programs–and, perhaps, more aggressive guidance about how to handle the results.

Of course, that would mean achieving malpractice reform, a cause they’ve long championed, in a different manner than the Republicans have traditionally embraced. But that’s the definition of compromise: Finding common ground with an adversary in order to achieve a goal you both share. Obama has shown he’s willing to do that. Will the Republicans do the same?

Related Topics: Jonathan Cohn, malpractice reform, Uncategorized
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  • stuartzechman

    KT
    .
    …And I’ve been conjecturing the same thing, starting last week:

    The Senate bill is already the result of months of compromise with Republicans!
    .
    So: If they’re not bringing the public option that Presidents Snowe and Lieberman hated, and they’re leaving in the middle-class benefits tax hike that Presidents Shelby and Nelson loved, then they’re prepared to negotiate away…
    .
    …the House’s National Exchange?
    .
    Our Democratic leadership sure are geniuses at negotiating on our behalf, aren’t they?
    .
    Maybe the Republicans will just present the Democrats with some glass beads, and Obama will hand over Manhattan Island and “Tort Reform” at that bipartisan “summit” next week.

  • hellslittlestangel

    Tort reform is pointless if it’s not accompanied by massive corporate tax cuts and deregulation. What’s the point of not getting sued without hauling in buckets of tax-free money doing things you could have once gotten sued for?

  • allthingsinaname

    It didn’t work in TX

  • bobcn1

    California has had it since the ’70s. Last week we were talking about massive premium increases — in California. It doesn’t work.

  • pafro

    Hilarious.
    Republicans don’t really want to reform the “tort system”, they want to cap damage awards on lawsuits and that is pretty much it. The best thing for reforming tort law would be to reform the (good old boy) ethics and licensing boards and get rid of a system that protects bad doctors much like the Catholic Church protects pedophiles.
    Republicans could care less if doctors are killing people, I mean today they are out saying that the guy that suicide bombed a government office had a legitimate gripe. they love death, especially if there is profit in it.
    I have lived in 2 different states where (corporate-style) Republicans have tried “tort reform” (Wyoming and Arizona) and the essential sum of their proposals was to cap damages for people they don’t like (people who have more “pain and suffering” than monetary losses). Even the Republican majorities in these two extremely Republican states told the Republican lawmakers to take a hike.

  • FlownOver

    “But that’s the definition of compromise: Finding common ground with an adversary in order to achieve a goal you both share. Obama has shown he’s willing to do that. Will the Republicans do the same?”

    Rhetorical question, I’m guessing.

  • kevin

    I’m sure he’ll offer that carrot again, but I don’t see any sign that the Republicans will accept it this time around.
    .
    We’re going to see a replay of what happened last year. From KT’s own article, cited above:
    .

    When Barack Obama informed congressional Republicans last month that he would support a controversial parliamentary move to protect health-care reform from a filibuster in the Senate, they were furious. That meant the bill could pass with a simple majority of 51 votes, eliminating the need for any GOP support. Where, they demanded, was the bipartisanship the President had promised? So, right there in the Cabinet Room, the President put a proposal on the table, according to two people who were present. Obama said he was willing to curb malpractice awards, a move long sought by Republicans that is certain to bring strong opposition from the trial lawyers who fund the Democratic Party.
    .
    What, he wanted to know, did the Republicans have to offer in return?
    .
    Nothing, it turned out. Republicans were unprepared to make any concessions, if they had any to make.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks for this, great catch.

  • lunaseamaryland

    “Public Plan For Malpractice
    A Vastly Expanded Federal Tort Claims Act Would Protect Both Doctors And Patients
    September 22, 2009|By Heather R. Mizeur
    Almost any doctor will readily offer up horror stories of trying to find and pay for medical malpractice insurance. Such policies are cost-prohibitive and increasingly scarce, and require many to practice “defensive medicine” – ordering extra precautionary tests and procedures that contribute mightily to the rise in health costs.

    A growing number of policymakers are calling for a cap on medical malpractice awards as a partial solution to the national health care debate. Rooting out frivolous lawsuits is a laudable goal, but limiting damage awards for patients who have been wronged is akin to fixing a broken leg with a band-aid. High-dollar, juror-granted purses are not the only drivers of professional liability costs for doctors; much can be blamed on the greedy practices of medical malpractice insurance companies. The time has come to cut the middleman out of the equation.

    Some health care providers have already done this, but at great personal and professional peril. Doctors who self-insure against potential malpractice claims are “naked” in their practices because of their exposure to high risk. We must replace the risk with rewards to incentivize more providers to forgo private medical malpractice insurance and to instead rely on a government-securitized option.

    The basic model already exists – we just need to build upon it. Primary-care providers who practice at federally qualified health centers do not need to purchase medical malpractice insurance. Why? The government promises to cover any claims against them under the Federal Tort Claims Act. If a patient has a successful malpractice case against the health center provider, the government becomes the insurer and agrees to pay the claim.

    The national health reform debate should include a proposal to expand Federal Tort Claims Act coverage to all primary care providers, regardless of where they practice, and to certain specialists (such as obstetricians) where access to care is threatened. Doing so would have multiple benefits: Doctors, nurse practitioners and other primary care providers would be freed from the burdens of finding and paying for costly malpractice insurance; future medical students would have an incentive to choose primary care, addressing a critical shortage; and we would finally begin to bend the “cost curve” in health care.”

    This is from an opinion piece by Delegate Heather Mizeur of Maryland in the Baltimore Sun:

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2009-09-22/news/0909210055_1_medical-malpractice-insurance-tort-claims-health-care-providers

  • kathy

    Obama has to have something he can offer publicly to the Republicans, even if it’s to point out how they are unmoved by any offers.

    At the same time, if there are Republicans he thinks he can win over, this would give them a way to save face. Obama is primarily interested in getting a bill, not primarily interested in rubbing the Republicans nose in it. (Though if he can do both at the same time he’d probably be thrilled)

  • square1

    Average Americans need to realize that standing between them and insurance companies denying payment for necessary medical services are a doctor’s fear of a lawsuit.

    Right now, if an insurance company that tells a doctor not to perform a test or procedure and the failure turns out to be malpractice, the insurance company is not exposed to liability. But if the doctor believes the test or procedure is medically indicated, the doctor will still perform the test or procedure even if he or she does not get paid for it.

    But what do people think will happen if malpractice exposure is dramatically scaled back? Medical insurance carriers will still continue to deny approval left and right. The doctors, having been freed up from legal liability for medical errors, will go along with the health insurance carriers negligent decisions.

    I can’t wait for the day when a surgeon leaves a tool inside a patient and then the patient gets hit for an additional co-pay for the cost of the tool.

  • grape_crush

    …the doctor will still perform the test or procedure even if he or she does not get paid for it.
    .
    That’s part of it. The other part is that, to increase revenue, doctors are purchasing their own high-end equipment like MRI machines and directing their patients to be tested in the doctors’ own facilities. There’s more of an incentive to order additional testing when you profit from the operation of the testing facility.

  • stuartzechman

    to increase revenue, doctors are purchasing their own high-end equipment like MRI machines and directing their patients to be tested in the doctors’ own facilities. There’s more of an incentive to order additional testing when you profit from the operation of the testing facility.

    Yes, but that should, in a rational market, mean that the price of such equipment and procedures shouldn’t continue to skyrocket upward.
    .
    If there were much more limited access to MRI’s, then they should be correspondingly expensive. When there are more MRI’s sold, more of them produced in anticipation of sales trends, and then more of the procedures performed, and access increased, then the price should drop or at least start to flatten out, but that hasn’t happened.
    .
    Well, it hasn’t happened here, although it’s certainly happened in other high-tech countries like Japan.
    .
    Something else is going on.

  • square1

    Stuart is absolutely right. When you are trying to recoup the sunk costs of an MRI machine, fewer exams means higher prices per exam. This is why i get ticked off when KT regurgitates the CW that the answer to all of our problems is fewer medical procedures.
    .
    A major reason that Japan’s MRI costs are lower is because they pay significantly less per machine. They don’t need to charge $2k for an MRI when the machine costs less and they use it more often per capita.
    .
    One of my real annoyances with the HCR sausage making is that the Democrats totally failed to have any meaningful hearings on any issues. Are the higher costs of scanning equipment in the U.S. something that could be fixed with more anti-trust oversight? Who knows? Nobody asked.
    .
    Rather than subsidizing individual health insurance purchases, I would prefer to see the government subsidize “medical infrastructure” by purchasing MORE machines, computers, etc. (with the government’s near-monopsonistic purchasing power).

  • sasquatch08

    “California has had it since the ’70s. Last week we were talking about massive premium increases — in California. It doesn’t work.”
    .
    “It didn’t work in TX”
    .
    Both of these statements are incorrect.
    .
    Firstly, yes tort reform is a minor part of the overall cost of healthcare depending on how you look at the numbers. If you talk solely about the cost to doctors in terms of the money they have to pony up to malpractice insurers it is a true statement. However when you take into account the number of extra tests conducted by doctors who fear lawsuits because they missed something it starts to add up to real money. While this is anecdotal: I went to the doctor because I was having trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. Blood work was done because this could have been an issue with my thyroid; however they took 5 samples of blood from me and ran a full screen for things that were pointless such as an HIV test and a broad spectrum test for other STD’s as well as diabetes and a host of other diseases. Even though I had no other symptoms of anything they checked for and I had just had an HIV and STD test as part of my yearly physical not more than a month before this occurred. Why wouldn’t the doctor/lab take my word for it when I said that I hadn’t had sex with anyone in the past month that I hadn’t had sex with before (i.e. my girlfriend). She was not present and as such with doctor-patient privilege she would not have been informed even if I had admitted to some sort of affair. Not to mention that if I had contracted HIV there wouldn’t be any symptoms for months in the future. I asked why this was done and my doctor told me that it was SOP (standard operating procedure) to avoid lawsuits just in case I lied and therefore wasn’t tested for the proper things. If I lie to my doctor or intentionally omit information how is that his or the labs fault? Even if I had contracted HIV it wouldn’t have had anything to do with my sleep disturbances. Clearly these tests cost something, because they sure as hell weren’t free (at least according to the itemized statement from my insurance company). But then, I’m sure that the company simply made up those numbers with the help of the doctor to gouge me for more money on my premium.
    .
    These threats of junk lawsuits do drive up costs, and California didn’t really enstate anything that I would call “real tort reform”. Capping the maximum on punitive damages is a good start but it needs to be accompanied by a law that says if you file a frivolous lawsuit against a doctor you pay not only your legal fees, but also 100% of court costs and the defendants’ legal fees as well. Further lawyers should not be allowed to file lawsuits in any sector of business to take a case and say “I only get paid if we win”, rather if you want to sue it should cost you something to make sure that people have “skin in the game”.
    .
    On the issue of Texas, apparently it did do something because in my current state of residence (Ohio) we are losing OBGYN’s and anesthesiologists like wild fire due to the threat of lawsuits. Where are they going? Recent stats out of Columbus (our capital) say that the majority are heading to Texas due to the restrictions on lawsuits in that state. The rest are simply retiring, many retiring early because the cost of doing business is just too high.

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    It’s too bad that Dell doesn’t make less computers to put on the market, so that the price of computers can be lower.
    .
    It’s also a shame that organizations like TIME started to buy so many computers from companies like Dell, because that’s when the price of computers really took off.
    .
    And then the real explosion in computer prices occurred when all kinds of small businesses started to try to gain a competitive edge by purchasing and using computers themselves, instead of sending their paperwork to other firms to process, or just not doing certain tasks at all.

    If only all of those millions of small businesses hadn’t started to buy all of those computers! If only they had said to themselves “our offices don’t need to have everything,” then I’m sure the price of computers would have eventually become affordable. Access to computers should be strictly limited through the imposition of Federal tax initiatives, so that they remain the luxury of the very largest firms –that way prices will stay low.
    .
    There’s something wrong with my theory, isn’t there, KT? Aren’t a couple of key items missing?

  • stuartzechman

    I guess KT used her superpowers to remove her reply I just lambasted…

  • earljr1

    “Republicans could care less if they are killing people” pafro, I find that statement highly repugnant and insanely offensive. Perhaps you should start checking at the reception desk on what political persuasion your Doctor holds. You are going to be surprised more often than not. Doctor’s are first and foremost, realists. There is no room for fabrication and distortion in our lives, our profession deals only with reality and acts accordingly. Tort reform is essential if there is going to be meaningful health care reform. It is a critical part of the element driving up cost and most professionals are cognizant of this fact. It is only ONE of the issues, I agree, but it most certainly NEEDS to be addressed.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    Sorry, SZ, technology glitch. What I was trying to say before the computer ate it was that part of the problem, cost-wise, has been a technology arms race, with a lot of duplication. Every hospital/dr’s office that invests in this stuff then has an expected level of income. And because it all gets reimbursed by a third party, they can get it. Health care economics, in many ways, works the exact opposite of traditional supply and demand.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    SZ: Health care is not a rational market. All the bills get paid by a third party.

  • square1

    I’ve said this before, so I apologize if I sound like a broken record. But it is really silly to talk about “tort reform” or “malpractice” reform without talking about the specific problem that is being addressed or the specific solution being proposed.

    For example, all of the following are “problems” that reformers have sought to address. But all of them require different solutions.

    1. Too many unmeritorious lawsuits are filed, even if they are ultimately dismissed.

    2. Too many unmeritorious lawsuits make it to trial, even if the juries eventually find against the plaintiffs.

    3. Too many unmeritorious lawsuits result in liability verdicts for plaintiffs.

    4. The costs of litigating meritorious costs are too great.

    5. The verdicts rendered by juries in meritorious cases are too large.

    6. The threat of litigation results in negative externalities in the provision of health care (e.g. over testing).

    Even assuming that all of the above are significant problems (and I do not agree that they are, although any system should always be improved upon), each problem requires a different solution or set of solutions.

    Making it harder to commence a lawsuit will not reduce the number of “windfall” verdicts in meritorious cases. Nor will capping damage awards significantly reduce the incentive to bring an unmeritorious case.

    Often the proposals that I have seen people suggest for “reform” are ideas that are already implemented in most if not all states. For example, KT once suggested that a doctor or doctors should have to review a claim in order to bring a lawsuit. Hello? That’s already the situation in many if not most states. Even in a state that doesn’t have that requirement, no case in any state will survive a motion for summary judgment before trial without a doctor swearing that malpractice occurred.

    The reality is that there already significant barriers to bringing “frivolous” malpractice claims:

    1. Damage caps.

    2. Reduced attorneys’ fees in malpractice actions.

    3. Costly pretrial depositions of doctors and experts.

    4. Costly medical expert reviews and reports.

    5. Huge trial costs.

    6. Difficulty of settling pretrial if the doctor must approve the settlement.

    7. Jurors who think all trial lawyers are scum and all cases are frivolous.

  • square1

    I asked why this was done and my doctor told me that it was SOP (standard operating procedure) to avoid lawsuits just in case I lied and therefore wasn’t tested for the proper things.
    .
    Here’s the thing. A pointless test from a medical perspective does NOTHING to protect you from a lawsuit. I think that doctors and medical facilities like to use the threat of lawsuits as an excuse for ordering profit-enhancing tests. What is your doctor going to say, “hey, we’re just engaging in insurance fraud!”
    .
    I am genuinely curious to see a study that compares the number of tests ordered by paid-for-service doctors and the number ordered by salaried doctors.
    .
    The fact is that if doctors actually think that ordering unnecessary tests protects them from lawsuits they are wrong:

    “Doctor, isn’t it true that you never looked at the CT scan showing the malignant tumor that was growing in my client’s brain because you left early for a ski trip to Aspen?”
    .
    “No, I didn’t look at the CT scan, but I did order an unrelated HIV test!”

    .
    Pointless tests aren’t extra impressive when revealed in a courtroom.
    .
    If doctors really believe this then I would suggest that rather than “reforming” the tort system that states provide free risk-management courses to doctors to educate them on what really reduces the risk of lawsuits.

  • stuartzechman

    KT:

    because it all gets reimbursed by a third party, they can get it. Health care economics, in many ways, works the exact opposite of traditional supply and demand.

    Brava, you’ve just named one of the “key items” –third party payors– missing from that theory, but (as usual) you seem to have been unable to name the second one: pricing schedules.
    .
    Here’s a very rough description of what you’ve just said:

    A) there are 10 people in the United States
    .
    B) the price of an MRI is $100 per procedure
    .
    C) because of a lack of availability of MRI machines, only one person was prescribed access in year 20XX
    .
    D) the cost of health care in year 20XX is $200 per person, the sum of $100 for the one MRI patient, plus $10 apiece otherwise
    .
    E) In the year 20XY, 9 more doctors obtain MRI machines
    .
    F) In the year 20XY, all 10 of the people in the United States are prescribed MRI’s, so that all 10 doctors can make up the cost of the machines to their offices
    .
    G) the cost of health care in year 20XX is $1100 per person, the sum of $1000 for all 10 MRI patients, plus $10 apiece otherwise

    If those were the only facts, then, yes, the health care cost problem would be exactly as you describe it, KT.
    .
    But notice something interesting about that description?
    .
    1) From year 20XX to 20XY, the price of an MRI stayed the same at $100.
    .
    2) All 10 doctors charged the same price of $100
    .
    Unfortunately, in the United States, at least, neither of those things are true.
    .
    If the price of an MRI goes up between year 20XX and 20XY from $100 to $200 per patient, then the cost per person in 20XY will be $2100, but the reason will be something other than the number of MRI’s, right?
    .
    The number of MRI’s will certainly be a contributing factor –of course, more MRI’s means more scans at double the price– but the real explosion in cost has to do with the price increase not the number of scans.
    .
    What if it’s worse, though? What if the 2) scenario was the case? What if doctors charged wildly different prices for MRI’s?
    .
    What if 2 of those MRI’s cost $1000 per patient, and the rest cost $200 in year 20XY?
    .
    Suddenly, that’s $3600 per year. Great variations in the price of each unit of care can significantly compound the problem, KT.
    .
    But how could doctors in one place charge significantly higher prices than another? Is that possible?
    .
    Because of our insane system, it’s very, very hard to get pricing for MRI’s in the United States, but here’s one example, KT.
    .
    At this link (link to NY head MRI pricing), you’ll find that an MRI in Manhattan, most likely home of the most MRI’s per person, is $520.
    .
    At this next link (link to Arkansas head MRI pricing), you’ll find that an MRI in Blanche Lincoln’s Arkansas costs almost double, at $931.
    .
    But wait! What about somewhere similar to Arkansas, like Alabama (link to Alabama head MRI pricing), or somewhere tiny, like Delaware (link to Delaware head MRI pricing)?
    .
    Well unfortunately for that rough description of yours, KT, Alabama has New York pricing at $545, and Delaware is in between at $695.
    .
    It is pretty clear that there are wild discrepancies between the prices of MRIs between the states, KT, and there are sure to be enormous variations even between states.
    .
    All of this is to say that your theory of “Health care economics” is missing a gigantic piece of the cost puzzle, KT, and that’s price.
    .
    If the variations on price were brought under control by Federal pricing schedules, and the year-by-year price inflation was also brought under control by Federal pricing schedules, and all third party payers (private and Medicare/Medicaid) paid a predictable, steady, Germany-level price for each MRI procedure, then the traditional supply-and-demand mechanism would work, at least to keep the price of MRI equipment for doctors down the way it should, while keeping the price of insurance down for the rest of us.
    .
    Make sense, KT?

  • spob

    Lessee, we know why malpractice reform wasn’t in the deal beforehand–basically, the Dems are owned by the trial bar. And now, we’re going to jam through something which impacts how injured Americans are compensated? Um, some hearings please. I believe in tort reform–I also believe in the right of injured people to get compensated for their injuries.

  • stuartzechman

    Sorry, that should have been there are sure to be enormous variations even within states.

  • square1

    A $500 MRI in NYC? First time I’ve heard of that. I think the average price must be around $1500.
    .
    Obviously it will be more at a hospital (supply and demand) and less at a stand-alone radiology facility or clinic.

  • stuartzechman

    You’re right, the price will be higher at a hospital, one of the many, many problems with putting a list of prices together for procedures.
    .
    It’s insane.
    .
    The price of an MRI for the head can be completely different than another body part.
    .
    (sigh)
    .
    I’ll go check the source, and see if they’re way off, for some reason.

  • sasquatch08

    square1:

    Actually it DOES protect you from a lawsuit.
    .
    People sue all the time for things that doctors missed because they weren’t looking for it. If i did in fact have HIV, I could sue my doctor for not finding it if I developed full blown AIDS if he did blood work on me but didn’t run an HIV test on me in this case.
    .
    This is why doctors run pointless tests, they have to “look” for everything no matter what your symptoms are because if they know that based on your symptoms you have a 0.00001% chance of brain cancer they are open to a lawsuit if they don’t look for it, simply because there was a “risk” of brain cancer. It doesn’t matter that it’s 0.00001%, it’s not 0% and therefore they may be sued for negligence and malpractice for not “finding” it when you come in for some unrelated problem.

  • stuartzechman

    Holy God!
    .
    You’ve got to go see this!
    .
    So I’m using a service called “My Medical Costs” to price a no-dye brain MRI (the closest to the head/brain MRI prices I quoted above, although more and more the above prices seem like a scam, because they have disclaimers like “call us for a quote”), and the rates that come back prove my point entirely:
    .
    https://www.mymedicalcosts.com/Pricing.aspx
    .

    I chose the “Identify your services”.
    .
    I selected “MRA/MRI” from the first panel of choices, then “MRI brain, no-dye” from the third (leaving the second blank), and then input “New York, NY” for step 4, and voila:
    .
    “Participating Providers” came back with low, average and high: “$618, $618, $618 ”
    .
    “Hospital Outpatient” came back with low, average and high: “$1689, $1809, $2976″
    .
    and “IDTF/Office” came back with low, average and high:
    “$921, $1005, $1840″
    .
    That’s some discrepancy in prices, alright.
    .
    This is crazy.
    .
    We have a very, very screwed up system of pricing in this country.

  • sasquatch08

    “The reality is that there already significant barriers to bringing “frivolous” malpractice claims:

    1. Damage caps.

    2. Reduced attorneys’ fees in malpractice actions.

    3. Costly pretrial depositions of doctors and experts.

    4. Costly medical expert reviews and reports.

    5. Huge trial costs.

    6. Difficulty of settling pretrial if the doctor must approve the settlement.

    7. Jurors who think all trial lawyers are scum and all cases are frivolous.”

    Facts tend to get in the way of your line of argument:

    1) Damage caps don’t exist is most states as you seem to suggest, and do not exist in the federal system.

    2) Attorney’s fee’s in malpractice cases are regularly 25% and above. John Edwards made MILLIONS suing doctors and still won’t divulge how much exactly he made.

    3) You usually don’t pay those costs as the plaintiff because the lawyers practice covers it when they are paid on contingency.

    4) See 3.

    5) See 3.

    6) Why are almost all cases settled out of court then, and still for massive amounts of money the plaintiff usually doesn’t deserve? The truth is that doctors settle for 10 million rather than face even the possibility of being on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars.

    7) This is BS. A jury awarded a woman millions of dollars in the late 1990′s because she was stupid enough to spill coffee on herself and then bitch that it hot. This was reversed on appeal, but your statement still doesn’t hold water.

    Seriously. What is wrong with saying that if a judge thinks you intentionally brought a junk lawsuit into his courtroom he can order you to pay any and all costs associated with the suit?

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    So sqr1 responded below to my NYC MRI quotes, saying that they were way too low (the credibility of my numbers being important to my arguments, you know), and so I did more pricing research, and came back with this, reprinted from below:

    So I’m using a service called “My Medical Costs” to price a no-dye brain MRI (the closest to the head/brain MRI prices I quoted above, although more and more the above prices seem like a scam, because they have disclaimers like “call us for a quote”), and the rates that come back prove my point entirely:
    .
    https://www.mymedicalcosts.com/Pricing.aspx
    .

    I chose the “Identify your services”.
    .
    I selected “MRA/MRI” from the first panel of choices, then “MRI brain, no-dye” from the third (leaving the second blank), and then input “New York, NY” for step 4, and voila:
    .
    “Participating Providers” came back with low, average and high: “$618, $618, $618 ”
    .
    “Hospital Outpatient” came back with low, average and high: “$1689, $1809, $2976″
    .
    and “IDTF/Office” came back with low, average and high:
    “$921, $1005, $1840″
    .
    That’s some discrepancy in prices, alright.

    If you don’t account for price, then you can’t fix the problem of health care.

  • pafro

    So Earl J. Wingnut, maybe you should pay attention to what I wrote. I didn’t say a thing about doctors negative, except that the boards of them charged with policing their industry protect other doctors that they should not because getting rid of bad doctors would help them all.
    I said Republicans don’t mind killing people, but that was really an aside because my real point was that Republicans have no intention of doing any sort of real tort reform, they just want to cap lawsuits because if they can establish a beachhead by capping lawsuits in medical suits, they can spread that to pollution suits and the workplace and poisonous toys and all matter of nasty places.

  • pafro

    And sure enough, 6 hours after I note that what Republicans want IS NOT tort reform but merely lawsuit caps, Kevin Drum says the same thing:
    http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/02/elusive-common-ground

  • kevin

    My pleasure. But the credit should go to KT for the great article. When I went back to find it, I didn’t realize she’d been the one who wrote it.

  • sasquatch08

    “The reality is that there already significant barriers to bringing “frivolous” malpractice claims:

    1. Damage caps.

    2. Reduced attorneys’ fees in malpractice actions.

    3. Costly pretrial depositions of doctors and experts.

    4. Costly medical expert reviews and reports.

    5. Huge trial costs.

    6. Difficulty of settling pretrial if the doctor must approve the settlement.

    7. Jurors who think all trial lawyers are scum and all cases are frivolous.”

    Facts tend to get in the way of your line of argument:

    1) Damage caps don’t exist is most states as you seem to suggest, and do not exist in the federal system.

    2) Attorney’s fee’s in malpractice cases are regularly 25% and above. John Edwards made MILLIONS suing doctors and still won’t divulge how much exactly he made.

    3) You usually don’t pay those costs as the plaintiff because the lawyers practice covers it when they are paid on contingency.

    4) See 3.

    5) See 3.

    6) Why are almost all cases settled out of court then, and still for massive amounts of money the plaintiff usually doesn’t deserve? The truth is that doctors settle for 10 million rather than face even the possibility of being on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars.

    7) This is BS. A jury awarded a woman millions of dollars in the late 1990′s because she was stupid enough to spill coffee on herself and then complain that it hot. This was reversed on appeal, but your statement still doesn’t hold water.

    Seriously. What is wrong with saying that if a judge thinks you intentionally brought a junk lawsuit into his courtroom he can order you to pay any and all costs associated with the suit?

  • 3xfire3

    earljr1,

    I don’t know about you but I think it’s getting to be a waste of time for independents, moderates or conservatives to post to this site. Almost all the people making comments, including the Time Reporters, are brain died Liberals that will not accept or respect anything that doesn’t fit their view of the world. Since you can’t reason with them it makes no sense to keep making the effort. It appears that the only purpose of this site is for Liberals and Ultra-Liberals to talk to each other and take great joy is distorting the truth together.
    Their minds are totally closed. I’m personally going to take a break from this site. I may check back in the future. But then again I may not. Fortunately they are a small minority of our citizens and the vast majority of Americans have little use for them.

  • sasquatch08

    3xfire3:

    I dunno, it’s sorta fun. Personally I’m generally not a conservative, but what earljr1 would probably call a “realist”.

    When I say it’s sorta fun what I mean is that I try my hardest to interject facts into a conversation which appears to be mainly leftist and rightist talking points with no substance, and many times the thread simply stops with me because most of these people don’t have any facts or substances to debate me back. I also try my hardest to be respectful of people on here, and I find it distasteful when people on here bandy about terms like “idiot” and “moron” simply because someone else has a reasonable disagreement with them.

    That said, I agree that some days this site does seem to exist only for the purpose of “…Liberals and Ultra-Liberals to talk to each other and take great joy in distorting the truth together”.

  • mkirschmd

    New York Times yesterday summarized the agenda of the make believe health care summit meeting to take place tomorrow. No mention of tort reform. So much for ‘All the News That’s Fit to Print’. The meeting of course, is a sham, scripted political theater. What do physicians think? See http://www.MDWhistleblower.blogspot.com under Legal Quality.

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