Today’s Health Care Checkup

By all means, now that we have a chance to get a vote on something that will actually impact the cost and quality of healthcare in this country in a substantial way…
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Let’s just worry about what will pass the Senate, about what Presidents Snowe, Collins, Lincoln, Landrieu and Nelson will support.
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That search for the support of these clowns worked out so well in the past, didn’t it?
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If we have to, cancel recess, play time and cut back on the snacks for these children. Make them sit in the corner or write an apology on the blackboard 100 times. Send a note home to their parents saying they don’t play well with others.
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It’s what you do with uncooperative kindergarteners.

So now there is no incentive whatsoever for Republicans to actively participate in this “bipartisan” health care summit. They’ll have to show up, but this plan gives them a ready excuse to shun cooperation.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

“the public option is too politically dangerous to even consider”
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What ? The Republicans might call them names? It should be too hot for them not to consider.

…but this plan gives them a ready excuse to shun cooperation
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And this is different how? Cantor is already telling the Tea Bag crowd he’s going to say no to HCR.
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They already have the excuse they need – the sun rose this morning.

“”the public option is too politically dangerous to even consider”
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What ? The Republicans might call them names? It should be too hot for them not to consider.”
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The Republicans probably will call them names, but it’s too dangerous because it will take the Dems off a cliff in the next election.

The Republicans have refused to put forth a bill of their own; Cantor’s said they will fight to kill any HCR bill; and of all the Republicans invited to the bipartisan session — the one that they themselves insisted upon — only Mike Enzi has accepted the invitation.
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Seems like they’ve already shunned cooperation.

Really?
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I’m not sure if it’s been polled lately, but there certainly seemed to be political support for the public option last fall. This is from the October 2009 ABC/WaPo poll:
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On the issue that has been perhaps the most pronounced flash point in the national debate, 57 percent of all Americans now favor a public insurance option, while 40 percent oppose it. Support has risen since mid-August, when a bare majority, 52 percent, said they favored it. (In a June Post-ABC poll, support was 62 percent.)
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If a public plan were run by the states and available only to those who lack affordable private options, support for it jumps to 76 percent. Under those circumstances, even a majority of Republicans, 56 percent, would be in favor of it, about double their level of support without such a limitation.
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Doesn’t really sound like political kryptonite, does it?
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/19/AR2009101902451.html

Here’s a Reuters poll from December 2009:
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Just under 60 percent of those surveyed said they would like a public option as part of any final healthcare reform legislation, which Republicans and a few Democrats oppose.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B20OL20091203

but it’s too dangerous because it will take the Dems off a cliff in the next election.
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So, they ran on health care reform in the last election and won but, if they actually try to follow through on something that would REALLY fulfill that promise, they lose?
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Got news for you… they’re getting killed right now because they HAVEN’T followed through – on too many things. Even the so-called GOP strategists say real HCR works to the advantage of the Dems if it’s passed. It’s why they are so hard against it.
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Nice concern trolling there…

Should have been a response to 4.

Yes, you’re really going to need to explain, from where does this great political danger arise since it appears to have nothing to do with the voters?

Good Anthem Blue Cross piece KP but I have a question about this part-

“Waxman, in a follow-up letter to WellPoint, asked the company to explain why data show that it had more individually insured customers in California in 2009 than in 2008. But it’s not just the total number of customers that determines rates in a risk pool — the health of those customers also matters. It’s also not surprising that more people are enrolling in individual coverage with the unemployment rate high and people losing job-based insurance”
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When this KT first wrote about this I asked her the same thing that Waxman wondered about.
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Is the counter argument yours or Anthem’s? And is demonstrated or just asserted?

The “It’s also not surprising” phrasing makes it sound more like an “oh well everyone knows” arguement.

What are you talking about?

shepherd,
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It’s “of great political danger” to the GOP.

I am thinking that their lack of action is already taking them off the cliff, but then again politicians are so entrenched I am not sure we can get rid of them.

“It’s “of great political danger” to the GOP.”
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Yes, and the idea that we should keep letting the insurance and pharmaceutical industries run the country off a fiscal cliff. Big time political danger there. What other “too dangerous to even consider” political risk for a Democrat are we talking about, Kate Pickert?

Actually it is surprising. Suddenly unemployed people are not going to find money for private health insurance. High unemployment would, it seems drive people away from private insurers and towards Medicaid.

kevin,
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I think that it may have to reach the point that they are just too embarrassed to be there any more.
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Knowing how delicate their sensibilities are, if it reaches the point that someone wants to urinate on them or spit on their shoes when they find out they are a Senator, they’ll leave.
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Not good for the country, but I don’t hold a whole lot of hope that they will be voted out of office by an enlightened, informed (ha! – by THIS media??) electorate.
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More likely will be a generic “push the handle and flush them ALL out” tidal wave.

That’s an interesting point destor.
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My hunch is that they exaggerated at best, lied at worst, and knew that either way the increase would be legal as KP’s story points out.

Kate have you or Karen asked any of the senators that are signing on for Public Option under reconciliation why they are doing this?

Do you know if Bernie Sanders is correct when he says under the rules they can also include education ?

My hunch is that they exaggerated at best, lied at worst, and knew that either way the increase would be legal…
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P-NNTO,
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Both? They’re not worrying about PR concerns right now. CA’s economy is imploding.
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Get the profits up NOW, then use some of those profits later in a massive marketing campaign to convince us that this was always about their continuing research to provide the best care in the world.
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Oh, and LOTS of air freshener to cover up the smell…

i think we’re talking about using a budget vote in the senate to amend the health bill. that only needs 51 votes. so of course, the most popular part of the legislation (public option) should be passed without all the will-it/won’t-it drama. i mean, that thing’s got like 76% support among the population.
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if it was about getting 60 votes, i’d say lay it off cuz you’re only wasting time. but once we start talking about budget reconciliation, the first order of things should a public option.

What Are They Going to Give up This Time?
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Greg Sargent says that the health care proposal that Obama will bring to the table to be negotiated downward by Republicans is the Senate bill with the House’s National Exchange and a slightly larger employer penalty when firms choose to drop their group plans and pay the fine.
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link to the Plum Line

Bottom line: It’s all but certain to have the Cadillac tax in it, even though House Dems oppose it, and no public option, aides say.
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The White House has arrived at a general outline of what this proposal will look like, a senior Dem leadership aide tells me. It will largely reflect the compromise reached between the House and Senate in January: It will likely contain the national exchange sought by House Dems, and tougher penalties on businesses that don’t insure workers.

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But, but, but!
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The Senate bill is already the result of months of compromise with Republicans!
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So: If they’re not bringing the public option that Presidents Snowe and Lieberman hated, and they’re leaving in the middle-class benefits tax hike that Presidents Shelby and Nelson loved, then they’re prepared to negotiate away…
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…the House’s National Exchange?
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Our Democratic leadership sure are geniuses at negotiating on our behalf, aren’t they?
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Maybe the Republicans will just present the Democrats with some glass beads, and Obama will hand over Manhattan Island and “Tort Reform” at that bipartisan “summit” next week.

Sorry, allthingsinaname, the response above was meant for you.

“They’re not worrying about PR concerns right now.”
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It’s really quite shocking, when you think about it. The timing and size of the increases, on the heals of huge profits and a national conversation on the unsustainability (at least among liberals) of the rise in costs in the ripe-for-reform system. It’s almost as if they no longer care what the public thinks. They’re acting exactly as if they own the whole ball of wax and have nothing to fear from “the people’s representatives.”

Makes want to pull for the GOP! Good God how did it come to this?
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We have to get rid of all these Dems.

“Makes want to pull for the GOP! Good God how did it come to this?”
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Good God, you just asked and answered your own question.

Stuart this is what I am afraid of. That is why I would like to know why they are signing on for Public Option in the senate. Does not make sense.
Dianne Feinstein signed this?

“Good God, you just asked and answered your own question.”

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No, you did! Yoiu are willing to compromise everything you want just to elect someone who claims to be a Dem. but will not deliver.

shepherd,
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Almost like they are counting on the “mandate” to be part of what passes, isn’t it?
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If that happens, who cares what we think? We’re stuck with their sorry a$$es, piss-poor service and all.

caroltexas1,
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Given her track record of voting for issues of questionable public good (e.g. retro telecomm immunity), if she’s FOR it, what’s wrong with it that we’re not hearing about or seeing?

…why they are signing on for Public Option in the senate. Does not make sense.

Perhaps it’s an opportunity for more meaningless symbolism thrown our way? It’s to help us differentiate between Senate Democrats and Republicans in a way that doesn’t actually produce any policy? Maybe they’re getting an inkling of the disillusionment that’s waiting at home for them?
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I have no idea, honestly.
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Both chambers of Congress consider meaningless resolutions that are never voted on all the time. Sounds like one, to me, but what do I know? They seem to operate according to their own laws of physics.

You know, I talk to people on the street ALL the time, every day probably. Everyone looks at what’s happening on both sides as ridiculous. The Dems are not getting killed (according to middle America) because they haven’t PUSHED it through, it’s because what they’re pushing through is 2000+ pages of crap. We were also sick of bailouts with Bush, and legislators and judges that are giving the people what they want whether it’s fiscally responsible or not. Do you really intellectually saavy people believe that the 2000+ pages of crap was about helping the small, downtrodden person? That it isn’t more about union power brokers, big money (from the other side of the isle like GE), etc and personal pride and vain ambition? People, join the bi-partisan, non-partisan tea party effort that seeks to help everyone back in their own seatbelt, live their own lives, take responsibility for their own health, prosperity, suffer when they must, talk to their neighbor, friends, community, and connect and make a difference on a LOCAL level. I am just amazed to hear these conversations where you all STILL BELIEVE that Washington can do right for you MORE than you and your families can do right for you. If I counted on Washington to solve my problems I would count myself a fool. How long will it take for the codependent America to wake up and realize that they’re dancing around an alcoholic government and it’s time to set some better boundaries? Read “Codependent No More” people. You’re an addict now too.

People who are out of work are turning to the individual market AND Medicaid. Indeed, enrollment in Medicaid is growing at a record pace right now http://www.kff.org/medicaid/kcmu021810nr.cfm

But don’t assume that just because someone gets laid off that they are instantly poor enough to qualify for Medicaid or that they can’t afford individual insurance. A spouse’s income, savings or self-employment income might still be available to spend on insurance.

As far as Anthem goes, Waxman was implying in his letter that enrollment numbers on Anthem’s books contradict the company’s assessment that healthy people have been leaving their risk pool. I was pointing out that the size of a risk pool is not everything. For example, a healthy 2,000-person risk pool would be cheaper to insure member by member than an unhealthy 20,000 risk pool. I encourage you to click on the link and read Waxman’s letter for further explanation.

And as for my statement that the public option is “politically dangerous,” what I mean is that the public option has been a prime target for demagoguery. It’s very easy for Republicans to use the public option as ammunition for their assertion that the Democratic plan is a “government takeover.” This isn’t really fair – less than 5 million people might voluntarily enroll in the public option under its last iteration – but it’s still a political hot potato.

“Perhaps it’s an opportunity for more meaningless symbolism thrown our way?”
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I think ou hit it on the head

“Perhaps it’s an opportunity for more meaningless symbolism thrown our way?”
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I think you hit it on the head

Firstly KP thank you very much for responding to our questions.
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It does sound as if there hasn’t been any actual evidence that the reason Anthem gave for their rate increase is true.
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You provide scenerios where it *could* be true but as Anthem is the party that used that reasoning they ought to be able to provide some numbers.
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Unless they can’t.
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It’s very easy for Republicans to use the public option as ammunition for their assertion that the Democratic plan is a “government takeover.” This isn’t really fair – less than 5 million people might voluntarily enroll in the public option under its last iteration – but it’s still a political hot potato.

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Nonesense. If it the public likes it and they do then it can’t easily be demagogued by Republicans (i.e., it’s not a “hot potato”). Has it occurred to you that when “conservative” Democrats claim that they don’t support a public option because it’s too politically risky, they might be lying? And just how do you present a cogent explanation of the political opposition to the public option without even mentioning the influence of insurance and pharmaceutical industry money and lobbying?

I just pray to God that they’re not stupid enough to think this:

Perhaps it’s an opportunity for more meaningless symbolism thrown our way…

…will fix this:

…[m]aybe they’re getting an inkling of the disillusionment that’s waiting at home for them?

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After what happened when they yanked the PO from the Senate bill, what kind of political idiot would think that raising it from the dead and then killing it once and for all would do anything but stoke that very disillusionment? I guess we’re about to find out.

re 6.6
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Kate–
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The only place where there is political risk to guaranteeing health care to all Americans at a lower cost through a public option is within the Beltway. The idea that the Republicans can use this as a political weapon is absurd. Indeed, if it were the case that a public option would be politically advantageous to them, then they wouldn’t filibuster the bill. They would joyously vote against it, see it pass and then sweep to victory on the power of their socialism smears.
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But that is NOT what they are doing. As Kristol wrote in his famous 1994 memo, passing an effective health care program that actually did things like save people’s lives and unleash entrepreneurs would be a death knell for a party already in deep trouble.
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The media is guilty of an epic failure on this story. Why is it that Democrats cannot pull together and pass a good bill? Could it have something to do with the Billy Tauzin/Tom Daschle post elected office career options?
It is certainly not because good, sound effective policy is bad politics.

A Jackass needs to be whipped to till the soil.

“The media is guilty of an epic failure on this story. Why is it that Democrats cannot pull together and pass a good bill? Could it have something to do with the Billy Tauzin/Tom Daschle post elected office career options?”
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I just can’t decide how much of it is that it’s a career risk to talk about what really drives this crap, as opposed to catapulting politicians lies about what’s driving it, and how much of it is that Beltway journos simply accept as a starting proposition that our government is so completely controlled by corporate money and influence that it’s considered an immutable, even “normal” condition, when it’s noticed at all.

shepherdwong:
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I’ve been reading stuff lately online from Democrats and liberals that makes our disillusionment seem like a von Trapp Family Singers reunion concert.
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Yes, we’re about to find out just how disillusioned people in hard times can get.

Karen: The risk the Dems take in not passing a public option is much greater than passing it. Polls still show people support a public option. If the Dems want support from the base and independents, both strongly in favor, than they must demonstrate some guts and do the really politically expedient thing and pass the public option.

“I’ve been reading stuff lately online from Democrats and liberals that makes our disillusionment seem like a von Trapp Family Singers reunion concert.”
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I’m guessing that they’re mostly pretty young. If you had your politics forged when our leaders were being assasinated by snipers and our cities were on fire, or even on the front lines during the opening salvos of the “Reagan Revolution”, you tend to be a little more sanguine. OTOH, the level of blatant corporate control of our entire government, including the Democratic Party, has become truly alarming. When Billmon gave up the fight, that’s when I started to worry. After FISA (telecom immunity), the bank bailout, Afghanistan policy and the HCR fight proved that the Obama and “centrist” wing of the Democratic Party were just as much corporatist conservative as the rest of the Beltway, and the political media is as much or even more corrupt in it’s failure to inform the people of what’s really going on, I’m beginning to think I may not be worried enough.

You know that DEMs are (psyops) retards If

your premium payments were jacked up astronomically recently;
and you and/or your sick grandma are likely to drop coverage you cannot afford now;
and, being vulnerable, you have received not a single junk mail or invite to a meeting from the DEMs to commiserate with you and ask you to support the HCR bill AND the public option that could have rescued you, your grandma,

then you know that DEMs are genuine (psyops) retards.

—————–thought for the day

Imagine the DEMs weighed down by the charge of wanting to kill grandma – by the GOPs who ARE known for cutting taxes (gov revenue) and cutting off funding (gov expenditure) on social programs!
Help!
Karl Rove is a renown PR (read, propaganda) professional. For a good price, he may be convinced to help the DEMs focus and sharpen their PR claws, eh, message. [Maybe not.]

When Billmon gave up the fight, that’s when I started to worry.
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It’s odd to hear somebody else say that.