The Austin Plane Attack: Terrorism?

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs told the press pool on Air Force One that the plane that crashed into an office tower in Austin does not appear to be an act of terrorism, though investigations are continuing. A White House official further clarifies to me that Gibbs was explaining that there do not seem to be ties between the pilot and foreign terrorist agents or organizations.

The question of what constitutes “terrorism” is often a tricky one to define in public discourse, where political and value judgments sometimes play a role. (The animal rights activists who pours fake blood on a fur coat and the street protester who throws a rock at a Nike Store both seem a far cry from an Islamic jihadi on a plane with a bomb in his underpants.) But the FBI, nonetheless, has a very clear and simple definition for what constitutes terrorism. To wit:

Domestic terrorism is the unlawful use, or threatened use, of force or violence by a group or individual based and operating entirely within the United States or Puerto Rico without foreign direction committed against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives.

So does a guy who writes an online rant about the IRS before committing unlawful violence count as a terrorist? Probably so, by the legal definition. The suspect alleged to have flown the plane, Joe Stack, appears to have written the following online:

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer.

UPDATE: The legal language in statute is slightly different, focusing on “acts dangerous to human life,” but that would still seem to fit in this case.

(5) the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that -
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation
of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended -
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by
intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass
destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of
the United States.
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  • destor23

    “The animal rights activists who pours fake blood on a fur coat and the street protester who throws a rock at a Nike Store both seem a far cry from an Islamic jihadi on a plane with a bomb in his underpants.”

    Okay… I guess. But Tim McVeigh was a terrorist, right? It’s about intent. Terrorism equals = attempted murder with the intent to spread fear. But then is a serial killer a terrorist?

    Or isn’t all this a bit silly? Maybe we should stop saying “not connected to terrorism” and start saying what we mean, “unrelated to those wars we’re fighting.”

  • afguy

    Was the pilot a brown-skinned person who spoke English funny? Did he have a copy of the Koran with him?
    .
    If not, no. After all, we have been told that you can tell a terrorist by his appearance.
    .
    If he was white, with a swastika tatoo, then he was just another patriotic American, upset with too much government interference in his life. Extra patriotic points for the number of guns in the plane with him.
    .
    See? Wasn’t that easy?

  • queencersei

    He purposely crashed a plane into an office building with the intent to do murder and mayhem. Yes, Virginia that is terrorism. Just cause the guy was white and born in the U.S. doesn’t mean it can’t be an act of terrorism.

  • hellslittlestangel

    He’s a suicide bomber. Or a homicide bomber, as his fellow government-haters like to style it.

  • queencersei

    Perhaps this was his way of reducing the size of government?

  • grape_crush

    Probably so, by the legal definition.

    ‘Threatened use’? Well, that means that this:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/17/idaho-tea-party-speaker-h_n_466261.html

    would count as a terrorist act, correct?

  • hellslittlestangel

    And in typical right-wing fashion, he flucked it up. But at least he reduced himself.

  • afguy

    Let me try to tackle the press release…
    .
    He was “a loving family man who was pushed over the edge by what has been happening to his beloved country, caused by the intrusive nature of BIG GOVERNMENT. He acted in the spirit of those who sacrificed all and founded this great country of ours.”
    .
    Yes, terrorist, most certainly, but some will NEVER see it that way.

  • afguy

    Yeah, destor23, McVeigh was a TEXTBOOK terrorist.
    .
    Problem was, he was also a WHITE American citizen.
    .
    There’s just a big segment of our society for which THAT is a whale-sized contradiction.

  • tstar3

    Actually the guy hated big govt, big insurance health companies and Bush…I guess he can’t fit into a box..i.e right/left winger

  • hellslittlestangel

    He was one of those patriots with whose blood the tree of liberty must occasionally be watered.

  • nflfoghorn

    I predict this guy was/is a tea partier gone mad.

  • http://www.simonvinkenoog.nl/beeld/Yogi%20-%20Annelies%20Rigter.jpg yogi

    So MS, did you press Gibbs on this? Not all terrorists are related working on some master plot. This guy was a terrorist, maybe not associated with anyone else, but he did a terrorist act.

  • square1

    Debating the semantics of the terms “terrorism” and “terrorist” strikes me as one of the least productive responses to this act.

    The fact is that Joseph Stack made very clear why he did what he did. And it is quite obvious that actions such as Stack’s will only become more frequent as (a) the economy sucks for the middle class and (b) people believe that the political and economic system is rigged against average Americans.

    I am far from defending Stack’s actions. I am simply pointing out that human behavior is often as predictable as natural events. As political corruption corruption increases, and as economic inequality increases, so will desperate acts of violence.

  • kryptik1

    PETA and the fake blood buckets may not get tagged with the ‘terrorism’ label, but don’t forget that we prosecuted folks like the Earth Liberation Front under terrorism laws, and that the last administration declared ‘Eco-terrorists’ the greatest domestic terrorism threat in the country.

    I guess it all depends on what you set fire to and crash into.

  • freeinpa

    I wonder if anyone considers a college professor who introduced a certain community organizer as a Senate Candidate a terrorist? In fact, Bill Ayers and most of the left wing nuts of the 60s were terrorists and Tea Party members are Cub Scouts by comparison.

  • formerlyjames

    Not that I think it matters, but maybe it would be helpful to define types of terrorism. This is not international religious terrorism (binladen). It is not American crazy militia movement terrorism (mcveigh). This would possibly be the first case of tea bag terrorism.

  • slowp

    Angry, violent, murderous right-wing psycho?
    .
    Dog bites man.
    .
    (ps: How long will it be before Limbaugh and Beck demand that Congress impeach Obama because he can’t keep the country safe from their anti-government, right-wing listeners?)

  • afguy

    Dunno, free, but having grown up in the ’60s, I don’t remember too many calling for the deaths of public officials (or overt violence against them) like some of the TP speakers do.
    .
    J. Edgar and the FBI would have been very quick to call them in for a little talking to. And they wouldn’t have been nice about it.
    .
    Some of the stuff being said today would have landed the speaker in hot water/prison then post haste.

  • afguy

    And the type of stuff Beck and Limbaugh routinely say would definitely not have gone over well with the FBI or Secret Service.

  • stuartzechman

    …and then come the organized acts of violence.

  • formerlyjames

    Or…maybe we can stop wringing hands over what is terrorism and just lump all of these disturbed people into the homicidal maniac category.

  • formerlyjames

    Right wingers often dig deep into their past and offer surprising but irrelevant insight into current events.

  • apollyon07

    What? There was a plane crash here today? Interesting!

  • the committee

    Hear, hear. Semantics is a distraction. Stack may have been a teabagger, but his complaints resonate. The case against calling him a terrorist is this: millions of people may identify with him, and it’s probably a bad idea to demonize all of them unnecessarily.

  • northpoleresident

    The man blew up a building by crashing an airplane into it. This is terrorism plain and simple. If he was muslim the outrage would be beyond control. The hypocrisy is to thick to cut through.

  • spob

    If we want to define crazies as terrorists because they wage a jihad against the IRS, fine.

  • kbanginmotown

    J. Edgar wiretapped a guy who kept talking about “Having a Dream”…radical stuff, that.

  • kbanginmotown

    1992: Ruby Ridge Idaho
    1993: Waco Standoff
    1995: Oklahoma City Bombing

    2010: Austin IRS Plane Attack
    .
    So, how many more domestic terrorist attacks are the wing nutters going to incite, this time?
    .

  • mikew67

    Of tax-welch extremism, Abe Lincoln would have said;
    “You can fool some of the people, ALL of the time”… ;^)
    – cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth

  • freeinpa

    afguy:

    Many folks can’t remember the happenings of the 60′s but that had more to do with substance abise than events or memories.

    I also doubt that the bile coming from Daily Kos, Huff Post, Olbermann, Schultz, Maher, Rosie O’Donnell, Jeanne Garofolo and others would be well received by the FBI either.

    How about the recent violence that Huff Post and CNN’s dimbulb Martin has suggested against those opposing Obama? Just another day for libs
    ==
    But this is my favorite”Right wingers often dig deep into their past and offer surprising but irrelevant insight into current events.”

    Things that left nut jobs do is always irrelevant or dug up from the past but they never tire of going into the past about conservatives.

    Who should we be more concerned with now? A dead cross dressing former FBI DIrector or a current President that has as friends radicals that has not only promoted violence against the government but also acted on it that still has access to the President?

    ==
    There may be radical right wing groups in this country but none that has access and influence on the Administration as the left wing nut jobs that are scattered throughout this adminstration.

  • textee

    Yes, this latest act by another Keith Olbermoronn clone is an act of terrorism. Like that “professor” in Alabama who recently murdered those people at the university, this guy is a run of the mill leftist loon and a fundamentalist atheist. He predictably denounces “presidential puppet GW Bush”, capitalism, “drug and insurance companies”, “big business”, the “corrupt Catholic church”, “the monsters of organized religion” and “the joke we call the American medical system”. Like any good leftist, he ends his screed by adoringly quoting Marx. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack6.html

    BTW, a pea-brained dimwit named Jonathan Capehart at the Washington Post claims that this leftist freak show freak got his marching orders from the tea parties. Are all leftists as stupid as Capehart? http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/02/_joseph_stack_was_angry.html

  • freeinpa

    Here is a reality flash for you. Ruby Ridge and Waco were acts of violence that Janet Reno ordered on folks.

    Federal marshalls shot and killed innocent woman and children in the case of Waco because of false information on the doings in the camp.

    ==
    Ruby Ridge also had a wife child and dog killed by Wild West Reno.

    And who can forget the picture of a semi-auto weapon being pulled in Florida on a child that Clinton sent back to Cuba.
    ==
    Seems like the only wars liberals like are against other Americans.

  • textee

    To answer my own question: Yes, evidently all leftists are as stupid as Capehart. Time magazine’s Hillary Hilton and evidently the other leftists at Time magazine are claiming that this communist, atheist pilot was a product of the Tea Parties. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1966476,00.html

  • sasquatch08

    “Debating the semantics of the terms “terrorism” and “terrorist” strikes me as one of the least productive responses to this act.
    The fact is that Joseph Stack made very clear why he did what he did. And it is quite obvious that actions such as Stack’s will only become more frequent as (a) the economy sucks for the middle class and (b) people believe that the political and economic system is rigged against average Americans.”
    .
    Square1:
    .
    I agree with your first statement, debating the semantics is a pointless waste of time, as was changing “terrorist attack” to “man-caused disaster”. Arguing over the which words to describe such events is truly an ineffectual undertaking.
    .
    On your point (a) I would have to disagree. There have been many economic downturns in this country over the past 100 years and very, very few of these types of incidents during those times. The 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing took place during a time of relative economic prosperity compared to now. Also, overall during the current economic upheaval overall crime has actually dropped forcing sociologists and criminologists to reconsider the model they had been working under; that economic pressure caused a rise in both violent and property crime, neither of which is currently rising.
    .
    On your point (b): I would be much more inclined to agree with you, though I highly doubt we will see a great number of incidents of this type as Americans tend to like their system of government and show their displeasure through the ballot box rather than the barrel of a gun. Note I say system OF, not just government which I agree has become quite corrupt in many ways.
    .
    “Hear, hear. Semantics is a distraction. Stack may have been a teabagger, but his complaints resonate. The case against calling him a terrorist is this: millions of people may identify with him, and it’s probably a bad idea to demonize all of them unnecessarily.”
    .
    The committee:
    .
    Millions of people across the world also identify with those who call for the destruction of capitalism, Israel, Christianity, Jews, the United States, the western world in general and a million other things.
    .
    Should we all make sure that we don’t say anything that might make them mad?
    .
    There will always be nuts out there willing to visit violence on any particular group for any number of insane reasons, we can’t appease them all or we’ll end up like Neville Chamberlain claiming ““I believe it is peace for our time . . . peace with honour”.

    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
    -George Orwell

  • formerlyjames

    freepo, do you have access to an airplane? Have you taken flying lessons in Minnesota or Florida? I am alarmed. And I don’t even work in national security.

  • formerlyjames

    So…he did hold some redeeming values in spite of his despicable act?

  • formerlyjames

    Abbreviated version: Crazy people exist. What can you do, what can you do?

  • sasquatch08

    formerlyjames:

    Against a guy in a plane? Not much, unless you carry a stinger with you on a regular basis.

  • formerlyjames

    The right wing always answers their own questions. And everybody else’s as well. Give us all a break, join Mother Angelica’s monastery and take a vow of silence. Mouthy Mother Angelica will speak for you. And we can change the channel when it gets tiresome.

  • afguy

    free,
    .
    I would agree with that too. Incitements to violence aren’t proper for ANYONE, but you’re going to win more style points with me if you stop the little insulting adjectives to describe anyone you disagree with and curtail the “but the other side does it just as much too” rationalizations.
    .
    When I hear you finally say that Limbaugh has gone over the line with some of the stuff he says daily, then we’ll start to communicate better.
    .
    One of these days, some impressionable fool is going to act on some of these hateful comments and suggestions.
    .
    And the complaint that “it COULDN’T have been anything that I said” is going to ring very hollow.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “Ruby Ridge also had a wife child and dog killed by Wild West Reno”
    .

    Janet Reno was George Herbert Walker Bush’s Att. General?
    .
    Ruby Ridge was August of 1992.
    .
    Stupid liberal history books.

  • afguy

    He didn’t wage a letter writing campaign, spob. He crashed an airplane into a building after writing a fairly disturbed and disturbing suicide letter.
    .
    Stop trying to be “cute”. It’s didn’t work. And it makes you sound like a jackass.

  • formerlyjames

    That last comment is interesting to me. I remember the ’60′s very well because I abstained from the drugs. Those who did partake and those who didn’t as well did wrestle our country out of the ’50′s funk in which you seem to be wedged. Now, we are faced with another cultural revolution by the right wing who resent the progress of the ’60s. The tea bag movement is the antithesis of progress. Let’s drag our country back to an era where (white) men were men, where we ruled the skies, the seas, and outer space, because it made us feel worthwhile even if we had nothing to do with it and it was just tribal warfare. Let us pray, Jesus is the final word and the Pope or our preacher will tell us what it is all about. The right wing is all about living in an imaginary past. And most of these people are drug free. They may as well be strung out on something, as we would be no better or worse for it.

  • the committee

    I’m not talking about appeasing nuts. I’m talking about demonizing one particular nut posthumously. I, for one, am not about to start calling people who hate bankers “terrorist sympathizers.” If you think Orwell demands that you do so, though, by all means, have at it.

  • maverick2k9

    freeper, So by implication, do you accept that Mr Stack is a tea bagger?

  • ohiolib

    Don’t give freeper or 2/3s any more ideas. They’re pretty unbalanced as it is.

  • sasquatch08

    the committee:

    I never mentioned “people who hate bankers” nor did I ever mention “terrorist sympathizers” so I don’t know what you are referring to.
    .
    Also you did not refer to demonizing “one particular nut posthumously” but rather “…to demonize all of them…”. Get your facts right especially when it comes to what you just said which anyone can read and copy and paste if they so choose.
    .
    Further, I will have at it, but I don’t think Orwell “demands” anything, merely that his quote is poignant, because it is one of the very definitions of freedom. If you disagree then you clearly don’t understand the idea of “freedom of speech”. Telling people to sit down and shut up because you don’t agree with them is undemocratic and un-American.
    .
    That is not to say that this nutjob’s flying of a plane has anything to do with freedom of speech. Nor am I saying you are un-American; however your last statement on my use of a quote does seem to carry an undercurrent of elitism and impertinence which other people may find amusing and heady but which I (and probably many others find) insulting and naive and childlike.

  • spob

    whatever, afguy–the point is that calling him a terrorist doesn’t advance the ball a whole lot. I am agnostic on the point.
    .
    Query: were the Black Panthers trying to intimidate white voters in Philly terrorists?

  • spob

    So let me ask everyone-what about those “No Justice, No Peace” bumper stickers? A call to arms?

  • allthingsinaname

    Why even discuss this? There has been, there always will be individuals like him. This is nothing new. Call it what ever you want.

  • spob

    I tend to agree. I do think, however, that the Tiller murder was terrorism. I don’t have a huge problem with calling this incident an act of terror–but I don’t think it advances the ball a whole lot.

  • freeinpa

    Paul:

    I stand corrected on Ruby Ridge. Wild West Reno was not the AG at the time of the occurrence but she was the AG who refused to support the Justice Dept findings that the FBI was in error at the scene.

    You are also correct on those dam liberal history books. Rest assured if the US can be blamed for anything liberals will do it.

  • freeinpa

    ohiolib:

    Is that your professional opinion or are you basing it n your experience living in the mental disordered world of liberalism.

  • freeinpa

    Notice the silence from the left.

  • allthingsinaname

    Suicide is ultimately a selfish act, weather it is murder suicide, or not. The goal is to focus the attention on the individual committing the act. It does not have the purpose of changing direction or, the goals of society, only to focus societies attention the person committing the act.
    .
    As you can see, it worked.

  • afguy

    Look, Look!
    .
    Bright shiny object/change of subject over there!!

  • afguy

    …the point is that calling him a terrorist doesn’t advance the ball a whole lot.
    .
    Because he was WHITE, an American citizen, and already dead? Seems to me this goes to the point of whether or not we are starting to have a problem with “domestic terrorism”. And if the present climate of heated rhetoric is starting to have an effect on people’s actions.
    .
    If he had been of Middle Eastern descent and captured alive, would it STILL be unimportant whether or not we called him a “terrorist”, “criminal” or “enemy combatant”?
    .
    Apparently, words have no real meaning or power when it becomes inconvenient to acknowledge that they may.

  • allthingsinaname

    “Notice the silence from the left.”
    .
    What is that suppose to mean? No one wants to comment about bumper sticker? So what? Is that where you get your ideas? Is that your news source? Is that your religion? What exactly is that sticker to you?
    .
    We hand out stickers to the grand kids every time they go to the potty, and they get to stick them on a calendar so they can see the progress they made.

  • afguy

    Arguing over the which words to describe such events is truly an ineffectual undertaking.
    .
    Ulness, of course, the perpetrator is of foreign descent, in which case the terms “criminal”, “terrorist”, or “enemy combatant” become of SUPREME importance – at least to the person in custody, and not just some “ineffectual undertaking”.
    .
    Let’s get real here…

  • sasquatch08

    Wait, people actually have “No Justice, No Peace” bumper stickers? That’s ridiculous.

  • freeinpa

    “What is that suppose to mean? No one wants to comment about bumper sticker? So what?”
    ==

    It just shows the rank hypocrisy of the left. Conservatives “bad” Liberals “good” is the given state. Every word, sentence and sign from Limbaugh, or Beck or conservative supporter is conjugated and analyzed ad naseum for hint some perceived wrong tone directed toward some “victim” group of liberals. The MSM is full of thier wonderful insights about how the anxiety is building and fear that they might horrors elect folks who are not liberals.

    ==
    If anything simialr and many times worse comes out from liberals they band together like mindless lemmings and defend the insanity or say its nothing

    ==

    Although I do like your plan to give your grand kids liberal stickers for every time they go to the potty. Finally a real use for them.

  • freeinpa
  • ohiolib

    You gotta love the double standards and false equivocation of the right. A bunch of muslim crazies fly planes into the world trade centers, and they practically crap their pants in fear. But when a white american does it, they make jokes about it.

  • sasquatch08

    freeinpa:

    Please don’t make outlandish statements like democrats are aiding terrorists, it only gives fuel the the left wing nuts and degrades your own arguments. You’ve made some pretty good ones on other threads, but statements like this damage your credibility with everyone on here including me.

  • beng55

    Confused whether it’s a terror act?

    Let me offer this insight. What is usually understood in this period as a terror act is praised by certain communities, i.e. islamic, turned into popular celebrations (candies distributed at market places) and glorified in other ways, while the perpetrators (posthumously) are elevated to the degree of saints.
    All this makes it cultural phenomena and promotes mobilizing new recrutes for the jihad (‘holy struggle’).

    Nothing of these holds for this deranged guy who flew his plane into the IRS offices (presumably imitating the 9/11). Therefore, while he is sure a murderer, he can hardly be held as a terrorist in the sense that few other IRS workers will be terrorized into discontinuing their work.

    And that’s why his act is an isolated one, while that of the underpants bomber is not.

  • http://patricksartor.wordpress.com patricksartor

    I see! If it’s somebody with a different religion who looks different from us then it’s “terrorism”. If it’s a white Christian Republican blowing us up, then that isn’t a problem, right? If somebody demanding free health care, or “socialistic” things like good public schools, even if he was fifth, tenths or even twentieth generation American setting off a firecracker, Republicans would demand an undercover FBI agent at every meeting of progressives, but, when it is an anti-tax Republican lunatic, then the Republicans would say that the Democrats taxing Stack so much that he only had one private airplane (ooh, poor baby) that made him do it. Did you ever think that Jihads are like Evangelical Christian Republicans on crack? By contrast when liberals get mad, we might go out and write a book or a blog nobody is going to read.Of course this man was a terrorist!

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