We Want Reform, So Long As It’s Free or Really, Really Cheap

I could have written any number of headlines about a health care poll released this week by Zogby International and the University of Texas Health Science Center. Like most of the polls done in the past year related to health care, there are an infinite number of story lines that could be pulled out to prove an infinite number of points.

For instance, based on this poll, I could say that a majority of Americans strongly support major new federal insurance regulations and very few Americans want lawmakers to give up on health care reform. But I could also say that a majority wants Republicans involved and half of Americans oppose the House and Senate reform bills drafted and passed by Democrats. When it comes to polling, it’s all in the phrasing of the questions and I’m skeptical of polls that make broad claims about whether Americans like or dislike the generic concept of reform. For example, here’s an accurate headline about this poll. And here’s an accurate headline about a poll from last week.

The problem is that polls often ask simplistic questions and the U.S. health care system and policies that affect it are complicated. This is why there’s a split between the percentage of people who support “reform” and the percentage of people who support the specific reforms in the Democratic bills. People support the provisions in the House and Senate bills when asked about them individually, but when ask whether they support the bills themselves and they tend to answer no. People also like the bills more once individual components are explained to them. Here’s the latest Kaiser tracking poll that proves this.

But despite the inherent flaws in asking people simple questions about complex topics, I like this question in the latest Zogby-University of Texas poll:

How much would you be willing to pay in extra taxes every year so that everyone could have health insurance?

$0 – 42.5%
$1-99 – 18.9%
$100-499 – 14.4%
$500-999 – 6.5 %
$1,000 – 2,000 – 3.4%
More than $2,000 – 2.5%
Not sure – 11.8%

I think this says more about how the American public views Democratic health care reform than questions like this one from the same poll:

Some people do not like the provisions in either healthcare bill, and believe that Congress should start over. Do you agree or disagree with this opinion?

Strongly agree – 43.4%
Somewhat agree – 13.5%
Somewhat disagree – 14%
Strongly disagree – 25%
Not sure – 4%

I called up S. Ward Casscells, who commissioned the poll for the University of Texas, shortly after the results were made public. Casscells is a medical doctor, professor and former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs. He disputes the notion that Americans don’t really understand how Democratic health reform would work. “We think the public more or less understands the bills,” he said. The public agrees on that point – more than 80% of those surveyed in the Zogby-UT poll said they were “very” or “somewhat” “familiar” with the key components of health care reform in the House and Senate bills.

But if the public is familiar with the bills, most people don’t understand how components of the Democratic health reform plan fit together. They’re not alone. Even Peggy Noonan doesn’t (or didn’t) really get it.

For example, in the new poll, about 68% support insurance reforms like an end to pre-existing conditions exclusions but only 19% support an individual mandate. As Paul Krugman (linked above) and others have explained, the entire system breaks down if insurance underwriting is eliminated and universal coverage is not enacted. And by break down, I mean cost prohibitive premiums followed by an insurance death spiral.

I asked Casscell how confident he really was that those in his poll understand things like this. He laughed and said, “We can’t quiz them. That would push the response rate right down.” This is true and this is why polls about health care reform tell us more about the efficacy of Republicans and Democratic messaging than they do about whether Americans support or oppose what’s actually being proposed.

Related Topics: polls, zogby, Congress, Democratic Party, Health Care, Republican Party, Uncategorized
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  • destor23

    Maybe Americans want the kind of health care reform promised during the 2008 campaign. It goes something like this: If you like what you have, keep it. But chances are you’ll like what we come up with better because anyone making under $250K a year will see premiums drop and you’ll get better services as a result.

    That was the initial promise of health care reform. It wasn’t just that the uninsured would get covered. It wasn’t just that refusals and denials would be curbed. It wasn’t that your premiums would keep climbing, just at a slower rate.

    The election year discussions of health care reform understood the problem for what it really is: “Most Americans pay too much and get too little in return and some Americans even get nothing.”

    That’s what health reform is supposed to address. It’s supposed to right the wrong of years of rip offs and get a better deal for all Americans.

    It’s not that the public is confused or conflicted or anything of the sort. It’s that what emerged after months of debate no longer addresses the primary problems of reform.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “This is true and this is why polls about health care reform tell us more about the efficacy of Republicans and Democratic messaging than they do about whether Americans support or oppose what’s actually being proposed.”
    .
    Smart conclusion. I wonder how many issues for which that can be said.

    Of course the buck stops with the policy makers but the media has a responsibility for a well informed populace.
    .

  • queencersei

    We’ve come a long way from rationing and asking what we can do for our country. We want world class health care and public services, a strong military, ect. But for too long we have been told that we can have the moon and get a tax cut too. Forget the politicians; listen to your grandparents instead. You can’t get something for nothing. Their generation made sacrifices and perhaps now it is time for the younger generations to learn how to do that too.

  • destor23

    Katie, I also have to ask why you like this question:

    “How much would you be willing to pay in extra taxes every year so that everyone could have health insurance?”

    It seems to me that it misses the point. For example, I’m quite happy to pay more in taxes for universal health care the increased tax burden is offset by my not having to pay insurance premiums. That, of course, would be the promise of a real public option — that the government could deliver to everyone better service than the private insurers can, for less in taxes than everyone currently pays in premiums.

    So a simple question like “how much more would you pay?” is really too simple. If I pay $1 more in taxes but save $1.50 elsewhere because of it I’m not paying more, I’m playing less.

    The very premise of the question expects too little out of our policymakers.

  • shepherdwong

    That’s correct. Thirty years of “conservative” propaganda have convinced millions of us that : 1) most problems are the result of liberal government policy (rather than corporate-written policy), 2) most problems can be fixed on the backs of the twin magic ponies of the “free-market” (deregulation) and tax cuts and 3) any liberal government solution will take from those who are deserving (and usually white) and give to those who are undeserving (and usually black or brown). At the moment, we have exactly the government they deserve.

  • afguy

    According to the polls, the public’s position on any given topic is whatever the polling questions were designed/slanted to elicit.
    .
    For example, if I want you to be AGAINST HCR, then that’s ALL I will ask. Or, I’ll ask you if you’re for or against a “commie” takover of the healthcare system.
    .
    I won’t ask pesky questions about whether you dislike it because the proposed legislation doesn’t go far enough or because it goes too far, then include the two responses. No, let’s just stop with the “They’re ag’in it” result and run with that.
    .
    I’ve had pollsters call and ask questions like the above. When I try to tell them that my opinion doesn’t fit their choices, they try to pin me into just those choices. If I’m lucky, they have a “none of the above” which is TOTALLY unenlightening, but at least I have THAT choice.
    .
    No wonder polls vary so much around election time… how many of them are designed to REALLY find out what we think?

  • Ivy_B

    Casscells is a medical doctor, professor and former Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs.

    Which administration, please?

  • destor23

    Americans have sacrificed plenty already queencersei. Just as Odysseus spent 10 years with you, the average American worker has had 10 years of stagnant wages. Young people entering the work force are struggling to find jobs and are accepting them at lower wages than they otherwise would. That is sacrifice.

    Nobody’s asking for something for nothing. But we can get more for less in terms of health care because the ad hoc system that emerged after World War II is wildly inefficient.

    And most Americans can probably get a tax cut too if they’d accept a smaller military. It’s about priorities. As for sacrifices, there have been too many already.

  • stuartzechman

    Kate Pickert:

    We Want Reform, So Long As It’s Free or Really, Really Cheap

    You make it sound as if this is somehow unreasonable.
    .
    The fact of the matter is that health care reform could mean an American system that’s comparatively cheap for ordinary folks, like it is for people in France or Germany or Japan or Italy, etc., etc.
    .
    That’s why it’s a little puzzling that you “like” the question asking Americans how much more than they already pay for Medicare and Medicaid (and their own insurance contributions) that they’re willing to fork over in taxes for the same expensive system, only bigger.
    .
    You mention something that’s very important, that:

    When it comes to polling, it’s all in the phrasing of the questions

    , but then why do you prefer the question framing that posits for people that our nation’s expensive way is the only way, and it’s either pay up or shut up, Kate Pickert?
    .
    I get your point though, that Americans tend to be disturbingly uninformed about things, and that this hurts the credibility of pollsters who focus on how people feel at the expense of measuring what people know, so that the results are comprehensible (instead of politically exploitable).
    .
    Your own polling claims fall into that category, Kate Pickert, not that I’m particularly criticizing you for it.
    .
    For example, you write:

    I could also say that a majority wants Republicans involved…

    , and I could point out the recent Pew poll that found that two-thirds of the American people had no idea whatsoever that zero Republicans voted for health care reform (link to recent Pew Research polling):

    Knowledge and the Senate Health Care Bill
    .
    Asked how many GOP senators voted for the chamber’s health care bill on Dec. 24, only 32% know that the measure received no support from Republican members. About as many answer incorrectly, saying that five (13%), 10 (8%) or 20 (8%) GOP senators voted for the bill. About four-in-ten (39%) do not know or decline to answer.

    , and we’d be back to your questions about what this all means.
    .
    Don’t you ever wonder if Americans actually knew what their health care costs compared to other countries, what the numbers would be for health care reform then, Kate Pickert? Would Americans stop wanting cheap reform then, do you think?
    .
    When helpful Dr. Casscells defended his polling work by disputing “the notion that Americans don’t really understand how Democratic health reform would work,” did he by any chance mention whether or not many ordinary people understand how our system works (or doesn’t work)? Does he really regard “somewhat familiar” to be the same category of knowledge as “very familiar?” And how could Americans be reasonably familiar with the contents of health care legislation if they might not even be familiar with what the problems of our health care system are? If respondents had heard all about those nasty death panels from the various parties who repeated that phrase ad nauseum, mightn’t they consider themselves “very familiar” with the contents of the Senate bill?
    .
    It seems as if our Dr. Casscells might be a little obtuse, doesn’t it?
    .
    Or maybe not…Is there any polling data that could tell us if our educated guesses about Americans’ level of basic information about how things work (not so high) are in the ballpark?
    .
    Do a majority of Americans even know the basics about their economy, their government or their health care system, Kate Pickert?

  • square1

    For God’s sake, “universal coverage” is only one side of reform. The other side — the side that is driving the reform and the side that causes people to refer to the system as being in “crisis — is the escalating cost of health care and health insurance.

    Try polling this question: “Do you support legislation that would lower your premiums, your co-pays, and/or the premiums paid on your behalf by your employer?”

    I’m willing to bet that approximately 99% of respondents would respond “yes” to that question.

    Or this: “Would you support a system where you paid taxes in an amount less than you and/or your employer currently pay in premiums and received guaranteed, irrevocable health care?”

    Again, willing to bet that the response would be pretty favorable.

    The ONLY question is whether a system that, in theory, would be overwhelmingly popular can be implemented. And you can’t poll for feasibility.

  • destor23

    Wikipedia says he was sworn into that job in 2007. Looks like a Bushie, talks like a Bushie…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Ward_Casscells

  • stuartzechman

    This is incredibly well-said.

  • afguy

    queencersei,
    .
    You’re so right. Unfortunately, may of them are gone now. When my mom was still alive, she would sometimes ask me a political question and I could tell (1) where she had heard what she was asking about and (2) that she was thinking that what she heard really didn’t ring true.
    .
    She grew up in the Depression and the reliance on others for mutual support was just a given. Even up to the day she died, she maintained contacts with friends from long back.
    .
    We glorify the magnificent individualist but the wars we fought and won weren’t done so by a bunch of “entrepreneurs” who just showed up on the battlefield and suddenly worked as a unit. There was just a better sense of needing to function and sacrifice as a team (and what exactly that meant).
    .
    Nowadays, a “team” is a group of people that I can be in charge of to pad my resume. Everyone wants to be the chief, because NO ONE knows (or cares) who the h*ll any of the Indians are.

  • stuartzechman

    We want world class health care…
    .
    Why must we sacrifice anything to have the health care that the French or the Germans or the Japanese have?
    .
    World class health care, first world, wealthy nation health care costs half of what we pay in this country for the same (sometimes worse) results.
    .
    It’s not that the American people need to buck up and pay the piper, it’s that we’re getting ripped off, and it needs to stop.

  • destor23

    Thank you, Stuartzechman! It’s so easy to accuse people of being such a mindless mob, especially when you just appeal to poll data. I think it’s anti-democratic (little d) to do this. We’re dismissive of the population because hey, they don’t know any better. Somebody convene a blue ribbon panel to tell them what to do!

    I say maybe it’s not that the American public wants to both have an eat its cake. It’s that the American public expects more of its leaders. I don’t like people telling me to “pay more to get more” when the system has failed us for so long. If McDonald’s raised its prices tomorrow and told me that it did so because it didn’t want to serve crappy hamburgers any more, I wouldn’t rush out to try one.

  • lepidusxvi

    I think that’s the essential problem. Half the country doesn’t want the government involved. If that’s the case, things will continue as they have. If the government gets involved, taxes do HAVE to go up to pay for health care. Luckily, your insurance payments disappear. See case: Canada. However, no government in the current political climate can raise taxes, ever. If they did, it wouldn’t matter if by raising taxes by $1 saved every American $2 in insurance cost. They’d be voted out in a landslide and replaced by someone who cut taxes and raised “free” benefits. The more I see, the more I think Obama and the Democrats should have just said “screw it” at the start of the term and rammed a whole bunch of things through congress… accepting in advance that they’d all get voted out of office for doing it. It might have helped.

  • freeinpa

    “”Most Americans pay too much and get too little in return and some Americans even get nothing.”

    ==
    That was the stated goal but the bills that were crafted by the Democrats was Big Government on steroids. It became a grab bag of every special interest group wants and every politicians wishes with the end result of controlling every Americans HC choice and adding cost to taxpayers and the deficit.

    SZ it may be possible to meet the wishes of the respondents of the poll but not as long as politicians and special interest groups are involved (These special interest groups are not limited to HC companies).

    ==
    While few, if any here will admit or acknowledge, the approach Repubs early on wished to take was to fix HC one piece at a time. Demos refused to do that saying it was too complex but instead chose to deliver 1200 pgs that the majority of Congress could not read or understand.

    ==
    If Obama truly wants Repubs to participate he may want to re-visit the single piece method and slowly build a reasonable HC plan that does meet its original intent. Doubtful that happens since Obama would then need to admit that Repubs have something to offer and special interest groups will howl.

  • 70northsullivan

    Posted this a few days ago, apropos polling-

    When polls do bother to break down opposition to HCR, the results are interesting (this from Dec.):

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/in-polls-much-opposition-to-health-care.html

    …suggesting there may be more folks that either support the current legislation under consideration or think it doesn’t go far enough than think it goes too far!

    Also this, reported in TPM Dec. 16 (not succesful in linking directly to poll:

    “The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll coming out later today will show opposition to the health care bill growing — mainly from disappointed liberals, who are very much disappointed to see the public option getting thrown out.”

    Anyone see any more like this?

  • Kate Pickert

    He held the position from mid-2007 to mid-2009, so George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations. Here’s his bio http://med.uth.tmc.edu/departments/cardiology/faculty/faculty-casscells-s-ward.html

  • destor23

    @Kate Pickert:

    I think you need to vet your source a little better.

    He was nominated to that job by Bush.
    http://rncnyc2004.blogspot.com/2007/02/s-ward-casscells-to-replace-william.html

    He donated to Bush’s presidential campaign and mostly to Republican campaigns:

    http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.php?name=Casscells&state=TX&zip=&employ=&cand=&all=Y&sort=N&capcode=rb2nb&submit=Submit

    He left the post 3 months after Obama took over.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Ward_Casscells

    Guy’s a total partisan.

  • stuartzechman

    Kate Pickert:
    .
    Thank you very much for responding to commentary with a link to a source that supports your claims, it’s extremely appreciated.

  • Ivy_B

    Thank you destor and Kate.

  • artraveler

    Why not ask the real questions that should have been on the poll-

    Are you happy with the profit levels and management bonuses of the health insurance industry so they can continue to raise your rates and cut or eliminate your services?

    Would you prefer a system similar to Medicare, at reasonable rates, that covered everyone in the country or are you happy with double digit health insurance rates increases that will continue until your company, or you, can not afford to give insurance at all or even stay in the US?

    The big question I have is where were the U S corporations who are dying under current health insurance practices during all this discussion?

  • shepherdwong

    Don’t you ever wonder if Americans actually knew what their health care costs compared to other countries, what the numbers would be for health care reform then, Kate Pickert?

    .
    Listening to elites in business, politics and the media, constantly talking about the problem of cost but never telling us that health care just doesn’t have to be so expensive (and that the rest of the industrialized world has proved it), you get the idea that they really don’t want us to know.

  • stuartzechman

    It’s not primarily the insurers (although their cut is also too big), it’s what the insurers pay for.
    .
    Medicare and Medicaid can’t continue to shell out astronomical prices for health care, either.

  • stuartzechman

    shepherdwong:


    you get the idea that they really don’t want us to know.

    I’m getting the idea that they don’t feel safe talking about it, but I can’t quite tell if it’s a sphere of legitimate debate thing or what.
    .
    They’re treating first world health care prices vs US as if it was something they could be criticized profoundly for reporting, like that a top general knowingly made false statements, or that the US wasn’t winning a war.
    .
    What makes them feel like they’re going to be called traitors and labeled anti-American if they talk about health care prices?
    .
    I don’t even know if that’s it, I’m just going on the private conversations I’ve had with national reporters, and what they were able to speak openly about to me.
    .
    There is something that makes them feel unsafe writing about this specific problem.

  • cfukara

    ” .. Like most of the polls .. there are a.. number of story lines that could be pulled out to prove a.. number of points. … polls about health care reform tell us more about the efficacy of Republicans and Democratic messaging than .. “
    Indeed, my Child.
    For it is said that insight is the beginning of true wisdom – or something inchoately[ :-) ] similar.

  • http://kiery19.wordpress.com kiery19

    I agree that the questions on the poll need to be changed. If they were more personal and detailed, there would be a better perspective of what we want and are willing to change. I also think that people do not know enough on the topic but know they want health care for all. If propaganda was more liberal it would help people to understand better rather then having us believe that things like this can be done along with tax cuts and little to no opportunity cost.

  • messenia

    Amen.

  • messenia

    How much would you be willing to pay in extra taxes every year so that everyone could have health insurance?
    .
    This question is based on a fallacy yet I’ve never seen any journalist point that out,. There is no reason whatsoever that a true universal health care system should require ny amore public money than we are spending today.
    .
    Government in the US is already responsible for a much higher percentage of total health care spending than in Germany, France, the Netherlands and many other universal health systems. The single-minded focus ,by both the left and right, on single-payer systems such as those of the UK and Canada, have resulted in an appalling amount of ignorance among talking heads, and the populace at large about alternative ways to finance universal care.

  • stuartzechman

    This is somewhat true.
    .
    Single-payer isn’t the sole means of making health care affordable and available to all citizens.
    .
    Japan, for example, doesn’t have single-payer (there are a handful of huge, highly-regulated private insurers), and yet manages to provide first-world health care to its aging population for less than either the UK or Canada.
    .
    To varying degrees, establishing affordable, sustainable health care systems is a matter of regulating private insurers as if they were utilities, promoting national-scale efficiencies, and centrally setting prices for health care markets.

  • tanboontee

    Only dreamy people will never get tired of thinking about free lunch.

  • allthingsinaname

    Yea a generic poll, it doesn’t get to the meat what we like or dislike about the reform, not to mention which reform Bill.
    .
    $ 0 Unbelievable! A year? Good God they don’t deserve it!
    .
    Ask them how much they are willing to pay for their defense, I’d like to seer that.
    .
    American’s suck!

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