The Know-Nothing Party Redux

“They asked me to speak,” said Farah [who had spent ten minutes speaking on Obama's citizenship]. “They didn’t ask me, ‘What do you want to speak about?’ No, this operates like a free and open society, not like the kind of Marxist society you would apparently like to be a journalist for.”

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So, when the movement’s default reaction to any sort of criticism is “F–k you, Marxist,” then can we stop considering it a movement for serious people?

I suppose it is also your opinion that left wing liberals are totally void of this segment of our population? The gist of this movement is quite sound and trust me, they will be heard from time and time again. Perhaps Illinois is next? Now wouldn’t that ruffle a few liberal feathers.

What, Joe, and Barack Obama is so smart? Wasn’t he the guy that told us that we need to have infrastructure like China’s? Wasn’t he the guy that came very late to the obvious conclusion that a mandate was necessary for his style of HCR? Wasn’t he the guy that, contrary to Powell v. McCormick, stated that the Senate had the right to refuse to seat Burris? Wasn’t he the guy that characterized our war effort in Afghanistan as “just” dropping bombs on villages? Wasn’t he the guy that dropped a deuce on the HCR bill by stating that it didn’t meet two core promises? Wasn’t he the guy who couldn’t figure out whether Iran was a big threat or a minor one? Wasn’t he the guy who thought that US troops liberated Auschwitz? Wasn’t he the guy who swallowed whole Andrew Sullivan’s “we do not torture” tall tale? Isn’t he the guy who doesn’t even know how to pronounce “corpsman”?
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But you’re going to disparage citizens for their views? Ok, Joe, gotcha.

Spob–

We absolutely need an infrastructure like the one China has been developing, especially when it comes to high-speed internet, grid and transportation. Check it out.

A mandate is necessary if you want insurance companies to cover everyone, even those with pre-existing conditions. Without a mandate, those who are healthy will simply wait until they’re sick to join up.

I am distressed, though, that the President didn’t know how to pronounce corpsman…although that has more to do with an unfamiliarity with the military, too prevalent throughout our society, than it does with intelligence.

How’s it going to happen in Illinois? The winner of the GOP gubernatorial primary was Mark Kirk, who’s as moderate as they come.

These are people who think Obama’s a Marxist for building an economic team made up solely of Wall Street types and spending billions to bail out the major banks. They have no idea what that word even means.

Yeah, I’d like an infrastructure that has an electrical grid that doesn’t fail, sending the entire Northeast into a blackout like it did in 2003; that has water mains that don’t explode as they did in Manhattan; that has bridges that don’t collapse like the one in Minneapolis, and so on.
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If that’s somehow socialism, then sign me up. I’ll stand alongside wide-eyed commies like Dwight Eisenhower who led our last major round of infrastructure improvement.

The Tea Party movement, as we know, is mostly comprised of patriotic Americans who are concerned about the drift of the country away from prosperity and, they believe, freedom. It is also has more nuts than a forest of almond trees.”
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You posted this an hour ago and I am still laughing. Good one Joe.

Yeah, there’s a million reasons reasons not to take their opinions seriously (as opposed to their fervor). I was just tying it into the linked article.

comprised of patriotic Americans who are concerned about the drift of the country away from prosperity and, they believe, freedom
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Is anyone going to ask them how they feel about regulating the banks that exploded us into this mess?
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Or perhaps ask them how they feel about the torture of innocent people, indefinite detention, and warrant-less wiretapping?
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Or maybe they should be asked to reconcile their views on the War on Drugs with their concerns over freedom?

The “journalist” Farah is referring to is Dave Weigel, click his name to read my coverage of him. For instance, he wrote about me and then refused to approve a comment I left pointing out how he’s wrong. He’s also repeatedly lied and misled about the basic, objective, easy-to-understand facts of the cert matter.
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If someone’s going to say that BHO was definitely born in HI and anyone who has questions is nuts, they should be able to get their facts straight, right? Weigel has a severe problem with facts and with logic; see the posts at the link above.

My point wasn’t about the journalist in question, or the validity of Farah’s speech.
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It was about how his immediate reaction was to call Weigel a Marxist, simply because Weigel asked a question about the structure of the convention.

When does former Governor Palin whip up the crowd?

Poor, poor, JNS.

This was my big takeaway from the ’08 Olympics in China: they’re catching up and fast. They don’t think small and they don’t think about next week. They think about the next several decades. While they’re building high speed rail, public transportation that services millions of people per day and dams that dwarf anything we have, our congress spins its wheels and our president politely and ineffectively nudges them along. Cheap partisan politics are paralyzing our government while the rest of the world passes us by.

A good part of the reason why is that a significant segment of conservatives get together for a convention and spend their time talking about urban legends like the President’s true country of origin. The only thing that motivates that particular conspiracy theory is bitterness over loosing an election. I’d be more impressed if the tea baggers got together to come up with a few workable ideas based in reality. If they want to have a meaningful impact on the political process they’d do better if they stopped trading in wacko conspiracy theories and started coming up with a workable forward looking platform that the average American could get behind.

I went to high school with Joe Farah. Back then, he was a radical leftist who wore a Che Guevara patch on his denim jacket. I think his extreme transformation is indicative of the fact that one’s politics is often as much about personal psychology as it is about ideology.

What, Joe, and Barack Obama is so smart?
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Smarter than the House Republicans in Baltimore, at least.

You left wingers are so full of it…..sanctimonious and self centered. Your concept of reality is what the liberal press feeds you and you swallow all of their garbage hook, line and sinker. Learn to think for yourselves ONCE in your phony lives. Liberals truly have become the bane of our existence.

Joe, see comments 3 and 5.1. They are tea party territory. Please stop the meme that the gatherings are made up of just folks with good intentions. Find out where the money comes from. Remember the anti-Kerry swift boat ads. It took the press a while to follow the money. They had those that participated in the ads on TV dozens of times before anyone tried to debunk the claims. Too late.
This is what the traditional press is doing with the tea partiers. Please follow the money. I don’t care so much about the people involved in the so called movement as I do about who is funding and leading it.
Funny, that O’Keefe’s mentor and boss is concerned about birthers. He who stirred up all the crap about Acorn.
Any group who would let Farah and Tancredo any where near them deserves the title NUTS. Really break down who is invited to speak, the cheering response their speeches get and what are the key words you hear from the attendees.

Yes yes, that’s all well and good, but how DO you feel about bank regulations?

If John Kerry had nothing to hide he could have debunked the claim instantaneously by releasing his service records….He NEVER did so! Gee, I wonder why he chose NOT to do it? Maintain your arrogant attitude about the tea party apr2563, you help us gain and keep traction. If you think we are through with you yet, you are in for a big surprise and btw, anyone who would defend ACORN is worse than naive, you are simply ignorant. (no surprise)

We saw two polls recently: one showed how a significant portion of Americans are horribly misinformed; the other, that FOX is “the most trusted name” in news broadcasting. Not a coincidence.

Fox News: Ignorance Is Bliss™

Joe, funny how you cherry-pick. First of all, I get that if you are going to require insurers to cover everyone, you need a mandate (or a harsh stick, like you get sick w/o insurance, you don’t have to be treated–which is not going to happen)–my point was that Barack Obama took forever to figure this out–that doesn’t show him to be all that smart. As for China, well, our infrastructure is still far better than theirs–there are places in China which aren’t yet electrified, and last I checked, relatively minor earthquakes don’t make thousands of buildings collapse here in America. They don’t have our interstate system either. And Barack wasn’t talking about internet connections. Joe, you clown yourself when you go into the tank for him like that.
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As for corpsman, well, I think the issue is a lack of education (and a lack of familiarity with the military). Yeah, Obama has the sheepskin, but he doesn’t seem to have the knowledge that an educated man would have. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of history wouldn’t botch his description of the Nuremberg trials, the “we do not torture” and would not say that an American soldier liberated Auschwitz.

really Cliff? I don’t think too many GOP pols would drop a deuce on their signature legislative goal like Obama did.
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And by saying that HCR did not adhere to two core promises, Obama dropped a big stinky deuce on it. That takes some real brains there.

Banks etc. need regulation, no doubt. But you know, regulation ain’t easy. See what Congress did with credit cards?
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Let’s start with an investigation into whether Fannie and Freddie complied with applicable regs.

“there are places in China which aren’t yet electrified”
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True. They never had things like the Tennessee Valley Authority or the Rural Electrification Administration, which succeeded in spreading the electrical grid into all parts of our country.
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But those were infrastructure projects taken on by the New Deal, so they must have been unnecessary, or failures, or socialism, or … something, right?

Kevin; Don’t you mean “Ignorance is Strength”?

Pint made an excellent pt. yesterday:

“progressives haven’t realized that these are the very people they claim to champion”

We can argue about what % of these people are crazy or racist or simply misinformed. But that doesn’t change the above fact. We can mock them, the default position of what liberal media we do have, and even much of the progressive blogosphere. But as a party, if we hope to combat the populist storm on the horizon, we better find ways to speak to them without contempt, craft some manner of narrative that resonates w/ their very real anxiety over the cratering of their security. Of course, most of these folks are mistaken about who’s threatening their present/future prosperity, but our task, however tempting, cannot be to mock them (even when they’re attacking us).

I know this is difficult b/c it’s long been my default position as well. SZ has been preaching this line for some time. In my profession, I might only reach a student or two per class, inspiring them to, gasp, read, critically engage with literature, but that is something.

Of course, the challenge going FWD, since the econ is not going to magically bounce back anytime soon and the jobs that are eventually created aren’t going to be like the ones these people once vyed for, the challenge is reshaping the dem party so that it can talk to these people without looking like hypocrites. At the moment, they’re in deep cahoots with the corp. interests preying upon hardworking Americans. Passing HCR, which will mandate that they buy a sh!tty product from the industry that’s been f’ing them over for decades doesn’t help matters. Bailing out the Wall St. gamblers, nope, nor do the tepid regulations being considered to curtail their cowboy capitalism.

So, it is a major challenge. How do you combat the propaganda they imbibe daily, how do you provide a foil for their own party when our party is also deeply enmeshed in the corrupt process. I still say 3rd party, but any true challenge to the rot in Denmark will only come when this divide can be breached.

I always go back to this scene by God John Sayles in Matewan. We have to speak to them like this, we simply have to realize that our interests are the same, however divided by the f’ing puppeteers ruining society. I know it doesn’t look as appealing as putting on your partisan skin or shirt and waging blood warfare, but…

I don’t think too many GOP pols would drop a deuce on their signature legislative goal like Obama did.
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Of course not. GOP presidents have Democrats as the opposition party, and they’re willing to work with them. Tip O’Neill worked with Reagan, Ted Kennedy worked with Bush on NCLB, etc. etc.

Kevin, your comments have been brilliant. Let’s hear it for the New Deal, New Frontier, Great Society. Those programs did more for this country than any Bush tax cut. They grew and supported the now waning middle class.

Bottom line, apr2563, the Swifties forced a presidential candidate to correct the record on two issues: the Christmas in Cambodia tall tale (Apocalypse Now, anyone) and the extent of one of his “wounds”. And don’t forget, the Swifties also raised questions about Kerry being present when the assassination of senators was discussed, something which the Kerry campaign didn’t address (once FBI surveillance records came out that tended to corroborate the story).
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And while I am at it, can we please drop all the sanctimony about John “Audie Murphy” Kerry? The bottom line is that the guy got three very minor “wounds” and got outta Dodge. No way an enlisted guy would have been able to do that. I am an ex-Navy officer–maybe I would have done the same thing as Kerry, but I sure hope I wouldn’t. And I sure wouldn’t want to have to explain it to my kids.

spob you just proved my point.

Nothing wrong with public works per se–please point to any post in here where I’ve said different. I have specifically advocated the replacement of the Tappan Zee bridge, and I think that they ought to fully fund the 2d Avenue subway in NYC.
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My point, of course, about China is that Obama was a f’in moron for swallowing ChiCom propaganda with respect to the Olympics. During Communist rule in the USSR, Moscow had a very nice subway system too.

So, Kev, then you agree with me that Obama stupidly dropped a deuce on HCR by saying that it violated two core promises? What do you have to say about that, Joe?

I have no idea what you’re talking about, spob. What core promises?
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I think Obama fumbled on HCR because he left it to Congress and they acted like the Republicans were going to negotiate in good faith. The final result is different from his campaign promises, sure. That’s the result of compromise and the legislative process.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about, spob. Are you talking about this part, where he trashes the Republican stimulus plan?
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Now, I say all this not to re-litigate the past, but it’s simply to state that the component parts of the Recovery Act are consistent with what many of you say are important things to do — rebuilding our infrastructure, tax cuts for families and businesses, and making sure that we were providing states and individuals some support when the roof was caving in.
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And the notion that I would somehow resist doing something that cost half as much but would produce twice as many jobs — why would I resist that? I wouldn’t. I mean, that’s my point, is that — I am not an ideologue. I’m not. It doesn’t make sense if somebody could tell me you could do this cheaper and get increased results that I wouldn’t say, great. The problem is, I couldn’t find credible economists who would back up the claims that you just made.

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or maybe this part, where he shuts down the notion of across the board tax cuts?
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So I think that we’ve got to look at what specific proposals you’re putting forward, and — this is the last point I’ll make — if you’re calling for just across-the-board tax cuts, and then on the other hand saying that we’re somehow going to balance our budget, I’m going to want to take a look at your math and see how that works, because the issue of deficit and debt is another area where there has been a tendency for some inconsistent statements. How’s that? All right?

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or perhaps here, where he discusses Ryan’s notion of an immediate spending freeze?
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Now, the reason that I’m not proposing the discretionary freeze take into effect this year — we prepared a budget for 2010, it’s now going forward — is, again, I am just listening to the consensus among people who know the economy best. And what they will say is that if you either increase taxes or significantly lowered spending when the economy remains somewhat fragile, that that would have a destimulative effect and potentially you’d see a lot of folks losing business, more folks potentially losing jobs. That would be a mistake when the economy has not fully taken off. That’s why I’ve proposed to do it for the next fiscal year. So that’s point number two.

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I’m not really seeing the parts where Obama looks stupid.

As far as buying Chinese propaganda, (1) Obama mentioned India and Germany as other countries moving ahead on their infrastructure, but you’ve chosen to ignore it and (2) from all appearances, the infrastructure there is still humming along 2 years after the Olympics and expanding.
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A lot of what they did was a sham — the air pollution there is toxic, for instance, no matter what they rigged for the games — but on this instance, it’s legit.

Guys, when Obama conceded that HCR didn’t meet two core promises (i.e., if you like your insurance you can keep it, and nothing will come between patients and doctors), he dropped a big steamer on HCR.

Abe Lincoln would have said;
“You can fool some of the people, ALL of the time”… ;^)
— cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth

Dude, he was talking about the Beijing Olympics. Do you know what those guys had to do in order to show off their new infrastructure? And a few modern things do not make a country full of great infrastructure. Obama waaaaaaaaaay oversold the case. He was wrong, and that’s that.

Hmmm, yes, let’s go after two institutions that were not responsible for the Recession:
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Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis
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Federal housing data reveal that the charges aren’t true, and that the private sector, not the government or government-backed companies, was behind the soaring subprime lending at the core of the crisis.

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http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53802.html
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Yes, let’s do that instead of regulating Wall Street, because, you know, regulating is hard.
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That will get us some security and prosperity right there.

No no, we all have our gripes about Obama’s approach to health care reform.
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I want you to point to the part where he looks stupid.

Given the fact that only 33% (THIRTY-THREE PERCENT!) of Democrats can identify the U.S. Senate majority leader, can we go ahead and prohibit the other 67% of Dumbocrats from voting and thus cancelling out the votes of the pro-America community? http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1478/political-iq-quiz-knowledge-filibuster-debt-colbert-steele

Oh please, I wish someone would look at some real facts for a change. Since when do we have all this hub bub over 600 people getting together in a hotel? Heck I could get get that many people to sign up for weekend trip to Disney but it doesn’t make me the fourth political wave. If you look at some real polling you will find that the GOP’s numbers are still diminishing only about a fifth of the country will claim them and after all is said and done, their approval numbers haven’t moved out of the margin of error since 2008. while the media keeps writing the story about the Republican resurgence, the internals don’t show it in fact, the public still thinks the Democrats are better on all of their issues and they want something done and they trust Obama and they don’t trust the GOP. All of this misreading of the polls by journalists who basically don’t understand polling is part of the problem. The rest of it is they want so badly to have a two party food fight that they are completely denying the fact the one of the parties is practically non-existent. All they can do is hope that Democrats continue to feel dejected and think that the GOP’s rise is so inevitable that they don’t bother to come out in 2010. But this is a false story and if the media would stop trying to prematurely write the Democrats epitaph someone might eventually figure that out.

What, apr, that Kerry wasn’t all that?
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Put it this way, apr, I wore the uniform of a US Navy officer. I would not say that Kerry’s actions in getting out of Vietnam reflected a whole lot of credit upon him or the officer corps. (Pronounced “core”, not “corpse”).

spob is that the new talking point for today, Obama is stupid? Why don’t you throw in Limbaugh’s perptuating the hoax that Obama did not write his Harvard law thesis? It has been thouroughly debunked but old Rush wont take it back or apologize for his accusation.
spob, I don’t think you will find any liberal being pleased with how Obama has handled HCR. I was saddened to see him lecture the Dems to stand strong and get HCR done. He dumped it on them, said nothing about the Baucus debacle,stayed mute during most of the August recess as the press allowed the tea partiers and their supporters to define and pervert HCR, waffled on the public option, and on and on. I was glad to hear Senator Franken had enough and pointed out to Obama that he has been less than stalwart on HCR.
Being critical of your party can help make it stronger. Being a robotic supporter does not.

When did he say that, spob? His rhetoric about that still seems intact, and nothing in the bill has changed.
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Can you provide a link?

But really, that’s all besides the point.
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I have thoughts about bank regulations and spob has thoughts about bank regulations.
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I want to know what Mr. earljr1 thinks about bank regulations, specifically in relation to security and prosperity and freedom.

spob I guess you wouldn’t know propoganda if it bit you in the a$$.

Hey, Earl junior!
A *socialistic* society is one characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended. (From Wikipedia.) My comment: This is completely different from Marxism (to each according to his needs, NOT according to what he has earned) or Communism which is a huge farce. Russia has made the word communism meaningless.

*Freedom* (also from Wikipedia) is the human value, or situation, to act according to one’s will without being held up by the power of others.

My comment: Sorry, but NO ONE is free. Even if you have acreage in Idaho with a cabin up near the tree line that nobody but you knows about, even if you live off the land, you are still not free. You have a very limited set of things and experiences that you are ‘free’ to have, but you are not, for example, free to be a star on Broadway or to drive on streets and roads which are owned and maintained by the local government (without paying for your license and registration and insurance). The only way to live your life ‘free’ is to live it totally without contact with the rest of the human race.

alice j

He was talking about the Beijing Olympics? When?
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I’m talking about the State of the Union address, where he said:
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For those who make these claims, I have one simple question: How long should we wait? How long should America put its future on hold? (Applause.)
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You see, Washington has been telling us to wait for decades, even as the problems have grown worse. Meanwhile, China is not waiting to revamp its economy. Germany is not waiting. India is not waiting. These nations — they’re not standing still. These nations aren’t playing for second place. They’re putting more emphasis on math and science. They’re rebuilding their infrastructure. They’re making serious investments in clean energy because they want those jobs. Well, I do not accept second place for the United States of America. (Applause.)

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Did conservatives get a different speech broadcast to them?

Cliff, Obama wants HCR (as currently constituted) passed. But in his meeting with the Repubs, he said HCR (as currently constituted) didn’t meet two core promises.
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So let’s look at a hypothetical Q & A between press and Senator Wingnut (R-XX).
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Q: The GOP has been called the party of no. What do you say to people who claim that the GOP shouldn’t have blocked Healthcare reform?
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A: Well, I think the American people wanted healthcare reform to have certain attributes, namely that if people were happy with what they have then it wouldn’t change and that government wouldnt interfere with the doctor patient relationship. As the President noted, the proposed legislation violated those precepts, and therefore we’re happy to stand with the President in demanding better from the majority.

What percentage of Democrats, if reading from Obama’s teleprompter, would pronounce corpsman as “corpse-man” like the clueless Kenyan socialist does? http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/02/04/obama_mispronounces_corpsman_at_prayer_breakfast.html

The Tea Party movement…has more nuts than a forest of almond trees.
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JK,
That’s a lot of nuts, surely. Yet, you contend that the movement is mostly comprised of patriotic Americans who are concerned about the drift of the country away from prosperity and, they believe, freedom.
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So, I ask, just how widespread is this movement, JK? It must be rather large to include mostly sensible Americans, yet have more nuts than a forest of almond trees also in the ranks. If all these nuts are simply a small portion of the movement amid a mostly patriotic mix, the TEA movement must be huge. But, I thought it was just some fringe inanity, what with only 600 attendees at its national convention. Maybe, just maybe, this national convention does not even begin to represent the fears and anxieties of the millions of TEA partiers across the nation, JK.

And only 37% of Republicans know who’s the head of the Republican National Committee.
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I’d imagine more Republicans know of Reid because they watch Fox News, where Reid is constantly singled out for attention like he’s some kind of child rapist on the loose.
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http://www.google.com/search?q=%22fox+news%22+%22harry+reid%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Weak.

apr, I dont defend Rush. I don’t listen to people who make fun of 13 year old girls by calling them dogs.
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As for your other stuff, well, I’d say it’s not a meme for the day. Just seems odd that this guy is supposed to be some kind of genius. But he seems to me to be like a dorm room Marxist–mostly sophistry with some hackneyed crap masquerading as wisdom. I mean really, China’s infrastructure better than ours? Or that Winston Churchill wouldnt have said “We don’t torture”? Come on.
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And ya know, I wasn’t a Con Law Prof, but I did recall Powell v. McCormick off the top of my head when the Burris issue came up.

Dee, well said. I was watching Hardball and Matthews was interviewing Chuck Todd and some guy from the notoriously even handed and always correct Politico. They were all having great yuks about the prospect of really dirty politics in the 2010 elections. It was going to be so much fun. Think of all the misinformation the villagers can pass on and how little context it will have. Sort of how they reported the run up to the Iraq war and its consequences. Oh goody the press gets to go to war. Hearst would have understood.
No consideration of the seriousness of the issues, just what it will do for their self-centered reporting. Then they can all meet at Sally Quinn’s house (now a Fox regular) and pat each other on the back about how superior they are.

spob glad to hear your opinion of Rush.

spob, I’m still not sure what you’re talking about. Can you give us a little quote there? You know, just really nail down where it is Obama sounds dumb.

Here’s the link:
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http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time.com/2010/01/29/obamas-stunning-admission/
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Guys, if you don’t think this was a deuce drop, ask how you;d feel if you were Harry Reid.

During the campaign, at a stop in Virginia. He actually said that China’s infrastructure was better than ours and that we should emulate them. (Yeah, I guess he missed the earthquake.)

Given the fact that 61% of Democrats are whack job 9/11 Truther conspiracy theorists, what percentage of Democrats believe in the tooth fairy? http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance

“The only thing that motivates that particular conspiracy theory is bitterness over loosing an election.”

The only thing that motivates that particular conspiracy theory is bitterness over loosing an election to a black man.

Really, spob? He chides congressional Democrats for straying a little off his message as they crafted their HCR bill, and of course RealClearPolitics predictably hyperventilates about it, and … we’re supposed to care? Really?
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Sorry, no. Just because RCP says it’s “stunning” or Drudge puts a flashing red siren by it, or Fox News issues an ALERT, it doesn’t mean it’s that big a deal. It only means the conservative media machine wants it to be.

Link please. You’ve demonstrated an ability to read a little too much into things.

Thirty-five percent (35%) of Democrats believe he did know, 39% say he did not know, and 26% are not sure.
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That’s 35%, Textee, again, 35%. Interesting math, adding together the cynically inclined with those who are unsure and then calling them all conspiracy theorists. Nicely done. Idiot.

The poll asked if Democrats thought Bush “knew about the attacks before they happened” not if they believed in the 9/11 conspiracy BS that had Bush orchestrating the attacks.
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It’s a typically misleading question from Republican Rasmussen, but it’s easy to see that people who know the fact Bush was explicitly warned about the impending al Qaeda attacks in the August 2001 PDB which he ignored might take that as an indication he “knew” they were coming.
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But even then, you’re lying as usual. The percentage saying yes to that is 35%, not 61%.

Cliff, I am a practicing physician, (trauma surgeon) not an economist. Most Doctor’s let their wives balance the check book. Should banks be regulated? of course they should. Should there be oversight provided, absolutely (see Fannie and Freddie) Should there be health care reform? without doubt (now I am in my arena) but NOT the deeply flawed bill that almost got jammed down our throats…thank God for the tea party and independent voters ( I happen to be one). What transpired in Massachusetts probably saved the best health care system in the world. While I am on this subject, ALL Americans (including liberals) should INSIST that members of Congress take the exact same coverage they mandate for the public…no more exemptions, no more back room deals and where in the heck is tort reform?

Exiled and I have disagreed on a lot, but it’s nice to see that we can agree that textee is an idiot.
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We won’t hold him against your side, Exiled.

Earljr1,
You are correct. In any organization of any size you will have a minority of nuts. That’s true of the Tea Party, Liberal/Progressives, Republicans, Democrats and any other organization of any size.
Joe Klein as usual does a disservice to the Tea Baggers by making comments like they have a lot of nuts as if they are the only organization that does. He makes it sound like this is what defines the Tea Baggers.
He tries to appear fair by making an opening statement that sound fair then Bag here comes his real message.
If Joe had any courage, he would make a comment clarifying his one sided comment. But don’t hold your breath. He seldom correct the liberal bias he almost always shows.

Now I’m just waiting for Rusty to come out of his hole and yell “See! I told you Exiled was a liberal!”

Dear ajjohnson, what precipitated this rant? I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you defending Socialism?

When O’Reilly interviewed Stewart this week on his show, he edited the back and forth. He did include the whole interview on his web site. A little disingenuous. However, he forgot to edit out the exchange on his televised show where Stewart explained the full measure of their propoganda.
1. Issue brought up on their morning show (eg death panels).
2. During the day their so called non-biased reporters continue the talking point by stating “some people say” (of course accompanied by screaming chyrons and often dramatic music)
3. Meme hits the evening crew where they go full bore on the misinformation.
4. Traditional media picks it up and repeats it.
As Stewart said, it is brilliant propogandizing.
Then, of course, the Fox audience trust them so much, they are true believers.
Later if called on the misinformation they usually ignore the accuser or deny what is on video (Beck-Slaughter).

Yeah, sorry about that.

Kev, he drops a deuce on HCR, and that makes passage of the bill less likely and it gives the GOP cover for blocking it.
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Real shrewd.

No worries. It wouldn’t be the first time that Rusty has challenged my conservative credentials. He views partisanship and principles as one and the same, therefore if I reject a GOP line on occasion, or come to the defense of a Democrat, or worse a liberal, than I must not be conservative.

Maybe I wouldn’t. But this military guy sure knows a shirker when he sees one. Like I said, can I say I wouldn’t have pulled a Kerry to get out of combat? No. I hope that I wouldn’t, and I would have been ashamed for my kids to find out.

earljr1,
Don’t you realize that all of us independents and republicans that are apposed to Obamacare are evil people who just want poor people to die quickly. At least that’s what I here from Liberals, Progressives and Democratic members of Congress. We are just a bunch of fat cats who don’t care about anyone else but ourselves.

How ignorant can these people be? Their minds are so closed and warped that they can not believe that there are compassionate people like you and me that probably do more to help people in need then any of them do. We truly believe Obamacare will be a disaster for the people of our country. They talk about our broken healthcare system. What they don’t understand is that it is by far the best healthcare system in the world that does need changes to make it even better. It does not need a complete overhaul and be made into another government run program that will go bankrupt like all the other government run programs and lead to the deterioration of quality in our healthcare system.

Here ya go:
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http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/08/did-obama-just.html
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The man’s trite. Just trite.

Cliff, if you think that Fannie and Freddie’s purchasing and repackaging of loans didn’t help create the crisis, you’re nuts.
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And I’m guessing that you think that the CRA had nothing to do with it either. Whatever.
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How’s that credit card legislation turning out?
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And how many jobs and revenue has Sarbanes-Oxley cost? London was sure happy about it.

I don’t see it that way. He nudged congressional Democrats to stick to his script in passing, while repeatedly — with the Senate Dems, with the DNC today, in the SOTU, with the House GOP — reiterated the need to get HCR through. You’re focusing on one brief comment, and ignoring the bulk of his discussion on HCR.

What Oregon JC said.

“I’m guessing that you think that the CRA had nothing to do with it either.”
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Yes, something passed in the Carter administration lay in wait for thirty years and then *bam* caused the housing market to implode during the Bush years.
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You do realize that the independent mortgage companies that led the way in the subprime mortgage spree were never subject to the CRA, right?
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You know that there’s nothing in the CRA that forced lenders to lend to people with no mortgage payment history, nothing that forced them to skip verifying recipients’ income? They did that stupid move on their own.
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You realize that the adoption of automated underwriting systems that greenlit so many of these stupid loans was not part of CRA, right?
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You know that the areas that led the subprime mortgage trend were largely white, suburban and affluent, right?
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No, I’m guessing you know nothing about the details of the CRA. Someone told you it was to blame, and you believed it without questioning why.

Dan Riehl is your authority? Really? No wonder you think so many things that aren’t true actually are.

Kevin, the link has an embedded video.

Exiled: you just made my day.

Klein presented a far more thoughtful post immediately preceding this one. It looked to be interesting, but when I saw this one pop up, a much more knee jerk, emotional shot at the tea party, my thought was, this one will overshadow the first. It appears I was correct (use caution when using the words “right” or “left” here). This useless exchange is a reflection of bad things. I gave up when John Kerry and the swift boat deal was rehashed. Have fun, folks, I won’t bother with this any longer.

Well, Kev, the HCR as currently constituted is pretty much the only game in town, and he dealt it a blow. Not smart politics.

Kevin, the link has a video embedded. Obama’s quote is pretty trite.

The problem, exiled, is that you’re assuming that being concerned and patriotic and being a nut are mutually exclusive. I don’t think they are.

No, no that doesn’t really prove Obama’s stupid.
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I mean, you might not have been paying attention for the past year, but the GOP hasn’t really needed any sort of cover to oppose health care reform.
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So Obama talking about how his hands-off approach gave him different results than he wanted is really just declaring the obvious.

And I’m guessing that you think that the CRA had nothing to do with it either. Whatever.
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Do you believe these lies, or do you knowingly disseminate them, I wonder?
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Putting together these facts provides a striking result: Only 6 percent of all the higher-priced loans were extended by CRA-covered lenders to lower-income borrowers or neighborhoods in their CRA assessment areas, the local geographies that are the primary focus for CRA evaluation purposes. This result undermines the assertion by critics of the potential for a substantial role for the CRA in the subprime crisis. In other words, the very small share of all higher-priced loan originations that can reasonably be attributed to the CRA makes it hard to imagine how this law could have contributed in any meaningful way to the current subprime crisis.

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http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/kroszner20081203a.htm#f6

Also:
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Not surprisingly given the higher degree of supervision, loans made under the CRA program were made in a more responsible way than other subprime loans. CRA loans carried lower rates than other subprime loans and were less likely to end up securitized into the mortgage-backed securities that have caused so many losses, according to a recent study by the law firm Traiger & Hinckley (PDF file here).

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http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html

earljr1: I realize that not everyone is an economist. I have a lot of trouble following financial matters in any sort of depth myself.
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My question could be phrased as, “Do you want Wall Street to be regulated severely in light of the economic damage they’ve caused?”

I didn’t know that the Tea Party was the same thing as the Democratic Party but Joe explained it so well. I now understand from:

“It is also has more nuts than a forest of almond trees.”

Thanks Joe.

Don’t watch the puppet show. Watch the puppeteers.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/as-wall-street-is-transformed-a-reminder-from-aaron-russo/

Ohiolib~
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Greetings.
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Glad I could be of some assistance. My position is very simple, and it’s one that gets me into disputes with those who should agree with me. I’m conservative, generally, libertarian at times. The problem with so many conservatives, as I see it, is that they have been duped into believing the GOP’s platform is always consistent with conservatism. There are many aspects of the GOP positions that are conservative, others that are not. The driving influence, however, is not ideological, but rather self-preservation. As is the case with the Democratic Party. Partisan loyalties thus color the judgments and blur the ideological principles of many conservatives. When I criticize the GOP, or call out dishonest conservatism such as Textee’s lurid insanity, the reflexively partisan, yet intellectually rudimentary, response is to dismiss my alleged conservatism. It’s a very lethargic exercise in political discourse.
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I generally do not ascribe to liberalism, though I respect its tenets. I wholly reject progressivism. However, what I do appreciate and recognize about liberals is that they are generally more willing to call out their own party when they see it as deviating from its purported ideological motivations. This is a healthy and honest tendency, apparently lost on conservatives such as Rusty, Spob, et al. This is not simply a rightest deficiency, but it’s more flagrant here in the Swamp among conservative commenters. Though, you do have Dee, and she exhibits some of the more detested affections for anything Democratic, even those statist aspects that insult liberalism to the core.

3xfire, I understand your frustration. Liberals are notorious for their closed mindset and it is useless to argue with them…they retort time and time again with the same old tired talking points. Point in case, the stunning defeat they suffered in Massachusetts! Never, in all of my life, have I seen so much finger pointing and heard such ineffectual squawking.Instead of looking inward, it was “ignorant, know nothing tea baggers who are too dumb to understand anything”, then from the “anointed one” himself, it was because people are still mad at GWB! Go figure, we are still mad at GWB and we show that anger by electing a Republican! Are these people stupid, or what?

No, Cliff, I do not think severe restrictions are required. Simple oversight (with real clout) should be adequate. The free market has worked extremely well over the years, so let it function. DO, by all means, watch the hen house. Fat cats like Barney and Chris have grown obscenely obese feeding at the public trough, it is time to put an end to this fiasco. The oversight should be bipartisan and meaningful, not afraid to raise the roof when chicanery is suspected. You dismiss the idea that Fannie and Freddie had anything to do with this current crisis…I respectfully disagree.

Joe Klein is very kind to those extremists, the so called “tea party” people. Besides being nuts they are also racists and sometimes naive. Anybody that gets “enlightened” by Sarah Palin… They throw the word marxists, socialist, etc., without knowing the meaning of the words. Many of them belong in Nazi Germany. I’d bet they would love to have a Hitler for leader. Another thing, they call themselves “real Americans” as if they were native americans. Their ancestors probably came here illeagally and helped massacre the real “real Americans”, the indians.

Golinus, your commentary is reprehensible and grossly misinformed. You represent the precise reason the tea party movement came into being. Elitist snobs putting down every day Americans who are asking for better government from our elected officials…what can possibly be wrong with that? People like you, accepting blindly the current status, deserve exactly what they get. Fortunately, there are enough of us who think differently and we WILL make a difference (see Massachusetts) Keep putting us down in your cavalier fashion and watch us gain traction…when this happens, as it inevitably will, give yourself a big pat on the back!

earljr1, I agree with you that my comments were uncalled for and reprehensible. Most of the tea party members are decent, hard working Americans and want the best for the country. Some of the comments cursing anybody that does not agree with them, got to me but that is no excuse to generalize. My apologies.

golinus, thanks for your above comments. I too get frustrated on a regular basis.

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Thank you, golinus, apology accepted. It is easy to get carried away when you feel passionate about something.

Well, you call us everything in the book and slander us for months, we do not care what you think. Just be happy we are trying to do it the right way and not just start a civil war! And to Joe who thinks we are so stupid. I could do your job anyday, anytime. I know you could not do mine and I would put a year’s salary up for it! So, are you game big boy?

I can see by the posts on this site, that it is futile to try and work democratically with liberals. You talk about Tea Party movement being nuts. I have read many posts from you libs wanting to kill us all, hoping we die, we are Nazis, racists, you do not know me or my friends. That is called stereo typing. When someone is not being reasonable, then why would we even care to listen what you think. Like I said, you can keep pushing, but if you keep bypassing the system, we will too and start a civil war, which I think we need. Since we have people like these that don’t apprieciate anything that has been done for them. In what country do you pay into a retirement system that you will not get any return from, but they are paying out to illegal aliens that never put a dime into the system? And then to say that is racist? You are nuts, go to Baja Mexico and try to buy a house. Their government kicked our people out after they purchased their homes, but we are the bad ones? Ever look at how many illegals are raping, killing, robbing, and not just adults, children too. Then they sneek back over the border. But they are just trying to take care of their families? BS!

Screw you, we do not care what you think. You slander us and call us Nazis and racists and then you are going to cry about the Marxist comments? It is true, wealth redistribution is Marxism, don’t like, don’t support it. It is amazing how ignorant some people have become. Like the fact that Social Security is bankrupt and you do not care, why? I guess most libs are independantly weathly? I am not, not even close, do you know why? Because I worked for liberal companies that paid less then the country’s average, because they were the cheapest people I ever worked for, while giving millions and millions away to these left wing associations, instead of taking care of the ones that made you BILLIONS. I could care less what any liberal thinks! Please, grow a pair and start a civil war, you libs are dragging down the country.