The Tea Party Goes Mainstream

I’m not a fan of the tea-partiers, but I think that Democrats ignore/marginalize them at their own peril. Things like this show that these guys are serious.

“Ensuring Liberty (already in my head I’m confusing it with Operation Enduring Freedom)”

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First I am actually shocked to say the least that you even know about Operation Enduring Freedom, but not surprised that your “confusion” in your head equates Ensuring Liberty with Enduring Freedom.
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Try again little JNS. It’s not working.

Did you drink the water when you were in Haiti, Jay?

If the Tea People are enduring (and harnessing even legitimate anger is tough for the long term) then they ought to go 3rd party.

Having said that I am very curious to see the RNC’s response to so many of their frontline/grassroots activists straying.

Populism is a tricky thing to try to co-op. See:Democratic Party 2009-2010

Why do we need to know so much about trhis Chai Party and their escapades, anyway!

JNS, didn’t you have anything else to do? Is TIME somehow affiliated with them?

geoTEA ! [Got Enough Of TEA!]
fuTEA! [Fed Up with TEA!]

Thanks, Jay. Have you bought “tea shirts” for souvenirs? I can imagine buying “keep your government hands off my Medicare” shirts for Karen and Kate.
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Given AFP and other corporate backing for the TP HCR protests, I’m not surprised at the new EL’s acceptance of corporate money. However, what will be their limits, if any, esp. for bank donations? I can see banks trying to secretly “buy their way in” to influence events, but some real TP’ers are opposed to Wall Street / Big Bank corruption and theft of our tax money / TARP (that’s one of the few TP issues I’m in full agreement on).
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Any more tips / thoughts about corp. funding, Jay? Thanks and have fun. Will you be snowed in there (DC crappy weather)? If yes, can you drive over to Memphis and eat bbq all weekend?

“Why do we need to know so much about trhis Chai Party and their escapades, anyway!”

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Well for starters, it is not some baked up ACORN paid rally for intimidators to try and shut down opposition.
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It’s also not the Black Panthers who attempt to intimidate voters trying to cast ballots in Philadelphia which was done in the last election.
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It’s not big Labor Union thugs represented by SEIU who threw peaceful demonstrators to the ground because they were upset with all the crazy crap that Obama has been trying to pass over the past year.
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I do believe you have a very real and viable grassroots organization which is forming right before your very eyeballs, cfuk.
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Enjoy!!

Here you go Paul. I’ll let you in on a little Tea Party Patriot secret. It is not about creating another 3rd party, although I don’t think in time that would not be a bad thing for our country. Here is the direction the real organizers and those who are very active in the Tea Party Patriot movement are headed.
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http://theprecinctproject.wordpress.com/
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Let’s just call it a “Community Organizing” re-birth, conservative style.

Physician you know your history of creepiness means I would never click one of your links, care to summarize?

“Things like this show that these guys are serious.”

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You betcha!!
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You betcha sweet little liberal a$$ baby!!
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But seriously, just go to this one Tea Party Patriot site and see / read all the comments. Now I will warn you, it may scare you a little. But, I am confident the sleeping silent majority has awakened.
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http://www.teapartypatriots.org/Default.aspx
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Clink on the tab that says “Patriot Feed”. Enjoy.

rustedreturns: ‘ .. It’s also not the Black Panthers who attempt to intimidate voters ..’

That is nice to know.
While you are listing what they are not, enquiring minds want to know: Could these exotic Chai people be the KKK or Aryan Brotherhood in sleeper cells – intent on disenfranchising non-aryans and, indeed, all liberals who would make one of their nasty barbarian brood president over good people of the white race?

“Well for starters, it is not some baked up ACORN paid rally for intimidators to try and shut down opposition.”
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Rusty, didn’t you notice that ACORN, as an issue, is dead.
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D. E. A. D.
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Last I saw, some volunteers at the local ACORN office were helping low income Americans do their taxes. No RPG’s, no ammo in boxes underneath tables, no signs about getting guns, no signs about “taking back our country”, or any of the like.
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Just a couple ladies helping. That was last Thursday.
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BTW, I wanted to congratulate FOX propaganda network on handling Obama’s 140 on 1 confrontation in true Pravda fashion!
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The one and only “news” station that didn’t carry voice on his replies, but instead filled those spots with views by their top talking heads.
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How Soviet…

Well Paul, here is the title of the web page, and the first paragraph. You can pretty much sumise from both.
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“The Neighborhood Precinct Committeeman Strategy to Take Back the Republican Party and then America at the Ballot Box
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November 24, 2009
The Neighborhood Precinct Committeeman Strategy, outlined below, entails a tried-and-true, peaceful, Constitutional, ballot box solution to our present political predicament. The procedures and system for this solution have been in existence for decades. Obama used them.

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When I read it, it reads almost like an updated Sal Alinsky book. Only it is geared to conservatives, the Tea Party Patriots and anyone who wishes to stop big liberal Government. All of the buzz words are conservative or libertarian leaning.
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The writer goes on with a step by step process of how to get uninformed people who have never been active in any political process started on their way to becoming active in the local Republican or even Democrat Party committees and meetings. How to be a precinct captain or committee chair for a local district, township or voter district. A very interesting read. To bad you are too afraid to click on the link. But, hey your loss, not mine.

This is like them. They really know nothing whatsoever of what it means to have ones’ liberties denied.
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I know that if I gave you the opportunity to list what demographic entities know this subject intimately, you would be able to make at least two, if not more, accurate entries.
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Rusty?
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See sentance #2…

Yea right 53, D.E.A.D like a possum maybe. ACORN is quite alive and well so friends of mine tell me. Their activism in the inner cities is still pumping out propaganda with our tax dollars.
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Fox put a major hurt to them, but they are far from dead. Renamed and more under the SEIU umbrella of covert activist programs. But, far from D.E.A.D.
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Would you care to list just what liberties you are losing, Rusty?
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I would love to see them, and compare you claims to the situation, say, 45 to 55 years ago.
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Let’s just see just how low the bar has been lowered, why don’t we?

Jay Newton-Small:
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Is the Tea Party movement an organically-spawned, populist political phenomenon, as the right asserts, or is it a corporate-backed, Roger Ailes-sponsored, triumph of sophisticated public relations trickery, as liberals such as Rachel Maddow have claimed?
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Is it a real popular movement (albeit small), or is it pro shills, industry cash and astro-turf (and Fox News’ enthusiastic coverage)?
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You’re there, can you settle this question for us, Jay Newton-Small?

Wow talk about bunker builders. You and 53 must really be scared at night, cfuk.
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I am positive that if you went to a Tea Party Patriot function you would not only be welcomed with open arms, but they would even give you their favorite receipe!

They are, Rusty?
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Wow. Ok. Guess those little old ladies are really terrorists, and that there is one of those secret walls that when you punch your secret code in, opens up to reveal a massive cache of arms, peopled by large nameless men with shiny shoes.
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And of course, SEIU is in the Get Smart Program, too!
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Hecks, why not just say that it’s all just a vast left-wing conspiracy, Rusty?
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Keep up the Good Work, Comrade…

Well, Rusty, answer the question I put to you at 2.2 and let’s really see what “liberties” you are at risk of “losing”.
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I’d love to see that list…

If we were looking at this from a distance of say, 10 years, the most recent Supreme Court decision and the “mainstreaming” of the Tea Party would take on the appearance of a causal chain of events…

Corporate Rusty The Propagandizing “Physician”.
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I just realized something in saying that:
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Given the Supreme Courts’ recent legal fart, Rusty’s reinvigoration might just have something to do with a new income stream…

Oh, and Rusty:
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ka-ching! ka-ching!

I wish the traditional media would dig a little deeper. Instead of automatically labeling it a “populist” movement, it might be worthwhile to find out what tea partiers think is populist and how it relates to reality. It would be good to know who is behind ALL of the fractured tea party groups. If they are going to take corporate money, who are these corps, and what will their influence be on a “populist” group? Who is in charge of where money will be channeled? If this is truely a non-partisan group, what Democrats might they support? Which of the tea party groups is truest to their defined purity? I personally would like a chart of all these groups, who supports them, who sponsors them, who are their real and defacto leaders, and how do they interact. It appears to me to be a shell game, manipulating and moving fast.

Community activism? I’m all for it.

53 I am not going to debate freedom and liberty with you. You will undoubtedly take it to some racial level as you always do. In the end, you will rant “racist”.
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Suffice it to say most people in this country know with Obam’ma bin Laden’s current path of complete destruction of the Constitution, the entire Bill of Rights is under attack by the far left he represents.
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Remember?? “Joe we must spread the wealth in this country”.
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His policies and programs over the past year have clearly demonstrated he is for “change”. But change Obam’ma bin Laden style for Chavez like neo-liberal-socialism is not the change that Tea Party Patriots want for this country.
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Obama is and has grown up with adoring adolation for the Marist / Communist ideals instilled by his Mother, to his “Uncle”/Mentor Frank Marshall Davis, to his days at Columbia studying Sal Alinsky.
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I will give him one thing, he studied well. He may not know what a Corpsman is in the Navy or how to pronounce it even, but he sure does know how to “Community Organize”. With ACORN and SEIU’s help, he attained the highest political office in this country. But, his days are numbered.
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How many days until Nov 6th, 2012?

OOOooooo….bunker, IQ53…bunker. Better start buildng now sunshine!!!

Now if Sarah Palin would only match the Tea Partiers funding instead of spending all of her PAC’s money on copies of her own book…

http://www.political-buzz.com/

stz,
Good post. Hopefully you get a fair and truthful answer.

I answered your questions regarding race on the other post. Looking forward to your response.

Rusty~
Apollyon, a liberal? Sarcasm? Please clarify. Just yesterday you referred to me as a liberal, progressive, although you added the caveat that I am honest and civil. Thanks. I’m beginning to believe that you view anyone left of you, however slight, as some progressive. In fact, I have a lengthy response to you at the end of the “Bring on the Tea” thread that I would rather appreciate your thoughts on. I think it may help clear the misunderstanding here.

…posting to crickets again (sigh)….

Matt,
With over two million copies sold I don’t think copies she sent to her PAC supporters changed the total number very much.
But you already knew that. You were just trying unsuccessfully to be cute.
Don’t let facts get in the way of your views.

Sorry — I am running from one seminar to another. There are 3 going on simultaneously, so I trying to get a flavor for them all. In re corp funding — the recent scotus ruling pretty much means there’re no limits, so it’ll probably be huge.

Randomly: weirdest session thus far: emergency preparedness. How do CB radios, food stores and evacuation routes relate to conservatism? Please tell me it’s not just paranoia about the end of days?
JNS

SZ~
…or is it [the TEA movement] a corporate-backed, Roger Ailes-sponsored, triumph of sophisticated public relations trickery, as liberals such as Rachel Maddow have claimed?
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Has she? I just watched her last night praising, or at least respecting, the TEA Party’s opposition to the Citizens United decision as it supplants individual liberty with corporate liberty, according to a TEA spokesman. Now I ask, Stuart, why would a corporate backed movement include spokespeople who decry a court decision that they perceive as replacing individual liberty by expanding corporate rights? I disagree with this characterization of the Citizens United decision, however, according to Maddow, this is the view of TEA, and one she respects.

stuartzechman,
I think it is an honest grassroots movement but they risk selling their souls a bit with this PAC and self-fulfilling Maddow’s take on them.
You hear the same stories over and over again here: I’m scared to death of the spending, I don’t understand the direction our country is going in. This is a lot of change for many of the older folks and they’re freaked out — this particular convention is like a gathering of grannies (they are mostly grey-hairs) worried about the dangers of their grandkids racing around. Everything feels too fast to them – like the country’s going over the precipice. Their reactions are honest. And their intentions — for all the narrow-mindedness that comes with older middle-Americans — are, for the most part, good.
JNS

So this week I’ve been called a far-right, kool-aid drinking Republica, and now a liberal. This is pretty funny.
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PS Rusty if you would’ve carefully looked at what I wrote you would’ve discerned that I was making a positive (albeit hesitant) comment about the tea-partiers.

Thanks, Jay. I appreciate your reply. re: end of days / canned goods, “the rapture” is popular with some religious groups but maybe the 2012 thingy also comes into play (the star / planet alignment + alleged Mayan stuff, NOT Obama vs. Palin race)? Or someone’s trying to sell canning supplies to a friendly crowd?
Here’s a site that covers 2012 (w/ ticking countdown) – http://www.2012warning.com/
…and an ’09 tea party post – http://www.2012warning.com/tea-party-4-15-2009.htm

Jay Newton-Small:
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I really, very truly appreciate this response of yours, thank you so much.
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It’s a very important thing to get straight, this question of the legitimacy or organic nature of the Tea Party movement, and so I can’t tell you how helpful it is that you’re our eyes and ears on the ground, where we cannot necessarily physically be.
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I am so grateful that you’ve answered this, much more so even than when you answer some of my more invective filled commentary (which I also appreciate, of course).
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Thank you once again, Jay Newton-Small.
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I look forward to reading your analysis.

3xfire3: I’ve responded to your comment here: ( link to overlong, boring, tediously typical zechman commentary )

To answer SZ, I’d say the answer is both. I keep going back to this excellent GG post:
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“Whether you call it “a government takeover of the private sector” or a “private sector takeover of government,” it’s the same thing: a merger of government power and corporate interests which benefits both of the merged entities (the party in power and the corporations) at everyone else’s expense. Growing anger over that is rooted far more in an insider/outsider dichotomy over who controls Washington than it is in the standard conservative/liberal ideological splits from the 1990s. It’s true that the people who are angry enough to attend tea parties are being exploited and misled by GOP operatives and right-wing polemicists, but many of their grievances about how Washington is ignoring their interests are valid, and the Democratic Party has no answers for them because it’s dependent upon and supportive of that corporatist model. That’s why they turn to Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh; what could a Democratic Party dependent upon corporate funding and subservient to its interests possibly have to say to populist anger?”

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/12/18/corporatism/index.html

Their old, ridiculous, narrow-minded intentions are good. Yes, this makes a lot of sense. I’m glad the mainstream is benefiting from their sage wisdom on how “fast” the country seems to have elected a black president. Nothing bad could possibly result from these people’s good intentions, or from the sale of their precious souls to corporations. Right?
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Please. These people would sweep human ashes from their doorsteps without a regret if they thought it helped their preposterous world make sense.

Oregon JC:
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Try telling that to liberals who are ideologically convinced that there is no such thing as the popular right, that all rightists are just the dependent, idiot tools of capitalists and authoritarian power.
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I’ve been saying for a very, very long time here that we need to engage the popular right, that it exists, and that it’s not some puppet attached to an appendage of the ruling class. I’ve been saying that in large part because we will again be voting for the “not the official right-wing” candidate, if the anti-populist powers that be are allowed to scare us with Tea Party/popular right bogeymen whenever they feel we might not show enough electoral enthusiasm for their party (and might want to take it over ourselves).
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I’ve also been saying that these people are not Brown Shirts. If they were, I’d be one of the first to say we should get out there and confront them –with organized violence, if necessary. They’re not Brown Shirts, though, they own shares in condominiums in Boca Raton. I know what real National Front guys look like up close, and these people aren’t that.
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I know what GG is saying, truly I do. I’m a big proponent of that “inside/outside” message.
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It’s a tough sell to a certain kind of liberal, though, and those people make up a huge portion of the Democratic party’s base, unfortunately.

apollyon07:
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That’s actually pretty cool.

Digby said something the other day that connects to GG’s pt. perfectly:
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“I also think that Democrats really don’t like to govern because it makes them feel exposed. They have prostituted themselves to business and adopted neo-liberal principles, but they have to pretend that they are representing working people and the poor. They haven’t developed the skills the Republicans have for that kind of inconsistency and they just seem confused and weak.”
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IOW, the GOP has a narrative that successfully veils how their policies benefit the powers that be/screw the working stiff. And the dem party leadership has nothing. Given the Krug-Reich doomday-ish prognostication about the econ. going FWD, you can clearly see where this is leading. 8 years in the f’ing wilderness and this is the best the dems could come up with, doubling down on the DLC/corporatist/Rahmian model of governance.

Does anyone remember Ross Perot? He started a legitimate third party movement which would appeal to most Tea Partyers. He ran a good campaign, was organized and used his own money.

As good as Ross Perot was, his movement fizzled out. One elected official, Jesse Ventura, governor of Minnesota, and Dean Barkley was briefly the Senator, appointed by Gov. Ventura.

The truth is Tea Partyers are too disorganized and have too many disparate interests to be a coherent organization. Some of them are just Republicans, mad that Republicans, once elected, act like Democrats. (It is interesting how one’s perspective changes, once elected). Others are just disgusted with politics in general and would rather throw all the bums out.

I sympathize with the last group. We all know money runs Washington, whether Democrat or Republican. The more money you give, the more access you have. Politicians feel the need to kiss the butt of major donors because it takes a lot of money to run for office. Now the way to get money out of the equation is to have total public financing of campaigns. Of course, we can already hear the screams of “Socialism!”. Well, quess what, it is the only way you will be able to get candidates who listen to little people instead of the corporate bigwigs. Any candidate who ignored corporate America today can forget about being elected to national office.

Stuart, you asked an excellent question about who are the Tea Baggers. I think the grass-roots are earnest people, and even though I probably disagree with most of their views politically, I think they are good people at heart. However, the movement will be co-oped by Republicans looking to capitalize on the general anger directed at the current administration.

I’m a little late to the conversation, but a few quick questions about the Tea Party folks:

2000 started with a surplus, 2008 ended with deficit, and now they are worried about spending?

The Recovery Act lowered taxes on the middle class and now they’re screaming about undue taxation?

The banks have most of the restraints they worked under since the Depression removed, they gamble like drunken sailors on leave, drive the world economy into the ditch, and now the Tea Party movement is concerned about overzealous government regulation on business?

The Bush administration implements a surveillance program unprecedented in its scope and suspends habeas corpus – cornerstone of our justice system since the republic was established – and now they feel they’re liberties are under assault?

The Supreme Court unleashes unlimited corporate spending into our electoral system and now the populists in the Tea Party movement are quiet?

This is the first time I have heard anyone report on the demographics of the tea party party.
Were these grannies all white or was it more of cross section of Americans?

“They’re not Brown Shirts, though, they own shares in condominiums in Boca Raton. I know what real National Front guys look like up close, and these people aren’t that.”
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Before economic realities had deteriorated sufficiently and certain authoritarian leaders came forward, the Brown Shirts were mostly just average German citizens (if they’d had the chance, they might even have bought condos in Boca). They also had legitimate, exploitable grievances against all of their political and economic elites.
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Let’s just hope that Jay is correct, that the Teapartiers are mostly a “gathering of grannies” and that their deeply ignorant and misguided anti-government, pro “free-market”, authoritarian dogma doesn’t get further inculcated in the public mind and that things don’t get much scarier for average Americans. I’m not sure you understand how very many of us are capable of being turned into “National Front Guys” under the right circumstances. From what I’ve seen of them, lots of the Teabaggers have all the right stuff.
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http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
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http://www.prisonexp.org/

That pretty well describes the process by which “conservatives” destroyed the concept of hypocrisy.

“I’m not sure you understand how very many of us are capable of being turned into “National Front Guys” under the right circumstances.”
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Excellent point. As is your mention of the “legitimate, exploitable grievances against all of their political and economic elites.” Since we can cross the media or schools off the list of institutions that might inform the public about who its real enemies are. Since the dem party has gotten into the futon with the econ. elites and can peddle only farcical populist zingers at the entrenched interests they now represent. Since the Tea Partiers and FDL community are going to join forces and overcome their inherently irreconcilable diffs never, and since both movements can’t quite get beyond the failed 2 party experiment in corp democracy. Since America’s era of econ. dominance is (to the entire free world) plainly over, those legit. grievances are all the more likely to be exploited, skewed towards entirely the wrong culprits.
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If I was a betting man, I’d say the rise of brown shirts is far more likely than a civil, functioning progressive society. I’ve sadly lost the link to this Georgetown prof who was making largely the same pt.

Jay tell me how the tea partiers are mainstream.
As far as I can see they are white and older.
I would love to see a real populist movement. In order to make the tea party movement a populist movement I could accept you would have to remove the racists, the Christianists, the corporists, the people who approve of the abuse of our privacy, the people who approve of torture, those who believe the constitution is situational, the homophobes, the xenophobes, the sexists. How many tea partiers would be left?

Jay, I wish you would change the title of your post. By your own description they are not the picture of mainstream.

As to the mainstream issue, I have never seen so much attention given to a 600 person meeting, except for the last time someone threw a tea tantrum on the National Mall.
There is one reporter there for every four meeting attendees. There is probably a dry cleaners tradeshow meeting in Vegas right now that has 3 times as many attendees.

Several points.
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First, one of the more ubiquitous mistakes I continue to see is the assumption that this National TEA Convention is representative of the larger TEA movement. Most TEA assemblies are on a local basis, either through a chapter of the national TEA Party, or as an independent ad hoc assembly of TEA-like activists. The movement is very decentralized.
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The TEA activists are not largely an elderly constituency. Go to a Massachusetts TEA gathering and you’ll find a ton of stoned, 20 year old libertarians.
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What constitutes mainstream? How, based on demographic evidence, is a gathering of, your words, “white” people not mainstream? If, hypothetically speaking, there were a movement of largely black political activists and I asserted that they were merely fringe, not mainstream, because they are black, what would your reaction be? The black population in the US is under 18%. If I argued that blacks are therefore not mainstream, I am positive you or your colleagues would rebuke and chastise me for insensitivity, or worse, racism.

Exiled: That is why I asked Jay to get a better picture of what constitutes a Tea Partier. See post number 9. Rather than depend on just observation, I want to know about the movement. As I stated above, I would love to see a genuine populist movement. How really “grass root” are all the itterations of the movement? Is it really a movement? Which of their itterations are really mainstream?
After all, this convention has a speaker that yearns for literacy tests for voters. And, the attendees, as few as there are, cheered. He also suggested voters should be tested on their knowledge of civics. I would be careful there. I suggest he test those in attendance to take an objective civics and history test. How would they do?

“If I was a betting man, I’d say the rise of brown shirts is far more likely than a civil, functioning progressive society.”
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Which is also about as likely as common policy ground or, certainly, political leadership to be had between Teabaggers and liberals. We may be roughly on the same side but only liberals know it and know what to do about policy. OTOH, Teabaggers hate liberals, liberal policy and liberal leaders, to the bone.

Exiled: You seem to think that a group of white people cannot be a crazy fringe. That is, of course, racist. The teabaggers are both white and insane. Wrap your mind around it.
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You too, Newton-Small. You seem to think that because teabaggers look and talk like average, mainstream, and yes, white people, that they have good intentions and legitimate grievances. They don’t, and they don’t.

That is why I asked Jay to get a better picture of what constitutes a Tea Partier. See post number 9. Rather than depend on just observation, I want to know about the movement. As I stated above, I would love to see a genuine populist movement. How really “grass root” are all the iterations of the movement? Is it really a movement? Which of their iterations are really mainstream?
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And my point was that you wrote them off as non-mainstream because they are “white and older,” which is actually a media-driven portrayal. Perhaps they are more Caucasian-constituted. This is not surprising in the least. The media framing of the TEA movement likely scared away any minorities who would be inclined to join forces. It’s really quite silly, actually. After a feeding-frenzy of race-baiting allegations of the TEA’s ethnic intolerance, we’re now using the racial homogeneity, if it in fact is the case, to assume the original claims of “racists!” were indeed true. And, of course, the constant barrage of allegations of racism levied against the movement are in no way responsible for any lack of minority presence? Hmm.
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After all, this convention has a speaker that yearns for literacy tests for voters. And, the attendees, as few as there are, cheered.
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As I said, the National Convention does not represent the decentralized independence of the national movement.

Exiled: You seem to think that a group of white people cannot be a crazy fringe. That is, of course, racist.
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Oh yea? Really, I seem to think that? Interesting analysis. Thanks for your insights, Mr. Committee.

Dear Rusty,

Rush and Beck get $$ millions $$ for venting their collective spleen on wierd conspiracy theories and speaking against Obama/Dems … Palin has joined the club now.. Any sane person would have realised by now that they are in the Obama bashing business because of the $$$$$$.

What I don’t understand is, your motivation? Lets admit it, while you are equally entertaining, you don’t get a dime in return..

So thanks for the free entertainment, but have you thought about starting your own talk radio show?

Crazy fringes come in all colors. It’s just a little discombobulated when comfortable whites bitch about paying taxes and how terrible things are from their cushy perches. I keep thinking of the retired Secret Service agent in Jay’s article. He is unhappy with the teat that he has sucked on all his life, and continues to suck on. No worry if he has a heart attack hyperventilating on his imaginary issues, he is covered by that big teat.

I am in moderation. Kiss my…

I will try again, avoiding possibly subversive words that cause the moderators to stir.
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Crazy fringes come in all colors. It’s just a little discombobulated when comfortable whites complain about paying taxes and how terrible thing are from their cushy perspective. I keep thing of the retired secret service agent cited in Jay’s article, who enjoys pension and health care from the government he is troubled with. He lives in his own undecipherable dream world. But he is fat and happy thanks to the US gov’t.

Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Crazy fringes come in all colors. It’s just a little discombobulated when comfortable whites bitch about paying taxes and how terrible things are from their cushy perches. I keep thinking of the retired Secret Service agent in Jay’s article. He is unhappy with the teat that he has sucked on all his life, and continues to suck on. No worry if he has a heart attack hyperventilating on his imaginary issues, he is covered by that big teat.

Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/02/05/the-tea-party-goes-mainstream/#ixzz0ej0zBbgp

Thanks guys, real interesting thread here.
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We may be roughly on the same side
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The tea-parties started out as a FOX sponsored event (2 1/2 mths into the Obama presidency; Hannity, Beck Van Susteren, Cavuto hosted in different cities; relentless coverage). But I think (hope) that these events are evolving to be more grass-roots. That’s good.
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The problem is misinformation (a fixable problem). The TPers don’t realize they share common goals with progressives, while progressives haven’t realized that these are the very people they claim to champion. They should gravitate to one another. I’m wondering: Will the FOX/media addled misinformation keep TPers wary of all-things liberal? and will liberal snobbery keep them from reaching out to the TPers? They’re a natural fit, but neither one realizes it yet.

The issue isn’t how many copies she bought. The issue is that she receives a royalty for each copy purchased. She took donated PAC money and bought her own book, netting herself about $6,000 in royalties. It’s practically the same as if she went on a cruise with PAC money.

Shep said: “We may be roughly on the same side but only liberals know it and know what to do about policy. OTOH, Teabaggers hate liberals, liberal policy and liberal leaders, to the bone.”
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True to a pt. Of course, they hate what has come to stand in for liberal leadership or liberal policy. It’s been so long since actual liberal policies were enacted by full throated unapologetic liberal leaders. I’m sure the average libertarian doesn’t have much good to say about the New Deal or Great Society either, but what they’re flailing against circa 2010 is not liberalism. Not even f’ing close.

apr,

About 99% would be left. These are Americans and proud of it. They don’t buy into any of your ignorant descriptions. The vast majority are just average people who are concerned about the direction the country is going. They are mostly people old enough to be your parents. Stop trying to demonize them. Don’t judge them by a few idiots that the MSM focus on to make the group look bad.

3x if you read my posts you would know my parents would be scary old. I talked about my experience as part of the 50s silent generation that put up with people like the John Birch Society and McCarthy.
All I am doing is asking questions. I don’t know that they are mainstream or if their intentions are good. Jay seems to know this already.
Before I commit to an organization I want to know who they are, what their tenets are, who funds them and who their leaders are.
Tea Partiers have been associated with Dick Army, Glen Beck and FOX news, Tea Party Patriots, Eric Odom of the American Liberty Alliance, Judson Phillips of the Tea Party Nation, Mary Rakovich of Freedom Works and Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform.
Some of these groups and people are unfamiliar to me, as they probably are to you. Don’t you want to know more? I do know who Dick Army is as well as Glen beck and Grover Norquist. Not people I would want to hang with. And how did they become attached to a so called grass roots organization.
I have listened to some of their leaders and speakers and I find them xenophobic (Tancredo), fear mongers (Beck), manipulators (Palin), homophobes (Army), corporists (Norquist).
I’m not saying some or most are extremists. I just want to know more about them. And, so far, I don’t see a lot of thought in their “populist” stance. I find it hard to believe a populist group that doesn’t support labor, doesn’t want bank and Wall Street reform and finds government threatening. A good many of them appear to be of Social Security and Medicare age, as am I, yet hate goverment?

Goldwater talks about party purity.

“It’s been so long since actual liberal policies were enacted by full throated unapologetic liberal leaders.”
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Once I get to know them, I’m fond of pointing out to my conservative friends that every thing they think they know about liberals, they learned from conservatives.

“Suffice it to say most people in this country know with Obam’ma bin Laden’s current path of complete destruction of the Constitution, the entire Bill of Rights is under attack by the far left he represents. -RustyReturns”

Rusty, the only one of the 10 “rights” left of the Bill of Rights after Bush 2 is the one about “quartering British soldiers”, Republicans and some scared Democrats made sure that neither you nor I are secure in our homes from the broad reaches of the federal government. And you sat quietly by and said “can I have another, sir:.

I have heard one news report that only around 600 people showed up for the Teabag Nation conference. Jay, what’s your read on the attendance?

Yep, 600 people. And CNN is giving them non-stop coverage for some reason.
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Oh, wait! they just cut away from their endless coverage of those 600 people to cover 100 other tea partiers who have taken a “conservative cruise” with perennial nutjob Alan Keyes.
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Thanks, “liberal media”!

kevin, you think covering them helps them?
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The more exposure the better, I’m sure they feel that way and I agree.
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Likely not for the same reasons.

“The Tea Party Goes Mainstream”

Please it is just another place where the crazies like Beck, Limbaugh, Palin etc. can gather.
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Don’t tell me what they say they are doing, look at what they are doing.

Great opening speech and great closing prayer for a group of crazies. How can you even Put “goes mainstream” in your Title?

I suppose.
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I just can’t help but contrast the obsessive attention they’re giving these 600 people and the way CNN treated the Feb. 2003 march against the Iraq War in NYC which had 300,000 people.
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Seems like the only time the corporate media pays attention to protest is when it fits their narrative.

“for all the narrow-mindedness that comes with older middle-Americans — are, for the most part, good.”
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Hmm….. I am sure you know what all of us old folks think. Now I know what it is to be a reporter, young and ignorant.
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I am 62 and you just put me with those crazies out there. Any wonder why I really do not like your posts?
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Talk about narrow-minded! Hands down you take the cake!

Comfortable whites?

Stuart, Regarding your post 7.8

Your analysis is correct.

The vast majority of republicans and conservatives are just middle class people who happen to believe in a different approach to governing then the extreme liberal/progressive approach.

These are good people most of who work very hard at helping people in need.

What I find difficult to understand is the level of hate that comes from so many liberals towards these good people. Too many liberals assume that if you do not believe as they do you are evil. I find them to be the most closed minded and hateful people in the world.
I find that even when I make a comment to them stating ideas like those in paragraph 1 above, they come back with more hateful comments. There is absolutely no reasoning with these people.

Not speaking to all the elderly, but given that you just dismissed all TEA activists as crazies, I’d say that you’re certainly in the narrow-mindedness category.

If it is the side they show, then they it must be what they are.

Check out JNS’ latest tweets in the box above. Crowd turning on press – egged on by Breitbart. Guess it will make the liberal media even more cowardly.

The crowd is getting a little scary. I felt safer watching a mob of Haitians lynch and kill a would-be robber last week.
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Perhaps, JNS, you should have thought about this prior to calling them all racists over and over and over again during these pasts months. Now you want to act surprised and shocked that they are angry with you and your colleagues. Please.

Oh Please! it is the image they project that defines what they are called.
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This is the typical Problem with you folks you deflect responsibility, and accountability for your own actions.
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A duck walks like a duck, a dog bark likes a dog, crazies act crazy, and a mob acts like a mob.

I don’t think lovely Jay is in any real danger. The smart TP’ers there should know a genuine riot will create the worst publicity and send the wrong message. Besides, even if the Nashville media is frozen out, the Nashville police aren’t. No way in hell they’ll allow their city to get a PR black eye.

I’m no TEA partier, so I’m not deflecting a damn thing with regard to my accountability. I’m just acknowledging the slightly more complex nuances of the movement than CNN would have you believe. Sure, crazies act like crazies. That’s why CNN puts them on the nightly news, and only them. It wouldn’t be much of a story if there were hundred of people gathering in a peaceful manner espousing no extreme rhetoric, would it?

By mainstream I meant forming 501c4′s and PACs rather than standing on the Mall waving signs. They’re entering into the process now instead of shouting at it.
JNS

“I’m just acknowledging the slightly more complex nuances of the movement than CNN would have you believe”

Hmmm… I do not watch CNN, I do not even have cable. I do talk to people who ID with the TEA Partiers, and to me they are nuts. From a Government without Taxes to Anarchy, and all points between. They are the gathering of this countries malcontent. including those who sole income is that of the Government they despise.

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BS they create there own story.

Thanks or the clarificaton. You had me worried there.

Ivy_B
I weathered the storm quite bravely, I think. As for cowardly — given the last two weeks I just spent in Haiti I invite you to drive yourself into a shattered country, wade knee deep through mass graves, watch people executed and lynched in front of you — not to mention near daily aftershocks of up to 6.1 on the richter scale and see how cowardly you are.
JNS

JNS, I obviously didn’t state my point very well. I didn’t say anything regarding your trip to Haiti, which I agree was quite dangerous and very brave of you to do.
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I was appalled at the behavior of the crowd and certainly didn’t mean to call you cowardly. My point was that the people like Breitbart simply add to the general perception of the media that they have been blaming for 40 years. I believe this is the kind of thing that has turned media like NPR from factual, trustworthy news sources to one that has to rebut any fact with an opposite point of view, no matter how wrong. They play a clip of a Presidential remark and then have a Republican rebut it, even if the President is saying something non-controversial.
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My apologies if you felt I was maligning you personally.

They are the gathering of this countries malcontent. including those who sole income is that of the Government they despise.
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Possibly. Although it also includes pissed off libertarians calling for the impeaching of G.W. for passage of the Patriot Act. But, yea, just all far-right crazies, indeed.

“I find that even when I make a comment to them stating ideas like those in paragraph 1 above, they come back with more hateful comments.”
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What can you really expect from “the extreme liberal/progressive” community?

Paul the constant coverage of the Swiftboaters during Kerry’s run for President sure helped them. It would be ok if the traditional press covered issues and events with any context, but they don’t. Truth is delayed and too many people accept the untruth.

Exiled: There may be some genuinely concerned libertarians there but they stand next to a cheering bunch of Tancredo lovers. It seems to me anyone with any sense of history or moral conviction would not want to associate themselves with those people.
Personally, I wouldn’t want to associate with anyone approved by Glen Beck.

Are you talking about the Convention or the movement? I don’t see many TEA members at the convention, they’re all elsewhere, scattered about the country. What would they want with this $550 a plate convention fanfare?

Oh come on Exiled let’s not banter here. This is the TEA Party, how can you deny it? They are calling themselves the TEA Party, Palin is coming, it is the political movement. So the libertarians aren’t there? They have there own Party.
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If a few Libertarians want to throw there lot with this group, then they are TEA Partiers.
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If you want to make political hay with the group to strengthen opposition to the Democrats, say so, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that the TEA Party is a grass roots movement of ordinary, patriotic citizens.

They are calling themselves the TEA Party, Palin is coming, it is the political movement. So the libertarians aren’t there? They have there own Party.
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Many people are calling themselves the TEA Party, it’s extremely decentralized. It’s fractured, divided, and, for the most part, disorganized.
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If you want to make political hay with the group to strengthen opposition to the Democrats, say so, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that the TEA Party is a grass roots movement of ordinary, patriotic citizens.
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Actually, to the contrary, I’ve been urging TEA Partiers to refrain from partisanship. I’ve advised those that I know to not make this a Republican front, and not to make enemies with the left. I’ve cautioned them against buying into the farce that the GOP can meet their desires. So, I don’t seek to “make political hay” with the TEA Partiers to embolden Democratic opposition. I sympathize with the sentiments of the TEA movement, but I am no member and I am no ally.

53,
Have you ever made a comment without bring up racism as part of it? Do you see everything through racist glasses? You seem to be caught up in some kind of “white guilt”.
My family is bi-racial, white, black and Hispanic. I’m proud of my all American family. I don’t need to use racism as a tool to further my political views. You need to get past this racism which seems to be what is driving you. It makes you sound like a racist.

Shepard,
Probably a poor choice of words on my part. Sorry. I guess I get rather frustrated with all the negative and hateful comments made by so many liberals on this site. I realize they are not all extremist.

Rusty,
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Thanks for your response on the thread, “Bring on the Tea.” I have posted some follow-up comments, if you are so inclined to read them.