Mainstream America?

Well, I’m going to wait to hear what Nate Silver thinks about this poll before buying into it altogether… but yeah, the Republican Party has no policy positions, just a series of personal and cultural resentments.

“I was on Bill O’Reilly’s program last night…”

Jesus, why would you do that to yourself?

“I was on Bill O’Reilly’s program last night…”

I hope you took a hot shower and scrubbed yourself with lye afterwards. Don’t touch decent folk for at least 48 hours either.

“…the Republican Party has no policy positions, just a series of personal and cultural resentments.”
.
Well, yeah, that plus the fact that they’re measurably insane. That’s the point.
.
They are not living on the same planet with the rest of us, yet they are treated as though their opinions and beliefs should be given equal consideration with those of the sane and lucid, particularly by the corporate press – and they even have their own corporate press to force the issue. It’s a problem.

Is this another attack on us Dodo’s Joe?

But I;d like to see how many non-Republican Americans believe these same tenets. I think we’d all be surprised at how many share these views.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

I say let the GOP prove the poll is inaccurate. I find the results entirely predictable.

I believe Rusty already declared ACORN to be the most corrupt organization since Sumerian technology permitted the recording of such things. Does anyone want to make the argument that Rusty’s views are atypical of GOP thinking?

BTW, I’d like to know what percentage of the GOP could define “socialist” remotely accurately.

I guess he just couldn’t resist the opportunity to display his intellectual superiority to the largst news audience on TV.

Stupid is as stupid does.
.
I love how publishing a poll of Republicans’ own views is considered an “attack.”

Before O’Really I never knew points talked.

Fox just proves that you can fool some of the people all of the time.

Why didn’t Smith ask if they thought Obama was the anti-Christ?

The results should be taken with a grain or two of salt. We don’t know the methodology of the poll,

Not exactly. dKos published the methodology and a complete list of the questions and responses.

Methodology
DKOS REPUBLICAN POLL 2010

The Daily Kos Republican Poll was conducted by Research 2000 from January 20 through January 31, 2010. A total of 2003 self identified Republicans were interviewed by telephone.

The margin for error, according to standards customarily used by statisticians, is no more than plus or minus 2% percentage points. This means that there is a 95 percent probability that the “true” figure would fall within that range if the entire self identified Republican population were sampled. The margin for error is higher for any demographic subgroup, such as for gender or region.
GEOGRAPHIC BREAKDOWN:

Northeast:
DC, ME, VT, NY, MD, PA, CT, DE, MA, NH, RI, WV, NJ

South:
FL, NC, SC, AL, MS, GA, VA, TN, KY, LA, AR, TX

Midwest:
IL, MN, MI, OH, WI, IA, MO, KS, IN, ND, SD, OK, NE

West:
NM, CA, OR, WA, AK, HI, MT, ID, UT, NV, AZ, WY, CO

The legacies of Lincoln and PT Barnum live on………

Careful Einstein, you’ll give yourself a headache.

If you’re going to sneer about how everyone else is supposedly smarter than you and the Faux News audience, you might try not misspelling “largest.”

Standing by to read vigorous defense of these personal and cultural resentments in 3…2…1…

Dam! Bustid bi the speleng poleece!

“guess he just couldn’t resist the opportunity to display his intellectual superiority to the largst news audience on TV.”
.
More BS here are the 4 day averages for the broadcast News. What was FOX’s about 2.25 million?
.
Your world is delusional.

Numbers for the week of Jan. 25:
NBC ABC CBS
• Total Viewers: 10,080,000 8,510,000 6,760,000

Pathetic. I was cracking up watching Joe try to put FOX down. This interview probably spiked ratings. Good job Joe. I’m sure the ratings mean nothing just like the polls you don’t put much thought into.

Maybe one day you will realize that the people matter. There is a reason we watch FOX. Have you thought about that?

JK:

I see you are attempting to nail your dream job as a reporter for the National Enquirer. But alas, you don’t even meet their standards. I find it amazing that you sit on a panel for Chrissy Matthews who has waved goodbye to rational thought a long time ago, but you bristle at at the attitude of FOX (who is cleaning the clocks of your liberal pals).
==

Maybe as a bit of journalistic exercise (I know a stretch for you) before you take another gratuitous slap at Republicans you could have inquired about the poll. Nah why act like a journalist when a cheap shot will do.
===
But let’s take the results at face as you seem to relish. 39% want to impeach Obama. 61% no or not sure. Going back there was a poll at MSNBC (mothership for liberal wing nuts) had 89% wanting to impeach Bush in 2006. American Research had 69% of Democrats wanting to impeach Bush. I suspect its about the war. But isn’t the Messiah carrying out many of the same policies, so why the big discrepancy? Or is the left just nuttier? I vote for that option.

==
63% think Obama is a Socialist.

Here is a flash– he is! Listen to any old interview with him and that is precisely what he advocates. Denials by the left don’t make it so. Even Newsweek cover “We are all Socialists Now” For once a brief glimmer of truth by the left. In fact Lech Walesa stated “Lech Walesa tells his American Audience that the United States no longer leads the world politically or morally. At least one person asks President Walesa if he thinks America is slipping toward Socialism. His Answer? Yes!”

My guess is he has a better view of that than either you or Daily Kos.

==
21% Think Acorn stole election

Not exactly an overwhelming view by any stretch. But given the large number of investigations over voter registration fraud and other improprieties in a number of states. This may be an under vote.

Here is another little piece of journalism you could try. Do some reporting on whether there was any improprieties by ACORN or maybe the whitewash and stalling on the Black Panther case by DOJ. But then you don’t seem to be a big advocate of the truth.

==
FInally 31% do not believe Obama was born in the US. This is one area where again the quick answer is to just denigrate the opposition and deride them as nutcases. This could have been settled quickly and easily by Obama by providing the long form of his birth certificate- He chose not too. And the press obliged him. This is not too different to Frenchy Kerry who promised to release the extended file of his service. I think we still await that release to clarify some charges by the members of his Swift Boat unit. The press took up that defense as well.

However, as recent as 2007, CBS was still running stories questioning Bush’s National Guard service. They were doing that despite the fact that one of their own (Dan “what’s the frequency Kenneth” Rather) used forged documents to try and prove a case against Bush. Funny how the left never tired of that pursuit.

===
The left continues to set new lows for journalism and news highs for stupidity

Conservatives are not people mel. Just ask any swampland blogger.

Joe, the only reason why you don’t know the methodology of the poll is that you haven’t looked at it… all you’ve read is Politico’s translation of it. Once again, Joe Klein takes the ignorant, lazy way out.

Kee-rist! Markos even posted crosstabs!

Are you high?
If you would link directly to the poll page at Kos you could see the methodology and cross tabs.
http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2010/1/31/US/437
Quit being so disingenuous.

Yep, if anything, the poll undercounts the amount of crazy in the GOP.

Yeah and there is also a reason a Democrat is President and the Democrats control both houses of Congress–because what “the people” thinks matters and decides who governs in this country. That’s Joe’s whole point–the type of people who watch Fox News think the only opinions that matter are those of people like them. The main focus of Fox News and its progeny is cultural victimhood. There is no evidence the election was stolen and no evidence Obama was born outside the country. Get over it.

Smith didn’t ask anything. You fail.

…The results should be taken with a grain or two of salt….

Why? Research 2000 is a reputable firm, with results as good as (if not slightly better than) other polling firms/news orgs.

We don’t know the methodology of the poll.

Yes, we do:

Methodology
DKOS REPUBLICAN POLL 2010

The Daily Kos Republican Poll was conducted by Research 2000 from January 20 through January 31, 2010. A total of 2003 self identified Republicans were interviewed by telephone.

The margin for error, according to standards customarily used by statisticians, is no more than plus or minus 2% percentage points. This means that there is a 95 percent probability that the “true” figure would fall within that range if the entire self identified Republican population were sampled. The margin for error is higher for any demographic subgroup, such as for gender or region.

..there clearly was an intent to show how extreme the Repubs have become…

Does this intent invalidate the poll results?

Ack. Too slow on my part.

It’s kinda like if you point out that Republicans (e.g. Paul Ryan) want to privatize Medicare and Social Security, they scream “bias” at being exposed.

There are several reasons to watch Fox:

1) Fascinated horror

2) Keeping tabs on what the secessionists and the fellow-kooks may be planning to inflict on decent Americans

3) The Comedy Channel doesn’t have as much rich craziness frothing up

4) Mental illness/true belief

Which door are you going to choose, Mel?

I looked at the poll and the only concern I had about methodology is that South seemed to me to be way over-sampled at 42% of the respondents. but then, the Republican Party is oversampled down here, too.

Freepie, before you post again, go to a library if you haven’t burned the local branch) and get out a dictionary (assuming you haven’t burned those too). Look up the word “socialism”, read the definition, comprehend the definition (you may need another dictionary to help with more complex words), and when you have finally grasped what ‘socialism” means, come back here and apologize for your years of ignorance.

Apparently many of us, from varying perspectives, agree it was a senseless exercise in egocentrism for JK to go on O’Reilly’s show.

Well, I guess finding common ground has to start somewhere.

This is true. But, with the events of the past few months and all the recent polls, it looks as though this is changing. People voted for change, or, the Independants voted for a change. Obviously, many of them have changed their minds and are looking for a way out or an alternative.

As an Independant, I feel the same. And, by the way, I will get over it. Just like I will continue to watch FOX and laugh my butt off when you liberals come on and make fools of yourselves. I LOVE IT!!

Screwed up the ‘Yes we do’ link, but everyone else seems to have posted it, so no worries.

Why do I watch FOX..

THE TRUTH

I guess he just couldn’t resist the opportunity to display his intellectual superiority to the largst news audience on TV.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Except that O’Reilly viewers couldn’t discern superior intellect from flagrant bull$h1t if their misinformed lives depended on it.

I don’t know. If you’d asked Democrats prior to 9/11 a similar set of questions, a plurality would have said he’s unfit to lead and a plurality would have said Harris stole the election. While some of the charges such as Obama being a socialist and Obama should be impeached are more extreme and the homosexual question is…..funky, I don’t think that this is really a marker of how nihilistic the Republicans have become

You’re right Jake. The dems do control both houses of congress, and have done so for the past 3 YEARS!!
.
A little fact the libs always leave out as they rant about the “8 years of Bush”

OK. Research 2000 sponsored by Daily Kos and reported by Ben Smith. Happy now or is there something else you’d like to nitpick about?

/facepalm

There really isn’t any other way to say it as succinctly: you’re an idiot.

pafro:

I guess that’s the beauty of being a Democrat- the count is easier — you are all nuts.

==

juniusredivivu:

a political theory advocating state ownership of industry (banks and auto industries, Fannie Freddie, Heath care)

an economic system based on state ownership of capital (TARP, Student loans)

Add to these takeover of energy and education and as NEWSWEEK, that noted conservative rag, you have socialism.

And of course your brilliance in the matter certainly outweighs Walesa who served as President of a country in an area suffocating by socialism.

Your best option is to stick to name calling which what you entire post was. Your stupidity knows no bounds.

“Standing by to read vigorous defense of these personal and cultural resentments in 3…2…1…”
.
Hey, everyone has some of those and lots of us have beliefs that can’t be proved one way or another – god, miracles, angels, etc. The problem with these people (high RWAs) is that they are completely impervious to logic, reason and fact, even when it presented to them right before their lying eyes. They reject empirical reality (Obama’s birth certificate, the actual definition of “socialism”, the truth about the cost of medical malpractice, etc.) in favor of comforting belief. Again, something that’s not uncommon in a different context, say flattering or unflattering beliefs about yourself or a spouse, but when applied to the observable world around you, that’s just plain insane.
.
As long as their leadership, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck, and O’Reilly (for now) tell them that the warming earth is cooling and corporatists are socialists, that’s what they will believe. Everyone should pray that social conditions don’t get much worse and that another sociopath doesn’t come forward to lead them. They will follow and believe and do whatever they are told.
.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Tough crowd sacred. You really have to watch your P’s and Q’s. The gotcha bunch’ll getcha.

hotbbq

“There really isn’t any other way to say it as succinctly: you’re an idiot.”

I see you called on all of your reasoning and intellectual power once again. Name calling beats thinking for you and certainly saves time.

Yeah, I know. I was sitting here trying not to laugh while I was typing. I’ve been having such a good time this past week that I’m almost expecting something bad to happen. Even my wife has been telling me that life isn’t as good as I think it is.

You aren’t worth the time. You are incapable of reason. If I thought there was any hope that logic could penetrate the colossal fabrication you call reality, I would give it my best shot. Unfortunately, as a mere mortal, I just don’t have the ability to perform such feats.

SheperdWrong:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/01/leaked-emails-climate-jones-chinese

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/01/dispute-weather-fraud

Everyday another fraud revealed. It must suck to find that your entire belief system is nothing but a fraud and a lie.

And sorry, repeating something over an dover doesn’t make it true, it makes you crazy. Seek help

Glad to hear it. No deer in your headlights lately huh?

hotbbq:

You are continually reduced to nothing but name calling. You have no intellectual thought process you you just fall back to old liberal tried and true methods: Denigration and dismissal of counter arguments. If you could work racism into this you could have a trifecta of liberal stupidity.

LOL. No deer in two weeks. We’re getting back way more than we thought on taxes so we’re looking at 2009′s now instead of 07-08′s. I sold my utility stock so we’re going to be able to pay cash instead of making payments.

Your world is delusional.

Ain’t it the truth? Naturally the cold hard truth of the numbers you posted (which quite clearly refute the bull$h1t) will look something like this to 2/3, freep, rusty, et cetra….blah, blah, blah, librul bias, blah, blah, blah.

meep, meep

Quick link (busy now, I’ll check back later):
.
“Dan Satterberg, the Republican prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., where the largest ACORN case to date was prosecuted, said that the indicted ACORN employees were shirking responsibility, not plotting election fraud.
.
Satterberg: [A] joint federal and state investigation has determined that this scheme was not intended to permit illegal voting.
.
Instead, the defendants cheated their employer, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (or ACORN), to get paid for work they did not actually perform. ACORN’s lax oversight of their own voter registration drive permitted this to happen…
.
It was hardly a sophisticated plan: The defendants simply realized that making up names was easier than actually canvassing the streets looking for unregistered voters…
.
[It] appears that the employees of ACORN were not performing the work that they were being paid for, and to some extent, ACORN is a victim of employee theft.
.
The $8-an-hour employees were charged with providing false information on voter registration forms, and in one case with making a false statement to a public official. Five of the seven who were charged pleaded guilty. ACORN was fined for exercising insufficient oversight, but it was not charged with masterminding any kind of deliberate fraud.”
.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/acorn_accusations.html

Congrats on that. Glad to hear your doing well. Snowed in here on Maryland’s eastern shore with a couple more inches expected tonight. Got fresh deer tracks 3 feet from my back steps this morning. The closest I’ve seen since I moved here.

The poll was about trust, not correct awareness of actual facts. Surprise, surprise that the least informed (misinformed) would display the greatest trust.

The real question is why anyone at this point would trust any tv news source. In that regard, the results just indicate that Fox viewers are the last to wake up.

Hotbarf, you really should stop drinking your bathwater.

JK, your over-the-top condemnation of Fox News and their dubious ratings data, while fully embracing the nonsense spewed by Daily Kos furthers your image of the ultimate Obama liberal sycophant.

I am a registered Republican, and for the record: 1) I do not rely on Fox as my sole source of information and news (I actually used to be a Time subscriber, but I got tired of your simpering cheerleading for BHO) 2) I don’t see where Obama has done anything impeachable, yet. 3) While he may not be a dictionary-definition socialist, Obama’s policies clearly favor nanny-state social programs. 4) Whether he was born in the United States or not, every way I read the Constitution and citizenship requirements, as the natural offspring of one US citizen, he IS a natural born US citizen, whether he was born in the US or not, and is thus eligible to be Presidnet of the United States. 5) ACORN engaged in questionable practices that deserve to be brought to light, just as accusations of election fraud were loudly and fully voiced during both GWB elections. 6) I don’t care who teaches my children, so long as they do not apply their own personal agenda (personal, political, religious) to their teaching…and if they do, they should be removed from their position, permanently.

I can say without equivocation that my many Republican friends would agree with nearly all of what I just stated. I don’t know where DK got their “true believers”, but, they need to do a better job of sampling. And you should try looking for knowledge from sources that don’t conform to your own biases once in awhile.

pintortwo:

“Dan Satterberg, the Republican prosecuting attorney in King County, Wash., where the largest ACORN case to date was prosecuted,”

Well that is one of how many? And it is an interesting turn of phrase “largest to date”. So does that mean the rest were tiny or a non-subtle way of saying the big cases are unfounded.

Also interesting that ACORN was found to exercise insufficient oversight. No fraud just more liberal waste.

==
hotbbq:

Yes you are quite the cartoon character. But I was thinking more along the line of nuck nuck nuch!

Low-hanging fruit, but it’s being scientifically proven as law.

Thanks for the link:
.

It is important to keep this in perspective, however. This dramatic revision of the estimated impact of urbanisation on temperatures in China does not change the global picture of temperature trends. There is plenty of evidence of global warming, not least from oceans far from urban influences. A review of recent studies published online in December by David Parker of the Met Office concludes that, even allowing for Jones’s new data, “global near-surface temperature trends have not been greatly affected by urban warming trends.”

.
But a very fine example of high-RWA irrational thinking on your part. A possible problem with some data negates all the science I don’t want to believe (Mommy!). You’re nuts.

Re: “This could have been settled quickly and easily by Obama by providing the long form of his birth certificate- He chose not too.”

He did not chose not to. He could not. He could not because he did not have the long-form. He asked Hawaii for his birth certificate in 2007, and Hawaii sent him what it sends to everyone, the new, official, short-form Certification of Live Birth.

Yes, his family had the original when he was a child. Yes, Obama said in his book that he saw the birth certificate when he was a child. But, in the course of many moves, his mother or he must have lost it. So, in 2007, he asked Hawaii for his birth certificate, and Hawaii send him the Certification.

Still the Certification is now the official birth certificate, and it is the only birth document that Hawaii sends out (It no longer sends out copies of the original), and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military, and the two top officials of the Department of Health of Hawaii (members of a Republican governor’s administration) have said twice that the facts on the Certification that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961 are confirmed by the facts on the original document in the files.

Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? First, because they may think that it is unnecessary; they don’t do it for anyone else, and they have said twice that Obama was born in Hawaii. Second, would it do any good? The birthers would claim that the original was forged too. Third, they are under a Republican governor, so why should they go further to put this issue to rest?

They have gone far enough, however. The official birth certificate and their confirmation are solid proof that Obama was born in Hawaii. There is not a shred of evidence or credible reports that he was born anywhere else. His Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. If you listen to the complete tape, you can hear her say “America, Hawaii” right after she was asked “Whereabouts was he born?”

Well it is hardly fair to compare a professionally-executed national poll of 2000 respondents to your anecdotal reporting on the views yourself and your friends.

SherperdWrong:

Amazing how you take one point and become the master of trend line analysis. Other studies will come under fire as “peer review” has taken on the meaning of Global warming cheerleader as was the case for the UN work.

Keep trying I know its hard to grasp when your belief system turns to crap.

square1-

Do you seriously believe the samples were not hand-picked to skew the data? The results do not represent the opinions of anyone I know, and that includes many elected Republicans. I refuse to believe the people I cite are out of the Republican mainstream…the poll respondents surely are.

“Other studies will come under fire as “peer review” has taken on the meaning of Global warming cheerleader as was the case for the UN work.”
.
Thanks again. As we’ve discussed before, not being able to recognize how crazy you sound is the best proof of how crazy you are. Keep ‘em coming.

[...] Joe Klein at Swampland at Time: The results should be taken with a grain or two of salt. We don’t know the methodology of the poll, although there clearly was an intent to show how extreme the Repubs have become. [...]

“I refuse to believe the people I cite are out of the Republican mainstream…”
.
I don’t blame you. I’d hate to think that many or most of the people who held the same political beliefs as me were completely out of touch with observable reality but, if the random sample fits…

Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama’s birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – Hawaii’s Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate’s birth certificate under seal and instructed the state’s Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

The certificate from Obama’s campaign website is an electronic copy which Hawaii does not issue and it does not have an embossed seal nor date of issue of this copy.

Can’t imagine why people still might be suspect can you?

ShepherdWrong

You keep issuing the same denials. Now the very studies that the idiotic left paraded around as peer reviewed are false. you accuse everyone else of being crazy.

Not to mention they broke the law when the original data was dumped. What above board scientist EVER discards his/her original data — unless you have something to hide.

Maybe the data was washed away when the glaciers in the Himalayas melted- oh that’s right they didn’t.

So…
.
a) Two thousand-odd randomly-selected, self-identified Republicans answer a survey asking questions based on well-known right-wing talking points and their answers makes the GOP look like it’s filled with loonies, and
.
b) You’re a Republican and you would have answered at least some of the questions differently/more sanely. You resent being lumped in with the loonies, so
.
c) You doubt the veracity of the polling, even though it’s being done by a reputable company asking questions that are based on statements you’d hear on media outlets like FNC or Limbaugh’s show, instead of
.
d) Wondering how your party slipped so far down into the rabbit hole.
.
That about right?

“…you accuse everyone else of being crazy.”
.
Oh nos! Just to be clear, I’m just accusing you and your fellow right-wing authoritarian-following, FOX-believing, Republican-voting knuckle-draggers of being crazy. That’s just a fact. Now you can look it up:
.
http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2010/1/31/US/437

grape_crush-

By whose standard is the polling company reputable? How were the questions posed? What was the exact wording of the questions? How was the sample arrived at? You say “random”, but that isn’t defined. Ever heard of push-polling? It’s done all the time when certain people/groups with an agenda (not Daily Kos, though, right?) want to make hay out of an “independent survey” (and yes, both parties do it).

Why don’t you go read it for yourself. Are you too lazy or just so uneducated you can’t understand the methodology when you read it (and it’s not really that hard to understand). You do realize that with nearly every comment, you prove exactly why “conservatives” have a reality problem.
.
http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2010/1/31/US/437

Daily Kos? What the 3 Stooges were unavailable.And you wan to talk crazy.

Beck, Limbaugh are Mother Teresa compared to Kos
==
But here is another “peer reviewed” study the looney left claimed as gospel..

The IPCC’s latest scientific transgression consists in basing assertions about ice disappearing from the earth’s mountain tops on a dissertation written by a geography student studying for the equivalent of a master’s degree at the University of Berne.

The IPCC accepted the student’s claims of ice loss, derived from interviews with mountain guides in the Alps, even though other scientists point out, one, there is no long-term data regarding ice from ice climbs and, two, the latter do not accurately show ice reduction because climbers knock down (reduce) ice as they climb with their axes and other paraphernalia.

===
The left takes crazy to a level the right can’t even begin to attain. Hall of fame stuff.

Fox cultists find it hard to understand that they play to a niche audience. The rest of the people who watch news (otherwise known as normal) use many new’s sources. On a given day I may watch CNN, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, PBS. The ratings numbers are disbursed. I may access news on the internet, read magazines, a book on current issues. I have tried to watch Fox but, other than Shepherd Smith, I can’t stand the charade of “fair and balanced” played out each day.
Since so many that watch Fox believe that every other source of news but the conservative press is “liberul” and the enemy, they will continue to absorb the red meat handed them everyday.

Judge for yourself. Here’s some links that you prolly won’t read:
.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/pollster_accuracy_and_the_nati.php
http://www.research2000.us/category/testimonials/
.
http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2010/1/31/US/437
.
The first identifies pollster accuracy while the second links to testimonials on the Research 2000 site. The third has the questions asked. The research methodology has been posted earlier in this thread.
.
It’s done all the time when certain people/groups with an agenda…
.
You can go read the questions that were asked to those self-identified Repubs. They weren’t push-polled.
.
Let me know when you finally move from c) to d).

You really aren’t very intelligent are you? The questions are listed at the Kos polling page.
Klein won’t link there because Kos has made fun of Klein for his attempts to stab ethics in the face, like when he let crazy Pete Hoekstra ghost write one of his columns.

sacred: Let’s hope he at least used a loofah.

“you prove exactly why “conservatives” have a reality problem.”

The reality problem conservatives have is when they assume you can deal rationally with liberals. The reality they need to have is that liberals are five star kooks. And every demented post here shows it.

==

Every article of faith that liberals believe to be truth are nothing but lies whitewashed with campaign promises. And every one is heading down the port o’potty of ideas.

sheperdwong-

Actually, I have read it myself. And I doubt you will ever admit to anyone being intellectually superior to yourself, so I won’t bother spending too much time pointing out what a pompous, overbearing jerk you are.

If you take the “Not Sure” results and add them to the “No” answers, ACORN question, the results seem quite reasonable to me.

There is no wiggle room in the “socialist” question, so one who thought, as I do, that Obama isn’t really a doctrinaire socialist but is severly left-wing might take the easy way out.

I notice the several questions that tried to hew to the popular view of Republicans as knuckle-dragging religious fanatics (banning contraceptives, men as heads of households, etc.) escaped any mention by JK.

There are some results that I do find disheartening, but I still question methodology of sampling. With as small a sample as 2000, if 400 calls were confined to one geographic area that was recognized to be deep red, it could skew the results. There is no breakdown of numbers state by state or region by region.

None of this will matter to you, of course, because in your tolerant, liberal way, you will just dismiss it as the rantings of a lesser life form.

I wonder how many people have lost their birth certificates and have had to rely on their states documentation? Are they all questionable citizens because they don’t have the original?

If you read the questions yourself, why did you lie about reading them and ask a bunch of concern troll questions about push-polling and whatnot?

Joe: Because KOS is a liberal site you just had to qualify your acceptance of the poll. KOS used Research 2000 during the run up to the 2008 campaigns. Their results were highly respected. No need for you to be apologetic about its source. Next time you want to be interviewed pick KOS. You would be welcome on the site. There would be tough questions but you could handle it.
Avoid the egomaniacs like O’Reilly.

Speaking of crazy poll numbers, didn’t a sizable amount of Democrats/liberals think that the government was in on 9/11, or something? Just saying, there’s plenty of crazies on both sides.
.
Also, I’ll repeat for the 1000th time: if you dislike and trash Fox for being biased, and watch MSNBC, you are either a conscious hypocrite or in denial.

Well that is one of how many?
.
ACORN has never been found guilty of voter fraud (never indicted). The better question is: why is FOX so concerned with them? -to the point that individuals go to jail and receive fines for cheating on their $8/hr job?
.
Let me add that I feel no desire to defend ACORN. They should be subject to the same scrutiny as any company that receives Federal money. The pimp video makes them look very corrupt and, if accurate, they should be de-funded or at least fined. But only after a fair review. As far as I know, that didn’t happen.
.
I link to the ACORN factcheck because it highlights how dishonest and miss-informative the FOX campaign is. FOX is not a traditional news outlet, they are a political advocacy group- they should be promoted as such.

“And I doubt you will ever admit to anyone being intellectually superior to yourself…”
.
Again, we are talking about you and your ilk, who believe all sorts of silly things, even when presented with the verifiable facts, don’t have a clue how actual facts are determined – 2,000 is, in fact, a very respectable sample size (hence the very small 2% error rate) – and are so out-of-touch with reality that you don’t even recognize how clueless you sound. Lots of people are intellectually superior to me, but you and your lot just aren’t on the same planet.

Freeper,
.
For climate change to be fake, either the greenhouse effect doesn’t exist, or CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. You have to pick one. The problem is, if you pick either of those, you’re wrong.
.
Also, you can’t point to errors in the IPCC report or errors in SST records and say that undermines the entire premise of climate change. How is that logical?

“Daily Kos? What the 3 Stooges were unavailable.And you wan to talk crazy.”

Oh, right, crazy Markos forced all those Republicans to admit to all sorts of insane beliefs to an independent pollster. If only he wasn’t so crazy, they might have sounded more sane. I figure you just got your feelings hurt ‘cus he left out the question that would have outing your fellow Global Warming denialist nutjobs. Right wing crazy loves company, I guess.

sheperwong-
.
2000 is a “respectable sample size” when 42% are confined to the Bible Belt? Gosh, sure not trying to skew the data there are we? What rubbish. I’ve been involved in polling of 350 people in a town of 80,000 and the error rate was more than 2%.
.
Pollsters (like anyone dealing in statistical data) can make the numbers represent whatever they (and their benefactors) want.
.
Oh, and stop using “ilk”, please. That has to be one of the most overused words by left and right wingers alike, and it merely points out (like swearing and calling people with whom you disagree “stupid”) your lack of imagination and vocabulary.

Can’t imagine why people still might be suspect can you
-
Actually, I can. It involves paranoia, racism,, willing ignorance, or a combination thereof.

I can’t speak for anyone else, or even Ds, but my impression is that the truthers were a small but loud minority held at arms length by most Ds in congress. Not rejected, as they should have been, but hardly endorsed either.

Polls were all over the place, depending on how the questions were asked but something like 20-30% of Americans believed that it was either done by or ignored by the government, over-represented by self-identified Democrats and libertarians.
.
And for the 1000th time, please stop equating FOX’s “bias” with anyone else’s. MSNBC isn’t a fully-funtioning branch of the liberal/progressive movement, even if such a thing actually existed.

“2000 is a “respectable sample size” when 42% are confined to the Bible Belt…”
.
Yes. And in Additional Easy Answers to Stupid Questions, if you want to catch any fish, it’s best to start at the pond.

…ilks of a feather and all.

grape-crush-
.

“Let me know when you finally move from c) to d).” OK. Read the info on the links. What is your point? The accuracy of the data in an election where the question is simply, “Who are you voting for?”, asked on a true national basis, is hardly surprising. The accuracy of a poll that selectively weights its sample to skew in a particular direction is something else, entirely.
.
Oh, and thank you, Joe for giving us that little tidbit about 42% of the polling being done in the South. I know it probably pained you to do it, but I appreciate the intellectual honesty.

My opinion is undoubtedly biased as I would be classified as a truther (I do not enjoy this association because I find too many of them to be nutjobs even though I do feel that a lot of their evidence is sound), but my experience was that it was significantly more than a small group. The elected Dems did put a tad more effort in not associating with truthers, but in the cases of both parties, the number elected officials that actually actively involved themselves were few. It is a fair comparison.

nathan7777

“Also, you can’t point to errors in the IPCC report or errors in SST records and say that undermines the entire premise of climate change. How is that logical?”

Yeah fudging temperature data so it appears that the temperatures are higher than past years or removing colder weather data points so average temperatures are higher have nothing to do with Global warming. Glaciers not melting because of global warming. Your right how logical could that be

==
Its a shame you will be nothing more than a burden on society along with SheperdWrong.

ShepherdWrong

“Lots of people are intellectually superior to me, but you and your lot just aren’t on the same planet.”

I have material stuck in the tread of my car tires that is intellectually superior to you. Your continual self appraised testimony to your brilliance not withstanding, it is doubtful you are superior to most conservative keyboards from which they type in an inane attempt to reason with you.

I love liberals that agree with a source or polls acknowledge that it is a respected source and those that don’t liars and scoundrels

Great being judge and jury.

“Your continual self appraised testimony to your brilliance not withstanding…”
.
Well, thanks but I’m only claiming to be comparatively sane, which is far from anything resembling brilliance. But it’s actually good news that you see mere sanity as brilliance, since most real loonies see their own particular brand of crazy as somewhere between normal and brilliant. Glad you have something to shoot for, one way or the other.

pintortwo:

The indictment includes 13 counts each against Acorn and its former Las Vegas field director, Christopher Edwards, who is accused of creating an incentive program called “blackjack” because $5 was paid for signing more than 21 prospective voters.

Also indicted was Acorn’s former deputy regional director, Amy Busefink, on 13 counts of principle to the crime of compensation for registration of voters. Each charge carries a potential one- to four-year prison term and a $5,000 fine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/us/05acorn.html

==
I would argue paying voters to register is voter fraud.

SheperdWrong

Once again you overstate your case. You waved bye-bye to sanity, brilliance and even teeming mediocrity a long time ago

The accuracy of a poll that selectively weights its sample to skew in a particular direction is something else, entirely.
.
Nope, sorry. You have to prove that the polling was selectively weighted, and you don’t have anything. Even this:
.
..that little tidbit about 42% of the polling being done in the South.
.
only shows that there is a higher concentration of self-identified Repubs in the South…and unless you are saying that those southern GOPers are crazier than those from other regions, any accusation of weighting the results is pure bunk…
.
Are you stating that Southern Repubs are a few bricks shy of a full load, random?
.
You can contort yourself as much as you want, but you’re ignoring the simplest, most logical conclusion: many of your fellow Repubs have gone plum loco.

randomkirk, Good post
I am also a registered Republican and share you and your friend beliefs. All the Liberal/Progressives posting to this site spend most of their time demonizing Conservatives and Republicans. They call names and make idiotic comments seldom with any real facts. They take sound bits and statements out of context and then use their bogus data to express their hate.
As a Republican, I would put my personal actions to help poor people in the U.S. and around the world, up against any of them any day and win by a mile. But they would still demonize me.
They talk a lot and say nothing. They are a bunch of hypocrites who don’t have any understanding of what our nation stands for. They are either ignorant or haters or both.
I too have cancelled my subscription to Time. Reporters such as Joe Klein are biased and dishonest and should not be called reporters.

grape_crush-
.
First, we would have to identify “the South”. Second, the mere fact that the sample was skewed to 42 % in “the South” necessarily means that only 58% of weight was given to the rest of the country. Even though California is decidedly blue, there are over 5.3 million registered Republicans in the state. That number alone probably represents nearly 10% of all registered Repubs.
.
As for contorting, you are the one contorting if you do not see, given regional differences it is entirely possible Republicans from other regions would very likely skew the results, if properly counted.
.
Thanks for not being as insufferable as some of your cohorts on this blog.

Do you mean that, as a “progressive”, you have much clearer insight into what makes a socialist? What are you trying to say? We all get that you are closer to that ideology.

“if you want to catch any fish, it’s best to start at the pond.”

So in your pathetic attempt to be witty and relevant you are actually saying the poll was stacked.

“only shows that there is a higher concentration of self-identified Repubs in the South”

It shows no such thing! By the poll using a 42% sampling in the South, the only conclusion you can draw is that the poll took 42% of its sampling in the South. There is no confirmation or accompanying data to suggest that 42% of the registered Republican voters are in the South or what even defines the South.

Any other conclusions is your intepreting a result that you want. Making you as a reader of the Daily Kos, a FOX watcher wannabe without the class or intelligence.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/03/each_party_has_its_fanatics_97748.html
.
I’ll concede that Rasmussen typically gives conservative causes a bump, but when he does it’s usually in a 5-9 point range, so if you subtract that from what he found (39%), that’s about the same as the amount of Republicans that believed Obama wasn’t born in the US, as the Daily Kos poll found.
.
I also remember Howard Dean said that the theory that 9/11 was in an inside job was in “interesting theory” in 2003, and said he wasn’t sure what was true.

Frankly, I think that believing that the government intentionally committed/allowed the worst terrorist attack in history to occur (3000 dead), moreover that no one has figured out how (since there is no evidence of it) is worse than the also crazy belief that the president was not born in America and got elected despite this technicality (and that no one could prove it, since there was no evidence).
.
And Shepherd, watch MSNBC’s prime time and tell me it’s not blatantly biased, if you can do so without laughing. Come on, there is no such thing as unbiased cable news.

Hmm what I meant in the middle paragraph above is that it’s crazy to believe that either of these conspiracy theories are true partly because if either were true inevitably the truth would come out, with the press and everything. I mean we are talking about the government couldn’t keep sex in the oval office a secret. How would they keep a 9/11 or birther-caliber conspiracy under wraps?

Clarification, miss-posted at 30 (sigh)

randomkirk,

Isn’t it amazing that when surveys shows results that agree with L/P views they will stand behind it and will argue about its accuracy. But when a survey show FOX News as the most trusted of all News Channels and news programs they will argue that the survey is not accurate or that it doesn’t mean anything.
It’s interesting that 30% of Democrats and 41% of independents saw FOX as accurate.
I’m sure the L/P will have a hard time spinning why so many Democrats and independent see FOX as accurate.
As usual they will call names and state garbage they read on some far left website and demonize FOX even though they have never watched FOX on a regular basis and have no direct knowledge about FOX.
They would rather use inaccurate information and lies because that’s what they use most of the time.
Real facts are so inconvenient for L/Ps.

the *same* government *that” couldn’t
.
Whew, need to cut back on that drinking and typing.

First, we would have to identify “the South”.
.
Which was done, which you would know if you actually had read the polling methodology posted both here and at the DKos site.
.
…the mere fact that the sample was skewed to 42 % in “the South” necessarily means that only 58% of weight was given to the rest of the country…there are over 5.3 million registered Republicans in the state…that number alone probably represents nearly 10% of all registered Repubs.
.
But the number of Repubs as a percentage of total number of registered voters is lower in California, approximately 31% (5.3 of 17.2 total). Florida has approximately 10.2 million registered voters, of which ~4 million are Republicans…somewhere around 40%. If I call 100 numbers in California, I get 30 Republicans. Calling 100 numbers in Florida gets me 40. The sample skews naturally because of the higher percentage of Repubs present in certain states, not because someone chose to oversample. You’re going to hit more self-identified Republicans in states with a higher percentage of Republicans living there.
.
I realize that challenging the survey’s results is more comfortable than admitting that many of your fellow Republicans have went off the deep end, but it’s the easier conclusion to make.

ohiolib:

Thanks for playing. With no true rational argument you and most liberals fall right back to your comfort zone:
Name calling and playing the race card.

Predictable–Pathetic but predictable.

OK. You got me on that one, although I was speaking rhetorically. That seems to be an effective means of getting YOU to read the poll.
.
Now, if you believe 42% of Republicans live there, and only 58% in the rest of the country, I can’t change your mind without the registration data from all states, and I frankly don’t want to waste my energy. Suffice it to say, there are large concentrations of Republicans in the North and Northeast, as well as the West, and I still don’t think the poll accurately represents the broader party. What it does represent is the collective opinion of Daily Kos and its readership.
.
There is absolutely no motivation for DK to pay for or post a poll that doesn’t support their belief that the Republican Party is nothing but a bunch of wackos. You know…”American Taliban” and all that? So, of course, their specifications for the poll methodology are going to ensure that. Sort of like a Fox News poll showing them as “most accurate, trusted, etc.”.

Don’t even think about it. Typing while intoxicated is protected under the free slurred speech thingy in the constitution. If need be, attach a seat belt to your computer chair and type away. Some things are worth fighting for.

Strangely enough…I understood what you were saying perfectly and didn’t need the correction.

Free, as your link notes:
.
“This is not a case of voter fraud, it’s a case of voter registration fraud,” (Secretary of State Ross) Miller said. “I’m very confident that none of these fraudulent voter forms found their way into the voter registration rolls or to cast votes.”
.
The link illustrates my point. The distinction between an individual’s fraudulent acts (submitting fictitious forms to ACORN, incentivizing the collection of forms) and the act of voter fraud (attempting to register fictitious voters in an attempt to have ineligible people vote) is deliberately blurred- most prominently by FOX.
.
Companies that register new voters are required by law to submit all forms- even obvious fakes. ACORN calls all the new applicants and any suspicious registrants are flagged. In my link you can read about the methodology used by ACORN to insure all fictitious forms are noted to the States.
.
ACORN has never been indicted for voter fraud. Voter registration fraud is common to all groups that register new voters. This is why the municipalities are responsible for ensuring proper registration and identifying voters. FOX’s campaign against ACORN uses misinformation and thinly-veiled racism to excite Republican voters.

Now, if you believe 42% of Republicans live there, and only 58% in the rest of the country..
.
Wrong. What I said was that there are states (and a region, the South) that contain a higher concentration of GOPers than elsewhere. Unlike you, I did pull up some registration data from various states.
.
Suffice it to say, there are large concentrations of Republicans in the North and Northeast, as well as the West
.
Nope. Barely one-quarter of registered voters in New York are Republican. Massachusettes and Rhode Island are around 12 percent. California is 31 percent. Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah have higher percentages of Repubs, but lower populations, so a random call is less likely to be a number for someone in Wyoming than in, say, New York.
.
and I still don’t think the poll accurately represents the broader party.
.
Denying the poll results because they make you uncomfortable doesn’t mean that the poll is invalid. Sticking your head in the sand doesn’t make the problem go away.
.
What it does represent is the collective opinion of Daily Kos and its readership.
.
Nope. DKos and its readership were not the ones surveyed. The respondents were self-identified Republicans answering questions based on common Republican talking points.
.
There is absolutely no motivation for DK to pay for or post a poll that doesn’t support their belief…
.
DKos had no way of knowing what the results were going to be until the survey was completed. They would have to pay Research 2000 regardless of what the results were.
.
…their specifications for the poll methodology are going to ensure that.
.
Can you prove that? I mean, I know it’s easier to make that assumption than to accept the poll results as being valid, but unless you can prove that the poll was intentionally skewed towards giving a certain result, you have nothing that supports your opinion.

pintortwo:

“ACORN has never been indicted for voter fraud. Voter registration fraud is common to all groups that register new voters.”

And the Unions and ACORN have made it an Olympic sport and repeat gold medal winners.

And despite all the states with pending charges their is a complete lack of interest by the DOJ.

“The sample skews naturally because of the higher percentage of Repubs present in certain states, not because someone chose to oversample. You’re going to hit more self-identified Republicans in states with a higher percentage of Republicans living there.”

naturally skewed and statistics is an oxymoron. BY using 42% of the participants from an area suggests that 42% of all Republicans are in that geographic area and not of the total voters since the sample only included republicans.

Using your example, CA has only 31% Republican while FL has 40%. But if you are sampling CA & FL for Republicans 57% of them are in CA. So if in Republican poll you called 100 Republicans 57% would be from CA as oppesed to 31% would could substantially change the outcome and would certainly expand the margin of error.

==

And if you believe that anyone cannot set up a poll to obtain a conclusion they already have you are either a fool, a liar or an idiot.

I don’t understand why people on the right here are trying to run away from this poll. It contains positions that are posted here every day by them.

Re: “Hawaii’s Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate’s birth certificate under seal and instructed the state’s Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.”

Hawaii’s Republican governor, Linda Lingle, did NOT place the birth certificate under seal. It is simply a private document, treated like all the other private birth certificates in the birth certificate files.

However, Obama himself has posted the Certification of Live Birth that was sent to him in 2007, and this is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the two officials who head the Department of Health and Dept. of Vital Records of Hawaii have said twice that the facts of Obama’s birth in Hawaii in 1961 are confirmed by the original document in the files.

Re: “The certificate from Obama’s campaign website is an electronic copy which Hawaii does not issue and it does not have an embossed seal nor date of issue of this copy.

The Certification on Obama’s Web site is, of course, an image. What else could it be to be on a Web site. However, it is an image of an actual printed document that was sent to Obama in 2007, and the Obama campaign showed the physical copy to both FactCheck and Politifact. The seal and date of issue are on the back of the physical copy, as shown clearly by the FactCheck pictures (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html).

32

You said: “Hawaii’s Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate’s birth certificate under seal and instructed the state’s Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.”

Hawaii’s Republican governor, Linda Lingle, did NOT place the birth certificate under seal. It is simply a private document, treated like all the other private birth certificates in the birth certificate files.

However, Obama himself has posted the Certification of Live Birth that was sent to him in 2007, and this is now the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the two officials who head the Department of Health and Dept. of Vital Records of Hawaii have said twice that the facts of Obama’s birth in Hawaii in 1961 are confirmed by the original document in the files.

You said: “The certificate from Obama’s campaign website is an electronic copy which Hawaii does not issue and it does not have an embossed seal nor date of issue of this copy.

The Certification on Obama’s Web site is, of course, an image. What else could it be to be on a Web site? However, it is an image of an actual printed document that was sent to Obama in 2007, and the Obama campaign showed the physical copy to both FactCheck and Politifact. The seal and date of issue are on the back of the physical copy, as shown clearly by the FactCheck pictures (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html).

their is a complete lack of interest by the DOJ.
.
Thank you for suggesting that the DOJ aggressively pursue prosecution in order to protect ACORN from being cheated out of $8 per hour per case (as the thread, Judge Satterburg and NV Secretary of State Ross Miller clearly indicate). Your concern for ACORN is commendable, but unnecessary. As long as you see that this is not a voter issue, I’m happy.

grape
randomkirk,

Isn’t it amazing that when surveys shows results that agree with L/P views they will stand behind it and will argue about its accuracy. But when a survey show FOX News as the most trusted of all News Channels and News Programs they will argue that the survey is not accurate or that it doesn’t mean anything.
It’s interesting that 30% of Democrats and 41% of independents saw FOX as accurate.
I’m sure the L/P will have a hard time spinning why so many Democrats and Independent see FOX as accurate.
As usual they will call names and state garbage they read on some far left website and demonize FOX even though they have never watched FOX on a regular basis and have no direct knowledge about FOX.
They would rather use inaccurate information and lies because that’s what they use most of the time.
Real facts are so inconvenient for L/Ps.

“It’s interesting that 30% of Democrats and 41% of independents saw FOX as accurate.
I’m sure the L/P will have a hard time spinning why so many Democrats and Independent see FOX as accurate.”
..
It would seem that these are some of the Americans that JK previously noted for their stupidity………..

diecash1,
I see you still have an IQ of 0. Have you ever tried to make an intelligent comment or is that beyond youre pay grade?

haha sacred, were you drunk too when you read it? Maybe we had a drunk connection!

Puh-leeze…….how any thinking person can think “faux” news is a reliable or trusted source is beyond me. I’m just enjoying all of you wingers recoiling at the results of that survey of self-identified Repubs and the seriously high level of crazy that was demonstrated in it. Nice to see some things never change; wingers always hurling insults……