More on the Budget Freeze

“We never forget who we’re working for.” –Lockheed Martin commercial

Please Joe Klein, write about the things you know about best.
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You know, “stupid, dumb, ill-informed Americans!”
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Then perhaps we shall listen to any of the other garbage you write about.

Amazing how many campaign promises our President has reneged on, isn’t it?
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The “new politics” he talked about looks and smells a lot like the old to me.

You can’t leave the Defense Department in the untouchable category. We spend way too much buying stuff for wars we will never fight to keep the Congressional Stimulus package (defense plants in their districts working). We buy a fighter the Pentagon doesn’t want and for which 535 dunderheads felt they knew more than the peole who are paid to defend the country.

How about a requirement that all money spent for Defense procurement must be spent within the 50 states? Now that is a Stimulus package.

We could leave special forces in Afghanistan to capture OBL and bring everyone else home. Ditto for all remaining in Iraq. That’ll save some bucks.
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Before there are rants here about Obama the Evil Democrat’s political motives behind the freeze, I’d ask those (who are old enough) who remember Nixon’s wage and price controls how they worked out. Okay, Joe, that includes you, sorry, but at least you’d remember much better how the price freezes worked (I was too young). I understand age sensitivity; I once praised KT for being young and got my ass chewed out by another commenter. But did Nixon’s idea work as a temp fix or did the market bite back? Yes there was a ’73-74 market crash, but was that more from the Arab oil embargo?

http://www.econreview.com/events/wageprice1971b.htm
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You have hit on a good point, deconstructiva. The point being, like mother nature, when you attempt to influence our free market economy, other bad things happen.
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As you can see from the chart in the above link, we not only saw inflation which went out of control, TWICE in 10 years, but we also were handed the highest interest rates ever recorded.
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This is what happens when you try to mess around with market basics. Bernanke and Geitner are about ready to learn this hard lesson as well. As they are currently touted to have “saved us from total destruction”, we shall see the economy take a nose dive that will make the Great Depression look like a little blip on the scale.

Decon–

The appropriate analogy isn’t Nixon’s wage-price freeze, but George H.W. Bush’s discretionary freeze, which was reluctantly adopted by Bill Clinton.

A wage-price freeze is an anti-inflationary device applied to the entire economy; Nixon’s didn’t work. A freeze on discretionary budget spending is an anti-deficit device that is only applied to the federal budget. Apples and freight trains.

The “new politics” he talked about looks and smells a lot like the old to me.
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And the new ideas, proposals and “principled” opposition put forth by the Republican Party look and smell like the old to me, too.
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Can’t say he hasn’t tried to reach out, sometimes to a fault, but he did try.
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Now, refresh my memory, how many times has the opposition blocked a vote on his proposals without coming up with any substantial ideas of their own (beyond capital gains tax cuts and “uninhibited free markets”, that is)?
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However, we do actually need to start acting like the moral beacon we present to the rest of the world or cut the moral/ethical posturing and lecturing. The gap between what we say to everyone else and what we do on the national level is getting ridiculous.

Thanks so much for responding to commentary, Joe Klein, it is always appreciated.

The point being, like mother nature, when you attempt to influence our free market economy, other bad things happen.
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Oh, yes, our free market economy is exactly like mother nature. We’ve had two instances within the past century where unbridled greed coupled with an unregulated free market have almost brought the world economy to its knees and your response is to act as if the collapses didn’t happen and to repeat the mistakes all over again.
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What’s that they say about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
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Talk about blind religious fervor… If your religion keeps failing in the same way repeatedly, you probably need to fix your religion or find another one that works.

Yes, I know exactly what you are attempting to say afguy. Just like Obama said last night, “the stimulus saved or created over 2 million jobs”. Yea, right.
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Please talk about something you may actually know something about in the future, it does “stimulate” something.

Let me explain to you about a “Law of Nature”.
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We can launch a probe to other planets and the physics is exactly the same there. We know that gravity will affect it near Jupiter or Saturn in exactly the same predictable ways as here – there is NO “Jupiter constant” or “Saturn constant” you need to factor in to get the math to work.
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Natural laws don’t need anyone to monitor them to make them work right. It’s pretty well accepted now that the free market won’t withstand the greed and inside manipulation we have seen without someone to monitor for excesses. Even Alan Greenspan admitted to that – and he’s a high priest of that religion of yours.
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Other than the Almighty, I doubt that there’s anyone off of this dinky little planet (if they exist) who has heard of the “free market”. They would wonder about a philosophy that suborns the concept of pubic good to the greed and power of a few.
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And, if you are otherwise religious in any way, you wouldn’t like what the Almighty has had to say about greed and moneychangers.

Thank you Joe, excellent article by Kaplan.

Also, afguy. Obama spoke about all the money that has been given back to the treasury since the bank bailouts. What he failed to also acknowledge for the American people is the “toxic” assests which the Fed also consumed are still on the books. They are still out there looming large, and growing even bigger.
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When we can no longer borrow any more money from the Chinese to buy up our treasury bills, you shall see another collaspe. This has been appropriately timed to occur after 2012. After a possible Obama 2nd term has started.
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Sooner or perhaps later, the market will extract it’s pound of flesh. You can only hold back the inevitable for so long.
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The first to go will be the value of our dollar. Next the chinese will stop buying up our debt. Then it all comes crashing down around their ears. What was postponed, will be paid for and I predict many times more than had it been allowed to occur “naturally”.
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The only thing which may help stop the gushing of blood will be not a little “freeze” on spending, but a full on retraction of many programs and a 20 to 30 % reduction in spending. We must get to the point that we are taking in more than we are spending.
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Obama’s smoke and mirror show last night, which he did not explain since taking office he increased all Federal budgets from 12 to 35%, yearly. An increase in the debt of over 1.3 Trillion dollars from previous Bush II yearly budgets. Historically the largest yearly debt we have seen since World War II. Again, he attempted to shift the blame to Bush II. But he failed to reveal his own increases in spending. Now he is doing the “noble” thing and “freezing” spending at the current out of control levels. It is insanity, nothing short of insanity.
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People like Joe Klein even recognize it, and are also calling for spending cuts to Defense. While they will not admit to Obama’s spending spree, they do recognize where it all leads. Total collaspe.
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When we can no longer borrow any more money from the Chinese to buy up our treasury bills, you shall see another collaspe.
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Question: WHY do the Chinese have so much of our dept? Is this an example of our selling someone the rope with which to hang us? Seems to me that’s another weakness in the system, that you would sell the key to your future prosperity and security to someone who would benefit the most from your downfall and be well-situated to exploit it.
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This has been appropriately timed to occur after 2012. After a possible Obama 2nd term has started.
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Obama’s got an arrangement with the Chinese to cut off our credit after the election?? Who knew…

I’ll bet if the Chinese try to cash in our debt the market will get its pound of flesh back from them too – flooding the market with sell orders will make them settle for way less, for openers. They haven’t yet had their big asset bubble crash / recession like ours and Europe’s. They’re still trying to grow production rapidly to keep people working (to keep them from rioting?) and I’m betting inventories are piling up. Most of the world is still fighting recession and Wal-Mart will only buy so much from them without hurting its balance sheet …and if another country can sell WMT cheaper stuff then China is toast, bye bye.

@afguy: I like your Law of Gravity analogy and would take it a bit further…
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How would you rather get to the base of a tall bridge? Jump off? Or, jump using a parasail, with a better chance of arriving at the bottom in one piece?
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Unregulated gravity or regulated gravity?
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You’re not breaking any of Nature’s Laws in either case, just increasing your chances of survival…
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arttraveler,
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I’ve started to think of the defense industry/budget/foreign military aid as one gigantic jobs program/stimulus package.
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I think that’s one of the dirty little secrets in Washington – how much of our very society and economy that would collapse without massive military spending. Israel needs the Palestinians as an enemy for the same reason. We need Communism/Radical Islam. And, of course, access to cheap oil.
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It’s why we’ve had to have an enemy for so long. Got to justify all of this some way.
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Eisenhower tried to tell us when he was leaving office. May be too late now to make any dramatic changes in such without triggering a massive collapse.

We could leave special forces in Afghanistan to capture OBL and bring everyone else home. Ditto for all remaining in Iraq. That’ll save some bucks. -Decon, #5.
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With a few spy satellites and we could deny al Qaeda safe-haven too.
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So why aren’t we doing this?

Either way, kbang, the laws still apply. When you factor in the parasail, you are using drag, mass and resistance equations, but they still apply everywhere. And, ultimately, you’re still going DOWN.
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You can’t cheat laws of nature and cause them to fail.
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The free market, on the other hand, doesn’t allow for out-of-control human greed. That’s not supposed to happen, even when it does in plain sight.

Someone criticizes the President and you jump on the republican party bashing bandwagon. Can someone be upset with the president even if they aren’t republicans?

Remember, WE THE PEOPLE.

Never forget ‘WE THE PEOPLE’ should be the focus of any government.

They haven’t yet had their big asset bubble crash / recession like ours and Europe’s. They’re still trying to grow production rapidly to keep people working (to keep them from rioting?)
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deconstructiva,
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How much of China is very rural with very little contact with Beijing? They’ve lived like that for multiples of the time we’ve existed as a country. I doubt China’s stocking up on subdivisons, luxury houses or CRE.
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Are we making a mistake by assuming that their people are as obsessed with the markets as we are and, therefore, will be impacted by a collapse was we are?
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I’m hearing a lot of that reasoning – they think like we do and are as things-driven as we are, so a crash will affect them as badly as we will be. Many don’t know what they’re missing (or even feel they are missing anything they need).

With a few spy satellites and we could deny al Qaeda safe-haven too.
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pintortwo,
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Satellites = predictable orbits. You need something relatively random to use for spying to be truly effective. Drones are better but can’t be everywhere at once.
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You are still going to need human intelligence because someone needs to be able to find out where meetings are going to be. Relying on phone intercepts assumes the the leaders are stupid enough to be using a media that can be intercepted.
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Whatcha gonna do it they user human couriers or carrier pigeons or another low-tech solution?
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Sometimes, high technology doesn’t always triumph…

Afguy (4.1) answered my question:
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I’ve started to think of the defense industry/budget/foreign military aid as one gigantic jobs program/stimulus package.
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I think that’s one of the dirty little secrets in Washington – how much of our very society and economy that would collapse without massive military spending… And, of course, access to cheap oil.
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This is why Cheney lied us into Iraq and into building infrastructure in Afghanistan (as opposed to dismantling al Qaeda and leaving). This is why Obama continues the campaign.
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I think it’s possible to break from this model: transfer spending into domestic projects (to keep jobs) and develop non-oil fuels (once the fuel and other technologies mature, they will become the employment source) . But it will take courageous leadership to do it.

afguy: I agree wholeheartedly with you about needing human intelligence to go along with the high technology. It reminds me of the military interpreters that were discharged for being gay and were fluent in Arabic around 9/11. We let assests we desperately needed go because of personal sexual preferences. Along with “too big to be allowed to fail”, we also have “too stupid to succede”.

Afguy, I think you’re right. I’m not sure if everyone there embraces capitalism 100%. Is there a disconnect between rural and urban Chinese? I’m just guessing if their asset bubbles will burst but their economy is growing by 10-ish percent. Ours isn’t, if it’s growing at all. I follow Jim Jubak’s blog daily and he watches China closely. Check this out (heavy on macro numbers) – http://jubakpicks.com/2010/01/15/china-isnt-an-asset-bubble-waiting-to-burst-its-worse/
(if you hit china tag at bot. of home page you’ll find many articles)
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re:China’s real estate, this slideshow quickly captures some of the bullet points (more details needed, though) –
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-chinese-real-estate-bubble-is-the-most-obvious-bubble-ever-2010-1
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Short seller Jim Chanos (who made a fortune shorting Enron) is also wary –
http://www.cnbc.com/id/35056774
(Yes, I know these sites are politically R-heavy but I’m just looking at the #’s. Political bobbleheads like Larry Kudlow get none of my attention.) Hope these help.

sacredh!!
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Glad to see you. Was afraid you had departed semi-permanently. Your comments make my day.
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You are correct. Our lack of common sense/vision is killing us!

…sacred, it’s amazing how much talent is out there that we miss (or dismiss), even when right in front of us. Bloomberg’s Margaret Brennan is fluent in Arabic but most people (including me) focus on her biz news reporting (and her looks). I’ll bet many didn’t know this (the language, not the looks – that’s blinding obvious) …and welcome back. Between us, can we get KT to create more “1000 words” and replies?

Thanks for the kind words afguy. I just took a badly needed week long break from the internet. It was enjoyable and I got to watch several movies and a few of the Cavaliers games on the tube. I’m off for 5 days and it’s just too damned cold outside to go anywhere. We’re going to have windchills below zero for the next few days here. It figures. I’m off till Tuesday afternoon and all 5 days are going to be crappy. We were supposed to use my days off to go car hunting but the mrs vetoed that idea this morning.

Sure, I’m exaggerating for emphasis (but probably not by too much as I’m including Decon’s recommendation of special forces). The over-all point is that we don’t need $4 billion dollars worth of military infrastructure in Afghanistan, half-a-million US, NATO troops and contractors, and to train 400K Afghani troops to deny safe-haven to al Qaeda. A small fraction of this would be over-kill. Permanent bases are not necessary. Therefore, there must be another reason why it is happening.

I’m not sure if everyone there embraces capitalism 100%. Is there a disconnect between rural and urban Chinese?
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Decon,
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Good. You got my point. How long have they known capitalism? They trade with each other but I doubt would ever embrace an “unfettered free market”.
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We tried to export democracy to an area of the world with no history of such (and their history goes back a lot longer than ours). We sit there puzzled as our plans fall flat because we can’t understand why they don’t see things as we do.
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The articles you linked to indicated that the Chinese gov’t was into growth but didn’t really address whether the populace was as much into that as well. Given that the gov’t doesn’t consult with its citizentry that much, I suspect that they just ignore each other. If the gov’t miscalculates and things crash, the locals will just go on with life because they don’t rely on the gov’t for everything (or anything much). Their response to a crash might be “That’s too bad – let’s go get in the rice crop before winter sets in.”
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My point is: we’ve become obsessed with the “ups-and-downs” of the stock market. I think it’s dangerous to assume that the Chinese people are too and base our economic policy toward them on that assumption.

We were supposed to use my days off to go car hunting but the mrs vetoed that idea this morning.
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sacredh,
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Good luck with the car. With three teenage boys, our driveway looks like a used-car lot. My last few days have been spent with the acquisition of DSL (and the setup thereof).
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Suffice to say that any resemblance between the included setup instructions (after hardware connection) and those I was given when I called AT&T Tech support are purely coincidental!

deconstructiva, I took a couple of hours this morning after I got home from work this morning to catch up on some threads from the past week that I missed (no commenting until this one though). I think the Chinese are going to be well and truly f**ked when they start to clean up their environmental problems. I think they’re going to have superfund sites out the wazoo. It’s possible that that’s going to be their bubble.

@sacred: Good to see you back!
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re: “Too Stupid to Succeed” – You were referring to Joe’s post earlier this week?

Thanks kbanginmotown. That did give me a pretty serious chuckle. I’m not sure I disagree with him though. I got a call last night at work from a conservative friend of mine and he was almost beside himself because he thought the SOTU address clinched it for the republican party in this year’s elections. He came right out and told me how happy he was that the job market was so bad and that so many people were out of work. He’s actually hoping for things to get worse so that his party can pick up more seats. I didn’t know what to say. I let him ramble on for a couple minutes and then told him I had to go.

And afguy (#9), I think we overestimate the threat of al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Not only does National Security Adviser, Gen James Jones, believe that al Qaeda has “No ability to launch attacks on either us or our allies” from Afghanistan (link), but think of who the “leaders” are. It is not the miserable souls planting roadside fertilizer bombs to kill our troops– the terrorists are wealthy individuals from other nations. They don’t need Afghanistan for “meetings”, or anything. Absent American troops and the illegitimate (certainly in their mind) Karzai regime as targets, I doubt they’d want to come back.

I think they’re going to have superfund sites out the wazoo. It’s possible that that’s going to be their bubble.
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sacred,
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I agree that their industry are some world-class polluters but do you think they will be any more diligent about cleanup of their sites than we are? Or just hide them from a populace that really doesn’t care that much?
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We’ve still got some sites that are absolute nightmares ourselves and the cleanup hasn’t even begun on them.
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Hanford, Washington, anyone? That’s Oak Ridge West. 2/3 of our existing nuclear waste is at that one site.

I think we overestimate the threat of al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
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pintortwo,
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Their value is as another “boogeyman” that we can point to to justify opening a few more bases over there.
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As a more practical threat, I worry more about the nuclear material from a stolen Russian ICBM warhead trucked in in the back of a U-Haul into NY or some other major city, wrapped in a bunch of C4, and detonated as a “dirty” bomb.

afguy, I don’t think they’re anywhere near as diligent as we are or even were 30 years ago. I live in the Ohio Valley and the pollution was terrible here back then. Billions were invested in cleanup and that was decades ago. We used to have air quality alerts where they would advise people not to do any strenuous activity outdoors and to keep the young indoors. It took over 10 years to get it under control and I can’t even remember the last time there was an alert. It’s still not safe to eat fish out of the river more than twice a year. I think it’s far worse in China and when the cancer rates skyrocket and they can’t even drink the water, then they’ll have to invest a significant part of their resources just for safer food and water. The encroaching deserts are already a catastrophe. I think they’ll take themselves down.

I can remembered what I thought right after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Amid all of the cheering at the end of the Cold War, there was talk of their military going unpaid for long periods and a lack of positive control of nuclear stockpiles.
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I remember praying that their military officers be as professional as I hoped ours would be under similar circumstances. The temptation to pilfer some material (and fudge the paperwork, if any) to feed your family would have been great. Given the corruption that also existed in the political leadership, the attraction of wealth could have been great.
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We do know that some material is unaccounted for during that period. Whether it is missing or just a documentation error isn’t known, but I think Obama’s call to secure stockpiles worldwide is spot-on.
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Hope we’re not closing the door after a horse or two is already missing, is all.

afguy: There was a movie a few years back called Dirty Bomb and if I remember correctly, they used radioactive medical waste. If the loss of the WTC and an attack on the Pentagon caused a trillion dollar loss in the markets, what would the loss of even a quarter of a city do? It wouldn’t even have to be physically destroyed. Contaminted would have the same effect.

Their value is as another “boogeyman” that we can point to to justify opening a few more bases over there.
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afguy, they’re Obama’s boogeyman.
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Al Qaeda in Afghanistan today is Bush’s Saddam + WMDs. The new boogeyman exists for the same reason as the old one. This is my point.
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If we were appalled by Bush/Cheney, we must not give Obama a free pass. They use the same playbook (and military brass). Joe and the village can analyze the Afghanistan war in a serious fashion. The neocon press (Krauthammer, Kristol, Weekly Standard, Rove, Bolton…) will criticize Obama on non-essential issues: interrogation, detention, language. But it’s all bunk. The neocons realize that Obama champions their cause; the criticisms are intended to distract us from that reality. Meanwhile, Joe and his peers predictably fall into the same trap– the one that they swore would never happen again. And we follow along.

sacredh,
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The Twin Towers were a symbol of capitalism. That’s why the market effect was so dramatic and why there’s such a push to get SOMETHING up in their place.
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Think of the effect of one set off in the heart of Wall Street… we’d never recover.
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Or, in a fit of vengeance, we’d turn some poor country somewhere into a giant mirror without considering the long-term ramifications.

afguy, they’re Obama’s boogeyman
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pintortwo,
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I’m wondering if they aren’t the CIA’s boogeyman as much as anyone’s. Obama’s not looking out the window to see this as much as he’s relying on others to provide the NIE’s.
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There are still others in the mix whose motives have been suspect for quite a while. But you’re right – if he continues to listen to the same players and follow their lead knowing that the intel has been cooked in the past, without developing alternate, trusted channels for verification, it’s his baby.

afguy, that scenario worries me too. If we did suffer a dirty bomb attack on any of our cities, there would be an enormous outcry for an immediate reponse. Getting the country/people responsible is the problem. If there was an indication that North Korea was behind it, the pressure for a quick response would be immense. A terrorist group could plant false evidence and escape punishment. Many people say Obama is taking too much time making decisions. I’d rather see a delayed response after we’ve made sure who is responsible. Bomb now and ask questions later is sheer lunacy. I feel better having a person in the White House that thinks things out. Using an attack to settle an old score with nation X is all too plausible.

afguy, I don’t think you can say Obama is the victim of bad intel or a CIA conspiracy. He was a Senator, now he’s the Executive. My opinion (whatever the hell that’s worth) is that it’s a combination of the neocons forcing his hand, an unwillingness to “fight” his generals and a desire to focus on other issues (HCR, jobs…).
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Per the neocons forcing his hand, consider this:
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The military has already spent roughly $2.7 billion on (Afghanistan) construction over the past three fiscal years. Now, if its request is approved as part of the fiscal 2010 defense appropriations bill, it would spend another $1.3 billion on more than 100 projects at 40 sites across the country, according to a Senate report on the legislation. (link)
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That’s powerful momentum. Imagine the press circus if he abandoned that. And if he defied his generals… look out– much of the press was in a lather when he didn’t immediately give Petraeus everything he wanted (Obama did eventually, but caught flack anyway). He may have also made a pragmatic decision that he’d be better able to pass Healthcare legislation if the press wasn’t seething over Afghanistan.

A terrorist group could plant false evidence and escape punishment.
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Why bother? As someone said, how do you invade or bomb a “movement”? If bin Laden came on screen and claimed responsibility but the attack was carried out by the Saudi wing of al-Qeida, who are you going to bomb?
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We gonna piss off the Saudis by leveling their oil fields?? Not bloody likely…
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I doubt an attack on the mountains of Afghanistan would do much exc. kill a number of nomads and sheep in the immediate area. If bin Laden’s in a cave there, we wouldn’t have verification that we got him but WOULD have enough new enemies in that part of the world to last the next few generations.

I don’t think you can say Obama is the victim of bad intel or a CIA conspiracy.
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Not necessarily a conspiracy, but I think the CIA has long-term “interests” that extend beyond dispassionate intel-gathering and don’t stop at any given administration.
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Put in plain English – I don’t completely trust them. They’ve done a lot of damage to our national reputation abroad over the years.

sacred, if you stop back to this thread, check out the link to a Charlie Pierce article on the SOTU.

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/opinion/reaction-to-state-of-the-union-2010-012810?click=pp

Ivy_B,
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Not addressed to me but…
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Read it … loved it… still laughing.

When encountering these conservatives, one has to wonder if they really are this dumb or whether they intentionally misstate facts. The FACT is the only President in the last 30 years to run a balanced budget and bring down the deficit was BILL CLINTON. Every Republican has blown up the budget, this is easily verifiable and with this much intentional misinformation out there, the MSM should report this at every turn. The facts:

The deficit was 900 Billion at 33% of GDP prior to Reagan taking office. By 1990 the deficit had almost TRIPLED to 3.2 TRILLION.

The deficit was 5. 7 TRILLION at 57% of GDP when GW Bush took office in 2001. By the time W left the deficit stood at 9,985.8 TRILLION at 70% of GDP.

Conservatives, expert liars, are attempting to muddy the waters. The MSM has a duty to double down on facts and actually inform the public in the fact of a wilfull and coordinated attempt to misinform. Then again, that misinformation works to the corporate owned media….so I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Ivy_B, thank you so much for the link. It was hilarious because it was spot on. I’ve been doing laundry,
cleaning up downstairs and was just taking a coffee/cigarette break. I had to stop drinking the coffee to avoid choking. I didn’t watch the SOTU last night because I was watching a ballgame. I did watch most of the highlights this morning. I’d like to think the speech signals a new determination to get things done, but I’ll have to wait and see.
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I have thought that if Obama manages a second term that would be when we would see some real change. I hope I’m wrong about that and we start to see some in-your-face gamesmanship sooner rather than later. It’s also occurred to me that if the republicans take the house in November that they’d have to actually do something instead of just whining like little b!tches. That would be interesting.

Not sure where your data came from (speaking of expert liars) but this historical chart link shows a bit different story.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/downchart_gs.php?year=1900_2010&view=1&expand=&units=p&fy=fy10&chart=G0-fed&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&title=US%20Federal%20Deficit%20As%20Percent%20Of%20GDP&state=US&color=c&local=s
==

I am also not sure how you then say the deficit was 57% of GDP when Bush took office? And just a final reality check for you. It is Congress that initiates any spending and it was a Republican Congress that reined in Clinton after his HC fiasco and the 1994 election debacle (a preview of the 2010 for Demos).

freeinpa, I think the 57% was the total accumulated deficit and not the yearly deficit.

Glad you liked it. Just thought of sacred in particular.
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I <3 Charlie Pierce!
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On another note, since he is primarily a sports writer, he wrote an article on Tiger Woods in 1997 (before he won his first master's) that showed that Tiger was not exactly the squeaky clean media creature he had been portrayed as. Pierce was the only one that pulled the curtain aside back then.

Six hours of good, stimulating discussion about to come to an end.
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Remember, it’s Thursday…. and the restriction on dietary habits.
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It’s been a pleasure today, all.

Ivy_B,
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I always found it revealing that one of the first members of Tiger’s inner circle was Michael Jordan, who virtually pioneered the “I am a brand to be protected” practice, and had image problems of his own.

Krugman from a couple of recent blog posts:

“They’re [the administration] well aware that the spending freeze will make no difference to the long-run budget outlook. This is just a sop to public prejudices and/or centrist Democrats in the Senate.

… it’s a spectacular demonstration of Obama’s failure to change the narrative. Not only is he accepting the general Republican world view, he’s parroting their dumb attacks on his own policies.”

“The spending freeze — about which the best thing you can say in its favor is that it’s a transparently cynical PR stunt — has, for many, been the final straw: rhetorically, it’s a complete concession to Reaganism.

But progressives are in the process of losing a big chance to change the narrative, and that’s largely because they have a leader who never had any inclination to do so.”

And kudos to Joe for wading into comments a lot more of late. And re: the above post, though we’d likely differ about how to alter education or the defense budget, in general I agree with him–ditto infrastructure and the mythical green economy.

Thank you for the link, Ivy_B. Thank you!

Tell you what. Put the marginal tax rates back to where they were in the booming (deficit-reducing) 90′s, then get back to me.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/forever-war/

[...] the solution is Joe Klein’s take on what should be considered “defense spending:” If the President wants to exempt all [...]

Afguy (all), coincidentally, Cmdr Jeff Huber posts today about this topic. He talks about how the Generals, media and Congress conspired to trap Obama into continuing the Long War. A sampling (link):
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Candidate Obama stepped into a steaming pile of gotcha when he promised to “finish the job” in Afghanistan. He did so in response to heat he was taking for having voted in the Senate against the surge that turned out to be such a “success” and that, as FOX News noted, his presidential opponent “John McCain courageously fought for.” The “successful surge” in Iraq has been one of the warmongery’s most successful PR ploys to date.
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(Petraeus, McChrystal) know how to manipulate the media and baffle Congress and the public with bull feathers, as does Joint Chiefs chairman Admiral Mike Mullen… The way they polluted the information environment to mousetrap Obama into going along with the Afghanistan surge was eye-watering. In another era — most notably the Truman administration days — an insubordinate stunt like that would have gotten Petraeus, McChrystal and Mullen transferred to Civilian Command. However, the three amigos currently at the top of the armed forces pile are connected and valued in high places, especially in the defense industry and the Congress, both of which have a vested interest in making the Long War as long as possible.
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(I may re-link this later, forgive me for the repeat)

PS.
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I think the CIA has long-term “interests” that extend beyond dispassionate intel-gathering and don’t stop at any given administration.
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Afguy, the CIA disagreed with most of the “intel” that turned out to be bogus: metal tubes for WMDs, Niger uranium (which was a forgery), Saddam – al Qaeda link… Most of the BS stories came from the Office of Special Plans.
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-(http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Office_of_Special_Plans)