Obama Administration Grants Temporary Immigration Status To Haitians In U.S.

Xenophobes rejoice! “Palin-Dobbs 2012″

And the Obama train wreck keeps on getting better each and everyday.

How would you have handled the situation?

I don’t understand what this means, actually.
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Is the point not to deport them to a destroyed country, just to do it later?

what train wreck?

Your Obama bashing is getting old newfreedom. At this point, you don’t even know why you are bashing him. How exactly can you describe how Obama is handling the Haitian situation as a “train wreck?” That is the phrase I would use to describe how Bush handled Katrina. Maybe you should go back to blog whoring.

Actually, I was asking newfreedomblog the question I had a 4.

This post on TPM sums up the situation pretty well:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/01/we_didnt_break_it.php#more?ref=fpblg

No one wants it, but we’ll have to deal with it. It’s unavoidable. The US has been meddling in Haiti for most of the past century. It looks like we’re going to be headed back there again. It’s not something we want or need right now — we’ve got enough problems of our own (not to mention the problems we created in Iraq). But we don’t get to choose the timing on this one.

This sounds like a good idea, allowing Haitians, even if they are illegals, to stay here and get jobs rather than return to a wrecked country.
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Question- after the 18 months, do they get deported or what? In a way, this could prove to be a trap for them. Get them on the books so they are easier to deport later.

Maybe it means they will be free to get jobs and send some money home. They can be assured they will not be immediately deported. Of course, there needs to be some better solutions for Haiti and Haitians in general.

Ted Rall wrote a good piece yesterday on our history in Haiti:
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http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/14-13
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As is always true, our current dealings should not be stripped of historical context.

How do guys like this get elected?

Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, said in an e-mail message to ABCNews. “Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation, but if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers, and many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians.”

I have no ill regards for the poor Haitians and their tradgedy. It is simply the rash and flippant decision making skills of fully recognizable poor judgment by our President.
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I am just wondering in the weeks ahead, how those citizens now without a job, whose unemployment checks which I am sure will soon run out will feel about the rationale given for the “temporary” immigration status to an illegal who is in this country illegally.
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“This will allow these people to legally get jobs.”

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Then what happens after the time period of the “temporary” status has expired? Do they simply walk out of their newly found “legal” job?
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I am thinking this opens the door for ALL illegals in this country at this time to be granted immigrant status. Why just stop at Haitians?

So how would you have handled the situation?

‘Question- after the 18 months, do they get deported or what?’
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Probably. The US is currently processing deportation orders for about 30,000 Haitians. Better to leave them here for now. What is the alternative? Drop them off in Port-au-Prince with a sandwich and a bottle of water?

Bob~
You keep asking “How would you have handled the situation?” Is there an implication in there somewhere that granting temporary residency to 100,000-200,000 currently illegal aliens is a rational response to an earthquake in Haiti? I’m not criticizing this when viewed on its own independent merits, however, when examined through the prism of humanitarian relief efforts, what precisely does this move do for the disenfranchised masses who are in Haiti at this very moment? It would seem to me that the appropriate response, if addressed through immigration controls, would be to issue 100,000-200,000 temporary entry visas to Haitian refugees of the quake, not offering plush legal opportunities to those who have already violated US law, are not in physical harm by way of the quake, and who cannot utilize their new found income to assist their relatives back in Haiti in any sort of reasonably expeditious manner. How long before these people find work? How long before they begin receiving legally sanctioned income? How long before they are able to send any of that back to Haiti to assist friends and relatives? How can we be sure that any even will? Too many unknowns are involved in this equation to consider this to be a well-thought out humanitarian response.

I don’t see any problems with what Obama is doing.
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So far, he’s been handling it with force and alacrity.
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I think everyone can pick to death every decision he makes, but one thing is clear:
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At least he’s doing something.
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BTW, where is that “train wreck”?

My question would be how many of these Haitians are going to come FWD to get these temp. benefits? Temp. amnesty w/ the likely deportation in 18 mo’s. I’d stay off the books in the shadow econ., staying as long as poss.

US Immigration acts in a generally mechanistic fashion. While this disaster is taking place, the wheels will turn and some of the 100,000 to 200,000 illegals here will be deported like clockwork if something isn’t done to temporarily “stop the clock” on them.
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I see no problem with that. It doesn’t make any sense to send them home yet. Wait until the situation is resolved before restarting the clock.

whose unemployment checks which I am sure will soon run out because Republicans oppose extending benefits

Carry on.

Exiled: I believe the idea is just to void deporting people to a disaster area, on humanitarian grounds. From the linked TIME article:
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TPS is granted to “aliens in the United States who are temporarily unable to safely return to their home country because of ongoing armed conflict, an environmental disaster, or other extraordinary and temporary conditions.”

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So it won’t actively improve the situation in Haiti, but it will avoid needlessly exacerbating it.

“to void” s/b “to avoid”

Exiled — I keep asking because it’s easy to cheap shot the handling of a bad situation. No matter what Obama does the situation is still going to be bad. I think it’s revealing that I’m not getting many suggestions as to what we should DO instead. Just complaints about what we shouldn’t do. It’s a bit like hearing complaints about how awful a cancer treatment is, without considering what would happen without it.
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I’m afraid I’m a bit confused by what you’re proposing. Are you suggesting that we admit 100,000-200,000 Haitians to the US from the island, and deport (back to Haiti) the 30,000 Haitians the INS currently is processing?

Thank you Exiled. I was busy responding back to one of Mr Zechman’s request for empirical data on the patent law.
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Mr Bob, I get the sense that you believe I solely question Mr Obama’s what I believe to be a rushed decision to grant legal status as some sort of “partisan” objection so that we can simply point fingers at him and say “see, we told you so”, without any basis.
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I simply believe that this is yet again another example of Mr Obama’s lack of judgment skills and potentially make things worse for all of us, not better for a few 100,000 Haitians who Exiled so eloquently pointed out are not in any danger at this time.
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Unless there is some other more politically driven motive, it truly does not make any sense to do this in my mind. The only thing that makes sense rationally to me is that it is a feeble attempt in Obama’s mind to “look good” or there is another agenda he will leap from this decision to the other.
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I haven’t researched it, but in my knowledge no other time has a “temporary legal status for a known illegal” in this country been granted unless the illegal was found, then could not be sent back due to potential persecution by the government that they fled from in the first place.
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Grant them emergency refugee status, but by doing so the illegal individual risks deportation once it is clear no danger in Haiti is apparent after the recovery process has ended.

‘I’d stay off the books in the shadow econ., staying as long as poss.’
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I think the TPS plan is really only expected to address the Haitians the INS already knows about (or ones they find in the near future). I think you’re right to expect that Haitians that are already illegal residents and not known to the system will continue to hide. And I think it’s likely that some will come up with new ways to scam the system. In light of the current disastrous situation, though, I think the scam artists will be an annoyance, but an annoyance we’ll have to tolerate.

‘Grant them emergency refugee status, but by doing so the illegal individual risks deportation once it is clear no danger in Haiti is apparent after the recovery process has ended.’
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So, after carping about the ‘Obama train wreck’, your solution is to do essentially the same thing that Obama is planning to do? It’s nice to hear that you endorse the administration’s plan.

Well Bob, while I appreciate your endorsement of my position to be similar to Obama’s, I would in fact deport them. I find it hard to believe that once Obama grants temporary immigrant status he will deport the illegals. But, we will not rush to judgment just yet. We will let time be the answer, now won’t we?
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Seems interesting that the time frame is 18 months. Well enough past the time of the next election in November of this year. Yes?

[...] Obama Administration Grants Temporary Immigration Status To In a conference call late Friday, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced a… [...]

53_3 I’ll give you some problems with the response. Just like in Katrina the rescue workers aren’t going downtown. The few rescue teams have been at the UN building and at a hotel. This angers the haitians that they are only trying to find foreigners.

Obama put USAID in charge. The head of USAID has only been there for six days because Obama dithered until november in naming a USAID director because of crazy vetting standards.

Obama should have put the military in charge. Obama had teams make assessments before going into action.

Iceland rescue teams got there very quickly and went right into action without assessments and went downtown to help haitians same with norwegian teams.

Nurses Association has been trying to allow Obama administration to let voluntary nurses go down. 3,000 nurses have volunteered but Obama administration has rejected their offer. Haiti desperately needs field hospitals and nurses and doctors. No medical support staff from u.s going to haiti hospitals. There is no coordination that is why the military should be in charge instead of USAID.

Obama the first day told Clinton she could continue her trip to new zealand and australia which was a mistake with the gravitiy of the situation.

Obama delayed military going the first day. Comfort ship deployment was delayed.

No one from U.S embassy went to check that the port wasn’t operational and instead turned back ships instead of sending them to dominican republican and then coming over.

U.S embassy isn’t going after injured americans their answer is they have no way to find them. After this disaster their has to be a better way of americans checking in with the embassy or the embassy working with customs at haiti’s aiport. U.S embassy didn’t even check on the wellfare of the u.s embassy employees in their homes.

There is no coordination between the relief agenices and the U.S and the UN. No coordination just like Katrina.

U.S turned away search and rescue teams from the aiport when it became too crowded but that should have never happened if only vital support was allowed in the first place.

Obama did catch some breaks though: He didn’t nominate a USAID nominee for 11 months until after hurricane season and it didn’t hurt him.

This didn’t happen when Obama was on vacation playing golf in Hawaii. Being all the way in Hawaii for weeks isn’t the best place for a president if a disaster strikes.

This didn’t happen during the holidays when all of Obama’s administration officials were on holiday like we saw during the bomber case.

Obama should have just stopped deporations of haitians and didn’t have to grant this status of legally working.

Even the british press independent is bashing the U.S response.

But in america we have reporters who put ideology before country.

In Katrina national dems were the first day working with blanco in e-mails to blame bush.

You won’t see any critical reporting in the U.S on this after all they are all democrats and gave Obama Newsweek cover. We have no democracy when MSM favors one party so much.

‘Seems interesting that the time frame is 18 months. Well enough past the time of the next election in November of this year. Yes?’
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Of course! Everything Obama does is an evil plot to screw republicans.

apr~
No, as I pointed out above, there is no way that remittances could work through this initiative. Currently illegal Haitians in the US would have to wait for the proper documentation validating their presence here, then find work, then wait on their first paychecks, then, if they should even choose to do so, send that money back to Haiti to assist friends or relatives. This is not going to solve anything. However, as Art Pepper pointed out, TPS is awards to delay the deportation of illegals to tumultuous situations in their home countries. So, it would seem that is the intent here.

Bob~
Certainly that is not what I am advocating. The 30,000 currently in INS awaiting deportation should have their stays extended on the grounds of potential risks for them in Haiti. However, where does the number 100,000-200,000 come from? Are we simply issuing a TPS for every known illegal Haitian, even those who are not in custody and therefore will not be facing any deportation in the foreseeable future.

Exiled — I didn’t understand your post. That’s why I asked you to clarify it.

There is a plan to bring 45,000 haitians who aren’t u.s citizens to central florida.

http://www.wftv.com/news/22249688/detail.html

Ouch!

And is it sufficiently clear…?
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-I’m advocating issuing asylum visas to Haitians directly affected by the earthquake
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-I’m advocating awarding TPS to illegal Haitians in US custody facing imminent deportation
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-I’m opposing work visas for illegal Haitians as that has no bearing on the earthquake (the employment/payment/remittance process would take too long to benefit victims in Haiti)
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Gee you sound like an expert. Lets put you in charge – of finger pointing. I hear there’s a real need for that.

To Paul Dirks:

People need food and the UN and countries aren’t going downtown to help the people.

The airport is a few blocks from the city and it just sits at the airport.

Journalists go into downtown and have rescued more than anyone.

UN won’t even pass out the food right away because they want security. Just go out and help the people the journalists don’t care about all the security. What is upsetting is the people in the city aren’t being helped.

The only way if you are injured as an american or haitian to get help is to go the airport. You have all these injured people showing up at the airport because people aren’t going downtown to help them.

There are also mass graves being used and there are no records. CNN said they saw someone with a canadian passport dumped in a mass grave. Americans have missing friends or relatives and they could be americans and be dumped in a mass grave with no record. The haitian government contracted out these trucking companies to dump all these bodies and I wish they would at least try and check the nationalities. We should have quickly sent those teams from new orleans that helped with the bodies.

I was busy responding back to one of Mr Zechman’s request for empirical data on the patent law
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…with a quote from a “patent reform study” commissioned by the Biotechnology Industry Organization, i.e. the PhRMA of Biotech.
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Sort of like the tobacco industry’s studies on the effects of smoke ( link to “American Cancer Society Condemns Tobacco Industry Study for Inaccurate Use of Data” ) .

Hmmm, and they said it was bad under Bush II. Imagine that. Perhaps major catastrophe are difficult to manage, and mistakes are very possible. But, I won’t jump to conclusions as my liberal friends have done. I will give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he is as President of the US of A, doing as much as humanly possible.

Hmmm, the silence from the left is DEAFENING. Speak, speak!

Thank you sox for your insight into the problems which are occuring despite our American actions to help in this great tradgedy.
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But, there are other countries such as Venezuela, who have sent with the blessing of Yugo Chavez, ONE airplane with food, medicine and various other necessities.
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China has given, 1 Million dollars.
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Iran, 40 tons of food.
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and Saudi Arabia….well so far nothing.
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And, we have an American Actor, Danny Glover who is blaming the earthquake on the US non-action at the recent Climate Conference. Danny said this is what we get for not passing the climate initiatives. Didn’t Pat Robertson also get beat down for something similar? Did TIME write anything on Danny Glover’s outrageous statements?
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Well I do know one thing. America has been there many times to help. Many times over the years we have provided the assistance. More times than I dare say any country on the earth, in history. Ever.
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Americans are a great people. Yes sometimes our leaders make mistakes. They simply make the wrong choice, but it is not because of some evil purpose. Our leaders are not perfect and should never be crucified, especially in times of crisis.
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I do hope my liberal friends can remember this day, this week. And before they shout out their rude and crude non-sense comments, remember this day.

Thanks for the info Bob.

Still silence from the left. Wonder why?

Makes more sense than anything I’ve read so far. Deport them, with a sandwich ,water and a shovel. If I was here, and my country had been struck with such a disaster I would be clamoring to go back and do what I could. Hell, even give em a timecard and pay em at the end of the week.
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OTOH though, it’s nice to know that we just happen to have 100-200,000 jobs just laying around in this country. I guess we should expect to see the unemployment numbers here start to plummet any day now.

Exiled:
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Watch and learn
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“53_3 I’ll give you some problems with the response. Just like in Katrina the rescue workers aren’t going downtown. The few rescue teams have been at the UN building and at a hotel. This angers the haitians that they are only trying to find foreigners.”
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They did not go into the city due to lack of infrastructure to get there.

“Obama put USAID in charge. The head of USAID has only been there for six days because Obama dithered until november in naming a USAID director because of crazy vetting standards.”
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This is a personal nitpick. It doesn’t seem to be affecting the problem and the response.

“Obama should have put the military in charge. Obama had teams make assessments before going into action.”
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That probably explains his holding back a bit, I think actually knowing what you are doing is a good idea. Otherwise, your opinion is showing here, and not reality.

“Iceland rescue teams got there very quickly and went right into action without assessments and went downtown to help haitians same with norwegian teams.”
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Is this actually a “reason”? Someone has to get there first!

“Nurses Association has been trying to allow Obama administration to let voluntary nurses go down. 3,000 nurses have volunteered but Obama administration has rejected their offer. Haiti desperately needs field hospitals and nurses and doctors. No medical support staff from u.s going to haiti hospitals. There is no coordination that is why the military should be in charge instead of USAID.”
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This is a mix of a previous complaint. If the nurse issue is real, than it’s a problem.
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“Obama the first day told Clinton she could continue her trip to new zealand and australia which was a mistake with the gravitiy of the situation.”
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And Bush took, as POTUS, how long?
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“Obama delayed military going the first day. Comfort ship deployment was delayed.”
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This is related to the already stated assessment teams. I’m not having a problem with his approach.
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“No one from U.S embassy went to check that the port wasn’t operational and instead turned back ships instead of sending them to dominican republican and then coming over.”
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I’m questioning this one. Even if trre, it’s only your opinion that this was not the best course of action.
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“U.S embassy isn’t going after injured americans their answer is they have no way to find them. After this disaster their has to be a better way of americans checking in with the embassy or the embassy working with customs at haiti’s aiport. U.S embassy didn’t even check on the wellfare of the u.s embassy employees in their homes.”
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A should. Again, uncheckable.

“There is no coordination between the relief agenices and the U.S and the UN. No coordination just like Katrina.”
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Problems, but not like Katrina at all. Five days of neglect does not trump this problem, which is not under Obama’s control.
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“U.S turned away search and rescue teams from the aiport when it became too crowded but that should have never happened if only vital support was allowed in the first place.”
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Another nitpick. The airport was damaged.
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I dropped the remainder as these are just a list of shoulds according to your political mores.
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As for Katrina, go to http://www.levees.org for an accurate dsicusssion of the Katrina debacle.
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Thanks for watching, Exiled.
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Hope you learned something.

Now for a wrap up on this.
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Exiled, get that pen out and take notes.
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1. On further reflection, a one-day delay on military action is probably reasonable as Haiti is a foreign country. I’m not sure of the exact mechanics here, but the Haiti government wasn’t in residence as far as I know. As I remember, it was yesterday they gave permission, and within hours, had 3,500 army personnel and 2,000 marines on the ground. They turned over the airport yesterday as well.
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Keep in mind that the earthquake was a strikeslip earthquake whose epicenter was immediately under Port au Prince, the capital. This almost never occurs, and greatly intensified the destruction. (see usgs shake map)
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2. Your list was “bulked up” by a lot of ideologically driven “shoulds”. Big problems with that. USAID may indeed be competent to handle this, and the military / USAID cooperative seems to be working fine.
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3. No disaster of this size is ever perfectly handled, particularly in a foreign nation, so there will be some miscues.
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4. As for the Katrina comments, you just can’t compare five days of inaction, and other miscues, not to ignore the attendant demonization of the victims by Chertoff and others in the government, and GOP operatives in general which seems to be the only similarity I see here.
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5. There are unique aspects to Katrina that do not attend the 08 SF earthquake, hurricane Camille, the Galveston Harbor disaster, hurricane Andrew, and the Loma Prieta earthquake:
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a. With respect to the quality of the response only, In NONE of these, was federal help withheld. In ALL of these, federal help was provided within hours, and in some instances, the request, if needed (some were ‘national emergencies’) was reserved as a formality after the fact. Katrina was different, even though the laws regarding national-level response had not been changed significantly.
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Federal help was withheld in my opinion on ideological grounds (the area should be self sufficient, “smaller government”, etc) and proved to be an enormous mistake leaving other local agencies to operate in a vacuum, some (Gretna*) even obviating any effort to evacuate.
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See http://www.levees.org, sourcewatch, Wikipedia and other sources for documentation on this.
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b. In the quality of preparation, there is no doubt that Nagin and Blanco did not handle things properly, but also keep in mind that in 2003, a $785,000,000 ACE Levee Modernization Project was canceled, leaving only $6,000,000 for two GIS studies, by the federal government. (sourcewatch)
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c. Unique policies and actions taken after the disaster were highly questionable
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……The policy of not telling the refugees were headed until after they boarded evacuation buses.
……The fact that an economic zone suspending minimum wage requirements was placed around NOLA
…….The fact that the diaspora was taken to the reddest of red states.
…….The fact that of all people, Karl Rove was sent, ostensibly to “oversee the recovery efforts”.
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d. As for local failures, keep in mind that the storm had actually passed and that the NOLA police force was already in the field, when the first levees broke unexpectedly, further exacerbating the situation for an already maximally extended police force. Of course, we all know, that was the knockout blow, and chaos ensued.
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* The Gretna police force, acting in a vacuum, blocked the only available evacuation route available to the people in the superdome. [search 'Gretna']

“I do hope my liberal friends can remember this day, this week. And before they shout out their rude and crude non-sense comments, remember this day.”
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Do you really think that you can talk over the very, very loud voices of Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson?
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Good luck, Rusty…

I am sorry Mr Zechman that you found my link to the “empirical” data you requested on patents as, how did you put it, oh yes…
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“Sort of like the tobacco industry’s studies on the effects of smoke”

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I am sure that you know opinions will differ. And, I am guessing you have run across “studies” and “empirical” data that you agree with, but sometimes does not fully represent the facts. Sort of like this…
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http://www.climatecrisis.net/climate-change.php
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The unfortunate thing about “studies”, and the “empirical data” which they use can sometimes be flawed. The data can also be manipulated. Sometimes ruthless and dishonest people can also change the data to fit the need of the conclusion they are attempting to prove.
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It is I will agree, a dispicable action by those who do such things. But, Mr Zechman, I am confident that you are a very smart and intelligent individual, and can spot a fraud when you see it. I am not a betting man, but if I had to, I would most definately bet on you.
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Please have a great day, Mr Zechman, and thank you for your comments.

53_3
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Am I to believe that you discredit any and all criticism of governmental responses, policies, and actions that is opinion-based? So, to take the view that a given response was not favorable and should have been carried out in a different manner is inherently a flawed criticism because it is based on a ‘should’ scenario?

Maybe they think they are electing Stephen King?
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Just a thought…

Nope.
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You can look it all up. Facts, every one of them and where I have inserted my opinion, I’ve said so!
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On the other hand, his lists contain a lot of ideologically based “shoulds”. Of course his list is padded with some repeats and offshoots not to mention the fact that just on a simple ideological basis, he has criticisms. They are his ideologically based opinions.
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Let’s not even take into account that these types of situations are rife with chaotic conditions and muckups will occur.
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It’s easy to pick to death through minutae the actions of anyone, but I don’t see any compelling flaw in Obama’s response. The nurse thing, if true, might be one, and I said so.
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So far, I think Obama is handling it fine overall…

Let’s hope that this swift action to legalize haitians, encourages them to find jobs and not run to the nearest county office.

Rampant population growth threatens our economy and quality of life. Immigration, both legal and illegal, are fueling this growth. I’m not talking about environmental degradation or resource depletion. I’m talking about the effect upon rising unemployment and poverty in America.

I should introduce myself. I am the author of a book titled “Five Short Blasts: A New Economic Theory Exposes The Fatal Flaw in Globalization and Its Consequences for America.” To make a long story short, my theory is that, as population density rises beyond some optimum level, per capita consumption of products begins to decline out of the need to conserve space. People who live in crowded conditions simply don’t have enough space to use and store many products. This declining per capita consumption, in the face of rising productivity (per capita output, which always rises), inevitably yields rising unemployment and poverty.

This theory has huge implications for U.S. policy toward population management, especially immigration policy. Our policies of encouraging high rates of immigration are rooted in the belief of economists that population growth is a good thing, fueling economic growth. Through most of human history, the interests of the common good and business (corporations) were both well-served by continuing population growth. For the common good, we needed more workers to man our factories, producing the goods needed for a high standard of living. This population growth translated into sales volume growth for corporations. Both were happy.

But, once an optimum population density is breached, their interests diverge. It is in the best interest of the common good to stabilize the population, avoiding an erosion of our quality of life through high unemployment and poverty. However, it is still in the interest of corporations to fuel population growth because, even though per capita consumption goes into decline, total consumption still increases. We now find ourselves in the position of having corporations and economists influencing public policy in a direction that is not in the best interest of the common good.

The U.N. ranks the U.S. with eight third world countries – India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Democratic Republic of Congo, Bangladesh, Uganda, Ethiopia and China – as accounting for fully half of the world’s population growth by 2050. It’s absolutely imperative that our population be stabilized, and that’s impossible without dramatically reining in immigration, both legal and illegal.

If you’re interested in learning more about this important new economic theory, I invite you to visit my web site at http://PeteMurphy.wordpress.com.

Pete Murphy
Author, “Five Short Blasts”