Re Re: What’s A Natural Disaster Without Pat Robertson To Explain?

Thank you, KT. You’re a gem. People at my church would applaud this idea.

I’m totally on board with this designaiton. I’m sick of insane evangelist preachers getting a free pass on inflammatory speech simply because they’re not muslim.

Thanks KT and Trifecta.

Well, let’s break it down. He’s a cleric, a representative of a religious group. Check. Radical? Pretty much out of the main stream of what Christianity teaches, more of a Pharisee than a Jesus. Not much compassion there. Identifies more with the money-changers than the poor.
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More of a poor excuse for a true Christian leader than a radical. But he IS out of the mainstream with his teachings, so yeah, radical would work . . .

Pretty sure Jesus would be classified as a “radical cleric” today too. Just not in the same way as Pat.

The question is brilliant. Attempting to answer it could result in a very interesting and insightful discussion.

That’s 3 posts on a non-mainstream, not well-liked national figure.
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I’m not trying to be a jerk but attention fuels the fire guys.

Jesus, wasn’t he some long haired hippie liberal hanging out with homeless guys and women of loose morals? You need to protect the children from wild eyed loons like that.

If only he were some minor figure.
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CBN is now seen in 180 countries and broadcast in 71 languages.
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And, Regent University keeps pumping out lawyers to interpret the law by their own lights.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

KT: Please post a “1000 Words” with Robertson’s picture in it. We promise not to be boring.

On top of that, he was a serious Jew who probably would reject what has resulted from his rebellion.

Robertson isn’t radical. He is mainstream. I hope he and Sarah can get together on the next Presidential race.

But what is the difference between a radical cleric and a non-radical cleric?

…and let’s not forget David Brody of CBN’s comfortable seat at Meet The Press’ “journalist” roundtable.

With apologies to Dan Ackroyd and SNL:

Pat, you ignorant slut…

Actually, Robertson needs to move to Haiti to save souls. They are big down there in voodoo, living dead, all that. He would be a big hit, let alone saving the place from further catastrophe.

Non mainstream/not well-liked does not necessarily mean minor.
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Do you disagree with the 2nd sentence from my post?

Former: Like other TV evangicals he would find a way to make money off the disaster for himself. I once worked at a business who had the same number as a prayer line. I worked a late shift answering customer calls. I would get the prayer line calls sometimes and would explain my inability to pray for them.
Well, one night a man, obviously drunk, called asking me to pray for him. How much money did he need to send me? A woman’s voice rang out in the background, “listen you son of a b***ch, a**hole, get a prayer”! I could not convince him he had not reached the prayer line, so I finally said I would pray for him and he could also buy my video. Then I hung up. I hope he was relieved.

I think there’s a small issue with trying to label him a radical cleric:

We’d need to label a whole lot of other people ‘radical’ as well, because, sad as it is, his views are rarely that far off from those most politically associated with Christianity in the public sphere.

I’d rather label the whole of the Religious Right that Robertson exemplifies as ‘radical’, because they’ve repeatedly and continually tried to redefine what ‘Christianity’ is, what ‘morals’ are, and the like, at the expense of real Christians. The only reason they aren’t called ‘radical’ is because they’ve got the ear of people willing to coddle, sympathize with, and/or exploit the crazy.

1) Robertson may not have the power he once had, but I can’t call him ‘non-mainstream’. He still represents the cruel, brutal, callous, evangelical brand of Christianity that is the mainstream in his Country (at least in public and political perception).

2) Attention fuels the fire, but it also keeps some vile stuff from just going under the radar and fermenting until the stuff it inspires explodes up. It’s why it’s hard to ignore the awful stuff that comes from Limbaugh and Fox. You can’t count of them to just go away if no one listens, because even if you aren’t listening, way too many people are and take it as gospel despite the wrongness.

“rarely that far off from those most politically associated with Christianity in the public sphere.”
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Nah, I don’t think most publicly Christian people believe that 9/11 was revenge from God because of gay people, and that the Haitian people made a deal with the devil.

apollyon07 – I’m not talking your everyday, openly Christian folks out on the street.
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I’m talking people who go out into the public sphere ‘on behalf’ of Christianity. Tony Perkins, Bill Donahue, “The Family”. People who, for all intents and purposes, shape the public and political perception of what Christianity is.

Oh okay you mean the people that the majority of American Christians do not give two sh!ts about.
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They are to Christianity what Muslim terrorists are to Islam.

apr, that is truly funny. I would have prayed with him on the phone, laying hands on the headset. Yes, you did good.
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Of course Robertson will make money in Haiti if he takes my suggestion. That’s what he does.
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Can I get a copy of your video? Do you have a prayer cloth too? Other voodoo items for sale?

Oh okay you mean the people that the majority of American Christians do not give two sh!ts about.
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They are to Christianity what Muslim terrorists are to Islam. As such, they should be ignored and minimized as much as possible.
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Coming up next, a wave of requests for public apologies from anyone and everyone who is Christian and in public office.

apr2563: What did you do with my check?

apollyon07 – Essentially, yeah. The people who pervert the religion they supposedly follow, and yet have become the standard upon which the religion is held in the public eye.

I see, we are in more agreement than I originally thought.
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It’s a shame that these crackpots are able to contribute so much to what people, especially non-Christians, think about this religion.

sacred: I needed the money for my mansion. It comforts me when I am struggling with the devil. He comes to call too often.

Religion can be perverted beyond what it is? Let me think about that.

his views are rarely that far off from those most politically associated with Christianity in the public sphere

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Do you mean those attempting to foist their fundamentalism on the the rest of us Christians, establish a more theocratic state, undermine the pluralistic values enshrined by the Founders in our Constitution, and appropriate the terms “Christian”, “Christianity” and “faith” in public discourse for themselves, their particular religion, and their political agenda?
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Are you referring to those rightist activists whose supreme short-term goal was to politically associate fundamentalism with Christianity in the minds of network broadcast programming executives and advertisers fearful of giving offense to this market population?
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Is that what you mean by “those most politically associated with Christianity in the public sphere
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KT:

No need to give the reality-deficient “Newsbusters” whiners either your attention or any exposure. It just makes them think they matter.

NewsBusters — TIME’s Karen Tumulty: Pat Robertson Akin to Terrorist-tied Muslim Clerics?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2010/01/13/times-karen-tumulty-pat-robertson-akin-terrorist-tied-muslim-clerics

stuart – Yes, yes I do.
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The sad fact of the matter is that you will rarely ever see anyone advocate for more assistance for the poor by invoking Christ or God. You will rarely ever see anyone advocate for the end of pointless war by invoking Christ or God. You will rarely ever see anyone advocate for economic practices that don’t favor the rich by invoking God or Christ. But you see wars themselves advocated for in the name of God. You see draonic drug laws pushed in the name of God and such. You see blatant discrimination and prejudice advocated in the name of God.
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That’s because the people that you describe have essentially highjacked the religion in the public eye to the point that they define Christianity in the civic sphere for the most part. Yes, most Christians are good, sane, caring people. Said caring people are rarely ever the sorts that advocate polices by invoking Christianity. And that wholly depresses me.

So is Pat Robertson out there actively advocating the brutal murder of thousands if not millions of innocent people, the way these radical muslim clerics do? Or is he just some nut who nobody listens to, except when some liberal journalist decides to bring him to light, thus giving a bunch of leftwing whackos an excuse to partake in one of their favorite pastimes, which is bashing Christianity?

Here’s Steve Benen on Pat’s importance:
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In the larger political context, it’s worth remembering that Robertson remains a leading figure in the conservative movement and a prominent Republican voice, despite being insane. Even after Robertson blamed Americans for 9/11, GOP officials and candidates continue to appear on the “700 Club,” and seek out Robertson’s support, as if this crazed TV preacher need not be excluded from polite company.

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http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_01/021905.php

KT, tell Newsbusters that I hope a hobo stabs them all in the liver with a rusty knife.

apr2563: The Devil’s ex-wife lives with us. It’s my MIL. Old Scratch once told me, “I don’t know how you do it. That broad’s evil. I’ll pray for you.”.
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He always calls before he stops over. If she answers, he hangs up.

“So is Pat Robertson out there actively advocating the brutal murder of thousands if not millions of innocent people, the way these radical muslim clerics do?”
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Maybe you should ask Ken Shepherd. He’s the one who suggested it, not Karen Tumulty.
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While you’re at it, ask him if he’d consider changing his name, would ya? He’s giving the name “Shepherd” a bad name and I’m not quite through with it yet.

[...] as Radical Cleric Pat Robertson. This order is now going out all around the left blogsphere thanks to a smart commenter at Swampland. I believe the Great Orange Satan himself will have a word or two on the matter shortly. So, say it [...]

Don’t antbody tell Pat that Rick Warren and Dick Cheney have been banging his sister.

Well I see the far left liberal extremists have sent in their atheist hit squad.
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Or is this just a poor excuse for a wiccan meeting, with Karen Tumulty as the head witch??
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God will punish you all. Ask Joe Klein, he’s a Jew, he knows how vengeful the God of Abraham can be.

Maybe “Newsbusters” is right; maybe we’re being unfair.
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“Characteristically ignorant and extreme Republican Pat Robertson” might be more accurate.

Final proof that rusty’s simply in it for the trolling

http://religiousfreaks.com/?p=169
Pat Robertson (AKA: Al Franken, Stuart Smallie) and the Church Lady

Hey, looks like rusty judges a Christian’s worth by his willingness to kick a man when he’s down.
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No surprise there, amirite?

[...] customer calls. … Swampland – http://swampland.blogs.time.com/ Excerpt from: Re Re: What's A Natural Disaster Without Pat Robertson To Explain … January 14th, 2010 in Affiliates, Blogging, Business | tags: [...]

‘So is Pat Robertson out there actively advocating the brutal murder of thousands if not millions of innocent people, the way these radical muslim clerics do?’
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No. He’s just a vile scumbag that founded a university full of crackpots. The crackpots from that university were heavily recruited by the previous republican administration to staff America’s justice department.

[...] a commenter on Time magazine’s Swampland blog seems to have convinced writer Karen Tumulty that the term is appropriate to apply to Pat [...]

This is low of you, Rustydog.

Fox News had its own “pact with the devil”. True story:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2010/01/12/target-audience/

Pat Robertson’s mention of Haiti being cursed is interesting. It calls to mind the Biblical “curse of Ham” which was used to justify slavery in the US. Ham saw his drunken father naked. Ham covered his father with a blanket. The embarrassed, inebriated, and no longer naked parent placed a curse on Ham and said that Ham’s children and future generations would be servants to Ham’s brothers.
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The aforementioned episode was transformed into a curse from God upon Black people making Blacks slaves to Whites as a part of the natural order of things by pro-Slavery advocates.
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In the case of Haiti, the beheading of Boukman Dutty by the slave-holding French in Haiti was cited as a turning point in the slave rebellion against the French. Dutty was a Voodoo priest who held Voodoo ceremonies. Boukman opposed Slavery. Dutty prayed to the Voodoo Gods for victory over the French.The reward for Boukman’s efforts was a beheading by French soldiers. Boukman’s head was paraded in public as a warning.The Haitian rebellion was silenced for a while, but returned with a vengeance.
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The beheading of Boukman is overlooked by Pat Robertson. The meme of a pact with the devil remains.
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There was never a curse from God on Black people. A beheading and not a pact with the devil inflamed the situation in Haiti and led to the defeat of the French.
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God did not support enslavement of Blacks in the US or in Haiti
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SZ:

After reading the bile and venom spewed on this site over conservatives, Palin, Christians, I find your post:

“This is low of you, Rustydog” to be ridiculous and disappointing. Apparently the trolls don’t all appear on the right.

The left condemns belittles, name calls and denigrates but then looking down from their high horse condemn when it is returned in kind.

The folks on the left demonstrate once again they do not possess the fairness or the intellect to be taken seriously. Beck & Palin? Scholars and Statesman compared to you folks.

Do you remember the debates last week apollyon07?
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The points that I made about endemic racism in the GOP and how they are percieved?
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Why is it you are so anxious that people like Pat Robertson not undergo scrutiny?
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Is it because that things like this are to be kept under a rug for the next 35 years, just like they were the last 35?
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You should be at the forefront of the effort to correct these people, apolloyon07.
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My comments are really not directed specifically at you, but all conservatives who dislike being stereotyped as this or that.
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You need to step up and let people like Limbaugh and Robertson know that they are making your efforts to get a conservative message out much harder due to the extremely negative reaction your peers* are generating.
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*They may not be “your” peers, but they are to many others. However, I’m emphasizing the perception!

Is this like the difference between the Tea Party taking up guns to “take back the country” and terrorism?

freeinpa:
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Has it ever occurred to you that this is yet another reinforcing example of my commentary last week on how the GOP and conservatives in general are perceived?
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I’m confused.
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Are we abridging Pat Robertson’s’ first Amendment rights, or are we suppressing the expression of legitimate hate speech?

KT: Thanks and Huzzah. Maybe Stengel could institute this as a company wide policy?

Kudos, trifecta.

This is long overdue. He has hijacked the usual meaning of “christian” in the same way radical muslim clerics hijack the usual meaning of “muslim.”

There’s an interesting history here, by the way. The American pentecostal movement took off after a couple of preachers in the small movement claimed the 1906 San Francisco earthquake was God’s judgment. (See Simon Winchester’s A Crack in the edge of the world)

When I was in school in the ’60s, it was all neatly wrapped up under “Manifest Destiny”, prepackaged to be absorbed without any thought whatsoever…

Rusty?
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Does this mean that God will toast my heart on a stick until it sizzles and pops over an open campfire?
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Oh, wait.
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That was last week…

freeinpa:
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I get that you think my mild criticism of Rustydog for inexplicably calling Tumulty (who is Catholic) a wiccan is inappropriate, but I still don’t understand why from reading your comment.

I generally ignore you Rusty, but every once in a while a person has to stand up for her faith. One of the more despicable assumptions/memes of the right wing is that none of us on the left are religious because we don’t share your views. Though I’ll agree that much of the time I don’t recognize the God you seem to worship.

53

I have no doubt you are confused about this and most things in life.

SZ:

The reason is simple. Most of the folks here are always quick to vilify the right for an comment they may deem untoward. You have always been a more fair and reasonable voice.

As for Rusty, I read his post as another lame attempt at humor. In light of the rest of the name calling and religious bigotry here thismseemed mild in comparison but you chose to single him out.

freeinpa
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The response you desire is the “bipartisan” response that the MSM requests from Democrats in Congress. In essence it means that Democrats bow to the wishes of the GOP. Even Harry Reid has slowly come to realize that his efforts to appeal to Olympia Snowe were futile.
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Those who live in the real world have come to understand that in conversion with many Conservatives you use strong language to counter strong language. You do not give in to threats.
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Those of us on the Christian Left, will turn the other cheek when attacked. We will then turn around and hit you so hard you will wish that you had never been born.
Stop whining about someone responding to a political post in a forceful manner.. Verbal attacks result in verbal attacks as a response.. Pat Robertson’s words are being attacked. Pat Robertson is not Christianity.

Well, freeinpa, perhaps you should explain it then.
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Enlighten me…

rmrd
First “Christian Left” is an oxymoron.

I was not whining but just illustrating once again what lying, hypocritical, bigoted little people the left are.

Let me elaborate freeinpa:
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My confusion stems from your claim that we pay too much attention to this.
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Are you saying that we shouldn’t criticize such hateful speech?
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And if so, why?

LOL!
::wipes coffee from screen::
The mind reels!

53

By all means continue to respond in YOUR enlightened way.

I am having trouble locating the lefts criticism of Rev Wright’s hate speech or the condemnation of the the Religious Left (yes an oxymoron) for its campaign on censorship.

freeinpa
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The folks who believe in the curse of Ham and the curse on Haiti are part of the religious. Right. that to me is a grouping of un-Christian people.. The old fire and brimstone crowd. It took the Southern Baptists 30 years to admit they were wrong in opposing Civil Rights in the US. Robertson and his ilk were not overly concerned about apartheid in South Africa.
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I saw more concern about poverty and less concern about acquiring Rolexes (see Joel Osteen et al) in the church where I grew up. The Christian Right were the group that felt justified by their faith in suppressing my rights.
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I see a great deal of “fire and brimstone” on the so-called religious Right and very little about “The Good News” that I find in the Christian Left.
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We’re mobilizing to aid churches in Haiti as I type. No longer will people accept the Christianists as representing Christianity.

rmrd:

You condemn the Christian right for social trnasgressions while the left uses religion as a McDonalds menu believing that religious doctrine is fluid and changes to suit the social norms they see as proper. That is not religion.

freeinpa
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That’s your made up version of the Christian Left.
MLK would be speaking against the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. He would challenge the US to provide more care for the poor. The idea of families going into poverty because of health problems would have been labeled unjust.
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You turn your eyes away from the Right’s “social transgressions” because it is uncomfortable. You imply that the Christian Left does not call for personal responsibility. That is a lie. read Martin Luther King Jr. Read Jesse Jackson. Jesse Jackson was the host for the event where Bill Cosby became known for speaking the the African-American community about personal responsibility. Rev. Jackson has subsequently invited Bill Cosby on stage to give other lectures about the same issue.
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Al Sharpton has criticized hardcore rappers for the degradation of women in their lyrics.
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You speak from ignorance and align yourself with bigots.

Christian Left” is an oxymoron
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I’m curious, freeper: what gives you the right to decide what my, or someone else’s religion, is or is not?

rmrd

“Christian Left does not call for personal responsibility.”

They call for it but never follow it. Any perceived transgression by whites and Rev. Jesse and Rev Al are marching, boycotting and extorting money from them. The rap lyrics continue and Al is silent.

If there is a microphone and TV crew around Rev Al and Rev Jesse are there. After the limelight dies so does the effort.

Bill Cosby spoke was needed to be said. His efforts are to be commended. And MLK would be fighting for help for the poor and better opportunities. Jesse and Al fight for equal outcome.There is a difference which has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

freeinpa
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.Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson appear on your TV screen because they are in the Rolodex of MSM including Fox. You have no idea wat they do when you don’t see them Yes, the rap lyrics that degrade women continue. No Rev Sharpton has not been silent. One rap artist, David Banner singled out Rev Sharpton for ridiicle in one of his songs because Sharpton objected to what David Banner and others have said about women. You have no clue what goes on in the African-American community. Again you expose your ignorance.
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There are other religious voices like Rev Eddie Glaude Jr., but you don’t see Glaude on MSM because, he is not as flamboyant
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Bill Cosby could give his message to the White community, insurance executives, and bankers on Wall Street. Most out of wedlock births occur in the White community. Wall Street bankers who lose money and want bonuses are just as greed obsessed as any gold-chain wearing hardcore rapper..
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You are not qualified to speak about the African-American community.

[...] 14, 2010 · Leave a Comment There’s a lot to say about what Radical Cleric and All Around Terrible Person Pat Robertson said about Haiti. It was vile. It was stupid. It was [...]

rmrd:

Yes, David Banner that rap mogul. His next song will go aluminum. I repeat, if Rev Al thought there was a gain usually financial for him. He would still be protesting and trying to financially ruining his target.

And yes I do not know what Al and Jesse do when they are promoting themselves. They contribute nothing to the issues that matter.

The rest of your tirade shows how little you know of what is happening. You have the same factless view of race problems. Below are two links that contradict you “white out of wedlock” theory.

You also know nothing about me or what I do. I spend my own time (and money) helping minorities. Being a father figure, giving them financial help and support and keeping them out of gangs.. I have helped place over 50 kids in colleges they might never have seen. All with my own time and money. Not governments. I tire of those like you that continue to support the race industry and do nothing to help those who need help. You only compound the racism with your idiotic uninformed views. You are right I know nothing of that Black Community.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/04/08/out.of.wedlock.births/index.html#cnnSTCOther1

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_07.pdf

freeinpa.
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We only know you by your posts. I do not believe that you really help those you claim to aid. You can claim anything. Your posts speak of bigotry and condescension.
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You have no idea of what I do in the community. You may never have heard of the 100 Black Men. We pride ourselves on personal responsibility and community action. Our national chairman, Arthur Dotson, was the opening speaker at the Democratic Presidential debate in Nevada. You have no idea of how many families I have adopted and provided aid for. You have no idea how many families I helped feed.
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You have no idea of how much additional aid I gave over the Christmas and Thanksgiving holidays. You are unaware that I am a Kiwanian, an organization that was formed to aid children. You are a bigot. You are certain that you are superior. You are not.
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You lash out against those on the Left while you wallow in the racism on the Right. You are clueless

rmrd
“Your posts speak of bigotry and condescension.”

And yours speaks of arrogance and a racist beleif that if someone diagrees they are bigoted because only you know.

You have no idea about me but are convinced in your opinion while at the same time you wish to chastise me for not knowing what you do.

I know what a Kiwanian is, as I began as a Key CLub member in high school then joined them after graduation.

You lash out at teh right for whatyou pereive as racism and yet follow blindly the left they over 40 years has doen little to actaully help relieve problems.

You are worse than cluless you are pathetic.

freeinpa.
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You said that the Christian Left was an oxymoron. You said that I did nothing in the African-American community. you sir set the criteria for the discussion. Now you claim to be the great Bwana.i simply do not believe that a person who uses the tone you have actually cares about minority children.
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I classified you after you ridiculed my religious belief.

freeinpa
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My church has provided meals for the hungry, built housing for the elderly down the block from the church, provided scholarships, etc..I take my religion seriously.
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The parishioners to a man and woman believe that George W Bush was an idiot,and that the GOP is an impediment to racial progress
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.My church works with churches of all ethnic backgrounds throughout the city and state. We are a proud, deeply religious institution.
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Your attack on my church makes you the one who is truly bigoted and pathetic. You are rigid. and trapped in concrete thought.

freeinpa
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See responses 27 and 28

rmrd: I admire your fortitude, resilience, and persistence. Unfortunately, you are dealing with, as Rep. Barney Frank so aptly put it, a dining room table…

Yes the same know it all arrogant attitude that Barney Frank portrays. And anyone who disagrees is a racist, homophobe and an idiot.

Yes a truly enlightened argument. And yet you accuse me of being rigid andd trapped in concrete thought. BUt at least its a thought and not a knee-jerk reaction that is the typical response from the left.

kbanginmotown.
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I realize that freeinpa will excuse away Conservative faults and dismiss positive things on the Left. However, I could not let his attack on my faith go unanswered.
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freeinpa harbors the belief that out of wedlock children create poverty, but cannot fathom that poverty creates out of wedlock children. The number of out of wedlok births has decreased, but the number of births among married African-American women has fallen more steeply.
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If African-American women were looking for a paycheck by having tons of out of wedlock kids, the states with the highest welfare payout should have the highest out of wedlock birth rate. But it is low welfare check payment state Mississippi that has the highest Black out of wedlock in the country. It also has a high poverty rate.

“The number of out of wedlok births has decreased, but the number of births among married African-American women has fallen more steeply.”

You keep repeating these falsehoods. I sent you links from the Census Bureau and other studies that contradict your claims that births out of wedlock are higher in whites and falling in minorities. Once again you show you know little. Repeating the lie doesn’t change the fact.

I never once said African-Americans women were looking for a paycheck by having children out of wedlock. The is an assumption you make. Again proving you know little of what you speak and nothing about me.

But let’s follow your ill-conceived logic (logic may be a stretch). If whites have the highest rate of births out of wedlock, that would imply they have the highest rate of poverty. If you believe in MLK’s principles people should not be judged by the color of their skin. Then programs like affirmative action and preferential admission treatment to colleges would be wrong and the over-riding factor in those decisions would be poverty and not race. Would you not agree?

Here is a link from a black minister who dismisses your arguments and agrees that Rev Al and Rev Jesse and the left are impediments to the progress of blacks. Now you can call him names and dismiss him with empty fact-devoid rhetoric.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/harry_reid_liberalism_race.html

[...] liked the exchange about Robertson on Time correspondent  Karen Tumulty’s blog. A Tumulty reader asked: why don’t journalists, in citing Robertson, label him a “radical [...]

[...] a commenter on Time magazine’s Swampland blog seems to have convinced writer Karen Tumulty [...]