California Bust

Well are you going to finish this post by telling us why we shouldn’t hold our breath or are you going to put the blame where it belongs. Considering that the media is back at their old tricks again, perhaps you should just say it Joe. The reason why we won’t have that conversation is because the media is going to make sure we remain distracted on the silliness and never tell the truth about what the Republican leadership has done and how Democrats, while problematic, have paid a heavy price for trying to be a bit more realistic about our finances. How else do you think they got the label tax and spend. We know the GOP are spenders, what was it that Reagan said, “the deficit is big enough to take care of itself?” If the media wasn’t so busy with its made up narrative and carrying propaganda for the GOP just maybe we’d have a shot. Unfortunately, we’re at a tipping point and their antics are not only turning out to be predictable, it is going to be the reason our country falls short.

“Over the past 30 years, Republicans fed the delusions that you can have low taxes and world-class public services, and Democrats acquiesced in it.”

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And, you forgot to add Joe, that the Democrats refuse to allow cuts in social welfare programs, with the only exception to cut Medicare to Seniors in the Health Care Reform bill.
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Of course Democrats do not care if the cuts are to non-supporters of their base. Seniors know who is on their side and who isn’t. Democrats want to put Grandma to death. Screw the Senors is the new Democrat Party meme. Let her die and DIE QUICKLY!!
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Unless you are a big Labor Union, ACORN, welfare Blacks or Trial Lawyers Association, then forget it.

Don’t forget the vast Prison Industrial Complex and the broader problems of governing by ballot initiative. Prop 13′s two-thirds majority requirement to pass a budget also gives the Republican fringe a veto, in a state where gerrymandering assures that ideologues win primaries. (Schwarzenegger’s proposition to change redistricting went down with all the others he proposed after his popularity had crashed. Nothing I ever vote for in California wins.)

I’ve gotten into plenty of discussions with people who think that California has high property taxes, but as a percentage of home value the effective average tax rate is 36th in the nation (0.61%). And the low-ish tax rate just helps to raise property prices.

Sigh……

http://xlterrestrials.org/plog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/pie2.jpg

Feel free to blame social welfare programs Rusty. If it makes you feel better knowing that anti-tax rhetoric has led directly to the decimation of essential state services.

Blaming the poor just makes it all better eh?

I have to agree with your assessment. The massive prison system in California is a huge weight upon the state. Prop 13 is a noose around the legislature’s neck. Until these problems are rectified, things are unlikely to improve.
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Also, don’t forget about California’s over-reliance on the capital gains tax which leads to vast swings in the flow of tax revenue. When the internet bubble burst in 2000, so did California’s budget.

://2007-08.archives.ebudget.ca.gov/BudgetSummary/images/FG-SUM-02C.gif

http://2007-08.archives.ebudget.ca.gov/BudgetSummary/images/FG-SUM-01C.gif

What is about conservatives that they blame everything on liberals? It just doesn’t work anymore. Giuliani and Matlin learned this recently the hard way by lying about ‘no attacks on US soil during Bush’s term’. Will has already tarnished his rep with the false global cooling nonsense. Conservatives are in such a moral and ethical mess these days, they have no alternative but to attack the good guys who are actually trying to make things better and not just for the rich this time.

And JK, you’re gratuitous ‘both sides are wrong’ swipe at the Teacher’s Union actually detracts from the effectivness of your post….

Joe as long as I can watch the Sunday shows and someone like George Stephanopolis can have a Liz Cheney spew her ridiculous lies, his apology for letting Guiliiani’s lies pass mean absolutely nothing. The problem is that journalism has degenerated into an exercise of either a battle between the most outrageous pundits or solely focused on one of two narratives, taking a guy down whose gotten to big for his britches (as is currently the case with the media and Obama) and a phoenix rising from the ashes (which is how they are desperately trying to portray Republicans even though the numbers don’t support the assertion). If the media is going to insist on creating these narratives even when they are not occurring naturally, they are doing such a disservice to our nation.
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I remember the mea culpas after being forced to acknowledge that they let the much of the march to war get by without scrutiny, but what has changed, you are now letting the GOP revise history, reposition the political landscape and pretend that they have solutions where only proof of the problems they’ve caused exist. Please convince your brethren that the country desperately needs to do something right here if we’re going to survive. The media has to do their part, we can’t just call on citizens to act like grown-ups, the media has to act like thinking adults as well. So give us a break go back and pick up their mantle of watch dog and leave the scandals and shiny objects to the National Inquirer and Entertainment Tonight.

Over the past 30 years, Republicans fed the delusions that you can have low taxes and world-class public services, and Democrats acquiesced in it.
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Here’s an equivalency I can entertain.

Ronald Reagan’s gift that keeps on giving. Some people think I should get over his “Black Welfare Queen” reference, because he supposedly he had regrets that people saw him as racist. But you know, if it wasn’t for that untrue, but politically expedient reference we wouldn’t still have an entire belief system built upon the mythology that if we just rid ourselves of the poor and minorities everything would be right as rain — hence we’d be fine in real America. Funny, whenever the media talks about Reagan’s legacy, this is ever mentioned.

“How on earth Will can write a column about the problems in California without even mentioning Proposition 13–the 1978 ballot measure that severely limited local property taxes–is beyond me.”
Really? Will would have a difficult time finishing a column without recourse to omissions, distortions and lies.

I do wish Will would focus on the positive — why can’t he write a column about the vibrant economy of a conservative paradise like Alabama or Mississippi?

JK: I regret that you had to balance your critique of “the bleakness of the landscape” (George Will) with a swipe at Labour.” A plague on both your houses “is an easy narrative.

Meanwhile on CNN State of the Nation a world-exclusive: John McCain and Joe Lieberman who have not been on teevee for years have re-appeared. Praise the Lord!

George Will is mendacious and ideologically corrupt? OMG!

Yeah and even he can’t stomach Liz Cheney’s crap.

Oh the evil teacher’s union. They want reasonable class sizes, they don’t want people like you Joe deciding their merit as teachers, they want a living wage (try living in San Francisco on a teacher’s salary), they want sufficient supplies for their students so they don’t have to buy so many with their own money, they would like to see schools supported equally regardless of the their geographic location. They are against vouchers. Well how many private schools are available for voucher use? Can you guarantee separation of church and state? Where is the actual proof that private schools are better? Many exclude the most difficult of students. They also grossly underpay their staffs. Of course, most of them are not unionized. Teachers want to save their pensions. Many would like to see the school year extended. All would like more participation by parents.
I taught school. My biggest difficulty was not the students but the either uninvolved or overinvolved parents.
I live in California and have witnessed the hypocrisy of that “he man” Ahnold. He vowed to not take money from special interests. He defined those interests as unions and public advocacy groups. But, boy howdy, he sure liked the money from business and the rich.
He did nothing to change the continuing irrelevancy of the whacko Republican party in California. He did fill a pot hole once. Well actually the pot hole was dug up so he could have a presseer showing him fill it.

George Will’s a dishonest dirtbag. I can’t believe anybody still takes him seriously.

My amazement of liberals that believe that revenues are an unlimted upward number. They never tire of spending someone else’s money. During the Iraq war they wanted a time frame to accomplish a goal with a date certain. Never in any liberal spending are goals and responsibilities ever considered. The epic failures of their pathetic giveaways is that they are underfunded.

One of hte dirty little secrets never mentioned through liberal lips is that spending for education has had a growth path that nears what has been spent on HC. And while folks here will vent that we are below (pick your favorite socialist country) in some health care results the longevity of US citizenry has increased. The same can not be said of our educational system. By most measurements, the billions and billions have gone down a rat hole with no increase in result other than increased costs. I wonder if folks here will look to see where we rank in math and science with the rest of the world. Pete Rose has a better odds of being elected to the Hall of Fame than any school district has of firing any teacher.

The Prop 13 was a taxpayer revolt against clueless politicians that JK favors. They tired of a 70% marginal tax rate plus a rising Medicare and medicaid tax along with rising state and local taxes. How despicable of them not to want to pay out 90% of their hard earned money to idiot liberal politicians. Prop 13 was also a safeguard for CA residents not to be forced to sell their rapidly appreciating houses just to fund liberal policies.

Check out the pension funds that are bankrupting states, cities and municipalities. The argument was they had lower slaaries and consequently benefits had to be higher. That has not been the case. With nominal service and a huge salary typically suppoorted int he last years by an enormous amount of overtime, government workers retire with 85% of that bloated salary..

Yes and Califormia has a crowded penal system. Here is a clue they have a bloated criminal element and in the case of Califormia built heavily on an illegal immigrant population. But of course that’s racist to tell that bit of truth.

JK wants an honest discussion on revenues. In typical liberal fashion he makes no mention of a discussion about spending. There never is a program that is unnecessary or wasteful- it just needs more money.

Or maybe you can check out WV which has a high poverty rate and pathetic education results despite Sen Byrd appropriating enough money to rebuild the entire state several times over. Reason no one held accountable for a result.

It is human nature for people to say yes can we have low cost education, tons of services and someone else will pay for it. They become less so agreeablew when they finally figure out the “someone else” is them.

There is a growing segment of people; conservative and moderates alike that is saying enough is enough. They are snidely referred to as tea baggers by the obnoxious liberal groups who justifiably can be referred to as douche baggers.

Dirks Joe has maybe three tricks in his bag.
1) The military is always right.
2) Questioning #1 will have Joe questioning your seriousness.
3) Unions are bad-worst of all educators.

If California wants to know how to effectively run a large state, they should look to Texas.
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When I was younger and didn’t fully understand how the Texas government worked, I was surprised to discover that our legislature only meets once every two years. I asked the guy who told me that why that is, and he said, “to minimize the damage they can do.” And that’s really the right attitude to have these days.

Oh, by the way Joe, please think about this:
You are sequestered with 35 twelve year olds for hours week after week. You are subject to criticism daily: They teach sex, they teach evolution, they teach homosexuality, they don’t teach math, they don’t teach grammar, they don’t teach geography, they don’t encourage good nutrition and exercise, they don’t lead prayer in school, they don’t teach family values, ethics and how to brush their teeth.
Now take all these expectations and apply them to yourself, society and all parents.
I have been out of the profession a long time. I knew bad teachers. And yes they can be fired. It takes an involved principal to mentor and if not successful to remove that teacher. Tenure is a fallacy. Unions will defend a teacher but if the principal has done his job, he/she will be able to prevail.
Teachers are woefully underpaid and unappreciated.
Joe, pundits are woefully overpaid and overappreciated.

If teachers were somehow truly paid based off of quality of performance, some would get paid 10,000 a year and others would get 500,000 a year.

Free: How did the Republican Congress and administration fund the wars in Afghanastan and Iraq? Where were those funds included in the budget?
What was the oversight by both in regards to millions and millions lost through corruption an negligence in those wars?

Last I checked providing for defense was actually a constitutional duty of the federal government. A large majority of the federal budget is not. Although liberals do seem to have a different constitution these days.

apolly: I have worked in a number of jobs where pay was based on merit. There were set numbers to meet and objective goals.
Tell me who would judge teachers. Their principal. As I said earlier, they already have the ability to remove poor teachers. They don’t do a very good job at that.
How would you judge teachers in entirely different venues? Compare a teacher who works in a wealthy suburban school with involved parents, a great campus, lots of extracurricular activity, plenty of counselors, teachers and auxillary staff with the opposite: A teacher that works in a poor innercity school with little parent involvement, kids from impoverished homes, a delapidated campus, little money for extracurricular activity and support staff. Who do you suppose will have better outcomes? Judge the teacher, who by law, has to main stream children with learning difficulties and physical difficulties.
Is testing going to catch all the nuances that impact the learning curve in a classroom?
How would you judge?

Wait a minute! I thought the muscle-brained (Republican) action star was going to come in, knock some heads together and fix everything. Cal-eee-forn-ia has exactly the government situation it deserves.

free: does that mean the cost of the war should not be included in the budget and that corruption and waste are ok? The constitution also states that congress is the institution who has the right to declare war. We have managed to avoid that little requirement since WWII.

Joe, why don’t we pay villagers, bobbleheads, pundits, and those involved in the echo chamber based on their accuracy? Let’s fire those who are incorrect or mislead. Can I be on the merit pay committee?

Why can’t we get over the polarization and do what is good for the country? We are all part of the problem and by putting politics and re-election fears aside we all be part of the solution.

Joe: Mr. Will also needs to remember what the Enron manipulations and deregulation did to my state. Bush and Ahnold were big buddies of the Enron bunch.

“Ahnold (was a) big budd(y) of the Enron bunch”
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apr2563, that’s putting it mildly. Did you see The Smartest Guys in the Room?
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Taking out Gray Davis and installing Arnie was one of the goals/results of the manipulations.

Sure did see the Smartest Guys in the Room. Have the DVD. Everyone who has faith in unfettered capitalism should watch it. I lived here in California during the recall and election of Ahnold. It was a study in electoral policy gone crazy. The funniest event was watching Darrell Issa cry. He had helped fund, along with big money interests, the recall of Gray Davis. Then when he ran for and could not gain traction, he cried so seriously, as he left the field. Of course, we had about 40 other candidates including a stripper and Gary Coleman. On reflection, they might have been an improvement over Ahnold.

“The funniest event was watching Darrell Issa cry. He had helped fund, along with big money interests, the recall of Gray Davis.”
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Now THAT is one of my favorite stories. I have told it many times.
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There are plenty of congress people (from both sides) that bug me but few things are more enjoyable than watching Issa question a witness.
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Even if he has just 5 minutes his last words are almost always “I yield back the balance of my time”

That’s a fine sentiment in theory, but when you have one side that will not engage in discourse, will not adhere to one set of objective facts and will not put character or country before political gain, all it’s ever going to be is a sentiment. Too often in this kind of situation Liberal try to be the adult and are the first ones to reach out and take the high road and every time we do we get slammed for our trouble. In the political world Republicans only use themes like moral hazards, character matters, and country first as a means to an end not values to live by.

When he is on Bill Maher he comes accross as a reasonable moderate.
Watch him in committee and he is one of the most vicious of questioners. He was a real flame thrower during the Bush years, trying to annihilate any critic of that administration.
I find it ironic he is leading the charge on Geitner. I want to get to the truth on AIG but want it discovered by someone who will use the facts truthfully. Issa is not the guy.
He is a real showboater. Why does a guy who already has millions want to be a rep? He, like other Republicans has no positive agenda. Since he can’t get elected governor, I guess his ego has to settle for that.

I haven’t seen him on Maher-I sort of grew tired of that show-but Issa does try to wear the “reasonable” face most of the time.
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Affect goes a long way-observe Jay Newton Small’s admiration of Lindsay Graham’s “moderate” reputation. Actions and words are secondary to tone.
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Completely agree with you on the Geitner stuff. Both the importance of finding the truth and that Issa isn’t up to the job.
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It’s a side issue but I wonder who has been feeding Issa the e-mails.

apr2563

No all spending should be included in the budget. I eagerly await the bill that should come out of Congress any day now placing the war spending on the budget as I await all waste and corruption to be eliminated as well since we are now draining the swamp.

I suggest you ask some of the liberals in Congress why we have not had them declare war since WWII since demos have controlled one or both haouses for a majority of that time.

Quite frankly that is a crock. How many teachers are dismissed? 10% 1%?? I would bet it is under 1%. Principals who do take steps to fire are harrassed by the union and it ends up costing the school district Thousands$$$. Money taken directly out of education. The teachers union fights any accountability.

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And “You are sequestered with 35 twelve year olds for hours week after week. You are subject to criticism daily: They teach sex, they teach evolution, they teach homosexuality, they don’t teach math, they don’t teach grammar, they don’t teach geography, they don’t encourage good nutrition and exercise, they don’t lead prayer in school, they don’t teach family values, ethics and how to brush their teeth.”

All brought to you by the teachers union and the criticism is well deserved in more than a minority of instances. They will strike over raising their co-pay from $1 to $2 but never when it involves the principles of teaching.

There are many good teachers however by and large what has become of the education system and the curriculum lies squarely with the teachers union and their liberal advocates.

Free: Tenure could be restructured. But, keep in mind who is evaluating teachers. Often an uninvolved principal. Few speak to the middle management overhead, unprofitable athletic programs and other drains on school budgets. The main concern always seems to be teachers.
Tenure can save a teacher from unjustified censure and dismissal. I had a friend whose child came home saying his teacher was drawing naked people on the blackboard. Well, it was actually stick people. His mother was ready to have the teacher dismissed. I lived in a small town where rumors have taken down the best.
Teachers do strike for better pay. They are required to have, in most states, six years of education, and to participate in post graduate work. Pay is an issue.
They also strike about classroom size, class resources, support staff, and campus conditions.
You have such a bias about unions. We could go back to the days when the teacher was a spinster lady who lived in a rented room, was not allowed male companionship, and could be removed for any reason.
Teachers unions fought to bring that spinster lady out of her rented room. You no longer have to quit teaching if you become pregnant (true not so long ago), teachers have health benefits, you can go out for a drink in the town you live in (not so long ago you could not), you can speak out about safety, work and learning conditions without fear.
Why is it union haters all want to go back to those benevolent days when workers had no power or representation?
Free you can make all of the generalizations about the educations system you want but please bring facts.

Free,

If paying for Bush’s war doesn’t have to be budgeted,. where do you want the money to come from. It comes from taxes that people have to pay and the taxes go into a pool that everything SHOULD come out of. You are suggesting that the Chinese credit card is acceptable? What a joke!

Either budget everything or let’s pretend this is Somalia. We elect those fools to do their jobs and it is time for them to earn their exalted pay or go home. If they don’t need to budget, then why do we need them there at all.

Free, I agree Dems should demand war be declared by congress if we are going to fund one. I agree we should demand funding for the wars be included in the budget. Some Dems have asked for this (Sanders, Feingold, etc). However, they are stopped by reactionary Dems like Nelson and Lieberman from the Lieberman party, and by enough Reps that any hope for this would insure a filabuster. I think a serious investigation of the corruption, illegal contracts, and waste should be done. During WWII, investigations were carried out to prevent profiteering from the war. This was not considered unamerican. Cheney would immediately yell traitors if a real investigation was done.

Maher has been difficult to watch. He rants too much about the bad side effects of vaccinations, his vegan life style, and the evils of medication. One of his last shows this season, Alex Baldwin finally spoke up to him and reminded him why the panel was there.
Geitner, I believe, is referencing the e-mails Bloomberg asked for. I would hope the committee would supoena all the e-mails from both the Feds and SEC…from Bush time to Obama time.
Issa must feel this gets him some juice with the baggers or he wouldn’t be doing it.

http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/pip/califpip.pdf

Read the numbers on this website from the state. Whites and Hispanics have the highest numbers in Welfare. Not Blacks. The media shows what they want to make you believe Blacks receive the most when in reality, most of them work.

“Free you can make all of the generalizations about the educations system you want but please bring facts.”

And you can bring all of the anecdotal excuses as to why teachers unions are necessary but they do not ever address accountability by teachers.

The uninvolved principal is typically a washed up teacher as is the middle management jobs. Other drains on the budgets are the odes to diversity, non-traditional life styles among political issues having nothing to do with reading, writing and arithmetic.

Why are teachers any different than any professional who is an employee at will who can be dismissed or censured for say unjustified accusations of sexism or racism or any other accusations from any underling?

The post graduate work is often paid by the school district and upon completion translates in to a higher salary, not higher results in the classroom. Any strike over class size support staff etc usually is a fight from having teachers work 8 hiours a day.

In the early to mid 1900′s unions served a purpose. They are now instruments to reduce productivity and to push political agendas. Private and parochial schools, home schooled all manage to produce better results with fractions of the assets.

Since you love anecdotal examples, I live in a school district where the AVERAGE teacher salary is now $96,000 for 9 months of “work”. As part of the “rich curriculum” my child saw Al Gore’s “Inconvenient Truth” 4 times in the last 2 years in US History and World LIterature. . No Shakespeare, Chaucer, no Constitution or Bill of Rights. The Biology teacher made them watch Obama’s Inauguration. SAT scores have fallen for the past 5 years. I re-graded one my child’s quizes because the teacher had 4 wrong answers (A teacher with 12 years experience). The teacher was not amused when I told her she needed to go to summer school. Spare me the poor abused teaching profession excuses. I

People against unions do not want to go back to days you still throw up as the reasons we need unions. We want accountability. Here is a fact for you. Unions demands have run rough-shod over the airline, steel and auto industries. They have been or are essentially bankrupt! Our educational system is as well.

apr2563

As usual your investigation of corruption begins and ends with the defense department. Of course the social seciurity, medicare, medicaid, HUD, Education, Commerce and about 100 other useless departments are no doubt spotless. But then unemployment would rise to what 25-30% if they fired all the corrupt folks in the government. But just like we recently observed in Baltimore, a corrupt Democratic Mayor caught stealing and is indicted resigns with FULL PENSION benefits.

But your right let’s cripple our military again like Jimmy and have us become the laughingstock of the world again. Actually toolate Obama has managed to duplicate that feat.

apr2563, Re: 16.6
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War profiteering occurred in WWII despite the Trading with the Enemy Act. You can read more about it here:
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Preface of book:
http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Trading%20With%20The%20Enemy.html
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Amazon book profile:
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http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Enemy-Charles-Higham/dp/044019055X

I live here in California.

May be apportioning blame to various parties is the first step. But my problem is ‘how the fixing of California will happen’? We also know what needs to happen:
- repeal Proposition 13
- reduce drastically expenditure, especially Public Employees and associated extreme Labor pandering which goes in California
- remove term limits
- rectify gerrymandering of electoral districts
- remove 2/3 requirement for budget passing and
- restrict or repeal ‘proposition’ business.

Question – how will all this happen? The ongoing tragedy of California is generally most people know the solution and most agree for large part; but we do not have basic politics / political movement / vehicle to execute on.

It is like some of perpetual disaster ride in which we are locked and there is no way out until we totally destruct ourselves here in CA.

Really well said.

George Will has a column today

Really, just these six words say it all. Dishonesty, scientific illiteracy, inability to offer coherent analysis without slipping into wingnut territory.. another day, another George Will column.

That’s the Third Way right there.
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Now ask yourself “How would a Democrat who hated labor get elected to national office? How do Third Way Democrats get elected, anyway?“

“just these six words say it all. Dishonesty, scientific illiteracy, inability to offer coherent analysis without slipping into wingnut territory.. another day, another George Will column.”

Seems you are a prime example of the failed teachers unions. DId you funk Math or ENglih or both?

Freepie, I suggest you go back, count how many words there are in “George (1) Will(2) has (3) a (4)column (5)today (6) ” and then hang yourself. Stupidity like yours deserves only contempt and a quick burial in the nearest cess-pit. I’ve even kindly put in the numbers 1-6 to help your mathematically challenged brain. Incidentally, you shoudn’t have capitalized math, and you can’t apparently spell English. But you are a GOP troll, so I am hardly surprised by your cretinosity. Now, don’t you have a book to write for Sarah Palin? Remember to use the big crayons.

apr- I fully realize the difficulty of effectively judging teachers (that’s why I said “somehow”). I agree with the idea of merit pay in principle, I just don’t see a way to do it that doesn’t pit teachers against each other and discourage them from working in poor school districts.
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Still though, you can’t say that all teachers are pulling their weight. Some have to work harder than others because of the slackers, just like any other job.

And my thoughts on teacher’s unions can be summed up with a memorable quote from Seinfeld:
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George: “Ohhh those unions…..”

Thanks die..Appear to be interesting books. Of course their was profeteering before (Bush family) during, and after the war. At least there was an attempt to shine some light on it.
As I said, I would like to see investigations into our current corruption and profiteering.
Free, I think these investigations should have priority because peoples lives depend on it.

Free: I see that we no longer need unions. Benevolent free enterprize will always be fair and equitable. Companies need no regulations. Wall Street will look after Main Street. Kindness will flow from the banking industry and insurance industry. Wages will be fair. Salaries and bonuses for upper management will be reality based. Scrooge will tell Bob Cratchet to put another lump of coal on the fire. He will not need any lessons in compassion.
Median teacher salary is $40000. It is about $10000 less for charter school teachers. You must live a very affluent school district.
Also, not many schools pay for extended education unless it is a required course. My cousin was paid to take a course in teaching blind students since she was to have a sight impaired student mainstreamed into her class. I thought that was fair.
You seem to be getting your conception of what is taught in schools on a regular basis from right wing troglydites. Most teachers are unfortunately having to teach to tests required by No Child Left Behind.

apr2563

Throwing darts at the banking and insurance idustries makes a great sound bite but you managed to not address how the auto, steel, airline and teachers unions have ar are bankrupting their industries and by the way became the main reason we have little in the way of a manufacturing base.

Germany finally came to the realization in the 1990s after they lacked Europe economically for years by allowing a second (non-union) set of wages for its luxury auto, machine and instrument industries. Now in this bad economic times they have rebounded faster than the US.

“Most teachers are unfortunately having to teach to tests required by No Child Left Behind.”

Yes and they are failing miserably. Ignore those and follow the other standardized tests- flat to falling despite the waterfall of money. The only benchmark that is rising is the level of excuses that liberals always manage for it ineptly run programs.

Maybe you should get your information from from other than the Teachers Union and the DNC

Stick to politics, freep, and leave the English language alone. There’s nothing wrong with the language you quote. I’d replace the ellipsis with a dash, but that’s a matter of taste, of style. Otherwise, just fine.
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Your own comment is also good informal English (misspellings aside — I mean, “funk”?). But in a more formal environment you could be chided for omitting the subject of the first sentence — “It.” (“You” is the subject of a dependent clause within the sentence, not of the sentence itself.) Your entire first sentence is ambiguous if you read it closely: How can one person be an example of multiple unions? Yes, we know what you meant. But you didn’t exactly say it, did you?
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I could continue to nitpick your own prose further by sampling other postings, but in fact you write very good informal English, and it’s not as if we’re getting paid or edited. Still, I wonder why you don’t recognize good English when you encounter it from others.
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I’m neither a teacher nor a professional writer. But I do a lot of writing as part of my profession, and I am continually astonished at the unreasoned criticism that some people offer of other people’s writing. Don’t join their club.
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And finally, if your intent was to criticize the author’s views rather than his prose, you really did “funk.”

“Really, just these six words say it all. Dishonesty, scientific illiteracy, inability to offer coherent analysis without slipping into wingnut territory.. another day, another George Will column”

Arrogance and name-calling just make my point. You first sentence of “just these 6 words… is followed by a sentence with (the typical name calling) with more than six words. And your superior intelligence is unable to distinguish between typos and the inability to spell.

Back to your meds.

Arnold may have an R in front of his name but he is as liberal as they come. Do not for a minute try to paint him as a conservative. California is prime example of how the cancer of liberalism destroys. California is such a beautiful state, abounding in every natural resource imaginable. It should be head and shoulders above the rest of the country in every way. Instead it has the dubious honor of becoming the first failed state. Anything goes in California. A typical example that when anything goes everything goes.

junius. I find that George Will is an honest reporter who supplies facts when he writes an article. This compares to liberal reporters such as JK who twist facts to meet their political agenda. Most liberal reporters are so biased that they seldom ever tell the truth in their articles.
Truth can be so inconvenient.

Considering that CA’s property taxes compare to the national average, it’s beyond me how it can be beyond Mr. Klein that someone might not mention them in an article. It’s beyond me how Mr. Klein thinks having an average property tax rate is somehow “distorting” the budget. It’s beyond me how Mr. Klein can fail to mention all the other tax revenues CA rakes in, which are WAY above he national average:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/15.html

Looks like those wascally Wepubwicans in the minority didn’t keep CA from foisting the country’s heaviest tax burden on their residents with their oh- so-eeeevil prop 13. So why did you fail to mention these crucial facts Mr. Klein? You ridiculously seem to suggest that having an average tax rate in one category is distorting the budget. This assumes of course that Mr. Klein bothered to do the minimum amount of research required for his commentary to be well-informed and that he take off his usual hyperpartisan blinders to put forth a well-considered opinion.

Wishful thinking when it comes to Klein and his devotees.

All this reminds me of Bill Lockyer’s rant against the CA legislature last year.

The thing I liked is that he called the CA Republicans for what they are – Democrat-lite.

You say you don’t know who Bill Lockyer is? That paragon of Republican eeeeeeevil?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Lockyer

Free: Study of history and life experience have informed my facts. We have nonunion car makers in this country. They are failing as well.
Unions fought the passage of free trade agreements. To no avail.
Now free, if you want to go and work in one of those nonunion, lassez faire countries, be my guest. Work for pennies a day. I suggest the Marianas. It is an American protectorate. Through the efforts of Abramhoff, Delay, Nye, and others, we have allowed it to use forced labor, encourage prostitution, and forced abortions so they can put American labels on garments and other products at the behest of benevolent American business.
By the way, teaching to the test has not been successful. I had good teachers and bad when I was in school. I remember some really inspirational teachers. There were good students and bad. I don’t think things have gotten worse since the vaunted “good old days” that most of us experienced.

Junius, talking to an intellectual void like Freepie is scarcely worth the effort. You might as well try and explain basic math and English to the old blind dog pissing on the corner. Just ignore the wretched brute from now on.

[...] chalked up "all that is wrong in California at liberalism’s doorstep," Klein used a January 10 Swampland blog post to slam the columnist for failing to assign any blame on the 1978 property tax-limiting Proposition [...]

Yes, if only it wasn’t for Prop 13. I mean California hasn’t collected anywhere near enough taxes since it was passed. LOL. If only there was no Prop 13 then all of the state lawmakers would be SO much more fiscally sound and California wouldn’t be in this mess. Bwaaahhh!!!!!

Argument 10 years from now: If only we had passed Healthcare Reform that allowed us to raise taxes on employers EVEN MORE then we wouldn’t be in this hole.

While the property tax limitations are a problem that should be addressed (by fixing the inequities of Prop 13 while keeping some of its laudable goals), the primary problems with California’s budget process are the 2/3 vote requirement (also from Prop 13) and the state’s tendency to govern by proposition.
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The 2/3s vote requirement results in both the veto by extremists that you describe, and additionally the frequent blackmailing of the state by right-wingers to get concessions unrelated to the budget process. For example, the last budget was finally passed by acceding to a Republican holdout’s request to change the state’s primary system (to make Republicans more competitive).
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The proposition system has become a means for any well financed special interest group to embed their own legislation in the state constitution — typically by misrepresenting the intent of the legislation or by mixing desirable sounding legislation with hidden goals. Much of the budget is carved up by special interests this way, making reasonable allocation of funds in the budget impossible.
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The last problem is a familiar one. Taxes cannot be raised in California no matter what (although fee increases are tolerated if they only burden the lower and middle classes).
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Unfortunately for the rest of the country, the 2/3s vote veto by right wingers that has devastated California is now effectively a national problem, with any legislation passing through the Senate requiring 60%. If the 60% requirement to pass EVERYTHING continues (combined with the inevitable loss of the Democratic caucus’s super majority ), the country can look to California’s budget process to see it’s own future.

California tried it the republican way. It doesn’t work.
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Just like California, giving republicans full control of the national government in 2000 resulted in their blowing a hole in the budget and pushing the economy close to depression.
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Reaganomics (and Prop 13) was a failure. The more extreme version introduced by Bush Jr with the help of the republican congress was even worse.

grosslican, Free probably will not answer you ignorant comments but I will. You are a perfect example of why debating with an Ultra-liberal is worthless. You brain is fried and incapable of rational thoughts. Just use name calling and change the subject when you are incapable of winning an argument based on facts.

Bobcn1 – When, exactly, did CA try things the Republican way? That’s not a strawman, that’s just a fact free comment. The rest of your argument is a non-sequitur. What few facts you and people like Mr. Klein seem to have a tenuous grasp on are what makes it impossible to take you seriously on an any subject you bumble into.

Anyone who thinks the Republicans have been in charge in California at any point in the past fifty years hasn’t been paying attention. Democrats have controlled the state’s two legislative bodies for as long as I can remember (I’ve lived in California for over sixty years).

When the late power broker Jesse Unruh succeeded in creating a full-time legislature our troubles began. We now have politicians jokeying to have up to 2,400 new bills brought up for vote, with over 1,000 new laws placed on the books every year!

Thanks to the initiative process, all manner of spending programs and funding guarantees have been constitutionally mandated without any practical relationship to the state budget. (Voters in 2008 passed an initiative adding $1billion in new debt as a down payment on a proposed high-speed rail system…while the state’s leadership was trying to decide how to deal with a budget shortfall of over $20billion!) Thanks to these inititives and legislative vote pandering, our state consitution is hundreds of pages long.

I agree Prop. 13 has created problems for revenue generation, but it was because of the exponential growth of tax rates throughout the state that the taxpayers revolted. Republicans didn’t patent the idea you can have all the services without taxation…Democrats are guilty, too (although they typically try to pass their schemes off as taxing the “rich”…until they figure out there aren’t enough of them to foot the bill).

We now find ourselves in a ridiculous situation where all municipalities, mandated by state law to maintain balanced budgets are having their treasuries looted by a state that isn’t required to do the same.

Union power has grown at an alarming rate in the public sector at an inverse proportion to the declining enrollment in private-sector union membership. Union political clout (real and perceived) puts local and state politicians in the position of either toadying to union leadership or risking loss at the polls. (Recent statements indicate the state firefighters union, for example, have allocated over $2,500,000 in political action funding to defeat a ballot measure being considered to reign in pension benefits for new hires.)

California’s woes are many, but conservatism didn’t create them. Misguided liberal commentators like Klein should either confine their comments to Obama worship, or do their homework and admit when those of us from the dark side have a legitimate point.

‘When, exactly, did CA try things the Republican way?’
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1978. I suggest that you educate yourself on what Proposition 13 is, how it works, and how it has affected state budgets since it was passed. That will give you the complete answer to your question.

bahaha at the notion that California being a perpetual disaster of a state is all Arnold’s fault. Arnold is A- not conservative and B- Not even close to the biggest governmental problem there, which is the California State Legislature. That state had boatloads of problems before Arnold arrived, and with such a ludicrously bad state legislature, will continue to have them after he has left.

There are people working to put a citizen initiated Constitutional Convention on the ballot. Go to http://www.repaircalifornia.org to get the info. Many of your proposals are not only valid, but very much in the target range of those behind the CC. Many political insiders on both sides of the aisle oppose this effort…a sure indication to me that it has merit.

‘Anyone who thinks the Republicans have been in charge in California at any point in the past fifty years hasn’t been paying attention. Democrats have controlled the state’s two legislative bodies for as long as I can remember (I’ve lived in California for over sixty years).’
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In a sense you’re correct. It’s true that the legislature has been held by the Democrats for many years. The governorship has changed many times. It’s been mostly in republican hands over the past 30 years. Thanks to Prop. 13 it almost doesn’t matter.
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Due to Prop 13′s 2/3 vote requirement to pass any tax or budget, BOTH parties can claim that they are not responsible for the budget mess. And they’ll both be telling the truth.
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The Democratic legislature passes a budget. They then can’t get 2/3s of the legislature to vote for it. So no budget gets passed. The Democrats say they passed a budget but the republicans blocked it — so it’s not their fault. The republicans say it wasn’t their budget — so it’s not their fault. To make matters worse, the California republicans lately have been punishing members of their party that vote for democratic budgets. In past years the state has routinely been issuing IOUs.
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This scheme leads to a system where democracy no longer applies. The majority can’t rule. Neither can the minority. The legislature can’t get out a budget to go into negotiations with the governor. This past year the governor worked with the legislature on the budget and the right wing of his own party blocked him anyway. Since any budget that gets passed must satisfy holdouts that are by definition extreme (the rightmost 1/3 of the legislature), it winds up being something that neither party wants to take ownership of. Because of the 2/3s requirement no one can be held responsible for the budget — and no one can be elected to fix it.
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Lately, all of the budgets have been passed with concessions that have nothing to do with the budget being awarded to the final holdouts. An example of this blackmail was an agreement to change the way political primaries are held in California (to enhance republican chances) that was promised to one of the final republican holdouts to get his budget vote.
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The 2/3s requirement also plays into the hands of the ‘government is bad’ crowd. A small group of extremists who have no motivation to see government work smoothly can jam up the budget and pay no political price. Instead, they are rewarded for it by their like minded brethren.

‘We also know what needs to happen…’
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That’s a nice list. I’d vote for it. A lot of my moderate-conservative friends would too.
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Unfortunately, it will be difficult to wrest the 2/3 vote veto away from the extremists on the right. It’s all they’ve got to wield power with. If majority rule were to be restored they would become irrelevant.

[...] America Tax cuts pay for themselves and if you have seen one Redwood Tree you have seen them all. looks like people are starting to notice Reagan’s magical thinking doesn’t work: How on [...]

Everything you say is largely true. However, without a 2/3 requirement for tax increases, my fear and that of many other non-extremists like me is that the spendthrifts on the left will run roughshod over the budget process. They have already demonstrated their complete disregard for fiscal prudence and accountability. The system stacks the deck for extremists in both parties. Couple that with the crushing burden of the spending mandates dictated by voter-approved initiatives, you continue to have a fiscal mess…even if there is no gridlock. I feel like Oliver Hardy…”a fine mess.”

Proposition 13′s cuts have virtually nothing to do with the California debacle, and Joe Klein knows it. Property values have skyrocketed over the past thirty years in California and people kept buying homes, triggering ever-higher tax revenues.

The reality is the state has an income taxation formula heavily reliant on taxing the top 1% of the population, which is it’s main source of revenue…when times are good. With the collapse of Wall Street and the economy in general in 2008, that hasn’t worked out so well. In 2008 there was a slight net increase in total personal income within the state. Unfortunately, the top earners earned so much less that the state’s income from personal and business income tax FELL by over 20%.

Isn’t it ironic that every spending proposal launched by Dems in Washington proposes taxing the rich to balance the books? Don’t you suppose the same thing will happen nationally that is happening here in California?

To paraphrase the old Clinton line: It’s the spending, stupid!

We know that the 2/3s requirement has been a disaster. It has to be changed. I understand your unwillingness to give up the 2/3s veto, but it’s killing all of us.
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I’ve seen school funding initiatives go down to defeat in my city for years. They routinely pass with over 60% of the vote, but that is never enough. The schools are falling apart here (literally), and there’s very little we can do about it.
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If either party were able to govern as a majority then the voters would have a choice and could hold them accountable. Although I disagree with you politically (the Democrats have been the party of actual – not just rhetorical – fiscal responsibility for years now) I would be perfectly happy to see your party (or preferably mine ) be allowed to govern using majority rule. It would then give the voters a choice to either reelect them (if they do well) or replace them.
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As things are now no one is responsible, nor is anyone accountable. And there’s nothing the voters can do about it.

‘Couple that with the crushing burden of the spending mandates dictated by voter-approved initiatives, you continue to have a fiscal mess…even if there is no gridlock.’
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Absolutely! What some think is a wonderful example of ‘citizen democracy’ has failed miserably. The frequent misuse of the initiative system is the other reason California has become an ungovernable fiscal disaster.
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I have become a consistent ‘no’ voter on initiatives for years now, and I wish more Californians would as well. I would rather see the legislature and governor govern. I’ve decided that the only initiative I will vote ‘yes’ on is one that tightens up the initiative process itself.

While the 2/3 rule has been difficult, it isn’t at the local level where it is inflicting as much pain. I worked for and helped pass a school bond initiative in my city that had support of over 70% of voters. It wasn’t easy, but we did it. Since that time, there has been a change in the law that allows a lower supermajority vote for school bonds in California and many have been approved.

The 2/3 I’m worried about is the one imposed on the state budget. You may think the Dems are the party of fiscal responsibility, but, when push comes to shove, there isn’t a spending bill they don’t like. You can’t tell me we can continue to fund every social program that comes down the pike and not raise taxes. Not every social ill can or should be fixed by government intervention. Legislation is passed without any concern over where the money will come from.

I won’t go into a tirade over the teacher’s or prison guard’s unions, but you have to admit their (and other public employee groups) pension liabilities are another elephant in the room. I’m all for fair compensation, but when the average worker has to make do on Social Security checks and depleted 401k accounts to eke out a meager retirement, the benefits public employees receive sure seem excessive. I know of one retiring university dean who will actually make more money in retirement than they made when working!

‘I won’t go into a tirade over the teacher’s or prison guard’s unions, but you have to admit their (and other public employee groups) pension liabilities are another elephant in the room.’
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I would argue strongly with you if you choose to make the teacher’s union your whipping boy. On the other hand, I’ll be happy to join your tirade against the completely unprincipled prison guards union.
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I agree that ‘pension liabilities are another elephant in the room’. However, the reason is primarily because irresponsible politicians have been kicking the looming liability down the road for years. And please don’t blame the public employees themselves for the problem. The university executives you cite are a rare (and egregious) exception. I know nurses that work for the local county that have very nice pensions owed to them. They also receive substantially smaller salaries than their private sector counterparts.

NewsBusters — Time’s Joe Klein: Prop 13, Conservatism Caused ‘California Bust’
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2010/01/11/times-joe-klein-prop-13-conservatism-caused-california-bust

“I would argue strongly with you if you choose to make the teacher’s union your whipping boy. On the other hand, I’ll be happy to join your tirade against the completely unprincipled prison guards union.”

OK, tell me any private sector employment that pays up to 90% of salary upon retirement at age fifty. Show me all the private sector employees who are receiving 100% paid medical benefits for themselves AND THEIR DEPENDENTS. I have a number of friends from the teaching profession, and that is their situation. That being said, this is common throughout the public sector. City, county, state employees uniformly enjoy rich packages the rest of us shmoes can only dream of. The sad thing is, the private sector is where wealth is created. Without us, there is no government goody bag!

I am married to a nurse who practices in the private sector. I won’t argue she isn’t paid well, but her retirement is a joke, and when you factor in how much of her salary is eaten up by taxes, disability insurance, medical, dental, etc. her take home isn’t all that wonderful. Add to that the little extra vigorish the state is “borrowing” in increased state income tax witholding, she brings home less tha 60% of her “salary”.

You’ve said a lot about the benefits public sector nurses receive. You’ve completely ignored the fact that they typically make about 60-70% of the salary that private sector nurses make. Are you arguing that public sector nurses should be paid much larger salaries than they are now?
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Remember, it comes out pretty even in the end. Most new nurses go to work for the private sector hospitals. They’re attracted by the high salaries. When they’re in their 50s they tend to suddenly discover the value of the pensions that the union nurses at public hospitals receive. Unfortunately, they (and many others) whine about the pensions and forget the lower salaries that were required to gain those pensions.
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Since your spouse is a nurse, you are no doubt aware of the competition that private hospitals and the public sector engage in to acquire good nurses. Head-hunters solicit nurses now in the same way that they did engineers during the dot com boom. The profession is a well paid and valuable one now.
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If your wife has a poor (or no) pension then she has chosen that. If she wants better then she needs to either join a union that will fight for her or change hospitals. If she doesn’t, when she’s in her 60s she will no one to blame but herself. Is she willing to demand a cut in pay for a better pension? If she isn’t then she has nothing to complain about.

BTW – when did no pensions and broken 401Ks become the norm? It didn’t used to be. Does it have to be now? We’ve been sold a bill of goods by people that consider an estate tax against > $5 million estates a ‘death tax’ and consider complaints about $50 million+ executive compensation packages ‘socialism’.
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My (very right wing) father is retired comfortably with his social security and pension. His situation used to be the norm in the US. It still is the norm in many western countries. Just not here. How has that benefited you?
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Rather than complaining about the pensions that other people have, shouldn’t you be complaining that you don’t have one as well? Other people are willing to fight for themselves. Why don’t you?
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Let’s race to the top – not drag everyone else down to the bottom.

Random: My aunt was a registered nurse and worked hard with others to get what benefits and salaries they have. Unions were their means to that end.
Re: CA teachers’ retirement
From CA Research Bureau Public Retirement System Survey 12/07
Average age of retirement…61
Average years service…26 years
Average monthly retirement benefit $2617 ($31,404) annually
Comfortable but not exhorbitant. In order to fairly evaluate, you need to avoid anecdotal evidence and look at the facts. They do have excellent medical. However, if they leave CA they lose their med benefits.
I wish that private industry still offered good pension plans. Few do. Many have now cut back on matching contributions to 401Ks.
There are problems with some pension plans being overly rich. But not all.
Also, if the Republican party in California wasn’t so extreme perhaps more could be accomplished. They have banned Ahnold and Pete Wilson from their conventions. They have no tolerance for different points of view.

apr2563,
Thank you for providing (cited) facts for this discussion. They’re very revealing.

randomkirk,
Since this thread is nearly dead, I’d like to take this opportunity to say how much I’ve appreciated the respectful tone of our debate. No insults (unfortunately, a rarity on this blog). Very classy! Thanks.

bobcn1 & apr2563,

First, to clear the record, I am not complaining about my wife’s retirement, nor is she. What I am saying is the retirement plan she has is what can affordably be delivered in the private sector. (I actually don’t feel retirement is a “right” to begin with.) The private sector does not have the benefit of taxpayers footing the bill when their retirement plan is broke, as public pensions do. Sooner or later, I hope that everyone that thinks “government” is this endless fount of money will realize that WE are the government and the money that gets thrown around so willingly by many politicians is OUR MONEY.

As for my “anecdotal” information on teacher retirement, those statistics are easily skewed by the number of teachers who keep a hand in the system by working part-time, etc. I am not talking about one or two retirees when I cite retirement at fifty, etc. I am talking about DOZENS whom I personally know.

The Republican Party (of which I am not a member, by the way) is too dogmatic, to be sure. Sadly, the same can be said for the Dems. Thanks to reapportionment that allows the inmates to run the asylum (which voters recently, blessedly, modified), politicians were infuenced to (effectively) run against members of their own party for office, which has proven to promote extremism on both sides.

You might not hear this from many conservatives, but you’ll hear it from this one…unions still have a place in our society. Just as I believe privitization is a usefull mechanism to keep costs down, so the threat/promise of unionizing is to employers in keeping pay and benefits fair. The danger lies in stacking the deck too far in one direction or the other. Unfortunately in California public employee unions have far too much political clout, and that’s a fact.

bobcn1,

Thanks for your comments regarding our exchange. I find little use in name calling and the like on these blogs, which is why I have refrained in the past. That being said, the only way to encourage civilized discourse is to practice it, in my view.

Bobcn1,

I’ll refer you to my post above this one which will provide you with more education than you apparently possess concerning the effects of prop13.

I guess the newsbuster’s wingnut bait isnt as powerfull as the Drudge bait.