Re: Jonathan Gruber

First of all, I’d like to echo and associate myself with everything that Kate has to say below, and to congratulate Marcy Wheeler on an excellent piece of reporting. As has been so often the case with Marcy, she distinguishes herself by asking questions and doing spade work that at times makes the rest of us look a little thick by comparison.

Count me among those who have quoted Jon Gruber often in the past–and among those who will continue to, although in the future, not without disclosing his financial ties. (Not having done so, by the way, is a failure of jounalists, not any fault of Gruber, who as best I can tell, never did anything to hide those ties.) Here’s why I will continue to rely upon him as a source:

His data and his microsimulation model–15,000 lines of computer code–are, quite simply, the gold standard in health care policy. That’s why politicians of both parties have turned to him for assistance. In 2007, when I was working on this story, Mitt Romney recalled for me the “aha moment” of health reform in Massachusetts. It came right out of Gruber’s data:

Yet they also found something surprising when Romney began looking at who, precisely, the uninsured were in Massachusetts. Everyone expected the typical profile to be that of a single mother just scraping by or maybe someone with chronic illness–not exactly ideal customers for insurers. Instead, nearly the opposite was true. “It turned out they were largely single males, and they were working,” Romney recalls. “They were eminently insurable. It’s funny how data opens up new insight.”

That was the bit of analysis that changed everything. Gruber ran the numbers at MIT: universal coverage would be expensive, but so would any half-measure. Romney could simply expand the existing system and, by doing so, cover about one-third more people. Or he could cover everyone by including an “individual mandate,” a controversial measure requiring people to buy insurance and offering subsidies to those who couldn’t afford it. The price tag would be about one-third higher. “I began by saying, Well, maybe we could help half the people that don’t have insurance, maybe we could help a third of the people, and ultimately it became, You know what? We could actually get everybody insured!” Romney recalls.

And Massachusetts was not the only state that turned to Gruber. He also worked with Arnold Schwarzenegger in California, and with state officials in Delaware, Connecticut and Maryland as they have attempted to expand coverage. During the 2008 presidential campaign, most of the Democratic candidates turned to him at one point or another. At one point, for instance, John Edwards had him debate the merits of various alternatives with Zeke Emanuel.

But what he had to say wasn’t always what politicians wanted to hear. For instance, he has long been a critic of the tax exclusion for health benefits, which is why he would tell reporters during the general election campaign that his preference would be a plan that combined Obama’s coverage with John McCain’s financing. And that is why he is such a fan of the “Cadillac tax.”

Gruber, a one-time student of Larry Summers at Harvard, developed his model when he returned to academia from a stint working for the Clinton Administration. He told me once that this endeavor had been the idea of Clinton’s health care adviser Chris Jennings. “What people in Washington need,” Gruber recalled Jennings telling him, “is someone who is objective and willing to give them answers, not ‘on the one hand, on the other hand.’” As Gruber explained to me: “The fact that I was an academic willing to do this put me in a unique position.”

I first became aware of how much the Obama Administration had come to rely on him early last year, when a top White House official marveled to me that they could get answers from Gruber and his staff of three overnight. By comparison, this official told me, it would take weeks to run the same question through the Office of Management and Budget or the Congressional Budget Office. Of course, somewhere in the back of my mind, I assumed that Gruber was getting paid for this. What I kick myself for now is that I didn’t ask the obvious: How much?

Another thing worth pointing out is that Gruber’s public statements have not always been exactly what the Obama White House wants to hear. For instance, there’s this from Politico:

Gruber, the favorite economist of the White House, said the bill “really doesn’t bend the cost curve.”

“But I think this bill starts us down the road to the point where we can do that,” Gruber said. “The alternative is doing nothing. Relative to doing nothing, I think we are a lot closer to bending the curve.”

Reminded that Obama demanded a bill that lowers health care spending, Gruber said: “That is what he would like to do. But he’s not doing it.”

And at a particularly delicate moment, he told me this about the Senate Finance Committee bill:

Where the original version of the bill would have allowed people to opt out of the so-called individual mandate if the cost of coverage exceeded 10% of their income, the latest version lowers that threshold to 8%. Jonathan Gruber, a health economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, estimates that will mean 3 million fewer people will buy health insurance. “That’s bad,” he says, “but I don’t think it’s catastrophic.”

More problematic, he says, is the fact that the new version of the bill would impose lower fines than the original draft on those who are not exempt from the mandate but who choose not to buy insurance anyway; indeed, the CBO estimates that the penalties will now bring in about $4 billion over 10 years, down from an original projection of $20 billion. That reduction in fines, Gruber says, is like saying “we think taxes are too high, so we’re going to encourage you to cheat.” The result, he fears, is that the new insurance marketplaces created under the legislation will be crowded with sick people, who are expensive to insure, while relatively inexpensive healthy people stay away. And that, Gruber warns, would probably result in higher premiums for everyone.

These kinds of comments that convince me that, wherever he is getting his paycheck, Gruber has not lost his objectivity.

Related Topics: economic analysis, jonathan gruber, marcy wheeler, Barack Obama, Health Care
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  • trifecta55

    Marcy can’t go back on tv though cause she said BJ on MSNBC.
    .
    Oh and RIP mamma Biden. She seemed quite a character.

  • hellslittlestangel

    I’m sure this scoop will have the Pee Potty Patriots at firedoglake all atwitter with indignation. Me, I’m glad the administration hires people hire people who know what they’re talking about.

  • hellslittlestangel

    I was banned from firedoglake for comparing Jane Hamsher’s and Larry Johnson’s haircuts.

  • Ivy_B

    I would rather hear from people who know what they are talking about. I appreciate knowing what interest the experts have, but am glad to hear of his objectivity. If someone is doing a lot of work, I don’t know why we expect that they should do it for free.

    If Rudy Giuliani can go on Good Morning America this morning and again say that there was no terrorist attack on this country during the Bush administration, whatever Gruber’s ties to this administration are seem pretty weak tea as a long term scandal.

  • gysgt213

    “(Not having done so, by the way, is a failure of jounalists, not any fault of Gruber, who as best I can tell, never did anything to hide those ties.)”
    .
    Be careful KT-Just took a run over to Marcy’s place and it appears at least according to Ben Smith Gruber may not have always been on the up and up on this.
    .

    Gruber told POLITICO that he has told reporters of the contract “whenever they asked.”
    .
    But in a follow-up with the Post, Ben Smith reports that Gruber was asked by the WaPo, and he said he didn’t have any financial conflicts:
    .
    Washington Post op-ed editor Autumn Brewington emails that the Post, as a practice, asks writers to disclose any “conflicts of interest that might be relevant to this op-ed, including but not limited to financial or family relationships with any of the subjects of the article” and that Gruber, when asked whether he “received any funding, for research or otherwise, from organizations or persons identified in the column,” answered “no.”
    .
    http://firedoglake.com/

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    Someone who frames the debate in these terms

    Relative to doing nothing, I think we are a lot closer to bending the curve.

    needs to be very, very explicit about their financial relationships to an Administration that seeks to frame the debate solely in those terms.
    .
    If he had been saying

    Relative to doing nothing, I think we are lot closer to bringing America’s $7400 per person price tag down to Switzerland’s $5000 per person.

    then there might be some arguments for the obvious nature of his independence, but he didn’t, and in any case that characterization would be false –which is why the Administration tries not to frame the discussion in terms of cost (price per person), but in terms of cost curve (health care inflation still rising, just less so).
    .
    It’s not quite CNN’s “retired generals” scandal –did you ever write about that, KT?– but it’s bad nonetheless.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    i think the key quote there is the one that follows, and that demonstrates his independence:
    .
    Reminded that Obama demanded a bill that lowers health care spending, Gruber said: “That is what he would like to do. But he’s not doing it.”
    .

    Also, I think I posted something the weekend that the NYT ran the generals story, but I’m unable to pull it up. I probably didn’t do much more than link to it, but in this case, I felt that I had some additional knowledge of the subject–not to mention, some ‘splainin’ to do about my own journalism.

  • square1

    From The Atlantic, November 21 200:

    He was one of almost two dozen top economists who sent President Obama a letter earlier this month insisting that reform won’t succeed unless it “bends the curve” in the long-term growth of health care costs. And, on that front, Gruber likes what he sees in the Reid proposal. Actually he likes it a lot.

    “I’m sort of a known skeptic on this stuff,” Gruber told me. “My summary is it’s really hard to figure out how to bend the cost curve, but I can’t think of a thing to try that they didn’t try. They really make the best effort anyone has ever made. Everything is in here….I can’t think of anything I’d do that they are not doing in the bill. You couldn’t have done better than they are doing.

    http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/11/a_milestone_in_the_health_care_journey.php

    Sounds like a real skeptic.

  • apr2563

    KT thanks for being up front about this. What I can’t understand is why source’s backgrounds aren’t always vetted. With internet resources there is no reason not to take the time to know all you can about who is being interviewed.
    I know this is not your MO and probably is not the motive of Mr. Gruber, but it often appears outlets like Politico and others use the sources that will bolster their preconceived point of view or get the scoop. The death of accuracy has been “breaking news”! Never mind background. Bush had plenty of these people available: Maggie Gallagher and Armstrong Williams. We now have Pete Peterson exponding economics in the Washington Post, not as opinion but straight reporting. Seriously!
    How often does the press call on “experts” that do not reveal their ties to related industries: Generals? How often does the press reveal the money they receive for speeches to special interest groups: Cokie Roberts? How often does the press or interviewees reveal their family ties to politcal parties or special interests: Howie Kurtz and Tucker Carlson?
    The village is so incestuous and has so little accountability. They still take Sally Quinn seriously. Paul Bremer being interview on CNN, seriously? Chertoff evaluating current HLS problems, seriously?
    Jay Rosen should be taken seriously.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Why is it we are so quick to question the integrity of everyone except the media. Considering the current state of the national media I know I’m not ready to take the word of Ben ‘smith or anyone whose ever written for Politico let alone the Washington Post over Gruber, whose only claim is that you didn’t ask.

  • sevenoaks07

    Dee: we agree that skepticism is healthy; but there is little evidence that our journalists always use their antenna. Prescribed narratives and the Political Play of the Day (Mike Allen’s pre-ordained script of the day on Morning Joe) is more important in setting the agenda. These people can’t think outside the box. It is a game.

  • carotexas1

    Now I know who is responsible for the words “bend the cost curve”

  • jncc

    Count me among those who have quoted Jon Gruber often in the past–and among those who will continue to, although in the future, not without disclosing his financial ties.
    ___________________

    Better:

    Count me among those who have quoted Jon Gruber often in the past–and among those who will continue to, although in the future, while disclosing his financial ties.
    ______________________________

    Mo better:

    I quoted Gruber often in the past and will do so in the future, but I will also disclose his financial ties.

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  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Moreover, when I witness this kind of manufactured tempest, designed to reassure me that journalists really care about this kind of lapse in ethical judgment, I have to ask who they heck do they think they’re fooling? Last August, when the entire national press corps were fanning out across the country to cover the terrible town hall teabaggers, I didn’t see a lot in the way of disclosures from industry plants and corporate supported political operatives who were pretending to be grassroots activists and ordinary citizens.
    .
    Even after being confronted one reporter from Politico said so what who cares even it’s true what does it matter. So tell me why does it matter where Gruber gets his money from if it doesn’t matter that the health reform rebellion was manufactured in a corporate boardroom? If faux grassroots outrage that shaped public opinion was really brought to us courtesy of the health insurance industry of America it really does matter and that should have been front page news.
    .
    Give me a break, you people get excited by this nonsense when its convenient and totally ignore it when it is not. You just want to use this blip to hit the administration. When Rachel Maddow’s cry out about the astroturfers every night even after getting Dick Armey fired she was ignored, yet the Gruber disclosure by firedoglake is going to bring the house down. Please!

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    You are an EXCELLENT editor!

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  • stuartzechman

    Thank you so very much for responding to commentary, KT, it is always greatly appreciated.

  • spob

    Looks like the NYTimes is behind the power curve on this issue.
    .
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/09/business/09union.html?pagewanted=2&hp

  • kingsbridge77

    Tumulty defends Gruber because he hasn’t said things Obama wanted to hear 100% of the time. But what is the percentage of times that Gruber tells Obama what he wants to hear? 90%? 95%? 80%?

    Is Tumulty of the view that conflict of interest only affects a person when that person defends his boss absolutely 100?% of the time? Talk about setting a low bar.

  • kingsbridge77

    Let me add this. As someone else mentioned:

    When the Washington Post asked Gruber whether he had any financial conflicts, why did he say no? And why did he say YES to the New England journal a month later? Why did his fellow villager Karen Tumulty disappear this very important fact in her pro-Gruber defense? How could he have had no conflict of interest in late November while having one in late December? Is Gruber an honest person? Did his contract begin after he gave the Washington Post the interview?

  • spob

    I think KT is defending news reporting rather than Gruber here. The bottom line is that interested people are quoted all the time, and, if KT’s right about Gruber’s intellectual honesty, than his quotes (with disclosure) are probably worth more than many others.

  • spob

    There appear to be other issues with respect to the $300K consulting fee:
    .
    http://hotair.com/archives/2010/01/09/is-gruber-the-armstrong-williams-of-the-obama-administration/
    .
    KT, is this an issue? Looks like one to me.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    Kings and Spob: I have no explanation as to why he answered the NEJM one way, and the Wash Post another. However, as to his contracts, it’s worth noting (as I did in my post) that his model is a completely unique product. If agencies are looking for the analysis, there really isn’t anywhere else that they can go in the private sector. And he works a lot faster than the government does. Marcy Wheeler, who broke this story, posted this yesterday:
    .
    http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/01/08/reinhardt-grubers-simulations-better-than-private-sector-ones/

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Both arguments are equally flawed because they both assume that credibility is solely a product of independence and independence is measured solely by the ability to freely depart from the rhetoric being promoted by those who provide their income. While admittedly, being free to express yourself as you see fit is a component of independence, it can’t be the only factor in determining credibility, otherwise you have the unenviable task of setting a minimal level of divergence in order to achieve the level of certifiable independence.
    .
    Moreover, this also assumes that the departure is based on Gruber being right and Obama being wrong. Or are we saying that someone can be judged more credible simply because on occasion they diverge from those holding the purse strings, suppose on those occasions they promoted wrong information? And what if they agreed 100% of the time, because they were both right, should that mean that we ought not to trust what we hear and look for a credible voice among their critics. If that was the case then that would give the right wing far more credibility than they deserve even though their way of doing things has been proven to fail, have left our system on the brink of collapse, and more importantly has increasingly consisted of half truths, innuendos and outright lies.
    .
    Perhaps, I’ve stumbled onto the answer to the question that has been haunting us all for some time. We’ve all wondered why the news media has relied and given credence to the right wing so often? Recently politifacts labeled Sarah Palin’s death panels the lie of the year — not because it was a whopper, but because they recognized how with the assistance of the national press corps it permeated the body politic like nothing else this year. Just yesterday George Stefanopolis (sp.) was forced to apologize for letting Guilliani’s lies slide. Perhaps its the way you people look at credibility that is the problem, because frankly rarely do you quote credible figures, most often you quote figures who are the most sensational, the most adversarial, and those who generate the most ratings increasing language.
    .
    Perhaps, you should both rethink how we could best judge someone’s credibility. This constant assumption that following the money substitute for due diligence is absurd. Follow the money, when money is appropriate as in the case of the corporate astro turfers trying to derail health care, not because the government enlists and therefore pays one of the foremost thinkers on this issue. Who would you have them hire the guy least qualified to give an opinion? And once they get that opinion are best and brightest don’t lose their value because the government either follows their advice or agrees with their assertions. Nor does the media chasing a critical view make that more credible, because they could just as easily be wrong, or be liars as is the case so often in our politics now.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Why the assumption that Wapo is being honest? On any other day you don’t respect anything they have to say, especially if they don’t side with the right wing. Or in your mind has their credibility increased now that they tend to go after the administration?

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  • spob

    I think there are issues of cronyism–this guy was a buddy of Orszag, and he gets a $300K contract? Obviously, that’s small potatoes, but it’s odd, and this guy is definitely on the side of the Administration.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Is it even possible in your world view that someone can be the most knowledgeable individual in their field, reject right wing orthodoxy and god forbid be friends with someone they share common interests with like Orzag and also be a credible contractor? Isn’t you real problem that anyone not touting your perspective is flawed? Because I don’t think I ever heard you utter one word against the cronyism of Haliburton and KBR and their relationship to Cheney?

  • spob

    Dee, certainly there is no problem with raising the issue. I’d be curious to hear KT’s thoughts.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    Re cronyism: First of all, this academic community of health care experts is pretty small, so they all pretty much know each other. And as Marcy Wheeler’s post quoting Uwe Reinhardt suggests, what Gruber does is pretty unique. My assumption here remains that they were paying Gruber for his numbers, not for his spin. (Indeed, he hasn’t always been in ally in that latter department.) And that is the reason I have continued to call him as a source. I want to give my readers the best information I can get. People I talk to–from Mitt Romney to the Democrats on Capitol Hill–generally regard his data as the most unbiased, and most reliable. Plus, he gets them (and me) answers really, really fast.

  • spob

    Thx KT.

  • kingsbridge77

    Ms. Tumulty said, “Not having done so, by the way, is a failure of jounalists, not any fault of Gruber, who as best I can tell, never did anything to hide those ties.

    But the New York Times doesn’t agree. In an editor’s note today on a July 12th op-ed written by Gruber in the Times, the newspaper says:

    “Like other writers for the Op-Ed page, Professor Gruber signed a contract that obligated him to tell editors of such a relationship. Had editors been aware of Professor Gruber’s government ties, the Op-Ed page would have insisted on disclosure or not published his article. “

    link: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/09/opinion/09ednote.html

    Ms. Tumulty blames the New York Times for Gruber’s failure to disclose his ties to the administration in the form. Does it make sense to you guys? Not to me.

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  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Please this is the same NY Times that has this entire country swimming in white water for nearly a decade when nothing existed but sold a lot of news papers. This is also the NY Times that sold us weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They are suspect period, its the price you pay for selling out your credibility to boost circulation.

  • kingsbridge77

    Do you mean Gruber told the New York Times about his conflict but the NYT is lying about it?

  • brmull

    A model that has only been tested on historical data, if at all, is worthless. I am not surprise that KT turned to Gruber without investigating his background because her record is that of a mediocre propagandist. Truly it would be an insult to subpar journalists to call her that. Sorry but that’s the truth.

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  • keepplugging

    “…wherever he is getting his paycheck, Gruber has not lost his objectivity.”

    Interesting concept. It’s nice to know we can follow the money to objectivity.

    Anyhow, Gruber is always right. He has 15,000 lines of computer program, and computer programs are always right.

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