Putting Some of the Reform Back Into Health Reform

NOTE: On Sunday, CBO changed its long-term estimates of cost savings, which it said were based on a misunderstanding of this bill. Please see this update.)

Given the drama and suspense of the past few weeks, it’s understandable that the first round of commentary about the new Senate health bill would focus on the deals that Majority Leader Harry Reid had to make to bring aboard all 60 of the votes that he will need to beat a Republican filibuster. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell went so far as to declare it “a monstrosity, a 2,100 page monstrosity full of special deals. This is not renaming the post office. Make no mistake, this bill will reshape our nation and our lives.”

But while you might think that all this horsetrading would produce a weaker and more bloated bill, it appears that, by some measures at least, the opposite may have happened. The preliminary analysis suggests that the new bill would actually be more effective than the previous version in reining in health care costs in the long term. To use the current Washington cliche, it would do a better job “bending the curve.” Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf put it this way in his blog:

Relative to the legislation as originally proposed, the expected reduction in deficits during the 2020–2029 period is larger for the legislation incorporating the manager’s amendment. Most of that difference arises because the manager’s amendment would lower the threshold for Medicare spending growth that would trigger recommendations for spending reductions by the Independent Payment Advisory Board.

What Elmendorf is talking about is this: As I had written a couple of weeks ago, Reid’s earlier bill had taken the teeth out of one of the proposals that economists had considered a “game changer.” It is a new board that would come up with proposals to bring down Medicare costs, largely taking the job out of Congress’ hands. (Medicare is such a big player in the overall health market, spending more than $450 billion a year, that the private industry often follow its lead.)

Reid’s earlier version would not have allowed the board to act unless Medicare spending grew faster than overall health care spending–something that pretty much doesn’t happen these days. The new version is signficantly stronger, thanks in no small part to pressure from the Obama White House and a group of reform-minded freshman Senators. It would trigger action from the board if growth in health care spending exceeds that of Medicare spending, which is pretty much guaranteed to be the case.

All of that sounds pretty technical, but getting the details right is the difference between a health care bill that will work and one that won’t, economists say. And many experts have been worried about the direction the bill appeared to be headed.

There’s also another potentially significant improvement buried down in fine print of the bill: The new version expands the pilot project that tests the concept of “bundling” health care payments–an effort to get doctors and hospitals and other health care providers to work together more closely by paying them with a lump sum to treat a specific condition, rather than for paying each one of them according to how many services they provide. The idea here is both to save money and to get them to focus on which treatment is most likely to be best for the patient. Health care experts believe this is one of the single most important moves that could bring about a transformation of our health care system.

Even more important, Reid’s new version would allow the Health and Human Services Secretary to expand the pilot program nationally, if it proves to be successful. Under the earlier bill, she would have had to come back to Congress for permission–something that, given the clout of the medical industry on Capitol Hill, would pretty much guarantee that it would never happen.

Will these kinds of changes be enough to really transform the system? Not on their own. And even these are far from a sure thing, especially as the bill moves into conference. (The House refused to establish an independent Medicare commission, for instance, and opposition there remains strong.) But the fact that they have been made suggests that there are still those on Capitol Hill who remember that bringing down health care costs was one of the reasons they began this whole exercise in the first place.

Related Topics: bending the curve, cost containment, douglas elmendorf, health costs, Mitch McConnell, Barack Obama, Congress, Harry Reid, Health Care, Republican Party
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  • sacredh

    So they made the bill so complicated that it might actually work? It can’t have been by design. I have the feeling that the provisions in the bill that might actually improve our healtcare system are being read as something entirely different by the people who are determined to maintain the staus quo.

  • trifecta55

    Mitch McConnell has great ideas on healthcare. In fact, I suggest we give him 4 hours of tv time free, just to hit the major points of his deep policy thoughts.

  • sacredh

    3 hours and 59 minutes of commercials?

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Now that we know there are no liberals in the Senate I guess we can hope there are some in the House.

    The “centrists” have shown how this thing can be stopped or changed to something acceptable to liberals.

    My bet is the spineless Democrats will fold up in the House too.

  • stuartzechman

    KT:
    .
    Thanks for this reporting.
    .
    If these developments are as you say, and mean what you say they mean, this might be enough for me to actually support the passage of this bill (as bad as it is) and therefore to urge my representatives in Congress to do so, something I have not done to date.
    .
    IF this is what I think it is…

  • stuartzechman

    …and, of course, I don’t mean this insignificant pablum: ““bundling” health care payments“, but this potentially game-changing development:

    It is a new board that would come up with proposals to bring down Medicare costs, largely taking the job out of Congress’ hands. (Medicare is such a big player in the overall health market, spending more than $450 billion a year, that the private industry often follow its lead.)

  • deconstructiva

    Thanks, KT. Please keep digging for more details and deals. What peer reactions towards Ben Nelson are you and Amy reading? Relief, despair, scorn? Kudos for finding the improved items, though we’ll still need to fix bugs later, esp. public coverage – PO or just go for it w/ single payer, extend medicare to all (no new bureaucracy?), etc. Still too much reliance on private policies, even when pre-existings become illegal.
    .
    Also, this involves tea leaves but what’s your read of upcoming battle? Will they still do joint committee or try to bypass it straight the House? If jc, might they try to improve bill more here or punt / fix next year? I hope Reid learned 60-vote count golden fleece lesson and may lower filibuster limits or push the nuclear button outright. Any sign of this?

  • stuartzechman

    though we’ll still need to fix bugs later, esp. public coverage

    If, as so many Democrats say, this is the only chance in generations that the Democrats have to do anything (and by “anything” I mean this Senate bill) about health care, then how will any public coverage be possible in the future?
    .
    What will have changed?

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    The only reason they think this is the last chance is because the idiot running the country now thinks he is Jesus Christ and all previous history was simply a prelude to his empty rhetoric.

  • 53_3

    Sacred:
    .
    Remember the saying about a million monkeys pounding the keys of a million typewriters for a million years?
    .
    I think I’ve made my point…

  • jcapan

    I said it the other day, in the end the bill is what it is. If the benefits outweigh the negatives, even modestly, it should pass. As SZ says, it’s highly unlikely it’ll be improved upon, in the short or long term. But it’s hard for me to see ’10 or ’12 bringing more progressives into DC. What the bill’s passage conveys to Americans about liberalism is disheartening at best, but however strategically damaging it might be to progressive change in the future, it’s hard for me to support scuttling the bill outright.

    This is yet another tragically lost battle to reframe public discourse and action, but the war continues. It’s simply my contention that for that larger conflict to ever be resolved in favor of the people as opposed to the estab. that Americans need a real choice, that democracy doesn’t end in a ballot box with corrupt and corrupter on the touch screen.

    I think this piece by Robert Cruickshank is spot-on, how the Clintonian game Obama is trying to play in 2009 is the wrong tack:

    http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/19675

  • umeshgeeta

    I am not sure what Karen is saying. On my blog, I have an entry (http://www.21stcenturypolitics.com/2009/12/hcr-cost-control-holes-remain.html)

    Problem is, this what the CBO report has to say:

    “Such recommendations would be required if the Chief Actuary for the Medicare program projected that the program’s spending per beneficiary would grow more rapidly than a measure of inflation (the average of the growth rates of the consumer price index for medical services and the overall index for all urban consumers). The provision would place a number of limitations on the actions available to the board….”

    Karen thinks recommendations come into picture when general medical service growth rate is more than Medicare growth rate. As per above statements, that is not the case. Recommendations come into picture when Medicare growth rate is higher than ‘average of general medical service growth rate and general CPI’. At least that is what I understand. So if general medical service growth rate is 10%, Medicare is 5% and CPI in urban area 3%; Medicate growth rate is (5%) is still smaller than 10 + 3 = 13 / 2 = 6.5% so actually those recommendations will not come into the picture. It should be simply more than general CPI growth rate i.e. 3%.

    I hope I am wrong in this interpretations and Karen has answers to this. Otherwise, my suspicion is valid that the bill is nothing but ‘land mine’ of loop holes in controlling costs.

    I sincerely request Karen to respond here.

  • deconstructiva

    …long reply, stuart (sorry) but I think real change involves: (1) Reid and a spine (or pair) and (2) purging the corporate D’s such as Nelson in primaries. Reid needs to change filibuster rules / eliminate it (remove the hold too). A thought: instead of doing this on HCR or finance / other touchy items, do this on an upcoming sleepy no-food fight bill. On a routine thingy when some R’s are out / asleep (literally), have Franken or other approach podium to announce, “I move to change / eliminate rule ##…” and quickly set an immediate vote. Coup de grace done. Once filibuster’s gone (the House has survived without it for 100+ years), then correct items.
    .
    stuart, I don’t believe this is our only chance. Just as teabaggers are fighting for change (for worse) in the R’s, so are progressives in the D’s (for better). Both sides are fighting the corporate status quo and that’s what gives me hope. The private-system HC staus quo is so bad (invoking my inner rusty rhetoric) that we have to start something here and then immediately fix it.
    .
    People are dying NOW under the status quo. KT’s brother nearly did. stuart, you mentioned your own lovely bride’s HC issues, sorry to hear that. I’ve been lucky but other relatives haven’t. I toyed with kill-the-bill idea – Jane Hamsher makes a great case – but am now digging my heels in. The current system will continue to make our lives (and your wife’s) miserable. Failure (to pass bill now and then correct it) is not an option. It’s your choice if you want to give up but I’m won’t. If you disagree, then we’ll politely disagree here since I’m not backing down. If you have a hot drink recipe for Karen as a reward for weekend work, would you print it? I’m working on one.

  • lupercal5

    harsh. no its because you can bet ur @$$ that no more president will have the cojones to work with congress on such a large overhaul of the system. democrats will be scared $hitless whenever any talk of health care reform comes up. Especially those centrists who want to kill the bill.
    .
    it means ten years from now, we’ll have more than 31 millions uninsured and the public won’t trust dems to do a darn thing about it. so guess who?
    .
    if you think killing this bill to get a public option passed through reconciliation is a better deal for folks, then pass this bill, get the 900 bil subsidy for regular and poor folks, get the regulations on insurance companies, get the delivery systems that actually will make health care cheaper. Then, go back and do reconciliation to get public option. why sell yourself short? and im not even being sarcastic
    .
    if i had to pick a fight in which i’d rather have no bill than an imperfect bill, it’s financial regulation. if obama rams a bill down our throat that phucks up every little guy, and has loopholes the size of a desert in addition to all the giveaways corporations are gonna get anyhow, i’ll fight to get this bill killed. cuz next time the system collapses, dems will get blamed even if freakin centrists and repubs made it that way.

  • deconstructiva

    …the corporate centrists, esp. the D’s, have to go. In a twisted way I appreciate some of the Palin / teabagger protests since they’re trying to do the same in their party. If not for this, we’d risk losing Congress to the R’s IF they stay united and the D’s don’t. But there’s an opening to “clean House” on both sides. Whether it’s done is another matter.

  • discostu570

    It was the best of times… it was the BLURST of times!? (Fingers crossed that a Time.com audience is sufficiently high-brow to get the reference.)
    .
    On the topic of the economists’ letter and the resultant freshman bill (a story I’m glad we’re seeing some results from), as I recall the other big concern in that letter had been that the pilot projects, bundling among them, would require acts of congress to become permanent, rather than expanding by default and requiring legislative action to cancel. I’ve seen no mention of this in the manager’s amendment, any chance I missed it? Otherwise, if I understand the politics of pilot projects, these items won’t ever become law, and the bundling concept that some have such high hopes for will never be heard from again. Expanding the pilot is nice, but if it’ll take another 60 votes at some future time to make the project stick, I don’t think it matters.
    .
    Liberals have had to give up on almost every high-profile aspect of this legislation, but if we can win on as much of the nuts-and-bolts of the bill as the most recent news suggests we might have, the legislation could indeed be strong enough to make a difference, even if it’s not in a way that’s conducive to banner headlines.

  • stuartzechman

    deconstructiva:
    .
    You don’t have to back down from anything, we’re just having a friendly discussion.

    That said, if this
    .
    stuart, I don’t believe this is our only chance.
    .
    is true, then this:
    .
    Failure (to pass bill now and then correct it) is not an option.
    .
    is not true.
    .
    Also, if you’re really saying that folks can’t wait one more minute to get things right, then why do the things that are actually remedial about the legislation start in 2013 and 2014?
    .
    (btw, the legislation doesn’t seem to help LB one bit, since private insurers can still deny claims.)

  • sacredh

    Us? High-brow? The dickens you say.

  • jcapan

    Did you two see Kuttner and Taibbi on Moyers? Both offer largely the same critique of the process, the party and the pres, but K supports passage and surprise! Taibbi does not, but both arguments are compelling:
    .
    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/12182009/transcript1.html

  • deconstructiva

    …well, I think we just disagree here but we’ll survive (whether others do under status quo is another matter, thus my ardency. I get the impression you’re willing to wait for reform but I’m not. I see both statements as true with the caveat that corrections are made …but I can also see both of us as right depending on viewpoint. I don’t like the long delays for remedies kicking in 2013+ either. That’s one thing to change.

  • deconstructiva

    KT, thanks to you and Amy for today’s work during the snow. Good luck with upcoming details / more stories. In appreciation, here’s a hot punch for both of you to enjoy –

    Hot apple punch with baked apples
    .
    1 gallon apple cider
    1 tbsp. each of nutmeg, cloves, allspice, and cinnamon
    1 6 oz. can each of frozen concentrated lemonade and orange juice
    1 cup brown sugar (reg. ok too)
    cooking apples – as many as you want – jonagold, golden delicious, rome, winesap, etc.
    (I love honeycrisp for eating but they’re terrible for baking, don’t use red delicious either)
    brandy (optional) – 1 cup-ish or more
    cinnamon / sugar mix for apples
    cinnamon sticks for drink cups
    .
    Preheat oven to 350. Core apples and slice crosswise to get top/ bottom halves, keep skins on. Dust w/ cinn. sugar mix and place cut side down in glass dish. Bake about 20-30 mins. until fork tender.
    .
    In large soup pot, simmer 2 cups of cider with spices (except sugar) for 10 minutes. Add sugar, frozen lemonade / orange juice, and remaining cider. Taste and adjust / add spices and sugar as desired, and then heat until hot without boiling, stir occasionally. Add brandy about 2 minutes before serving (don’t want to cook all of the alcohol away).
    .
    Pour cider mixture into punch bowl and float apples in it. Serve in cups with cinn. sticks, then eat apples when done.

  • Art Pepper

    Thanks, KT. Seems tentatively like good news.

    But I am a bit confused. According to Joe Klein, anyone who objected that this bill does too little to bend the cost curve is an immature whiner.

    I guess that applies only to lefty bloggers, and not to “economists.”

  • brutaltruth1

    “This Bill is an insurance company’s dream” – Howard Dean, MD
    .
    Non floating link to Dr. Dean’s comments: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/HealthCare/howard-dean-health-care-bill-bigger-bailout-insurance/story?id=9349392
    .
    This disgrace of a bill is a boondoggle for special insurance industry interests, not for our citizens! – Andy Jacksonian
    .
    To be distributed to all media outlets post-haste:
    .
    A Brutal Truth Message from Andy Jacksonian:
    .
    If you believe a national healthcare program is as important as the Federal government’s maintaining our military and our national transportation programs, and if you really give a damn about the subject of Healthcare, you’ll read the following:
    .
    Both parties, especially the Rahm Emmanuel Chicago Democrats, are completely corrupt and in the pockets of the insurance industry. Interestingly, but not surprisingly, the House and Senate Dems’ convoluted crappy healthcare reform proposals are currently causing the insurance companies’ stock prices to rise very indicatively … as the health reform bill actually doesn’t reform anything at all and instead brings over 30 million more insurance customers to them whose insurance premiums US tax payers will be subsidizing. Why wouldn’t the insurance industry be blissfully ecstatic about this?
    .
    The Andy Jacksonian National Healthcare Doctrine:
    .
    The Brutal Truth about how the health industry ought to be reformed if we are to expect any practical benefits form Federal intervention and taxpayers underwriting it:
    .
    1) immediate implementation of a Federal government take over of all medical schools in the nation to remove the lack of accessibility (currently intended to perpetuate this profession’s income and incestual network propagation) for so many students, and instead opening the medical schools’ doors to all applicants meeting a universal standard… which will ensure there will be an adequate number of medical professionals everywhere in the nation.
    .
    2) implement tuition free medical schools for all admitted, removing the rational for ridiculously expensive medical billings imposed by doctors claiming they are too deeply in debt to do otherwise.
    .
    3) Federal price fixing for all medical charges, thereby COMPLETELY ELIMINATING THE NEED FOR THE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY AND THEIR EXTRA LAYER OF COSTS AND PROFITS TO BE INVOLVED IN OUR HEALTH CARE AT ALL
    .
    4) The savings realized as a result of implementing the 1, 2 and 3 steps above would generate the affordability of a Federally funded universal national healthcare program … with a surplus left over compared to our total current collective medical and insurance expenses.
    .
    Andy Jacksonian
    New Hickory Candidate

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    lupercal5 I don’t buy the BS that this is the last chance. In fact, the more I see of Obama the more I realize there is absolutely nothing unique or special about this moment in history. The guy is good at reasoning by analogy, which given his legal training, stands to reason. But we are certainly not in any history defining era of great change. It is all hyperbola. Besides, the next time someone reforms the system single-payer may be the only option on the table, because the system will have collapsed. If the “Centrists” refuse to allow the Left even a tiny morsel, then let’s make sure they are locked out too.

  • discostu570

    You do realize that the conservative population hasn’t moved out of the country, right?
    .
    Liberals can’t get a public option, and you advocate, at times in all caps, for a government takeover of medical schools. You may as well argue for the deportation of everybody who voted for McCain.
    .
    Government dictating prices in medicine would be a nice solution; it’s the solution the rest of the world has embraced, which is itself plenty of reason for conservatives to oppose it. This bill doesn’t do that, but it does increase the government’s leverage to do that in the future, as well as creating the necessary incentive. Subsidizing individual insurance costs makes them a burden on the state as well as the individual; it’s now in the treasury’s interests to do something about it, and stopping the subsidies is a politically untenable position. The insurance costs which are busting individual budgets will bust the federal budget (moreso, thanks to both the subsidies and the increased size of Medicare and Medicaid), until the federal government gets wise and does something about it.

  • http://iscientia.wordpress.com iscientia

    Those who would have the heart to kill a baby do not have any boundaries against killing anyone. These are the people who will now dictate the terms of your health and well being. Whether by a secular or a religious point of view ask yourself, is this love?

    I live for the day when all rejoice the significance of all possibilities of anyone’s worth toward the phenomena of life. A day when a conception brings a joy that elevates the significance of this miracle beyond any circumstances by which conceived. The great Jewish philosopher was asked, what is the greatest sacrifice? His response, “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”

    Health care for all is a noble act if given from one’s free will. The use of coercion for universal health care is not an act of charity, only tyranny. At what percentage income taxes are we to consider communist, 20, 60, or 80%? At what point is this in reality communism? No, the great Jewish philosopher was not a communist. The responsibility of all he asked from you was by your free choice. So again, I contend that those who would kill a baby do not have the love of life required for me to trust with my health care.

    Give away trillions of dollars. When the time for repayment comes due and they will, what percentage of taxes will be owed by every citizen of the United State? 20, 60, or 80%, at what point is this in reality communism? This is the object of this plan. Health care is just a ploy toward this achievement.

  • trifecta55

    I too tire of the meme that pouty liberals need to quit whining and get on board. Who has is it been who has compromised exactly?

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    i agree that it is not as strong as the initial Finance Committee bill, and what it puts in there as a trigger is not as simple a measure of inflation as, say, just linking it to the CPI. (Or, as Finance did, GDP plus 1%.) But the CPI itself is not a perfect measure of inflation. it can get thrown out of whack by a single force, such as the price of oil. i think this averaging was an effort to make sure that:
    .
    1. there is a reasonable chance that the trigger actually gets pulled (which seems to be what CBO decided).
    .
    and
    .
    2. that it won’t be a “hair trigger.” because if it were, congress would override it.
    .
    As a result, the CBO letter suggests that it believes these savings will actually happen.

  • umeshgeeta

    Thanks Karen for your reply. There is merit in your response. With CPI, be careful, because I think BLS uses CPI sans ‘food prices and energy prices’…

    I just wish the bill was at least as tight as the Finance Committee Proposal. But I guess I am a slow guy to understand how the politics works in Congress:
    - Finance Committee proposes what is the high water mark of fiscal prudence;
    - then full Senate dilutes that further which is what Sen. Reid has done (I believe single handedly he has done more damage, chaos and mess of this whole process; but that is just a personal opinion); and
    - then finally when it is merged with House bill in Conference; it gets more near to the rank fiscal insanity of House Members.

    My problem is this – how do you decide which is worse: Fed budget busting by the existing runway costs because there are no effective cost controls at present (so called status quo option) or increased risk to Fed budget by weaker cost controls while cost / entitlement expansion is for sure (proposed HCR)?

    Your original posts on this matter convinced me that obviously the second choice – proposed bill – was worse. But now you and many other Fiscal Vigilante like Washington Post Editorial are slowing turning. The worm is turning, but I am not yet convinced fully.

    May be I should not be like some kind of Howard Dean of Centrism and quite my nasal graving here…

    Once again thanks for reporting and solid journalism here.

  • w00diee

    Health care reform is desperately needed. Conservative deniers need to think about that first. If you think paying twice as much for health care as any other country in the world is ok, then continue your claptrap by all means. At least Senator Reid is working in the interests of the people and not himself. But I think Howard Dean has the right notion. Without the government option, we are gaining very little compared to what is possible. So thanks Republican do-nothings for screwing this up for everyone.

  • rustyreturns

    “But while you might think that all this horsetrading would produce a weaker and more bloated bill, it appears that, by some measures at least, the opposite may have happened.”

    .
    Opposite? How exactly? Pilot projects, toothless “Advisory Committees”, the age-old CMS and Secretary of Health and Human Services.
    .
    What the bill does:
    .
    1. Closes the donut hole for Seniors with their drugs (a positive thing, but). A deal struck to stop the passage of the Dorgan Amendment which would have opened up competition further by allowing the sale of prescription drugs from other countries to American citizens. This alone cost us over $100 BILLION DOLLARS as consumers. This amendment alone would have driven down the cost of drugs exponetially. But, liberal Democrats voted it down.
    .
    2. Permits abortion funding. Circumvents the Hyde Amendment, by permitting funding through secondary sources. (So much for Nelson’s need to do the right thing, when in fact he was only after a payoff, a BRIBE for holding out).
    .
    3. Pays for multiple grant programs to fund pilot projects to collect Quality Improvement data.
    .
    4. Protects rural hospitals, and gives subsidies to those hospitals, continuing the Rural Health Initiative. (Being from a rural area, it helps folks like me, but not those in the cities).
    .
    5. Continues health care funding for Native American’s health care programs. (No problems from me on this one).
    .
    6. Bundling of Funds: Karen alluded to this, but in fact it is simply another “pilot project”. They will select about 30 hospitals and various Physician groups to participate. They will pay a lump sum of money, and the hospital / physician group will determine how to spend the money. It may or may not lower the cost of health care, as this has been in use for Home Health companies for years. Most Home Health Companies actually like this method of payment, rather than the PPS payment that currently exists. In my humble opinion, it will not drive down any costs at all.
    .
    7. Allows for huge subsidies of people currently not insured. Approximately 31 Million people. Subsidies start out for those 133% above poverty level and goes down from there. States will be burdened with finding the funding for these new additions to the health care welfare roles. Many States may be so over burdened in new costs, that they will not be able to meet their budgets, and ultimately other services will be cut, and jobs lost. (Exceptions are Lousiana, the “300 Million Dollar Lousiana Purchase of 2009, and Ben Nelson’s Oklahoma, “Price is Right ” deal struck to BUY his vote).
    .
    8. In most cases, the “reforms” do not take place now until 2014 or 2015 in most cases. A change from most things starting in 2013. However, the taxes imposed on various insurance plans as income takes effect immediately. Nothing in the manager’s mark up changes this NEW TAX. So in summary, nothing really changes except that taxes will be increased from 2010 to 2014, with little to no changes occuring. Then in 2014 we will begin seeing the 31 Million uninsured being subsidized.
    .
    9. Mandate: Remains as nothing in the manager’s mark up and revisions changes what was in the previous bill. People will be required to buy health care insurance or pay a “fine”. Cost of the fine is $700 dollars. IMHO, most people who currently do not buy health care insurance will simply pay the fine and move on as usual. No off sets will occur from the “Millions being added to the pool” to lower prices at all. If anything should occur, due to the pre-existing requirements premiums will drastically increase.
    .
    10. Exchanges: I am not done reading it yet, but it looks like exchanges will be put into place. However everything I have read so far limits the exchanges to existing State insurance law. Meaning, if any company wants to set up an insurance branch in a State, the same regulations will be in place. I do not forsee major runs by insurance companies to go into the various States to provide insurance.

  • diecash1

    “at what point is this in reality communism? This is the object of this plan. Health care is just a ploy toward this achievement.”
    ..
    Surely you jest. I think you seriously misunderstand Communism and, apparently, the current health care bills in Congress.
    ..
    Am I to believe that the universal health care coverage that exists in the rest of the World is somehow either voluntary or communism? I think you have this seriously misconstrued.
    ..
    You can see an actual definition of Communism here:
    ..
    Communism

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    thanks. i feel like my job here is to tell people what i’ve found in the bill, and what some of the implications might be. and i think it’s pretty clear that in areas like the ones i raise, reid’s bill is stronger than it was last week.
    .
    but when it comes down to the really big questions that you raise, i think people have to decide on their own. one reason is that they view this bill very differently depending on their own situations. an uninsured person with a pre-existing condition is going to see a very different bill from, say, a small businessperson who thinks this might be what pushes their company over the edge.
    .
    the second is … i honestly don’t know the answers. i wish i could see into the future.

  • http://tomcat11.wordpress.com tomcat11

    The brutal truth is we all want top dollar for whatever good or service we are selling. We also want to pay the least for whatever good or service we need.

    Since there are many more consumers of health care than providers, it is superficially reasonable to allow the gov to take over the industry: controlling supply, pricing, provider compensation, and services provided. All those docs and nurses and technicians and bedpan changers make too much money anyway.

    However, the brutal truth is that the rationale for the gov controlling the health industry works as well for whatever you or I do to make a living.

    The brutal truth is we want the gov to force down the price of what we need to buy. But, we don’t want the gov setting our compensation.

    How do we prevent that?

  • rustyreturns

    “The only reason they think this is the last chance is because the idiot running the country now thinks he is Jesus Christ”.

    .
    Let me rephrase that for you:
    .

    “The only reason they think this is the last chance is because the idiot running the country now thinks he is the ANTI-CHRIST”

    .
    There, now that is a better description. :D

  • 53_3

    The closer it gets to passage, the longer and more windy the Spittle and Froth comments get.
    .
    I’m sure, as we get closer to Christmas that everyone can look for some yuletide death threats I’ve already seen one of those crackpot “Obama the Anti Christ” comments. More to come, I’m sure.
    .
    BTW, if the bill passes, and the new and resident right wing commenters heads do explode, will they be covered, or will it be considered a symptom of a pre-existing condition.
    .
    For that matter, will they have to pass an emergency stopgap measure ensuring that these same commenters get free anger management?
    .
    Stay tuned…

  • rustyreturns

    Unfortunately, “bundling” only works if you want to keep an Amish girl from getting pregnant. See “bundling” here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundling_(tradition)
    .
    I’ll probably get attacked again by PalintheTroll, but in Home Health, “bundling” has been going on for years.
    .
    CMS decided to pay out “lump-sum” payments to Home Health Agencies for people with Medicare A/B. In these lump sum payments, the Agency decides how many times a Nurse or Physical Therapist will go out to see a patient. Pay for bandages and some, but not all supplies. Of course an Agency knows to the dime what expenses truly are, and I can ensure you that the patient will be discharged well before the end of the “episode”, which is in 60 day increments.
    .
    Most Agencies learned quickly how to front load visits to meet the minimum, “5 or more visits”. By doing this they received on average an $1,100 dollar per patient profit. Of course you would have a few patients whose condition required more care, but most were either re-hospitalized for various other reasons, or simply discharged.
    .
    CMS after many years saw the enormous profits being made. They then began instituting “quality measures” which had to be met. Improvements in care quickly met these quality measures, but it was also about that time that HMOs took over in a lot of cases, and an Agency was paid by the visit, and the HMO made the bulk of the “bundling” funds paid to them instead.
    .
    The Government does not have enough resources or infrastructure to manage this type of “overhaul” in the payment process.
    .
    My bet is that yes, you will see less prescribing of tests, and less care rendered to maximize profits by both hospitals and doctors. People will then become more sick, and in the long run, the more sick they become the more times they will be admitted to a hospital.
    .
    Quality outcomes may prevent this from happening, but if I read it right, a Hospital or Doctor will only be on the “hook” so to speak for 30 days. It should be for at minimum 60 days, if not 90 to make any real dent into cost versus quality.

  • 53_3

    It’s funny how brutaltruth1 seems to want to roll back the clock to the early 1800s, invoking various figures from our revolutionary past, while at the same time, completely overlooking the fact that this is 2009, and the HCICs have totally screwed up our health care system.
    .
    The other funny thing is their attempt to conflate the “free market” onto our founding philosophies when Charles Dickens and others have written about the ills of an unfettered, unregulated commercial sector and have even spawned history’s darkest epithet describing it:
    .
    The Dickensian economy.
    .
    How short their memory is and how shallow their real knowledge of our country’s history…

  • http://whatchannelareyouwatching.com Stephen Fofanoff

    I’m fed up. I posted my rant here:

    http://www.whatchannelareyouwatching.com/archives/499

    Feel free to take a look and let me know your thoughts about it.

  • rdt4

    Whatever else, Abortion is an atrocity that terminates the life of innocent Human Beings. I appreciate that there are Men and Women in Congress who are doing what they can to help keep me from being an accessory to Murder by not allowing my paid taxes go towards paying for Abortion.
    Life is a Person’s most fundamental Right, and Abortion (the termination of a pregnancy by the removal or expulsion from the uterus of a Fetus/Embryo, resulting in or caused by its death) denies helpless, innocent Prenatal Children, Human Beings the fundamental Right to Life.
    There have been 40+million Abortions a year worldwide for years, that’s more innocent Lives terminated by Abortion than any other atrocity (according to my resources, an encyclopedia.)
    I pray for a change that will acknowledge a Prenatal Child as the Helpless, Innocent Human Being that it is, worthy of all the protections of the 14th Amendment, the Right to Life.

  • nonnie22

    Health care experts believe this is one of the single most important moves that could bring about a transformation of our health care system.

    Oh, please! “Health care experts”?? Which health care experts are those? One of my biggest beefs with this whole operation, on both sides by the way, has been that there are NO health care experts involved in it. And don’t bother pointing out the senators who used to be doctors! Bunch’a losers, I say.

    I wonder about that bundling of services. If it’s anything like the ‘new and improved’ home care payment system it will just encourage doctors and hospitals to discharge patients prematurely and then divide the profits. What possible difference does it make if hospitals are making profits rather than insurance companies? So long as patient care goes down the tubes Obie, Harry and Nancy will be okay with it, I suppose.

  • discostu570

    Has this story changed since I first read it, or did I just completely miss the part about the HHS Secretary having authority to expand pilots independent of congress?

  • Ivy_B

    Check Monday’s Philadelphia Inquirer for a child who is already born who needs you to show your love and concern by adoption.

  • helmetbreaker

    All the CBO can do is assume the assertions by Reid and the Democrats will happen as stated! Fat chance! This will be the demise of medicare unless they add the deficit to the national deficit, increase taxes dramatically, or ration elderly care! To give Senator Nelson a fat cat increase in Medicaid for his vote is irreproachable! The Democrats all should be compared to the Wall Street criminals, all of them! Thjis is another cog in the demise of American healthcare! Some 60% + of Americans know this but the hooligans aren’t listening as they just want the power, taxes and greed this will generate!

  • umeshgeeta

    Looks like there is more to this story than what meets the eyes. CBO is out with the correction:

    http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=447

    It is not directly related to the point under discussion here, but it does throw open things in the second decade.

    Few on GOP side are already out with charges of ‘corruption’ here. That surely could be hyperbola, but having this controversy at this time is not good. What all it indicates is, some external ‘audit’ of CBO numbers may be warranted and those things in themselves might throw up more surprises. Naturally the legislation can not and should not be stopped for that. But we need some authentic way, commensurate with rights of we tax payers, to validate even these CBO estimates and undertake honest corrections as applicable.

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/12/20/reform-in-health-reform-maybe-not-so-much/ Reform in Health Reform? Maybe Not So Much… – Swampland – TIME.com

    [...] yesterday, I wrote this post saying that the new version of the Senate bill does more to "bend the curve" of health care costs. [...]

  • taftie

    With over 2,000 pages of legalize, it sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors. And they call this the United States of America. It really shoud be the Disunited or Ununited States of America.

  • injuntrouble

    Will you guys shutup about the good stuff in this health care bill? If liberals say anything good about this bill, Lieberman and Ben Nelson will change their minds about voting for it.

    The best thing liberals can do is to produce a complicated bill which nobody understands with a hidden clause that puts the insurance companies out of business.

    Nobody needs the insurance companies – they add no value. Then we should call the bill all kinds of names about being a right-wing give away to corporations.

    That would make not only Lieberman, but even some republicans vote for it.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    please see link to ezra klein post with graphic from the new england journal of medicine.

  • http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/12/22/senate-health-bill-the-economists-are-happy-again/ Senate Health Bill: The Economists Are Happy Again – Swampland – TIME.com

    [...] we did here the other day, they focus on two elements of the bill in particular that they regard as [...]

  • http://needlenose.com/wp/2010/01/04/the-road-ahead-for-healthcare-reform/ Needlenose » Blog Archive » The road ahead for healthcare reform

    [...] negotiations will be essentially identical to what passed the Senate (even if that bill is at least slightly improved over its worst incarnation) — lest it fall prey again to the unpredictable whims of Ben [...]

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