In the Arena

Lieberman’s Health Care Coquetry

I share Joe Lieberman’s opposition to making Medicare available to those in the 55-64 age range. It’s not that I don’t want health care made available to all; it’s that Medicare, as currently constituted, is an unmanaged financial sinkhole. I’d be in favor of Medicare for All if doctors were paid salaries–as the Mayo and Cleveland clinics do–rather than a fee for each service performed. That’s the sort of cost control measure this year’s health care bill needed, and we’ll eventually have to embrace, but which the doctors’ lobby blocked (and our sad, craven Congress didn’t even deign to consider).

But I disagree with Lieberman’s apparent decision–for the time being–to vote against health care reform simply because of this provision. The benefits of the bill far outweigh the problems with it. And the passage of the bill would be just the next step in what must be a continuing process of reform–toward what should be the next health care system: a single payer system with tightly-controlled private insurers (as in Switzerland) and medical personnel paid salaries instead of fees.

In fact, I think Lieberman’s games-playing here should put him in a very tenuous position with the Democratic Party. He was defeated in the Democratic primary and ran for reelection as an Independent 2006; he proceeded to actively support John McCain’s benighted presidential campaign last year. Harry Reid forgave and forgot, and forgot again, and allowed Lieberman to keep his seniority on crucial committees like Armed Services. But this should be a litmus test: if Lieberman doesn’t vote for this bill, he should no longer be considered part of the Democratic caucus; he should be stripped of his seniority and committee assignments.

On the other hand, if Lieberman gets his way and all hint of a public option is stripped from the bill–and several Republicans, like Snow and Collins decide to vote for it, I would still say the same principle applies: a yes vote is indicated. Extending health insurance to all, and ending the insurance companies’ ability to deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions etc, is just too important to vote against.

Related Topics: Health Care, joe lieberman, Uncategorized
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  • constantweader

    It mystifies me that any credible journalist would even pretend to take Joe Lieberman seriously at this point…which allows Mr. Klein to boast he’s an “incredible journalist,” I guess.

    Ezra Klein has a much more serious & substantive take on Lieberman’s latest feint: “At this point, Lieberman…seems willing to cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in order to settle an old electoral score….”

    Matt Yglesias gets it right, too: “The leverage that Lieberman and other ‘centrists’ have obtained on this issue…stems from a demonstrated willingness to embrace sociopathic indifference to the human cost of their actions.”

    The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

  • nflfoghorn

    Joe, given than Joe Isuzu represents most of the insurance companies that base their headquarters in his state, it goes to show that Obviousman has just used his superpowers on you.

    http://www.nonsequitur.com

  • Joe Klein

    Perhaps the two commenters above should try reading past the first paragraph of my post. You’ll see that I’m actually in agreement with Ezra and Matt on this one.

  • richinnj

    Joe Klein said:

    “Medicare, as currently constituted, is an unmanaged financial sinkhole.”

    If you add a younger, healthier, premium paying population to the the pool, Medicare’s financial viability would be enhanced not diminished.

  • chrisnbama

    Unlike some of the liberal cognoscenti, I won’t deign knowledge of Lieberman’s motives. The best I can tell, only Lieberman knows what Lieberman’s end game is.
    -
    I agree with Joe Klein though, when democrats (or in the case of Lieberman, Independents who caucus with democrats) threaten to join a filibuster with republicans to block a key plank of the democratic platform, then it’s time to reconsider their seniority and committee chairmanships.
    -
    Of course, one must be mindful that it was Lieberman’s vote yesterday that broke a republican filibuster on an omnibus spending bill, so ruffling feathers can have unintended consequences.
    _
    I, for one, do not like Joe Lieberman. He comes across as a smarmy popinjay, but he can be useful, so democrats need to find a utilitarian approach with respect to him while at the same time neutering his impact on the all important health care debate.

  • billiecat

    “smarmy popinjay.” Archaic, but effective.

  • rustyreturns

    “The benefits of the bill far outweigh the problems with it.”

    .
    What are those “benefits” as you see them now Joe? Please give us a little more insight as to what YOU think are “benefits” in this bill.
    .

    “Harry Reid forgave and forgot, and forgot again, and allowed Lieberman to keep his seniority on crucial committees like Armed Services. But this should be a litmus test: if Lieberman doesn’t vote for this bill, he should no longer be considered part of the Democratic caucus; he should be stripped of his seniority and committee assignments.”

    .
    Tell it like it is Joe Klein. You are really pi$$ed because Liberman, an Independent does not ALWAYS follow the party meme. Liberman being an Independent chooses to vote on various issues and legislation as he sees fit for the benefit of ALL Americans, rather than the far left extortionists.
    .
    Yes, Liberman risks losing his powerful committee Chairman’s position. However, the Democrat Party is risking much much more in their attempts to pass the most rediculous health care reform bill in our Nation’s history.
    .
    It is not that Joe Liberman is a bad man for not voting yes with the other sheep in the Democrat Party flock. He is bad in your eyes, and the rest of the liberals for not following the meme carte blanc without question.
    .
    I am glad Joe Liberman is in the Senate and can vote no on this totally insane peice of legislation. Now maybe we can go back and write a bill that will benefit us all, and not just the special interests of the lobbyists for the Democrat Party.

  • nflfoghorn

    Isuzu is not an independent anything. He’s totally out for Joe, not his state, not its residents, nobody.

  • nflfoghorn

    I’m guessing you think opening Medicare to more people would break the economy’s back. Well so would two wars going on simultaneously. Oh wait, we just print more $ for war, right? Are they not a couple MORE “sinkholes”?

  • slowp

    I think it’s pretty clear that Lieberman isn’t really a Dem and hasn’t been for some time. (Yes, his vote is always there when it doesn’t matter; so what.) That he’s a self-centered self-righteous bore should come as no surprise to anyone who’s been paying attention to him for any length of time.

    My guess is that he wants to get thrown out of the Dem caucus once and for all to burnish his credentials with Republicans and add to his phony self-styled reputation as the only honest man in America.

    He’s disgusting and the Dems are better off without him. All those who were vilified for supporting Ned Lamont have been justified yet again.

  • charlieromeobravo

    “You are really pi$$ed because Liberman, an Independent does not ALWAYS follow the party meme.”

    That depends on which party you’re referring to. On the signature Democratic issues, Joe always follows the party line, it just happens to be the Republican party. He claims to caucus with the Democrats but he never actually does when it matters.

  • nflfoghorn

    Remember the subtitle in the old Joe Isuzu commercial: “He’s lying.”

  • rustyreturns

    As we know, nflfoghorn, it takes many years to rid oneself of the party bosses. In Joe Liberman’s case, he has won a majority of the voter’s confidence to act in their interests as he sees fit. Not to act in the interest of the party meme.
    .
    People of Connecticutt should be proud they elected a man to office in spite of his party affiliations. I can only hope that more Senate positions start occurring the same way. Electing someone outside of the party in power. It simply adds more to the power of checks and balances.
    .
    In a time when the Democrats controll everything, it is refreshing to see someone act independent of the majority that rules all.

  • nflfoghorn

    To which, Rusty, I politely say baloney. If Isuzu worked against your interests you’d call him a sore loser who does anything he can to keep his job, usually to the delight of those who pay him.

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    Confused. On one had, the Republicans and the Lieberman types are going after the Dems because they want to cut $800b from Medicare over ten years to make it cheaper or whatever. Then they turn around and say we can’t expand Medicare because we can’t afford it? Which is it?

  • sacredh

    I’m starting to think that Lieberman is the “Wandering Jew”. Destined to roam the earth forever without really being a part of it. He’s cursed.

  • rustyreturns

    “Confused. On one had, the Republicans and the Lieberman types are going after the Dems because they want to cut $800b from Medicare over ten years to make it cheaper or whatever. Then they turn around and say we can’t expand Medicare because we can’t afford it? Which is it?”

    .
    For one thing you are “confused” because Republicans do NOT want to cut Medicare at all. They are also not in favor of putting more people into what we all know is a failing insurance program.
    .
    Don’t you get it Cookie Puss?
    .
    It really isn’t rocket science. Medicare is an entitlement program. Medicare is running out of money, and will not be sustainable in the very near future. Adding more people to an already dying program does not make any sense what-so-ever.
    .
    The Democrats not only want to CUT Medicare, but at the same time they want to add MILLIONS of people to it. The numbers simply do not add up.
    .
    Republicans understand that health care reform needs to take on the real problems of health care cost. We pay so much more than any other country. Why is that Cookie Puss? Why are the Democrats not taking on this most important of all problems with health care? Why do they not put their focus on cost, rather than insurance? Do you have a clue, Cookie Puss?

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    Rusty goes to 11. Let me guess, your solution is tort reform?

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I think the problem is that we’ve failed to adequately emphasize the moral component to this legislation. How about finding out what Lieberman’s Rabbi and the members of his synagogue think about his actions, how his wife personally benefits from his actions and how they relate to the moral teachings of the faith in which they both purport to be such devout participants. The religious community overall has been eerily silent on this entire issue, except of course, for trying to hold health care reform hostage to their political agenda on abortion. Some say that health care reform is the civil rights issue of the 21st century, and now like then, the religious community is a little late to the party. However, despite their failure to get in on the ground floor how about now, can we talk about Rabbi’s for health care and by the way, since Israel seems to be the only country Lieberman really cares about, any one know what Israel does about health care? Do they have a public option? And does Liberman find their health options dangerous to Democracy?

  • sy2d
  • sy2d

    Joe Lieberman, “[d]uring his re-election bid in 2006, he lost the Democratic Party primary election but won re-election in the general election as a third party candidate under the party label ‘Connecticut for Lieberman.’ Lieberman has been officially listed in Senate records for the 110th and 111th Congresses as an ‘Independent Democrat’ and sits as part of the Senate Democratic Caucus. But since his speech at the 2008 Republican National Convention in which he endorsed John McCain for president, Lieberman no longer attends Democratic Caucus leadership strategy meetings or policy lunches. …

    On November 7, Lieberman won re-election with 50% of the vote. Ned Lamont garnered 40% of ballots cast and Alan Schlesinger won 10%.[41] Lieberman received support from 33% of Democrats, 54% of independents and 70% of Republicans. …

    Lieberman’s embrace of certain conservative policies and in particular his endorsement of John McCain have been cited as factors for his low approval rating in Connecticut: 38 approval to 54 disapproval. ‘This is the highest disapproval rating in any Quinnipiac University poll in any state for a sitting U.S. Senator — except for New Jersey’s Robert Torricelli, just before he resigned in 2002. Among those who say they voted for Sen. Lieberman in 2006, 30 percent now say they would vote for someone else if they could.’”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman

  • rustdoc

    It would be so sweet if collectively the progressive Senators would follow the lead of Irish Parliament member Paul Gogarty and tell Senator Lieberman exactly what they think.

  • rustdoc
  • fhmadvocat

    rusty,

    Since you like Joe Lieberman so much, you will be happy to know that he supported the Democrats in blocking a Republican filibuster to raise the deficit ceiling and to increase spending.

  • Matt

    The bottom line is that Lieberman appears dead-set against health care reform unless it comes in the form of the Lieberman Bill. He’s closed to anything else.

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

  • fhmadvocat

    Rusty,

    There was a time when Republicans believed you could cut government spending, yet provide the same if not improved governmental services, just as they argued, you could cut taxes, yet increase tax revenue. Are you saying that was all a sham?

    Medicare is going broke and there is something which needs to be done. The Republicans are proposing to do . . . . . . . nothing. I guess the only thing they have learned from the Democrats is to scare seniors and not to deal with the real problems of government.

    Surely you recognize we are going broke and something needs to be done to Medicare and Social Security. Yet the politicians are too scared to tell the American people they can’t have their cake and eat it, too.

    I know you are big on tort reform, but give me one example where it has worked. A number of states have enacted malpractice award caps, yet the doctor’s malpractice rates continue to increase (Insurance rates are not based on claims, but insurance companies profits.)

    The only thing that Republicans are good for is to keep government spending down, and if they are even going to do that, what do we need them for? We don’t need their nanny state for social issues. Maybe Obama needs them to shore up support in Afghanistan, but other than that, they are useless.

  • rustyreturns

    “In 1995 the National Health Insurance Law came into effect, which made membership in one of the four existing Health Maintenance Organizations compulsory for all Israeli citizens. The law determined a uniform benefits package (סל בריאות) for all citizens – a list of medical services and treatments which each of the Health Maintenance Organizations is required to fund for its members. Additionally, certain services were brought under the direct administration of the State, usually by means of the Health Ministry. In addition, the law set out a system of public funding for health care services by means of a progressive health tax, administered by Bituah Leumi, Israel’s social security organization, which transfers funding to the Health Maintenance Organizations according to a certain formula based on the number of members in each fund, the age distribution of members, and a number of other indices. The Health Maintenance Organizations also receive direct financing from the states money.”

    .
    You will be happy to note that Israel does provide Government backed insurance for all of it citizens. The better question would be does it also afford the same coverages to Palestinians as well?
    .
    Or, does Israel simply provide health care insurance for all it’s citizens from the massive subsidies we give that country, and thereby they pay for each citizens health care out of those subsidies?
    .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Israel
    .

  • palininatowel

    Lieberman doesn’t want to provide health care to the uninsured, but he’s all for more war, particularly when it comes to Iran. He’s a neocon on foreign policy, willing to sink our country into deep financial hole to support his perverse desire to smash any Muslim threat.

    Lieberman was right there with Dick Cheney and the neocon gang arguing vociferously for a military strike against Iran before Bush left office. Even the notoriously distracted, disinterested Bush wouldn’t pull the trigger on that reckless endeavor, despite Cheney’s pleadings.

    Lieberman is, was and always will be about one thing: Joe Lieberman. He is one of the most selfish people in Washington, and that’s saying something considering the sad sack crew that occupies the U.S. Senate.

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    I am also shocked that nothing was done to sanction Liberman despite his continued ‘misbehavior’ and apparent complete lack of loyalty to the democratic party.
    He fancies himself the “McCain aka Maverick” of the Democrats.. bleh. Someone should remind Liberman that just because he got elected as an Independent and has been allowed to go rogue on a continuing basis does not make him a maverick. All it shows is that Reid and the Democratic party need to close ranks and do some serious Liberman damage control because Libermann is a loose cannon.
    Even if this “rogue rep” is restrained on this Healthcare vote, I shudder to think about what other antics he will come up with in the future. Lieberman quite simply put is a political liability for the Democrats. Sadly, unlike McCain whose loss appears to have sobered him up (somewhat at least), Leiberamann continues to outdo himself by his unpredictability on issues and stupefying position on key issues such as Healthcare.
    I do not know whether Leiberman is hoping to be remembered in American history as the nut who thwarted key provisions in the Obama Healthcare reform bill or whether he just wants to pose and posture to garner more power in the party. Either way, Reid and his colleagues need to do something to reign him in or negotiate something with him. Yes, I wrote negotiate… is that not how come Hillary is Secretary of State?
    It is obvious Leibermann wants something… lets hope someone can get to him and resolve this “Mavericky nonsense” soon.

    LM

    http://chiefadvocate1.wordpress.com/2009/12/05/if-you-are-criminalized-stalked-abused-tracked-and-harassed-by-criminals-using-technology-the-law-is-on-your-side/

  • Art Pepper

    I may be losing track of the “debate,” but wasn’t expanding Medicare the compromise for getting rid of the (itself already compromised) public option?

    I have an idea: Instead of expanding Medicare, establish a public option.

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    Oops, sorry, my comment above posted before I had a chance to review it for errors and do a spell check !!!!! :(

    LM

    http://chiefadvocate1.wordpress.com/2009/12/05/if-you-are-criminalized-stalked-abused-tracked-and-harassed-by-criminals-using-technology-the-law-is-on-your-side/

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    Ooops!! I did not mean to post this comment above before checking the spellings and grammar. I will attempt to correct and repost it below. :)

    LM

    http://chiefadvocate1.wordpress.com/2009/12/05/if-you-are-criminalized-stalked-abused-tracked-and-harassed-by-criminals-using-technology-the-law-is-on-your-side/

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    REPOST:

    It is incredible that absolutely nothing has been done to sanction Lieberman despite his continued ‘misbehavior’ and apparent complete lack of loyalty to the democratic party.

    He fancies himself the “McCain aka Maverick” of the Democrats.. bleh. Someone should remind Lieberman that just because he got elected as an Independent and has been allowed to go rogue on a continuing basis does not make him a maverick.

    I think “Rabble Rouser” would be a better description for his conduct. :)

    Reid and the Democratic party need to close ranks and do some serious Lieberman damage control because Lieberman is a loose cannon. At least he acts like one for the most part.

    Anyway, even if this “rogue rep” is restrained on this Health care vote, I shudder to think about what other antics he will come up with in the future.
    Lieberman quite simply put is a political liability for the Democrats. Sadly, unlike McCain whose loss appears to have sobered him up (somewhat, at least), Lieberman continues to outdo himself by his unpredictability on issues and stupefying position on key issues such as Health care.

    I do not know whether Lieberman is hoping to be remembered in American history as the nut who thwarted key provisions in the Obama Health care reform bill or whether he just wants to pose and posture to garner more power in the party.

    Either way, Reid and his colleagues need to do something to reign him in or negotiate something with him. Yes, I wrote negotiate… is that not how come Hillary is Secretary of State?

    It is obvious Lieberman wants something… lets hope someone can get to him and resolve this “Mavericky nonsense” soon.

    I am sure most people are tired of seeing Lieberman’s unending posturing especially in this case when it could adversely affect a key initiative of the President.

    LM

    http://chiefadvocate1.wordpress.com/2009/12/05/if-you-are-criminalized-stalked-abused-tracked-and-harassed-by-criminals-using-technology-the-law-is-on-your-side/

  • shepherdwong

    …Medicare, as currently constituted, is an unmanaged financial sinkhole.”
    .
    Unmanaged or managed for profit, it’s the mostly private-insurance-based health care system of the United States that’s the financial sinkhole (that’s why we’re here), Medicare is about as cost-effective as it gets.

  • stuartzechman

    Joe Klein:
    .
    Thanks so much for responding to commentary.
    .
    Even brief clarifications such as this one greatly enhance the value of your blog posts.

  • rustyreturns

    fhmadvocat:
    .
    As usual, your Democrat meme is simply to regurgitate the attacks on Republicans who want to simply prevent more failed entitlement programs.
    .
    Yet, you do not have any concrete answers for the problem as well, except to throw more money at the problem.
    .
    Nothing in the Democrat proposed bill curbs or cuts cost. Nothing in the Democrat proposed bill will address the out of control cost of health care. Yet, the answer is to add more people to an already failed program.
    .
    Is that your only answer fhmadvocat? Simply throw TRILLIONS of tax payer dollars at a problem we all know is going to get worse if we do not act now to stop the out of control cost.
    .
    Tort is only one small part of real reforms that can be used to go after costs. Unfortunately you are empowered by the trial lawyer lobbyists, and simply regurgitate their claims. Show your own proof that it will not work, fhmadvocat. Do you have proof that Tort Reform will not work? I didn’t think so, otherwise you could cite where Tort has not decreased the cost of Health Care Insurace. When I say cite your source, that means a real study that has been completed and verified that tort reform does not work. You simply just say the cost of malpractice insurance continues to go up. But, you also neglect to cite sources that show those States that have initiated tort reform have at least stopped the high cost of malpractice insurance and overall insurance has become cheaper for the consumer.
    .
    Want to cite your sources?
    .
    Here is one of mine from a WaPo article out of the recent CBO findings.
    .
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/09/AR2009100904271.html

  • shepherdwong

    The other reason we’re here being that the mostly private-insurance-based health care system of the United States doesn’t always provide, you know, health care, something that the Medicare system does pretty much without fail.

  • darkskin1977

    “The benefits of the bill far outweigh the problems with it.”

    Actually, it’s the other way round, problems with the bill far outweigh the benefits.

    But, homocrats/pseudo journalists don’t get that!

    Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/12/14/liebermans-health-care-coquetry/#ixzz0Zh1BXtRh

  • darkskin1977

    So, when is the Next Time Obama cover due?

  • fhmadvocat

    Rusty, Rusty,

    You want a source why malpractice tort reform won’t work?

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_gawande?printable=true

    Here is my favorite part about medical malpractice, is this discussion between the author of the article, a doctor and six physicians in McAllen, Texas, the place with the highest per capita spending for medicare patients:

    “Some were dubious when I told them that McAllen was the country’s most expensive place for health care. I gave them the spending data from Medicare. In 1992, in the McAllen market, the average cost per Medicare enrollee was $4,891, almost exactly the national average. But since then, year after year, McAllen’s health costs have grown faster that any other market in the country, ultimately soaring by more than ten thousand dollars per person.
    “‘Maybe the service is better here,’ the cardiologist suggested. People can be seen faster and get their tests more readily, he said.
    “Others were skeptical. ‘I don’t think that explains the costs he’s talking about,’ the general surgeon said.
    “‘It’s malpractice,’ a family physician who had practiced here for thirty-three years said.
    “‘McAllen is legal hell,’ the cardiologist agreed. Doctors order unnecessary tests just to protect themselves, he said. Everyone thought the lawyers here were worse than elsewhere.
    “That explanation puzzled me. Several years ago, Texas passed a tough malpractice law that capped pain-and-suffering awards at $250,000. Didn’t the lawsuits go down?
    “‘Practically to zero,” the cardiologist admitted.
    “‘Come on,’ the general surgeon finally said, ‘We all know these arguments are bullsh*t. There is overutilization here, pure and simple.’ Doctors, he said, were racking up charges with extra tests, services, and procedures.”

    See, Rusty, even with malpractice reform, even though malpractice suits were non-existant, McAllen, Texas charges more per patient in Medicare and the costs keep going up. And the preventative medicine argument is BS, right ouf for the doctor’s own mouth!

    Furthermore, the world is no so simplistic as conservatives want to spend less, liberals want to spend more.

    If you have bothered to read my other posts, you would know I am for cutting of spending. I even posted that the only thing I liked from George Bush was Social Security reform and that all the Democrats did was scare old folks (that maybe a generational thing as I am Generation X).

    When it comes to economics, I am actually conservative on government spending (My wife accuses me of secretly being a Republican). Where I am liberal, is, if the government is going to spend money, I would rather it go to helping poor people rather than rich people

  • http://trevoro.com/liebermans-health-care-coquetry-swampland-timecom/ Lieberman's Health Care Coquetry – Swampland – TIME.com

    [...] the original post: Lieberman's Health Care Coquetry – Swampland – TIME.com Categories: Health, Object Tags: currently-constituted, far-enough, lieberman, people, [...]

  • http://dridder.com/html/y2009/75.html Lieberman's Health Care Coquetry – Swampland – TIME.com | Health Blog

    [...] the article here: Lieberman's Health Care Coquetry – Swampland – TIME.com age-range-, care-made, currently-constituted, health, lieberman, medicare, the-55-64, [...]

  • mxyzptlk1953

    How can you not take Lieberman seriously when Reid and Obama are letting him derail the train?

  • mxyzptlk1953

    Exactly. If the premiums are set at the correct rate, there will be no cost beyond whatever subsidies the bill requires no matter how you’re insured. Further, since it will be cheaper than private insurance, the subsidies will cost less thus the cost to taxpayers is less.

  • sacredh

    homocrats
    .
    That gave me a chuckle. I’ve never heard that one before. What’s next? Republicunts?

  • http://liberalspin.wordpress.com darkskin1977

    Medicare and cost-effective should not be used in the same sentence, unless the definitions of the word “cost-effective” itself has changed!

  • http://liberalspin.wordpress.com darkskin1977

    When repulicans start supporting the cunt’s causes, we can start using that too :D

  • http://wordenworld.wordpress.com euandus2

    It is no accident that one Senator can be an obstructionist. He, and the filibuster for that matter, remind us that the governmental sovereignty allowed the state governments is what is really represented in the US Senate (unlike in the US House of Reps). There is a trade off in wiping this out in favor of making the US Senate on the principles of the US House…trade offs given the scale of the US. For this argument, pls see http://euandus3.wordpress.com/2009/12/14/will-there-be-a-health-reform-bill-out-of-the-us-senate/

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