In the Arena

Palin Drone

The Washington Post devotes valuable op-ed space today to Sarah Palin, who uses it to denounce “politicized science”:

I’ve always believed that policy should be based on sound science, not politics.

Okay. But she’s not denouncing the politicized, oil-drenched policies of the Bush Administration. She’s joining the right-wing hysteria chorus, which has launched a new attack on the science of climate change based on some embarrassing and disgraceful emails written by scientists at the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit. For a more accurate account of the import of those emails, check out Tom Friedman’s column in the NY Times.

In the end, I’m slightly mystified by the passion this arouses on the right–although much of it, I assume, is oil- lubricated. What sort of people would be willing to place a significant bet on the lives of their grandchildren? (Answer: those more interested in short-term corporate profits.) What sort of people don’t understand that lowering our dependence on foreign oil is in the long-term national security interests of the country? (Answer: those who have no problem with an oil-based, neo-imperialist foreign policy.)

In much of the rest of the world, conservation is a conservative cause. In the United States, Charles Krauthammer and a handful of other conservatives favor a gasoline tax to lower carbon emissions (refundable in the form of an income tax break). There are, as always, semi-legitimate fears that government will overstep and use carbon emission controls as a sledgehammer to stifle private enterprise–but there are also legitimate expectations that controls will give birth to a shiny, new, job-generating green economy. And make no mistake, despite the East Anglia kerfuffle, the preponderance of real science indicates that a serious, man-made climate change problem exists; it is the preponderance of politicized science that denies it.

Related Topics: Sarah Palin
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  • palininatowel

    Sarah Palin writing about science is like Tiger Woods writing about monogamy.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    When the hell did op-ed space in the Post become valuable?

  • hellslittlestangel

    It’s been a long time since OpEd space at the Post could be considered valuable. Just today it has Kathleen Parker talking up Mr. Frothy as a presidential candidate, Michael Gerson lamenting Mike Huckabee’s tragic victimization by the murder of four police officers, and whatever fatuous drivel Dana Milbank has spewed. Regular contributors include the hateful Charles Krazyhammer, Anne Applebaum, pompous liar George Will, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, Charles Lane, Robert Samuelson, Fred Hiatt, ccused sexual harasser Richard Cohen and the and senile idiot David “Hurry up and make a decision – even if its wrong” Broder. To keep things lively, they have a vast stable of guest-jackasses and part-time chickenhawks to fill in on their pundits’ off days.
    For the life of me, I can’t understand why Eugene Robinson sticks around at the Post.

  • jacobstoatgobbler

    Why is the Post feeling the necessity to show the Right-leaning bent of it’s Editorial Direction and legitimizing the failed one?

    Along with the Petrochemical Alliance-sponsored Saudi-Arabian Copenhagen diversion (not very subtle, was it), the divide-and-obfuscated rage-at–the-left-has-stolen-the-Green-Movement conspiracist Lord Monckton (a Thatcherite), it seems main street rightism has fallen for the If-I-Shout-Loud-Enough-I’ll-Win-The-Hearts-and-Minds-of-the-People-who-least-understand-the-problem-but have-guns Demographic in the hope that Oprahville is the New Politics.

    A blatant – nay Fauxesque – kowtowing 2012 Presidential Campaign launch parading as legitimate political discourse. Just how did she manage that dash to Alaska again? Washington Post – impartial – not.

  • constantweader

    Thanks for calling this one out, Joe, tho it’s a little dangerous to use the word “hysteria” in referring, even obliquely, to Palin — a sexist label which may cause her to get, well, hysterical.

    Ambinder provides an “annotated version” of Palin’s op-ed; fer instance:

    With the publication of damaging e-mails from a climate research center in Britain, the radical environmental movement appears to face a tipping point.
    – Sarah Palin…

    … By ‘radical,’ Palin means the overwhelming scientific consensus — virtually every major science academy in the country. — Marc Ambinder

    The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

  • gysgt213

    I bet Sarah Palin doesn’t even read the WAPO.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    I don’t know what Palin means by “sound science” but if she is referring to the scientific method then shouldn’t the facts speak for themselves? It doesn’t really matter what someone wrote in an email. If Dr. Palin knows what the real cause of global warming is, why doesn’t she put it in a scientific paper and publish it in the public domain, so the science can move on?

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Neither do I.

  • sacredh

    “Dr. Palin”
    .
    I’ll see you a dinosaur and raise you a caveman riding on it.

  • grollican

    I think Palin’s probably mistress number 73. She has the vacant-eyed white trash look that Tiger seems to favor. And obviously she didn’t write the article in question. That would demand work, and we all know that the Quitter can’t abide an honest day’s labor.

  • grollican

    There’s a reason why every issue of WaPo comes with a free packet of crayons…..

  • destor23

    Wow. She’s blinded us with science.

    I look forward to her column on evolution.

  • profsj

    Joe,

    I would like to explain how the “Right” (As you characterized it generally) is connecting the dots to balk at climatology.

    I can most definitely shed some light on the thinking process (No puns in frustration about the murkiness of that please). Not because I am a Professional or a Professor or whatever- I just understand it.

    But would you listen?

    Prof SJ

  • palininatowel

    Derek,
    .
    Just was handed a copy of Sarah Palin’s scientific paper on the causes of climate change:
    .
    Well, hey there, America! It seems some folks think that we’re getting warmer! But are we? I just went outside here in Mantooka, Minnesota where I’m stopping on my book signing bus tour and, gosh, is it ever cold!!!! It’s minus 12 right now!!!!
    .
    Does that sound like “global warming” to you? Me neither! I think these scientists are full of malarkey withe their socialist agendas and plans to limit Joe Six Pack from driving his Ford F-150 down to the liquor store or mini-mart to grab a twelver of Coors, also, while these crazy so-called scientists try and make us walk everywhere or ride our bikes because, oh, dirving is soooo soooo bad, you know?
    .
    Ever try to carry a case of Coors Tall Boys while riding a bike? It’s darn near impossible, by golly, though I’ve seen some of the kids do it when I was still up there in Alaska where I could see Russia and stuff, and those kids would take that case of beer out to the lake there and next thing you know, some girl would end up pregnant so I’m not in favor of lowering the drinking age and I am in favor of making it harder for those darn kids to get alcohol that makes them do things they probably shouldn’t be doing but that me and Todd did back in the day if you catch my drift.
    .
    So what do those phony “scientists” know anyway because it sure is cold up here in Minnesota right now. Hey! There’s Michelle Bachmann! Hi, Michelle!
    .
    Listen, gotta run but we know darn well there’s no such thing as man-made climate change and it sure as heck isn’t getting warmer, certainly not here in Minnesota until summertime when “The Land of 1,000 Lakes” is warm and you can go swimming in one of the thousand lakes (did they really count them?) like we used to do when were younger with a case of beer and a little skinny-dipping which is how young girls get pregnant and I should know and you should ask Todd about that.
    .
    Also.

  • sacredh

    grollican: You’ve been on a roll. I’ve been enjoying your posts. I hope you do some posts on the next “1000 Words”.

  • grollican

    It’s easy,. Prof. You take some fake think tanks, paid for by big Oil, you add the odd crank and unscrupulous nut-job to run them, throw in some lies about how big government wants to rape Joe Sixpack’s family and burn his house down, and watch the wing-nuts start slobbering.

  • sacredh

    Palin: Science up here in Alaska means taking a hundred cartons of Sudafeds and turning them into something useful.

  • alaskanturkey

    It’s fun to bash newspapers, but I’ll stand up for the Post any day. Compared to many of the rags on the newstand, the Post seems divinely inspired. Here’s looking at you NY Post and USA Today. And even you lately, Star-Ledger and Baltimore Sun. Don’t even try to compare to other DC papers like the Times or the Examiner, you’ll just start crying.

  • freeinpa

    JK:

    Maybe you can go back into the TIME archives and get the Cover and article that gave us the “science” on global freezing. And I would guess we now have chicken little touting global warming using the same data as chicken little screaming global freezing.

    And is this the same WaPo that gives precious space to Eugene Robinson who did not have a problem with Tiger Woods committing adultery or the woman’s homewrecking but with the fact they all looked like “Barbie”.

    Yes you are all serious journalists, if you worked for Archie Comic books

  • palininatowel

    Or maybe Joe can go further back in the archives and find the cover that pronounced smoking cigarettes as the key to greater health.
    .
    What’s your point, free?
    .
    Science, like the world, is not static.

  • freeinpa

    palinatowel

    “Science, like the world, is not static.”

    DING DING DING. You had a cogent thought, unknowingly no doubt but congrats.

    30 years ago its was freezing (from the science) 30 years later its warming. The point is climate is cyclical wait 30 years and a mentally-deranged Joe Klein (Sorry he’s there now ) will scream global freezing.

    Science is not static. Models are just models and are flawed.

  • grollican

    Freepie, that’s some quality horseshit you’ve excreted. Global cooling was never a mainstream prediction by the overwhelming consensus of science. It was based on one article, whose writer admitted later that he got the data wrong. I realize that as a right-winger you don’t care about truth, but I suggest you quit peddling lies where more intelligent people can watch you exposing yourself as a lazy, selfish fuckwit. Why don’t you try RedState? They’ve got an amazing assortment of illiterate cretins over there, and you should feel like you’re coming home. if you want supernaturally stupid – Sarah Palin has a Facebook page, where she occasionally posts dishonest scrawls by other wingnuts. You might even get to write an article for her.

  • oboe14

    You can whine all you want about climate deniers, but you can’t deny those East Anglia e-mails reveal an extremely politicized scientific community. Let’s call them “Scienticians.”

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Ahh the good ole days. ‘cept we drank Bud.

  • palininatowel

    Right, free, there is no such thing as accumulated knowledge over time.
    .
    The Earth is flat, is it not?

  • kathy

    Joe – an example of a “disgraceful” email please? My best understanding is that the science was sound, and the “trick” was a way of minimizing the now misleading information on tree ring-temperature correlation, which is no longer accurate. That adjustment was described in the literature, as I understand.

    The ONLY comfort in the crazies on the right seizing on the notion that climate change is a fraud, is the sad truth that they’ll be proved wrong all too soon. And have been proved wrong as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

    I think the rejection of this on the right is tied to a Christian fundamentalist notion that God is going to protect us and that humans are too insignificant to be able to affect the climate – coupled, of course, with a mostly intentional ignorance of real science.

  • square1

    ut you can’t deny those East Anglia e-mails reveal an extremely politicized scientific community.

    Hell, yes, I can deny it. All those emails reveal is that scientists who have spent years of their life in the pursuit of objective truths about the world, often sacrificing significantly greater financial rewards in favor of the rewards of credibility and renown throughout the scientific community, don’t want to give any legitimacy to crackpot pseudo-scientists.

  • adamjd

    What mystifies me as well is that the main point of contention for conservatives is not “whether climate change is happening”, but whether mankind is the cause.

    It’s like a lung cancer patient who could care less about the cancer, but swears up and down it wasn’t the cigarettes that did it.

  • grollican

    Dr Palin? As in Dr Evil, perhaps? Welcome to my underground, salmon-scented Alaskan lair……

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    freeinpa– here is a good look at the global cooling science, versus global warming today: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/01/the-global-cooling-myth/

  • winski

    Let’s go Joe….tell the truth here… This is not sister trying to make a point – it’s her staff trying to get some publicity at the expense of ANY kind of journalism or editorial necessity or rationality (other than trying to make points with Murdoch) by the new publishers of the WaPo (maybe for a sale to News Corp??)

    Sister is just not mentally capable of writing this kind of stuff because she barely knows how to walk and wave at the same time much less thinks about what happens outside billy’s jet !!! Get a clue….

    Strictly a publicity stunt..and a BAD one at that – for sister and the WaPo….

  • grollican

    No, not at all. The emails reveal the usual professional bitching and whining, but nothing unscientific or fraudulent. They are about as relevant as gossip about colleagues over a cup of coffee. But of course, wingnuts just don’t understand how reality works.

  • grollican

    Indeed. As we all know, Sarah Palin doesn’t even know the difference between a bus and a plane. All those hours the McCain team spent with flashcards and simple catch-phrases simply produced an information overload and the poor creature is just spinning in circles with smoke emerging from her nether regions.

  • hellslittlestangel

    I’m glad to see that the word “horseshit” is now permitted. Hard to discuss politics without it.

  • freeinpa

    Birthers of the left.

    You have nothing to loise but your ignorance.

    Nice link. What Daily Kos didn’t post today on global warming.

  • grollican

    Still sucking on those tea-bags, Freepie? Who taught you that new word you used? “Ignorance” is two syllables more than you usually manage.

  • grollican

    When talking to Freepie, the term horseshit is inevitable. Hard to discuss the product of a horse’s ass without it…..

  • richinnj

    The latest chapter in Palin’s up is downism.

  • textee

    Evidently, Klein doesn’t read Time magazine. Enjoy this bit from said magazine:

    “As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

    “Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7° F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University’s Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.

    “Scientists have found other indications of global cooling. For one thing there has been a noticeable expansion of the great belt of dry, high-altitude polar winds —the so-called circumpolar vortex—that sweep from west to east around the top and bottom of the world. Indeed it is the widening of this cap of cold air that is the immediate cause of Africa’s drought. By blocking moisture-bearing equatorial winds and preventing them from bringing rainfall to the parched sub-Sahara region, as well as other drought-ridden areas stretching all the way from Central America to the Middle East and India, the polar winds have in effect caused the Sahara and other deserts to reach farther to the south. Paradoxically, the same vortex has created quite different weather quirks in the U.S. and other temperate zones. As the winds swirl around the globe, their southerly portions undulate like the bottom of a skirt. Cold air is pulled down across the Western U.S. and warm air is swept up to the Northeast. The collision of air masses of widely differing temperatures and humidity can create violent storms—the Midwest’s recent rash of disastrous tornadoes, for example.” http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html

  • palininatowel

    This must be the new talking point. The cement-head crew is trotting this one out all over today.
    .
    Your link is from 1974, textee. It’s 35-years-old. Like freeinpa, above, you seem to believe that scientific knowledge is static — “frozen” in time (to play off your weak link) — kind of like you and the rest of you anti-science, anti-fact pals.
    .
    See you at the Creationist Museum!

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    Did the last ice age occur before or after Jesus was riding through the Holy Land on a stegosaurus?

  • palininatowel

    My great-great-great-great-great grandfather was alive at the dawn of time, 6,000 years ago. One of the letters he left behind (no, not the “Left Behind” series) describes watching Jesus ride a Tyrannosaurus Rex to a win at Pimlico.

  • sacredh

    The Palin threads do give us a chance to let er’ rip. My kingdom for a Palin “1000 Words”.

  • freeinpa

    Hard to discuss JK columns without it

  • sacredh

    Bash Tiger all you want, but nobody can deny he is the best at putting it in the hole.

  • freeinpa

    textee:

    Don’t you realize the science changes to match the panic!

    They decided the crisis, they corrupted the science, they got caught. Next will be its old news, or taken out of context then ready for the name calling.

    Imagine how many subpoenas Waxman would be issuing if this was something contrived by the right

    You would have to cut down 2 Rain Forests worth of timber for the paper.

  • Matt

    How is Palin not participating in the same “politics” she is railing against the in the op-ed? She and her right-wing friends are using climate change as a political tool.

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

  • palininatowel

    sacred,
    .
    It really does give new meaning to the crowd shouts of, “IN THE HOLE!” every time Tiger putts…
    .
    Thanks for pointing that out.

  • sacredh

    That’ll make his putter stand up.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    The emails really aren’t troubling. As the Washington Post had reported:

    In the one most quoted, the director of the Climate Research Unit (CRU), Phil Jones, talks about using a “trick” to “hide the decline”. At first reading, this easily translates as “deceiving [politicians, other scientists, everyone] into believing the world is warming when it is actually cooling”.

    But it doesn’t mean that at all. Jones is talking about a line on a graph for the cover of a World Meteorological Organisation report, published in 2000, which shows the results of different attempts to reconstruct temperature over the past 1,000 years. The line represents one particular attempt, using tree-ring data for temperature. The method agrees with actual measurements before about 1960, but diverges from them after that – for reasons only partly understood, discussed in the literature.

    The tree-ring measure declines, but the actual temperatures after 1960 go up. They draw the line to follow the tree-ring reconstruction up to 1960 and the measured temperature after that. The notes explain that the data are “reconstructions, along with historical and long instrumental records”. Not very clear perhaps, but not much of a “trick”.

    -
    http://mediamatters.org/blog/200912090002

  • freeinpa

    grollican:

    You must be using IQ0.0 computer

    Everything you type comes up as Blah blah blah

  • jacobstoatgobbler

    When they started charging by the inch (Said he trying to avoid a Tiger Woods Snark)

  • jacobstoatgobbler

    Shouldn’t that be Scientologists?
    Creationologists?
    Nuculur Fisticysts?
    Whatever – I can see Russia from my house except I’m not there much any more – neither is Todd, oddly enough.

  • http://www.ghostnote.com Cookie Puss

    Jimmy the Greek boxed an awesome Jesus-John the Baptist exacta that day.

  • nflfoghorn

    I’m still lost on the fact that people still take this under-intellectual numbskull of a woman seriously.

  • jacobstoatgobbler

    English is so hard to decipher, particularly when it’s not your first language. . . . .Colloquilaisms, odd spellings full of colour, mathematics, interesting pronunciations like lieutenant etc…..truly a mystery.

  • nflfoghorn

    She’s bashed for saying too much (i.e., when she opens her mouth). He’s bashed for saying far too little.

  • sacredh

    I’m pretty ashamed of this one:
    .
    Who has holes in his hands and sings “Oh Lonesome Me”?
    .
    Jesus of Nashville.

  • sacredh

    It’s like free sample day at the whorehouse. You know you shouldn’t but it’s just too hard to resist.

  • nflfoghorn

    Depending on your viewpoint, we’re really heating up like Veronica or freezing like Betty.

  • nflfoghorn

    Cue the Tiger reference.

  • nflfoghorn

    Not as bad as those football fans after Florida’s loss mocking the Gators’ quarterback with their own eye-black slogan: “Bama 32:13.”

  • michaelfury

    “policy should be based on sound science, not politics”

    Agreed, Ms. Palin:

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

  • sacredh

    You have to admit that seeing a guy worth a billion dollars screw up so badly because he let the little head rule the big head makes us all feel a little better about ourselves. I’d never cheat on my wife and not just because she would blow both heads off with a shotgun. My little punkin’ takes our vows seriously.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Amazing how these Inesteens still confuse Tina with Sarah. And they are the allknowing.

  • shepherdwong

    “…disgraceful emails written by scientists at the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit.”
    .
    You’re getting your facts from Tom, “Afghanistan is adopting a special needs child” Friedman? He’s an idiot. And you’re a jackass. Again.

  • pintortwo

    Yeah, it’s unfair, a cheap-shot. Who knows how it was edited. I don’t care…
    Enjoy:
    .

  • theotherjimmyolson

    So, someone declared this an open thread?

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    1,000 words doesn’t scratch the surface. Boy this gal sure seems to generate a lot of attention. And this is only one thread. And her book just keeps on selling. I think it’s funny. But then again what do I know. I’m just your average everyday backwood hick. I’m still trying to figure out how a few words on facebook can cause the senate and congress to rewrite a healthcare bill. Is that the definition of the tail wagging the dog?

  • rustyreturns

    Joe Klein says:
    .

    “In the end, I’m slightly mystified by the passion this arouses on the right–although much of it, I assume, is oil- lubricated. What sort of people would be willing to place a significant bet on the lives of their grandchildren?”

    .
    Joe you can’t understand the passion because you totally lack any passion. “Oil-lubricated”?? Perhaps you confuse it with the silicon balls you have swinging since you were castrated many years ago. It simply has to do with an Administration that is hell-bent on creating a crisis where none exists. To as you put it…
    .

    –but there are also legitimate expectations that controls will give birth to a shiny, new, job-generating green economy.

    .
    It is really about creating a whole new “shiny” economy, filled with big fat Al Gore Global Warming jobs, isn’t it Joe? Do you think they will hire you in this new socialist world of freaks to be the “head” writer? I am sure if you get down on your knees, Joe, good ‘ol Al will set you right up with a “nice shiny new job”. Perhaps, just kissing his big fat a$$ will get your jollies off Joe!!
    .
    But, the fear-mongering left, shouting out chicken-little statements like….”oh no, it’s warming. It is almost a full degree higher in temperature “averages” for the past 30 some years”!!
    .
    That is it Joe. Not even ONE DEGREE warmer. That is all that you can prove. Please cite your sources Joe that show data that the planet is in peril. Oh that’s right, You and all the rest of the left-nuts can’t even prove that anything is happening at all. Nada, zilch, NOTHING. The only thing that Joe Klein and his twiddle-dee/twiddle dumb followers like palinatowel-troll, IQ53 who wouldn’t know climate from weather if he filled his tub full of snowballs, or the rest of the far left loons here shouting out the Obama “global warming / climate change” meme. It’s a ruse, my lame loony left friends. Nothing shy of “redistribution” of other people’s wealth.
    .
    You all really should pay more attention and listen to the “ex-Green Jobs Czar”, Van Jones. He has spelled it all out for you.
    .

  • jymallyn

    The Crapo article in Time was from 1974 and Nixon was President.

    What else would you expect other than mistakes and stupidity?

  • theotherjimmyolson

    Go…………Away.

  • sacredh

    2/3rds: Join the club. I’m a backwoods hick too. If you’re ever out my way and see a big guy with a crew cut riding around on a John Deere tractor with a John Deere ballcap and matching t-shirt on with a 4WD drive extended cab Ford truck in the driveway, that’s me. There’s a church next door. I don’t attend, but I do honk the horn once in awhile when I drive by.

  • Art Pepper

    Well, Sarah Palin has reviewed the scientific literature and made her pronouncement. I guess that settles the matter.

  • sacredh

    theotherjimmyo: All the Palin threads wind up as a free for all.

  • theotherjimmyolson

    I hope the denialist are all young and healthy enough to survive ’til the jury comes in and their grandchildren tearfully ask, “Why, grandpa, why did you do it. How could you?”

  • rustyreturns

    Not to get too technical, freeinpa. But, I think it’s truthers, not birthers of the left.
    .
    You know, the one’s like Van Jones the ex-Green Jobs Czar, who has been touting the flawed and discredited “Climate Change” science?
    .
    One cannot expect much from the lunatic lefty loons. They are sheep. Following like good little boys and girls for the liberal left Leaders. While big fat Al Gore has pocketed over 200 million of their hard earned dollars, now they want to give it to Obama to spend on his Cap n Tax Bill. A bill that will increase in his own words their electricity bills “significantly”. You know, paying out over a THOUSAND DOLLARS A MONTH to Obama in energy excise taxes so that Obama can pi$$ it all away like he did on the first stimulus bill.
    .
    But, his time is indeed limited. A 2010 election will stop the Obama madness and put the left-nuts back into their holes in the ground.

  • jymallyn

    Wow and thank you.
    It is amazing that the interviewer was able to keep a straight face while listening to the stupidity of the Pallinites. They make Leno’s “JayWalkers” look intelligent by comparision.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    I don’t care who you are, that’s just plain stupid.

  • jymallyn

    Since your brought up the messy subject, it is likely that the Palinites will discover that Trig has a higher IQ than his mother. It is probably why they don’t feel threatened by Sarah.
    And I am waiting for the remnants of the “Moral Majority” to discover that Palin’s poster child for American morality and responsibilty is her bastard grandson.
    (Note: that is the technical use of the term and not a description of her political philosophy.)

  • http://markharrisltd.wordpress.com markharrisltd

    Sarah Palin’s diary for today probably reads: Yesterday I wrote some nonsense about global warming because my demon told me that evolution is wrong. Therefore science is wrong. The world isn’t going to overheat and melt the North and South Pole. What can I do to bring about the End of Times? Nobody trusts me anymore because I didn’t write Rogue. Nobody believes I can write a news column because I am ignorant. I believe I photograph well and that I am pretty. I wonder if I made the Republican Party upset by my inaccurate information in Rogue.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    I’ve seen it snow in october, and be 70 in january, and vice versa in no particular order. The only thing predictable about mother earth is her unpredictability. Any one who thinks they can predict what she’s going to do even a month from now is a fool.

  • sacredh

    Well kids, it was like this…Bill Clinton hired a minor demon named Al Gore to spread alot of vicious nonsense about the earth getting warmer. He lived in a big house that made us mad so we knew that wasn’t true. Then the commies drove God’s second son from the White house and put some socialist from Afrighanistan in there so we figured that the Rapture was just around the corner. Why worry about someplace you’re leaving soon anyway? The earth is like a rental car. It’s not yours, so why care? Now go get me that magazine with a picture of President Palin in it. Grandpa has a little business to take care of.

  • 53_3

    Joe:
    .
    I have been telling everyone under the sun about how science deals with these things, and many others.
    .
    Will you do me the favor of reading Karl Popper’s Conjectures and Refutations.
    .
    If there is one book everyone should read about science, this is it!

  • 53_3

    Climate is not weather, 2/3rds.

  • 53_3

    Invoke Clinton!
    .
    I like it, sacred, in a perverse sort of way. Might I further add that he asked Mother Nature to smoke his ceegar…

  • 53_3

    It’s ok, Rusty.
    .
    You must be feeling my breath, to try to preempt me.
    .
    I sooooo enjoy the squirming of a bigot on the petard of factuality…

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Oh lord…..I woke up the monkey.

  • grollican

    It’s interesting to see Rusty live. Nice tits, shame about the IQ…..

  • sacredh

    Dear Diary, what can I do to get Levi to notice me? McCain had the equipment but it took a viagra the size of an orange to make it work. Oh well, it’s time to go back to work on the Unified Field Theory. Todd told me last night that if I didn’t quit yelling “drill baby, drill” that he was going to punch me. I think he has to die.

  • nflfoghorn

    Sacredh: RE 22.3, I would not go as far to say I’d never ever cheat, but the missus is 6′ and knows tae kwon-do — needless to say my incentive to even think about it is way, WAY low. :)

    As for Tigger (sic) you’re exactly right and it shows that, save for a couple billion$ you’re not much different from the rest of us. Funny how he must be following the pattern of Jordan’s behavior after his father was gone. I don’t know what it’s like to be famous, they’re on the road a lot and I’m sure there are a lot of people throwing themselves at these guys, but common sense should tell them that if you got a good woman and babies at home (or bad ones!) be good to them and stop thinking about your own pleasure.

  • 53_3

    “Nothing shy of “redistribution” of other people’s wealth.”
    .
    Ok then, here’s another conundrum for you to squirm about:
    .
    Consider:
    .
    “Real” America, as you describe it, has anywhere from dozens to hundreds miles of roads for each taxpayer. These taxpayers don’t have enough money to build or even maintain these roads.
    .
    So the money must come from somewhere, because there really is no tooth fairy, or even a road fairy.
    .
    Ok. That’s point A. Fact and fact.
    .
    Now, let”s go to point B, why don’t we, my little bigot. Let’s try this idea out for some very basic inductive reasoning, mixed with a few more facts.
    .
    Ok, now point B:
    .
    Since “Real” America does not have enough money to pay for it’s infrastructure, just where do you think it gets its money?
    .
    jeopardy.wav
    jeopardy.wav
    jeopardy.wav

  • 53_3

    That’s fine, 2/3rds of a terrorist.
    .
    Better a monkey than a foul bastard begotten by the Lady from Hades, terrorist scumbag.
    .
    Now, can you rebut my comment about weather and climate?
    .
    Eh, terrorist?
    .
    jeopardy.wav
    jeopardy.wav
    jeopardy.wav

  • bobcn1

    You have to acknowledge Sarah Palin’s qualifications as an authority on climate science. After all her academic credentials include attendance at:
    .
    o Hawaii Pacific University – fall 1982
    o North Idaho College – spring and fall 1983
    o University of Idaho – fall 1984 and spring 1985
    o Matanuska-Susitna College – fall 1985
    o University of Idaho (again) – spring and fall 1986, fall 1987
    .
    After attending all of those institutions of higher learning she was awarded a Bachelor’s degree in communications (to fulfill her ambition to become a sportscaster). With an academic resume like that, how can anyone question Palin’s qualifications to critique the work of climate scientists?

  • shepherdwong

    “Will you do me the favor of reading Karl Popper’s Conjectures and Refutations.”
    .
    It won’t do any good. Joe will choose his pathological “centrism” and his know-nothing peers in authoritarian-following Beltway society. He can’t help himself, it’s where his bread is buttered and his authoritarian-following urges placated.

  • 53_3

    Since both rw crackheads decided to forgo civility, I’ve decided, at least for the moment, to let the epithets fly.
    .
    And, I hate to say, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
    .
    Now, when other conservatives here have guts enough to corral their own, I will return to civility.
    .
    After all, this is their problem…

  • nflfoghorn

    Forgive the Olbermann-ish style of speaking as if the invective was directed to someone in the same room.

  • nflfoghorn

    Sir.

  • 53_3

    I know, but at least I want to go on record as having made an appeal to reason, shep.

  • 53_3

    I’ve noted that the magic number for Tiger is now nine.
    .
    I’m thinking, in his own perverse way, he thinks, as a professional golfer, that he’s managing a golf course…

  • palininatowel

    bob,
    .
    That gives her almost the same qualifications as the (unrelated subject) academics and (unrelated subject) scientists the conservatives always cite as sources against climate change science!

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Your right jackass. One is spelled with a c, and the other is spelled with a w.

  • nflfoghorn

    Five-three, that was just the front nine (ouch!)

  • shepherdwong

    I admire your optimism.

  • sacredh

    My wife doesn’t even come up to my shoulders. She doesn’t know any martial arts, but she did punch a cop once hard enough to knock him off of a stool and then went out and put a hose in his cruiser and turned it on. My baby is fearless. I honestly never would even consider cheating on her and during the summer I get flashed by women all the time. Job hazard, plus I just look like the kind of guy who appreciates a little skin. Sssshhh…don’t tell my wife. I have to sleep with my eyes closed.

  • 53_3

    If the sh!t fits, wear it 2/3rds of a terrorist.
    .
    Foul scum.
    .
    But, it’s clear that you don’t know and thanks for the proof!

  • 53_3

    Damn, nflfoghorn, you’re right.
    .
    I wonder what kind of traps they have around Palin’s hole…

  • 53_3

    You don’t like eating your own sh!t, do you 2/3rds of a terorist?

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Almost as much fun as playing in your own poo, eh -53?

  • sacredh

    Civility? We don’t need no stinking civility!

  • nflfoghorn

    Sacred, that must’ve been the pre-Taser days :)

    Fifty 3, I’m sure they’re all water hazards.

  • bobcn1

    It’s no wonder that, with Palin’s extensive academic credentials, conservative luminaries look to her for guidance.
    .
    Sean Hannity (high school graduate — college drop out) and Glenn Beck (high school graduate — no college) are very impressed with her.

  • shepherdwong

    For anyone who now has to respond to the those who have been misinformed by science-challenged idiots Freidman and Klein:

    No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/11/the-cru-hack/

  • 53_3

    I’ve made my point. I will now return to said civility even if insulted.
    .
    I like the high road better. I’lll let 2/3rds argue against his own words on Joe Klein’s LOL blog.
    .
    That is more than enough satisfaction!

  • sacredh

    OT (haha), but we’re getting 50-60 mph winds here right now. I just watched one of my lawn chairs go flying into a tree and get smashed up. I stored the rest of them in the upper garage. It should be fun at work tonight.

  • 53_3

    Um sacred,
    .
    She already knows. Believe me…

  • 53_3

    Do you realize sacred that this means that the world is about to be swept away by hurricane force winds!
    .
    Run like hell!
    .
    Libruls and socialists and America haters, oh my!
    Libruls and socialists and America haters, oh my!
    Libruls and socialists and America haters, oh my!

  • 53_3

    Sorry about the metaphor mixing, but it is better than being uncivil…

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    It’s 60 degrees where I live right now sacred, but what you’re getting now is coming our way. This time tomorrow it’s supposed to be 35 with high winds. My son is coming home tomorrow from Hawaii. Boy is he in for a surprise.

  • deconstructiva

    …summer is not global warming?

  • 53_3

    Oh, wow, I forgot sacred.
    .
    This means that global freezing is happening right now!
    .
    Kirschvink was right, Snowball Earths do occur…

  • sacredh

    I love living on a hilltop because of the view, but we get winds like you wouldn’t believe. I was outside earlier in the flower gardens taking out the decorative stuff and we have daffodils up about an inch! I put a couple of inches of potting soil on them because it’s going to get down in the very low double digits. I picked the season’s last roses on Thanksgiving.

  • deconstructiva

    …great stuff today, sacred, thanks. I’m late to the prom with this post today, but then again, if Levi had been late to the prom his life would be far different, if less entertaining.

  • sacredh

    2/3rds: It was 54 at 11 this morning. It’s 43 and dropping like a rock now. 12-14 tomorrow night. My wife just took the dogs out and she said there is a branch down in the back yard a few hundred feet from the house that is as big around as my upper thigh and about 20 feet long. I’ll have to the saw the damned thing up tomorrow.

  • rustyreturns

    One can only hope the “High Sheriffs” do take a good look at the un-called for slander, vicious name calling from the littlest of the liberal code-pink wannabes, IQ53.
    .
    But, when you have such a small brain, one cannot expect much in the nature of civility to come from a complete moron.
    .
    Keep up the great work, 2thirds. I know it is bugging the hell out of the dolt, when he rants like he is and crawls down into the 3rd grade name calling that he is so famous for.
    .
    How bout it ‘ol IQ53??

  • shepherdwong

    Simpler, from the commentor, WAG, on Freidman’s mistake:

    What was being “hidden” was not a decline in temperatures, but rather a divergence of tree ring proxies from the actual, measured temperatures from 1960 to the present. The “trick” was to tack the actual temperatures onto the graph at the point where the proxy reconstruction ceased to be accurate. There was never any “massaging” of data discussed in the emails – this only exists in the imaginations of the skeptics. This fact has been widely discussed in the past two weeks, so there’s really no excuse for getting it wrong. You should issue a correction to set the record straight.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    No hills here, just flatland with farmfields. Plenty of wind, except in the hot summer time. Funny how that works.

  • deconstructiva

    …if only Sarah Palin would have a lover in every book-signing town similar to Tiger having different women in different tour stops.

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    I’ll trade you jobs. I have to install vinyl siding tomorrow. There’s nothing more fun in high winds and cold temperatures.

  • sacredh

    It’s almost ALL hills here. I think we’re about 700-900 feet above the valley but it’s a two mile drive down into the valley (and the Ohio River). When I came home last night just after midnight it was all rain in the valley. We had about an inch of snow at the house.

  • sacredh

    No thanks, but my regular job is on a dam on the river. Great job, but good grief does it ever get cold there in the winter. Off to work. Have fun folks.

  • grollican

    Do we have to share space with the tea-bagging deviant traitors like Rusty? It’s embarrassing that decent Americans have to listen to his neo-Nazi Palin Porking slobberings.

  • bobcn1

    ‘One can only hope the “High Sheriffs” do take a good look at the un-called for slander, vicious name calling from the littlest of the liberal code-pink wannabes, IQ53.’
    .
    Hey rusty, do you EVER look in the mirror?

  • freeinpa

    rusty:

    birthers, truthers no matter. At least we have found out that the left has a god, global warming. They are now having their pilgrimage to Mt. Gore, the bulbous one who is probably the largest unregulated source of CO2 in the world.

    You gotta love how the entire global warming cabal is going to save us by flying private jets to Copenhagen and taken personal limos to the conference as shuttle buses go empty. I guess only the great unwashed has to follow those rules.

  • freeinpa

    Having Palin review it is as valid as Mt. Gore

  • deconstructiva

    “Do we have to share space with the tea-bagging deviant traitors like Rusty?”
    .
    I wonder if have to share space with RW’s like Sarah. Which kind of space, especially tight ones, is another matter, but I digress.

  • http://aroundthesphere.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/in-denmark-a-smorgasbord-is-called-a-kolde-bord-with-that-in-mind-heres-a-kolde-bord-of-posts-related-to-climate-change-and-kobenhavn/ In Denmark, A Smorgasbord Is Called A Kolde Bord. With That In Mind, Here’s A Kolde Bord Of Posts Related To Climate Change And Kobenhavn. « Around The Sphere

    [...] Foreign Policy’s Annie Lowrey blogs: “I wouldn’t recommend reading it.” Joe Klein seems worried that “The Washington Post devotes valuable op-ed space today to Sarah Palin.” Noted [...]

  • ilikechips

    What’s up captain douchebag 53-3. You left your pink scarf at my house last night.

    just thought I would stoop to 53-3′s level of educational posts. Are we done with the 5th grade name calling that liberals are famous for.?

  • Art Pepper

    I’ve seen it snow in october

    You would think that conservatives could understand the difference between short-term variability and long-term trends. Anyone who invests in an index fund relies on this principle.

  • grollican

    It’s always nice to see love blossom. Next you’ll be wearing his and hers matching sweaters. Are you going to become Mrs 53, or is he going to become Mr Chips?

  • bobcn1

    ‘Having Palin review it is as valid as Mt. Gore.’
    .
    No reasonable, knowledgeable person would make a statement like that. Assuming that your problem here is lack of knowledge, let’s check Gore’s credentials like we did Palin’s.
    .
    Education: Palin went to lots of colleges to get a Bachelors degree. Gore only went to one– Harvard (graduated cum laude). He did go to another college later for graduate studies (after returning from Vietnam) — Vanderbilt. Based on number of colleges attended Palin wins!
    .
    Books written: Gore wrote three — Earth in the Balance, An Inconvenient Truth, and The Assault on Reason. The first two are specifically about the subject we’re discussing here – climate change. Palin wrote one (or at least put her name on the cover of it) — about herself. Advantage Gore.
    .
    Nobel prizes won for work on climate change:
    Gore 1
    Palin 0
    .
    So is ‘having Palin review it is as valid as Gore’? The answer is no.

  • palininatowel

    By the way, Joe, I got what you were going for with the title, but I didn’t quite get the relevancy.

    Go deliver a dare, vile dog!

  • shepherdwong

    All snark aside, Joe, you owe a correction on the “disgraceful emails” bit. It’s one thing that you make all the readers who automatically trust your opinion a little bit dumber, both on the facts of this case and on how science is done in general but you have actually libeled these scientists, particularly Phil Jones. You owe them an apology as well.

  • freeinpa

    bobcn1:

    You need to stop getting your talking points from liberal crap sites or Wikipedia which is a liberal crap site.

    “The basis for the media’s unfair attacks on Bush’s intelligence is his 30-year-old Yale College transcript (purloined last fall and published by The New Yorker). Yet The Washington Post’s subsequent revelation of Gore’s unimpressive academic record has done little to alter the media’s false portrayal of Gore as “the smartest kid in the class.” It is a record that is worth reviewing, if only to debunk the myth of Gore as a serious student.

    Gore’s undergraduate transcript from Harvard is riddled with C’s, including a C-minus in introductory economics, a D in one science course, and a C-plus in another. “In his sophomore year at Harvard,” the Post reported, “Gore’s grades were lower than any semester recorded on Bush’s transcript from Yale.” Moreover, Gore’s graduate school record – consistently glossed over by the press – is nothing short of shameful. In 1971, Gore enrolled in Vanderbilt Divinity School where, according to Bill Turque, author of “Inventing Al Gore,” he received F’s in five of the eight classes he took over the course of three semesters. Not surprisingly, Gore did not receive a degree from the divinity school. Nor did Gore graduate from Vanderbilt Law School, where he enrolled for a brief time and received his fair share of C’s. (Bush went on to earn an MBA from Harvard). (Boston Globe)

    For all of Gore’s later fascination with science and technology, he often struggled academically in those subjects. The political champion of the natural world received that sophomore D in Natural Sciences 6 (Man’s Place in Nature) and then got a C-plus in Natural Sciences 118 his senior year.(WaPo).

    I especially like the D in natural sciences which probably explains the 3 books of crap he wrote. His Oscar winning performance was ruled in a court in London as being riddled with errors.

    But liberals never do rely on the truth.

    He displays the same arrogant faux intelligence liberals tend to have. Look down at your nose at Palin but push comes to shove Gore couldn’t pass gas let alone graduate cum laude.

  • textee

    The “global warming” hoax has gotten so bad that they are getting 16 freakin’ feet of snow in Des Moines. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091209/ts_alt_afp/usweatherstorm_20091209221347

    It ain’t even winter yet!

  • 53_3

    Rusty:
    .
    I’d win both slander cases. Hands down.
    .
    I have links and copies of your rant and his.
    .
    Why?
    .
    Because when it comes time to make clear just where credibility lies, all I have to do is point them out, and, of course, helpfully supply the link.
    .
    Nothing slanderous whatsoever about that, is it?
    .
    That is, unless you plan to sue yourselves…

  • 53_3

    I still like chips…

  • 53_3

    Wasn’t me ilikechips. That was a pink slip from your employer.
    .
    Really sorry about that, but hells bells, you’ll pull through…

  • palininatowel

    You make rusty look like Einstein.

  • kbanginmotown

    …1969…Cuyahoga River Burning
    +.1972…Clean Water Act
    =.2005…Fishing in Lake Erie
    .
    What part of this is difficult to understand?

  • kbanginmotown

    sacredh: Johnny Cash’s “Walk the Line” should be required listening for all married men…daily.

  • bobcn1

    ‘But liberals never do rely on the truth….Gore couldn’t pass gas let alone graduate cum laude’
    .
    Nice try freeper. Your switch from arguing that Palin is as qualified as Gore to citing old arguments about Bush’s academic record vs Gore’s wasn’t too subtle. It’s understandable though. If I were in your shoes I wouldn’t want to continue arguing that Palin is qualified either.
    .
    So you duck and you dodge. Not very well though, since you got caught lying. Here’s another clip from the very same article you cited (link):

    Gore flirted with English at Harvard, dreaming of a life as a novelist, but decided to make government his concentration. He got off to an uncertain start in that subject, with a C and C-minus in his first two courses, before righting himself. In his junior year, he earned a B, a B-plus and an A-minus in three government courses, and he aced his senior government thesis on the impact of television on the presidency, a strong finish that made him a cum laude graduate. His devotion to the subject by then was so intense that he gave much of his time to a not-for-credit seminar with his favorite professor, Richard Neustadt, an expert on the presidency.

    .
    You accuse liberals of lying and then you get caught selectively editing clips from the article you googled (Fox news would be proud of you). The article you cite proves you’re lying about Gore graduating cum laude.
    .
    Pathetic.

  • repzak

    Truly. Talk about freezing levels of IQ.

  • http://russellshields.wordpress.com/ russellshields

    What sort of people would be willing to place a significant bet on the lives of their grandchildren? (Answer: those more interested in centralizing government power at the expense of individual freedom). Global Warming is all about redistributing wealth, not saving the planet. Honest science was a casualty of this war years ago. The preponderance of politicized science has been with the Global Warmers from the beginning.

    The “significant bet” being placed by the libs in the trillions of dollars is and odds-on loser. Too bad the mainstream media has lost their journalistic integrity. Where is the honest scrutiny of this subject?

    Interesting you think fear of government overstepping is only “semi-legitimate” while “expectations that controls will give birth to a shiny, new, job-generating green economy” are fully “legitimate.” Where are the examples in history where government control gave birth to a shiny, job generating economy? They don’t exist. The preponderance of real economics indicates government control of the economy stifles growth and job generation; it is the preponderance of politicized economics that denies it.

  • richinnj

    jymallyn

    Up is downism is meant to indicate a distortion of reality. It’s a phrase that Josh Marshall uses a lot. It has NOTHING to do with Down’s Syndrome. OMG, I can’t believe that’s what you thought.

  • http://trueslant.com/conorfriedersdorf/2009/12/10/the-exaggerated-victimhood-of-sarah-palin/ The Exaggerated Victimhood of Sarah Palin – Conor Friedersdorf – Metablog – True/Slant

    [...] Foreign Policy’s Annie Lowrey blogs: “I wouldn’t recommend reading it.” Joe Klein seems worried that “The Washington Post devotes valuable op-ed space today to Sarah Palin.” Noted [...]

  • lastday12013

    Maybe she can get dr. gore’s help

  • sacredh

    kbanginmotown: Followed closely by “Ring of Fire”.

  • sacredh

    2/3′s: Maybe I should have traded jobs for today. I’d only been at work for 10 minutes yesterday before I got a call that a huge shade tree had lost it’s top and crashed into the porch of one of my rental properties. I’d just hung up and got another call that a section of awning from my other rental had been ripped off taking gutters and downspouts with it. About an hour later my wife called and asked me if I’d stored the garbage containers in the upper garage (I hadn’t) because they were GONE. One is a 70 gallon rectangular number on wheels. I did find those about 600 feet down the road in the trees. High winds, blowing snow, a wind chill around zero and I was out walking the road after midnight looking for my garbage containers. My insurance company is going to love me today.

  • freeinpa

    bobcn1

    As usual you can’t follow your own argument. I simply stated Palin was as qualified as Gore to review the science. You claim I was switching to Bush. Bush’s record was in the article I could nto retraactively fix it so you could follow. I was making the case for Gore’s “science” background which is a dismal as your logic.

    You complain about Palin incomplete records at some schools but pass on Gore’s inability to complete. He dropped out of law school, dropped out of Divinity School. no doubt to invent the internet and work on being the bais for the movie “Love Story”.

    His grades in the first 2 years were pathetic. A strong finish to “earn” cum laude in government. I have no doubt that any chimp taking liberal positions in the a senior thesis at Harvard would be cum laude, hardly an academic achievement. In science and journalism the two subject areas you point to for his “expertise” in global warming and writing 3 books he sits next to you with a dunce cap.

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