Unemployment Today: The White House Reacts

So in other words, the employment picture is looking brighter but we don’t really want to say that because it doesn’t fit with our narrative that this is an administration that is either dithering, ineffectual or downright incompetent — so we don’t really want to emphasize anything that shows this adminstration is working well. In reality not only did they stop us from going over the economic cliff, they are turning this ship of state around, they are repairing the financial markets, the stimulus saved and created jobs, they are laying the foundation for a new economy (green jobs), revamping our foreign policy and have gotten further than any administration in a hundred years to bringing us universal health care, but we don’t want to swell on that, so let’s talk about the couple that apparently crashed a party.

A robust recovery is a little bit too much to hope for at this point. Any recovery at all is good news.

Many risks indeed. The two biggest are cap and tax and healthcare reform. Get ‘em off the table now! And while we’re at it , let’s toss those union thugs out on their ears.

I think that this caution is ok, but with one caveat:
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The general trend has been toward less job losses for several months, and other indicators in the recent past have also been showing glints of positive change.
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I think that Dean Baker might be drilling down too far and just zeroeing in on the single month, but the fact is that this is a lagging indicator.
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The trend is clear and it looks like the situation has bottomed out, and it will improve in the future.
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Just from my point of view here, the T-Day shopping was as intense as I’ve ever seen, so I think that while caution is ok, things are looking up.
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Keep in mind also that just prior to Obama taking office, and shortly after, there was a severe credit freeze, which has since loosened considerably. There was low level panic that Bush would do nothing.
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I have no doubt that Obama’s measures are finally beginning to impact the economy. Clearly, except for those who believe that the market should have corrected without regard to impact on our citizens, doing nothing would have been the wrong course.

My take on UHC and the public plan:
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How many businesses in single payer countries have to worry about providing employee health care?
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None.
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That’s right. None.

Dee,

If I were not a broke graduate student..I would send you a gift card to Applebees. You can sense the snark coming out of MS after his 2,000+ word rant on the jobs summit not meaning anything he picks one of the few pessimistic economists (other than Krugman) on this much better than expected jobs report…we were losing 700,000 jobs in jan 09 and in nov 09 we are losing 11,000 ( I’m not saying go lick a flag pole) but this is big dam*n* deal..

When the CBO came out with a report saying the stimulus actually saved between 600,000 and 1.6 million jobs, NO ONE not POLITICO, not MS, barely made a peep (at least not as loud if the results were negative).

MS Why don’t you go back to making fun of celebrities on TMZ…No One is saying slobber over the admin..but the passion and fervor you put into the negative stories should be the same for the positive ones

If not, go work for POLITICO I hear they are running low on SNARK

Politico’s headlines in the past few days

” Tele-Prompters see boom since Obama”

” 7 things Obama doesn’t want you to know”

” Envoys ( Middle East and Afghanistan) don’t create peace with their magic dust”

Oh Walter Cronkite, where art thou?

Watch it 53_3: you’re making sense. Why small business employers should be lumbered with providing health care, which adds to their cost of doing business, is beyond me. But we are not “socialists”; we are so exceptional that we will make it tough for our citizens to get basic health care at an affordable price.

Come on bitter this is America, we don’t provide health care our citizens have a right to die as long as it is not from abortion or assisted suicide.

”the employment picture is looking brighter but we don’t really want to say that because it doesn’t fit with our narrative that this is an administration that is either dithering, ineffectual or downright incompetent — so we don’t really want to emphasize anything that shows this adminstration is working well.”

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No, we really don’t really want to emphasize “anything” just yet, as there is no proof that what this Administration IS doing has had any effect what-so-ever. Merely throwing money at this will not make it go away. It only postpones the inevitable downward spiral due to the uncontrolled spending by this Administration, the vastly weakened dollar, the continued rise in gold prices, and a plan that rewards socialism not capitalism. But, we shall see. I do believe it is very early yet to predict exactly where we will be one year from now.
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I do find these two quotes from Baker very interesting indeed:
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”The drop in the unemployment rate was almost certainly attributable primarily to measurement error. The 10.2 percent figure for October, a jump of 0.4 percentage points from September, exaggerated the true unemployment rate, so the change in November was simply a correction of this sampling error. The employment rate (EPOP) remained unchanged at 58.5 percent.”

What we do have is a stagnant economy, with stagnant employment. If the dollar continues further decline, I predict we shall see uncontrolled inflation setting in, and $5.00/gallon of milk, $5.00/gallon gas, and $5.00 dollar loaves of bread for our future.
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This statement from Baker is the most concerning for me…
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”The mean and median duration of unemployment spells both increased in November, as did the share of the unemployed who have been out of work for more than 26 weeks. All are new record highs.”

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Yes Dee in Columbia, this is GREAT news!! We should celebrate and throw another White House Party in my opinion!!

In comparison this is the height of absurdity. The Obama administration is compared to perfection and I think back to the McCain/Palin campaign, and as long as she didn’t trip and fall on the way to the podium it was considered a success.
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What’s next Mikey, I suppose that if the administration continues at this rate next year your headline will read “Obama administration assaults Reagan’s legacy” after 30 years of the accepted view that government is the problem, the Obama administration is forcing citizens to reassess this belief. Many Americans decry the change and wonder where it will all end, claiming this is “no longer the country they grew up in.”

One has to wonder how it is that you guys deal with the major depression you are in.

Christina Romer blogs the details (and spin)

You left this part out, Michael:

There are many bumps in the road ahead. The monthly employment and unemployment numbers are volatile and subject to substantial revision. Therefore, it is important not to read too much into any one monthly report, positive or negative…

That’s some, uh, wicked spin being put on those employment numbers…not exactly “Mission Accomplished”, is it?

Funny how all the bad news from the Obama administration comes out on a Friday…oh, wait a minute, this isn’t…

‘No, we really don’t really want to emphasize “anything” just yet, as there is no proof that what this Administration IS doing has had any effect what-so-ever.’
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Proof:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125964003843970851.html
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Quoting the WSJ article: ‘The Congressional Budget Office late Monday said it estimates that the federal stimulus package sustained between 600,000 and 1.6 million jobs in the third quarter, and raised gross domestic product by 1.2 to 3.2 percentage points higher than it would have been without the program.’

Dee:
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Both the BHO admin and Michael Scherer are corrupt (in the general sense).
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The BHO admin isn’t interested in a highly effective way to reduce U.S. unemployment (see that link for the details) because they’re corrupt: they’re putting their political interests ahead of the interests of U.S. citizens.
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Scherer and the other Time hacks and the rest of the MSM are likewise corrupt: they have no interest in asking the BHO admin about that highly effective strategy but instead are content to simply write down what the BHO admin says about their various Rube Goldberg schemes.
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There’s no good reason why Scherer wouldn’t ask about that effective plan, and real journalists of past years would have asked about that effective plan. Yet, Scherer and the rest of the TIme hacks and all their colleagues are too corrupted to do it.

What’s good for small businesses isn’t necessarily good for the lobbyists and the representatives that get the big bucks from the healthcare monoliths.

Dean Baker was the first economist to point out that there was a housing bubble, he called it back in 2002. He was also very critical of the regulatory framework that allowed the subsequent collapse of this bubble and the overall economy. Dr. Baker told anyone who was willing to listen his views on what was looming for our housing market and economy.
If you want to see how our media operates, use the search function at the top of this page and count how many times Time Magazine referenced Dr. Baker or his work between 2002 and 2007.

Well I would suggest that you go to one of these single payer countries and check out their healthcare first hand. But actually you don’t have to. Just ask anyone who’s lived there and they’ll tell you that that is one of the main reasons they moved to this country. Owning a business there is a priveledge of the select few, and quality healthcare is only given to those with a pocketful of money. I’ve spent my life in the small business world, sometimes as an employer, other times as an employee. I live in a small enough area where everybody knows everybody, and the story is the same. If this bill passes they will go out of business. Some will be forced to and others will just throw up their hands and say to hell with it. But the results will be the same, lost jobs. There was a time when our small family business did quite well. We’ve never provided healthcare, but were always able to pay a good enough wage for our employees to buy their own if they chose to.
Nowhere in our constitution does it say that an employer must provide healthcare. Fix the economy dammit! Good things always seem more achievable when the job market is strong. First things first.

Might I mention sacred that one of the most frequent visitors to the white house in the past year has been the Stern fellow, head of the SEIU(20+ visits). The ultimate goal here is to completely do away with small business.

Apparently you missed this part in Elmendorf’s blog comment that you cite from WSJ.
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“”However, such reports do not provide a comprehensive estimate of the law’s impact on employment in the United States. That impact may be higher or lower than the reported number for several reasons (in addition to any issues about the quality of the data in the reports),” Mr. Elmendorf wrote. The CBO is required to comment on the figures released by stimulus recipients.”

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But, as we have seen from the Obama Administrations inflated numbers on “jobs saved or created” by the stimulus, where exactly did those numbers magically appear from?
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Oh that’s right, from the Congressional Districts that do not exist. From inflated numbers created by Obama cohorts, and their croonies at the State Government levels.
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Plus, jobs created by the stimulus are merely TEMPORARY JOBS. Isn’t that right, bob?
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Other headlines:
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-jobs-created-by-198418.html
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“Georgia jobs created by stimulus dollars overstated. Discrepancies, mistakes raise doubts over state headcount of 24,681″

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And this:
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“For example, the Associated Press reports that of the 30,383 jobs attributed to federal contracts (300 in North Carolina), “some counts were more than 10 times as high as the actual number of jobs; some jobs credited to the stimulus program were counted two and sometimes more than four times; and other jobs were credited to stimulus spending when none was produced.”

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http://www.capitol-monitor.org/nc-stimulus-watch/wheres-the-truthstimulus-jobs.php
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Why do Democrats make it so easy to beat them down with the facts?

Back when it was the largest private health plan in the country, Aetna downsized its membership by millions but boosted profits during an overhaul of its business several years ago.
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Now it looks to be making a similar — but smaller — move with a planned price increase for many of its customers in 2010.
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The company figures it will lose between 600,000 and 650,000 members next year because of the price hikes.
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In a conference call with investment analysts to discuss the company’s third-quarter earnings, Chair and CEO Ron Williams told analysts, “The pricing we put in place for 2009 turned out to not really be what we needed to achieve the results and margins that we had historically been delivering.”
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Aetna President Mark Bertolini laid out how the company planned to raise prices to improve the company’s profit margin. He said the firm had “implemented a combination of underwriting enhancements, pricing actions and plan design changes, intended to ensure that each customer is priced to an appropriate margin.”
He predicted that Aetna would lose between 300,000 and 350,000 members from national accounts — large businesses in multiple states — because of businesses looking for “near-term cost savings.” They would lose another 300,000 in smaller group accounts, which are medium- to small-size businesses.
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Laying out specific expected membership losses is “pretty candid,” said David Gibbs, a retired health insurance industry consultant from San Luis Obispo, Calif. He worked for and consulted with health insurers, including Aetna, for 25 years, and most recently was with New Jersey-based Health Economics Consulting Group.
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He said Aetna’s decision comes from a system that encourages insurers to drive away sicker members — a strategy not unique to one insurer. “They’re running a business, and their obligation is a very singular one: to increase shareholder profits.”
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Aetna is not alone
It’s not unusual for executives to promise that profitability will take priority over membership growth. Some of Aetna’s competitors are taking similar steps in 2010 and have done so in the past.
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Angela Braly, WellPoint’s president and CEO, told investors and analysts in 2008 that the company “would not sacrifice profitability for membership.” She was referring to some insurers “buying membership” by reducing prices to boost overall growth.
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Those kind of statements aren’t rare, but it’s less common for executives to be as specific as Bertolini was about how many members they expect to lose by raising premiums.
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Because of the recession, health plans are treading a fine line between trying to keep membership numbers healthy and ensuring that the members they keep continue to generate a profit.
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Most insurers have seen substantial membership losses due to recession-driven layoffs, and much of the decline has been in the more profitable commercial sector, while Medicaid and Medicare membership has grown.
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http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/11/30/bisb1130.htm

Bo Cutter has presented the best possible defense of Treasury Secretary Geithner.
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It is a remarkable defense because it is premised on a scathing indictment of Wall Street, theoclassical economics, modern finance, and the sycophants that the financial community installed as anti-regulators. Indeed, Bo’s account is sometimes particularly credible because it is a confession. Bo was a managing partner of Warburg Pincus, a major global private equity firm, and led President Obama’s Office of Management and Budget (OMB) transition team. His defense of Geithner provides so rich a vein of ore that I will mine it in three installments: (1) Bo’s indictment of the finance industry, Greenspan, Geithner, Paulson and Bernanke, (2) the martyrdom of Geithner, and (3) Geithner as Bo’s Last Action Hero.
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Bo’s explanation of Geithner’s unique virtues begins the indictment.
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It comes down to this: the combination of brains, guts, calmness, and a willingness to act are virtually non-existent in Washington in any era, but particularly in this one. When you find the combination in a significant cabinet level job, you should value it.
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[T]his crisis was long in coming and it was a totally integrated failure of intellectual traditions, global macro-economic imbalances, government policy making, regulatory supervision, financial sector greed, incomprehensible boards of directors, absences without leave, and breath-taking management short-sightedness. No one and no institution put together an understanding of the set of factors that triggered this particular debacle. Tim [Geithner] is included in this “no one”, but so is everyone else.

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I think the last two years have revealed the single largest failure of senior management in the financial sector, and of the board system in American history. I think I am correct in saying that there was not a single independent director in America who stood up on this issue. I do not understand why every board of every institution that failed was not asked to resign immediately.

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Bo’s indictment is compelling, but his logic proves a deeper failure. There is no reason to restrict his indictment to “the last two years.” The senior managers’ and directors’ failure did not begin with the recession. They failed throughout the expansion of the bubble, the backdating of stock options, after-hours trading, the collapse of the auction rate securities market, the “epidemic” of mortgage fraud by lenders, the massive scandals of the Enron and Worldcom era, and the savings and loan debacle. The financial sector has been in recurrent, intensifying scandals for decades.
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Bo’s arguments require us to focus on at least the last four years (even if he continues to ignore the FBI’s 1984 warning that the mortgage fraud “epidemic” would cause a crisis).
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/fraud-and-failure-bo-cutt_b_379090.html

One has to wonder allthings, how it is you elitists, with your noses in the air, keep from drowning in a rainstorm.

This is a dramatic improvement from the decline of 597,000 in November 2008 and 741,000 in January 2009.

“Dramatic improvement”?
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No it isn’t.
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F*cking propagandists…
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…let’s hope that the reality-based community still has the integrity to see this for what it is, and not what Obama’s flacks say it is, because there are more important things to accomplish than keeping Obama’s image clean of unemployment stains….like this guy, for example ( link to blogosphere’s genius )

Worried The Good News Is Bad News
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As I said yesterday, while I wasn’t rooting for a bad economy I was somewhat rooting for a bad-sounding measurement of the economy. There’s no contradiction here as measurement is imperfect and the unemployment number specifically bounces around quite a bit. The worry is that momentum for an aggressive jobs bill is lost. Obviously I could be completely wrong about everything and an aggressive jobs bill isn’t needed, but our Fed chair doesn’t seem to be too concerned about the unemployment rate, so…

My friend did just that. She was in Bulgaria and developed severe stomach pains. She went to a Bulgarian hospital and was treated right away, examined and given medication. She was really impressed with how well she was treated. And the cost to her…0. She had no health insurance at the time and had she been in America she new she would have landed in the E.R. and racked up hundreds of dollars in bills.
The thing is, those of us who have actually traveled outside this country know it is a lie when people against HCR bash on other countries health care.
I got really sick in Thailand back in 96′ and ended up spending the night in a Bangkok hospital hooked up to an IV. I got better quickly. Cost to me…0.

Restricting indictment and analysis to only the last four years is…weird.
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Is he not aware that Larry Summers pushed something through ten years ago called “Gramm-Leach-Bliley” ( link to wikipedia entry ) ?
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Is he not aware that the genius centrist architects of regulatory “partnership” with finance are still in charge of the economy?
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When he wonders “why every board of every institution that failed was not asked to resign immediately“, doesn’t Summers’ position in Obama’s cabinet make that proposition laughable?

In the fifties I was involved with a union. Even the people who’s own interests were threatened by my work never considered me a thug. I will forever be proud of my work, because I know I was doing something good and lasting, and I resent this continuous coupling of unions and thugs Are there thugs in unions? does a bear sh*t in the woods?

Hmmm queenie. So why would you want to live in such a dreadful place as the the USA? Sounds like Bulgaria and Thailand are the cat’s meow. I’m sure there’s more to this story.

I want to live in America because it is my home. My family and my friends are here. It’s home. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like to visit other places. And sometimes when you are visiting other places you happen to get sick.
I was merely replying to your statement “Well I would suggest that you go to one of these single payer countries and check out their healthcare first hand”

2/3 I would put your statement back onto you. Why don’t you travel outside the U.S. a bit more if you are able to do so. And if you happen to get sick I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the quality of care you receive.

It’s interesting to see how little our resident trolls know about how actual businesses run. Because he conveniently Capped and Bolded it, I can see that Rusty thinks the phrase ‘temporary jobs’ means that it’s not good news. My experience in Manufacturing OTOH lets me know that if you need to ramp up production the very first thing you do is call over to the temp agency to get an immediate infusion of manpower. Then once things are humming and your confident they will continue, then you get to the business of hiring.

The job market is a lagging indicator and I don’t suspect that the construction sector will ever recover (nor should it IMHO – It was bubble driven) but no amount of Chicken-Little virtual shouting will change the fact that this months numbers are exceedingly good news.

PS this:
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The ultimate goal here is to completely do away with small business.
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is evidence of insanity.

This,of course, is very bad news for Obama – just ask the folks who opposed his election, and have decided that therefore everything that happens after January 20, 2009 must be another sign of the Apocalypse.

People only get to whine so much before they’re appropriately categorized as spoiled brats and bad losers.

Permanent credibility FAIL.

For those who are still unemployed, there’s no reason why a little ingenuity can’t keep you living in the luxury of the American lifestyle:

http://bit.ly/ozqT6

(satire)

Oh poor little Paul Dirks, our resident nay-sayer from the far left.
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First off my comment as to the stimulus was it created temporary jobs, not permanent ones. If you believe that Government grants and handouts will provide for your family over the long haul you are sadly mistaken. The only permanent government grant you can count on is welfare and food stamps.
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Yes, an increase in temporary jobs at any company could mean that the economy is moving towards recovery. It can also mean that they are temporary to meet the temporary demand for help during let’s say for example the Christmas Holiday, then in January the jobs are terminated.
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The stimulus bill created temporary jobs, period. Real recovery will witness the hiring of permanent workers. That as of yet has not happened. Predictions and forcast indicate we will not see any such thing happening until at least 2011.
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All the smoke and mirrors of the Obama/Biden “recovery” of “jobs created or saved” is nothing more than political smoke and mirrors.
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The real fact is since Obama took office, this country has seen the loss of over 3 million jobs. If any jobs were created, they were simply created due to temporary funds to States in the form of the stimulus and recovery act creating TEMPORARY JOBS.

Well queenie a friend of mine had the same experience while traveling in Mexico, but having been to Mexico myself I find it hard to believe that this is the norm for the average citizen. And if it is, at what cost? You may have gotten your treatment for free, but some how someway, somebody had to pay for it. Did you check out the economy while you were there? What was their tax rate? What was the poverty situation compared to ours? Poor people in this country have running water and electricity and food. Did you check out the whole country or just the tourist area? Why do people in those countries spend their whole lives dreaming of coming to the USA? A friend of mine is from Romania, which also has universal healthcare. He says it’s a joke. He says their economy has been in the toilet forever, nobody wants to live there. One thing that really stood out in our conversations, is how Romania’s healthcare program was pretty much the tipping point that drove them the rest of the way into the ground, and why they all want to leave. Even to the point of leaving their loved one’s behind. I’m not calling you a liar, but I still think there’s a lot more to the story.

My father was a dedicated union worker from the time of the depression until his death. He was never anything but a gentle advocate for his cause. Thanks to the work of those “thugs” you have:
paid vacations
end of child labor
40 hour work weeks
paid sick leave
safety in the work place
health insurance
pensions
fairness in the work place
Many of these benefits have been eroded with the weaking of the unions. If you want to go back to the abhorrent labor standards prior to unions, please go to work in China or Singapore.
In the meantime, please do not stereotype my good father and his fellow union brothers and sisters as thugs.

rusty, do you have links proving that stimulus jobs are strictly temporary? I can wait.
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Paul, I think construction will eventually recover. It usually does (it better, it’s supposed to be my career), but its boom / bust cycles are comically severe. The ‘80’s had obscene amounts of commercial building yet for example, even more shopping malls / lifestyle centers got built, esp. this decade. This home market, though, clearly overreached with too many too-big homes and crappy mortgages. Some towns like Flint may tear down homes – http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/business/22flint.html?_r=1
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…and here’s a video of homes being torn down for real…
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1114566707&play=1
The ‘80’s also had a gruesome overbuilding of condos, incl. Texas (that was fueled by S+L’s – remember that bank crisis?).

So the 2.1 million jobs lost in January, February and March of this year are Obama’s fault? Rusty, you should give up the attempts at critical thinking as you are just not cut out for it.

If you intend to cry about this job loss, where exactly were you in 2008 when W apparently lost 3.1 million jobs?
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http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/03/news/economy/jobs_march/index.htm
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Furthermore, if Obama and the government can’t create jobs, how exactly can Obama be responsible for all of this job loss? Oh, strike that. I now realize you’re not up to the challenge of critical thinking. Thanks for playing.
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As for the jobs report, it appears to be mildly positive news. The rate of job loss has slowed dramatically since the 1st quarter of 2009. The real question is what is it that will spur job growth going forward? I am much more concerned about that and I have yet to hear a convincing plan to rectify it.

“The ultimate goal here is to completely do away with small business.
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Care to substantiate this wild claim?

I am not a liar.
My friend and I each traveled to a foreign country, we each got sick, we each got treated and we were each fine after the experience. That is it. Are there people who travel in foreign countries who get sick and have bad experiences? Yes. Just like plenty of Americans have bad experiences with health care in this country. Do Bulgaria and Thailand have issues with employment, poverty, their economies? I’m sure they do. I only sited those two countries as I had personal experiences with each of them regarding health care. BTW – my friend spent months in Bulgaria and I spent several months in Thailand. So for what it is worth we were not typical tourists blowing through town after just spending a week or so in the area.
My BIL is a Marine who was stationed in Okinawa for three years with my sister and nieces. They were re-stationed stateside last year. One thing they mentioned over and over is how long-lived the Japanese Okinawan’s are. They constantly saw Okinawa people in their upper 90′s and 100′s who appeared to be in great health. My sister and BIL were greatly impressed by that fact.
I think one way to judge a countries health care system is to look at life expectancy. Here is a recent list I found…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
On that list the U.S. ranks a sad 42. And the last I heard, places like Japan, Sweden, France, England, Italy, Canada, Bermuda, Australia, New Zealand etc are not some 3rd world pits where the populations are desperate to flee.
My point to all of this is to say that I agree with your origional statement about traveling abroad and experiencing their health care first hand. I have, along with some of my family and friends. It was fine. None of us had a problem. Doesn’t mean we hate the U.S.

And maybe the looney left should learn something about business before pontificating.

Temporary workers always increase at this time of year. Hiring of temporary workers may or may not become permanent. By no sane logic that you can infer that these people were hired on a temporary basis until the economy is humming along. With the uncertainty of Cap & Tax, “HC reform”, any business owner has to weigh whether the need for an employee is greater than what the potential fixed costs going forward might be. While the government may not create jobs they can certainly restrain those who can.

In today’s report if you look at the unemployed plus those who have stopped looking for work, the number for November is unchanged. Also those unemployed for >27 weeks rose by 293,000.

The increase in jobs was in Business services which was mostly temp workers, HC, Education and Government. Given that government and education rely on taxes to support. Not great when deficits are running wild on the federal. state and local levels. HC jobs are increasing and of course when we pass HC reform those jobs will be free and premiums will fall.

As far as the porkulus bill increasing jobs, that remains debatable. The administration has yet to be able to accurately calculate anything temporary or otherwise.Numbers were invented. But if you drink the Kool aid then you believe the government can create jobs. Eventually they run out of other people’s money to spend since the government can only confiscate money through taxes and not create revenue.

“Poor people in this country have running water and electricity and food.”
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…uh, 2/3, regarding your c.5.8 statement above, that’s not true…
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=11137794
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…and this too (plenty of examples, I just picked two at random)
http://www.nativevillage.org/Messages%20from%20the%20People/the%20arrogance%20of%20ignorance.htm

Substantiation die? No problem. Just open your eyes.

“…the government can only confiscate money through taxes and not create revenue.”
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…actually,free, taxes are a form of revenue for govts, a basic definition –
http://www.investorwords.com/4254/revenue.html

You’re point, decon? If I had to be poor, I’d rather be poor here than anywhere else. That is for now. If our government has it’s way, we will all know what it’s like to be poor.

Unions have done a terrific job. Just ordinary folks looking for an even break. Fair day’s pay for a fair days work.

Yes the wages, HC, pensions etal has sent the Steel, Auto and Airline industry into bankruptcy. The next filing of bankruptcy courtesy of unions will be coming to a state, county or municipality near you.

Check out a road construction project any day. Two guys turning a stop/go sign to traffic at $20+/hr, one guy shoveling and 8 guys standing leaning on shovels.

Or a case when I was a college student working at a Chemical plant. I removed a small pump (size of a microwave). I was written up because I did not have two union guys come and replace it, a laborer and an electrician. Now it was 2 nuts with a hand held wrench and an 3 prong electrical cord. Several weeks later another pump went so learning my lesson I called the shop foreman. Being that it was 2:30 in the morning he wanted me to do it since he would have to wake up two of his hardy union workers. Learning my lesson, I refused and told him he had an hour or I had to shut the unit down and I was calling the Chief Engineer. I was threatened and cursed for weeks. Yeah just solid guys.

Check to see how many unions were are under Federal supervision. See how many bodies are still missing of union members. Spare me your Hollywood memories of unions.

deconstructiva

If it makes you feel better, they confiscate revenue. Hey is that theft?

People only get to whine so much before they’re appropriately categorized as spoiled brats and bad losers.

Right we had 8 years of them!

“And maybe the looney left should learn something about business before pontificating.”

Why is that? You blow smoke all day, every day without knowing much about……well, it seems, anything.

“While the government may not create jobs they can certainly restrain those who can.”

Since 1/20/09 what exactly has government done to restrain job creation? Please provide specific examples and not your usual vacillation.

BTW, the way the government creates jobs is indirectly. They allocate money for a project and contract it out to the private sector. The money is paid out to a contractor who then pays the employees. Those employees spend their newly found income at other businesses. Those businesses then pay their employees. Lather, rinse, repeat. It’s called the multiplier effect.

http://tinyurl.com/yg97kuf

So tell me die, where does the gubmint get this money that they allocate?

diecash1

Buy yourself an early Christmas present. Then have somebody read/explain this book to you. I don’t have the expertise in Special Education to help you here.

“Why is that? You blow smoke all day, every day without knowing much about……well, it seems, anything.”
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It’s hard to tell what is more amusing, the stupidity he spews on a daily basis, the complete cluelessness at how stupid it is, or the arrogance of posting that clueless stupidity for all the world to see, while screaming that it is everyone else who is stupid.

shepdork

You are a**hats pretending to be relevant. No wonder you are big Obama fans. Equally arrogant and brutally inept and not worth any further response on anything.
You can continue your moronic rants about Bush, Beck and Palin and giggle to yourself over your brilliance. I will admit reading your both responses does strengthen arguments for abortion.

2/3, read my comment again (it’s #5.10 if you have trouble finding it). In case you still can’t figure out the point, here’s a hint: it’s the part saying your quote is not true. If you still can’t figure it out, that says way more about you than me. If you disagree, post links and prove your case, good luck. That’s all.

freeper —
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Do you ever wonder why it is that you’re such a joke? Perhaps it’s because you supply no real analysis or facts, merely more partisan BS.
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BTW, I noticed that you were again unable to respond in any substantive way to my points. Maybe you missed this:
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“While the government may not create jobs they can certainly restrain those who can.”
Since 1/20/09 what exactly has government done to restrain job creation? Please provide specific examples and not your usual vacillation.
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This is precisely why you can’t be taken seriously. There is nothing there to back up your bluster.
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When exactly did I express my undying devotion to Obama anyway? Just because I slam your partisan crap and you’re a buffoon does not equate to me being an “Obamabot.”
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Oh, you don’t need to “pretend to be relevant” either. You may wish to pretend to make a fact-based argument………..oh, wait….never mind.

Or repeating the same idiotic, irrelevant insult rant over and over again, 1) not being bright enough to come with an original, germane thought and 2) thinking the canned stuff is clever enough to be caught saying, even once.

Yes, my eyes are wide open and, so far, I’ll I see from you is bluster. If this “destruction” of small business is so rampant in Obama’s policies, it should be simple for you to provide compelling evidence. Anything short of that is pointless.

As per usual freeper, your argument is entirely specious and anecdotal. You had a bad experience one time and unions are forever filled with “thug.” That is a steaming pile of complete BS. Apr2563′s short recitation of the good works of unions is entirely correct.
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Even a tool such as yourself should realize that there are jerks in every company, everywhere. There are probably some employees somewhere that feel the same way about you.

You have joined the ranks of shepdork and IQ0.0. You argue facts you produce nothing but supposition and opinion based on the fact you are an asshat with little in the way of the sense God gave a dog.

I do not need to waste timing trading barbs with someone who barely walks upright. I have civil discussions (and disagreements) with several folks here. You apparently are not up to that challenge.

As I just told to superdork. You are a strong argument for abortion.

Diemush, you are getting owned by freeinpa. Quit while your behind. You sound like a horse toothed jackass who doesn’t know how to debate.

Where are these “facts” you use and where are these “civil discussions?” From what I see, you do little besides rant about Obama and the “gubmit” and insult people. I was merely communicating at your level.
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If you want a civil discourse and respect, you’ll have to earn it by supporting your arguments and you’ll also need to cease your constant insults. Feel free to look over your posting on most any topic here; you insult people regularly. Pathetic.

I honestly think that if Obama found the cure for AIDS and walked on water to save a dying baby whale….some people would still think he was two steps from the devil..sigh:( Civility where are thou

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I have learned that if you continue to argue with idiots, people will not notice the difference. Seems upthread has not noticed or stopped arguing.

Thanks for your post.

You two should get a room. I hear that padded walls are all the rage this year for “conservatives”.

I read your links decon, they tell me jack schidt. I tend to judge things by what I see, here in the real world. The great thing about this country is that if you don’t like your situation, you can change it. Or you can lay around in crap hoping the the government will come along and change your diaper. I came from a poor disfunctional environment and could have easily laid right there hoping for a handout. I have no patience with those who want to blame society for their misfortunes. There’s nothing special about me, except for my desire and willpower to rise above my surroundings. All you show me is more examples of what happens when the government attempts to cure the ills of the have nots. They just create more have nots. You bore and tire me.

Wow I thought he already did those things. Actually we’re not expecting miracles, just something, anything to benifit the country. The nobel prize just doesn’t put the cornflakes in the bowl, and for the life of me I can’t think of a damn thing he’s done except push us deeper in the hole.(common sense where art thou?