Congress’s Tepid Reaction to Obama’s Afghanistan Plan

Congressional reaction to the 30,000-troop surge in Afganistan was as tepid as President Obama’s West Point speech. As details of the plan leaked out throughout the day — with more than 30 members traveling to the White House to be personally briefed — few spoke with passion: no one – including Obama – mentioned human rights, the plight of a people at war for generations or the fate of Afghani women. For many Dems, already worried that not enough attention is being paid to the plight of American workers (and voters), the war feels like a luxury – something akin to global warming. Sure, there’s a threat somewhere down the line but hey, America recycles and Obama already added 17,000 troops in Afghanistan earlier this year. Surely these problems will not blow up in the next six months like, say, 15% unemployment: why not kick the can down the road? “Is there any way that we can delay [paying for the surge] so that we don’t stifle the recovery that seems to be beginning now?” bemoaned Senator Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut Independent who supports Obama’s plan.

In March, for the first time in Gallup polling history, Americans by a margin of 51% to 42% said economic growth should take priority over environmental concerns. A September Gallup poll found jobs and the economy the most important issue facing Americans followed by health care and unemployment. The Iraq war ranked sixth, at the bottom of the list. Neither Afghanistan nor global warming even made the cut, though “dissatisfaction with government” came in fourth. A November Gallup poll found Republicans beating Democrats in generic congressional match ups 48% to 44% and, worse, winning Independent voters 52% to 30%. And just before Tuesday’s prime time speech another Gallup poll found Obama’s approval rating on his handling of Afghanistan has sunken to an all time low: just 35%, down 14 points from early September.

If not for Obama’s campaign promise and the Dems’ eternal fear of being labeled yet again weak on national security, you get the feeling many Democrats (especially those facing tough races next November) wished the problem would simply go away with the least amount of blood and treasure spent as possible. Even Obama’s closest allies hesitated to grant their support. “President Obama asked for time to make his decision on a new policy in Afghanistan. I am going to take some time to think through the proposal he presented tonight,” Dick Durbin, the senior senator from Illinois and No. 2 Senate Democrat, said in a statement. Returning from the White House, where Obama briefed them on his plan, Rep. Jim Clyburn, the No. 3 House Democrat, called the meeting “civil and somber”; House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer labeled it “sober.”

Some Democrats frowned with distaste at the spectacle of nation building in Afghanistan. “I don’t think there’s a reasonable chance of a successful strategy with regards to nation building,” said Senator Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat who said he was inclined to oppose the surge. “We have a central [Afghani] government that’s relatively weak that has serious corruption issues — so I don’t think that should be our goal, I don’t think we can achieve that.” Others were upset that Obama’s immense popularity abroad hadn’t returned dividends in the form of NATO troops: Obama will be lucky to get the 5,000 additional NATO forces he’s aiming for. “Why are American taxpayers and our brave soldiers bearing almost all the burden in what should be an international effort? Where are Europe, Russia, China and the rest of the world?” demanded Senator Bernie Sanders, a Vermont Independent.

And while Republicans almost unilaterally support Obama’s plan, the biggest concern on both sides of the aisle was how to pay for it. The surge will cost an estimated $30 billion a year on top of the $3.6 billion a month already being spent on the war. A few Dems hoped the offsets would come naturally. “We should see some reduction in costs for Iraq,” said Senator Frank Lautenberg, a New Jersey Democrat. “And hopefully the health care plan should relieve us of significant expense.”

Realistically, Iraq will actually cost more in the short run to safely remove tens of thousands of troops and huge amounts of equipment. And health care reform – if passed — doesn’t kick in until 2013 with net savings not predicted until the end of the first decade. Obama, meanwhile, plans to have all 30,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan by the summer and for withdrawals  — if everything goes ideally — to start by July 2011. A few Republicans scoffed at the quaint Democratic notion that the war should be offset (this is the party, after all, that passed seven years worth of largely unpaid-for war supplementals). “It’s ironic that people start talking about raising taxes and exacerbating the deficit when it comes to our national security but on the stimulus people didn’t think twice in spending $1.3 trillion, including interest, in borrowed money,” said Senator John Cornyn, a Texas Republican. “I mean with 43 cents to every dollar being spent in Washington being borrowed, the Democrats finally become fiscal hawks and worry about deficits over this — it’s a little odd.”

And yet every Democrat — and most Republicans — I spoke with was adamant that the  funding, which is expected to come in a supplemental bill early next year, should be offset. House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey suggested a war tax. Senator Ben Nelson, a Nebraska Democrat, proposed war bonds. “People invested in their country in that fashion during World War II, it made a lot of sense back then,” Nelson told reporters. “I don’t know why it wouldn’t make sense today especially in lieu of jumping to taxes.” Perhaps the harshest plan came from Senator John McCain, Obama’s erstwhile Republican opponent. McCain, who supports the surge, suggested cutting non-defense discretionary spending which has ballooned nearly 15% in the last two budgetary years – both passed under the Obama Administration. “It’s pork barrel spending, corrupt spending around here. It’s corruption around here,” McCain railed to reporters Tuesday. “Increases over last year’s appropriations bills that have been approved by the Congress so far total to some $60 billion.”

Republicans also weren’t particularly enamored with Obama’s plan to start pulling troops out in 18 months and to see the war ended within three years. “As this surge of forces produces results in security, governance and in capabilities of the Afghanistan Security Forces, we must ensure that the transition of responsibilities is based on conditions, not timelines,” warned Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell in a statement. And though some progressives had been calling on Obama to include a timeline for withdrawing troops from Afghanistan, the provision was not enough to outweigh the harm, in progressive eyes, of such an expanded footprint. “I feel we have accomplished a lot with regard to having a time limit and not having it be open ended,” said Senator Russ Feingold, a Wisconsin Democrat who first called for a withdrawal timeline. “What’s disturbing is there’s a troop build up in the interim for not a clear purpose.” Feingold said the provision would not be enough for him to support the legislation.

Politicians from both sides expressed frustration with the President for yet again laying out policy in broad strokes with few details: What does troops coming home in July 2011 mean? How many? What defines success? How will the enterprise be paid for? “Until there’s a full debate I don’t think we know exactly where individual senators will land,” said Senator Bob Casey, a Pennsylvania Democrat who has yet to make up his mind on whether to support the surge. “Just as the President engaged in a thorough review, I think Congress should do the same, and that means hearings, that means debate.” The Senate Armed Services Committee will kick proceedings off with testimony Wednesday morning from Defense Secretary Bob Gates, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mike Mullen. But, with health care dominating the agenda for the foreseeable future, a full Senate debate will have to wait. In the meantime, since Obama doesn’t need Congress’s permission so much as their money, troop deployments are expected to begin.

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Related Topics: Afghanistan, Barack Obama, conress, reaction, speech, Barack Obama, Congress, Democratic Party, Republican Party, Senate, White House
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  • deconstructiva

    Thanks, Jay. Have a leftover turkey sandwich, some brandy, and go to sleep after that speech. (BTW, was Tues. KT’s b-day?)
    .
    re: the one area where HCR and Afghan war overlap / collide – treating wounded soldiers, will these (obviously) escalating costs be addressed specifically under war funding or as part of HCR? How will Congress address this, or try to avoid this? No doubt if both wars simply ended now and everyone bugged out / left the region, the saved funds could pay for HCR, alas.
    .
    Beyond trepidation, any fresh rumors you’re hearing, Jay? thanks (and sleep tight)

  • deconstructiva

    …I forgot to add, Jay, re: said 15% unemployment rate – it’s officially higher (a little-known govt. figure tracks it). Alas, I experience this way-too-high rate first-hand. http://www.cnbc.com/id/34040009

  • http://www.twitter.com/jnsmall Jay Newton-Small

    deconstructiva,
    I’m sorry to hear that. What do you do? There are provisions in HCR for wounded veterans — more money to help them keep pace with the wars and the higher number of casualty survivors given all the new miraculous war field surgical techniques. And, yup, yesterday was Karen’s bday.

    I’m now heading to bed. Between the tryptofan (I’m sure I spelled that wrong) and the late hour, I’m bushed.
    JNS

  • Cliff

    A few Dems hoped the offsets would come naturally. “We should see some reduction in costs for Iraq,” said Senator Frank Lautenberg, a New Jersey Democrat.
    .
    This is stupid. We’re borrowing money to pay for the war in Iraq.
    .
    Less money spent in Iraq does not mean more money to spend in Afghanistan – it’s all getting borrowed.
    .
    “People invested in their country in that fashion during World War II, it made a lot of sense back then,” Nelson told reporters. “I don’t know why it wouldn’t make sense today especially in lieu of jumping to taxes.”
    .
    This is even stupider. Read Yglesias:
    http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/12/does-ben-nelson-know-what-war-bonds-are.php
    .
    And this:
    .

    “It’s ironic that people start talking about raising taxes and exacerbating the deficit when it comes to our national security but on the stimulus people didn’t think twice in spending $1.3 trillion, including interest, in borrowed money,” said Senator John Cornyn, a Texas Republican. “I mean with 43 cents to every dollar being spent in Washington being borrowed, the Democrats finally become fiscal hawks and worry about deficits over this — it’s a little odd.

    .
    is the stupidest of all.
    .
    I can’t tell if Cornyn is that stupid, or if he’s a liar, or if he’s a stupid filthy liar.

  • deconstructiva

    …thanks, Jay. I’m in architecture / engineering, but the construction market is still a pile of rubble. A NC story lists a possible 40% unemployment rate for the field (I don’t live there but am not surprised).
    http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2009/06/08/focus1.html
    .
    Public works stimulus $ is slow to kick in, sigh. The cycle will turn around …later, once lending picks up and existing homes / malls are bought up (or torn down). This great site tracks specific stimulus projects in your area, hope it helps: http://www.recovery.gov/Pages/home.aspx

  • cfukara

    Now, who said that USA or Obama learnt any lessons from the wanton bloodshed and massacres in Vietnam?

    Or from Bush #43 and the horrendous war crimes in Iraq/Afghanistan/Cuba?

    Perhaps there is something to be said about brutal punishment deterring rescidivism ..

    [For it said that absolute power corrupts ...]

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    The only comedy is all this is watching the so-called “centrists” still whining about the Left. They get everything they want, never compromise and yet they still have the nerve to whine about the Left and how unreasonable they are.

  • kathy

    I’m discouraged by the response of both the Republicans and the Democrats, but especially the Democrats. No mention of human rights? Obama made it clear we’re in this war because of our national security interest. Human rights are potentially a reason to stay in the war right now, and the Democrats know that, but Obama in effect said that would be a luxury right now – we need to be in this for our National security interest. I heard Maxine Waters complaining “Where’s the end to this.” Sheesh. Could the Democrats not support this President for once, or are we determined to drive up Obama’s negatives so that the Republicans make gains enough to ensure that the Democrats don’t get any of our agenda passed?

    And the Republicans apparently want us to stay in this forever. After supporting a President who diverted attention from the war in Afghanistan for 6 years and didn’t bother to pay for any of the war efforts in real time, they’re now complaining because Obama has doubled the commitment to Afghanistan that Bush made? Talk about dithering and weakness. Saying “whine, we can’t get the job done in 18 months” is projecting weakness.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Do you think it’s possible that some Republicans might suddenly put two and two together and notice that the endless defecits and the endless foreign commitments might be related?

    Of course we could count on McCain to be a lying a$$ on the subject but perhaps there are a few Conservatives who come by their values honestly who might be able to notice the problem.

    Our resources are finite and the ability of weaponry to shape the world is limited to removing the parts that don’t suit us.

  • gpanfile

    JNS needs to go back to covering the party crashers or something. Emotion is important but not the story here. “Tepid?” We are not discussing bathwater. Lack of passion? How is that relevant? The big get is a quote from… Lieberman, R-Likud, about somehow there should be a free lunch? This is so far from a serious discussion of anything it’s ludicrous.

    Again the real story is trying to clean up eight years of mismanagement. To prevent Omar and bin Laden issuing a press release from Kabul about how they outlasted the Great Satan. Which would not have happened if a competent Bush administration had killed or captured those guys in 01-02 instead of pursuing their Mesopotamian delusions. Unbelievable.

  • Matt

    So Lieberman backed the Bush surge in Iraq unconditionally but now worries about costs when it’s Obama’s plan? That’s playing politics with our national security.

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

  • rustyreturns

    JNS:
    .
    Obambi’s speech was “tepid” simply because after 90 days post McChrystal’s delivery of his recommendations, there was nothing new. Nothing.
    .
    McChrystal asked for 40,000 – 60,000 troops. As I had said approximately 3 months ago when the McChrystal plan was “leaked”, Obama would go to the middle of the road, and only put in HALF of the troops requested. In doing so he is making the biggest mistake of his Presidency thus far.
    .
    America lost last night. Lost the ability to allow our troops to go into this God forsaken place and once and finally dispose of the enemy. Lost the ability to once and for all put al-Qaeda so far back in their caves they would never emerge into day-light. Obama has simply proven what I have said over and over, he does not have the experience or judgement to run this country.
    .
    We, Ladies and Gentlemen, are simply doomed. The Community Organizer-in-Chief is nothing more than a good telepromter reader, nothing more.

  • Paul-no not that one

    “We, Ladies and Gentlemen, are simply doomed”

    No one has less faith in the United States than a republican.

  • sacredh

    I’m sorry to hear that too deconstructiva. I hope you find employment in your field soon. Your posts are always so upbeat (and funny) that I never would have guessed it. I’m truly thankful that I’ve had the same job for my entire working life. I started as a teen stay-in-school (bless those high grades that qualified me) and I’m eligible to retire now.

  • bacalove

    After great Deliberation and Agony, Pres. Obama did not just call for the Escalation of the “struggle” but married it with a specified end date of this Struggle through military might.

    I saw in Pres. Obama a heart that bleeds for this decision for anyone whose heart center is open and active feels the pain of this task, yet, speaking with a Heavy Heart, I also heard in that speech the unspoken wish or Intent that he was going to also bring Bin Laden to justice ( the great Prize and Symbol)! I also heard the great Urgency he feels to bind up all loose nuclear threats and to prevent them from getting into those hands within Afghanistan and Pakistan which might annihilate the world as we know it. He has not made this this “call to arms” for Oil or for profit based upon a lie but a heartfelt desire to keep safe the people in the world, in the binding up of these nuclear threats to the world by this faction which he knows is still out there plotting to do harm! That in this way we are Standing up for Peace and that somehow we must go into Hell for a Heavenly cause.

    I heard him also say to the Military Industrial Complex Machine that there will be an end date, and that it will not be open-ended, but that the battle for peace might call for other strategic ways to get to this goal — that giving the benefit of the doubt to his generals — he will try their way (since they are so much more knowledgeable about military than him).

    As, he spoke about true security from a world without nuclear weapons (his real true goal), he also spoke about the need to unite with the world to accomplish this task because in truth, terror and nuclear weapons is a world problem! And finally, he called us to the time after 9/11, when we were all united but got deviated from the course, but to return to that Unity of purpose, one more time…. and that if he is lucky, he will bring home the Prize, Bin Ladin, break the back of this threat, and then for the weary and battle scarred-soldiers they can look onward and say, well done — yet, there’s no place like home, there’s no place like home!

    Let us trust ” that there is a goodness in all of life that cannot even be eliminated by thoughts that temporarily cause you to believe that negativity is the underlying reality of human life on earth… ” (1) Let us call on that goodness to illuminate our way forward towards that peace and goodwill and seal the door where evil dwells.

    1. Ron Scolastico. Doorway to the Soul

  • sacredh

    Even a godless, commie/socialist, anti-American (the REAL America that is) like me keeps a pencil tree in my bedroom decorated with red, white and blue lights lit year round. I will admit to a Bush/Cheney dartboard that I had to throw away because it had so many holes in it that the darts wouldn’t stick anymore.

  • sacredh

    Thank you for a great post.

  • deckerfamily03

    okay…seriously? After 8 years of not caring about how much the wars were costing us…NOW the republicans are screaming about the cost? Where the hell have they been? Are they really that stupid? Or rather, do they really think the people are stupid enough to forget about those years, and only remember what talking point they come up with now? Give me a break.

  • 53_3

    Same here decon,
    .
    I’ve been lucky enough to have hung on to my job during this storm, but I have friends, fiends and relatives who weren’t.

  • 53_3

    Does it count if I fly the American flag, have two trucks with R, W & B mudflaps, and a T-shirt with George Bush and Dick Cheney’s picture on it, with “Meet the F*ckers” under it?

  • 53_3

    “Our resources are finite and the ability of weaponry to shape the world is limited to removing the parts that don’t suit us.
    .
    This made my day. Swampland needs to have a Hall of Fame for commentary.

  • 53_3

    Ahyuh! Ahyuh!
    .
    And Good ol’ Boosh pointed the way, didn’t he?
    .
    Or didn’t…

  • rustyreturns

    No, PNNTO, I have great faith in the people of the United States of America. It is the STUPID IDIOT you and the rest of the liberals elected as President that I lack any confidence in to run this country.
    .
    Face up to it and admit it already. Your President is nothing more than a tele-prompter reader. Nothing more.
    .
    I would believe in Jeremiah Wright more than Obama, at least he has had some military experience to fall back on. But, like Wright, Obama HATES America and only wishes for it’s total demise. That is what you want too, isn’t it PNNTO?

  • freeinpa

    “But in this case, the public was more disturbed than entertained. Indeed, one could see the phenomenon in a number of places in recent weeks: Obama’s magic no longer works. The allure of his words has grown weaker.”

    Der Speigel

    Yes the world likes us and after the election haze has passed the world is figuring out Obama rather quickly, that voting present was his only strength He is an empty suit, indeed.

  • sacredh

    53_3: It counts. I have a collection of anti-Bush/Cheney t-shirts too. Most of them came from republican friends. I also have a roll of Bush toilet paper that is near and dear to my heart. Well, maybe not my heart.

  • 53_3

    Worse, Rusty:
    .
    There was this vast left wing conspiracy. You see, we “liberals” elected him precisely because you think he’s a stupid idiot!

  • conversets

    JNS: “…no one – including Obama – mentioned human rights, the plight of a people at war for generations…”

    OBAMA: “The people of Afghanistan have endured violence for decades. They’ve been confronted with occupation — by the Soviet Union, and then by foreign al Qaeda fighters who used Afghan land for their own purposes. So tonight, I want the Afghan people to understand — America seeks an end to this era of war and suffering. We have no interest in occupying your country. We will support efforts by the Afghan government to open the door to those Taliban who abandon violence and respect the human rights of their fellow citizens.”

    Let’s see, “human rights”–check; “plight of people at war for generations”–check.

    Helps if you read the piece before you blabber on about it, Ms. Small.

  • allthingsinaname

    Couldn’t help but notice who was doing the whinning.

  • http://noaj39.wordpress.com noaj39

    Great post, I heard exactly what you wrote. seems to me there is more of a war going on between the Democrats and Republicans. How shamefull. No war is good. Setting deadlines can change…..How many of the negative bloggers have a family member who they lost in a war or were in war. Are you really saying you would die for your county? Call me any nasty name, but honestly I like my life and would rather give back to my community than die for it.

  • allthingsinaname

    Nothing new? So he he is going with McCrystal then? The very man that the GOP said that we must follow, and we are doomed?

    Come on Rusty, we are doomed indeed, give it a rest.

  • nflfoghorn

    If it doesn’t help your political career, it’s a cost overrun. If it does, it’s necessary to the security of our nation.

  • nflfoghorn

    I admit that the speech sounded like Dubya in blackface. Nonetheless what’s done is done. We can only hold the president’s feet to the fire when he says the mission will take (roughly) 18 months. The alternative – to turn tail and run now – is unacceptable. There’s probably going to be a US presence of some sort in the region for many years to come, IF we still haven’t captured/killed those who we should’ve gotten in the first place.

    And when will we tell Pakistan to either step up the hunt for terrorists or we’ll do it for them?

  • allthingsinaname

    Let me just comment Rusty, your posts, along with others from the far right, and left, and from great on line places like TPM, Daily Kos, Huffington Post, and from people such has Rush, Beck, Palin, Cheney, are just plain depressing.

    It seems to me that the American people are being forced to endure such rants.

  • pintortwo

    The alternative – to turn tail and run now – is unacceptable.
    .
    Leaving now would be quite acceptable, and smart.

  • pintortwo

    It’s a sad day. This country needed a progressive leader. We needed someone to lead us out of Iraq and Afghanistan post-haste, and to cut the military budget significantly. We needed someone to put some of that money into building schools, bridges and highways; into developing clean energy, alternate fuel and technology ($700 billion can go a long way). Someone to restrict (eliminate?) campaign contributions and lobbying. Someone to enforce antitrust laws and regulate the banking, insurance and commodity trading industries. But we got Obama- perhaps worse that his predecessor. At least with Bush it was obvious that he had given the Office over to the hawks, elites and radicals; and we could mount an opposition. Now, the opposition (to Obama) is likely be more wingnutty then ever before. And I fear that the “cure” will be worse than the disease.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    Don’t worry the phony liberal will be back in a few years asking for your vote and money.

  • conversets

    What “phony liberal” are you talking about?

    Obama is doing exactly what he said he would do during the campaign: wind down the war in Iraq and step-up the effort in Afghanistan and Pakistan to go after al Queda.

    Helps if you pay attention occasionally.

  • FlownOver

    That’s OK; giving him money and votes would still be preferable to a return to control by the incompetent fearmongers, corporate whores and theocrats.

  • pintortwo

    And BTW, the smartest thing mentioned here was by Senator Cardin:
    .
    .
    “I don’t think there’s a reasonable chance of a successful strategy with regards to nation building. We have a central [Afghani] government that’s relatively weak that has serious corruption issues — so I don’t think that should be our goal, I don’t think we can achieve that.”
    .
    .
    It is very unlikely that we would be able to build a strong central government in Afghanistan; it’s foolish to think that way. And what would we gain if we did? Most likely another government that doesn’t want us to interfere and probably won’t like us. Democratic governance does not equal pro-US.

  • spob

    Strange the muted reaction in the MSM over Chris Matthews’ “enemy camp” comment.
    .
    Rush Limbaugh has gotten pilloried in here by Swampland reporters, yet none have a comment on Chris Matthews? Interesting. The “enemy camp” comment is offensive.

  • Art Pepper

    So it was Republicans (and their perpetual enablers the centrist Democratics) who dropped the ball in Afghanistan and borrowed $1T in order to blow up Iraq for no reason whatsoever, and now they are worried about $30B to clean up their own mess? F*ck them.

  • pintortwo

    The Swampland blog is hardly Mainstream Media and Limbaugh has earned every break he doesn’t get. Further, I don’t expect progressives to circle the wagons to protect Matthews; most don’t consider him one of their own. I’d be happy to see him wallow in his stupidity.
    .
    Conspiracy? No.

  • freeinpa

    Obviously, Chris Tingles gets a “Moron Go Free” Pass. While it is disgusting, it does provide a window into the true thoughts of liberals. Every now and then a kernal of truth is leaked between the mountain of lies . Most Swamplanders won’t pillory Mathews but will defend him. Why? They despise the military and and what it stands for in our history.

    What you will get is “don’t question their patriotism”. That is correct, you can’t question what they don’t have. To the looney left, patriotism is a punch line.

    What the left can’t understand is why the mere election of Obama’s itself did not end the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. The delay in his decision was him trying to vote present and not make any decision.

  • rmrd

    Which Limbaugh comments have you found offensive?

  • nflfoghorn

    So do you *want* terrorists to run around free? Or will they switch allegiances and all turn into good guys?

  • nflfoghorn

    Agreed. For what it’s worth, Matthews got a scolding about it from Bill Press on his radio show.

  • nflfoghorn

    HA! (Check out 3.1.)

  • pintortwo

    Media Matters (liberal, right?) has posted the “enemy state” broadcast and opened it to comment. Unsurprisingly, most feel Matthews is a buffoon, take him to task and say he is not a liberal.
    .
    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200912010043

  • gwbc

    I ddn`t read past your first ridiculous statement .President Obama`s statement was anything but tepid. Congress has every reason to debate and question it, but from the little I heard , the questioning is anything but tepid.

  • stuartzechman

    Thank you so much for responding to commentary, Jay Newton-Small.

  • gysgt213

    “Strange the muted reaction in the MSM over Chris Matthews’ “enemy camp” comment.”
    .
    Spob-I am really not sure why you find this strange. Let’s be honest what this is really about. Tweety after all still has several shows not just Hard Ball, the reporters and their bosses in the mainstream media love to appear on. Tweety is an entrenched member of the village so don’t hold your breath for the pilloring of Tweety. No matter how consipiracy ridden, sexist or racist or just plain ignorant his leering and comments become.
    .
    As for Rush I really don’t think a magazine that gave white washing treatment to Ann Coulter and then followed with the same type of treatment for Glenn Beck is going to take on Rush. Not a chance.

  • shepherdwong

    Perhaps if he had promised them a pony.

  • shepherdwong

    “Obama would go to the middle of the road, and only put in HALF of the troops requested. In doing so he is making the biggest mistake of his Presidency thus far.”
    .
    Barack Obama has committed more troops to the Afghanistan war in his first year as president than President Cheney did in the entire eight years of the Bush Debacle. @sshole.

  • cfukara

    ” .. To prevent .. about how they outlasted the Great Satan. ..”
    That sounds vaguely familiar.
    We couldn’t let those commies overrun S Vietnam: Our civilization depended on it. They had no air power nor tanks. We had the supremacy – on land and airspace. More troops. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. We had to prevent them from winning.
    And they did. And the sky did not fall down. And the commies of Vietnam have the fastest growing economy in South East Asia – and in the Asia region, it is surpassed only by that of the commies of China.
    And, of course, the vultures/plunderers of the west will not stay away ..

    ” .. Which would not have happened if a competent Bush administration had killed or captured those guys in 01-02 ..”
    How naive!
    We captured, tortured, raped and killed many guys in Vietnam. And the Israelis have wreaked havoc on Palestine for decades – destruction and massacre upon destruction and massacres.

  • stuartzechman

    the Dems’ eternal fear of being labeled yet again weak on national security
    .
    Labeled by whom?

  • deconstructiva

    Thanks sacred and 53_3. The construction fields are always extremely volatile. Over half the staff at my last job got tossed or quit, and other firms got hit harder. There’s so much turnover now in real estate – abandoned, foreclosed, and re-sold properties – but there will be lots of work redeveloping these in a recovery. It’s happened before, just tougher right now.

  • gysgt213

    Um-that is easy who likes labels the most? The press!

  • pintortwo

    So do you *want* terrorists to run around free? Or will they switch allegiances and all turn into good guys?
    @ nfl 17.4
    .
    .
    (T)he al Qaeda presence (in Afghanistan) is very diminished. The maximum estimate is less than 100 operating in the country. No bases. No ability to launch attacks on either us or our allies.
    .
    -General James Jones
    .
    .
    The attackers who carried out 9/11 succeeded through a lot of luck and a mixture of complacency and incompetence on the part of America’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Terrorism did not threaten our form of government or our way of life then and does not do so now. An assessment by France’s highly regarded Paris Institute of Political Studies last week suggested that Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda has likely been reduced to a core group of eight to ten terrorists who are on the run more often than not.
    .
    -former CIA agent Philip Giraldi
    .
    .
    Iranians don’t have a nuclear weapons program. They have never invaded another country. Their conventional forces have limited capability. Their army has never deployed more than about ten miles from its border, and that was only during the eight-year war with Iraq when Saddam Hussein invaded them. Their navy is a coast guard and their air force is a junkyard. Their defense budget is less than one percent of ours. Iran is a pismire.
    .
    -US Navy Commander Jeff Huber
    .
    .
    Our folly in Af, Pak, Iraq, Iran has nothing to do with any threat to the United States. Atta was a Saudi educated in Germany and living in the US, bin Laden is the son of a wealthy Saudi family- terrorists don’t need sanctuary in Afghanistan to plan an attack, the blackberry in their pockets will do very nicely. We do not need to be there.
    .
    The oil-for-US dollar monopoly has become the paramount American virtue. Elites have chosen to value oil and military spending over the lives of our soldiers and those living in the region; over infrastructure, jobs, technology, debt and clean fuel. This is economics, not national security. War is our fiscal policy. Shame on us.

  • cfukara

    “Let us call on that goodness to illuminate our way forward towards that peace and goodwill and seal the door where evil dwells.”

    And now, when I snap my fingers you will wake up from your trance.
    SNAP!

  • deconstructiva

    …I’ll bet the R’s are printing labels too to make themselves look tougher …even if OBL escaped from Tora Bora under W’s watch, but I digress.

  • shepherdwong

    Seriously. Obam’s being called weak even as we speak for committing more troops to Afghanistan in his first year than the previous Republican administration managed to put into theater in eight years of war. Try looking up thread.

  • Ike Jakson

    Is anybody excited? Well, maybe Joe Klein is? President Obama’s problem is that he is all talk and hot air. He talks and talks … and talks but I am yet to hear him saying something with any substance.

  • freeinpa

    Pretty much anybody who speaks to the issue including most Democrats

  • stuartzechman

    Dirks:
    .
    Somebody should correct me if I’m wrong, but (theoretical) conservatives believe that the only truly appropriate role for government to embrace with “Do Something” passion is related to the conduct of wars, and management of state security.
    .
    When McCain says that discretionary spending should be cut to nothing before we eliminate entitlements before we even think of paying for war, he’s being consistent.
    .
    In their minds, the only reason borrowing is necessary for war is that the government is spending tax money on inappropriate things like Social Security and the Interstate highway system.
    .
    Once we eliminate social spending to nothing, and infrastructure spending down to the minimum level required to guarantee the transport or conduct of military operations and communications, there will be more than enough money to pay for endless wars, don’t you see?
    .
    The problem isn’t that we can’t pay for war, it’s that we already tax too much to pay for necessities best provided for by the private sector, and that we’re borrowing to cover the rest of the costs of those egregious programs not compensated by the wealth creation-stifling (and unconstitutional) tax regime.
    .
    It’s marginally consistent…not with the founders’ intent, though, obviously.
    .
    What’s irreconcilable in their ideology is the primacy of local independence associated with federalism and powerful private interests with the enormity of the centralized state necessary to “keep everyone safe”.
    .
    The contradictions inherent in their faux-originalism pave the road to intellectual bankruptcy.

  • deconstructiva

    “In their minds, the only reason borrowing is necessary for war is that the government is spending tax money on inappropriate things like Social Security and the Interstate highway system.”
    .
    Eisenhower promoted the interstate highways and got the laws passed to start them. Did other R’s at the time oppose this?

  • spob

    I guess it would be interesting for the Swampland reporters to weigh in–why the silence on Matthews’ appalling comment?

  • spob

    It would be interesting to hear from the Swampland reporters why Rush got posts here, but Matthews’ really offensive comment gets nada.

  • cfukara

    So, we slaughter millions of turkeys and enjoy our Thanksgiving with happy family.
    How many cave-dwellers were slaughtered over the Thanksgiving? And how many were berieved over the past year?
    We – especially the evangelical christians – really don’t care about the other guy’s grief or sorrow.
    ..
    30,000 more troops. Why not 1,000,000 more?
    What are the projections and expectations for the extra troops. How many more Afghanis will die before the hostilities die down?
    After all kids, women and men were slaughtered in a village in Vietnam, it was said by the American executioner-soldier that the village had to be “sanitized” so as to save it from communism.
    Are we intent on ‘sanitizing’ Afghanistan?
    And Iraq?
    And Palestine?
    And Pakistan?
    (And Zimbabwe? ….. And Nigeria? ..)

    Were the multitudes of mostly civilian Afghani, Iraqi and Pakistani responsible for any grudges we have?

    Surge. What have those mostly innocent cave-dwellers the surge is going to kill do to us?
    ————–

  • cfukara

    conversets: ” .. Helps if you read the piece before you blabber on about it, Ms. Small. .. “

    I am tempted to assume that you are wilfully hypocritical.

    It helps if you THINK about the deadly, duplicitous pretensions of a siren’s song before you enthuse about it.

    “human rights”–check our track record of human rights violations, and the wilful accommodation of same, with regard to
    - USA’s renditions and torture;
    - war crimes in the Middle East(Al Haditha, Mosul, Baghram, Abu Ghraib, Afghanistan, N Pakistan ..);
    - support of regimes that commit horrendous human rights violations (Israel, Morrocco, Yemen, apartheid South Africa);
    - evils and human toll of current and historical institutionalized racism in USA;
    - and the imposition of gratuitous, satanic economic sanctions which destroy nations and kill multitudes by starvation and opportunistic diseases (current Iran, Saddam’s Iraq, current Zimbabwe, Castro’s Cuba).

    …piety check:
    “Terror”? Guess who has more kids in Iraq/Afghanistan cowering in their caves in terror – straining to hear the sound of that missile, drone or helicopter which heralds the last moments of their lives?
    “war”? Who is responsible for more deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan? (Or, indirectly, Palestine?)
    ….

    Islamists? Being mostly christian nation like ours does not save the mostly christian African nations like Zimbabwe and South Africa from our murderous imposition.

    “plight of people at war for generations”–check the part played by the USA in fanning generations of unrest (Iraq, Iran, Cuba, Chile, Zimbabwe) and initiating or escalating decades of “regime change” wars while pursuing our imperial foreign policy objectives around the world.
    And indeed, it often happens that the natives of the lands are left as poor or even poorer after our overt and/or covert interventions.(Haiti, Grenada, Nicaragua, Panama, Cuba, Iraq, Somalia.. (and Kenya!))

    Indeed, we are on a crusade of waging a scotched-earth, essentially slaughter-the-innocent-cave-dweller war in Afghanistan in much the same way that the Soviets got there. And they had their lofty rhetoric too.

    How about S Vietnam? Wars had been raging on and off in that land for centuries. So, after the French had their turn at blood letting, it was our turn at the waging war accompanied by the necessary psyche ops of soaring rhetoric about how godly we are and how evil the commies are.

    ‘Change’?
    So far, you may agree that Pres Obama administration has turned out as expected – all soaring rhetoric (of the “words just words” ilk) but still as singularly predatory and viciously imperial – in pursuit of jewish and western/white colonial, predatory exceptionalism – as the previous administration of the irish-british presidents of USA.

  • stuartzechman

    deconstructiva:

    Eisenhower promoted the interstate highways and got the laws passed to start them. Did other R’s at the time oppose this?

    A correction and a clarification:
    .
    1) The interstate system was purportedly for defense, as it would provide a standardized means for military planners to convoy resources in the event of a conventional North American theater operation. Although not solely rationalized upon the basis of defense (just post-New Deal supporters didn’t have to), it was conceived on the model of Nazi Germany’s system, and so can reasonably fit into conservatives’ notions of acceptable state endeavors.
    .
    2) Federal Republican representatives and officials were not modern movement conservatives prior to the 1990′s, and the pre-New Deal Republican conservatives had been thoroughly discredited by the success of liberal policies at that point in time. That “other R’s at the time” did or did not oppose the interstate system isn’t the real question to ponder. The question should probably be “Did the founders of modern movement conservatism consider opposition to the interstate highway system because of its obvious impact on markets?”

  • stuartzechman

    So do you *want* terrorists to run around free?
    .
    Is that a *rhetorical* question?

  • cfukara

    Excellent comment.

    ” .. The maximum estimate is less than 100 (Al-Queda) operating in the country. ..”

    95,000(?) of the USA against 100 of the enemy.
    Can it be that the enemy is THAT good – or should we say that a duplicitous POTUS is not telling us something?

    ” The oil-for-US dollar monopoly has become the paramount American virtue. .oil and military spending .. This is economics, not national security. War is our fiscal policy.

  • shepherdwong

    Amy (in the first sentence):
    .
    “…few spoke with passion: no one – including Obama – mentioned human rights, the plight of a people at war for generations or the fate of Afghani women.”
    .
    The fact is, the American people stopped caring much (if they ever did) about “collateral damage” with the firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo and the nuclear bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, more than fifty years ago. Once the killing of non-combatants, either willfully of through careless disregard, could be justified strictly on the basis of saving the lives of soldiers, we stopped being the moral nation you desire. Sorry.

  • shepherdwong

    Apologies, that was Jay Newton-Small who went right to the heart of the matter.

  • http://www.floor55.com/2009/12/02/something-gotta-give/ Something gotta give | Floor 55

    [...] very wary. The economy has taken its toll, making the wars, however seemed legitimate in 2001, are luxury items today. Obama recognized this sentiment during the speech when he mentioned that the only [...]

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    So, what about the administration that actually had Bin Ladin in handcuffs and let him go? I believe he smoked glazed cigars?

  • abdullah69

    In eighteen months time, the numbers will be looking like 250 Al – Qaeda and 120,000 US troops. What happens then?

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Let’s all join in a rousing, soulful chorus of Kum bae ya!

  • cfukara

    ” .. initiating or escalating decades of “regime change” wars ..”

    And the we hypocritically bemoan the lack of freedoms in the lands we thus destabilize.

    No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.
    — James Madison, Political Observations, 1795

    .. the politically potent AARP rode to the rescue of Democrats on Wednesday, supporting $460 billion in Medicare cuts to help pay for landmark health insurance legislation.

    50,000,0000 starving and/or diseased Americans without sufficient health insurance – in “the richest and freest nation in history” – according to Dick “the measly-hearted” Cheney. We quibble that we don’t have the funds to cover them.
    What are we missing here?
    Suppose:
    1) We commit to winding down the adventurism in Afghanistan within a year. [After all, what do we expect to achieve in 3 years - other than more cave-dwelling kids and mothers dead and old civilizations destroyed for ever - Mayan-style?]
    How much do we recover?

    2) Is killing some Afghani, Iraqi and African kids more important to us than the health of American citizens?
    Suppose we cut our military expenditure by half. How much do we recover for the “we, the people” not covered in the current HCR bill?
    Over $600 Billion.
    Dangerous? No. Even after such a cut, we will be outspending the next highest spenders (China + France + UK + Russia – COMBINED.
    [While we are at it, then let us suggest cutting spending by 10! Even after that, we will be spending about as much as the next highest spender, China. But we will still have the advantage in size of economy, advanced technology, number of nuclear warheads and chemical/biological warfare stockpiles. What are the repercussions of going to war with China or France or UK or Russia? Asymptotically dire for humans and thus not worth worrying about.]

  • http://2thirdsrocks.wordpress.com 2thirdsrocks

    Swampland does have a hall of fame for commentary. It’s called “The Toilet”.

  • michaelfury

    “Where are Europe, Russia, China and the rest of the world?”

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/the-gas-must-flow/

    “In a report to be released today, energy economist John Foster says the pipeline is part of a wider struggle by the United States to counter the influence of Russia and Iran over energy trade in the region.

    The so-called Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India pipeline has strong support from Washington because the U.S. government is eager to block a competing pipeline that would bring gas to Pakistan and India from Iran.

    The TAPI pipeline would also diminish Russia’s dominance of Central Asian energy exports.”

  • abdullah69

    The US spends millions of dollars each year on military spending, but is unconcerned that military strategies are locked into the nineteenth century philosophy of “invade and occupy” which was discredited by practically every twentieth century conflict, Vietnam included.

    For the US to commit more ground troops and hope the politics work out is just another repeat of the Vietnam experience.

    The US has two options – A) to follow the British experience in Malaya in the middle of the last century when the Communist insurgency was suppressed through the intelligent but widespread use of special forces,
    or B) nuke Waziristan. Not only would this certainly eliminate Al – Qaeda for the lifetimes of most sitting senators, but would scare the poop out of Iran, Pakistan, and every other nuclear state in the region including Israel. A few dead Pakistanis and Afghans for peace in the Middle East? Could be worth it.
    Domestically, it would destroy Republican opposition to the administration. It would shake up the Democrats too, but would that be such a bad thing?

  • cfukara

    ” .. Over $600 Billion.”

    Make that “Over $300 Billion.”

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    What “phony liberal” are you talking about?

    Obama is doing exactly what he said he would do during the campaign: wind down the war in Iraq and step-up the effort in Afghanistan and Pakistan to go after al Queda.

    Helps if you pay attention occasionally.”

    .

    When does the wind down in Iraq begin?

  • cfukara

    Then?
    AH, I can imagine it: A scene right out of McNamara playbook of the the 60s:

    We cannot fail now.
    Commit more troops. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
    If Afghanistan fails, Al-Queda will overrun Iraq. And nuclear-armed Pakistan. And the Saudi Arabia. Remember the “domino theory”.
    The very foundation of the western civilization is threatened. If we fail now, Americans will wake up to a terrorist in every garage and Islamic Sharia in the courts. Would you rather have mushroom clouds blooming and chiming “Allah Akhbar!” all over our USA!

    (At this point the Israelis will be chiming in with screechy proclamations of their self-declared special bond with the cursed gentiles of USA (! !) – to whine that their parasitic, belligerent, roguish existence is threatened. “So?” Cheney may chime in.)

  • http://worldpoliticsblog.wordpress.com/2009/12/03/where-are-the-good-options-in-afghanistan/ Where are the Good Options in Afghanistan? « World Politics News Review

    [...] presence in the country, combined with ah planned drawdown after 18 months. Like many compromises, Obama’s position is likely to please no one. Critics on the right assert that we must do whatever is necessary to win in Afghanistan, [...]

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