Republican-not

I am familiar with the argument about the Senate being a deliberative body. But for some time now Senators, acting like prima donnas, appear to enjoy threat of the filibuster and the hold ( the grabbing of a sensitive part???). Sen Coburn has made it into a fetish. For once I would like to see Sen Reid take on the filibuster, keep the session going day and night with no end in sight, and let the game play out.

At this time I have little time for their antics, especially that of Ben Nelson and his gang of 3. McConnell? The less said the better.

It sure does make all of those “Country First” signs at their rallies look like a joke. I don’t get it.

especially those bills that aggrandize their special interests at the expense of the public interest.
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“Special interests” = labor and “public interest” = Goldman Sachs, presumably?
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But yeah, the GOP is completely unserious, completely in the thrall of a militant, ignorant, idea-free base of elderly whites.

The Democratic Party already has an opposition party arguing against it positions. It’s called the Democratic Party.

The demographics of the country can’t change fast enough for me. They evidently aren’t satisfied with getting a slice of the pie. In another generation they’ll have to settle for the crumbs.

Spot on. You can always rely on Democrats to turn on their own when in power. The Blue Dog Democrat looks suspiciously like a Republcan ” light ” version. And the idiots think they have a “hold” (hat tip to bitter!) on Lieberman?

It’s a scorched earth strategy. They are legislative terrorists.

It’s all about “we the people”. The MSM, Hollywood, the bloggers etc. have done everything in their power to deride and ridicule the protesters, but all it has done is increase they’re numbers. The dems could pass this bill, there are ways. But oh the price they would pay. The time has finally come when they actually are being forced to serve the people for a change. The playground name calling has become just so much background noise. Health care reform is not the number one issue today. They’re making it so, but just ask the people. Not just a few liberal bloggers, but the people. They’ll tell you it’s jobs. They’ll tell you they’ve had a bellyfull of watching our boy’s die in Afganistan. Heathcare is just not the main issue. Ask the American people, all of them, how they feel about KSM. The overwhelming majority, liberals included, will tell you he needs to die, actually should have been dead already. But that’s not what you gather when you read these blogs. Amazes me how many people want to defend his “rights”. So many people have lost their jobs, and as a result lost they’re healthcare. It seems pretty simple to me, get the jobs back. Then we can work on healthcare. Why do they call it common sense when there seems to be so little of it.

This is the case.

Joe Klein:
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If you’re correct, then why aren’t the same centrists getting together with Senators like McCain to work out a deal to stop Harry Reid from using the nuclear option?
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Republicans aren’t the problem, Joe Klein…centrist Democrats who join with the GOP minority to make filibuster threats credible are. Centrist Democratic leadership whose overarching ideological goal of bipartisan compromise allows for filibuster threats to derail process are also to blame.
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The Republicans can’t do this all by themselves.

“a party led by nihilists”

So it would seem:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/black-box/

Sorry, Joe Klein, it’s a busy morning for me.
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By “the same centrists”, I meant the 7 DLC Democrats in the Gang of 14 who stopped the Dem minority from filibustering when the GOP was in the majority (and Majority Leader Frist threatened the nuclear option to end the filibuster rule).

Getting the jobs back is anything but simple. Companies get tax breaks when they move their operations overseas. We’re coming out of the worst recession in 70 years. Jobs creation always lags behind a rebound in the markets. Much of this is about healthcare. We have one party that recognizes the need for a major overhaul of the entire system and another party that insists that we just need to tweak it. We are far past the time when tweaking was an option.
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It’s hard to say how this is all going to play out in either the short or long term. It’s still a year away from the midterms and anything can happen. If history is any guide at all, the dems will suffer losses. It’s hard to imagine them not after two wave elections. I don’t think the dems will lose control of either house, but honestly, nothing surprises me anymore.

sacredh

We have one party that recognizes the need for a major overhaul of the entire system

Which party is that?

I concede. I’ll amend that to the progressive wing of the democratic party.

I have doubts about some of the legislation the Democrats are producing, especially those bills that aggrandize their special interests at the expense of the public interest.
So what legislation are we talking about here? I am going to guess you have absolutely no idea, but you so reflexively play the pox on both houses crap because that is what years in the decrepit traditional media breeds.

“The Blue Dog Democrat looks suspiciously like a Republcan ” light ” version”

That is because they are Republicans in many respects. The moderates in the Repbulican party had to go somewhere after being purged out of their own party. Hence the rise in people self-reporting as being “Independent”.

Republicans only want things getting done on Capitol Hill if they control it. Otherwise, it’s screw the American people…

http://www.political-buzz.com/

I am shocked, shocked I say. Joe Klein and EJ Dionne don’t like what Republicans and Conservatives are doing. Joe save us the time. Here is your next thousand posts: I don’t like conservatives attached is an equally pathetic journalist who shares my view. It fits any topic.

For all the bile vented here about conservatives lying and Fox News lying, the biggest liars remain liberals who continue to lie to themselves. The righteous indignation for doing things that Democrats of all stripes have done is at best comical. At worst you are seriously delusional to think their actions are any different.

What is needed is a third party, one that takles the center, and leaves the frings screaming at each other with out effect. Neither side wants to compromise with the other.

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you voted for a democrat for president? The last time I voted republican was when I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Michael Dukakis. I’ve also never voted independent because it just seemed like throwing your vote away. Protest votes are futile.

Goldman Sachs is also a special interest group. The problem with capitulating to labor is they’re part of a group that gets a pretty decent health insurance plan (in general) and have the clout needed to keep their plans if times get tough – they can afford for their plans to be taxed just as much as Goldman Sachs can afford for its plan to be taxed. Capitulating to Labor at the expense of the millions of Americans who are neither part of a union (which is the vast majority of working Americans – for better or for worse) nor have health insurance is almost as bad as capitulating the Goldman Sachs – I say almost because Goldman Sachs knows how to ruin the economy far better than labor does.

The Republicans have claimed that “the American people” don’t want what they voted for last November, until they have succeeding in so distorting what is being offered that the American people are in fact close to rejecting it.

As to whether the Republicans will be held accountable for obstructionism, that probably depends entirely on the quality of the Democrats who run against them.

It pains me that conclusions are being drawn from any of the races this month while ignoring the persons of Corzine and Deeds. I would have had trouble voting for either one of them.

Dionne’s article is a ‘pox on both houses’ that I can agree with:

By using Republican obstructionism as a vehicle for forcing through their own narrow agendas, supposedly moderate Democratic senators will only make themselves complicit in this humiliation.

I’m sure the centrist Dems’ agendas are more concerned with protecting their incumbencies than opposing legislation based on ideological grounds; the knee-jerk opposition of the Republicans just strengthens their hands.

Bullies and cowards, the lot of them.

1992. I felt GHWB was not running to win and was trying to appease folks of all stripes.

Neither side wants to compromise with the other.
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Bullsh!t.

Historical fact: Tax cuts have ALWAYS expanded business and created jobs. Increases have ALWAYS stifled them. Again, incredibly simple to me, but maybe I’m just living in a bubble……?

Seriously? Are you naive or stupid? And Democrats only want to pass things that are in their interests. So how is that any different?

To be fair, I don’t expect the minority party to be putting forth too many affirmative solutions. When Bush tried to privatize Social Security the Democrats effectively resisted by NOT putting forward other solutions, they simply said that they didn’t want his idea to be put into place. I consider that a major victory for our side. So I certainly can’t criticize them for doing the same.

It sounds like were the flip sides of the same coin. I used to work for various campaigns but I think I’m ready to stop. Both parties make me sick so I’m probably going to just send money and vote from now on. Going door to door just doesn’t appeal to me anymore. The last time i was a poll watcher I was paired up with a pretty funny lesbian. We spent the whole evening checking out and commenting on the women. We had similar tastes.

“Tax cuts have ALWAYS expanded business and created jobs. Increases have ALWAYS stifled them.”

That is so incredibly full of platypus turds. You need to read Justin Fox.

“Tax cuts have ALWAYS expanded business and created jobs. Increases have ALWAYS stifled them. ”

That is so incredibly full of crap. You need to read Justin Fox for a change.

Hit the nail on the head freeinpa. Joe Klein and his twin at the Washington Post, E J Dionne are purely liberals patting each other on the back for their observations of the Senate.
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They detest Blue Dog Dems and Republicans simply because they are using the same tactics which were used by the Liberal Dems in the Senate just a few short years ago.
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Hate to break it to ya Bubba Joe. America has spoken up since the last election, and they DO NOT LIKE what Obama has brought with him to the White House.
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America understands we need some health care reform, but we also recognize that the economy has been so screwed up by the Democrats and the White House that now is NOT the time for liberal / progressive reforms. NOT the time for big entitlement programs when we are well over 12 TRILLION dollars in debt.
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But what does Joe and EJ pine for? SPEND SPEND SPEND
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Hell the Democrats havn’t figured out yet what all the stimulus money created, let alone how to figure out how much all the health care reform will cost and who will be affected by it for the next 20 or 30 years.
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Change for simply change sake is not good for the Country. Change that Obama has proposed is nothing more than smoke and mirror politics to transfer massive amounts of money from lobbyist A to lobbyist B.
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America is now awake. We understand that those in Washington are not looking out for our best interests. We see in their bills the complexity, that they will not even read, let alone understand.
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Voters will react in 2010 you can bet on it. Out with the OLD and in with the NEW. Gone are the liberals who want to spend us into the future and perhaps destroy our great Nation. Stopping them now as the Republicans are attempting to do is saving us from total destrution by the Democrats.
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When you can define Joe Klein what it is exactly and how much it will cost for health care reform, then and only then will we listen. Otherwise take your garbage postings here and shove them up inside where the sun doesn’t shine!!

Whoa, delayed time zone on the replies. Sorry about that.

I blame it on alternative universes and time travel paradoxes. I hate it when that happens.

Finally an honest man!

Hmmm, so maybe I really am living in a bubble?

Rusty:
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I’m guessing you missed last night’s Daily Show, when Jon Stewart distilled reality into a simple explanation: the Republicans don’t really support small government – they just support Republican government. They only get concerned about overspending when someone else is doing it. After eight years of giveaways to billionaires and a trillion on the credit card for rd for an unnecessary war, the recent GOP shirt-rending over the sudden discovery of “big government” is a bad joke.

You brought up lesbians, sacred.

I sat in for 2 or 3 gigs a few years back with a pop rock band that had a lesbian drummer. One of the coolest chicks I know. We’re friends to this day, not close, but whenever we bump into each other we always have a blast. And she knows I’m a conservative. It’s nice to be accepted for who you are.

That’s not how I remember it. The Democratic response was to note that (1) Bush’s “sky is falling” claims about Social Security were grossly exaggerated, (2) the proposed solution would have put millions of Americans’ retirement resources at risk (a pretty good call, as it turned out) for the benefit of Wall Streeters, and (3) we needed to consider alternatives like increased contributions by the upper-income folks, most of whose income is exempt. The GOP was uninterested in taxing its own, so its response to a call for alternatives became “My way or nothing.” Doing nothing turned out to be the wiser alternative.

Ffred

Justin Fox? Everyone should look to a Political Scientist with a specialty in American Politics to study tax policy. Why not add Robert Reich as well.

Rustydog:
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Joe Klein is not a liberal.

Party of Snit! Love it!

Here’s a satirical look at the GOP:

http://bit.ly/fxv3G

(satire)

About that “historical fact” :
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See this *LINK* to a Forbes discussion of historical reality, including the consequences of a tax increase under Saint Ronnie.

Republicans, at least in their current manifestation, don’t want anything getting done on capital hill. Period.

@2thirdsrocks: maybe its just me, but don’t you have to raise taxes at some point so you can be able to cut taxes at another point. Unless you’re proposing cutting without ever raising taxes, which by logic will eventually get us to zero taxes at some point. I’m I getting this all wrong?

durangodave

As opposed to a philosophy of passing a bill any bill regardless of the size or consequence, I prefer not to pass any bill.

SZ:

I am intrigued! What is Joe Klein, if not a liberal?

If the public does not hold the GOP accountable for their actions there will only be one source to blame and that’s the media! History has proven that if the public perceives the GOP as playing an obstructionist role there is a price for that — just ask former speaker Gingrich who was on the losing side of that scenario the last time they played this game. But I guess they’ve forgotten that and the media has forgotten that, because very few stories are devoted to the dirty tricks, parliamentary games and delay tactics that the GOP has used in their refusal to participate in the governance of this nation. The country is desperate for all hands on deck and the media has virtually given the GOP a pass, when they should be chronicling their behavior and showing how this unprecedented disruptive behavior is impacting the country’s ability to respond at this critical juncture. The public has no idea that the GOP’s behavior is this far beyond the pale. And frankly, if the media had publicized that GOP gamesmanship was behind thousands of Americans losing their unemployment benefits and perhaps going hungry or homeless while waiting for the GOP to stop screwing around and passing the extension, the GOP’s number would be even lower than they are already are. Shame on them for acting so childish, vindictive and selfish and shame on the media for not exposing them for behavior that is basically Un American, unpatriotic and unacceptable for most thinking adults.

FlownOver

Your memory doesn’t make it fact. Demos stone-walled at every turn and used scare tactics with seniors as they do every election. Social Security is going bust and with a deficit that is growing it won’t get better.

Tax increases, the mantra of the left, won’t begin to solve it either. Leaving out the nightmare known as HC reform, taxes for Medicare, Medicaid and SS will push tax rates north of 30% just for those entitlements. How will you feed the pigs like ACORN, NPR and the like?

Since you seem quite enamored with doing nothing, why not apply the same principle to HC, since there are more than a few studies that doing nothing will still cost less than this reform.

“because very few stories are devoted to the dirty tricks, parliamentary games and delay tactics that the GOP has used in their refusal to participate in the governance of this nation.”

Yes and the Demos have never done any of this. Truly Dee shut up already

Yes? See what I mean? The left wing of the Dem Party is just as nasty as the Right Wing of the Rep Party. I see all the posts of purging the Dem. Party, just like the Rep. Party.

freeinpa:

What is Joe Klein, if not a liberal?

Here is a link to my explanation of Joe Klein’s political philosophy: link to “Joe Klein is Not Your Friend”.
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If you’re rather not go out of your way to read one of my lengthy pieces, then let me just ask you this:
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Would a liberal write a column denouncing liberal Democrats’ opposition to Bush II’s Social Security privatization scheme like this one ( link to Joe Klein’s advice that, if it had been implemented, would have left SS as broke as the banks last fall pre-bailout )?

The Incredible Shrinking Democrats
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Bush’s private investment accounts, combined with a reduction in benefits or higher taxes, is one way for baby boomers to lighten the burden of our retirement upon our children. There are other ways, but none without pain. A far more profitable—and absolutely necessary—reform would be a market-oriented overhaul of Medicare, but Dems just say no to that too.
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The current Democrats resemble nothing so much as the Republicans during the 25 years after Roosevelt’s death—negative, defensive, intellectually feeble, a permanent minority.
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The Democrats’ current crudeness is a function of their desperation, and the imminent ratification of Howard Dean, the least charming presidential candidate in recent memory, as their party chairman only serves to punctuate the problem.
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All of which leaves Bush with a lot of room to lead. His speech last week was striking…It could easily have been delivered by a New Democrat…
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There is, then, a profitable discussion to be had between “ownership” Republicans and “third-way” Democrats about transforming the stagnant bureaucracies of the Industrial Age. Republicans refused to play during the Clinton presidency; the stunned and churlish Democrats are refusing now. It will be interesting to see whether Bush, at the height of his powers, actually tries to break the impasse.

No, Joe Klein is no liberal leftist. By his own account, he’s a Third Way Democrat…which means a centrist.

No freepa I won’t shut up. Your side might be desperately trying to turn my country into an authoritarian nightmare, but we are not there yet and you have no power to decide who speaks and who is heard. The constitution gives me a first amendment right to speak my freakin mind and I will do so even if it makes you uncomfortable. I just wish the press would stop being so easily manipulated and start exposing you people for the danger you are. We just went through eight years of the most incompetent lawless regime this country has ever seen and now the media is doing everything within its power to shill for you people again. One more round of Republicans rule and we might as well a.l move to Canada because they will have run this country into the ground.

“One more round of Republicans rule and we might as well a.l move to Canada because they will have run this country into the ground.”

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Which liberal fairy do I have to pray to, in order for you to move, Dee?

freeinpa

Mmm, no. As opposed to finding areas of common purpose, working to include those in legislation, and then voting for the legislation containing your ideas, or at the very least voting to permit a majority vote on the finished product.

SZ:

I appreciate your explanation. A centrist to me is one who feels strongly both ways and has little in the way a principles.

Having read many of JK’s posts hear and listening to him on Chris Tingles show I would question your definition of a Democratic centrist. Actually what it really brings into question is your definition of a left-wing extremist which by relative positioning would be off the charts nuts.

Not uncomfortable but nauseous. You have this delusion that these page long tirades make sense to anybody but you.

PS If you need a ride across the border I would be glad to chip in to buy you a bus ticket.

Rusty:

Barney Frank??

durangodave

“or at the very least voting to permit a majority vote on the finished product.”

Oh you mean like the Demos did with Bush’s judicial nominees?

See what I mean?
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No, I typed in ‘bullsh!t’ because that statement you made is dead wrong. If reading an expletive in a blog gives you the vapors, you need to toughen up.
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The left wing of the Dem Party is just as nasty..
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You come to this conclusion because a guy in a blog uses a common profanity to tell you you’re wrong? That’s even more…um…ah…bullcrap…
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Don’t worry; I’ll be sending someone to pick you up off the floor after you read that one.

Yeah, because God knows we will never cut spending. Too many moochers with their hands out.

That person is right, grapecrush. Unless you use the new Democrat definition of bi-partisianship which is: “you will come all the way over to my side and agree with me.”

That person is right…
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No, that person is not right.
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Right around 1:20.

“It’s nice to be accepted for who you are”
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2/3rocks- Don’t you know by now? It is only important to accept racial/ethnic diversity. Intolerance in regards to political ideology- now that’s a WAY different story!

One can remember a sizable part of the Democrats being vehemently opposed to John Roberts and Samuel Alito simply because they may vote against Roe v. Wade if given the opportunity.

freeinpa:

I appreciate your explanation. A centrist to me is one who feels strongly both ways and has little in the way a principles.

Thanks for reading.
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A centrist does have principles, but the primary principle they have is that compromise is always good, and that we’re crazy and radical for not compromising.
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You and I would have a fight over whether a bridge should be built, and they will work hard to screw both of us by insisting that half a bridge should be built. They honestly believe those things, which is why they don’t see that half a bridge is worse than no bridge at all.

You know allthings, I’ve noticed that the Democrats recently have crowed on and on about how we wouldn’t accept a moderate in New York (she wasn’t a conservative/moderate by the way…and was not selected by the people) and that the party will not accept even minor differences in ideology in the party.
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These are the same people who are completely up in arms about the blue dogs, and breathe fire at the mere mention of Joe Lieberman.

freeinpa

If I were you, I think I would want to steer clear of mention of judicial nominees, considering a comparison of the number of W’s judicial nominees approved by the Democrats and Obama’s judicial nominees being blocked by Republicans. It doesn’t help your “argument.”

Rusty: Don’t get down on your knees when you pray to a liberal fairy. It’s the oldest trick in the book and you’ll regret it.