Lieberman To Filibuster The Public Option.

If he can’t vote for cloture then there is 100% no reason to keep him in the caucus. Let him be the 41st Republican senator for 3 years, then let him bid adieu in 2012.

ahem. He says he will. Today. As I have been saying all along, let’s wait until there is a bill that is actually on the floor. Like Snowe. And others, who can do as many democrats did on Alito, vote for cloture and against the bill.

So far the Village has been completely wrong about outcomes, treating the tea parties as actual grass roots activity, while refraining from writing the real story — that “politically difficult” actually meant “bad for a insurance companies.”

All of this Sturm and Drang is to gut a bill that will be very difficult to vote against. it is backfiring, by creating an actual public debate, and, I said in the post below, the public option is the only thing that works. Forcing people to buy crappy insurance they can’t afford will certainly not work.

He really is appalling.If he doesn’t want to vote yes on the final bill, fine. But supporting the minority on cloture?
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Time to strip him of his committee and toss him out of the caucus.

Jay, agreed, but in this matter I fully expect Lieberman to go into full whine mode to try to insert himself back into the process. I’m sick of him.

Sounds like a good opportunity to strip Lieberman of his chairmanship if that’s what he really intends to do. The man doesn’t even pretend to be sympathetic to Democratic legislative initiatives anymore.

That’s possible, Jayack, but Lieberman doesn’t usually make idle threats. He did, after all, spend all of last year campaigning for the Republican nominee for President. And his home state has a lot of the insurance industry.

And to continue the discussion from the post below – I think people have gradually become tuned into the actual horror show that the health insurance industry is.
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And speaking of that – a friend (another one) reported to me yesterday that they’re entering their open enrollment period at their borg. She was told individual premiums for next year will increase by 30%!!!
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That’s on top of the 25% increase they had last year. Outrageous.

I agree with Jay.
True deposit hawks would be pulling for Medicare Plus Five which the CBO scored high.

I wonder which Sunday show will scoop him and give him the attention he wants.

Not only does he have a bunch of insurance companies headquartered in his state, I believe his wife is an insurance co. lobbyist.
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And still he’ll have the gall to wander out into public and whine about how he’s taking a “principled” stand. Feh.

We’re in open enrollment here, too, and it is giving everyone heart palpitations.

Could we see the ultimate completion of a Specter for Lieberman trade very soon? Dems will surely not stand by Joe when he goes beyond even Olympia Snowe in opposition to this particular reform bill.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

The problem as I see it is that the Senate is not the peoples house. With a six year term it is difficult to remove them from office.

Karen, is there any evidence that insurance companies are trying to raise rates in front of hrc? (other than me informally polling my borg-employed friends?)
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I think a lot of people (or at least some people) think this fight is about uninsured people. It’s pretty clear to me that those of us stuck with corporate provided health insurance and no option to go elsewhere can’t rely on insurance companies to refrain from raping us silly.

And he has little to lose at this point and is likely looking for a new gig for 2013. Hope his thirty pieces of silver cements his rep as the ugliest, most miserable @sshole on the planet.

I have heard the same thing from dozens of people. And these are people with good jobs. Premiums are rising at astounding rates. Which should make one wonder how the unemployed will fare in thsi environment.
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Sure, the government has lengthened the time for COBRA coverage, but the costs are astronomical, and if one is out of work, the question becomes, “How do I pay for my health care?”

The real question at this point is: What do Reid and the majority do if a cloture vote is taken and cloture is one to four votes short? The choice then is to 1) dilute or remove the public option and let the bill go through hoping that the bill coming out of conference won’t be blocked, or 2) pulling most if not all of the bill and using reconciliation where you need 51 votes not 60. The case for the latter would be much stronger if you got between 56 and 59 votes for the current bill, since it would be much harder to argue that you are shoving something down the Senate’s throat if you’ve gone that route first.

(There is a problem that has been talked about concerning the Senate parliamentarian’s views about what can be put in a reconciliation bill. But it’s been pointed out that, contrary to the usual way this is put, the parliamentarian does not give the final ‘ruling’ on the matter; that is up to Vice President Biden as President of the Senate, who could overrule the parliamentarian [they could even fire him, as the GOP did some years ago on a similar matter]).

My simple solution. Rename Ohio Voinovichland.
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Problem solved. Seriously though, he is leaving, is contrarian. He needs to be bribed. F Holy Joe and his enablers in the Village.
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For those with short memories, Holy Joe was William F. Buckley’s guy. Buckley hated liberal Republican Lowell Weicker, and became Lieberputz’s champion in knocking him off.
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Holy Joe is only about Holy Joe and it’s just like him to screw over the country on HCR just to make it all about him.
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Whatever Voinovich wants, he should get. Cut Lieberman out of the equation, and strip him of his chairmanship.
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Astounding is the right word. They were expecting family premiums to rise sharply – the 30% jump on individual premiums on top of LAST year’s 25% jump blindsided everyone there.

KT- Why not a story about this and maybe, as a liberal reporter, you could possibly explain this.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28764.html

Best article on Politico in a while

That Joe is so principled.

Of course his game in the past was to vote to END a fillibuster and when the die was cast vote “the right way” like he did with Alito.

He knows he isn’t coming back to the Senate and he HATES the left so he has the freedom to stick it to his ex-party whenever the whim hits.

Fox. Duh.

There is:
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/business/smallbusiness/25health.html
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But big companies like mine (AKA The Death Star) are self insured.

Ned Lamont couldn’t be reached for comment.

People, people, don’t worry this isn’t about the public option, this isn’t even about health care reform. And KT if you were being honest, you know with that I’ve been in this town a long time and seen how it works mode, you would be telling your faithful followers that Lieberman just wants something from the leadership and he is trying to use his vote as a means of getting something he wouldn’t otherwise. It’s called horse trading, so stop with that line about how Lieberman doesn’t usually make idle threats — because he tells outright lies when it suits him as we saw last year.

Silly Jay, you overlooked one important thing.
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Lieberman only goes back on promises if the promises would have been good for Democrats.

I’m not a media critic. You may consult other Swampland commenters to discover how annoying they find that to be. Happy to discuss my own work.

Kudos to Joe Liberman!!! He should run for President himself next go round. Split both the Democrats and Republicans in 1/2!!

With these kinds of experiences, you’d think that the explicit threat from insurance companies that ‘the public options will force our hands and make us raise premiums!’ would ring hollow, since they’re already repeatedly raising them at ridiculous rates.

How much you want to bet he is trying to stymie the president’s agenda in Israel. This is all about the President’s stand on illegal settlements. Obama won’t be bullied by the radical Jewish lobby and so now Lieberman has taken it upon himself to try to black mail the president. If the media was worth a cup of warm spit they might try to investigate who he has been talking to and if there is any evidence that Lieberman has he been colluding with foreign agents to alter American policy. Frankly, I think holding up health care reform for the citizens of this country and more importantly Connecticut who support health care reform and want no part of the Republican agenda ought to be grounds for a recall. How dare he put Israeli settlers before Americans. But if there is a wire tap, a paper or twitter trail that he is trying to do this he ought to be forced to work on his tan from jail.

It would be a short article for KT. First if it was BUsh the left would be apoplectic while the First Tourist merely gets a pass.

I’m not sure if this is comforting or not–

“Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid addressed a development, first reported by TPMDC, that Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) will filibuster a health care bill if it includes a public option.

“Joe Lieberman is the least of Harry Reid’s Problem,” Reid told reporters at his weekly press conference. ”

(Hey cool-I can cut and paste TPM without any tacky site tags!)

Lieberman at work

I’d tell him this: Recant now, before any of the other sellout Democratic stooges jump on your carrion wagon, or your chairmanship is gone. Don’t wait for the actual vote; back him down now. If he won’t reverse himself it’s pretty well over anyway, unless this can be done through reconciliation – in which case, who needs this little weasel?

Actually Dee he is trying to find out what the President’s agenda in Israeli is and Afghanistan, Iraq , Iran, Russia and …………

Joe Lieberman just proved again that he’s a paragon of centrist virtue.
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He claims that he will vote against party, against liberal ideology, and against national and state popular will. That’s the centrist definition of “non-ideological” “pragmatism” –even though, in this case, he will be obstructing “getting things done”, which is the usual centrist rationale for demanding that the first priority of legislation be the highest degree of compromise.
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By (at this point claiming that he is) standing against his (non-corporate) constituents, Lieberman demonstrates to the Village that he is a tough, courageous, principled individual…according to his fellow members of the Senate New Democrat Coalition (Joe was one of the founders). He’s waving the flag to his DLC comrades, and trumpeting:

“Join me! Don’t be afraid to filibuster! Let’s form a gang of something with Lindsey Graham, Olympia Snowe & John McCain! Ben (Nelson)? Mary (Landrieu)? Blanche (Lincoln)? Evan (Bayh)? Are you with me again? We appear weak to Beltway eyes the longer we let the liberals have their way! Don’t you know what that means? Let’s go!“

If you think for a minute about what this guy and the Third Way people actually believe, it makes perfect sense.
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Centrism the political philosophy can’t distinguish any difference in meaning between the act of Connecticut Lieberman voting against a bill containing a Public Option, and Tennessee Albert Gore Sr. voting for the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
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Both of those ballots cast would be courageous, principled stands that defied partisan objective, left-or-right ideological principle and what ordinary people at the grass roots wished from their government, at least according to that deeply flawed ideology.
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If Hell were to freeze over, and the Democratic Party were somehow to be controlled by real liberals again, Joe Lieberaman would most likely not join the radical, movement conservative-dominated Republican Party.
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It would be time for a new centrist-based political party, buoyed by the money of billionaires and corporate interests, and devoted to “healing the partisan divide” and “overcoming polarization” and “coming together as Americans to solve our nation’s problems”.
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In the meantime, though, these people still out-power real liberals in the Democratic Party, and so Joe Lieberman will probably get some form of the “compromise” that this puppet show was really designed to achieve:
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“the trigger“.

Ah, Joe Lieberman. Aren’t we all glad that the leadership stuck by him after he stabbed them in the eye during ’08.

So your problem with Joe is What? That he is not a left wing nut job or that he has principles?

Meanwhile, for every day that the Liebermans of the Senate hold things up, approximately 45 people without health insurance die, sacrified to the American gods of corporate profitability and massive political ego.

Very well put.

the trigger
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Stuart, that makes sense. After the PO was prematurely declared dead, the debate has now shifted to opt-out vs trigger.
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But obviously the trigger will be carefully designed never to go into effect. On the other hand, I don’t believe states would actually opt out, when push comes to shove — just as states did not turn down stim money.
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So “opt-out vs trigger” really means PO vs no PO.

“As Karen Tumulty put it, ‘In the Democrats’ wilderness years, Waxman fashioned himself as his party’s chief inquisitor. Working with one of the most highly regarded staffs on Capitol Hill, he has spent the past eight years churning out some 2,000 headline-grabbing reports, blasting the Bush Administration and the Republican Congress on everything from faulty prewar intelligence and flaws in missile defense to the flu-vaccine shortage and arsenic in drinking water.’”

Well, now we have another flu vaccine shortage, and the Administration has fallen way short of what it promised. First, will KT ask Waxman where’s his outrage? Second, why is Obama getting a pass here?

Nice try but why don’t you try comparing items in the same food group for a change:
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A four-hour stop in New Orleans, on his way to a $3 million fundraiser. Is that really the same as a fly over on your way to a birthday bash when 100′s of thousands of people are trapped and dying? No not so much!
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Snubbing the Dali Lama. — big whup and that means what exactly, that the meeting was inconvenient at a time when we were dealing with china and they are increasingly nervous. Especially since Bush got us so deeply in debt to China. I don’t suppose you had a problem with him getting us so deeply in debt to China or the hoops Bush made Tawaiin jump through in his attempt to placate china while he was indebting us.
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Signing off on a secret deal with drug makers. Making a deal with corporations so that the rich would get richer or making a deal with a corporation so that seniors paid less for their medication? Yeah that’s really the same thing.
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Freezing out a TV network. — when its fox the propaganda spewing entertainment entity that lies whenever it calls itself a news network? Yeah why not and like that’s really the same as the George Bush white house never giving a single interview to the paper of record for his entire 8 years in office — just ask the NY Times how they felt about that?
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Doing more fundraisers than the last president. More golf, too. — Don’t forget, that bush deliberately banned his playing golf to make sure he never got caught in one of those unfortunate pictures like his daddy. But of course he lied and played golf secretly anyway so its a moot point. but even if he didn’t play golf, his fake cowboy antics in Crawford was enough he spent more time on vacation than any other president before him.
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I’d take President Barack Obama opver Bush on any of those things.

Lieberman:

[the public option] still creates a whole new government entitlement program for which taxpayers will be on the line.”

CNN:

CBO finds Dem bill with public option reduces deficit

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/10/21/health.care.cbo/index.html

Fine. Make Traitor Joe stand there and read until he faints, then hold the vote.

Being principled enough to go against party, supporters, and common sense is the very epitome of strong, non-partisan, undiluted moral fiber! I mean, who would be brave enough to claim to do what he could to help the caucus and then vote the exact opposite way, time and time again? That’s pure courage, I tell you!

Are you referring to the Harvard Study that Biden refers to here:
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-Vice-President-to-the-national-association-of-insurance-commissioners
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KT, how reliable is that 45K per year figure? There are a lot of studies that say a lot of things. If it’s bogus or not well-supported, how is it any different from Sarah’s death panels?

The Trigger ain’t happening.
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In the Senate on the Democratic side you lose Brown, Rockefeller, Feingold, and likely more. And all but one or two republicans will vote against any HCR trigger or not.
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Plus the House won’t go along with it.
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“Snubbing the Dali Lama. — big whup and that means what exactly, that the meeting was inconvenient at a time when we were dealing with china and they are increasingly nervous.”
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Well, there you have it. Principles.
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Dee, you should shut up. I doubt many of your fellow travelers appreciate such bluntness.

Aside from the Traitor Joe comment, I agree completely. Senate leaders back down at the mere hint of a filibuster anymore. Let Joe and the rest of the Rs follow through a filibuster. If Reid had a spine ( I know he doesn’t, though) they would outlast the filibuster.

Paul-NNTO: The point isn’t to actually get a trigger.
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The point is to poison the well to where nothing will actually pass

Yawn.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200910270022

I agree kryptik1 that’s why I disagreed with SZ’s speculation.
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Joe needs to be worked around, not negotiated with, which may be why Reid said what he said (#20)

And that right there folks is why Leiberman doesn’t matter.

Lieberman’s wife is a big-health lobbyist.
Is “home state” some sort of euphemism for the Lieberman family-style corruption?

destor and ohio: i am also on record here in swampland for making them really filibuster.
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/02/09/revisiting-the-filibuster/
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2007/12/13/the_filibuster_vs_the_pseudofi_1/
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http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2007/07/17/oh_for_heavens_sake/

Let’s not replace Snowe with Lieberman. He was never a reliable vote in the best of circumstances. If Harry Reid thinks Lieberman is the least of his problems I’d like some to help with one or more interpretations of that remark.

Meanwhile this is far from over. And we need to look at the way the WH is playing its game. All the nonsense the Chuck Todds of this word spout on tv is based on their “sources” in the WH. It is time for Pres Obama to lead: this hands in the pocket strategy thus far has been a disaster.

Principles? The pre-Lamont challenge Lieberman would have NEVER considered filibustering a moderate healthcare reform bill like the ones that are working through Congress right now. Nobody would have ever considered him an at-risk vote. What Joe is doing right now isn’t sticking to his principles…his long held principles would have made him a strong “yea” for whatever bill emerges in the Senate. What he’s doing is having a kindergarten child hissy fit…because the Dems wouldn’t abandon the guy who won the Democratic primary and support him instead. The guy spent all of last year implying that Obama was a socialist who wanted to let terrorists destroy America. He gets welcomed back into the caucus with open arms and he’s even allowed to keep his committee chair, even though many inthe caucus wanted to give him the boot. And the generosity of the Dem leadership is repaid with this?
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Principles? The man has none.
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That said, this is a bluff…or a childish attempt to get attention and/or something he wants. If his price is low, give it to him knowing that he’ll be gone after 2012. You can even let him stand next to Obama as he signs the bill into law. If it’s too high, work on Snowe and maybe Voinovich and tell Joe to go blow.

Dee:#

“I’d take President Barack Obama opver Bush on any of those things.”

This statement was as expected and you could have saved us all the torture of reading your tangled reasoning if that was all you wrote.

You guys have hit one of my pet peeves, which prompted me to do an update.

ok, this is a really really cheap shot, but if Lieberman and a Dem join in the filibuster of the public option, isn’t the filibuster bipartisan by Obama’s one GOP vote equals bipartisanship standard.
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Just askin’.

Yes Karen could ask Waxman where are the supeonas for ACORN, Fannie, Freddie, various parts of the stimulus bill, the unvetted czars, Geitner, Rangel etc.

Karen has to give Obama a pass less she be accused a racist or she just can’t get on the golf course to ask him.

ogliberal

” childish attempt to get attention and/or something he wants.”

Hmmm not unlike the liberals here trying to pull the “health care reform” farce on the American public.

Well, now we have another flu vaccine shortage, and the Administration has fallen way short of what it promised…why is Obama getting a pass here?

Gee, spob, maybe there is nothing that the Administration can do about it. From the right-wing’s go-to news source:

Manufacturers around the world disclosed in July that they were having serious problems brewing shots. The chief ingredient is grown in eggs, and companies were getting far fewer doses per egg than they usually do for regular winter flu vaccine.

More fake outrage. Yes, having a H1N1 vaccine shortage sucks – and keep in mind that I’ve had a family member come down with it – but I can’t blame Obama for not being able to wave a wand and magically increase supplier production.

It is an interesting question. Obama promised X with respect to the flu vaccine, and has delivered less than X. Bush took heat for that, and KT reported on that. Why isn’t Obama?
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If that 45K per year figure Grayson spouted were accurate, I would suspect that we’d see a lot more of it tossed around. It’s not. So could it be that Grayson is as bad as Sarah Palin’s death panels? And if that’s the case, why is the Obama Administration calling Grayson a great congressman?

“Aside from the Traitor Joe comment, I agree completely.”

A while back, before the Bush & Co proved beyond a shadow of a doubt what they’re about, the label “traitor” might have been hyperbole. But the problems currently afflicting the country are so severe and the disconnect between ruling elites and the rest of the public so vast, that those who back the corporate interests that are responsible for those problems instead of the wider public interests are indeed traitors to the country. If we continue to ignore their betrayal, they may very well succeed in destroying it, as they very nearly did last year.
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Corporations who manipulate the political process for profit over the national interest top the list, quickly followed by “conservative” professional liars in politics (including so-called Democratic “moderates” and “centrists”) and the right-wing media, followed by “centrist” gasbags in the corporate press. Traitors to a man. When contemplating the national interest, there’s no other way to describe them.
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We need to abandon this empty civility trap and call them out for what they are (and to borrow a heavily abused phrase, take back our country) before they kill us all:

The nation’s political leaders and their corporate puppet masters have fouled this nation up to a fare-thee-well. We will not be pulled from the morass without a big effort from an active citizenry, and that means a citizenry fired with a sense of mission and the belief that their actions, in concert with others, can make a profound difference.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/opinion/27herbert.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

Yep no Republicans no moderates just left loons. Harry’s got bigger problems

KT – Isn’t it pretty much impossible these days to force a Mr. Smith-style filibuster? Don’t they need an unanimous consent agreement just to proceed to a cloture vote – whether it’s a vote to cut off debate on whether or not the bill should be debated or a vote to move the bill to the floor for a vote? I’m not claiming to know the answer…I’m just not certain.

you’re right Grape Crush, now, will you be asking Waxman to apologize to Bush?

LMAO You will burn in hell.

Is it February 29th? I’m about to agree with Spob. Yup, Lieberman + Republicans = bipartisan filibuster, by Obama’s own definition.

That’s why reconciliation is the only way to go.

of course, grape, that doesn’t excuse the Obama Administration from promising that the swine flu vaccination would be available in much greater numbers.
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Guys, you pilloried Bush for the flu vaccine–you cannot change the standard now.

ogliberal: lieberman says he won’t vote against the Motion to Proceed, just against cloture. i’m pretty sure that is also the case with Lincoln, Landrieu and Nelson as well. So, yes, if Reid wants to make them filibuster, he can do it.
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Man up, you fragile hothouse flowers of the United States Senate!!!!!!!

KT, your thoughts on that? I see that I’ve got one convert.

Shouldn’t that be “person up”, we wouldn’t want to offend the Maine Sens or Kay Bailey.

Yeah, trying to enact healthcare reform, something Dems have been trying to do since Truman, is a childish act.
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I get it…you’re a conservative, you don’t like it. I don’t expect you to like it. But your party is in the minority now…and was put there by the voters of this country. Dems are now trying to do what they’ve been trying to do for 50 years. Most truly believe that this is the best thing for our nation. Many conservatives think that it isn’t. But Joe Lieberman, as I noted above, was a guy who would never have opposed a bill as non-radical as what is being proposed before he got all upset because he lost – fair and square – the Dem primary in 2006.
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You can disagree with what the Dems are trying to do. But to claim that Lieberman is threatening to filibuster because of “principles” is just ridiculous. He’s a spoiled little child, angry that he didn’t get everything he wanted, even though he was re-elected, was allowed to stay in the Dem caucus, and was returned to his committee chair after bad mouthing for months the Dem candidate for president and actively campaigning for this GOP opponent.

Are you referring to the Harvard Study that Biden refers to here…
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No, I’m referring to the article I linked to in my comment.
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There are a lot of studies that say a lot of things.
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So, spob, what’s the acceptable threshold of deaths due to a lack of insurance? 40 people per day? 20? 10? 2?
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If it’s bogus or not well-supported, how is it any different from Sarah’s death panels?
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[Disinformation]…#’s 17 and 19.

Well, then, the Sergeant-at-Arms should start stocking up on phone books from across the country. Joe can kick it all off by reading out all the numbers from the 203 area code.

“So, spob, what’s the acceptable threshold of deaths due to a lack of insurance? 40 people per day? 20? 10? 2?”
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When you can prove that your solution will save them and not result in other lives lost, then talk to me.
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That’s got to be the silliest retort ever.

Re your update: Yes!!! Make them actually filibuster!! I want to see cots and telephone books and the whole nine yards.
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Let’s see those *sshats actually stand up in public and tell the american people that they stand with the insurance companies. I dare them.
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Where can we enlist in your campaign?

i’ve started a #makeemfilibuster hashtag on twitter.

ogliberal

Speaking of spoiled little children, I can almost hear you stamping your feet.

Actually if the Demos were not so power struck Nixon actually proposed the first National Health Plan. But Hillary wanted him crucified and without legal representation. Gotta love liberals for protecting ones rights. And if the Demos have been trying for 50 years especially when, just like now, they held the presidency, and both houses of Congress. How PATHETIC!

And voters put in a President that essentially was a fraud. Nothing he has campaigned on is he doing. ALl the new Congressman and Senators ran with conservative values. Why? They could not get elected as liberals. So everytime a liberal shows their stripes the public runs. The ideas stink! That is why all liberal plans run thousands of pages, cloaked in darkness and voted on in 2 days with no one seeing them. Arrogance at its peak.

“So, spob, what’s the acceptable threshold of deaths due to a lack of insurance? 40 people per day? 20? 10? 2?”

spob what do you say equal to the amount of our soldiers dying in the battle against terrorists while the First Tourist works on his putts or his jump shot?

It’s a matter of whom pays for it. Making everyone pay for the healthcare of those too damn lazy to take care of themselves along with those that have genuinely fallen on hard times is the problem to me. The government drones will not be able to tell the difference and you and I will go on paying for the lazy along with those truly in need. What a deal!! I can now pay for my healthcare and the healthcare of someone else that may or may not truly be in need of it. Where do I sign up for this?! The government is NOT flexible. There will be layers and layers of beauracracy to make sure the rigid rules are followed. Rules that rarely turn out to be in the best interest of whatever industry the government feels the need to thrust itself into. Layers and layers that will cost money not even thought of now. Money that will render any small inefficiencies found moot. 2 last thoughts. The government almost ALWAYS spends vastly more on things than is projected. There are very, very few exceptions to this rule and healthcare will NOT be one. Lastly, once the government has gotten involved in anything, it is almost impossible to get it out. So, when it becomes apparent what a failure this plan will turn out to be (the main reason practically any results will be felt AFTER Obama’s chance for re-election) the only solution the dumb masses will try to enact will involve more government involvement and more money. What a great plan.

What a f*cking liar:
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Chris Dodd for Connecticut
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Dear Stuart,
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Have you heard the great news? Yesterday, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced that he is sending a health care reform bill to the full Senate with a robust public option.
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This is a huge victory for us. It came after days of negotiations, where I joined Senator Reid, Senator Max Baucus, and others. Every day I walked into those negotiations, I knew that I wasn’t speaking for myself alone. I was speaking for you and for everyone who shares our belief that real reform of our health care system must include an effective public option that keeps insurance companies honest.
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Your support, including the powerful personal stories many of you have shared with me, made it possible for me to move these negotiations in a positive direction. You had a direct hand in the victory that put the public option in this bill, and you should be very proud.
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I am extremely optimistic that a health care reform bill with a public option will make it to President Obama’s desk for his signature. But make no mistake — this fight is not over yet.
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Our opponents — including corporate health care interests and virtually all of the Republicans in Congress — will do everything they can to stand in the way of health care reform. If they are successful, we won’t have a public option in the bill. They’d prefer it if we didn’t have any reform at all!
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I will be calling on you again in this fight. I will need your support, just as I did at that negotiating table. And with your help, I know we will succeed in passing reform that ensures every American has quality, affordable health care.
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Congratulations on this great victory, and thank you for everything.
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Sincerely,
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Chris

Seriously, do we have to litigate over the meaning of “robust” with these people?
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Senate Democrats are such liars.

After tee-heeing about the filibuster this from TPM about gaming out Joe’s move is worth a glance.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/10/gaming_out_joes_threat.php#more?ref=fpblg

The report grape_crush refers to was published in the American Journal of public Health and came from the Harvard School of Public Health. Of course since MSM does not promote it to the degree you feel it should, the study must be invalid. Glenn Beck/Sarah Palin thought process.
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Bush argued that his administration delayed the release of flu vaccine because of a flaw in an English company’s process. In truth, it was the British that detected the flaw. GW’s administration was surprised when the British company told them that the vaccine was not going to be shipped secondary to the action taken by the British. the Bush FDA did not begin an investigation until 5 days later.
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From the 3rd Bush-Kerry debate
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BUSH: We relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the US, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn’t allow contaminated medicine into our country.
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FACT CHECK: It’s not true, as Bush claimed, that “we took the right action” in blocking “contaminated” influenza vaccine from entering the US. Actually, it was the British and not the US that blocked shipment. The British Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, according to an Oct. 6 news release, suspended the license of Chiron Corp., the manufacturer of approximately 50% of the US supply. In fact, the Bush administration seems to have been caught by surprise when Chiron Corp. notified the US Center for Disease Control Oct. 5 that the company wouldn’t be shipping the vaccine due to the British action. The US Food & Drug Administration didn’t begin an investigation until five days later, according to an FDA news release .
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http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/Bush_Kerry_3_Health_Care.htm

Maybe the Democrats shouldn’t have primaried him over a single issue? Just sayin’.

Hmm well maybe the Democrats shouldn’t have primaried him over a single issue.

So you’re saying that Joe is acting out of revenge?
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Also I know you are young(ish) so I’m not sure how closely you paid attention to the Democratic primary but Google back to that time and read that while his Iraq support was a large part of the move against him it was far from the only reason.
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Start with “short bus ride”

That’s pretty much what he has been saying about the Motion to Proceed since last week. I’ve been trying to make clear in my stories and blog posts that this is an entirely different vote from cloture.

‘Corporations who manipulate the political process for profit over the national interest top the list, quickly followed by “conservative” professional liars in politics (including so-called Democratic “moderates” and “centrists”) and the right-wing media, followed by “centrist” gasbags in the corporate press. Traitors to a man.’
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There was once a time, not that long ago, when being a war profiteer was to be considered a traitor. When those that profited from the deaths of others (by cheating people out of promised health care benefits, for example) were unacceptable to civilized society. Today, these same people are often looked up to as savvy entrepreneurs. Times have changed.

http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/10/27/old-medias-malfunctioning-mobius-loop/

spob- I wouldn’t worry about Hutchison, she’s about to come back to Texas to smash Rick Perry

In my book, the times started changing right around when the gasbags in The Village corporatist media started choosing sides (first against the Clintons), replaced informing the public of important truth with he-said-she-said false equivalency and substituted fake civility for basic moral decency. Coincidence?

slo:

Yawn.

http://mediamatters.org/research/200910270022

Yawn is a medical condition caused by the lack of oxygen to the brain. A symptom of that is reading Media Matters. The WaPo “reported” that Rove attended meetings. No sources just reported. Rove stated last week he did not attend and I have yet to hear that contradicted.

Joe’s the guy we love to hate. Threathen to strip him of his chairmanship if he doesn’t recant. I’m sick of playing softball with the senator from Israel. He votes with the democrats of many of the liberal social issues so I seriously doubt if he switched parties that the republicans would give him any plum positions if he joined them. He’d be a heretic in their party. Call his bluff and if he follows through, show him the door.

Kos made a similar statement weeks ago. Since Dems have 60 votes, any filibuster is by definition one done by Dems. Congratulations, you and Kos think the same.
That said. I’m trying to figure out why this is a gotcha like you are making it out to be. Real Democrats have groused against Lieberman and his Lieberdems for a long time. We even beat Lieberman in 2006, at least until all his Senate buddies went to bat for him, and he started lying to his constituents and making claims like he was for universal health care and ending the Iraq War.

That’s got to be the silliest retort ever.
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Hardly.
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See, I have actually cited numbers from reputable sources. You haven’t done anything but throw chaff in an attempt to avoid answering the question.
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When you can prove that your solution will save them and not result in other lives lost, then talk to me.
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You have that the wrong way around, spob. It’s up to you to disprove the American Journal of Public Health, The American Cancer Society, and the Institute of Medicine. I’m just passing the numbers along.
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Put up or shut up, spob…or is all you can do is provide misdirection?

Does anyone know if Lieberman has ever voted for cloture on a bill and then voted against it?
If he has, perhaps he can be asked why he isn’t doing the same thing here, if that is how he expressed his displeasure in the past.

I don’t recall Joe ever doing that. It’s possible he did though. I’d be thrilled to see him leave the party. I still say force his hand and kick him out if he filibusters. Joe as the Wandering Jew. It has a nice ring to it.

“But it always seemed absurd to me to trust good old Lieb since he’s become a bitter, angry, resentful, creepy, arch conservative, vengeful old f@ck”

While this spot-on description by Digby is deeply satisfying, Jane Hamsher is correct: let’s not get ahead of ourselves. And am the only one who’d like to see Obama awake from his self-induced coma and, like, venture a f’ing opinion!?

“am I”

Mas cafe por favor

Alito’s confirmation. I believe there are other examples

I don’t say this often, but Amen.

I trust everything is going well papa?

Lieberman found the bankruptcy bill “seriously flawed” but voted for cloture before voting against the bill.

Pnnto: thanks.

Lieberman only cares about money when it comes to helping poor Americans. If you plan to drop bombs on Muslims, he will write you a blank check. He is truly a disgusting human being.

So he has to answer, is the health care bill, which can be reopened by the Senate at any point in the future, more important than a Supreme Court Justice like Alito that is going to be there without repercussion for 30 or so years?

I’d just like to say, agree with my speculation or not, I appreciate you folks having taken the time to read through my commentary.
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Thank you.

the idiot who yelled “you lie” to Obama has proved once again that you can get a lot of attention by being disruptive. Then the two jokers in FLA (one from each party) did their little shows Now Joe L wants his attention. What a country we live in where the jokers get all the attention and nothing gets done.

Hopefully Harry Reid has more up his sleeve. Maybe Rahm and Obama are right – there’s just not the votes for a PO so lets take what we can get and try to tack on some more at a later date.

Lawmaking is indeed a dirty business by a bought and paid for Congress. I’d love to believe I could find one totally honest person serving in either house of Congress from either party. After living almost 73 years and following politics closely most of that time, I find little hope for honest representation.

Joe Lieberman is testament to the argument that there may be benefits in having death panels. Hell, if twenty million Americans, including some quite famous ones too, believe they exist, then where is the downside?

Next time Rush’s “medications” run out, or the next STD infection is impossible to hide, then maybe questions should be raised regarding the cost vs. benefit of him continuing to breathe and talk.

Joe Lieberman is a further case in point. His Alzheimers has already destroyed his ability to remember which Party to support in the Senate. Maybe next time he sneezes, “Mad dog” McCain should be despatched to deliver the final blow.

Wow! Does that mean you think Dick Cheney is a traitor?

Lieberman is just a symptom, this is a failure of the whole Democratic Party, from the President on down. There isn’t a leader among them.

There has to be a better way, this is not government by the people, for the people, of the people.

Liebermann has become as despicable a character as Cheney. Screw him. Time to take away all his committee chairs and favorite assignments. He was, after all, allowed to caucus with the Dems so he would play nice. We can not play nice too.

Lieberman knew he could roll Obama and the Dems, when they did nothing after he campaigned for the opposition. In fact, they rewarded him for his behavior. Until they show some backbone and demonstrate there are consequences for bad behavior, he will keep on doing it.

Now that’s scary. I was just thinking the same thing. I suggest we deprive him of fiber until his breath starts to smell really bad too.

Great news. Lieberman is my man. He’s right. we don’t need another bad government health plan like the VA.
If those crazy senators and congressmen want to fix health care, fix the VA system. These men and women deserve 1st rate health care and are not getting it. Here in Phoenix, one of the major departments at the VA is closed until the first of the year. WHY? Because they are out of money.
If the public option is passed, in my opinion, everyone will be on it in 5-7 years. Why, because employers can unload there health care cost on the governent for a lower cost or just paid the fines.

I would vote for lieberman if he ran for president. This whole health care debate is not about health care at all. These senators and congressmen or women could care less about my and your health. It;s all about control. They want control of 1/7 of the GNP and control of you and me. Vote for me- I got health insurance for you.