UPDATE: Nonsense

Haha. Bloggers.

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/going-viral/

Why spoil their fun by citing reality?

Hey – the #1 “news” channel doesn’t need to cover Congress. It does a pretty good job of smearing all by its lonesome.

Satire– Health care reform where we offer to cover 45 million for more people for less money and reducing the deficit while providing the same level of services.

I get satire now. No wait that’s insanity. Sorry my bad.

You know, this might strengthen Palin’s legal case if she sues for an injunction against the authors of Going Rouge for trade dress and deceptive sales violations:

“The plaintiff’s target demographic is comprised of gullible fools (hereinafter “Morans”) who are incapable of detecting satire, parody, or sarcasm, much less intentional typos. Any Moran who walks into a bookstore looking for Palin’s book has a 50% chance of walking out with the wrong copy. And of the Morans who buy the wrong book, our expert has opined that fully 85% will be incapable of independently figuring out the mistake.”

Sorry freeinpa. Independent report just showed that healthcare industry wastes up to $800 billion per year, precisely as White House said. See Reuters home page for story. Direct link: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE59P0L320091026

Not $800 million. $800 billion. So you’d better believe we can do more with less.

There’s a lot of red meat in this study, for all sides. The thing I found most interesting is that a third of that waste is doctors covering their backside so as not to get sued for malpractice. Many on the left have said that tort reform will, at best, account for 2-3% savings. The real numbers could be massively higher. Good health care reform requires seriously reining in the insurance industries, but it also requires serious malpractice reform so doctors don’t order batteries of unneeded tests just to keep the ambulance-chasing lawyers away.

Satire is in the eye of the beholder apparently.
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If only these same people including some in the mainstream media who are so concerned about a free press and independent press that they now see a boogeyman under every tree were even half this concerned when Rep Pete King was going on Fox News calling for the criminal prosecution of the New York Times during the Bush administration.
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I don’t seem to remember the mainstream press leaping to the New York Times defense and expressing outrage at the congresman’s actions at the time. I don’t remember push back or outrage coming from Fox, Joe Klein, Jake Tapper or pretty much anyone else in the mainstream media at the time.
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Now its as if no one in the mainstream media even recalls this ever happening or are even aware of the very apparent contridiction here. It wasn’t that long ago that this happen and it was a much more egreious assualt on the free press.

No, insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result each time. The Republican health care plan — i.e. continue with the same failed health care system indefinitely — has been determined, by the American people, to be insane.
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For all the flaws of the currently proposed legislation, when there is a crisis, “doing something” will beat “doing nothing” every time.
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The only remaining question is whether the GOP will continue to exhibit institutional insanity by using the same-old, failed political tactics — opposing everything the Democrats support and being the Party of No — and expecting a different result at election time.

Here is the fact check of the day on health insurers by AP not exactly Fox News.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_FACT_CHECK_HEALTH_INSURANCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-10-25-14-34-15

So all liberals and the President are full-time unabashed LIARS.

Still doesn’t negate fact of fraud in Medicare as shown on 60 Minutes last night (another right wing conspirator) or the IRS director recently noting the fraud in the First time buyers credit including IRS workers.

Maybe that’s Obama’s devious plan create enough give-away program and that will solve unemployment. The Government could not efficiently run a water stand in the desert.

Maybe instead of a no feeding Thursday you could have a liberal truth Thursday. But that would probably leave blank screens for years.

Yes I can see how the reptilian NYT putting on page 1 securities issues can be confused with the current WH enemies list. Even the dimwitted liberal MSM knew better than defend the indefensible. But then again we have a left-wing nut Senator sitting as the head if the judicial committee who was kicked off another committee for leaking security issues, in some circles it might be considered treason. (Where is Joe K when you need him)

Irony and satire all in one.

square1

Gee I thought Republicans didn’t have a HC plan. I am shocked that liberal politiciansd and MSM would lie. (Hahhahah) I could get that out with a straight face.

And here is the liberals plan for (fill in your pet project) TAX AND SPEND.

R.I.P. USA 1776-2009

The thing I found most interesting is that a third of that waste is doctors covering their backside so as not to get sued for malpractice.
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The thing that I found most interesting is that you just made that up.

What’s the point of that AP article? That the bloated healthcare industry still makes a sizeable profit in a heavy economic downturn? That when millions of people lose their jobs & their healthcare, the industry can still be profitable? That more money is going into railroads than airlines at the moment (shock!)?

sacoharry,

Are all of those extra tests to protect the doctors against lawsuits or to make additional money? Frankly, I don’t buy the line doctors do all these extra tests just to protect themselves from lawsuits. They all have malpractice insurance, and extra tests/medical care exposes them to making more mistakes. One thing though, extra tests means more money to pay for bureaucracy.

How do you reduce malpractice claims? Most think caps on awards will work, but Texas and Kansas have enacted caps and it has not reduced malpractice premiums.

The way to reduce malpractice claims concerns what happens when a doctor makes a serious medical mistake. The way things operate now, the hospital and the hospital’s lawyer tells the doctor not to talk to the patient and the hospital goes into denial mode. It does not work . . . . . .

The University of Michigan instituted a new program in 2002. In their program, the doctor talks to the patient, admits the mistake and the doctor, patient and hospital work together to see where the doctor went wrong and work to make sure the mistake does not happen again. Under this program, the University of Michigan has been able to reduce its reserves set aside for malpractice claims from $700 million to just $13 million per year Often all it took was the doctor to say, “I made a mistake and I am sorry” to just listening to the patient to prevent a malpractice lawsuit.

This change did not require caps on awards, or even a change in the laws. All that it required was a change of attitude from the doctor and the hospital.

From the Reuters article, square1:

* Unnecessary care such as the overuse of antibiotics and lab tests to protect against malpractice exposure makes up 37 percent of healthcare waste or $200 to $300 billion a year.

Taking a second to read an article rather than typing a knee-jerk ad hominem attack will make your future opinioins of more value.

freeinpa,
Insurance company profits are not the problem. Drug company profits are much more of a problem as are other issues such as tort reform.

I have good insurance through my job. The premiums just keep going up every year at an unsustainable rate. If nothing is done, we are all screwed.

freeinpa:
Why “free” if you can charge it? Are you a socialist – in a sleeper cell, maybe?

freeinpa – since you like the word so much that it appears in just about every posting you make, and being afraid that one day you may tire and forget to include it in your twaddle, we hereby move to avert the risk by incorporating it in your ID: We christen thee “liberal-freeinpa” or better still, “liberalinpa”. Amen

Since most of the tests are done by hospital labs and outside labs the doctors don’t receive any payment for running the additional tests.

And I can see why doctors order up more tests so the “bureaucracy” can make more money.

Or they have medical malpractice insurance which never see premium increases or have policies canceled.

Keep living the delusion

Serious question: Are rightwingers just dumb or poorly educated, or are they mentally ill?

cfukara:

Sucks when you have no argument but name calling.

But then that is page one of the dumb ass handbook.(since the word liberal seems to offend you)

See 8.3 and thank you for proving my point again and again

* Unnecessary care such as the overuse of antibiotics and lab tests to protect against malpractice exposure makes up 37 percent of healthcare waste or $200 to $300 billion a year.
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Yes, you took the total for “unnecessary care” and ascribed 100% of it to protecting against malpractice exposure. In fact, protecting against liability was merely an example of one type of unnecessary care and the article provided ZERO data on what fraction of the claimed “unnecessary care” was for protecting against lawsuits.
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I call that making sh-t up.

Speaking of nonsense, someone needs to tell Rahm Emanuel to, um, fact check, when he says that no one asked questions about Afghanistan.

CP in FL
“Insurance company profits are not the problem. ”

I am shocked! You mean the President and Democrats in Congress has been lying to us? (Not to mention the brite-light liberals here) Who would have thought.

So if its not profits why are they growing at an unsustainable rate?

square1, if we were just looking at that quote, you’d have a point. Depending on where to put the comma, it could be read in two ways.
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However, that 37% was -not- the total for unnecessary care, which is made clear by reading the article. The article called out various kinds of unnecessary care itself. 6% in unnecessary care because of duplication from poor record-sharing. Fraud, including kickbacks for unnecessary services, being 22%. Medical mistakes, causing unnecessary care, being 11%. And also not caring in time for preventable conditions like diabetes being another $30-$50 billion (which is 3.5%-10% given the overall dollar range given).
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Again, reading the article in full explains where they got their number, and their intent. Their point is clearly that 37% of waste comes from unnecessary treatments that are meant to guard against malpractice lawsuits.

Actually, it’s less satire than just plain ‘ol fearmongering… Townhall sets up the strawman and hypersensitive, hyperpartisan, not-as-bright-as-they-think-they-are conservatives start beating it.

It’s not as if this is something that hasn’t been happening; this is just a more obvious example.

http://www.politico.com/click/stories/0910/obama_ties_bush_on_golf.html
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Not that I care how much Obama plays golf, but a lot of left-wingers cared how much Bush did.

and what intelligent purpose does the Daily Kos serve other than to “set up the strawman and hypersensitive, hyperpartisan, not-as-bright-as-they-think-they-are liberals start beating it.

And imagine how difficult it is for Obama to fit it in between Letterman shows and serving as the First Tourist

This is LOL hilarious. It reminds me of an article I read a few months ago that said a huge number of conservatives are big fans of Stephen Colbert because they think he’s REALLY an O’Reilly clone.

While we are on the topic of medical malpractice or tort reform, I would ask people to apply common sense to this issue and not simply regurgitate statistics. It just isn’t theoretically possible that fear of litigation is significantly driving wasteful medical practices.

First, let us reflect on what the legal claims are in a medical malpractice suit: that (A) a doctor of hospital failed to provide an acceptable standard of medical care and that (B) the failure caused injury to the patient.

So, BY DEFINITION, the ability of doctor to protect herself against a malpractice suit by ordering a test is directly proportional to (A) whether the medical community expects the test to be ordered in similar circumstances and (B) whether the results of the test could have a significant impact on the future course of treatment.

To an insurance company, ALL treatment is unnecessary treatment. They don’t want to pay for anything. Any test they can deny payment on, they will try to do so. Medical malpractice liability is the best way to keep doctors’ interests aligned with the patients’ interests. If an insurance company thinks a test is unnecessary, but my doctor thinks she might get sued if she doesn’t perform the test, guess what? I want the test. The doctor wouldn’t be worried unless she thought the risks of not performing the test were not insignificant and that the test might reveal something useful.

Oh, come on, freeper – if you were as smart as you like to think you are, you would come up with your own phrasing instead of copying mine.
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As for DailyKos, I don’t go there with any sort of frequency, so I can’t tell you anything about it. Suprised?

not at all. Folks with deepest hate for conservatives look for any hint of wrong or perceived wrong and then place it on steroids and then say Look how bad they are. Usually with out any basis other than the fertive ramblings of their mind.

File under “You can’t make this up….”

9:58 PM
Ashley said…
I emailed the Hugh Hewitt site to ask for a correction on the date. It could just be an error. Why would Hugh Hewitt just make something like this up? I think it would be in poor taste.

Just to be clear, I’m not arguing that there are no unnecessary tests or procedures performed. Just that fear of liability is pretty far down on the list. Much more likely factors:

1. Doctors may have a financial interest in recouping costs of an expensive piece of medical hardware. E.g. An orthopedist may order more MRIs than necessary because she can bill for the machine.

2. Doctors may be too lazy or busy to explain to patients why a given procedure in not indicated. E.g. a doctor may not feel like explaining for the 1000th time why antibiotics don’t help if you have a virus and prescribe antibiotics to a patient for no reason.

3. Patients’ medical records are not centralized among health care providers and a doctor may be unaware that a test has already been performed.

4. Insufficient or adequate medical data and analysis prohibits doctors from making informed, science-based decisions on treatment. Doctors may call for a procedure based on anecdotal evidence that it is effective when a proper study would reveal that there is no significant benefit to the treatment.

Rising medical costs and insurance premiums are serious issues that require serious, intelligent, and complicated analysis. There are no simple solutions. There simply are not hundreds of billions of dollars in medical procedures being performed each year that “everyone would agree are unnecessary.”

Let’s see if we hear outrage from the MSM media over this:

“Disgraced former New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer thinks people who own shares in mutual and pension funds should pressure the directors and executives of America’s great corporations to silence the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.”

Not “dumb”. Their overwhelming need to follow their authoritarian leaders and hate their assigned enemies causes them to believe and do what they’re told and reject information that conflicts with the leader’s agenda. I’d call it a form of mental illness because of the delusional thinking that results from the agenda of certain leaders – in this case the corporatists “conservative” kind – and particularly the depraved lengths many followers will go to appease even more sociopathic leaders – think Milgram or the Limbaugh/Hannity and the nutters the Secret Service is constantly attempting to chase down. Oh, and when you lose your grip on reality, your grip on the humor that reality-based people enjoy usually goes with it.
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This lays it out in detail:
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Freepie, we all know the GOP healthcare plan:

Don’t get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly.

Get with the program, boy.

Can’t say that all right-wingers are stupid, but that’s only because I haven’t met a couple of them yet. Look at poor little freepie here – nothing to offer but lies, insults and secessionism. And does he wonder why the GOP is at a historic low? No, because, you see, Freepie just doesn’t like reality very much. It has these inconvenient things called facts out there, and Freepie hates facts, yes, precious, he hates them.

Bloggers? While I’m not a blogger sometimes they get things righter than the MSM.
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For instance, will Karen Tumulty issue a correction for misstating the number of uninsured “Americans”? Note that even BHO has been forced to (silently) revise the figures he uses, so she’s got clearance.

Haha. Commenters.

ok freep. What is the GOP health care plan?

We’re mentally-ill, at least by modern secularist standards. Which is to say, we are actually quite sane.

Probably harder than “clearin’ brush” at the ranch while terrorists finish their plans to kill 3,000 Americans in NY and Washington. But he’d better get started if he wants to compete with President Psychopath who went on to spend 30% of his presidency on vacation

grollican

No I just don’t like YOUR FACTS & REALITY. Just because you keep repeating things and having your other like minded folks agree doesn’t make it so.

And for the name calling, I respond in kind. Seems liberal suse that as their primary response then feign shock when fire is returned.

http://www.lucianne.com/images/lucianne/DailyPhoto/2009-10-25.jpg I offer you this for all the liberal crybabys

Freepie, how is the scrotum-sucking going for you? We all know that’s why you love the GOP.

Exiled – yes, the sanity of belonging to a church run by pedophiles. Impressive.

Poor Ashley needs to learn some patience. If she just waits a few days the ‘This Just In…’ dates will look better and the cognitive dissonance she is suffering from will no doubt go away.

square1,
You obviously need to work on your debating technique. How do you expect to win a Swampland debate (or even contribute to a reasonable discussion of the issues) with only a logical and well reasoned argument? Where are the ad hominem attacks and gratuitous insults?

Grollican-
I believe you and I have went a few rounds on this issue, so it would be futile to really engage you in this regard. However, for the benefit of fellow commentators I will point out that your word-choice betrays either a gross misreading of reality or an intentionally disingenuous manipulation.
…a church run by pedophiles…
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What you meant, of course, was a church that includes 1.2 billion Catholics worldwide, with a clergy of 500,000, that so happens to have allegations of sexual abuse against 5,000 individuals over the last 50 years. Hardly an indictment of anything other than human nature’s potential failings. Might I add that the majority of allegations stem from America’s most liberal diocese: Bernard Law in Boston, Bernadin in Chicago, Bishops of Seattle and LaCrosse, Wisconsin.
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Have a nice day, Grollican.

Exiled, why that’s so reassuring – only 1% of your so-called priests are “known” pedophiles! And of course you shuffled off the blame onto liberals, even though your last two popes knew all about the problem – and did nothing. Yes, the well-known “liberals” Wojtyla and Ratzinger! I notice that you haven’t managed to explain the rampant pedophilia in the Irish church, or, more importantly, why only Catholicism has a chronic, persistent and contemptible problem with pedophilia.

grollican

Would you feel better if the priests were members of NAMBLA or GLAAD. Those seem to be acceptable behavior to liberals

shepherdwong

“Probably harder than “clearin’ brush” at the ranch while terrorists finish their plans to kill 3,000 Americans in NY and Washington”

Gee you mean the guy who headed up the plans that was handed to Slick WIllie when he wasn’t playing hide the cigar with the chubby intern?

How long can he vote present before it happens here again?

Grollican-
I’m going with intentionally disingenuous to the extreme! There have been millions of Catholic priests, “so-called” or otherwise, over the course of the 50 years of allegations. So, the 5,000 accused are significantly less than 1% of the clergy during that period (a far lesser figure than society as a whole, by the way).
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I also notice your complete lack of understanding of the Catholic Church, and its hierarchy. Rome does not involve herself with the day-to-day affairs of the various Dioceses. The decisions to shuffle around alleged offenders were made by individual Bishops of largely liberal convictions. Furthermore, the majority of allegations, both in the US and Ireland, are dated at least 10 or 20 years. These events came during an era when the psychology of pedophilia was very misunderstood. Like the US public school system, Catholic Dioceses moved offenders to new parishes while they underwent therapy, which was thought to “cure” pedophilia at the time. Secular teachers across the US were treated similarly. Meanwhile, contrary to what you misstate, the Vatican was unaware of these informal policies until around 2000. Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, has went far beyond what he, or Rome, would be reasonably bound to do, as neither he, nor the Church was responsible for what transpired with the accused. Complicity in that regard lies solely with the offenders and a select few Bishops who thought they were doing the right thing by quietly seeking therapy for alleged offenders.

slowp, I do not think that right – wing fundamentalists are necessarily mentally ill. The lack of ability to construct a rational rather than emotional debate suggests a deficiency in education, while a lack of interest in the written rather than spoken word (presented either visually or aurally) suggests a deficiency in intellectual skills.

Put it another way, how many right wing fundamentalists have actually read something with which they could not interact in the last twelve months? This explains their inability to construct a sentence which is not only grammatically correct, but also has correct spelling.

There are so many occasions when I read one of the comments from rustyreturds, or freeinpa, or whatsisname, spongebob something and I have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Exiled:
Re: Your comments regarding the sex scandals in the Catholic church:
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“These events came during an era when the psychology of pedophilia was very misunderstood. Like the US public school system, Catholic Dioceses moved offenders to new parishes while they underwent therapy, which was thought to “cure” pedophilia at the time. Secular teachers across the US were treated similarly.”
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I am Catholic and found your analysis cold and uncaring, as well as minimizing a huge problem that was swept under the rug. Whether the psychology of pedophilia was misunderstood or not, molesting a child is wrong, is wrong, is wrong, period. Although there is no excuse for this behavior towards children by anyone, priests are held at a higher standard than secular teachers when it comes to issues of morality. I have a problem with the way the Vatican handled the situation after the incidents were brought to their attention. The victims were put through too much agony. The church covered for the offenders instead of protecting the victims far too long. This is where the Catholic church failed. I wonder if you would think the same if your son, or someone in your family had been one of the victims of sexual abuse by one of the priests.
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By the way, as a Catholic, I am NOT a right wing conservative. What a shocker!

Freeinpa:
The AP article you linked regarding the health insurance profits for 2008: It states the profits to be only 2.2%, placing the industry at #35 in the Fortune 500. You show this as proof of the Democrats’ exaggeration and lies about the insurance companies’ profit margins and tactics. I offer you this link:
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http://www.theledger.com/article/20090904/NEWS/909045003?Title=Executive-Bonuses-In-Health-Care-Companies-Deserve-Examination
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“Recently, United Healthcare reported a second quarter profit of more than $18 billion, netting its top executives millions of dollars in bonuses. Those who support private health insurance as the best way to distribute health services in the nation should take note of those staggering numbers.
In fact, over the past five years, the health-insurance industry has seen a 430 percent increase in profits, while premiums have tripled.” (Article posted Sep 2, 2009)
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Even if we leave it at ONLY 2.2% across the industry, as your article states, with about 80% of the US population insured one way or the other, through their employers or privately, this is 2.2% of every premium for about 200 million people. With all the pay-outs to hospitals, labs, doctors, we can see that just one insurance company, United Healthcare, as the above link shows, can still rake in $18 billion in profit for the SECOND QUARTER alone.

Adajam~
Your liberal convictions and your Catholic faith are in no way incompatible, nor shocking. The teachings of the Church coincide with many liberal views, such as welfare and opposition to capital punishment. The Catholic Church’s Social Justice Theory is the driving premise behind all social programs, tax-funded or otherwise. On the other hand, the Church’s rejection of moral relativism brings large conservative constituencies into the fold. Thus the universalism of the Church. I ascribe to some liberal positions because of my Catholic faith, and where Catholic thought aligns with conservatism, I subsequently follow such. I am, first and foremost, Catholic.
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I’m sorry to hear that you find my analysis to be callous. I do not seek to belittle what has occurred at the hands of some wolves in priest’s clothing. However, I firmly believe that the frenzy surrounding this so-called ‘scandal’ is not born of any moral high ground, but out of bigotry towards the Catholic Church. The extent to which the allegations have been acceded to (5,000 priests among roughly 2 million during the 50 year period) is an unfortunate, yet undeniably low, occurrence that does not warrant to pervasive media frenzy, social stigma, and bigoted workplace “jokes” that have resulted. The Church is not defined by individuals within it, but by its teachings and its theological continuity.

Exiled;

I agree completely that the Catholic Church has liberal views and teachings, inside its conservative posture. My “What a shocker!” statement as a way of explaining my non-right wing conservative views while at the same time being a Catholic was just my way of denouncing (in an obscure way) those right-wing conservative talk show hosts who profess their Catholic beliefs while going into intolerant and close-minded tirades without thinking or minding who they might slander. There are many times when facts matter nothing to them. When facts are thrown out the window, twisted to fit a pre-conceived agenda, or taken out of context, all this is called a LIE. To hide behind the Catholic faith (Sean Hannity), or behind a crucifix (Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham), while spewing such venom, is quite sacrilegious, in my point of view. This is why I made the statement.
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Now, although I have liberal views, I cannot identify myself as a liberal either. This is not because I am ambivalent. It is because I am an Independent, and my views and beliefs are not black/white. Conservatives love to say liberals are atheists and baby killers, etc; liberals say conservatives are gun-toting religious fanatics, etc. THAT is the type of fanatism and one-track mind that is taking this country down a very dangerous path. Generalizations based on extremists’ views do nothing for intelligent discourse, but it seems this is what is running the political arguments nowadays.
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I still believe, and this is my opinion, that the Vatican could have handled the sexual abuse cases with expediency and openness. I do agree the jokes were in bad taste, but those would have occurred regardless of the treatment of the incidents on the part of the Church. In a democracy with free speech, this is bound to happen. I am not condoning the actions of the comedians, I am stating a fact. The press had a job to do. Did they go overboard in their coverage? Perhaps. But, no different than Clinton/Lewinski; O.J.Simpson; et al. Saturation for the sake of selling papers or TV and/or radio slots.
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The Catholic Church has survived this, as I knew it would, but this has left some scars, and it is unfortunate.

Adajam~
Thanks for a well-reasoned response. I absolutely agree with your assessment of the dangers posed by both extreme ends of the political spectrum. However, I will warn you that in Swampland this position is often viewed as all-evil and duplicitous centrism (Stuart, JC, *sigh*)…
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In any case, while I agree that the Dioceses could have handled the abuse allegations in a better manner, I still stand strong in my conviction that the Church and the faith should not be confused with its individuals. And, you are absolutely correct, the Church has survived and will continue to survive and grow. In case you missed it, the Vatican and traditional Anglicans just reached an agreement and made a joint announcement that the Church will establish an English rite allowing a conversion en masse of Anglicans. They will retain their English liturgies and traditions, even the allowance of currently married Anglican priests to be reordained in the Catholic faith. This move has already been welcomed by three prominent Anglican bishops and nearly a thousand priests are expected to enter the fold. Interesting and positive news. Another brilliant stroke in diplomacy by Benedict.

Exiled;
These are great news indeed. A bold and progressive move that will bring the Catholic Church to the 21st century. Kudos to Benedict! This can only help the Catholic Church.
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I am new in Swampland, and do not engage in active blogging, but I do read the posts when I can. Thank you for the warning about centrism. If my beliefs are construed as centrists in any way, so be it. I appreciate your concern, though. I express what I think and believe.
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It is a pleasure “talking” to a person like you who does not resort to name-calling and insults. Even if we did not initially agree, we were able to talk about the issue in a reasonable and intelligent manner. I have the feeling that even if we had not agreed at all in the end, we would have still respected each other’s views. If only everyone were like that…..

I try to adhere to such a modus operandi. Admittedly, I’ve been known to resort to more juvenile responses, however, that is usually with commentators who have a history of uncivil discourse and a near complete lack of tolerance for rivaling views, especially those bound to religious doctrine or moral absolutism.
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It’s been a pleasure exchanging thoughts, adajam.