I Guess They Don’t Do Oppo Research In France

Just…wow. I honestly don’t know what’s more shocking–that France’s culture minister, the same fellow who vociferously defended Roman Polanski and complained the director was being “thrown to the lions,” has a history of paying for sex with “young boys” in Thailand or that HE WROTE ABOUT IT IN A BOOK FOUR YEARS AGO.

And not that there’s a non-creepy way to write about traveling to Asia to have sex with young boys, but Frederic Mitterand certainly brought the ick in his memoir, The Bad Life:

I got into the habit of paying for boys….All these rituals of the market for youths, the slave market excited me enormously… the abundance of very attractive and immediately available young boys put me in a state of desire.

I know the French consider Americans incredibly prudish and think we overreact to silly things like a political candidate fathering a child with his mistress while his wife is out campaigning for him and, oh yeah, dying of cancer. But I find it rather remarkable that Mitterand outs himself and not only is it not a barrier to his joining the Sarkozy government, but no one ever even mentions it until now. Of course, now Sarkozy’s political opponents are all over it. Had it never occurred to anyone to pop into a bookstore and skim the book?

Related Topics: Uncategorized
  • Latest on Swampland

    Obama to Submit His Budget to Congress on Monday

    President Barack Obama is pressing for investments in infrastructure while relying on familiar tax increases on the wealthy and corporations to claim progress on the federal deficit in his upcoming budget.

    Romney: I Was A 'Severely Conservative' GovernorHuffPost Politics

    Robert F. Bukaty / AP

    With Saturday Victories, Romney Retakes Control of the GOP Narrative

    Mitt Romney, the perpetually questioned front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, had a rough week. Three embarrassing losses to Rick Santorum in Tuesday’s non-binding contests led to questions about Romney’s conservative bona fides just in time for GOP activists, gathering at their annual Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, to collectively grumble about it. But in two narrow, largely symbolic victories on Saturday, Romney reclaimed the headlines. Never mind the details. He was winning again.

  • queencersei

    Well now it makes sense! One pedophile looking out for another one.

  • stuartzechman

    Amy Sullivan:
    .
    It seems that you’re getting a real thrill out of being “shocked” over the moral failures of others, doesn’t it?
    .
    Can you recall what Jesus said to those who betrayed a similar lust to judge…something about being the first to cast stones…?
    .
    Can you remember what our Lord told us about our descent into the pointing, clucking, sneering, self-congratulatory spasms of moral magpies, Amy Sullivan?

  • apollyon07

    Stuart, I’ve sinned too, but I haven’t drugged and raped a young girl or paid for sex with young boys. Somebody else mentioned this SP quote earlier: “Dude…you have SEX…with CHILDREN”.
    .
    I know it sounds jingoistic, but this is one reason I’m proud to be an American- we don’t coddle criminals, and don’t put up with BS moral relativism like this.

  • incandenzah

    stuartzechman: You’re killing me, man! Brilliant (and quick!) takedown of TIME’s resident moral scold. One of them, anyway. Not that I support Frenchmen buying slave boys, mind you. But I do happen to think (like, Amy tells me, the French do) that what John Edwards did really has nothing whatever to do with his abilities to do the job, or not. It’s just personal-life gossip that “journalists” can’t seem to get enough of.

  • activistmom

    How can you commentators support childhood sexual abuse and call it being a ‘moral scold’ to call the abusers out on it? Have you NO shame? Or concern for the well-being of minors? None? Really?

    I’m with apollyion. Except that, unfortunately, I know from professional experience in the field that the US isnt doing such a brilliant job of handling molesters either. But at least we don’t justify their actions!

  • incandenzah

    Sorry to make light of children sold into prostitution… I was actually getting on her for bringing up the tired, old John Edwards crap (again).

  • spob

    Well, Amy, then I look forward to your discussion of Arne Duncan–approved Kenneth Jennings, he of not reporting adult-child bathroom trysts despite his obligation to do so and of admiring a NAMBLA founder.
    .
    By the way, did anyone else see this bon mot from Tom Shales:
    .
    “There is, apparently, more to this crime than it would seem, and it may sound like a hollow defense, but in Hollywood I am not sure a 13-year-old is really a 13-year-old.”

  • walkingfunny

    To you and incandenzah:
    this is really troubling. What the %#@* …. the point is not that he “sinned”, the point is that he sinned and he is standing by it. I read the article on the BBC website and I almost threw up.
    .

    Your partial knowledge of Jesus’ teaching is more dangerous than no knowledge at all. When Jesus told people with no sin to cast the first stone and nobody could not because they also had sin, he then told the woman “go and sin no more”. How can you miss that part? This man is the serving minister in a nation that is currently cooperating with Thailand to eradicate the sick practice of paying to rape underage children, yet, he not only does this, but has the hubris to record this in a book for public consumption. And when he is called out by sane people (thank God there are still a few left even in France), is retort is that they are making something out of nothing and that when he wrote “young boys”, he was using the term loosely. Am I the only one who is aghast at this? There is little basis to compare this to the John Edwards case, these were all issues with consenting adults, but when the serving minister of a civil nation paid to f#%* children then boasts about it, I do have a problem, and by God, I hope the majority of the members of all civil societies also have a problem with it.
    .
    By the way, I am a democrat, and liberal on most issues, but stories like this feel me with horror. I sincerely hope that the day will never come in America when pedophiles who boast about their escapades are allowed to be in authority. I know their are people in authority who have done the likes and worse, but at least our corporate civility still makes sure that they cannot act like they are proud of their acts. I hope America retains the ability to shame such disgustful behavior.
    .
    Amy: good job on the story, I share your horror on this, and sincerely hope we are not in the minority.
    .
    God have mercy!

  • Ffred

    The actual point of this post, though, is pretty freakin’ hilarious.

  • spob

    I don’t know what’s more appalling, the actual act between Mitterand and these boys, or the fact that he knew the appalling conditions in which these boys were forced to live and still contributed to those conditions by paying their masters.
    .
    Child prostitution is an incredibly ugly thing. The sex acts are awful; the slavery is unimaginable.
    .
    I have to throw up now.

  • spob

    I am not sure “pretty freakin’ hilarious” is what I’d call this post.

  • activistmom

    A 13 year old is a 13 year old. Period. Not mature enough to EVER give voluntary consent, whether in Hollywood, West Virginia or Thailand!

    Plus, does anyone REALLY think a kid COULD HAVE or WOULD HAVE consented to anal sex when they were drugged and fed alcohol?

    Why do people keep justifying the actions of child molesters?

  • walkingfunny

    I disagree with you on a lot of things, but on this, I’ll really have to join you in throwing up …….
    .
    I am liberal on many things and I really hope that the position taken by Stuart and co. is not representative of liberals. I really hope I’m right. I hope all of us, irrespective of our political leanings will have the first reaction of absolute disgust …. I mean, how can any civil human being rationalize this away?… how?

  • spob

    What about Ken Jennings, Obama’s school-safety czar? He didn’t report adult-child bathroom trysts despite an obligation to do so as a school administrator and he praised a NAMBLA founder.
    .
    wtf?

  • spob

    Thank you walkingfunny for that bit of clear thinking. I cannot add to your post.

  • spob

    Praise where praise is due:

    “but Frederic Mitterand certainly brought the ick in his memoir”
    .
    Congratulations, Amy, for an awesome phrase-turn: “bringing the ick” pretty much sums up what this reptile did.

  • spob

    Ken Jennings, an admirer of a NAMBLA founder, is a member of the Obama Administration. Seems that moral relativism is not just confined to France.

  • rmrd

    Granted adultery and pedophilia are not equal. Adultery occurs between two consenting adults. However, adultery occurring when the wife is ill, especially with cancer, does disturb the senses. Newt Gingrich and John Edwards both share this distinction. Gingrich was having an affair while actively condemning Bill Clinton. John Edwards also stated that the Clinton affair was disrespectful of the office of President. In the end, hypocrisy make Gingrich and Edwards targets.
    .
    A man who admits having sex with boys and subsequently supports a man who had sex with a 13 year-old girl cannot be defended. Amy Sullivan’s main point about the French culture minister stands. The attack on her comment about Edwards is a distraction from the issue.
    .
    Edwards, like Gingrich, made himself a punching bag. Both will be the subjects of drive by commentary.

  • queencersei

    I spent two years toiling in Child Protection. Sadly a lot of perpetrators to get away with molesting children. It falls under “what do you know vs. what can you prove in a court of law”. Worse was how many mothers would defend these guys and stick with them. Even if it meant having their child(ren) being taken into state custody. And even more infuriating is the short statue of limitations there is on prosecuting sex abuse cases.

  • destor23

    Another day another “Amy judges other people’s sexual exploits” post.

  • activistmom

    Geez destor…you have a problem with calling out people on their poor moral choices?

  • vastwastelander

    Kevin Jennings, spob. Kevin. As far as I know, the former Jeopardy! champ isn’t a child molester.

  • vastwastelander

    If you’re gonna keep reiterating the same quasi-factual tripe, at least get the name right.

  • spob

    I don’t think Amy was being gratuitous here. The French look down their noses at us about our “prudishness”, but they have people like this reptile in their government.
    .
    Gingrich is scum; just like Edwards is scum. What they did to their spouses was simply awful.
    .
    In any event, over here we have Ken Jennings. I’d say he “brought the ick”, though not as much as that scum Mitterand.

  • greenlyfe

    I can not believe these posts calling out someone for calling out a pedophile and slaver! Damn. Rape is rape is rape is rape folks…and buying a little boy makes you not only a rapist but a slaver. I mean, what the hell do you judge if not that? Any move towards acceptance of these actions I would equate with pure and unadulterated evil…and I don’t understand why this blog can’t post about something like this that is horrifying.

    Frankly, IMO, Roman Polanski needs to be tried. His arrest is long overdue. And that this cabinet official hasn’t been jailed is sick and wrong…but at least it explains his perverted support of Mr. Polanski. Something I can not fathom and do judge.

  • constantweader

    My my! Pedophines on Parade. No Orrin Hatch on Mitterand’s confirmation committee, I guess. Sarkozy has backed away from his support of Polanski. Now he needs to ditch Mitterand. Fast. The French may be so sophisticated they didn’t care that Mitterand’s uncle kept a mistress while he was President, but abusing children is quite a different thing — & the French have the same attitude about pedophia as we do. It’s perverse & criminal.

    The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

  • spob

    My bad. I got the name of a perv wrong. Not sure that what ive said is “quasi-factual”. Is it not true that he looked the other way when one of his students was engaging in adult-child trysts in men’s rooms? Is it not true that he praised a NAMBLA founder?

  • greenlyfe

    Mr. Jennings did not speak approvingly of a NAMBLA founder at all…this was all a lie.

    As for the young man, apparently the age of consent in MA is 16 and it was a willing encounter not a rape. So, this is far different but your attempts to conflate the issue sad.

  • spob

    queen, under the Anne Applebaum school of morality, because the moms looked the other way, that somehow mitigated the responsibility of the molester. How obtuse is that?

  • stuartzechman

    walkingfunny:
    .
    It seems that, in addition to whatever horror you share with Amy Sullivan, you also share the same thrilling excitement of publicly declaring your moral outrage, and love of confirming your own moral superiority in comparison with the worst of the wretchedly sinful.
    .
    The more outraged you are, the more obvious your righteousness, isn’t that how it really works for you?
    .
    Aren’t these sorts of terrible events really vehicles for your own desires, your own fears, your own sins?
    .
    Isn’t that the real reason for your need to publicly declare your shock and condemnation, walkingfunny…because it feels so good to be so right when some other is so bad?
    .
    And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. –John 8:11
    .
    Isn’t that the real lesson of Jesus’ encounter with the adulteress and the Pharisees,walkingfunny?
    .
    Don’t you know that?

  • vastwastelander

    Hate to be a prude, but I’m with activistmom, et al., in that sometimes judging people’s sexual exploits is like judging them for mugging old ladies: regardless of the morally relativistic arguments, what they did was pretty creepy, and I’m pretty comfortable judging them.
    .
    Regardless of where he was in life, psychologically, Polanski’s behavior was disgusting. Ditto Mitterand’s, ditto Edwards’s, ditto Gingrich’s. The Kevin Jennings situation may have been a little different, but like Van Jones, it appears he was at least guilty of bad judgment.

  • spob
  • spob

    I should be clear about Jennings–he isn’t in the same league as Mitterand when it comes to depravity. Not. Even. Close.

  • destor23

    I don’t know anything about the laws or moral customs of Thailand so it’s not really for me to say if anyone is calling anyone out for “bad moral choices.”

  • destor23

    She’s not just calling the guy creepy. I don’t have a problem with that. By all means, call people creepy if you think they are. She’s saying it makes him unfit for his job. Does she know anything at all about his qualifications or accomplishments as culture minister?

  • vastwastelander

    Well, to start with a small quibble, a teacher isn’t the same thing as an administrator, and greenlyfe addresses the other issues above. If the kid was a high school sophomore, it’s a 50/50 on whether he was 15 or 16, so right now you’re assuming facts not in evidence. You’re creating a false equivalency between Jennings and Polanski, which has been happening a lot lately, and it’s kind of aggravating.
    .
    “Oh, Obama wants to socialize medicine! The U.S. will be like Soviet Russia, rather than, you know . . . Canada.”
    .
    See how stupid that is?

  • queencersei

    spob, I can’t even begin to get my head around the “well her mom might have known about it and was so pushy that her kid must have had it coming” defense. I wonder if Anne would be so quick to coddle a self admitted sex offender if her own child was the victim? Then again, I spent two years watching some mothers side with their child’s abusers, no matter what evidence was against the guy.

  • spob

    surely you jest, destor.
    .
    I’ll leave it to those on your side of the aisle to police your comments.

  • activistmom

    green…Polanski WAS tried. AND CONVICTED.

    People… people…the LAW judges these people. It is illegal in this country to have sex with a minor. Period. Really simple. A child CANNOT give their consent. We dont even HAVE to judge them by our morality. In this country, what they have done is illegal! For example, Polanski and the 13 year old. Save your moral judgement, let the law decide. And if it isnt illegal in France, or Thailand, well then maybe we need to work to help those countries get their laws fixed.

  • Ivy_B

    Guys, re: Fox News smear of Kevin Jennings. More at the link.

    Fox News and its websites Fox Nation and FoxNews.com repeatedly advanced the falsehood that Department of Education official Kevin Jennings, in the words of Fox News host Bill Hemmer, knew of a “statutory rape” and “never reported it.” While pushing this attack on Jennings, Fox News ignored evidence that the student who told Jennings about his relationship with an older man was of legal age, and Media Matters for America has since confirmed that the student was of legal age and that Fox News’ smears of Jennings were scurrilous and false.

    http://mediamatters.org/research/200910050018

  • somepeoplelikeit

    Judging the judgmental for judging others? Thick, thick irony.

  • spob

    the defense is not a real defense, it’s a makeweight–she can’t just bring herself to say that she doesn’t give a fig about Polanski’s crimes, so that’s how she rationalizes her feelings of empathy for him.

  • vastwastelander

    Thanks Ivy. Didn’t see that little tidbit, and if some of the posters on this site are intellectually honest, they’ll admit that they’re wrong. The case with Jennings is really no different than that of, say, Sarah Palin, or whoever sat by silently as Strom Thurmond knocked up his housekeeper and paid her to keep quiet.

  • Paul-no not that one

    Wouldn’t Mark Foley be a more accurate corollary than John Edwards in this case?

  • spob

    Ivy, seems Jennings doesnt agree with that assessment:
    .
    “Twenty one years later I can see how I should have handled this situation differently. I should have asked for more information and consulted legal or medical authorities. Teachers back then had little training or guidance about this kind of thing. All teachers should have a basic level of preparedness. I would like to see the Office of Safe and Drug Free Schools play a bigger role in helping to prepare teachers.”

    -Kevin Jennings, Assistant Deputy Secretary, Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools

    And he likes Harry Hay:

    Here’s the quote from Kevin:
    .
    “One of the people that’s always inspired me is Harry Hay, who started the first ongoing gay rights groups in America. In 1948, he tried to get people to join the Mattachine Society. It took him two years to find one other person who would join. Well, [in] 1993, Harry Hay marched with a million people in Washington, who thought he had a good idea 40 years before. Everybody thought Harry Hay was crazy in 1948, and they knew something about him which he apparently did not—they were right, he was crazy. You are all crazy. We are all crazy. All of us who are thinking this way are crazy, because you know what? Sane people keep the world the same old way it is now. It’s the people who think, ‘No, I can envision a day when straight people say, “So what if you’re promoting homosexuality?”‘ Or straight kids say, ‘Hey, why don’t you and your boyfriend come over before you go to the prom and try on your tuxes on at my house?’ That if we believe that can happen, we can make it happen. The only thing that will stop us is our lack of faith that we can make it happen. That is our mission from this day forward. To not lose our faith, to not lose our belief that the world can, indeed, be a different place. And think how much can change in one lifetime if in Harry Hay’s one very short life, he saw change from not even one person willing to join him to a million people willing to travel to Washington to join him.“
    .
    And who is Harry Hay??
    .
    Come on guys, is this quasi-factual?

  • queencersei

    I spent time in Thailand back in 96′. Thailand was cracking down on the child sex trade even then. In part because they wanted to protect the kids and also to reduce the incidents of AIDS in that country. These kids were brought in to the country either because their parents thought they would be employed legitimately or because they had been outright kidnapped. The frequenters of these brothels included Australian, American and European men out for a little holiday. The children had no choice, no where to go and were subject to violence if they did try to run. Obviously their lives were and are brutal.

  • spob

    Yes.

  • spob

    Guys, his own words indicate he thought that the kid was 15.
    .
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,562501,00.html
    .
    Moreover, would you want some teacher, administrator, principal, what have you, counseling a kid who admitted to anonymous trysts in men’s rooms just to “make sure he wore a condom”? Wtf? Moreover, Jennings has indicated that he handled it incorrectly.
    .
    “Twenty one years later I can see how I should have handled this situation differently. I should have asked for more information and consulted legal or medical authorities. Teachers back then had little training or guidance about this kind of thing. All teachers should have a basic level of preparedness. I would like to see the Office of Safe and Drug Free Schools play a bigger role in helping to prepare teachers.”
    .
    And he praised Harry Hay guys, come on.

  • Ivy_B

    Fox and followers continue to smear Jennings, to distract from serious matters.

    http://mediamatters.org/research/200910080016

  • spob

    Who is Harry Hay? Someone praised by Jennings. And Jennings thought the kid was 15. And he has admitted that he handled it incorrectly.
    .
    Besides, in your zeal to cover for someone who thinks that adult-child anonymous trysts are cool, ponder whether school administrators should be cool with kids engaging in that kind of dangerous behavior.

  • spob

    oh really, Ivy, so when a kid comes to a teacher, administrator, what have you and admits to dangerous sexual activity (e.g., adult-child homosexual trysts in bathrooms), you’re ok with the teacher patting him on the head and saying, well, just wear a condom.
    .
    You must not be a parent.

  • Ffred

    The actual point of the post, which nobody seems to be getting, is that not only was the vetting process on this guy seriously flawed, even worse than McCain’s and Obama’s, but that the opposition never caught on to it either! I mean, come on, lighten up, folks. LOL for a bit.

  • walkingfunny

    “The more outraged you are, the more obvious your righteousness, isn’t that how it really works for you?”
    .
    what arrant nonsense! What does my righteousness have to do with this? I’m simply saying the guy is sick SOB, and if this is not your first reaction to the fact that he has done such heinous things and yet, he stands by them, then I guess the whole of this discussion is futile ….. we definitely live in different worlds.
    .
    “And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. –John 8:11
    .
    Isn’t that the real lesson of Jesus’ encounter with the adulteress and the Pharisees,walkingfunny?”
    .
    I’m always amazed at how good folks can be at cherry picking. How come you capitalize the ” Neither do I condemn you”, but not the ” go, and sin no more”? I don’t condemn you because there is mercy and forgiveness …. very basic foundations of christianity …, but also go and sin no more … repentance … also a basic foundation of christianity. You can’t sit on that two-legged stool and wonder why you keep falling flat on your face. You need a third leg, to be forgiven for what you have done, you first need to admit that it is wrong (not make silly excuses or worse still boast about it), then you need to make an effort to turn away from it, also based on the fact that you acknowledge that it is bad. Can you still fall back into it?, sure, but final redemption requires an admission of fault not some silly rationalization of what is (or at least) should be patently evil to all, irrespective of their background.
    .
    You don’t have to agree with the christian theology, that is not the standard here, what I am hoping will appeal to you, and to all is common humanity, that is a pretty low, and generally universal standard. If you feel comfortable to rationalize away the actions of this idiot, then you may just be scoring a failing grade in the basic human test. Tell me, what are your thoughts on people who commit genocide and are proud of their exploits?

  • spob

    Guys, media matters defense is pathetic. Gee, he thought the kid was 15, but he really was 16, and even though he now thinks that he didn’t do the right thing. Come on.
    .
    http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/10/media-matters-fails-in-attempt-to-defend-kevin-jennings.html
    .
    Pathetic guys, pathetic.

  • spob
  • Dee in Columbia MD

    When I first read this thread I wanted to jump to Stuart’s defense. I immediately wanted to call out those commenters too incapable of recognizing stupidity to avoid it, since it was so obvious that Stuart wasn’t advocating or excusing child molestation. Simply musing how hypocritical it is for a member of the moral police like Amy, to not only use the vile crime of child sex trafficking to backhandedly instigate yet another round of pin the political tail of John Edwards, she seems to consistently ignore the tenets of the faith from which she allegedly draws moral interpretation credentials in order to do it.
    .
    I’m sure that Stuart doesn’t need me to explain his motives. But I just can’t get over how quickly Amy’s fellow morality experts conflated his observation into some kind of degenerate behavior that liberals must now answer for. That this is absurd is obvious but her propensity to drive this blog into Beck and Limbaugh territory is testimony to the harm she has done since her arrival.
    .
    In the space of a few minutes we went from a unsolicited critique of french political discourse to a Beck worthy distortion, a Ken Jennings meme which has nothing at all to do with anything except the conservative imperative to conflate all things homosexual with anything that is sex related and vile. Yet somehow not appreciating Amy’s contributions has become indicative of moral failings. Please the problems most of us have with the vocally judgemental is that they always inevitably go one step too far.

  • activistmom

    That was one hell of an overstatement Dee. I appreciate that Ms Sullivan revealed something about Mr Mitterand that I didnt know. His moral failings rival those of the man he is protecting. End of subject.

  • Ivy_B

    Dee, you are right. I am so irritated by the way the right takes on their stupid attacks that I got involved in it. I had to do the one post because what was presented was so wrong, but I should not have continued.

    Your first paragraph is what I thought in the first place and I should have stopped with my thoughts and not taken that second step. Thank you for bringing the discussion back on point.

  • spob

    Dee, I live in a neighborhood that is very gay. I really have zero issues with homosexuality. I have a lot of issues with people who praise NAMBLA founders and who think kids cruising bathrooms is ok.

  • spob

    Jennings doesn’t defend his actions.

  • stuartzechman

    walkingfunny:
    .
    I’ll take the chance that you’re not deliberately missing the point to reiterate simply:
    .
    You sure do love to feel righteous.
    .
    That’s not what God intends for us to be when confronting the occurrence of mortal sin.
    .
    It’s pretty vile of you to equate criticism of you (or the smugly shocked Amy Sullivan) with the condoning of child rape, but it seems that you may just have not given it much thought yourself, and aren’t accustomed to people who are Christian enough to think before they leap to join the bleating chorus of “Look! A sinner! Not me…over there! A sinner!“, walkingfunny.
    .
    Look, you’re not proving anything to anyone by being as loudly horrified and shocked as you are, except maybe that you love to vicariously participate in sin from the safety of a viewing gallery, and that, if you weren’t “liberal”, you’d be rapaciously watching segments like this http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204143,00.html or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20I5ZiELU8s tsk-tsking and tut-tutting the whole time.
    .
    The point of John 8 is that God is telling us not to celebrate our own righteousness through the sins of others, but to work very hard ourselves to know and perform the true will of Jesus, which is to perfect ourselves through intimacy with the good (Him).
    .
    It has nothing whatsoever to do with some “two legged stool” nonsense. It’s Jesus’ demonstration of the spirit of the law.
    .
    Really, honestly, just try to think about it when you calm down from your bouts of shock and horror (and righteousness) some day in the future, OK?

  • rmrd

    …………..Hay had strong opinions and never pandered to popular opinion when he voiced them — whether he was attacking national gay organizations for what he saw as their increasingly conservative political positions (“The assimilationist movement is running us into the ground,” he told the San Francisco Chronicle in July 2000) or when he condemned the national gay press — in particular, the Advocate — for its emphasis on consumerism. He was, at times, a serious political embarrassment, as when he consistently advocated the inclusion of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in gay-pride parades.

    http://www.theminorityreportblog.com/story/steve_foley/2009/10/02/harry_hay_nambla_and_obama_s_safe_schools_czar

    This seems to be the “praise” that Jennings has heaped upon Hay. Jennings noted that Hay criticized gay organization for tending towards conservatism and consumerism. Jennings rejects NAMBLA.

    Jennings admits poor handling of the situation with the student. In summary we have a person with agreed that
    some gay organizations were becoming more conservative and commercial. Jennings did not praise NAMBLA.

    If I note that the GOP behaves in a more united fashion than Democrats, I am noting a select behavior. I’ m not agreeing with the xenophobia, racism, and jingoism that the modern GOP exemplifies. I don’t see Jennings supporting pedophilia.

  • activistmom

    stuart–
    I spend my entire working life helping kids who are being sexually abused. I’ve seen it all…and it gets pretty godawful, trust me. Like the other SW on here, I have seen parents blame the kid, I have seen the system blame the kid… and I have seen the arrogant use their christianity to try to judge those to KNOW how wrong it is to sexually abuse a kid and those who have no need for your damn concepts of ‘sin’ and ‘forgiveness’. You blame those who have a clear sense of right and wrong and who YES, take pleasure in helping innocent kids who have been abused. And damned if I see ANYTHING wrong with THAT! I do NOT subscribe to the hypocritical christianity you are spouting, but neither would I deny your right to spout it. Just try not to aim it at those of us who fight every day to protect and defend the KIDS.
    Thanks.

  • piper1

    On the Kevin Jennings smear, don’t you Wingnuts have anything better to do than to character-assassinate bit players in a Democratic Administration? I mean, I know this is pretty radical stuff, but maybe you pathetic snipers could focus that laser beam on something relevant to the progress of the country?
    .
    It is hard to imagine where you ignoramuses get your sense of moral superiority when your pathetic jingoist party just voted en masse to make sure that victims of rape by our “contractors” overseas cannot have their day in court. Fortunately, the Democrats along with the handful of Republican women in the Senate saw to it that accountability be upheld. http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2009/10/06/12247/senate_passes_franken_amendment_aimed_at_defense_contractors
    .
    The Republican Party- Objectively Pro-Rape and Anti-Accountability.

  • spob

    And Mussolini made the trains run on time . . . .
    .
    But rmrd, Jennings was also cool with adult-child trysts in men’s rooms. And supported Hay. You telling me that this guy should be in the educational bureaucracy?

  • xxception

    You also miss the convenient fact that Jennings himself wrote the boy was 15 at the time. So, even if he was 16 as he claims, Jennings BELIEVED him to be 15, ergo, in his mind he WAS counseling somone under the age of legal consent.

  • activistmom

    to=who

  • stuartzechman

    Dee:
    .
    I feel like I’m participating in a reenactment of Life of Brian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erthun0Pauc&feature=related

  • stuartzechman
  • yoshiattack

    I won’t say this often, but thanks, Amy…this thread has been very revealing of the attitudes of certain posters.

  • activistmom

    What an inanely frivolous reply. I guess you really ARE incapable of taking the issue of childhood sexual abuse seriously if all you can do is to spout your religious beliefs about ‘sin’ and ‘forgiveness’ and show Monty Python clips. OK, I’m out of here. I’ve far, far, FAR better things to do with my time than to debate with religious zealots. I pity any child who depends on YOU for their protection tho.

  • jcapan

    Wow what a perfect pearl-clutching storm–Hollywood, the deviant French, references to John Edwards! It’s too much for me to stand, all this tasty dish. Again, the moment Amy Sullivan expels as much gasping oxygen about this or this wake me up.
    .
    But I would add that this…
    .
    “It seems that, in addition to whatever horror you share with Amy Sullivan, you also share the same thrilling excitement of publicly declaring your moral outrage, and love of confirming your own moral superiority in comparison with the worst of the wretchedly sinful.”
    .
    … may not be that diff from our own public declarations of scorn for such commentary. We’re above the purtians, right?

  • gysgt213

    Spob-Have you ever considered that you just might be judging Jennings a tad to harshly here?
    .
    From what I understand Jennings at time was just 24 years old himself and while a teacher at the time that is still a very young age maturity and judgement wise.
    .
    He also at the time had not come out as a gay man himself. Outing yourself as gay even today is still a pretty tough thing to do. And especially if you are in a postion like a teacher. There are people all over this country that have a serious problem with a gay person teaching their children. That is just a fact. Imagine 21 years ago.
    .
    This kid more than likely couldn’t talk to his parents or any other teachers. And the kid apparently had according to Jennings pretty low self esteem. No wonder since we as a society do not treat gay people very well. We thing we can cure them or shun them.
    .
    So you got a young kid and a young teacher both not knowing what to do. But one thing that probably crossed both their minds was that if they told anyone else the results would probably not be very pretty for either of them.
    ,
    Now apparently Jennings struggled with this because if not for him, you and I wouldn’t know anything about this. He obviously regrets the way he handled the decision with 21 years of maturity under his belt.
    .
    I don’t know, I’m just glad I was not faced with type of decisions like this when I was 24 years old.

  • Friar Tuck

    SZ, I’m sorry that you’re getting beat up here for no good reason. When I saw you being described as a “religious zealot,” I about swallowed my crucifix (no, I’m not Catholic, but I do think the point is less the cross than it is the man who died on it).
    .
    Somehow, this whole sick mess has turned into an opportunity for AS to flaunt something (anything) that’s a sure-fire bond with what she takes to be her “audience.” That’s sad.
    .
    Meanwhile, in the real world, the rich stay healthy and the sick stay poor.

  • yoshiattack

    Even if you excuse his avoidance of telling anyone else, I’m pretty sure he should have known enough to tell the kid not to look for gay sex with older men in bus station bathrooms. I mean, that’s, uh, unsafe. To say the least.

  • stuartzechman

    I was wondering what you might think of this exchange, FT.

  • rose83

    I couldn’t care less about whether Amy Sullivan was being self-righteous in her relevant and serious denunciation of Mitterand’s history of supporting sexual abuse. Just like I couldn’t care less if Glenn Greenwald is self-righteous in his relevant and serious columns.
    .
    OTOH, I am disturbed by her unnecessary reference to Edwards, since it is promoting this idea of brutal child rape/sex scandal equivalency which is at the heart of that horrifying peition in support of Polanski, with its reference to a “morals case”.

  • sacredh

    I’m of two minds on the subject. I think people who molest children should get the death penalty. On the other hand I was having sex with a teacher when I was 16. She was twice my age. All of the coercion was on my part. It went on for a few years. I guess as a child I molested adults.

  • spob

    Gysgt, you’re kidding, right? Children and cruising bus stops ain’t exactly safe. A 24 year old should know that.
    .
    And praising a NAMBLA founder? Indefensible.

  • stuartzechman

    Rose:
    .
    I could care less if Amy Sullivan were being self-righteous and judgmental in a relevant and serious denunciation of anything that merited such a response, but this isn’t serious at all. It’s tabloid, exploitative, and a pseudo-moral defense of he own village fools-for-scandal appetites.
    .
    I mean…she even gets in the whole “The French are pedophiles!” thing they’re saying half-jokingly in the Village now, as if there’s a correlation between European culture having moved on from Madonna-Whore (and have no penalty for displaying female nipples on broadcast television) and child sexual abuse.
    .
    This kind of thing from her is damaging in its own right.

  • dadanarchist

    Nobody tell Amy Sullivan about Daniel Cohn-Bendit , leader of the French Greens.

  • dadanarchist

    Really, you’re going to use Dan Riehl to attack Media Matters?

    Dan Riehl, who speculated apropos of nothing other than the feverish swamp he calls his brain, that the murdered census worker in Kentucky was a pedophile?

    Dan Riehl, who fantasized about beating up a bunch of pubescent black kids on a bus because they were talking loudly about Obama.

    You need better, less insane, sources.

  • spob

    Ad hominem. Riehl’s post is all argument. Refute it then.

  • dadanarchist

    Riehl, as usual, has no point, nor any “argument” – what he has innuendo.

    I am asking you to check the credibility of your sources – Riehl obviously has deep-seated emotional problems. That you cite him as some sort of credible source does not speak well to your critical or analytical judgment.

  • stuartzechman

    Oregon JC:
    .
    It’s the Village justifying its own obsessions with sex scandal in moral terms, as if its pretentious and ultimately pedophilia-condoning to criticize them for their shallowness and hypocrisy.
    .
    I’m not being a puritan, just a news consumer who wants better from the press.

  • spob

    No point? Riehl’s point is that Media Matters’ defense is one of quibbling over the age of the kid (even though Jennings thought him 15) while ignoring the obvious issues with Jennings being cool with the kid crusing bathrooms for trysts.
    .
    It’s a very simple one. And it’s impossible to refute. Hence your ad hominem.

  • cfukara

    SZ:
    ” .. you’re getting a real thrill out of being “shocked” over the moral failures of others .. “

    I don’t doubt that the statutory rape of your kids and/or grand kids by any pedophile would elicit out of you any outrage – or what you call “a real thrill out of being “shocked”.” You don’t fit heare.

    SZ:
    ” .. Can you recall what Jesus said to those who betrayed a similar lust to judge…something about being the first to cast stones…? ..”

    May be you just got introduced to that bible you are waxing so knowledgeable about.
    A few lessons from now you will also learn “Render unto ceasar what is ceasars.” And our ‘ceasars’ have in place a judicial system that proscribes certain acts/behaviours and punishes those who stray – at times with the death penalty .
    Try as hard as you may, we are not going to close down our judicial system and release the millions in the jails into the community.

    And our legislators are not going to stop legislating even if many of them are felled by those laws now and then.

  • cfukara

    Come to think of it, god of the previous versions of the bible has promised to punish sinners severely when he gets back someday …

    Does it mean that that god – as presented in the bible (old testament) – is not guilty (as charged) of the proscribed sins and deserving of censor/punishment – as judged from the new testament?

    [Up with the new, burn the old in hell, eh?]

  • cfukara

    SZ: ” .. you’re getting a real thrill out of being “shocked” over the moral failures of others .. “

    I don’t doubt that the statutory rape of your kids and/or grand kids by any pedophile would elicit out of you any outrage – or what you call “a real thrill out of being “shocked”.”
    People of goodwill may wonder why.
    You don’t fit in the community of civilized people.

    SZ: ” .. Can you recall what Jesus said to those who betrayed a similar lust to judge…something about being the first to cast stones…? ..”

    May be you just got introduced to that bible you are waxing so knowledgeable about.
    A few lessons from now you will also read “Render unto ceasar what is ceasars.” And our ‘ceasars’ have in place a judicial system that proscribes certain acts/behaviors and punishes those who stray – at times with the death penalty .
    Try as hard as you may, we are not going to close down our judicial system and release the millions of jail inmates into the community.

    And our legislators are not going to stop legislating even if many of them are felled by those laws now and then.

  • stuartzechman

    cfukara:
    .
    You’re ranting incoherently.
    .
    Isn’t that the rightists’ job?

  • iggydwonderllama

    What he did was wrong. If Stuart, you, or I were in a position to prevent this from happening again, I would, and I presume you or Stuart would. But the fact is, we are not. Awareness of the fact that child prostitution in Thailand is a big human rights problem is good, but that’s about the limit of the good that can come from this. That doesn’t require expressing deep moral outrage. It’s not as if people need a reminder that this is wrong. Most know, and for those that don’t, it’s not due to lack of being informed.

    On the other hand, clucking about the failings of others can be a personal danger. It can lead one to ignore one’s own faults. It’s easy to fall into the trap of not paying your own sins, either because they seem smaller, or just of a different nature. Or even to willfully use it to distract attention.

    I’m not saying I’m perfect, or even especially good. I’m not saying shame on anyone. But I see this sort of thing a lot in society, and on the whole it does real harm. We’d all be better off if people spent less time shouting about their outrage and more time teaching and self-reflecting. In a situation like this, I’d ask you to consider what you can learn, consider what you can teach, and let the rest slide.

    Thank you Stuart and Friar Tuck.

  • stuartzechman

    Thank you so much for understanding the point of my commentary.
    .
    I was beginning to despair of being able to communicate well enough to make that point, and so now am slightly reassured.

  • http://thomasontracts.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/french-people-are-stupid/ French people are stupid « Thomason Tracts

    [...] October 9, 2009 · Leave a Comment I Guess They Don’t Do Oppo Research In France – Swampland – TIME.com [...]

  • cfukara

    ” .. cfukara: You’re ranting incoherently.
    Isn’t that the rightists’ job? .. “

    That reads like a generic line you have on file ready to copy-and-paste. Lets try your easy idiocy on you:

    SZ: You’re ranting incoherently.
    Isn’t that the rightists’ job?

    —-
    That doesn’t sound worthy even to you, does it?

blog comments powered by Disqus