Why God Invented C-SPAN: Grayson Edition

Question KT. Was he correct that the “plans” the Republicans were waving around during the POTUS speech were actually blank papers?
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He might have been incivil and shrill, but was he factually inaccurate? Do Republicans really care about universal coverage? What is the Republican plan to get us to Universal Coverage?
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It is fair in one sense that they are the minority party and they really don’t have to legislate, but be back benching snipers, but on the other hand, they had the majority and the White House from Jan 2001-Jan 2007 and I can’t recall a great movement in the GOP to try to figure out how to get uninsured people insured. Maybe I missed it or something.
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The plain truth is that they don’t believe that health care is a right. It’s an intellectual argument to make, but they have not been forced to make it, and I blame both the democrats and the press for allowing them to dodge the issue.
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It’s like a parent telling their kid that a nerf ball is too unsafe when the real objection is paying for it. It’s cowardly, but it can work without making them “the bad guy”. This is the party of “responsibility”? Really?

The papers they were holding do not appear to have been blank, as evidenced by these photos, but I was not in the Chamber that night and don’t know what was on them:
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389×6507431
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There have been a few proposals advanced by individual Republicans, including this one that I wrote about in May:
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1900041,00.html
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And of course, they have offered hundreds of amendments in the five different committees that have undertaken to write health care legislation. But I think it is fair to say that their overall approach–at least recently, after I wrote that initial story–has been to say no. The lone exception is Olympia Snowe, who (as I wrote last week) has been involved in heavy negotiations that have made her influential in shaping the Senate Finance Committee bill. You can see what she has done here:
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http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1925829,00.html

What is that giant book that the woman behind Grayson is writing in (second video)? Something that thick must be the official BS log of the House.

Wish he hadn’t said “Holocaust in America.” Until that last moment, he owned and he won. That toxic metaphor ruined it, and gave a soundbite that will no doubt be the talk of the cable news circuit and will drown out the remarkably sensible things he said before.

KT:
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This Representative Grayson has been throwing around a few incredible numbers, such as “44,000 deaths per year due to lack of insurance” and terms like “holocaust”. He’s cited some kind of study in support of these claims.
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Are these assertions true?
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Do over 44,000 Americans die unnecessarily every year because of our health care system and its lack of private insurance coverage for so many people?
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Is there really a holocaust going on every year?

If over 40,000 of our fellow Americans are dying every year because of a system that effectively kills them, that’s a holocaust.
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What other word is there that describes such a situation…genocide is too large of a scope…what other word is descriptive, yet more appropriate?
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…And why is the word “holocaust” “toxic”, anyway?
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What moral ground could possibly be lost using the small-h word “holocaust” to describe tens of thousands of innocent American deaths?
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Wouldn’t that sort of hyper-sensitivity be…well, inappropriate itself, given the gravity of the circumstances?

There is indeed such a Harvard study, recently released, but I am not expert enough to assess their methodology:
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http://www.harvardscience.harvard.edu/medicine-health/articles/new-study-finds-45000-deaths-annually-linked-lack-health-coverage
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but I think sacoharry is right as to what is going to dominate the cable coverage. what does it take to merit the term “holocaust”? and does neglect of a basic need equate to genocide, which is the frame of reference in which we have come to think of the term? so the question is whether grayson has undercut the power of his argument by using a term that is so fraught. we’ll know in a few news cycles.

It’s too bad that acts such as this are required to get the media’s attention on the fact that the Republicans do seem to be missing something very important, a concrete, alternative plan, to go along with all their obstructionism. But I suppose the media has been too busy trying to kill the public option, and demonize the Left, to notice.

Closest comparison I could think of was whether it was appropriate to use the term “holocaust” in reference to famine. I googled the two words together, and found that it is frequently done.

Think Progress has a nice piece on this, ending with a clip of Grayson in “The Situation Room” enduring conventional wisdom and concern trolling by the pundit panel. But more than holding his own against people who are ever so concerned that he might have ruffled the liddle feelings of those poor republicans who have accused Dems of unimaginable atrocities as a matter of course.

Grayson stands by criticism of Republican plan: ‘I would like to apologize to the dead.’

OT. KT, I’m having dinner tomorrow night with a gentleman who worked at TIME for many years. Do you remember Douglass Lea?

There is indeed such a Harvard study, recently released, but I am not expert enough to assess their methodology:
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KT-has Glenn Beck had a chance to review the Harvard study? I’m sure if it’s flawed he can certainly figure it out and connect the dots for us.

i don’t think i ever knew him. but then, those of us in the frontier outposts don’t always get to know as many people as we should.

By the way I think Grayson should make the cover of this magazine for this performance.

Kudos, Rep. Grayson. But what reprimand? Do the R’s control the House? Not anymore, so why pretend to apologize, which he didn’t. Enough said …and kudos to YOU, KT for this. There may be media pearl-clutching but I disagree about the impact, especially after the RW barbs hurled at Obama. This will only be an issue if the corporate media decides to create one (see index Prophecy, Self-Fulfilling) …this is as close as I’ll come to the Dark Side, oh well.
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Looking at bright side of life (always), Amy’s last post mentioned Sen. Lincoln’s b-day. KT, do you or Amy have a video of the Happy Birthday bipartisan song (C-Span, cell phone, ESPN, Lifetime Movie Network, etc.)? Now THAT happy coverage would balance the partisanship (even if I love it when in a rare feisty mood). Thanks.

Hey look at what we are talking about:
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Does the Republican party’s stand on health care equate to a holocaust or does it merely equate to killing tens of thousands of Americans a year?
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That is certainly progress over the rest of the summer’s nonsense. Thanks Rep. Grayson.
Just think of how productive our debates would have been if Democrats would have told Republicans to stick it when John Kerry inartfully told a joke in 2006 (http://is.gd/3PAzR) or when Dick Durbin rightfully pointed out that torturing prisoners was Nazi sort of stuff(http://is.gd/3PAGY).

KT:
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Thank you so much for responding to commentary!
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I will go read the documentation link that you’ve so helpfully provided, to fact-check Rep Grayson’s claims against the report, and to evaluate the report itself.
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With respect to:

…what does it take to merit the term “holocaust”? and does neglect of a basic need equate to genocide, which is the frame of reference in which we have come to think of the term?

, that’s a great question.
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I wonder if 44,000 Americans were all starving to death every year, would that rise to the level of “holocaust”?
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If systemic mass starvation didn’t warrant the term, then wouldn’t reasonable people tend to conclude that the term had somehow lost its common meaning?
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If Rep Grayson’s claims check out, and yet we are now somehow unable to use a previously adequate word to describe the horror normal folks would feel at learning of the situation, then wouldn’t political reporters covering the outcome of Grayson’s “apology” be obligated to report on why the term strangely failed to make his best case? Wouldn’t professionalism require them to more specifically define the term “fraught”?
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If the story is now about the use of the word “holocaust”, aren’t journalists obligated to explain exactly why Grayson’s in trouble for using it to describe 44,000 yearly American deaths?
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Is there something I don’t understand, KT?

I wish I had something smart to say. But this healthcare debate has just been so friggin stupid. From the media from which some have been trying, to the congress which really hasn’t. It really is sad. WTF? We pay taxes for this utter stupidity.

“but I think sacoharry is right as to what is going to dominate the cable coverage. what does it take to merit the term “holocaust”? and does neglect of a basic need equate to genocide, which is the frame of reference in which we have come to think of the term? so the question is whether grayson has undercut the power of his argument by using a term that is so fraught. we’ll know in a few news cycles.”
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I just don’t know what to say about this kind of thinking. Did you do a poll when I wasn’t looking:? If you did. Send it back.

break alert!
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let’s not get worked up over some dude calling 45k people dying a holocaust. we’ve heard worse this year with the media bringing a panel of ‘experts’ to discuss whether or not those folks had a point. i’ve heard comparisons to hitler, socialism, communism, nazi, fascism.
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just because a dem said it doesn’t make it any less shrill (and the dude looks like a repub). But just cuz a dem said it doesn’t mean we all of a sudden have standards and boundaries that ought not to be crossed.

At the same time, the RNC is paying for coup d’etat porn: http://is.gd/3PBCL
Weird that the outrage about this sedition isn’t filtering up as effectively about this is it?

I find Grayson’s grandstanding both repulsive & effective, & the fact that it is necessary to be repulsive in order to be effective is entirely the fault of the Party of No which has refused to come to the table in good faith.

One thing that is lost in the grandstanding is that those who are most vulnerable to our healthcare crisis are the middle class. If you are rich, you can pay out of pocket to save your life, & if you are poor the government will pay to save you (albeit often only when your situation becomes critical). But the middle class who have no insurance or whose “insurer” finds an excuse not to pay lose everything they have responsibly saved during their lifetimes so they can go on breathing with nothing to show for it. Most of our legal & social system is geared to serve the rich & help the poor, but the great middle class who are the real wealth of this nation are left to the whims of fate.

Our government has failed us, & none has failed us more miserably than the callous Party of No. Grayson properly directed his apology to the folks who had tragically earned it. To apologize to Republicans would be grotesque.

The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

But just cuz a dem said it doesn’t mean we all of a sudden have standards and boundaries that ought not to be crossed.
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Believe me when I say that I am asking a serious question when I say: What “standards and boundaries” are those?
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What do you mean?
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It’s one thing to say that this guy was needlessly hyperbolic, or that he was shamelessly demagoguing, but it’s another thing entirely to say that he “crossed” some boundary of some sort.
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So help me out and tell me what you’re talking about, if you wouldn’t mind.

Few things annoy me more than debates over whether certain words or phrases are “over the top” and require ritual apology. The inability to speak plainly and say what you mean often has dire and/or fatal consequences. An argument over whether the word ‘holocaust’ is excessive does absolutely nothing but dilute and diostract from a very simple message.
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I’m actually more concerned about the methodology of the study. We may recall that Lancet published a study of ‘excessive’ Iraqi deaths caused by the war that was shrilly and eventually effectively attacked by the right wing. Even to this day, most commentators use the phrase “tens of thousands” when discussing Iraqi civilian casualties. One hope the Harvard study doesn’t suffer from a similar fate.

I also saw him (via Digby) on the “situation room.” It’s so incredibly refreshing to see a dem showing more than transitory spine. Discounting, of course, that the corp-o-dems are still the biggest obstacle to reform. The even more courageous act would be to expand the scope of his attack against Balk-us and co.

On another note, I find KT’s take on this rather interesting:

“so the question is whether grayson has undercut the power of his argument by using a term that is so fraught. we’ll know in a few news cycles.”

Meaning, a la the situation room, when some establishmentarians gather and decide if Grayson crossed the line? When they swoon over that most tantalizing of fruits, false equivalence (he’s the same as Sarah!!!), the lack of civility or bipartisan kissypoo in our public discourse. IMO, the power of his argument, the inherent truth of that argument will be decided by citizens sophisticated enough to see through a skewed media filter. Folks like us who see Gloria F’ing Borger and co. clutching their hankies b/c someone’s stirring the pot of cumbyyah. Why were those wankers so outraged by his language while they seem simultaneously unmoved by the real suffering he’s alluding to, suffering they wouldn’t recognize if it was airdropped into their CNN studio.

BTW, really, Harvard!? Bastion of intellectualism, scientific studies, come now, that’s so passe’

Dude, it’s our fault, too, not just the Villagers’.
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We let this “toxic language” sh*t get ridiculous between ourselves.

Kevin Drum talked about this last week–climate change fits into the same template:

“Politico’s Glenn Thrush talks to Republican congressman Eric Cantor about the lack of a GOP healthcare plan 100 days after they promised to provide one:

‘In my sit down with Cantor earlier this week, he pointed to a more nuanced approach — offering a “pretext” rather than a proposal — eschewing the kind of sweeping, vague alternative that earned the party such ridicule when they rolled out their alternative budget in March.’

I think Cantor needs to look up “pretext” in the dictionary before he uses it again. It’s actually completely appropriate in this case, but probably not in the way he was hoping to get across.

Amusing cheap shops aside, Cantor’s problem is obvious: He can’t provide a full-scale Republican plan because it’s simply not possible to provide universal coverage without the government taking a big role in things. So he’s stuck. Ditto for things like climate change, which for some reason I was reminded about by this post from libertarian Matt Welch. I mean, suppose you accepted that climate change was both real and catastrophic. What options would you have if you insisted on sticking solely to free market principles? Beats me. Hell, it’s hard enough to address even if you don’t. But that’s where we are these days: an awful lot of our most pressing problems simply can’t be solved unless you accept that the government has to be involved. So conservatives are stuck.”

SZ, could you elaborate?

jcapan, the CNN clip is priceless. I really needed for something to lift my spirits after watching Baucus and Company today.
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I will remember Wolfe and Gloria more than the “holocaust”.

Yes, Caro! It’s just so unhelpful to the sound, reasonable debate we’ve come to know and love when someone speaks up for reality. I liked how he said he’d only been on the hill for 8 mo’s. Kind of like ‘I’m sorry I haven’t learned all the b-s platitudes that are linguistic currency here in babylon.’
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What’d be really great is if Grayson started a trend among progressives on the hill. Hmmm, what would we call it? Truthtelling has a certain ring to it. Calling b-s on the oligarchs? Civlility at this pt. in the game is like wielding a butter knife in the face of the establishment’s howitzer.

Had it been a Republican who said (accurately) that the socialized medicine scheme of Obama and the Party of Death (i.e., the Democrat party) promoted death (see abortion, euthanasia, government run death panels, rationed medical care, particularly for those deemed undesirable, unfit, etc., …) you could safely bet your last penny that Karen Tumulty and Time magazine would not have celebrated what was said by such a Republican like Tumulty and Time magazine are celebrating what this leftist loon and pink tie wearing fairy named Grayson said.

I gotta say please, please, please Republicans, throw another temper tantrum over the use of the word holocaust.
Every day Alan Grayson is on TV instead of one of the Lieberdems or their enablers is a win for Democrats and for America.
Maybe with enough coverage they will start asking him about his forays into fighting the crooks at Haliburton or Goldman Sachs.

Someone has a man crush!

(It’s me.)

And also, if we really want to talk about public figures saying dramatic things, let’s talk about John Perry calling for a military coup of Obama’s Presidency over at Newsmax:

America isn’t the Third World. If a military coup does occur here it will be civilized. That it has never happened doesn’t mean it wont [sic]. Describing what may be afoot is not to advocate it….
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Imagine a bloodless coup to restore and defend the Constitution through an interim administration that would do the serious business of governing and defending the nation. Skilled, military-trained, nation-builders would replace accountability-challenged, radical-left commissars. Having bonded with his twin teleprompters, the president would be detailed for ceremonial speech-making.
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Military intervention is what Obama’s exponentially accelerating agenda for “fundamental change” toward a Marxist state is inviting upon America. A coup is not an ideal option, but Obama’s radical ideal is not acceptable or reversible.

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http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_09/020180.php

jcapan, I wish he was in the Senate FInance committee championing Rockefeller who is calling out all the awful things in that bill, but who is such a gentleman and doing it very quietly he is not attracting the news media to look into what he is saying.
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You are right. They completely ignored when that white supremacist lady Rep. Foxxx said Democrats were going to kill old people.

Well, then, at least we’re clarifying the difference between something that “dominates cable coverage” and something that is newsworthy.

This whole experience (HCR) has proved both the inefficacy of the health care system and the toxic incompetence of popular “news” media. I’m not sure which is more sickening.

As I pointed out above, paid for by the Republican National Committee.

One dictionary definition of holocaust: “any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life” so I’d say Grayson is pushing it, but I think he knew exactly what he was doing. Pretty cool that he got in a dig on abortion too.

I think sacoharry is right as to what is going to dominate the cable coverage

Something irrelevant and trivial is going to dominate cable news? I’d say that’s a safe bet.

The Christian Science Monitor’s Vote Blog has a new profile on Grayson –
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/09/30/for-alan-grayson-a-liberal-rebel-die-quickly-was-tame/
(OT, but the preceding post introduces us to Sarah Palin’s biographer / spell check)

Good God! Who let someone with brains and balls into the House of Representatives?

Oh noes! Grayson said “holocaust.” Maybe Grayson will be back for another “apology” tomorrow.

“Dear Republicans, I am sorry that you are all such venal, incompetent liars.”

BTW, I think it says quite a bit about how sincere Republicans are in their criticism of the Wall Street bailouts, government waste, etc. that they now want to go after Grayson (and, make no mistake, this was simply the first shot at discrediting someone who is clearly an irritant to GOP backers.)

Here is a guy who, in his private-sector career went after corporations defrauding the government. Now Grayson wants to question the Bush and Obama administrations’ coziness with large corporations and the use of the U.S. Treasury for the benefit of special interests.

Why isn’t this guy a GOP hero? Where is the “Obama wants to take over the banks!” crowd? Shouldn’t they be asking why more Democrats aren’t like Grayson? Shouldn’t they be welcoming a Democrat who, like a classical conservative, remains skeptical of the federal government’s actions? Why, instead, is he about to get swiftboated — likely with the assistance of Democratic leadership?

How your village thinks:
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Mike Huckabee tossed a hand grenade into the debate over who’s politicizing Ted Kennedy’s death Thursday morning when he told his radio audience that under Obamacare, Kennedy would be told to “go home to take pain pills and die.”
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Which Democrat will toss it back first?
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Will any Republicans jump on it by challenging Huckabee head-on?
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One thing’s for sure: by joining the debate in this time in this way, Huckabee is showing how determined he is not to be outmaneuvered by Sarah Palin in the early 2012 bidding for the GOP’s conservative base
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How will Mitt Romney respond?
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-George Stephanopoulos
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Two things. Cheerleading and insitigation. Notice no mention of over the top here.
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http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/08/death-panels-and-the-politics-of-death.html

Norman Mineta’s testimony before the 9/11 Commission is “why God invented C-SPAN”:

http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2008/12/18/clock-stoppers/

Watched the video of Grayson last night and found myself wondering if this was the tipping point where a true debate on healthcare might be forced. And I have two hopefully concise points and apologies if anyone else has made them before and better.
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1. There is no effin’ way I’m going to concede moral high ground to any Republican wrt inflammatory language. Period.

2. The real proof about whether Republicans are serious about participating meaningfully in the HCR debate is the whip count, not any window dressing “plans” they may offer. Will any Republicans in the House vote in favor of HCR? Probably not. Will any Republicans in the Senate for for any version of HCR? Maybe one. Even after Max Baucus has given them virtually everything they asked for. That is nothing but obstruction, plain and simple, and good for Grayson for calling them out.

“but I am not expert enough to assess their methodology”

Does it matter whether you’re an expert or not? You’re a reporter for Time magazine. Don’t you value your own status? Why not pick up the phone, call one, and report the findings in terms that even you and your readers can understand? Is that so hard? Wouldn’t that be more useful to your readers? Just askin’.

But thanks to Mr. Grayson it’s all been simplified to this:
Choose one from the below:
A) Pull the plug on Granny.
B) Don’t get sick, but if you do, die quickly.

All I have to say is, Granny, thanks for the pancakes, and it’s been nice knowin’ ya. Bye-bye. zzzzztt!

Oregon JC:
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…elaborate…
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Remember this gem in liberal discourse?

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/23/1058940.aspx

“But I think it is fair to say that their overall approach–at least recently, after I wrote that initial story–has been to say no.”

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How can you say you THINK it is fair to say, when you have not even interviewed or discussed a potential Republican plan with any Republican except Olympia Snowe, Karen?
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My God you people are simply amazing in your LIES and spin of the Democrat talking points. Simply amazing. It is no wonder that most Americans feel that they can no longer trust news outlets like TIME, CNN and the New York Times.

Finally a Congressman that will take on the GOP lies with actual facts about the amount of Americans who die each year without health insurance. The number is unacceptable in any country. He is right, the Dems actually have a plan to fix this and not put it on the back burner like the GOP has done for the past 8 years. Who should be held responsible for these deaths?

You might have a case, pierogie, if what Grayson alludes to as the Republican plan as simply “Go home and die” was the truth.
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However Republicans have been requesting many admendments to the HCR debate, all of which are simply shot down by the Democrat majority.
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Then the Democrats roll out these big signs that say:

Republican Plan: “Die Quickly”.

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This is how rational discourse is completely turned off. This is why we shall never see any form of health care reform in our lifetime, because the Democrats want reform to be their way, or its the highway. But, at this time that is what they can do, they have the majority at the moment.
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But, soon we shall have elections, in about 1 year. Time will then tell if Democrats made the right choices to exclude Republicans from this debate, and the American voter believes that they should retain control.

Your comment about the whip count reminded me: it is the one year anniversary of Republicans crying that they voted against the Bush Bailout because Nancy Pelosi was mean to them in a speech.
http://crooksandliars.com/2008/09/29/shorter-house-gop-we-killed-the-bailout-bill-because-pelosi-hurt-our-feelings
I urge everyone to watch this today for a good laugh. They are the same clown-bagging, one-trick-pony, crybabies now as they were then.
I predict they are going to now claim they were really, really, close to not obstructing health care reform, but they can’t now ‘cuz their widdle feewings are hurt.

I look at it like this:
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The schoolyard bully takes Wee Willy’s lunch money every day for years.
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Finally, Wee Willy decides that he’s gonna buff up at the local gym. He works out, biding his time, all the while reminding himself that his day will come. He wears clothes that disguise his growing physique.
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Wee Willy is wee no more:
He’s a 215 lb heavyweight with lightning reflexes and a punch to die for.
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Here comes Mr. Schoolyard bully now.
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“Give me your lunch money!” he says.
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Pop! Smack! Pow!
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The principal comes running out, and sees Wee Willy standing over the bully, and the bully cries out:
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“It was him! He hit me!”
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The principal, who moonlights as a personal trainer at the gym says to Wee Willy:
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“Willy, go ahead and hit him again. I’m turning my back so I don’t see anything.”
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And then he walks off…

I agree completely.

But we all know why the Dems won’t do “tort reform” . . . . they don’t wanna tick off their trial lawyer buddies . . . .

Here’s San Fran Nan’s response:
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http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/10/01/us/politics/AP-US-Pelosi-Harsh-Rhetoric.html?_r=1&ref=global-home
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What a partisan hack.

He was absolutely right and should be aplauded for having the courage to call the Republicans out on their worthlessness. The word holocaust has been used since the 18th century to refer to the violent deaths of a large number of people so although their deaths were not violent it was still a good description of the needless deaths due to no insurance. We just want the same government provided healthcare that Congress and the Senate have. That’s all, I mean after all they work for us, or do they?

(Yeesh, i thought this thread had died),
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Whip count, Rusty. Whip count. Dems could pass every last amendment that Republicans asked for and you and I both know that Republicans would still not vote for passage of the the final bill no matter how awful it becomes. So Grayson is correct. The GOP plan is indeed “Die Quickly.”
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And speaking of rational discourse, Lindsey Graham finally stood up and acted like an adult. I’m sure he will get called out roundly in the Wingnutosphere.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/sen-graham-calls-beck-a-c_n_306434.html
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Maybe it was Newsmax calling for a coup that finally forced him to realize that he and his colleagues are playing with fire.
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Now as for your 2010 election hopes I will say this. If the Dems refuse to take yes for an answer and fail to pass a strong HCR plan with a public option, they may well get shellacked in 2010 and they will deserve it. If Dems find a spine and pass the kind of healthcare reform that clear majorities in the country want, i.e., one with a robust public option, they will regain the momentum they had in 2008.

@pafro: You’ve made the perfect case in point. Nothing has changed in the GOP’s strategy since then.

[...] GRAYSON’S RHETORIC.  Congressman Alan Grayson is making a name for himself by using rhetoric that makes Joe Wilson seem like a statesman.  Responsible rhetoric is sorely needed on both sides [...]

Woah….GO GRAYSON!!!! The man called a spade a spade. Credit to him.

When are the Rethugs gonna STFU and get to the POINT? Which is that Americans need health care and it has to be a priority RIGHT NOW?

From Think Progress:

– “Last week Democrats released a health care bill which essentially said to America’s seniors: Drop dead.” [Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (R-FL), 7/21/09]

– “They’re going to save money by rationing care, getting you in a long line. Places like Canada, United Kingdom, and Europe. People die when they’re in line.” [Rep. Steve King (R-IA), 7/15/09]

– “The Republican plan will] make sure we bring down the cost of health care for all Americans and that ensures affordable access for all Americans and is pro-life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government.” [Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC), 7/28/09]

– “That’s exactly what’s going on in Canada and Great Britain today…and a lot of people are going to die.” [Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA), 7/10/09]

– “One in five people have to die because they went to socialized medicine! … I would hate to think that among five women, one of ‘em is gonna die because we go to socialized care.” [Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX), 7/15/09]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/30/mchenry-price-health/