More Bad Republican Form

[UPDATED with NRSC response.]

About a month ago, a Republican National Committee mailer surfaced, showing that the party had sent out a bogus “poll.” The poll asked recipients if they were concerned that Democrats would pass health care reform that would deny Republicans treatment because they were Republicans. This ridiculous and false notion, the mailer said, “has been suggested” by unknown forces. When I called the RNC for comment, a spokesman admitted the shameless ploy had been “inartfully worded.”

Now comes word, via Sam Stein at Huffington Post, that the National Republican Senatorial Committee is trying to fool Americans with the same trick. Their bogus “poll” asks:

Are you concerned that health care rationing could lead to:

23. Denial of treatment in cases where the patient’s prospects are deemed not good?
24. A “lottery” system of determining who will get priority treatment?
25. A “quota” system which would determine who would get treatment on the basis of race or age?

Needless to say, none of these things have been proposed in either house of Congress. None of them will pass. The mailer also suggests that the following ideas are “up for debate” in Congress over the coming weeks, including whether or not the government gets to:

• Pick who is “eligible” for certain medical procedures? • Pick your doctor for you? • Restrict certain medical procedures on the basis of age? • Put strict price controls on medicine and drugs? • Penalize you for choosing to see a private doctor • Seriously undermine private health care insurers who currently serve tens of millions of Americans?

In a just, fully functioning Democratic debate, there would be consequences for such fearmongering by a major political party. Texas Sen. John Cornyn, who signs the direct mail piece, would actually be forced to either defend the document, by backing up the claims with actual evidence that these claims are in any way relevant to the current discussion, or he would be discredited as someone willing to fool people–not to mention the elderly–for political advantage.

But this is not a fully functioning Democratic system. I have nonetheless, asked the NRSC for comment. I am told I will get a response, which I will post promptly.

UPDATE: Brian Walsh a spokesman for the NRSC did call me back, and defended the mailer, not as a description of any of the Democratic plans, but rather as an open-ended musing on possible health care reform ideas. “It simply poses questions,” said Walsh. “In looking at it, it doesn’t say definitely what the president’s health care plan is.” Walsh added that no one knows what the final Obama health care legislation might contain. “He has not put forward legislative text,” he said. “We have no idea what the Democratic bill is going to look like.”

So in other words, Walsh is maintaining that the most alarming parts of the faux poll do not describe anything that Democrats or Obama has proposed, but rather describe things that could still be proposed at some point in the future to surprise everybody. Needless to say, it is rather unlikely–call it completely inconceivable–that Obama or Democratic leaders would introduce an 11th-hour amendment to deny health care to Americans based on race. What may be more interesting is the tactic at play. This is another version of a “The Great Unknown” attack on Obama, a technique I have previously described, in which opponents choose to critique Obama not for what he is doing, but for what is unknown about his actions or what he might do.

UPDATE 2: Walsh emails to protest that if I am getting in the fact-checking game I ought to be bipartisan (post-partisan?) about it. And I am happy to oblige. One canard from Obama that Walsh points to was the president’s claim a few weeks back that his Republican opponents wanted to do “nothing” to deal with health care. Here was what Obama said in Cincinnati, at a Labor Day rally:

I’ve got a question for all these folks who say, you know, we’re going to pull the plug on Grandma and this is all about illegal immigrants — you’ve heard all the lies. I’ve got a question for all those folks:  What are you going to do? (Applause.)  What’s your answer?  (Applause.)  What’s your solution?  (Applause.)  And you know what?  They don’t have one.  (Applause.)  Their answer is to do nothing.  Their answer is to do nothing.

This is not true. House Republicans, for example, have a short document laying out some principles they would back to reform health care. It can be read here. It is not legislation. But it is also not nothing.

One other note about this sort of back and forth. Back during the 2008 campaign, I often got angry emails from the camps of Obama and John McCain whenever I wrote a post saying something they were claiming was either false or woefully misleading. (I got many angry comments as well.) Often the protests amounted to this: If you are going to point out one guy’s deceptions, why aren’t you pointing out the other guy’s deceptions? And they sometimes had a point. Both sides were being deceptive at times, and my job for TIME does not allow me to be a full-time fact checker, comprehensively scanning the horizon for each fib and every exaggeration. But that said, I also always thought that this fairness argument was also a bit disingenuous, since it suggested that I could be a less biased reporter if I just stopped trying to call out the falsehoods or, worse, that the fact of one guy’s deception justified another guy’s deception.

This sort of dialogue also, inevitably, led to another critique: If I pointed out that both sides sometimes deceived, I was somehow engaging in false equivalence. (A claim that was, I believe, misapplied last week to the TIME cover story on Glenn Beck; I would like to come back to this later, when I have more time.) It is true that at times, however defined, one party may engage in more misinformation than the other party. And to the extent that one party’s sins are claimed to be forgiven by another party’s sins, this should be pointed out. Some sins are also bigger than others, though this subjective call is sometimes difficult to make. But I have yet to be convinced that any of these reasons should stop me from pointing out poisonous misinformation in the political debate, even if I do it by necessity in a scatter shot manner. And so, I would just conclude by saying that Obama’s false statement in Cincinnati does not excuse the NRSC’s deceptive mailer. They are both bad form. Furthermore, the claim that I have just falsely drawn equivalence between the two deceptions does not change the original sins. In both cases, the utterances disrespected our public debate, something that happens, alas, with some regularity.

Related Topics: john cornyn, Barack Obama, Health Care
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  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Strong words! Thanks for putting the question to them. GOP lying, and MSM transmission of those lies, certainly works to make reform less popular. It is, of course, a scorched-earth policy that is catastrophic for American democracy (small “d”, Michael!). But that’s not something the party of Southern whites really cares about.

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    Thanks for this unequivocal post.

  • ohiolib

    I hope no one is surprised by this..

  • http://privcorr.blogspot.com/ wvng

    I am surprised by the clarifying harshness of MS’ post. Next, we need the same think in dead tree Time.

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    “It simply poses questions,” said [NSRC spokesman Brian] Walsh.
    -
    How many other Republican officials have had their dads pay off their mistresses like John Ensign did? Could Brian Walsh have done so? Might he in the future? How about his boss, John Cornyn? Or is Cornyn, being a Republican senator like Larry Craig and Lindsey Graham, more likely to have had a boyfriend to whom to pay hush money?
    -
    It would be irresponsible not to speculate, or simply pose questions.

  • stuartzechman

    Micheal Scherer:

    Put strict price controls on medicine and drugs?

    Is it not a true statement that this policy position is up for debate in Congress and represented in current legislative proposals?

  • nflfoghorn

    “…25. A ‘quota’ system which would determine who would determine [sic] who would get treatment on the basis of race or age?”

    Is that a typo or are you quoting directly from the RNC? I assume it was the former.

    In a just, etc., Democratic debate, the party would’ve denounced the crapola after a minute. We’re just too darn nice.

    “…none of these things have been proposed in either house of Congress.”

    The subject of the sentence is NONE, which is singular. Should be none HAS.

  • stuartzechman

    Sorry, “Michael” is your name…

  • nflfoghorn

    Read the update….so we can’t have HC reform because BO MIGHT do something that’s not in the bill for him TO do. Repubs’ alternative: nothing. Fear and loathing, fear and loathing…SS,DD.

  • http://twitter.com/michaelscherer Michael Scherer

    typo. my bad. fixed.

  • http://derekg.wordpress.com/ Derek

    “This is another version of a “The Great Unknown” attack on Obama, a technique I have previously described, in which opponents choose to critique Obama not for what he is doing, but for what is unknown about his actions or what he might do.”
    .
    In logic this is known as the camel’s nose or slippery slope fallacy, and perhaps, a straw man argument.

  • bobcn1

    Since these ideas were invented by the republicans, and since no one else at all has suggested any of these ideas except the republicans, shouldn’t these ideas be properly described from now on as the ‘Republican health care ideas’?

    o Republican health care idea # 1: To deny of treatment in cases where the patient’s prospects are deemed not good.

    o Republican health care idea # 2: A “lottery” system of determining who will get priority treatment.

    o Republican health care idea # 3: A “quota” system which would determine who would determine who would get treatment on the basis of race or age.

    I’m not suggesting that the republicans plan to offer legislation to implement their new health care ideas, but then I’m not suggesting that they won’t either. After all, they did do polling to determine how the public would react to their new health care ideas. I’m just saying…

  • pafro

    Even though Republicans have not suggested it, I have concerns that Republican proposals for health reform would result in lotteries where the “winners” would get prostate exams from Larry Craig in airport bathrooms as Senator David Vitter, dressed in nothing but a soiled diaper, stood by and watched.

  • mmchampion

    Nicely done. I will now spend the rest of the afternoon pondering about what those Republicans responsible for these mailers (not all republicans are this unethical) could do in the future.

    Everything but behave in a civilized manner I suspect…

  • spob

    Instead of worrying about polls, perhaps Time Magazine reporters ought to be worrying about this:
    .
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/21/did-obama-use-the-nea-to-stump-for-obamacare/

  • profbaltasar

    The lenght the Republicans will go to…the level they have sunk to…and they call themselves politicians?

    I live in a European country with this frightening ‘socialized medicine’ and the things mentioned in this article simply does not happen.

    I agree with other posters here, it is time for Time (pun unintended) to confront Republican leaders and ask them what countries this happens in.

    I suggest a term for today’s U.S. system:
    “Socialite Medicine”.

  • bobcn1

    Uh oh! Now that you’ve suggested it — it has been officially suggested. Now, no doubt, the next goper push poll will include a question stating:
    .
    In addition to the Republican Health Care Lotteries we proposed in our last survey, it has been suggested that the winners will receive prostate exams from Larry Craig… Would you be willing to bend over and cough for this?

  • bobcn1

    Oops! My comment #9.1 was meant to be a reply to pafro’s comment #10.

  • bobcn1

    The typical wingnut response to republican bad behavior:
    ‘Move along. Nothing to see here….’

  • rustyreturns

    Excuse me!
    .
    I do believe I read in an earlier post, there are “over 512 different Amendments to the Baccus Bill. Is that correct Michael?
    .
    If there are 512 Amendments, could you please tell us if you have read all 512?
    .
    I am guessing your answer is “No”.
    .
    Based on your “No” answer, how can you simply state that the questions contained in the Republican questionaire are not possibly true?
    .
    Facts Michael. FACTS!!
    .
    All you give is more drivel to an already chaotic plan. You simply shill for the liberals. Plain and simple, a liberal SHILL!!

  • rustyreturns

    When did TIME merge with NBC News? Between NBC News consistently providing Obama talking points, and the clear evidence that this site also does the same thing with anything related to Obama. I just figured that TIME was bought out by GE, and is now part of the big PEACOCK network!

  • spob

    Whatever, bobcn. Goofy push-polling is pretty low on the list of political sins. And I don’t recall Scherer getting all that worked up about Obama’s ads that suggested anti-Hispanic bias on the part of John McCain.

    Hijacking the NEA to push a political agenda seems, um, a wee bit more important.

  • lizziefromcanada

    Oh rusty, you are grumpy and mad. If you don’t like the posts, why are you reading them? You should read something else and calm down.

  • bobcn1

    Michael,
    Maybe, rusty is onto something. We’ll call it ‘rusty’s rule’:
    Until you’ve read all 512 amendments yourself, the republicans are free to spread all the bullsh*t their twisted little minds can dream up.
    .
    BTW – rusty, is there a corollary to ‘rusty’s rule’ where the RNC apologizes when it turns out that none of the amendments contain anything like the dishonest smears the RNC is pushing?

  • lizziefromcanada

    Rusty, you should read the update. The spokeman of the NRSC said so.

  • gysgt213

    Here are some amendments put forth by the republicans on the health care bill. Not all but some that add real value to the bill.

    Ensign 409 Transparency in Czars.
    .
    Hatch (R-UT) introduced an amendment (Hatch F7) to “add transition relief for the excise tax on high cost insurance plans for any State with a name the begins with the letter ‘U.’” The amendment would increase the threshold at which high-cost insurance plans could be taxed.
    .
    Hatch 511 Prohibits authorized or appropriated federal funds under the Mark from being distributed to or used
    by ACORN.
    .
    Ensign 543 Strike the word “fee” everywhere it appears in the bill and replace with the word “tax.”
    .
    Roberts 137 To prevent Medicare payment policies which discourage physicians from fulfilling their Hippocratic Oath to maintain the good of their patients as their highest priority, and instead encourage the rationing of health care.
    .
    Roberts 144 To ensure that if people like the hometown hospital they have, they can keep it.
    .

  • freeinpa

    bobcn1

    The typical wingnut response to republican bad behavior:
    ‘Move along. Nothing to see here..

    Sounds more like the liberal defense of ACORN and now the NEA..

    We have a President who campaigned I know ACORN I worked with ACORN we will be coming to you to set the agenda. Now he’s Sargent Schultz.. I know nothing!!!

  • http://elvisberg.wordpress.com Elvis Elvisberg

    Thanks, mmchampion.
    -
    It occurs to me, though, that my example is too reality based– after all, Sen. Ensign actually did have his dad pay off his mistress.
    -
    So maybe it would have been better to say, “how many Republican officials are trying to weaken America’s critical national health interests in order to make it easier for their avowed allies in al Qaeda to kill native-born American citizens?”

  • bobcn1

    freeinpa,
    Your argument to my pointing out that spob is trying to change the subject appears to be to try even harder to change the subject.
    .
    Do you have anything to say about the subject of the thread (the latest republican deception)? Anything at all? Does the dishonesty bother you? Are you going to give us the response we typically hear from 7 year olds (‘Oh yea…Well Suzie did it too!’). Are you going to respond to the subject at hand? Or would you rather just duck the issue by changing the subject?

  • spob

    Bob, there’s a big difference between some silly push-poll and the ACORN and NEA scandals.

  • grape_crush

    This is another version of a “The Great Unknown” attack.

    That’s a classic strawman argument, Michael; misrepresent the opposition’s position and attack that misrepresentation…usually a fabrication of your opponent’s arguments or a gross over-amplification of the weakest point of the opposition’s position.

    Typical of a disinformation campaign.

  • dollared

    Let’s try this: L-y-i-n-g. You can do it, Michael. Northwestern (or whoever it was) won’t rescind your degree.

    Also, maybe we could have a policy of not putting proven liars on our cover?

    Hmmmmm……do you think it would sell a lot of copies to put a picture of Boehner with “Republicans are liars – ignore them!”

    Maybe.

  • bobcn1

    Finally a right winger responds to the subject of the thread! Sort of.
    .
    spob,
    I suspect that if you wanted a reform bill to pass you wouldn’t consider a dishonest push-poll intended to deceive people merely ‘silly’. Does the dishonesty of it bother you? Do you condemn it and the people that are responsible for it? Or is it merely ‘silly’?

  • spob

    You know what’s funny. Obama inflated the numbers of the uninsured to sell Obamacare, but you guys point to a silly push-poll and call the GOP liars. Wow. Just wondering, is the sky blue on your planet?

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    spob stay with us here. I know this is uncomfortable for you, but this story right now is about lying Republicans. Now, as much as you don’t like to hear it, the party of the moral majority, the party that just recently congregated in Washington to celebrate its values voters has not a value or morals that the leadership of this party aren’t willing to sacrifice to win an election. When my nine year, who is not the least bit intersted who is winning an election, can hear this nonsense and ask what kind of people are these. then you know something is seriously wrong. Your people have no shame don’t get mad at us because we point it out.

  • bobcn1

    MS wrote: ‘Walsh emails to protest that if I am getting in the fact-checking game…’

    I can understand why the RNC is upset with Michael for ‘getting in the fact-checking game’? It does make their recent behavior look pretty despicable. How dare he let facts interfere with a political hachet job?

    They probably shouldn’t give up on Michael though. In the interest of proving that ‘they all to it’, he’s discovered that the republican ‘short document laying out some principles’ somehow equals actual legislation.

    Sorry Michael. That’s a pretty weak argument. And it’s clear from reading your update that even you know that.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    2 things.

    1: I still think that comparing Glenn Beck and David Brock IS an example a false equivalence but needless to say you’re free to disagree.

    2: The ironic thing is that if anyone has a right to complain about Obama’s ‘stealth’ nature, it’s progressives. He’s always stressed fiscal discipline and personal responsibility. He’s always stressed the importance of taking the fight to our enemies. The one place where he HAS shifted significanltly is on Guantanomo and civil liberties. Conservatives may fear that he doesn’t mean what they say based on nothing but their own paranoia. The ACLU on the other hand, has experienced all his reversals up close and personal….

  • bobcn1

    Thanks for the link. It’s quite good. Many of the techniques described in the document are employed here (and on other open forums) almost daily.

  • mmchampion

    May be too late to reply but no…I think you got to the heart of the equivalency debate quite nicely in your first post. Many thanks for being so eloquent.

    O/T – Stayed up late because a good and decent conservative who is also my brother is having surgery on the west coast and we’re awaiting results – therefore caught Letterman and Obama – what a nice change from the past. Not perfect Choska – but better…

  • marvyt

    MS wrote: “This is not true. House Republicans, for example, have a short document laying out some principles they would back to reform health care. It can be read here. It is not legislation. But it is also not nothing.”
    President Obama was right about the Republicans wanting to do nothing about health care. They controlled the Whitehouse and Congress for 6 of the 8 Bush years and produced NO health care reform. Actions show true intentions.

  • http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/party-of-lies-gets-to-work/ Party of lies gets to work « Later On

    [...] Posted in Daily life, GOP, Politics at 10:31 am by LeisureGuy :sigh: I very much wish the GOP would straighten up. Lying constantly is bad politics. Michael Scherer points out the current effort. [...]

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