Protests

From TIME’s Sophia Yan:

Ripples of protesters, thousands of them of all ages, lined Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House to the Capitol Saturday. Deafening chants could be heard, from “You lie, you lie!” 
echoing South Carolina Representative Joe Wilson’s outburst during President Obama’s Wednesday speech  to plaintive cries of, “Enough, enough!”

If Dems thought Wilson uncivil, their ears would’ve been burning at this rally. Organized by the conservative groups ranging from the “Tea Party” set that first launched protests at President Obama’s rate of spending in April to former House Majority Leader Dick Armey’s Freedom Works, some protesters claimed as many as two million people showed up — in reality estimates put it more in the tens of thousands. Taxes, spending and especially health care were the topics du jour.

Passersby snapped photos; some held their cell phones up to capture the sounds. A crowd of youths with anti-Obama capes swirling about their shoulders queued at Starbucks for their morning coffees. U.S. flags and colorful signs like “Obamacare Makes Me Sick,” “Joe Wilson
Was Right” and “I’m Not Your ATM” dotted the sea of anxious and rowdy faces. One defiant young woman waved a sign, “Hey Obamacare, Hands Off My Body.” Sporting a tri-cornered hat, a bell-ringer led a group of protestors in colonial costume calling for revolution.

When asked what brought them there, the 12 members of the Sargent family from Pittsburgh, PA intoned, “Socialized medicine!”

Reflecting Congressional approval ratings, which have sunk from a high of 36% in June to 29%, according to an average of polls by Real Clear Politics, several signs read: “Fire ALL of Congress, Let’s Start Over.” Pam from Columbus, OH, who refused to give her last name, was one of those simply mad at the system. “I’m frustrated in
 general [at] just the state of everything.” Party affiliation is not the priority, she said. The President and Congress “need to listen to the people and do what’s right.” Likewise, Timothy Stewart said he feels that “nobody is listening,” and called Congress “a mess.”

Several people accused the President of lying to them, including Lewis Taylor, 18, a first-year political science major at the University of Charleston in West Virginia. Taylor wore a t-shirt of his own creation, with “Impeach Obama” emblazoned across the back.

Most arrived by the busload late last night or early this morning. About 450 buses were organized by Freedom Works, according to Foundation spokesman Adam Brandon. Others came on their own: George Marcum, a grandfather from Dayton, OH said he drove through the night, arriving in the District at 11 a.m.

to make sure President Obama knew he sided with Wilson (if Marcum has his way, he’d have Wilson and former Alaskan Governor Sarah Palin on the 2012 Republican ticket). By the end of the day, protesters slowly began to drift away as hunger and thirst got the better of them but many assured TIME that this was not a retreat, merely a pause in their outcry.

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Related Topics: conservative, protests, Tea Party, washington, Barack Obama, Congress, Democratic Party, Economy, Health Care, Sarah Palin, White House
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  • gastropoda

    You’ve gotta be kidding me taking the organizers’ word for attendance. Two million is a lotta, lotta people. More than for Obama-the-enemy’s inauguration.

    Cooler heads seem to be saying tens of thousands.

    Bigger issue is that you seem to have sent a naive child to do reporting here. Embarrassing.

  • kristiia

    An example of some of the crazy – check out the sign in the first link and the shirt of the kid holding it in the second one.: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/more-reason-from-the-right.html http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/the-kid-with-that-poster.html

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    If Dems thought Wilson uncivil, their ears would’ve been burning at this rally.
    Leave it to Time to miss the point. It wasn’t that Wilson was uncivil. It’s that he was wrong on substance and therefore made an ass of himself. A bit more careful interviewing of the protesters might have yielded similar results. Half the people there aren’t really sure what they’re actually protesting.

  • notfooledtx

    With months of preparation and advertising – and busing people in they only got “tens of thousands” to attend? It’s a fail.

    Sanity prevails.

    Some of the rightie websites like instapundit are trying to pawn off photos from past events like promise keepers events in the 90′s as being taken today. http://rhetorican.com/2009/09/12/time-lapse-aerial-video-of-912-protestors/ – notice that the flag is missing from the pole – in the original photo, the flag is flying at half staff, that didn’t fit in with their lies, so they photoshopped it out.

    Lemmings on parade.

  • freeinpa

    If you look at your link without liberal deranged syndrome the flag is there and hanging down. And please keep belittling the protesters, call them names call them stupid. It will be that same liberal arrogance that is killing health care that will burn the majority back to minority status right quick.

    Paul:”Half the people there aren’t really sure what they’re actually protesting.”

    And you those this to be a fact why? Because anybody who suports a conservative cause is just dumb and ignorant? I guess everyone can’t be born with that brilliant liberal intellegence. And I thank the Lord eveyday for that. Heaven knows what a lousy place this country would be.

    Maybe liberals instead of just deriding conservatives should worry about things like why is the government handing out money to ACORN who are tax frauds, aiding and abetting illegal immigration, child smuggling and extorting money from low income housing. Or why is the National Endowment fo rthe Arts risking its tax exempt status shilling for Obama.Or why is Obama claiming everyone is trying to scare people about HC reform and then proceeds to use the same tactic to help his plan?

    If this was done by any Republican organizations your heads would be exploding.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Because anybody who suports a conservative caue is just dumb and ignorant?
    .
    Um no. Because 8 years of an unfettered Conservative agenda has resulted in disaster. I’m not so much a Liberal as I am an empiricist. Your Conservative dogma has failed to provide as promised but you keep wanting to just do it again and hope for different results. That happens to be a famous defenition of insanity.

  • freeinpa

    Paul

    Nice talking points but how do you equate an unfettered conservative agenda TO :”Half the people there aren’t really sure what they’re actually protesting.”

    One does not equal the other unless you believe they are just dumb abnd ignorant.

    And by the way speaking of failed agendas why ave all the socialist countries failed and globally more countries are cutting taxes and turning to capitalism? I guess they are stupid too.

  • http://www.twitter.com/jnsmall Jay Newton-Small

    Good point Gastropoda — I added in a clarifier. JNS

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    And by the way speaking of failed agendas why ave all the socialist countries failed and globally more countries are cutting taxes and turning to capitalism? .
    Because a proper balance between Business and Government is optimum.
    .
    Markets provide most things well. They cannot and should not be expected to provide everything.
    .

  • freeinpa

    And thse that the left did about Bush are so much more high brow

    http://www.pbase.com/kayakbiker/bush_signs

    Nice to see Andrew got out on bail in time for the protest

  • freeinpa

    Yes and too much government intervention into the markets caused their failures.

    Takeover of autos, banks, health care, oil, coal, housing loans , college loans and more to be named later. Beginnin gto smack of other recent socialist failures

  • stuartzechman

    Well, that’s liberalism, Dirks.
    .
    The proper balance, it is.
    .
    A separation of powers, as it were.

  • ilvoternew

    Oops !!

    “Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration’s health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.
    Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.
    At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as “tens of thousands.”

    poor poor teabaggers …

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Yes and too much government intervention into the markets caused their failures.
    .
    You have officially crossed the line and can be safely ignored. The lack of regulation caused the mortgage crisis and everything else we’re experiencing has flowed directly from the resultant credit crunch. If you aren’t aware of that, then you are indeed a symptom of the problem.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    A pathetic, thuggish crew o’ ignorant bleedin’ sheep!
    .
    Wha’ a crew o’ contemptable’, slimy, sh*t-spittle, scupper-sluppin’ cretins!
    .
    Tens o’ thousands? Th’ bloody screw worm ignoramuses don’t be sharin’ a single functionin’ brain cell amongst th’ lot o’ ‘em!
    .
    I seen bigger crowds wi’ th’ same level o’ intellegence an’ th’ same enthusiasm fer th’ same message o’ blind, ragin’ hate – Nuremburg – ’round ’bout 1934, I be b’lievin’ – .we all be knowin’ how THA turned out!
    .
    Yarrr!

  • sacredh

    “this was not a retreat, merely a pause in their outcry”

    I’m hungry so I’m going home.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Well freep, the fact is that most of these people ARE dumb and ignorant. That’s not a slam, but stating a fact. The few that organized this cadre of poor, slack-jawed Fox-watchers are cynical and probably smart, yes. But take this picture, for example: IMG_0061. Okay, “Obama’s Youth Militia”? That’s pretty stupid. The “Cure for Obama Communism”? These people have no clue about communism, even the kid aside.
    .
    You can’t conflate socialism, communism, and nazi-ism without being stupid and ignorant, okay? Socialism and communism are two distinctly different economic systems, different from capitalism. No one has even remotely advocated anything close to socialist, let alone communist. What’s that all about?
    .
    And then “Nazi-ism” is a political ideology, like conservatism, not a proposed alternative economic system. And then “McCarthyism” is on a whole other level, not a political ideology nor an alternative, but something like a smear tactic.

    .
    So yeah, these people are stupid, slackjawed Fox-watchers who willingly subject themselves all day long to propaganda and demogoguery, and feed upon their own wild-eyed, inchoate anger. They need mental health services. That’s just a fact.

  • sacredh

    They thought tens of thousands was really two million?

    More victims of public schooling.

  • sacredh

    I was really hoping someone else would have brought this up, but I guess I’ll have to. Wanna bet that most of the 450 buses were the shorter yellow ones?

  • deconstructiva

    …another tea party-esque protest, meh. That’s news? Like yesterday’s Coast Guard thingy? Much more interesting, if OT, was Serena Williams’ strange loss to Kim Clijsters at the US Open. If we wanted to copy-and-paste a parable, we could take Serena’s and Joe Wilson’s outbursts and create some sort of lesson about not losing your temper in key moments. It would be as relevant here as some of MS’s posts. Then again, Clijsters probably would’ve won anyway. Jay, why not write a story about this? Go for it. If you do, *please* provide the uncensored transcript of Serena’s remarks.

  • deconstructiva

    They didn’t use daycare minivans?

  • sacredh

    It was a teabaggers heaven by the hairs on their chinny chin chins.

  • Art Pepper

    OK, we’ll start by shutting down FEMA. You all in Florida and Texas can deal with it.

    We can also phase out Medicare. Socialism at its worst.

    Cindy McCain is calling for more Federal research dollars for migraine research. Just the kind of big-government program we don’t need.

    Next on my list:

    FDA – The market will sort out which parts of the food supply are tainted.

    NIH – If people want cancer drugs and flu vaccines, they can bloody well pay for the research themselves.

    FAA – The market will punish airlines that crash too often. Stop spending my tax dollars on this stuff!

  • nathan7777

    I like how you have nothing of substance to say other than “but people made crazy signs about Bush too!” So if you think all the signs about Obama comparing him to Hitler and the Nazis are correct and appropriate, I guess I’ll just assume you believe the signs about Bush being the Antichrist, a war criminal, and ushering in the apocalypse are just as true. Glad we got that straightened out.

  • sacredh

    It would have been fun to go to D.C. and make fun of the maroons, but I was listening to the remastered Beatles box set before I went to work today. I stopped and got some Chinese takeout on the way in. I wasn’t tired, hungry and didn’t waste a day on a field trip so I’m declaring myself the winner and going to bed.

  • sacredh

    Let’s substitute Lousiana for Florida and see how Opie from New Delhi likes them apples,

  • Art Pepper
  • James, Los Angeles

    Where were these dumbass people so worried about “Liberty” when the PATRIOT Act was passed? That’s when you *really* lost some liberty. The government got the right to rifle through your credit records and your library checkouts and your bookstore purchase without you being notified. Your travel habits. Secret wiretapping of Americans. Lots more of that too. But no, you rightwingers were rabidly IN FAVOR of the PATRIOT Act, and oh-so-willing to give up your “liberty” for safety. Bedwetters. Don’t march around Washington DC now crying about your g_ddamned LIBERTY.

    And spending. Where were you dumbf#cks during MediCare Part D? What about the unfunded 8 billion dollars per month for the Iraq War? What about those pallets full of hundred dollar bills they were shipping the the CPA to give away? What about those billions given to KBR to electocute our soldiers with faulty wiring? Not a word! Fanatic defense of this wild, irresponsible deficit spending by conservatives. And for what? What was the end result of that? Nothing for the American people, I’ll tell you.

    And government health care! Republican Congress passes a bill at midnight to force-feed a brain-damaged woman who wanted to die. Interfered with the most private medical decision a family can make. Made a brain-damaged woman in a vegetative state for 15 years a national political football just so Tom DeLay could “excite the base.” And you idiots now scream about keeping government out of your health care decisions.

    And all this protesting today does what? You are demonstrating for frikkin *Insurance Companies.* You know, PR work for insurance companies pays good — like in the 6 figures or more. But these morons are doing the work for insurance companies *for free.* Spending their own money and time to travel to Washington DC to demonstrate to help out *insurance companies.*

    Yes. Stupid, ignorant, looney, crazy. Insane.

  • James, Los Angeles

    Where were these dumbass people so worried about “Liberty” when the PATRIOT Act was passed? That’s when you *really* lost some liberty. The government got the right to rifle through your credit records and your library checkouts and your bookstore purchase without you being notified. Your travel habits. Secret wiretapping of Americans. Lots more of that too. But no, you rightwingers were rabidly IN FAVOR of the PATRIOT Act, and oh-so-willing to give up your “liberty” for safety. Bedwetters. Don’t march around Washington DC now crying about your g_ddamned LIBERTY.

    And spending. Where were you dumbf#cks during MediCare Part D? What about the unfunded 8 billion dollars per month for the Iraq War? What about those pallets full of hundred dollar bills they were shipping the the CPA to give away? What about those billions given to KBR to electocute our soldiers with faulty wiring? Not a word! Fanatic defense of this wild, irresponsible deficit spending by conservatives. And for what? What was the end result of that? Nothing for the American people, I’ll tell you.

    And government health care! Republican Congress passes a bill at midnight to force-feed a brain-damaged woman who wanted to die. Interfered with the most private medical decision a family can make. Made a brain-damaged woman in a vegetative state for 15 years a national political football just so Tom DeLay could “excite the base.” And you idiots now scream about keeping government out of your health care decisions.

    And all this protesting today does what? You are demonstrating for frikkin *Insurance Companies.* You know, PR work for insurance companies pays good — like in the 6 figures or more. But these morons are doing the work for insurance companies *for free.* Spending their own money and time to travel to Washington DC to demonstrate to help out *insurance companies.*

    Yes. Stupid, ignorant, looney, crazy. Insane.

  • http://www.peterhsu.org Peter

    There’s also a difference between shouting “You Lie” at a street protesting, and shouting in the chambers of Congress during a speech by the President of the United States.

  • nathan7777

    Freeinpa:
    .
    And by the way speaking of failed agendas why ave all the socialist countries failed and globally more countries are cutting taxes and turning to capitalism?
    .
    You make it sound like these “socialist” countries don’t have any markets what-so-ever. The “socialist” countries you speak of are not socialist at all; they are Social Democracies. And yes, they have vibrant free markets; not as free as the US but not centrally planned either.
    .
    If you want to talk about trends, the US has been trending towards social democracy ever since the revolution. With every new crisis in the free market, the people realize that free markets left to themselves will eventually result in a market who’s primary players will do everything to maximize profit and preserve their preeminence no matter the cost to society or the freedom of the market itself. Why do you think we have government agencies setting minimum standards on water quality, construction, air quality, and food safety. And why do we have regulations on the market like anti-trust laws that work to preserve competition if the market can do everything itself? Do you really believe the tenet of “the less government involvement the better” holds all the way to the bottom where government doesn’t do anything at all?
    .
    And care to provide some data to back up your wildly universal claim that all socialist countries have failed? And how are you defining a country as socialist? Any country with a higher marginal tax rate than ours? That would be practically every state east of the Atlantic, and last time I checked, the EU countries weren’t considered failed states. Or you could look at a country much closer to home: Canada. Their GDP actually had positive growth the last two months. Failed state, huh?
    .
    So, yes, I do consider the people who call Obama a socialist, marxist, communist, and nazi, misinformed and unenlightened. And if they are attending these rallies to try to stop a government take-over of healthcare, then they don’t really know what they are protesting against because no one is proposing a government take-over of healthcare. If they were, why call it a public option?

  • redraven937

    Exactly. That’s what makes comments like:

    Because anybody who suports a conservative cause is just dumb and ignorant?

    …all the more hilarious. Or incredibly sad.

  • bitterpill8

    My bad: an all white crowd, and ignorant to boot.

  • square1

    It would have been fun to go to D.C. and make fun of the maroons,
    .
    Ha. Ha. You misspelled “morans.”

  • freeinpa

    Keep talking guys. Pass an expansive heath care grab. Keep taking over industries. Tax away and spend on giveaways. You are the best advertisement for while these protests will succeed. You think these people are ignorant but you actually are.

  • freeinpa

    stuartzechman

    The almighty self important liberals have spoken so it must be!

  • freeinpa

    The cycle is complete. We have gone from degradation and name calling to throwing the race card. The liberal cycle is complete. A more preditable ending than a Disney movie.

  • freeinpa

    Wench:

    Time to walk the plank

  • rustyreturns

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uSNpfk4dbL4/SqzX-TviraI/AAAAAAAAAQc/MlU9rwZ_nZQ/s1600-h/Mary+Katharine+Ham+photo+of+capitol.jpg
    .
    There you go Art, as “Ten’s of thousands”, turns into Hundreds of thousands when the real truth and pictures are told.

  • square1

    She doesn’t entirely miss the point. For you and I, the point was that Wilson was substantively was wrong. For Obama and the Congressional Dems, the point was the incivility…for them.
    .
    Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, et al. don’t care if the rest us have to put up with Teh Crazy. Only when the madness invades their personal bubbles do they demand civility.

    In fact, the Dems almost validated Wilson’s complaints be (yet again) trying to appease him on the illegal alien language.

  • http://www.12stepgolf.com 12stepgolf

    Just can’t stand all this finger pointing and bickering back and forth, it is all the above. Everyone should be pissed. It is not one side or the other. The corruption of our “leaders” has been in motion since the beginning of the Republic, sad to say. Even during the Civil War there was some shading deals with the cabinet members.
    Today we have reached the breaking point. It isn’t healtcare and it isn’t the wars, it is the corruption that goes on. It is their addiction to power, that is their failing.
    I for one don’t mind defense spending, to protect and defend us so we can still go around acting like idiots-that is the only real job they are supposed to be doing.
    Corporate welfare or social welfare-they both suck.
    Earmarks anywhere by anyone is a travesty.
    Could they just pass a bill that is simple and correct?
    No one doesn’t want to help those who are in real need, but why do we always have to include other special interest groups and pay off somebody or something that is irrelevant to the issues at hand?

    Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.
    Alexis de Tocqueville

    The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.
    Alexis de Tocqueville

    NAZI=National Socialist German Workers’ Party, Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism.

    Communism: is a family of economic and political ideas and social movements related to the establishment of an egalitarian, classless and stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general, as well as the name given to such a society.(for james in la)

    But we do know of what we speak. Stick around long enough and learn and everyone will understand, WHY WE ARE MAD AND DON’T WANT TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!

  • michaelfury

    All that righteous sound and fury…

    And yet silence about this?

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/04/11/the-rest-is-silence/

  • michaelfury

    More New Yorkers signed this petition:

    http://michaelfury.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/make-it-happen-on-purpose/

    Where is your coverage, Time?

  • rustyreturns

    http://news.google.com/news?q=Photo+of+Tea+Party+Protest+Washing+9/12&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7_____en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=q-qsSoDiM8LJlAeGi9jeBg&sa=X&oi=news_group&ct=title&resnum=1
    .
    My first question is what the hell is wrong with the font on this post, and the 2nd question is who the hell is “Sophia Yan”? Is she your lesbian ulter ego, JNS?
    .
    I love all of these quotes from above on this thread:
    .

    Where were these dumbass people so worried about “Liberty” when the PATRIOT Act was passed? That’s when you *really* lost some liberty.

    Question is, WHERE WERE YOU???
    .

    Well freep, the fact is that most of these people ARE dumb and ignorant. That’s not a slam, but stating a fact. The few that organized this cadre of poor, slack-jawed Fox-watchers are cynical and probably smart, yes. But take this picture, for example: IMG_0061. Okay, “Obama’s Youth Militia”? That’s pretty stupid.

    Now that is a real smart retort from one of Swampland’s most favorite liberal DUMBA$$. DId You forgot about “Obama’s Civillian “Security” Force?
    .

    “Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration’s health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.

    Apparently this individual does not understand ENGLISH, or it is your second language. THEY WERE NOT PROTESTING OBAMACARE AS THE ONLY ISSUE, LIBTARDO
    .
    But again, I will ask the question. Who the hell is Sophia Yan? Did TIME not have one of their ACE reporters to send out to cover this event?
    .
    Is TIME like the rest of the MSM, CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN et al so far up Obama’s A$$ that they are fearful of having their talking points jerked away from them if they choose to run a story on this MAJOR protest?
    .
    As hundreds of thousands turned out in protest against this administration, the Democrat controlled Congress and for a call to protest the high taxes levied for entitlement programs, REAL protests are emerging against the Democrat Liberals, Progressives and Communitarians. (Of course no one knows yet what name they would like to be called).
    .
    This site is a big joke. TIME is a big JOKE, it is no better than the Department Store rag mags that sell stories like “John Edwards Love Baby”. Nothing more, and nothing less. TIME is long gone. Tabloid jounalism has replaced TIME here today.
    .

  • freeinpa

    nathan7777

    Neither are right, so if you didn’t complain then stop whining now!

  • rmrd

    The teabaggers were sharing the Mall with the National Black Family Reunion Celebration. The reunion is a two- day event attracting more than 500K annually.
    .
    http://newsticker.welt.de/?module=smarthouse&id=940951
    .
    Which crowd was bigger? Was there interaction between the two groups. Given that there are mixed marriages in the African-American community, was the Reunion crowd more diverse than the teabaggers?
    .
    http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2009/09/12/the-national-black-family-reunion
    .
    A reporter might have noticed the other event.

  • freeinpa

    Amen

  • freeinpa

    Every issue with he liberals is the same. Belittle, then name call finally the race card. Then they look back and say what happened The bus is leaving the station and the liberals are standing in front of it debating the size of the bus.

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/the-913-hangover/ The 9/13 Hangover « Let It Ride

    [...] said, I have a real problem with this “rally.”  Not because its backers are conservatives and I’m progressive in my political [...]

  • James, Los Angeles

    rusty’s head explodes:
    Question is, WHERE WERE YOU???
    .
    Our side was loudly warning you, urgently warning you dimwit bedwetting rightwingers that when you willingly give up your “liberty” and civil rights for “security”, you won’t be getting them back for 50 or 100 years, or ever. For that we were accused of being traitors and being “objectively pro-terrorist” and insufficiently patriotic to your imbecile leader George W. Bush.
    .
    But no, you rightwingers were rabidly IN FAVOR of the PATRIOT Act, and oh-so-willing to give up your “liberty” for safety. Don’t march around Washington DC now crying about your g_ddamned LIBERTY.

  • rustyreturns

    Definately freeinpa. Liberals and their side-kicks the Communitarian/Progressives can only debate anything by using their 3rd grade name calling. It is their only defense. They think it is a big joke, but the real joke is simply themselves.
    .
    To LITTLE james in LA. I do believe it was your exhaulted President that VOTED FOR FISA, was it not? I have no problem with the Government utilizing the Patriot Act Powers, but they also put on limitations, sunsetting it. Correct?
    .
    Perhaps you are afraid that the Government will discover and expose your other liberal ideals and activities limiting your favorite groups like ACORN, COC, NAMBLA, STORM, APOLLO and other far left extremist groups. Is that what you are afraid of LITTLE james?
    .
    People who are afraid of the Patriot Act simply have things they wish to hide. That is all, plain and simple. As long as it is sunsetted, and those limits are set. I have absolutley no problem with this what-so-ever.
    .

  • rustyreturns

    Very good comment 12stepgolf. Our progressive friends on here wish to “evolve” the Constitutions. To “meld” and blurr the lines between the “good” things about Socialism, Communism and Democracy.
    .
    They believe in the new, Communitarian ideals, a screwed up philosophy of a combination of all Progressive ideals from all forms of Government. Unfortunately it has been proven time and time again it does not work. It is simply a new twist on old ideas. Socialism. “Give them a little more freedoms individually, but keep the powerful laws, the laws that matter the most for the collective”. Same goes for their economic ideals, “Let them have their individualism to have a small business enterprise, but they will pay huge sums of taxes in order to support the collective”. Keep the large businesses and corporations under the thumb of the collective, make them Government owned.
    .
    Their favorite, “eliminate Wall Street and big Banks”.
    .
    Again, simply Socialism with a new name.

  • sacredh

    I just looked at all the signs and went with the flow. The size of the crowd was frightening. I kept thinking “If we could just harness all of that energy we could stop evolution dead in it’s tracks instead of relying on inbreeding to do the job.”.

  • ruthrawls

    “Maroon” is correct when used in this context. Also, “moron” is not spelled “moran”.
    Bugs Bunny will clarify “maroon”.

  • rustyreturns

    “no one is proposing a government take-over of healthcare. If they were, why call it a public option?”

    .
    No, not right now, but before the liberals were calling it “Single Payer”. “Universal Healthcare Insurance”. Meaning: GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE
    .
    You people truly amaze me. You think by simply changing the name, it makes it different or the outcome eventually will be different. But, it doesn’t LIBTARD.
    .
    Call it whatever you want to call it but eventually it will be the same result. Government run Healthcare, a socialist program whereby your government will ration and dictate what you can and cannot do so far as your health is concerned. PERIOD.

  • textee

    Sophia Yan and Time magazine allege: “some protesters claimed as many as two million people showed up — in reality estimates put it more in the tens of thousands.”

    “Estimates”? Whose “estimates”? Sophia Yan’s? Evidence provided by Sophia Yan to support her allegation? In predictable Time magazine fashion, no evidence. You have to love that notwithstanding the complete absence of any evidence, Sophia Yan alleges that her alleged, unsupported “estimates” are based “in reality”. ROTFLMAO!!!

  • 53_3

    Bless your order, we need more mollusks speaking out about this.
    .
    It’s those danged aplacophorans that cause all the trouble.

  • James, Los Angeles

    l’il rustykins,
    .
    I do not defend Barack Obama’s cynical, outrageous vote for FISA. I called, I wrote, I gave money to stop the expansion and revision of FISA and Protect America Act for 16 miserable months, me and the rest of the liberal blogosphere. WHERE THE F#CK WERE YOU?
    .
    I’ll tell you, you and your dimwit rightwing extremists were on Joe Kleins side, lying about what it said and what it did, just to stick us in the eye. We f#cking WARNED YOU that you wouldn’t like it so much when the Democrats came to power. Now, EAT IT.

  • 53_3

    Wow! I was at the ACORN office a couple days ago, Rusty.
    .
    You know what I saw there?
    .
    A couple middle aged ladies trying to help some of the poor in the neighborhood get housing. How positively evil!
    .
    A point to freeinpa, rusty, spob, and textee about the “race card”:
    .
    When you are going to Italy, who do you ask for for advice on how to conduct yourself?
    .
    How about Japan? China?
    .
    Right.
    .
    Then tell me, how is it that you think you know anything about Black Americans, or anything about race, when, in fact, the people you listen to preferentially have no contact and do not know anything about the Black community!?!?!?
    .
    Riddle me that, numbskulls…

  • 53_3

    False equivalency? Affirmative Action for Right Wing Extremists?

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Ah, freeper –
    .
    Ye need t’ quit tryin’ t’ whip yerself into a rabid frenzy, ye ignorant, hamheaded,self-righteous, sh*tswollen tick!
    .
    Ye’re nothin’ bu’ a stupid Becka$$ lickin’ scallywag!
    .
    If ye be thinkin’ ye can be makin’ me walk th’ plank, just go ‘head an’ give ‘er a try – I’ll knock ye back into th’ fetid slime ye crawled out fr’m wi’ me lily-white perfect’ manicured pinkie, an’ howl wi’ glee as ye be sucked back into th’ muck whar ye be belongin’, ye inconsequential piece o’ bum lint!
    .
    YARR!

  • 53_3

    It’s not the “race card”, freeinpa. It is, in short, and supported by literally thousands of photographs, videos, and statements from your peers, simply this:
    .
    An observation.
    .
    Freetopee, you know nothing about race…

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Thar were shrinkage!
    .
    We’re bigger’n tha’!
    .
    Really!
    .
    Yarr.

  • stuartzechman

    I think that I’m with you on this, Dirks.

  • stuartzechman

    Hmmm…

    can only debate anything by using their 3rd grade name calling

    who the hell is “Sophia Yan”? Is she your lesbian ulter ego, JNS?

    .
    I see…

  • freeinpa

    IQ 53

    What a surprise a liberal claiming to know everything about a conservative without actually knowing them. And great trend line analysis to take your one ACORN visit and extrapolate it to an enormous magnitude. Never mind about the growing number of indictments and new discoveries of fraud almost daily at ACORN.

  • 53_3

    I like where you’re going, Art!
    .
    Since they hate FDR, lets get rid of all this junk, too, which, incidentally, is a product of income redistribution:
    .
    1. Their highway system
    2. Their potable water system
    3. Subsidized salaries and facilities for rural health care
    4. The National Agricultural Imagery Program
    5. The Rural Technology Initiative(s)
    6. Their phone system
    7. Their irrigation system
    .
    Hell, Art! I’m all for it. I hand out my tax dollars (1/3 or them!) to these two-bit so-called “patriots” cum terrorists, and maybe, just maybe, we should give them what they want!

  • James, Los Angeles

    @pw
    .
    snicker. ROTFLMAO.

  • 53_3

    Oh, I know freeinpa!
    .
    You’re absolutely right!
    .
    I forgot to look more closely! They are all cheap plastic imitation blowup models controlled by this guy behind the curtain!
    .
    How could I have forgotten!
    .
    Evile, posilutely evile!

  • 53_3

    Pirate Wench.
    .
    You’ll need a magnifying glass, tweezers, and a pair of surgical scissors…

  • 53_3

    Buttsniffing?!?!?!

  • 53_3

    You notice how freetopee always resorts to rhetoric when he is cornered by those pesky facts?
    .
    We treasure them. He treats them like flies…

  • 53_3

    It’s ok freetopee.
    .
    We are leaving you behind.
    .
    Keep on “purifying” your movement. You’ll achieve Al-Queda status yet…

  • rmrd

    53_3 We’ll have to wait for BlackAmericaWeb or Jack & Jill Politics to cover the Black Family Reunion Celebration and observations of reporters and participants.
    .
    The DC PD may have their breakdown of crowd sizes. Hopefully there will be overhead photos of each event

  • Ivy_B

    Via jayrosen_nyu from Twitter. Elegant. @pbump finds a pixelated way to illustrate the difference between 70,000 protesters and 2 million. Take a look http://jr.ly/jrq4

  • Ivy_B

    Every person who attended those rallys as well as the rest of us should read Nick Kristof’s column today.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/opinion/13kristof.html?ref=opinion

  • 53_3

    Here’s a few tidbits. Note the pre-event estimate:
    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/09/11/managing-expectations-crowd-size-for-dc-rally-sparks-fight/
    .
    ABC on correction of crowd size:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abc-news-misquoted-crowd-size/story?id=8558055
    .
    “The demonstrators numbered well into the tens of thousands, though the police declined to estimate the size of the crowd. Many came on their own and were not part of an organization or group.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/us/politics/13protestweb.html

  • sacredh

    It…it was COLD, they were nervous, they were scared and besides…they’re growers, not showers. Size doesn’t matter anyway unless, well just unless. On the other hand (which wasn’t full), they weren’t worried about pleasing anybody but themselves.
    .
    There’s always a sock and a flightsuit if it comes down to that.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks so much for posting Prof. Rosen’s tweet, Ivy_B.

  • sacredh

    Ivy_B: If you’re going to stoop to using facts and math, I’m going to have to insist that you refrain from carrying misspelled signs or attending any teabaggers events.
    .
    Even that 55 gallon drum of viagra that Rush keeps at his house couldn’t have swelled that crowd up to the size they claimed.

  • sacredh

    Why hasn’t anyone expressed any sympathy for those 450 bus drivers? It couldn’t have been easy listening to 70,000 whiners asking “Are we there yet?” for hours on end.

  • sacredh

    53_3: I hope you’re happy now. I had to resort to google.

  • square1

    Also, “moron” is not spelled “moran”.
    .
    Says who?
    .
    http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-moran.htm

  • freeinpa

    IQ 53
    “They are all cheap plastic imitation blowup models”

    Spare us your personal proclivities but continue to ignore the obvious.

  • sacredh

    I hate to resort to quoting conservative philosophers, but “Can’t we all just get along?”.

  • freeinpa

    Because they bus drivers were thankful. The second choice was driving liberals to an ACORN tax seminar

  • sacredh

    You’re trying to capitalize on a tragedy. Where am I going to go to register my dead cousins, family pets and imaginery friends to vote now? I take my voting privileges so seriously that I vote several times in all three states in my area. The ACORN reference just isn’t funny. Some of us are devastated.
    .
    By the way, I voted 3 times in Pennsylvania in 2008. I like to think that one of my votes was pivotal.

  • rustyreturns

    Speaking of “incivility”, when did this start?
    .

    Many hosts and pundits suggested the Democrats’ reaction was the first of its kind:

    TED KOPPEL (ABC host): When the president talked about the bankruptcy of Social Security, there were clearly some Democrats on the floor who thought that that was taking it too far. And they did something that, apparently, no one at this table has ever heard before. They booed. [ABC, Nightline, 2/2/05; Koppel's panel consisted of former Bush adviser Mary Matalin, former Reagan chief of staff Ken Duberstein, and former Clinton speechwriter Michael Waldman]

    JOHN ROBERTS (CBS White House correspondent): At a couple points in this address, it looked more like the British Parliament than the United States Congress. I’ve never heard the minority party shout at the president during the State of the Union address before. [CBS, post-speech coverage, 2/2/05]

    JOE SCARBOROUGH (former U.S. representative (R-FL) and MSNBC host): After the Democrats booed and hissed, Republicans were on the floor saying, you know, we never once did that to Clinton. So every time he would talk about Social Security, the roars got a little louder. And they got behind their president. [MSNBC, Hardball, 2/2/05]

    BOB BARR (former U.S. representative (R-GA) and CNN contributor): It will be a very, very difficult battle as we saw by the unprecedented and, I think, highly improper virtual booing of the president when he simply said that the system is going to be bankrupt and the time is now to fix it. [CNN, Inside Politics, 2/3/05]

    JOE WATKINS (radio host and CNN substitute host): Did you hear it? Certainly not the polite protocol usually practiced when a president speaks to Congress. If a Democrat one day delivers a State of the Union address, I hope the Republicans won’t lower themselves to such a disrespectful level. I hope last night’s behavior by a few lawmakers doesn’t set a new precedent, that both parties can agree to remain civil, even when voicing disagreements.

    .
    While I am not condoning either party’s disrespect for the Office of the President in the forum of a Presidential address to Congress, a precedent was set long ago, by the DEMOCRATS. This and the fact that this speech was certainly and simply a political speech, not a Presidential address.

  • freeinpa

    Only 3 times? They would deem you a failure. Dead people and Disney characters vote more often than that through ACORN

  • textee

    I don’t know what “teabaggers” are, but can we draw any conclusion about its meaning from the fact that male fundamentalist homosexualists like MSDNC’s Rachel Mancow and David Sluster and CNN’s Cooper Anderson and female fundamentalist homosexualists like Keith Olberwomann repeatedly call the pro-America community “teabaggers”?

  • James, Los Angeles

    Sadly No! calculates that those poor drivers bused at LEAST 12 million pounds of wingnut into Washington DC. Let’s hope they bused OUT 12 million pounds of wingnut!
    .
    All paid out of the pocket of Ari Fleischer:
    *SAVE THE INSURANCE COMPANIES! NOW!*
    dumbasses.

  • rustyreturns

    Knock knock: “Who’s there?”
    .
    “3 Liberals, a Communitarian, Van Jones the Communist, and 4 Progressives”.
    .
    “I’m sorry, the meeting to rename the Democrat Party was moved to Wednesday, next week. Barack will be headlining in Las Vegas for the “Let’s just call it Socialism” DNC seminar and you can express your concerns then.”

  • 53_3

    Yes, I am, sacred.
    .
    At least, you changed your mind and decided to stick around.
    .
    That makes me even more happy. Except for when I get an opportunity to zing a wingnut. Almost, but not quite, as good as grazing the ol’ microbial mat with my radula…
    .
    Stick that up yer google!

  • 53_3

    The obvious, freepeethreeo, is spelled out in comment 22.4…

  • rustyreturns
  • 53_3

    It’s actually quite on target, Ivy_B:
    .
    Let’s say you are taking an aerial photo of 2,000,000 people. Increase the resolution to the point where you get spaces between pixels with people in them. Make a note of the resolution.
    .
    Now, take an aerial photo of the same area packed with 70,000 people. Do the same.
    .
    You will find, that the resolution needed to achieve the same effect is much lower, namely the size of the pixels will be 5.3 times the size needed to achieve the same effect. In other words, if you need 1 foot resolution to resolve 2,000,000 people, you only need 5.3 foot resolution for 70,000.
    .
    This is elementary remote sensing.

  • 53_3

    Because you froot loops went and called yourselves that during that first teabagging protest, which, well, uh, turned out to not be so successful.
    .
    Damnn. Zzzzzzz! Swat! Slap!
    .
    Those dammed facts! They keep buzzing around and trying to land on me! ZZZZZZZ! Pop! Smak! Whap!
    .
    GOT IT!
    .
    thud…

  • 53_3

    Let’s see:
    Let’s pack those buses!
    .
    450 x 60 = …
    .
    Can rusty do the math?
    .
    jeopardy.wav
    jeopardy.wav
    jeopardy.wav

  • emptysuit

    No Matter how many was there, the statement is the same, America is tired of OBAMA. MSM will play down protests against Obama. Even if there were 2 million protesters, liberals will never admit it. Who listens to MSM anyway.

    http://emptysuit.wordpress.com/

  • 53_3

    What do you get when you slam Rusty, Textee, Spob, and freeinpa together?
    .
    Aboslutely Nuthin’*
    .
    Eric Burdon and War, 1971

  • sacredh

    Thanks for the kind words 53_3, but I was only leaving for about 3-4 weeks while I worked on a project for my wife that I’d been putting off for years. Luckily I’m accident prone and cut my hand. While that’s healing I started working on a true labor of love (nothing sharp involved) that I’ve been putting off for 30 years.

  • 53_3

    Has anyone noticed that when the Froot Loops For Factless Fantasies try to rebut they use only FOX or their own blogsites?

  • rmrd

    This is OUR country. Palin and Cheney are big winners in GOP circles, but fail miserably when viewed across the entire country. Conservatives ran the country into the ground, that is why they lost the general election.

    The GOP ran the Presidency, the House and the Senate. The result … disaster.

  • 53_3

    “While that’s healing I started working on a true labor of love (nothing sharp involved) that I’ve been putting off for 30 years.”
    .
    Oh, no. Tell me you’re not. You wouldn’t do that, now would you? Do you realize what might happen when you finish? Did you think this thing through?
    .
    Just kidding. Good luck. I have a “labor of love” project waiting too. Give me seven more years.

  • 53_3

    That’s the part they don’t get, rmrd. Rusty is pining for the Sleeping White Giant like that parrot was pining for the fjords.
    .
    Trouble is for those Fascist Froot Loops, 11/4 wasn’t put on by Monty Python…

  • sacredh

    America is not tired of Obama. The right wing that was thrown out of office is tired of Obama. IF 2 million people had shown up then we might have been concerned. 70,000 people that lack the ability to count isn’t a reason for concern. They had their little party. They got hungry, tired, a little cranky and went home to celebrate the overthrow of the government.

    McCain’s President now and he wants healthcare reform. He went to to the same alien tanning booth that Boner used and he looks just like Obama. Support your President. Sarah quit the governorship of Alaska and is VP. All is well.

  • 53_3

    “Who listens to MSM anyway.”
    .
    Try the rest of America and the world, emptysuit.
    .
    You know. The world. That big blue round thing third out from that yellow G5 star? Yeah.
    .
    That one…

  • sacredh

    I’m a big Beatles fan and bought both remastered box sets. The Beatles left the singles off the albums (some nonsense about giving value to the fans and not making them pay twice for the same songs) so with the remastered collections, I listened to the entire catalogue and am including the single material on MY version of the albums.
    .
    Hey Jude, Revolution, Across the Universe and a few others are now on the White Album. Strawberry Fields Forever, Penny Lane and Only a Northern Song are on Sgt. Pepper. Paperback Writer and Rain are on Revolver and so forth. I’ve been in 7th Heaven. No 70 virgins for me. Give me one experienced woman that can fire a ping pong ball 10 feet.

  • apollyon07

    Just got Beatles rock band. It is a dream come true for me. Playing drums on Come Together- glorious.

  • sacredh

    Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should see my collection of Beatles memoribilia. I have hundreds of items and over 100 books including many long out of print. I also have a copy of the Let It Be movie. Try finding a good copy of that puppy. I’m not sure, but I think my better half got me a copy of Rockband: Beatles for Christmas. When I told her I was thinking of buying it she told me to hold off until after Christmas. She’s almost as big a fan as I am.

  • 53_3

    Wow. Wish I was on the shortlist for that version.
    .
    Apollyon07, is the Beatles like Guitar Hero? I’ve been hearing about it. About time they came out with something for us!

  • Ivy_B

    Interesting article on tort reform. In Missouri where it was put into place, Doctor’s premiums went down, but health care costs continued to increase.

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/59146082.html

  • sacredh

    Heigh ho, heigh ho, it’s off to work I go (listening to MY Revolver on the way). Damn, only a ten minute drive!

  • 53_3

    Score none for tort reform. Another conservative principle bites the dust.
    .
    It might be useful to note that we rejected tort reform here (WA), and the doctors that said they would leave are still here. We still actually have real doctors!

  • 53_3

    You slut!
    .
    Stop rubbing it in, already!

  • rmrd

    What tort reform doesn’t address is what the community standard is for treatment. If a certain imaging techniques is performed because that is what other physicians in the community are doing , then a given physician will perform that test.
    .
    For example, you could have a low suspicion that a person has a life-threatening head injury based on your exam, but the severity of how the injury occurred may lead you to perform an imaging study because if the lesion is missed, the patient could die.
    .
    The test is done because of the risk to the patient for missing a disease, not because you fear a lawsuit.

  • fhmadvocat

    12stepgolf,

    I can appreciate your comments, but the truth is the politicians only do what we ask them to do. Do they bribe the public using the public’s money? Yes!!

    You claim you are willing to spend the money to defend our borders, but do we have to spend so much to “defend” ourselves? There is no Communism other than China and Cuba and who would want to attack us? Considering we spend more on arms that the rest of the world put together, we could spend about one-third of that money for self defense. The truth is we spend most of that money for access to cheap resources, primarily oil. These are your tax dollars at work.

  • freeinpa

    “You have officially crossed the line and can be safely ignored. ”

    “I think that I’m with you on this, Dirks.”

    Please let me genuflect. The Almighty Paul and the Son of God Stuart have spoken. You arrogant pompous twits.

    The mortgage crisis was caused by an easing cycle begun by the Fed in 2001 in response to the terrorists attack to prevent, at all costs an asset deflation. And last I checked the Federal Reserve is an independent body.

  • freeinpa

    IQ 63

    Freetopee, you know nothing about race…”

    Unlike you who thinks race involves a soap box derby cart!

  • freeinpa

    53IQ
    And that’s why they have elections and if the libs had any sense they only signed short-term leases

  • freeinpa

    James

    Let’s have liberals kill another industry just like unions did to the airlines, steel and auto. Then you can whine and cry about starting another welfare program for people who put themselves out of business.

  • freeinpa

    A teabagger is the polar opposite of a liberal freeloader or in the venacular a d-bag

  • freeinpa

    Tort costs are only one factor in the cost of health care premiums. Check to see how much Fed mandates on states went up or union wages for hospital workers. There are all sorts of costs that go into health care premiums unlike the idiotic conclusion that the left has reached that it results all in insurance company profits. And we know how evil profits are!

    IQ53 I hop they have a lot of psychiatrists in Washington I am sure you could employ several dozens by yourself.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    LPN’s with 20 Yrs in peak out at about $22/Hr.
    Obviously if they were all making minimum wage, our troubles would be over.
    .
    Freep is right that Insurance profits aren’t the only problem and that reducing them won’t solve all our prblems. But holy sh33psh!^, his applying boilerplate RNC talking points about unions just proves that he (and many like him) have absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about.

  • Ivy_B

    The article I linked makes clear that tort costs are only one factor. However, it is so frequently trotted out as the Holy Grail in discussions I thought it worth having some facts.

    I was also amused by a physician who said, well the facts noted since reform were not good and he was sticking by the study done in 1996 that came to the conclusion he wanted.

    Keep those talking points no matter the facts and if the facts don’t agree, change the subject.

  • fhmadvocat

    James of LA . . . . . .

    You hit is right on the head! Where were all these protesters when Bush was stealing our liberty under the PATRIOT Act. I can’t believe one Conservative actually DEFENDED the PATRIOT Act on this board?! And someone wonders why the Teabaggers can be taken seriously!!

    Personally, this is the growth of the Randy Weavers and the Tim McVeighs of this country who have come out of the woods to protest.

    It is one thing to protest about how much money is being spent, but when folks are protesting about how Obama is going to take away our “Liberty”, you have to wonder where these folks have been for the past 8 years!!

    The PATRIOT Act was the biggest assault on our individual liberties since Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus and not a word from the Fringe Right in protest. Not a word, NADA!!

    Now they are claiming Obama’s economic moves have been failures. First of all, Obama’s moves saved the economy from going down the toilet. We were looking at a scenario that was the worse economic times since the Depression. Thanks to the moves by Obama (and Bush in the last months of his presidency) we are looking at the bottom of the economic crisis. It seems that they forget it took Reagan 14 months to get us out of the crisis of the late 70′s and it has taken Obama less than one year to resolve an even greater crisis.

    The banks are paying us back with interest, so the bank bailout, as loathsome as it was, was a success. It is too early to say about cash for clunkers, but we have more fuel sufficient cars.

    Chrysler & GM won’t be able to pay us back, but the loan cushioned the fall for many families.

    Obama said it would get worse before it got better, but since when do Republicans listen. It seems like their minions in these town hall meetings believe being the loudest makes one correct.

    It is a sad day when for Conservatives who used to have William Buckley as their intellectual inspiration have turned to Rush Limbaugh.

  • kbanginmotown

    @nathan: don’t forget to mention that it was that commie, “trust-buster” Teddy Roosevelt who got the regulation ball started a century ago…

  • ohiolib

    I wouldn’t say we’ve hit the bottom yet, fhm. We’re just not falling as fast as we were. And, if you were listening to spob a week or two ago, you would knwo that, when it comes to national security, the ends justifies the means for the scaredy-cat righties. They’ll quite happily sell their souls to keep the islamofascist socialist communist brown people out, but heaven help you if you try to keep military weapons out of political rallies.

  • dunedweller

    Was there a point to the protest? I heard 9/12 but that’s just a date. The post doesn’t explain it either… titled simply “Protests.” As far as I can tell there’s no clear message, other than a bunch of angry people who don’t like Obama. I drove by a little group yesterday holding signs and I couldn’t determine what their purpose was either.
    .
    The sad thing is these people seem to be protesting what every american should be protecting—democracy. President Obama was elected November 4th, 2008. He is our POTUS. He’s doing nothing more than working toward the objectives he was elected to accomplish. The objectives which compelled a majority of voters to choose him. If you were not in that majority—YOU LOST! Suck it up. Have the courage to let democracy and due process take their courses. Then base your opinions on *reality* rather than the rantings of shock-talk radio & TV hosts.

  • freeinpa

    Yes the union folks are just palin hard working folk looking for fair wages for a good day’s work. And whether you like the reality of it union wages, benefits and work rules have bankrupted major industries in this country and forced others offshore.

    Or try to get rid of a teacher with anything short of a murder conviction. But those are just RNC talking points that just happen to come from the facts

  • freeinpa

    And who is the intellectual leader of the left?

    Olbermann, Garofolo, Michael Moore, Bill Maher?

    Patrick Moynihan is rolling over in his grave.

  • freeinpa

    If other media attempted to do their job there might be other sources but unlikely since the reality run counters to their beliefs. Sucks to be a liberal reporter any more. You can’t get away with burying the news or giving it your own slant.

  • freeinpa

    Organizers told them they would get a free Priusand an Al Gore solar watch

  • nathan7777

    @rusty,
    .
    Don’t call me a libtard and I won’t call you a conservawacko.
    .
    No, not right now, but before the liberals were calling it “Single Payer”. “Universal Healthcare Insurance”. Meaning: GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE.
    .
    Fortunately for you, Rusty, liberals don’t march in lockstep with each other like the conservatives. We actually have a skill called free-thinking. Sure many liberals would love a single payer system, but that’s not what is being proposed. Obama doesn’t want a single payer system. If the public option was really single payer in disguise, do you think the progressives would be so upset?
    .
    It continually amazes me how conservatives will believe whatever they fear the most. If I told you that all the terrorists were just outside our borders with weapons of mass destruction and the only way to stop them was to take up your guns and storm Mexico, you guys would do it. Why? Because you’re so afraid of it being true that you have to believe it. Same thing with healthcare reform. You’re so afraid of a government take-over of healthcare that when demagogues and corporate lobyists proclaim the public option to really be a government take-over of health care in disguise, you all believe it. Try looking at the facts before you believe what you hear on Fox News.
    .
    I don’t know how else to say it. THE PUBLIC OPTION IS NOT, AND NEVER WAS, A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM OR GOVERNMENT TAKE-OVER OF HEALTHCARE. The public option is just that: an option. Period.

  • nathan7777

    You think Fox is the pinnacle of unbiased reporting? How am I supposed to take you seriously?

  • nathan7777

    Post some supporting facts please. A big reason why corporations are finding it hard to compete is because American companies have to provide health insurance for their employees while most every other developed country provides a basic level of health care through the state. This is a major factor in why Japanese and German auto makers can make their cars for less than Ford, GM, and Chrysler. So technically, it was conservatives that destroyed the American auto industry by blocking every effort at health care reform.

  • stuartzechman

    dunedweller:
    .
    Was there a point to the protest?
    .
    They believe a powerful story that they’re being told by a very effective messaging structure: that a soft, slow coup is underway, that their country is transforming into a totalitarian state, that their government is overrun with evil, and that their neighbors are blind or turned.
    .
    You can tell them all day long that Obama’s not proposing government-run anything, but the story says that millions will be duped by a ruthless state propaganda machine. You can tell them all day long to read the language of the legislation, or look at the facts (“What exactly is socialist about any of this?“), or listen to what politicians –even gifted, earnest communicators like Obama– say, but it’s like asking them to believe Saddam Hussein’s disclaimers about nuclear weapons programs. They will simply shout “You lie!“. You can’t have a debate while Invasion of the Body Snatchers is going on. If you try to reason, then you are one of “them”. Good people are identified by how wildly they are freaking out over the moral and existential crisis taking place in the soon-to-be-post-apocalyptic United States of America. A great deal of the potency of end-of-days political movements lies in the claim that it’s all happening now.
    .
    This story is a very, very important one for many people. It explains so much about their lives, and their world right now. It gives them meaning and purpose, and it connects them together in the service of noble struggle. It unifies them against a mythological enemy: us.
    .
    The movie that’s playing in their heads isn’t very different from what they’ve seen, read and imagined for years –decades, even. There is a vast popular culture in this country whose basis is the rightist fantasy. Its cultivation is deep-rooted, well-funded, strategically-oriented, and comprehensive. It’s also a genuine expression of organic popular will –a notion with which the left has a very hard time coming to terms for a number of reasons.
    .
    If we fail to understand the power of populist right-wing mythology, to know intimately who these people are and the story that moves them, we are at risk –perhaps great risk. We’re not at Radio Rwanda, but if one of their leaders were to be killed or harmed in some public way, it might start to get dangerous.
    .
    We need to listen very carefully to them, we need to stop reacting as if the point is to prove our superiority, and we need to start laying the groundwork for a better story than theirs to emerge from better governance than past decades have led many if not most Americans –even those not given to rightist fantasizing– to expect from their state.
    .
    Thanks so much for reading and considering this, dunedweller.

  • rose83

    You can’t have a debate while Invasion of the Body Snatchers is going on. If you try to reason, then you are one of “them”. Good people are identified by how wildly they are freaking out over the moral and existential crisis taking place in the soon-to-be-post-apocalyptic United States of America. A great deal of the potency of end-of-days political movements lies in the claim that it’s all happening now.
    .
    stuart, that really captures this phenomenon. I’ve found the “retro” nature of this quite fascinating, and I think there might be some lessons to learn from historically contextualizing Beck et al.
    .
    And I’ll take this as another opportunity to recommend Imperial Brotherhood by Robert Dean, which is becoming more timely by the week.

  • dunedweller

    Stuart,
    .
    Thanks for responding, I always enjoy your thoughtful contributions. I also think you’re correct in your assessment of the complexity of these folks. I just spent the weekend with my own dad who I love dearly but completely disagree with. I know absolutely, unequivocally that he’s not a racist, but he detests Obama and the policies he promotes. For the last several years my dad’s only source of information has been Fox and Rush. I’m perplexed that such an intelligent, warm, loving person can be on board with many of the beliefs you described.
    .
    But that’s not the point of my post. I was trying to say if the 9/12 protest was about ONE unified action that Obama was taking, I might listen. But it is not. Theirs is an orchestrated gathering of people who’s fear and anger can only be lumped together in one category—that they didn’t vote for Obama, therefore he should be stopped. They’re trying to REDO the election!!
    .
    I didn’t vote for Bush and I had to give his policies a chance because I believe in democracy. Yes, I protested the invasion of Iraq, but that was one unified effort, with one clear message. Amazingly, it was even predicated on the TRUST that the WMDs were REAL—that they actually existed—because that’s what he said and he was the POTUS (there was no “you lie!” until after it was actually proven.)
    .
    I’m frankly just appalled that any attention whatsoever is being paid to those who’s only clear decent is that they voted with the minority in a democratic election.

  • apollyon07

    53_3: yes, it is like guitar hero, but in addition to guitar and bass, it has drums and singing too. It’s great.
    .
    And I’m happy for the older crowd to have something like this too, but I’m 21 and thoroughly enjoy it. I’ll say that someone of my age liking The Beatles this much isn’t typical. I feel like I was born 50 years too late.

  • stuartzechman

    Thanks for the clarification, dunedweller, and I’m grateful that you took the time to read my commentary.

  • stuartzechman

    Rose:
    .
    Imperial Brotherhood by Robert Dean
    .
    On your recommendation, it’s next.

  • sacredh

    53_3: If you ever want do something similar, an invaluable book is “The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions” by Mark Lewisohn. It’s a log of every time the Beatles went into the studio, which songs they worked on, which instruments were added to the recordings, who played what, what was mixed, whether it was stereo or mono etc. Every date and time of the sessions is logged. It made it much easier to find out which songs were pulled from the sessions for release as a single, which songs were held back for another album or just plain not released at all.
    .
    Lennon’s “Leave My Kitten Alone” had been slated to be released as a single but they kept coming up with a better song as a single release and finally it was decided that their music had progressed to the point where it sounded dated to them. It’s a great rocker that should have been on the Help! album. It’s only on the Anthology cds.

  • sacredh

    apollyono7: I have a niece roughly your age who thinks she missed being born at that time too. When she was 12 her mother took her to see her first concert (New Kids on the Block). Less than a month later I took her to see Paul McCartney. She’s never been the same since.

  • apollyon07

    Thanks for that, sacredh! It’s good to know that I’m not alone. I do like some modern music (Radiohead, Muse for example) but my heart lies with music from that era.

  • sacredh

    President Obama is the intellectual leader of our party. The people you mentioned are entertainers and we regard them as such. There isn’t an elected democratic member of the house or senate that would feel any need whatsoever to apologize to ANY of them if they offended them, much less beg their forgiveness.

  • sacredh

    I’m a Radiohead fan myself. There are a few recent bands I follow, but I usually find myself taking 3-4 of their albums and making one good cd mix out of them.

  • dunedweller

    Day after day I read and enjoy the commentary here debating the motives and actions of the white house and its detractors. That’s all good. And very important. However sometimes we need to step back > look at the big picture > break it down to the most simple explanation. These protestors are angry because there was a sea change. Why? I don’t know, because I can’t comprehend why anyone would have been against a drastic change after 8 years of “compassionate conservatism” that darn near ruined us. But *why* doesn’t matter—THEY LOST.
    .
    Look, in order for this whole democracy thing to work, sometimes the other guy gets to have a turn. As difficult as that is, it’s how we’ve done it since the founding fathers wrote our constitution and it shouldn’t be any different for the 44th president. DROP THE SIGNS & STEP BACK PLEASE!

  • nflfoghorn

    U sure it wasn’t Edwin Starr?

  • nflfoghorn

    “You LIE!”

  • nflfoghorn

    Boy I wish it were that simple. It appears that this is thinly-veiled racism disguised as concern about the country’s direction. What will it take for the Glenn Blech pied pipers of the world to stop leading the lemmings off a cliff? EDUCATION.

  • jcapan

    SZ,
    .
    OK, finally got a moment to fully (& soberly) consider your rationale. First and foremost, let me just say how struck I was by the scope of your optimism, and above all else, your faith in change, that magical word (rendered nearly obscene and at least devoid of meaning by our political class). So, I’d probably have to say at the outset that your optimism is the biggest obstacle separating our views here. I am, discounting crazed enthusiasm during campaigns, far more cynical. You started by saying:
    .
    “Part of the power of the centrists in this government has also been derived from their appropriation of an intermediary role between right and left”
    .
    I agree but surely you’d in turn agree that this is more or less true of most administrations over the last 40 years. What our government is remarkable for is carving out a safe centrist port-in-a-storm of impassioned ideologies—this is their core article of faith, what they feel will get them elected as well as keep them safe on their perches. The centrali/corporati-zation of media, and the unprecedented corp-o-sponsorship of congress (particularly the senate) that began in earnest in the 70s has left Americans facing a monstrous establishment that grows and mutates like a virus, marginalizing and rendering impotent all that dares try to oppose it. Thus is the virile/viral potency of the beast and its charms. Meanwhile, citizens, given the paltry (& largely illusory) democratic tools at their disposal, are fighting stage IV cancer with aromatherapy. What Americans are left to is nibbling about the edges, modifying this or that superficial form or symptom of corruption, but the bedrock of obscene rot, this goes almost wholly unchallenged. By either party or the majority of their supporters.
    .
    Further, I agree that left and right, largely as a result of this entrenched centrist establishment, rarely address each other directly. Most of us choose to avoid rightist sources of news & opinion, faux and otherwise. We see what Kraut thinks, as represented by Joe Klein (& that’s as close as most of us want to get). And vice versa. It should also be noted that we worship at different churches (both literally and figuratively—Walmart vs. Whole Foods as shrines of another sort) move to different cities (progressives to places like Charlottesville, conservatives to gated communities in Tampa-St Pete), and we go to different schools (from the progressive liberal arts college to the gay boot camp, parochial or home school). Got ideology, we’ve got a school to match. What we share, sports, movies, games, are in fact precious unifiers, but they’re also the natural pressure releases built into any society (as is booze, porn…) So, yes, I agree that many of us don’t know the enemy, but let’s not forget that many progressives were raised in highly conservative environments, and vice versa. Many of us know and even sympathize with the enemy, but even when they’re family it’s nearly impossible to reach them. After we leave these environments, many of us naturally make concerted efforts to avoid discussions with those who advocate torture or the dropping of nuclear weapons, much like we don’t want to talk about the merits of adult-child sex with our local pedophile lurking the schoolyard bushes.
    .
    But I think it goes deeper than this—it’s not merely corporate money that’s changed the landscape since the ‘60’s. I was talking to an elderly Englishman who owns my favorite used bookstore the other day, and he said on recent trips home he’s noticed the nigh extinction of UK pub culture, which, you surely know, always rivaled the church for cultural primacy across England. I asked him his theory about why this has taken place, and he said today’s youth simply has no fancy for it, for that sense of community and brotherhood that was still intact, taken for granted even in our own youth, X-ers that we are. Like every generation, if you get old enough, you come to see that you’re the bridge from the formerly known world and what exists today. Another example of the new world that makes me feel a bit reactionary: today I saw two Japanese junior high schoolers on the train home, sitting right next to each for 30 minutes. Surely good friends, they spoke nary a word the entire time. One even had headphones in. They were texting as quickly as their wee digits could go, privileging the false relation over the breathing friend adjacent to them. What’s real anymore? Stuart, you see that your revolutionary faith in the ability to reshape our society is up against forces such as this too, right? How can we band together when we’re growing ever more distant from one another? Day in and day out we’re embracing the tools that help the state oppress and alienate us from our fellow man. As a cynic, I see it as a permanent shift. As my Englishman said, the pubs ain’t coming back. Remember Cypher in the Matrix? Bear with me, I know how clichéd Matrix references are, but I still maintain it’s a spot-on depiction of how technology spells our doom. Anyway, Cypher, played by sleazy Hoboken-born Joe Pantoliano, knows that steak is fake but he wants it anyway, as he longs for that tube to be plugged back into his neck. Most people, however bad things get, want the illusion, they’ll seek it out, they’ll expand more energy in it’s pursuit and continued presence in their lives than they ever will for the type of social and political change folks like you and I know would set them free and give their lives meaning again.
    .
    That said, I’m not naïve—I know top down, elite-led change is not the answer. But I’m unsure what the alternatives are in America, at least barring an actual Great Depression. I naively thought that things got bad enough after the Bush years that Americans were ready to chart a different course. I thought this after 9-11 too, and yes I agree that both leaders have failed these historic opportunities (so far in Obama’s case), but still the people, despite the miasmic sh!tstorm of mis/dis-info out there, must bear some responsibility for this too. I know, it seems a contradiction given my indictment of education and the media, it seems almost conservative to say people should pull themselves up by their own bookbags, auto-didacticism, but …
    .
    Back to change, and where it might originate? Barring academics or eggheads condescending to explain the complexities of the social order to the working class, how are the people to hear the gospel? Our schools, K-12 (unless you’re rich), are the laughingstock of the developed world, and much of the developing world in Asia and Latin America for that matter. The media, stating the f’ing obvious, has failed America. Thankfully, that institution is going to die a richly deserved death, and the billion $? remains what replaces it? So, elites can’t do it, the schools, the media, our two corporate parties, who honestly is going to lead this change in a way that radically re-conceptualizes our society? I mean, who will be the arbiter of objective truth, Stuart? A college professor holding a Nobel Prize, with the awesome power of truth and science at his disposal, is ridiculed. Climate change is a myth as is evolution to millions, the world was created a few thousand years ago, Barack Obama isn’t even an American, George Bush was really elected in 2000, that’s an example in democracy for the world to learn from? I read your condemnation of MS the other day about the Coast Guard snafu and his shoddy reportage, as if the objectivism you long for has simply been misplaced, that it’s recoverable, that the relativism that defines our society now can be rejected. I think the genie came out of pandora’s box and crossed the f’ing rubicon. In fact, despite America’s religiosity, I’d say that absent a singular god, no other voice carries authority into the gaping void. The multiplicity of gods and their attendant hucksters, like news channels or red or blue publications—there’s an interpretation out there for every kind of person. What you call an objective truth is another man’s lie. What you call a subjective opinion is for millions of Americans a core, unquestionable truth. You found A Gentleman’s Agreement to hold this meaning, your accountant another, this or that critic countless others. As far as art is concerned, multiplicity of interpretation is fine and dandy, but as for the objective truths of our world—I’m simply afraid no one will be trusted to mediate these debates any more. Barring the second coming or the body snatchers you alluded to…
    .
    I have a vision of what a just America would look like (many of the principles in place here or in Europe would be among the tenets I’d embrace), but the steps to get there—I simply can’t see them.
    .
    Aside from all that, let’s say your goal were realized, that left and right could have an unfiltered discourse (hopefully without firearms), what would be the result? First off, there’s an assumption built into this sorting into two polarized teams, that there’s no soft “mushy middle” among our countrymen? That there aren’t moderate or sane conservatives or liberals terrified of populism of any kind, the Ron Paul, Sarah Palin variety or the version Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nader might cluck about. Let’s say when the newspapers and magazines go the way of the dodo, we’re left with Democracy Now and Faux News—what then? And is that remotely realistic—won’t CNN and MSNBC, centrist entities, won’t the NY Times or WSJ (perhaps the only papers to survive) remain the center-right rags they are, clung to by the masses longing for the comfortable median truth. And won’t the majority of Americans, now as throughout their history, shy away from the more radical diagnoses or prescriptions about what ails them?
    .
    Finally, given your goal to have that unfiltered debate between L & R, what do you think about using a venue such as the Swamp to do it, it being a major artery of centrist bathwater. Wouldn’t, according to your rationale, the best place to enter the fray be Huff Po, Kos, Red State, whatever the nutters go in for. You know, go and seek them out on their territory or vice versa. And perhaps, prolific gent that you are, you’re doing this too.
    .
    You say to Dune: “This story is a very, very important one for many people. It explains so much about their lives, and their world right now. It gives them meaning and purpose, and it connects them together in the service of noble struggle. It unifies them against a mythological enemy: us.”
    .
    Excellent, yes, but as you well know, this end of days philosophy is largely in place on the left as well. We were wringing our hands at the notion of a Mac presidency, wondering if America could survive another 4-8 years. We thought W. wasn’t duly elected and that he should be impeached. Of course, objectively, we know that these are not equivalent manifestations, but … All of us who come to politics with genuine, lasting commitment are looking for something to believe in greater than ourselves. Like god, it’s largely faith in a mythological being, a slowly perfecting, self-correcting template for society.
    .
    So, I don’t know where the paths to the promised land lie, Stuart, but I guess I just can’t see how engaging the rightists gets you there. I’m not saying that engaging the center has proven all that successful either, mind you. You’re dead on that populism affords America it’s best hope of a just and promising future (if not survival). This is Zinn’s up from the street refrain. But these binaries, L vs. R, within our current 2 (i.e. 1) party system, an establishment holding all the aces, I just can’t see it. That astonishing groundswell that our eloquent president brought into being like a conjurer, that is a beast that can rival the establishment. What I’m convinced of, on this likely eve of failed HCR, is that the next time our side (progressives, not democrats) can manage to rebuild the trust of millions, especially the youthful millions Obama risks losing, is that that movement, bottom up, will be towards challenging those entrenched interests from the outside, and not just during the campaign but after. To wit, a 3rd party. That’s the only conclusion I can reach, that a force must rear it’s head that capitalizes on all this unfocused and fact-free rage against the machine. I think most people are cynical Stuart, and if Obama serves up more of the same, you’ll agree that cynicism will reach an all time high between now and 2012. Think about it, when was the last time our gov’t really worked for it’s people—in our pre-history right? So, basically, you have multiple generations of voters who have seen this Texas two step at least once. The Reagan/Bush to Clinton followed by the Bush to Obama handoff. At what point does someone say, you know what it’s broke folks. You know someone’s going to step in and whip that force into potent focus. Americans are so very ripe for a more fundamental challenge to the system. In the end, it’s that or nothing. Meanwhile, I continue to have the sneaking suspicion that in constantly striving towards utopia, by dedicating so much time and energy towards this futile quest, that lives are hollowed out, made vacuous (Cormac McCarthy’s word).
    .
    Anyway, that’s all I got. Not much (discounting length) but there it is.

  • emptysuit

    “Who listens to MSM anyway.”

    Try the rest of America and the world, emptysuit.

    You know. The world. That big blue round thing third out from that yellow G5 star? Yeah.

    That one…

    That big round thing is call Terra, and the Sun is a G2V star, you forgot luminosity smarty. You must have got your information from MSM. Yeah?

    http://emptysuit.wordpress.com/

  • bitterpill8

    Have enjoyed the posts and follow up starting with Stuart…Just a thought: we having bought the idea of American exceptionalism holus bolus. We claim to be the best in this and that; we demean traditional allies; our discourse is framed as right and wrong and in the end, to borrow a phrase I read at TPM (Don Davis) who quotes a satirical blog: We have “An Uncivil Whites Movement”.

    Fox News, MSNBC and Talk Radio are doing their best to drive us apart

  • bitterpill8

    “have” instead of “having”: apologies

  • Matt

    All of these folks bused in by the GOP PAC’s are already hard-core conservative Republicans who didn’t even come close to voting for Obama last year. How can that be considered a “movement”?

    http://www.political-buzz.com/

  • 53_3

    I’m kind of everywhere on the map. Jazz, Soul, Blues, even the heavy metal.
    .
    I don’t like music that’s not adventurous, though, which is why I’m not particularly partial to Southern rock or Country, but even there there are a few songs I like. Hip hop is just too energetic and one dimensional, real rap tells stories, but I’m still not real partial to that genre.
    .
    But, here’s a few of my favorites:
    Simon and Garfunkel – ballads
    Tool, Metallica, and Korn – heavy metal
    Led Zeppelin – Rock and Blues
    Al Green – Soul, Motown
    Four Tops – Motown
    —–? (I know her name!!!!) – Midnight Train to Georgia
    .
    Just a taste. Like I said, all over the map…

  • 53_3

    freepeethreeoh:
    .
    Can’t you get content in your responses? Is it that your arguments are that empty of factualness, and that far off the mark that you simply cannot rebut with facts?
    .
    I think it’s the latter. As for the soapbox, it was you who raised the issue and, like I said:
    .
    You know nothing about race.

  • 53_3

    “A teabagger is the polar opposite of a liberal freeloader or in the venacular a d-bag”
    .
    freethreepeeoh:
    .
    Of all of your “responses”, I’m going to walk away from this one, laughing under my breath. I’m just going to let this one lay there, stinking in the hot sun, with flies all around it.
    .
    Just don’t forget, you said it!….

  • 53_3

    Might have been. I’ll consider myself corrected!

  • 53_3

    Well, there’s always the 700 Club “news”, freethreepeeoh.
    .
    What is interesting is this observation:
    .
    There is only one FOX. There are about 30 or 40 other major news channels who don’t go that way (see your comment on teabagging, above).
    .
    Now, I can see two possible explanations:
    .
    There is a vast left wing conspiracy involving the entire planet (yes! again, I’m referring to that big blue one third out from that little G5 star!),
    .
    or
    .
    FOX is of such ill repute, that none of the remainder* of the major news networks would even consider emulating them.
    .
    *usually, a “remainder” implies a small fraction of the whole left after an operation on a set, but well, I have to use the term very loosely because we are talking about everyone but FOX!

  • 53_3

    Well, emptysuit, you got your spectral classification right, but luminosity isn’t all that goes into spectral classification anyway. I was speaking from memory.
    .
    I’ll give you G2v on the classification of the sun, now that I remember correctly, but quoting your own blog as “proof” that somehow, the rest of the planet* doesn’t look at MSM is laughable, hence my accurately aimed sarcasm, which you didn’t so much as dent.
    .
    In short, you are just not real good at this. As for where I got my information, it’s called reality!
    .
    *Popularly known as “Earth” and other monikers. “Terra” is rarely used.

  • 53_3

    freethreepeeoh:
    .
    Them is facts. Look ‘em up!
    .
    You may not like the fact that I usually score on you right at the heart of the matter, leaving you with nothing but empty rhetoric to respond with, but you look more idiotic by the minute whenever you sidestep those pesky suckers* in order to insult me.
    .
    It’s great recreation, and I love it because I don’t have to do any of the work! You kick your own arse very nicely, thank you, and I’m more than happy to guide you in the most inappropriate directions so that your general stupidity and ignorance of the real world are on display for all to see!
    .
    *Those fact thingies. You know. Hell. Maybe not. Never mind…

  • 53_3

    “Yes the union folks are just palin hard working folk looking for fair wages for a good day’s work.”
    .
    Was this a Freudian slip? Is freethreepeeoh in need of the services of a Star Spangled Dominatrix?
    .
    snicker

  • 53_3

    I rest your case.

  • 53_3

    freetopee:
    .
    You wouldn’t be talking about the $7,400,000,000,000* Bernanke handed out under the Bush Administration without any oversight whatsoever, would you.
    .
    Of course, you didn’t happen to notice either that that is 90 times the size of all government sponsored programs for the poor, did you?
    .
    How about the fact that it would take at 0% interest, the entire span of the Hadean, Archean, Proterozoic, and Phanerozoic eons (4.568 billion years) to pay off!
    .
    Just an oversight, I’m sure…
    .
    This is a low estimate, google for others, and includes sources like Money Central, etc.

  • 53_3

    That’s at $130 a month, btw…

  • 53_3

    You’re right! See below.
    .
    He caught me in a whopper. The sun’s a G2v star!

  • stuartzechman

    “Terra” is rarely used.
    .
    Where have you been for the past eight years?
    .
    Don’t you remember the “Global War On Terra”?

  • sacredh

    ” Global War on Terra”
    .
    I do love a good pun. That’s just off-the-wall enough for me to insist that it added to the lexicon.

  • 53_3

    My memory is short, Stuart.
    .
    I was under the impression that posilutely nothing happened between Feb 20, 2001 and Feb 19, 2009.
    .
    My mistake!

  • 53_3

    You see, it’s like this, emptysuit:
    .
    I know that you stopped your Risperdal and now you hear voices that tell you this and that, but like most other Fascist Froot Loops here, you can’t keep pointing out what those voices in your head tell you and then claim that it’s proof!
    .
    There is a difference between the symptoms of a mental illness and proof. Those voices may be real enough in your head, but most of the rest of us rely on experience in the wide open universe of reality!
    .
    Try it sometime…

  • stuartzechman

    Oregon JC:
    .
    Let me consider this. Thanks for the response.

  • 53_3

    I’ll second you on Stuarts’ contribution, sacred.
    .
    If you’ll note, it does have that delicious redundancy required of the best of lexical tidbits!

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