Latest Column

If we define “Puritanism” as the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy, we can go further and define WingNutism as the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be getting a broken leg set without having produced a passport first.

Joe-The NYT had a report not to long ago concerning our hospitals deporting people.
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In some cases they are illegal aliens and in some cases these people are here legally.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/us/09deport.html?_r=1

Now you are interested in the most cost effective and efficient option?
I wonder if there is one out there?

It is not unreasonable at all. From the way I see it, you are absolutely right that we are paying for the health care of those illegal immigrants who seek emergency medical treatment (one of the most expensive to provide) but are unable to pay. So why not cover them? Politics. The debate is being demagogued enough by those who oppose reform… they use fear and lies to turn their listeners and constituents against reform–I don’t think it could withstand adding in the wedge issue of illegal immigration.

And, to be honest with you, I find it a little ironic that you would espouse this politically untenable, yet logically appropriate issue while completely dismissing the public option out of hand.

The two words that changed the face of health care:

“You lie!”

“I know it ‘s not going to happen. Congress will never vote to subsidize the health care of those who arrived here illegally. But, given the fact that we’re already subsidizing them through the back door, it does make sense, doesn’t it?”

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Let us make this very simplified for Joe, he seems at times to require explanations which are at a more 3rd grade level.
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Joe, do you support people who shop-lift? Do you believe it is ok, perfectly fine for someone to go into a store and take something without paying for it?
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Do you think Joe, when other people STEAL it most likely causes the prices to go up for everyone else? Now I know you may say, “that is exactly what I am saying rusty about healthcare. When illegal’s go to the ER for treatment, they are getting free healthcare and the rest of us pay for it.
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Well Joe, there is only one little problem here. When someone STEALS it not only increases the prices, but it is ILLEGAL. People who steal things from other people, when caught go to JAIL.
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Are you advocating that people who stead, people who come to this country illegally should simply be afforded the same rights and privileges as YOU get Joe?
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Do you support a complete open border policy. Live and let live philosophy, Joe? Let anyone into our country that wants to come and has the means, but they do not necessarily need to go through the proper channels, is that a yes, Joe?
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If those are your ideals, then this country based on democracy, freedom and laws is doomed under your progressive system. This is why so many Americans become so concerned when the likes of Obama get into the White House. The Van Jones, Cas Susteens, Valerie Jarretts and John Podesta’s of the Progressive Movement, these people think in 3rd grade levels. Oh isn’t the kitty pretty Mommie, can’t we bring it home?
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Just the simple fact that you even publish a statement makes you dangerous, makes TIME dangerous.

Oh to have the simple mind of a liberal. And what do you you call people who break our countries laws and folks sworn to uphold our laws that aid and abet those folks?

“1.1Oh to have the simple mind of a liberal. And what do you you call people who break our countries laws and folks sworn to uphold our laws that aid and abet those folks?
freeinpa
September 10, 2009
at 8:45 am ”

Dick Cheney?

Joe clearly thinks that in providing illegal immigrants free health care is one of those times that liberals believe the Constitution is clearly an unnecessary nuisance. or in a for instance where they bastardize it and believe that separation of church and state means the elimination of church.

You forgot to add “and can practically get away with it.”

A fine column, Joe. It really is a defining moment for our political culture. And it is catastrophic that one party has forsworn hard work and intelligent thought for the ignorance-’n-spleen of Beck and Limbaugh.
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BTW, Palin-style ravings and lies have lowered the president’s approval rating because the media is terrible at reporting the news. As ABC’s Dan Harris put it, “the media loves a good fight — even when the charges are unfounded”. So, we get plenty of horse race coverage, plenty of “concerns are being raised!”, and little in the way of providing factual information to anyone.
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There was no particularly compelling need to mention Van Jones in this health care column, but whatever.

“Isn’t the point to expand the risk pool as much as possible, to lure the insurance companies into concessions and lower prices?”
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Joe-Did you really think this about this question before you posed it?
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No one is going to lure insurance companies into anything. They are in the profit making business and while health and insurance may be part of their business name, maximizing profit is their motive. And they do it well. And they are not stupid.

An expansion of the risk pool to them means more opportunity to turn a profit. Not making concessions and lowering prices. And what prices are you referring to anyway? They have to be forced to make changes especially ones that could have an impact on their bottom lines.

Then I expect you will use the strength, vigor and bile to indict all of them as you have for Cheney. Otherwise to quote Demo Congressman in town hall meetings “Shut up and sit down”.

freeinpa:
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Klein says “The reality is they get emergency room treatment now, because the heirs of hospital nuns won’t turn away parents with bleeding kids.“, and you say “Joe clearly thinks that in providing illegal immigrants free health care is one of those times that liberals believe the Constitution is clearly an unnecessary nuisance“.
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This is an example of why the President of the United States of America had to get up on national television and affirm to the country that conservative Republicans are liars.
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You’re lying. It’s dishonorable. Try to have some dignity, some honor when you participate in our great democracy, freeinpa. Stop cheapening the legacy of the founders.
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Try being a patriotic American for once, instead of a punch-drunk heckler. Your country needs better from you right now.

When you eliminate the ability to exclude pre-exisitng conditions, no caps on insurance paid or limit out of pocket expenses you no longer have a risk pool– it’s a free for all.

Blackwater……

Ooo! Me! Me! Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales…

Indict all of whom? I thought Obama said last night that his plan doesn’t cover illegals, or are you suggesting that we indict Klein?

Freep, your respect for the rule of law seems pretty selective. Where were you when FISA was being gutted? Where were you when the Chapter 113C anti-torure statute was being gutted? Where were you when BuchCo was busy trashing the Federal agencies charged with enforcing the workplace laws already on the books designed to prevent companies from hiring undocumented workers?
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Why do you think the immigration laws are so restrictive in the first place?
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I know you’re comfortable being seeped in hatred but it sure isn’t pretty when seen from the outside…..

stuart:
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This is an example of why the President of the United States of America had to get up on national television and affirm to the country that conservative Republicans are liars.

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Could you point me to the part that Obama, an illigetimate President, said “Republicans are liars”?
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Sensationalizing a point, accusing someone of “not being patriotic” is well beneath your level stuart. I am surprised to read what you have wrote to freeinpa.
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You have clearly said in the past on this very site that all Americans have the freedom of speech. To express their opinions, have you changed your mind on that stuart? Are you now fully in bed with the far left liberal extreme?
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Keep commenting freeinpa. It is when opposing voices to these lunatics are heard that their LIES are exposed. They want you to put your tail between your legs and run away. They want nothing more.
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But when the likes of Van Jones one of stuart and other “Progressive’s idol”, slides out the White House doors in the middle of the night, head down so no one can see who he is, THAT is what rocks them back on their feet.
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You speak out. Voice your concern. Voice your questions to this nutball of a President. That is what being a patriot is all about. Defending the constitution of the United States. Not hiding behind it as Van Jones has proved so recently.

stuartzechman

I love being lectured about patriotism by liberals. For the past 40+ plus years liberal have done nothing but disrespect this country and its ideals. They make tatters of the Constitution. You have a President now that had an avowed Communist in a policy position that liberals still defend. You have a group ACORN who commits fraud and felonies nearly daily that the President and liberals Congressman continue to fund. You have a Treasury Secretary who is a tax fraud. You had Senator Kennedy who committed treason (in addition to murder) tryig to undermine a sitting President and he is lionized by the left. Please spare me your faux nod to the founders. You may not be a punch drunk heckler but just a disingenuous buffoon.

And I fail to see how calling for the enforcement of our laws on immigration makes me a liar. This site has liberal after liberal tossing around that term to every statement that doesn’t adhere to their opinions. The lies being told are by liberals to themselves.

Paul It is not selective. If crimes were committed and it can be proven then prosecute. I believe that Bill Clinton should have gotten the same sentence as Martha Stewart. seems that you claims of the Bush administration have been reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and… all with the same result. Problem is you don’t like the result. I am sure you are outraged by Sandy Berger destroying security documents at the direction of the Ex-President. And as for companies not hiring illegal immigrants, I believe the Constitutional Professor in Chief has barred raids on companies. It seems if liberals can’t blame evil companies or conservatives they ignore the law.

Paul

Hey gang

It’s been a pleasure reading (most) posts of late – especially the Lib/Cons & Left/Right tennis matches. Great stuff. Let’s do our part to keep it civil and “No Feeding Thursdays” will be a thing of the past.

Cheers.

PD, you provided the best outloud laugh I’ve had in a while with your succinct comeback of the year to freeinpa’s rhetorical question regarding law breaking in and by government.

Like the wwf/townhall meetings of late, Klein’s point about the meaninglessness the rw umbridge with illegal immigrant medical care is overlooked. Indeed, what is supposed to happen to people, “legal” or not when dire care is required? The rw would probably establish holding cells outside of hospital zones until their dead cold bodies could be dumped into the Rio Grande.

One more thing about the jerk Wilson’s outburst at the “illegal” statement. It was preceeded by a vocal nonverbal chorus from the rwnuts in the crowd. Wilson in fact unknowingly splashed cold water on a developing wwf crowd display by his verbalizing what his irrational rw friends had already demonstrated.

Oh, HELL, freetopeeonyourself!
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I’ll join the parade, too.
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Now tell me all about Al-Queda and the radical Muslim imams.
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Then, you can tell me all about Steven Anderson, Timothy McVeigh, “taking the country back”, “martyrs’ blood” (now doesn’t that have an Al-Queda-is ring to it?!?!), and gun toting thugs at Obama rallies and health care town hall meetings!
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Yessssss, freetopeeinyourownmouth, tell me!
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Please!
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Some of us are dying to know…

If they really think Obama’s program will include Death Panels, shouldn’t the wingnuts WANT illegal immigrants covered?

“Oh to have the simple mind of a liberal…”
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I see. I take it then that thinking outside the ideological box is somehow limiting, and actual thinking for oneself is highly overrated, right?
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And, of course I also see that being a dittohead and letting Rush Limbaugh sit on your right shoulder instead of your conscience is somehow more enlightening?

Obama clearly hit the right notes on the speech and gave moderates and the skeptical public everything they needed to at least grudgingly accept that reform is vital and the president’s agenda is far from radical. But will this effect show in the polls and in the broader public dialogue? Nail-biting times for the White House…

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Well, there is this:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/10/cnn-poll-double-digit-post-speech-jump-for-obama-plan/

Watching the speech, I loved the panning shots of the GOP side of the chamber. They weren’t always sure whether to applaud. “Prescription drugs for seniors … boo? Er, yay!”

At one point Lindsey Graham looked like he was about to clap and then he kind of rubbed his hands instead.

McConnell looked like he was literally grinding his teeth.

re illegals, I think the idea is that they should bleed to death in the streets.

“Why do you think the immigration laws are so restrictive in the first place?”

WIld guess but to keep out illegals

or give liberals a higher bar for their standard in acceptable law breaking?

Great speech, hit all the right notes. Big question is the country (and I mean right and left) smart enough to respond? From the comments i’ve seen on some of the blogs I doubt it. The Corner is absolutely ridiculous of course, but the Salon blog commentators are talking about things like he is selling a republican plan with charisma, or that he is a complete sell out by referencing bipartisanship again.

My god, nothing is ever good enough. For 45 or so minutes, Obama held the line between inspiration, policy details and smack downs; even if I didn’t agree with him (and I do) I would marvel at the technical brilliance of it; kudos to him and his speech writer.

Another thing, the republicans are ducks where u is i.

btw, nice column. Will it be in the dead tree edition?

A man dressed in black yelled “Communist!” and continued to do so throughout the rest of the meeting, like a demented parrot.

Glenn Beck was at the town hall?

IQ53

I see you continually prove the “simple mind” statement with you tiresome cliches. Save your thoughts I doubt you have many left

I was hoping that Sarah Palin was an aberration and did not represent the true spirit of Republicanism and her supposedl charisma brought along many voters. But after watching the August town halls, listening to the mendacity of Liz Cheny and observing Joe Wilson and others last night., It is clear that Sarah does represent what has become of the Republican party. The party of family values has not learned the basic values ,that is telling the truth and good manners. If people believe that Sarah wrote the op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, they will believe I wrote all the Shakespeare plays, the Gettysburg Address and all the lyrics of the Bealte songs.

Obviously Wilson should not have exclaimed as he did. I bristled at the booing and heckling Bush received when he sought to reform Social Security, and I bristle at this. The *office* of the President is deserving of respect (though this is nothing by British standards, where the Prime Minister regularly faces raucous and jeering opposition in Parliament).

The question raised by Joe Wilson’s outburst is not whether illegal immigrants *should* be covered under the proposed reforms, but whether they *would* be covered. I tend to agree that some coverage for illegal immigrants would be wiser than relying on emergency rooms. But the President is branding the contention that illegal immigrants *would* receive coverage as an out-and-out lie. It’s not. The President is being dishonest here.

It’s fine to state that illegal immigrants should not benefit from the new laws (as House and Senate versions do), but absent enforcement mechanisms the statement is window-dressing. The Republicans are not asking for draconian measures. They’re simply asking for proof of citizenship–not before one receives treatment (no one will be asked for a driver’s license while bleeding from the head), but before one is enrolled in a public health care option. This is not much to ask. But Democrats voted against it, party line.

In other words, it’s a reasonable contention that illegal immigrants will in fact receive free health insurance under the proposed reforms–and it’s deserving of a reasoned, persuasive response, not simply branding it a “lie.”

I can see the left is in full intellectual force today.

No just liberals should be covered under the Fed option with death panels

Art–

Each Thursday I post my print edition column for your Swampland perusal under the title “Latest Column.” This column, which continues the theme of Republican nihilism that I started in the print edition several weeks ago, will be published tomorrow.

In moral development we are supposed to progress through the stages of black and white dualism (which seems more Republican to me), through the gray of relativism where right answers don’t always exist so any pinion might be valid (which seems more Democrat to me), and reach a level of commitment in relativism (which seems more Centrist). I’m oversimplifying and it’s been a long time since I studies this in grad school, but the basic framework is correct.

This final stage recognizes the limitation of the previous two and says that at this time, based on these facts and the values we wish to advance, we make these choices with the understanding that at another time with different facts or to advance a different value, we might make a different choice.

I’d find it every appealing if our discourse would reflect and support more inquiry associated with this final stage than pure advocacy from the previous two.

Ah! Thanks.

At this point I think “bipartisanship” mostly means getting Blue Dogs and progressives to agree, plus Olympia Snowe.

Rustydog:

Could you point me to the part that Obama, an illigetimate President…

Whoah…I think you might want to walk one that back, dude. Is this the normal birth certificate nonsense, or have you decided that the Electoral College is illegitimate (probably is), or what?
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Surely you don’t mean to say that Barack Obama is not the duly elected, sworn and legitimate President of the United States…right, Rustydog?
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We can’t even have a conversation about policy or what somebody said or didn’t say, or the constitution and what it means, if we have to settle a psychotic’s questions of whether the guy behind that lectern last night was really the President.
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Would you like to clarify?

…said “Republicans are liars”?

Here’s the part where the duly elected, sworn and legitimate President of the United States said:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/09/obama-health-care-speech_n_281265.html
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Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but by prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Now, such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.

, and therefore affirmed what we all know, which is that at least some of the conservative Republicans who make such ludicrous, false claims are deliberate liars. That’s what the man said, and he’s right. There’s no debate; those claims are lies.
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We can talk about the value of Medicare covering medical advice on living wills all day. We can talk about whether it makes fiscal sense, or whether the law as written actually accomplishes people not having to pay so much for medical advice on their living wills. We can talk about commissions set up by the government to figure out whether paying $800 per Tylenol capsule is a good use of taxpayer money or not, or whether such unelected commissions (like the Federal Reserve Board is, essentially) are inevitably stacked with industry cronies who make bad decisions for the country (like those regarding the recent bank bailout).
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But when dishonest, conservative Republican politicians tell frightened, confused people outright lies like Sarah Palin did –as if the debate were about liberals, centrists and Democrats wanting death panels, and conservatives and Republicans trying to stop death panels– democracy stops, and war begins.
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Surely you can understand that we liberals aren’t going to be slapped in the face by dishonorable, gutless, un-American liars, right, Rustydog?
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Maybe you really do believe the conservative line about liberals being afraid to fight, but that’s not us. That’s centrists, Rustydog. Liberals came down to the South to fight the Klan, my friend. The left stood up to Hitler years before Pearl Harbor, when we volunteered to go to Spain to fight the fascists –the “Abraham Lincoln Brigade” we were called then. We’ve been standing up to the likes of J.P. Morgan and Andrew Carnegie –and their private armies– for the past hundred years. That’s what we do.
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We’re actually dedicated fighters, not cowards like the centrists. We won’t be slapped in the face with lies, not by anyone.

Sensationalizing a point, accusing someone of “not being patriotic” is well beneath your level stuart. I am surprised to read what you have wrote to freeinpa.

Maybe you’re not used to liberal Democrats standing up for American values like courage and truth, but that’s not because those aren’t our values, it’s because centrist politicians in Washington have been the only ones allowed to have the microphone until just recently. Telling people deliberate lies is un-American. It’s wrong. The worse the lie is, the more un-American it is.
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There is is difference between saying “This reform will not add to the deficit.” (probably a lie like the kind we hear in TV advertisements every day), and saying “This reform will set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens.” (a damn lie), Rustydog. One is politician-speak, the other is un-American.
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Surely you know that…or would you say that fear-mongering lies are American? Of course not, Rustydog.

You have clearly said in the past on this very site that all Americans have the freedom of speech. To express their opinions, have you changed your mind on that stuart? Are you now fully in bed with the far left liberal extreme?

Of course I haven’t changed my mind. Am I calling for moderators to remove freeinpa’s un-American lies, just because they are un-American? No, of course not.
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The freedom to be un-American was deliberately written into the Bill of Rights by our founders. If freeinpa wants to rhetorically piss on and then burn our flag, I won’t ask Congress to pass unconstitutional laws against it. That’s freedom, which is a liberal value, as evidence by the existence of the American Civil Liberties Union.
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Am I fully in bed with the far left liberal extreme?
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I am extreme in defense of the core of Western civilization being the basis of our political discourse, Rustydog. I am extreme in defense of the truth.
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I’ll defend movement conservatives against lies. I’ll even defend centrists (who I don’t trust) like Joe Klein or Barack Obama against lies. That’s because I know that I’m not defending them so much as I am defending Enlightenment Era reason and truth, Rustydog.
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If that makes me extreme and a liberal, then so be it.
I’ll be proud as hell of that characterization, and teach it to my children someday, because I want them to grow up to be good Americans.
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Thanks for reading and considering this, Rustydog.

I think an Obama supporter, Professor Marc Lamont Hill hit it in a moment of honesty.

“Obama has done an amazing job of going around the country, talking to hundreds of people and not really saying anything on terms of specifics”.

And the empty suit goes on. Today he spoke to the Nurses Association and got their approval of his plan. The media could play the tapes from July and the last time he got their support

So Rusty, what should a hospital do if, as in Joe’s example, an illegal immigrant is injured and goes to the Emergency Room? What if his injury is life-threatening without medical intervention? Should the ER staff just let him die? What if he has a communicable disease that could easily spread if not treated?

freeinpa:
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When you eliminate the ability to exclude pre-exisitng conditions, no caps on insurance paid or limit out of pocket expenses you no longer have a risk pool– it’s a free for all

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Actually, I will be happy if Obama can pull this off. But my common sense tells me that any insurance company that accepts this type of regulation will simply only offer the so-called “cadillac” plans. The insurance companies will ensure through exhorbidant rate quotes that they have their bases covered.
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What Obama care will do is eliminate the semi-affordable insurance policies we currently have in place. WIth these restrictions and regulations, Obama has set into motion a huge inflationary circumstance that insurance will simply pass on the cost to the consumer yet again.
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It is nothing more than a way to bring in single payer, government backed insurance through the back door. That is the goal, and exactly what I have read on all of the progressive sites. Enact tough regulation, cause the prices to go through the roof, and as people in the middle class can no longer afford their current insurance, they have no choice in the matter. They will be forced into Obama’s single payer, one size fits all insurance plan.
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But, let them try freeinpa. Hopefully the end result will be the total failure, and revolt by the middle class against Obama and his allies in the House.
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Snake oil Salesman Obama at his best.

Thanks for this additional information, Joe Klein.

Credit where it is due. SZ does not merely feed the trolls. He serves up a four-course meal.

rusty

I agree. I hope they put in a full public option plan, no caps no limits and pass it by reconciliation. I beg them please do. The higher taxes, rationing and comparative service reviews (death panels to us non-educated rednecks) and dwindling private plans will have voters send liberals in Washington back home to just annoying their own family.

One can only hope.

tddalrymple:

They’re simply asking for proof of citizenship–not before one receives treatment (no one will be asked for a driver’s license while bleeding from the head), but before one is enrolled in a public health care option.

Read the bill, they go on and on…

PART 1–INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY
SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
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(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS- Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien.
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SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
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Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

The authors make it eminently clear that the purpose of the legislation is to provide an exchange where private and public insurers compete for qualified applicants’ premium dollars.
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The idea that an entire new Federal bureaucracy dedicated to examining and verifying proof of citizenship should be a part of health care reform is a really dishonest way to throw a wrench in that system. There is no such thing as “simple” proof of citizenship without a Department of Motor Vehicles type bureaucracy devoted to processing required documents paperwork –and slowing things down.
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If such huge new state bureaucracy is needed to pass each American applicant into enrollment in a public option –like so many shoe-less air travelers in line before the TSA– then there should be calls for the private insurers and Medicare and Medicaid to have new state agencies, too.
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In order not to place the public option plan at a disadvantage to the insurance industry, we should probably be talking about a new Department of Homeland Security-style agency devoted to the task of asking all American citizens applying for insurance of any kind to show the bureaucrats their papers. After all, we want a “level playing field”, don’t we?
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The fact is that there’s nothing in the bill devoted to making Americans prove that they’re not criminals is proof that it’s a smarter, less needlessly bureaucratic piece of legislation –the opposite of a tax-payer money-wasting plan, which is what the “illegal aliens will be covered” issue is nominally supposed to be about.
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There’s nothing in the bill that forces the public plan to ask for proof that applicants aren’t bank robbers, either, but to change the language and purpose of the reform legislation from making it easier for Americans to get insurance to stopping bank robbers from getting a piece of the tax dollars going into the pitiful, Lilliputian public option would be exactly what the sponsors of such a provision apparently intend it to be –a poison pill.

18 and older; entertainment purposes only.

stuart says:
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and therefore affirmed what we all know, which is that at least some of the conservative Republicans who make such ludicrous, false claims are deliberate liars. That’s what the man said, and he’s right. There’s no debate; those claims are lies.

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Yes, there have been “some” Republicans who have gone over the top, denouncing Obama’s plan for “panels”, and even went to far as calling them “death panels”. But, they also have names. If you call someone out, you do so by using their name, not take the back door route as you have done and your hero Barack Obama, and simply call them “Republicans”. This type of partisan politics that you use now, and Obama chided everyone about last night is simply politics as usual. But, you continue stuart. I shall do the same, lump all liberals into one big nasty pot of sewage.
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There have also been out-right lies from the Liberals on healthcare, and half-truths. You know as well as I know that the real cause of our “healthcare crisis” is due to the cost of healthcare. Period. You should be thoroughly seething with anger at Obama for not passing your “healthcare for all” meme. Calling him out on what the real crisis is, healthcare costs. But, as usual, back-door politics is the game for liberal Progressives to play. The same as any subversive group would do. They play their brand of politics in the dead of the night, where they can’t be seen or heard. Ask Van Jones, I am sure he can give you great pointers on just how to “organize” the community.
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The left stood up to Hitler years before Pearl Harbor, when we volunteered to go to Spain to fight the fascists –the “Abraham Lincoln Brigade” we were called then. We’ve been standing up to the likes of J.P. Morgan and Andrew Carnegie –and their private armies– for the past hundred years. That’s what we do.

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” The Abraham Lincoln Brigade was made up of volunteers from all walks of American life, and from all classes. Many of the people who volunteered for the Abraham Lincoln Brigade were official members of the Communist Party USA or affiliated with other socialist or anarchist organizations, such as the Uruguayan Hugo Fernández Artucio. Members of the Industrial Workers of the World (“Wobblies”) were also represented. It is sometimes thought to be the first American military unit to be commanded by a black officer, Oliver Law. [ Irish volunteers formed the Connolly Column of the battalion under the command of Frank Ryan. The column joined the American rather than the British battalion on nationalist grounds.

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This is who you hold pride for stuart? A group of “nationalist”, made up of communists? I’ll leave it at that for it clearly speaks for itself.
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So far as Obama’s legitimacy. I do question his right to be President. The proof would be simple. Simply produce the ORIGINAL birth certificate. Not some made up recent version. Perhaps the real reason we do not see Obama’s birth certificate published, possibly it says clearly on it “Religion” – “Muslim”. I am not a birther, but I do find the way this all took place during the campaign, and afterwards as very suspicious. Maybe that is all it is, an original birth certificate that says he was born a Muslim. Not that this would disqualify him, it would just say you elected the first Muslim President of the United States of America. I’m sure we shall find out someday. We always do it seems.
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http://mediamatters.org/research/200907170039
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Perhaps you’ll enjoy reading the link above, stuart. Perhaps other people might be interested in it as well.

Kline is a hypocrite plain and simple

You tread on thin ice over deep waters, tddalrymple. Of course undocumented “exchange” insurance recipients of the Obama health care plan would never be asked to provide proof. Doing so would open Pandora’s other box on Obama’s shelf.
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I am glad to see you at least question Obama’s motives, which I think are simply more back-door policies, without legislative backing and American citizen approval.
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Simply saying I am a citizen, when in fact I am not is the Progressive’s way of “justice and rule of law”. Of course they can also switch from one ideal to the other at the drop of the hat and be totally exonerated.
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Van Jones for example. Once upon a time he was an avowed Communist. Wrapping himself in the flag of Mao, Lenin and Marx. Now, “he has changed”. “Give the guy a break, he’s changed”. He’s now for “green jobs”, a “green planet”. He is no longer a RED.

stuartzechman

I love how you romanticize about how liberals today are the liberals of old. For the past 40 years liberals have flown under the “America is bad” banner and apologize to every tin-horn dictator for how we act. Liberals have gone from Civil Rights to Special Rights. Equal opportunity to Equal Outcome.

Glad to hear liberals protected us from JP Morgan and Carnegie. Hate guys who nearly single handedly saved the banking system in the 1930′s with their own money (A concept that liberals have a hard time understanding). Or national library systems with there own money. Unlike the liberal heroes like Soros who gave us MoveOn.org. Did they fight against Joseph Kennedy when he used his government position to rape the American public to help build Camelot?

Maybe you can start with Obama and informing him of his lies. He has been the Chief Misinformer. One day he tells us something is not in his plan and the next tells us he has no plan (That I believe). He told us yesterday it would be deficit neutral and yet he tells us many details need to be worked out..He is Carnac too. One day 47 million uninsured and now 30 million, Wow he cured 17 million of not having insurance just by talking.

I also love your outrage over rustys comments about a legitimate president given the past 8 years the liberals had no trouble calling Bush just that.

Stop lying to yourself before you lecture anybody else on honesty.

Who eat it up and spit it out. Liars aren’t limited to conservatives. Liberals need to look in the mirror no matter how painful

“I also love your outrage over rustys comments about a legitimate president given the past 8 years the liberals had no trouble calling Bush just that.”
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Yes, well. Barack Obama was elected president in a modern popular landslide of nearly 8 million votes. George W. Bush sued his way to the White House after losing the election by half a million votes.

Again selective liberal amnesia. I seem to remember an army of attorneys for Al Gore swamping the court system as well. He lost and the electoral college, as the laws state, voted Bush President.

The half million votes undoubtedly courtesy of ACORN.

Al Gore went on to lie about global warning, gain 600 pounds putting pressure on our HC system and have carbon footprint bigger than most cities

“Yes, well. Barack Obama was elected president in a modern popular landslide of nearly 8 million votes. George W. Bush sued his way to the White House after losing the election by half a million votes.

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And, remains the single most notable defeat in modern history, even more so than “Dewey Defeats Truman”.
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Time to move forward, shep. Time to MoveOn!

Stuart, I hope you are coming around to understanding what I was saying the other day. It is absolutely useless to try to engage these people, they are insane by every measure we can see (we can’t know how bad functionality is without seeing their lives up close and I have no interest in that). In early psychological training everyone is taught to never argue with a patient. It’s like trying to teach a pig to sing; you get hoarse and it only confuses the pig.

That’s funny freep, I figured with Gore looking a little chunkier it would endear him to all the ditto heads. And freep, don’t you feel all dirty inside when you post your anti-government screeds on the DARPA-developed internets? Or was that OK because it was military research? If we made healthcare reform a military project would you become its most ardent supporter? Oh yeah, and how’s that 12-step program to help you break your addiction to government funded roads going? One day at a time, man. One day at a time…

shepherdwong
“It’s like trying to teach a pig to sing” or a liberal to think.

In an effort to eliminate lies from this blog, shep start with yourself. You don’t want to engage conservatives you want them to either agree with your insanity or just shut up and go away.

The President has tried that and it hasn’t worked out so well for him either.

“Time to move forward, shep. Time to MoveOn!”
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Thanks for the encouragement, rusty, it’s pedal to the metal time for us liberals. And here I thought that’s what was driving you and your fellow wingnuts right around the bend. Go figure.

pierogielunair (That’s Polish for potato head)

What’s with the obsession of roads? I guess you have some point rattling around your tin-foiled hat.

And sure if it was a military project we can perfect the death panel and use water boarding for your daily bath. Well first we would have to get you use to daily hygiene.

The price of research

Joe Klein: Why Shouldnt’ ObamaCare Cover Illegal Immigrants…

After plugging his latest column in a September 10 post on the magazine’s Swampland blog,
Time’s Joe Klein (shown in file photo at right) pegged Rep. Joe Wilson
(R-S.C.) as “vile” before defending taxpayer-funded health care for
illegal……

Au contra ire. They are cheering as you are careening straight into a wall—again.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results– Libs never learn

They are cheering as you are careening straight into a wall—again.
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Cool. So far we’ve saved the global economy, the American auto industry, foreign policy and we’re about to enact universal health care, finally bringing us up to par with the rest of the industrialized world. Just imagine what we’ll do in year two.

The truth is that once Obama gets health care reforms in place they will be instantly entrenched. Only Republicans who want to be put out to pasture will try and tamper with it. It will be like discussing medicare, social security or trying to repeal Bush’s drug plan….guaranteed electro-shock therapy results.

The protestations of Rusty and freeinpa not withstanding their opposition to the clear will of the majority of Americans just doesn’t matter. Sit back, enjoy the ride, and stay thirsty my friends!

Oh to have the simple mind of a liberal. And what do you you call people who break our countries laws and folks sworn to uphold our laws that aid and abet those folks?
freeinpa
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
….Landscapers…..

[...] plugging his latest column in a September 10 post on the magazine’s Swampland blog, Time’s Joe Klein (shown in file photo at right) pegged Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) as [...]

People in jail allowed access to health care, too. Taxpayer subsidized, even.

You think there’s literally no value at all to the commentary I produce when it’s in response to rightists, shepherdwong?

Expanding the Risk Pool with people who are not going tp pay or not have an employer pay a penalty is counter productive. I thought this was obvious. Does the author need a class in statistics?

Obama claims millions of people are dying because of lack of insurance and this must be rushed through rapidly. So why then does it not get implemented until 2013? Why wait 4 years? Answer is simple.. Partisan politics and election 2012. Dems do not want Americans to find out they got screwed until AFTER the 2012 elections and are willing to let people die in the meantime.

Obama was able to convince millions of moderates and independents that he was a centrist but rapidly moved to the extreme left and has lost those who put him over the top. This is the most radical administration in US History. There are NO former US Presidents to the LEFT of Obama . Would devout Anti Communist John F Kennedy hire Van Jones and admitted Communist? JFK would have slapped him silly. This is not the Dem party of my father and grandfather.

As we speak leftists like Oliver Stone are honoring Hugo Chavez in Venice while back home Chavez ministers have announced closures of dozens more opposition media outlets. Stop letting these Bolsheviks like Joe Klein brainwash you.

It makes zero sense to cover illegals. We need to refuse non life threatening conditions and deport those we treat. Insuring them creates a situation where we encourage millions more to come. Look at Europe which has invited 54 Million Muslims with Socialist freebies? How many cars did they burn in Paris?

[...] More info… Previous”You Lie”: Rep. Joe Wilson’s CongressionalBreach Next Iranamok LatestColumn Posted by Joe KleinThursday, September 10, 2009 at 7:24 am 69 Comments Trackback (1) About Obama’s speech.One other note: On this whole question of whether illegal immigrants will be included in the plan, which caused the vile Congressman from South Carolina to shout “You lie” when the President said they wouldn’t be covered. Why shouldn’t they be? After all, when an illegal immigrant cuts his hand [...]

[...] More info… Previous”You Lie”: Rep. Joe Wilson’s CongressionalBreach Next Iranamok LatestColumn Posted by Joe KleinThursday, September 10, 2009 at 7:24 am 69 Comments Trackback (1) About Obama’s speech.One other note: On this whole question of whether illegal immigrants will be included in the plan, which caused the vile Congressman from South Carolina to shout “You lie” when the President said they wouldn’t be covered. Why shouldn’t they be? After all, when an illegal immigrant cuts his hand [...]