In the Arena

Back to Health Care

Matt Yglesias does good service by reminding us of the 2003 Senate vote on Medicare Part D, the budget-busting prescription drugs for seniors bill that passed the Senate 54-44, even though it wasn’t paid for (it adds trillions to the deficit over time). Here’s the vote: it is interesting to note that the two Gang of Six members who are the most prominent naysayers and budget hawks on the Senate Finance Committee now, Chuck Grassley and Mike Enzi, voted for the bill. As did assorted other noisy conservatives like Sam Brownback, John Cornyn and John Kyl. What irresponsible spendthrifts!

Republicans who actually are deficit hawks–John McCain (usually) and Lindsey Graham, for example–voted against it. Many Democrats–Ted Kennedy, Russ Feingold, Hillary Clinton–also voted against it, mostly because they didn’t think it provided sufficient coverage (and let the drug companies off the hook).

But the headline remain grousers like Grassley, who oppose the alleged expense of the Obama plan now (even though the President has vowed not to sign a bill that isn’t, more or less, paid for). It should be noted that Max Baucus–who has also made non-stop noises about fiscal responsibility–voted for it, too.

More on Grassley: Todd Gitlin reports that Grassley was silent when a town meeting nutter called the President a Nazi and said he wanted to kill him. The Senator from Iowa is making a first-class fool of himself these days.

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  • rustyreturns

    “Many Democrats–Ted Kennedy, Russ Feingold, Hillary Clinton–also voted against it, mostly because they didn’t think it provided sufficient coverage (and let the drug companies off the hook).
    .
    Fair and balance reporting returns to TIME.com.
    .
    Thanks Joe, I think!

  • grape_crush

    …which should be all the indication anyone needs that the GOP isn’t serious about fixing what’s wrong with health care in this country.

    As for a couple of the reasons why the likes of Grassley might be choosing to gum up the works, try Kevin and Ezra…industry campaign contributions notwithstanding…

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Thanks for attention to this matter:
    My understanding of ecomics has always been based on the first law of thermodynamics,

    an expression of the principle of conservation of energy, states that energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed.

    Simply stated, it means that there is no such thing as a free lunch and everything of value eventually has to be paid for with interest.

    This puts me in a position of occasionally having sympathy toward arguments about fiscal responsibilty. The problem is the only politician who took fiscal responsibilty even remotely seriously was Bill Clinton. The Republicans in Congress don’t actually believe a single word of what they’re saying and NO ONE has sufficient courage to say that if we want government to pay for something we should just go ahead and levy the taxes necessary to do it.

    There are too many adherents of the Church of Reagan still floating around reciting their catechisms and ignoring simple truth.

  • rustyreturns

    “an expression of the principle of conservation of energy, states that energy can be transformed (changed from one form to another), but cannot be created or destroyed.”
    .
    Another consequence of this law is that perpetual motion machines can only work perpetually (Universal Healthcare, Public Options or other forms of socialized medicine) if they deliver no energy to their surroundings. If such machines produce more energy (cost more money) than is put into them, they must lose mass (rationing) and thus eventually disappear (people die from lack of care) over perpetual time, and are therefore impossible.
    .
    In more simpler terms; If the masses are included in the healthcare bill, eventually the “self-sustaining” idea proposed by Obama will never work, and this program will eventually cost TRILLIONS of dollars to the tax payer, the same as Medicare and Medicaid currently do.
    .
    But, I am at least glad that you recognize the simple reality of “pay as you go” for any government programs.

  • homerhk

    A thought about healthcare and so-called gang of six. if the three dem members of the gang of six were really ok to drop the public option and if – as the disappointed left keeps complaining – Obama is really going to drop the public option, why didn’t the gang of six just pass the bill without the public option before recess?

  • kathy

    To the extent any Republicans seem to be supporting anything at all right now it seems to be with an eye to making sure the government is enriching insurance companies, having successfully enriched the pharmaceutical companies at taxpayer expense.

  • tddalrymple

    Actually, Joe, if you bothered to read the entry by Todd Gitlin, it says that the local paper *did not report* Grassley’s response to the veteran. Mr. Gitlin asks him what his response was, or whether he gave one. Unless you know the answer to Gitlin’s question, you’re wrong to assume that Grassley “was silent.” Apparently Gitlin was not present; he was just responding to an account in a small Iowan newspaper.

    You’ve gotten a little carried away with your Grassley-bashing lately.

  • rustyreturns

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jlMpJGn28kqCcgU-aGcYE_ZHW-ywD99TO8MO2
    .
    “Top White House officials counseled Democratic senators Thursday on coping with disruptions at public events on health care this summer, officials said, and promised the party and allies would respond with twice the force if any individual lawmaker is criticized in television advertising.”
    .
    “Democrats have accused Republicans of sanctioning mob tactics, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., accused protesters of trying to sabotage the democratic process.”
    .
    All the polls show there is serious concern if not outright opposition, to the president’s health care plan,”, said Antonia Ferrier, spokeswoman for House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio. “Democrats are ginning up this cynical shell game.”
    .
    Enjoy reading kathy!

  • constantweader

    Thanks to you & Yglesias but Republicans have never considered hypocrisy one of the seven deadly sins. As for Grassley, the man says, “The President of the United States — that’s who you should be concerned about today because he’s acting like a little Hitler…. I’ll take a gun to Washington if enough of you would go with me.” The man gives the mic to Grassley who then casually chats about health care; at one point Grassley tells the potential presidential assassin, “But I do think you’re right from the standpoint of….” It boggles the mind that a United States Senator would segue from a threat to the life of the President to a calm discussion about health insurance. The Secret Service should put Grassley on their watch list, & they should not let him anywhere near the President.

    Don’t take my word for it. I’ve got the video, so decide for yourself. I think Grassley presents a clear & present danger.

    The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

  • http://evangelicalgateway.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/morning-report-august-27th-kennedycare-the-un-wants-to-teach-your-kids-about-sex-fair-weather-deficit-hawks-lucky-sanford-and-national-financial-ruin Morning Report, August 27th: KennedyCare, the UN Wants to Teach Your Kids About Sex, Fair-Weather Deficit Hawks, Lucky Sanford, and National Financial Ruin « Evangelical Gateway

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  • stuartzechman

    Dirks:
    .
    The problem with applying the fiscal responsibility argument (I think you may be overlooking Howard Dean’s record, btw) to the health care reform debate is that it is inapplicable unless we first examine health care pricing for market manipulation, failure or outright theft.
    .
    Unless we answer this question:


    Why is that we pay twice as much as every other country per person for health care?

    Total spending on health care, per person, 2007:
    .
    United States: $7290
    Switzerland: $4417
    France: $3601
    United Kingdom: $2992
    Average of OECD developed nations: $2964
    Italy: $2686
    Japan: $2581

    , we’ll just continue to debate the prudence of paying however much it happens to cost relative to the national debt, without ever stopping to get a better deal for our dollars.
    .
    The lack of questions (and answers) as to where all of that extra money is going is eerily similar to the treatment of the cost of our wars, don’t you think, Dirks?
    .
    When you correctly mention that “The problem is the only politician who took fiscal responsibilty even remotely seriously was Bill Clinton.“, the statement is true (as it was true of Howard Dean in Vermont, again btw), the part that is most correct, IMO, is that first he attempted to fundamentally address the part of our health care system that causes its pricing trends to resemble that of housing on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.
    .
    We cannot appropriately apply any sort of metaphorical law of conservation to the debate over reform and its costs without first answering the question “To whom is all of our money going?“, right, Dirks?

  • stuartzechman

    …It’s as if they were waiting for some event to happen that would change the balance of power in the Senate…as if they were waiting for the 60th filibuster-overcoming vote to disappear again somehow, so they could get back to normal “we can’t pass anything without Republicans” operations…
    .
    …What a strange coincidence!

  • homerhk

    what a cynic you are, Stuart!

  • shepherdwong

    “Matt Yglesias does good service by reminding us of the 2003 Senate vote on Medicare Part D, the budget-busting prescription drugs for seniors bill that passed the Senate 54-44, even though it wasn’t paid for (it adds trillions to the deficit over time).”
    .
    Why, did somebody forget or somehow otherwise not notice that all these Republican politicians are lying hypocrites? Oh, right. Thanks, Joe.

  • stuartzechman

    …and, BTW:
    .
    …as the disappointed left keeps complaining…
    .
    I think you mean to say “as principled progressives and elected representatives keep demanding on behalf of the overwhelming majority of their constituents“:

    In healthcare debate, 79% of public supports public option, but only 37% is able to identify it
    .
    Denver, Colorado, August 25, 2009 – A new poll finds that although 79% of respondents are in favor of the policy known as a “public option” when it’s included in a list of possible healthcare reforms, just 37% are able to correctly identify the much-discussed proposal from a list of possible definitions.
    .
    The research, which was conducted by Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates (PSB) and released exclusively at a health care forum featuring the National Journal’s Charlie Cook and underwritten by the AARP, PSB, and Burson-Marsteller, also revealed that 26% of Americans believe that the “public option” refers to the creation of a Great Britain-style national health care system.

    .
    A new survey commissioned by the AARP conducted by Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates asks respondents to what degree they support or oppose “[s]tarting a new federal health insurance plan that individuals could purchase if they can’t afford private plans offered to them” — a public option, in other words. The results are interesting, though not necessarily surprising to those who have been closely following the debate.
    .
    All: 79 percent favor/18 percent oppose
    .
    Democrats: 89 percent favor/8 percent oppose
    .
    Republicans: 61 percent favor/33 percent oppose
    .
    Independents: 80 percent favor/16 percent oppose (h/t MyDD)

    , don’t you, homerhk?

  • pierogielunaire

    The Republicans’ problem is that they have nothing but slogans and no interest in the nitty gritty of policy. They made a bold effort to govern solely with slogans during the Bush 43 years, and Medicare Part D was only one of the more obvious examples of profligacy. Now, safely in the minority, the GOP can turn back to their slogans with no concern about ever having to contribute to a serious policy discussion, and that’s all we are going to hear from them—empty slogans.

    “Fiscal Responsibility!” (Yea!)

    “Government-run _______!” (Boo!)

    “Keep America safe!” (Yea!)

    “Geneva Conventions!” (Boo!)

    That’s pretty much as deep as the GOP will get for the foreseeable future.

  • spob

    God I love Ann Coulter:

    http://www.anncoulter.com/

  • stuartzechman

    Wow, he’s such a liar.
    .
    Every time I read his lies, I wonder to myself “Is Ann Coulter a pathological liar because of <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2e8ltf, or is his transvestism a symptom of the pathology?

    For you newcomers to planet Earth, everything that does not exist in infinite supply is rationed. In a free society, people are allowed to make their own rationing choices.
    .
    Some people get new computers every year; some every five years. Some White House employees get new computers and then vandalize them on the way out the door when their candidate loses. (These are the same people who will be making decisions about your health care.)
    .
    Similarly, one person might say, “I want to live it up and spend freely now! No one lives forever.” (That person is a Democrat.) And another might say, “I don’t go to restaurants, I don’t go to the theater, and I don’t buy expensive designer clothes because I’ve decided to pour all my money into my health.”
    .
    Under national health care, you’ll have no choice about how to ration your own health care. If your neighbor isn’t entitled to a hip replacement, then neither are you. At least that’s how the plan was explained to me by our next surgeon general, Dr. Conrad Murray.

    .
    He’s so right!
    .
    In the Soviet Socialist Republic of Great Britain (where national health care was actually proposed, unlike here), if your neighbor isn’t entitled to a brain replacement transplant from an orangutan, then neither are you.
    .
    Thank God I don’t live in a totalitarian hellhole like England!
    .
    Thank the Lord I live in a free society like ours, in which people are allowed to make their own rationing choices about health care –so they can save up for operations, hospital stays, consultations and medication, instead of buying luxury yachts and expensive designer clothes designed for women’s bodies, like Ann!

    Medical bills led to two-thirds of bankruptcies in 2007, study finds
    .
    – Melissa Healy June 4, 2009 | 10:58 am Los Angeles Times
    .
    Nearly two-thirds of those filing for bankruptcy protection in 2007 cite illness and medical bills as having contributed to their financial failure, reports a study published in the American Journal of Medicine. And 77.9% of those bankrupted at least in part by illness and its expenses had private insurance at the beginning of their medical odyssey.
    .
    Two-third of those who were termed medically bankrupt were homeowners. Three-fifths had gone to college. In many cases, the researchers found, illness was followed by time lost from work, leading the filer to lose his or her job and, with it, health insurance coverage.
    .
    Those filing for bankruptcy due in part to illness averaged $17,943 in out-of-pocket costs. Such costs were highest for uninsured patients, whose medical expenses averaged $26,971. But patients who initially had private insurance but who lost it in the course of their illness were close behind, averaging $22,568 in out-of-pocket costs.

    .
    Hey, some people get a new colorful laptop every year for $500 from Dell, and other, smarter, mortgage-paying, college-educated people do the right thing and save up an extra $25,000 dollars per family member on top of the $3,000 to $4,000 per year they pay in premium contributions for their private, free-society insurance –before they get sick and can’t get coverage anymore!
    .
    It’s so clear to me now: All that Americans have to do to have access to quality medical care is not go to the theater as much as Ann Coulter does. Perfect! That’s not what economists call “price rationing”, that’s just people who are “allowed to make their own rationing choices“.
    .
    Where would our national political discourse be if it weren’t for brilliant, informed cross-dressers like Ann Coulter who explain to Americans how things really work in a free society like ours?

  • stuartzechman

    Since this URL should be clicked on, I’ll repost it (like Joe, Swampland’s WordPress hates Wikipedia).
    .
    Every time I read his lies, I wonder to myself “Is Ann Coulter a pathological liar because of his transvestism, or is his transvestism a symptom of the pathology?”

  • shepherdwong

    spob loves “conservative”, transvestite, pathological liars, shills for the insurance industry and traitors to the country? Who would have guessed?

  • mikew67

    It’s morally wrong to leave 100 million Americans un or underinsured, 1 illness away from financial ruin. And it’s wrong to burden small business with the outrageous insurance costs also — found a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth

  • pafro

    None of these clowns will get punished for this. If Enzi wants to say something to Time, he will be allowed to, won’t be challenged in any responsible way, and the uncomfortable stuff won’t be mentioned (and if it is, the non-answer by Enzi would be sufficient).
    FYI, Mike Enzi dodged the draft for Vietnam, then told the Casper Start Tribune in 2006 that the guy who took his place didn’t fight long enough.
    http://is.gd/2CIA3
    He is really classy.

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  • http://hotspyer.com/2011/07/31/cornyn-1-am-debt-ceiling-votes-dont-make-sense-but-medicare-d-ones-do/ Cornyn: 1 AM debt ceiling votes don’t make sense. (But Medicare D ones do!) | Hotspyer – Breaking News from around the web

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