In the Arena

Death Panels

Michael Scherer’s excellent interview with Ezekiel Emanuel below should be required reading, and so should Ezra Klein’s interview on Monday with Senator Johnny Isakson, who has made end-of-life counseling a personal cause. It is difficult to bear the nihilist cynicism of mainstream Republicans like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh on this issue. The cruelty inherent in scaring the elderly to score political points is beyond reprehensible. I’ve had recent personal experience with this issue. In fact…

I’ve spent quite a bit of time with my elderly parents–they’re both 89 and have been together since the age of 5–trying to help them steer their way through some difficult decisions, and trying to guarantee that their decisions about the rest of their lives will be honored, even if they have lost the ability to announce those decisions themselves. This isn’t easy. My mother and her two sisters are quite frail and entirely dependent on my father, who has made no specific plans about what should happen to them should he lose the ability to take care of them. He has a living will, he thinks. My mother has often said that if she becomes severely debilitated, “Just let me die.” But I’m not sure she has made that clear in a legal document. My father is reluctant to talk about these sensitive subjects and has resisted signing a power of attorney, to be activated if he becomes incapacitated. 

My father grew up during the Depression and like many of his peers, he doesn’t like spending money on services he suspects are unnecessary. End-of-life counseling on issues like living wills and powers of attorney is something he could clearly use–from a skilled professional who, unlike me, knows the best way to describe these things and the easiest way to enact them–and he would be more likely to take advantage of this service if it were offered free-of-charge, and regularly updated, by Medicare. Although, even then, I have to admit I’m not sure he’d want to take advantage of it. 

I could say a lot more about this situation, about the  details that make it particularly difficult, but those details are, of course, private. Suffice to say that I am personally appalled and outraged that Republicans like the nitwit Palin and the showbiz demagogues Limbaugh and Hannity have chosen this particular subject to exploit. It is an issue that needs sunlight and careful explanation. It involves the saddest and most lonely moments of life–and with a population living longer and longer, it is one that affects ever increasing numbers of parents and children. 

I can understand conservatives who oppose government activism as a matter of principle. They say they hold their beliefs as a matter of respect for the rights of the individual. But the sort of scurrilous campaign they are conducting–the seditious fear-mongering that is the main staple of their public diet–is a matter of profound disrespect and incivility toward the individuals whose rights they claim to cherish. The sort of people who would conduct such a campaign can only be described as ingrates.

Update: Senator Susan Collins who, being sane, exists outside the Republican mainstream on this issue, also supports end-of-life counseling, via Greg Sargent.

Related Topics: end of life issues, Health Care, Johnny Isakson, living wills, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Uncategorized
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  • donovong

    Joe: I certainly empathize with the situation with your parents. I went through a similar situation with my parents years ago, and would have been grateful for any assistance provided by Medicare. It is difficult enough to confront from an emotional, much less financial standpoint.

    There are far more descriptive and profane terms with which I could describe these @#%$ who distort these things to suit their needs, and I am glad that both you and MS (there, I said it!) are publicly calling them out for their distortions and outright lies. More truth please!

  • FlownOver

    From the Dead Horse Department:

    So why is no reporter confronting the seditious fear-mongers (at least the elected ones, or their official party representatives) with the demonstrable falsehood of their statements? When they refuse to repudiate the scare tactics these public figures become complicit in the offense – why do they continue to get passes from the media on the basic issue of their honesty?

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Thanks Joe,
    .
    That post exactly filled the gap I noticed in Michael’s article.
    .
    It never ceases to amaze me how much what can only be described as mythology still drives our thinking. Ronald Reagan of course rode the ‘government as demon’ wave for all it’s worth and it’s apparent that we still haven’t fully recovered from the damage he wrought in doing so.

  • bobell

    Wife and I are in our sixties, and both of us have living wills and durable powers of attorney. We have the same primary physician and plan to meet with him soon to discuss updates — whether Medicare pays or not. Perhaps because her own mother died of a lingering case of cancer in her nineties, my wife is insistent on a death with dignity. I’m ambivalent, but I’ll probably opt for much the same. Regardless, it’s comforting to know that we get to have the last word and don’t have to rely on the guesses of spouse or children.
    .
    There is, of course, nothing at all extraordinary about my situation, and having Medicare pay for the discussion with the doctor doesn’t alter anything except the size of my estate when I die (if that). That this could be distorted into a government plan to kill old people is beyond reprehensible.
    .
    As one who has been there, I totally sympathize with your situation, Joe. To which I would add that there are untold millions of Americans in the same or similar positions. It is uniquely cruel to the people who must face such decisions to be told that they must avoid them lest Uncle Barack march them off to the gallows. It is uniquely necessary for the media to expose these lies. Thank God for such as you, who tell it straight.

  • timkevrog

    As someone who recently experienced the death of my mother, I can testify that the services offered through Hospice care, which is paid for by medicare, are invaluable. I do not think I could have handled the situation without their help.
    It is troubling to see so many protesters yelling about the evils of government run health care who do not seem to understand that the medicare benefits they rely upon come from the government. If health care was strictly private how many of them could afford the premiums? How many would be dropped for bogus reasons because they are sick?
    How many refuse to go on medicare because it is a government run program. If it is so bad why do they participate? Nobody is forcing them to go on medicare.

  • pflatley

    As much as the media has failed us with their timid, lazy, he said/she said reporting over the years, this has perhaps been their most poisonous hour. I deeply appreciate you engaging in facts and delivering unvarnished truth. Unlike your colleagues, you don’t feel compelled to quote the Flat Earth Society in a story about the earth’s shape. What a concept.

  • pbmama

    I think it’s all well and good to praise Joe for his ‘exposure’ of the lies and deceit, but isn’t he just preaching to the choir? At what point does the MSM really step up and tell these fear mongers to stick a sock in it?

    I know we on the coasts, we latte liberal elites, poke fun at those ‘real Americans’, to whom Ms. Palin gives so much credence; but seriously, aren’t you all starting to get at least a little frightened as to the shear gullibility of the people hanging our elected representatives in effigy at the townhall meetings?

    It appears these folks make up a fair number of our population, and I, for one, and scared to death that they may actually have some influence on this process.

    I hope the folks we elected to represent us are strong enough to withstand the assault, and do what is right by all – not just what’s right for the money grubbers.

    But really my point is…why does the MSM feel compelled to give ‘equal air time’ in this (or any) argument? When did the job of the news hounds become nothing but regurgitation of what other people are saying? Aren’t journalists supposed to get to the truth, and tell us what they find, whether they think it’ll sell products and ad slots or not?

  • pafro

    Isakson had already flip-flopped before you wrote this.

  • copperhair

    Joe,
    It is so frustrating that we are in the situation where “New people” have the ability to report things that are so distorted. The reason that I commented though, is that I wanted to say how important it was for folks to actually get this counseling from a professional. This type of document needs to be VERY specific.
    My father has gone through three years of Cancer treatment and things were really bad for him during a series of surgeries this past winter. After surgery they wanted to put him on a respirator and a feeding tube. They wanted to do this temporarily, to help him get his strength back. This was not the normal going downhill, not going to get better situation- but I had a couple of family members that questioned whether he should have these inserted, as his wish was not to have them(in his living will). I had to go in and have a very painful discussion with him at a point where we all feared for his life.
    I am very happy to report that he is now cancer free, has gained his weight back and is back to his normal routine. I am thankful that he had some lucid moments to be able to have that conversation, but it was a terrible thing as I didn’t want him to think I was giving up on him, or that I might know something he didn’t. At that point I wanted him to fight and I literally was trying to will him my strength! My sister on the other hand, had lost her husband five years before, after a long battle with the EXACT SAME type of Cancer.
    I Know that it is important that these documents not be a simple statement that you do not want “extraordinary measures.” There were lots of folks there placed on a breathing or feeding tube that later had them removed and left the hospital. Thanks for allowing me to share.

    Jean

  • njpm

    These two blogs tell you everything you need to know about why end of life planning is so important.

    http://blogs.courant.com/colin_mcenroe_to_wit/2009/08/my-mothers-death-panel.html

    and

    http://evimedgroup.blogspot.com/2009/08/whats-really-killing-grandma.html

  • pflatley

    Building on the previous statement, we’ve got the New York Times not writing stories that repeat over and over in clear language that the “death panel” rumor is 100% false, but rather stories about how the perception of “death panels” might end up impeding passage of the health care plan. One expects this from a gossip rag like Politico, but at least they admit to their prostitution. But the Times? My parents are fortunate enough to know better, but they have many well-intentioned friends who are scared to death right now because they simply aren’t receiving the facts. It’s so depressing.

  • constantweader

    Joe, I have the deepest sympathy for your situation as well as personal experience in dealing with end-of-life decisions for my mother. Fortunately, her brother was of great help & counsel in nudging her to prepare for the inevitable. She was willing to pay for the necessary legal services, but if your parents think these services are superfluous, why not indulge them & arrange for a lawyer “friend” to discuss these matters with them. I don’t know what they pay you over there at Time, but I’ll bet it’s enough to pop for the necessary documentation to guide you in how to handle your family members’ last days. Carrying out their wishes, even when you know what they are, will still be incredibly difficult.

    The Constant Weader at http://www.RealityChex.com

  • carotexas1

    Joe thank you for this post.
    Your parents like mine lived through the depression and the second World War. My father had always controlled the finances and my mother had no idea nor us what the bank balance was.

    We really worried as his health deteriorated and tried to suggest a Power of Attorney. He held out until close till the end, when his doctor finally talked about these issues. We were very grateful as then our Mother did so as well.

    My parents passed away last year within months of each other. My father was able until the end with my sister’s help to go to the bank and take care of his business.

    I am very disappointed that reporters did not jump on this issue, immediately. They only had to research the bill to put a stop to a story that was frightening our senior citizens.

  • ohiolib

    Joe, there are two very simple reasons why this continues: money, and votes. As long as Rush can make money by ranting about socialists and conspiracy theories, he’ll keep ranting. And as long as the Rs think they can scare up one or two more votes than they chase away, they’ll keep fear-mongering and screaming. Those two things will ensure that the insanity continues.

  • destor23

    Does anyone know how the congressional health plans handle end of life issues? Because that’d be a good place to start for a standard.

  • pflatley

    Although Joe Klein is a columnist and not a straight news reporter, hopefully he offers his colleagues some insight into such a transition. It wasn’t long ago that Klein was a frustrating combination of Alan Colmes and Joe Lieberman – he simultaneously projected the timidness of the former and the smug superiority of the latter. Somewhere along the line (US Attorneys thing? Battles with Commentary?) he transformed into an essential read and my favorite political writer. He just writes clearly and tries to get at the truth. Here’s to hoping that his colleagues embark on a similar journey.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Notably, the idea that Medicare is not a government program has long been one of those funny anecdotal stories bandied about by members of the public opinion community. And yes, Paul Dirks, we’ve always attributed this phenomenon to the effective selling ability of Ronald Reagan. Sadly, this is what people do, especially among those of the older generation. Rather than believe someone who is an iconic figure, someone they’ve grown to trust is lying to them, as in the case of Reagan, they believe what we would assume is unbelievable, that the program they know is a government program must really be a secret private program.
    .
    This is why Madeoff got away with his ponzi scheme for so long and this is why con men target the elderly. It’s not that they are intellectually challenged, although some can grow less sharp with age. However, the real cause is that the messages directed to them are framed to appeal to that sense of trust from days gone by, knowing full well once trust is established, even things that might sound suspicious on its face, sounds so much less so to the person whose been the victims of a con. It’s the same reason Democrats kept hitting there head against a brick wall back in 2004, trying to convince the public that Bush was lying to them, they should have gone with incompetent that would have been easier to digest. I bring this up only to further magnify what has already been said here. I hear words like reprehensible, unconscionable and egregious and while they try to connote the depth to which these fear mongerers have sunk in order to gain political advantage. It just doesn’t seem to capture my disgust with those individuals who take advantage of the elderly population with their lies. Yes I said the word lie, lie, lie, not mislead, falsehood, myth or inaccuracies, but deliberate, bald face, big fat sweaty lies. As for me, I agree with donovong and just use @#%$ to describe the architects of this terror strategy.
    .
    Personally, JK I can empathize with your situation. I just had a discussion this week with my 94 year old Dad about this very thing. And though I told him outright he does not have my permission to pass on, just in case he decides to be rebellious, there’s some things that we needed to work out so that I couldn’t continue my annoying habit of having the last word. You see my dad is somewhat less confrontational than my mom who wrote everything she wanted down in a letter to us and signed with a P.S. warning us that any deviations from her wishes would be met with instant and severe haunting. Lucky for me we have a tradition of humor in my family to help us to discuss difficult subjects, but like everyone else we were still procrastinating. Perhaps a letter from Medicare notifying a person of this new coverage might spark more to tackle this issue before it is too late and they become the political issue de jour a la Terri Schiavo.

  • palininatowel

    This kind of inanity reveals just how far the FOX News-ization of media outlets has gone. As pflatley points out above, <i.The New York Times spends far more ink covering the effects of the “death panel” falsehood than it does debunking this garbage.

    And what doe the electronic media cover? The shouting. Period. Conflict sells. MSNBC must have been jumoing for joy when their camera operator spotted the guy with the gun strapped to his leg near the Obama rally yesterday. They even put the clown on with Chris Matthews.

    Blaming the media is easy, but we also get what we deserve. Simplistic nonsense rules the airwaves — from inane reality shows to celebrity worship — and the American public can’t seem to get enough.

    No wonder the drug companies and the insurance giants and the financial industry can control what comes out of Washington. The public doesn’t want to be bothered with details.

    Cheney/Bush made hay out casting every issue as black/white, good/evil with no shades of gray. They were simply playing to what the masses want.

  • palininatowel

    And so much for proofreading before hitting post…

    One other point…

    I think an awful lot of the town hall shouters are folks who just cannot get over the fact that we elected an African-American president. The health care debate simply gave them an issue on which to hang their hats.

  • pflatley

    Yeah, one suspects that these cries of “I want my country back!” are not expressions of rage at the prospect of a public option.

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    The way this entire matter has been politicized explains why the Healthcare system is the shape that it is to date. Poliitics has trumped reason and so many who are hysterical do not even understand the proposed reform and are basing their rejection of same on “conjecture” and politically driven chaos. Bedlam deliberately unleashed to undermine an issue which should be logically and thoroughly analyzed.

    In dealing with the authorities to date in trying to apprehend Shay Riley of the “Black Female Interracial Marriage ” and get justice for her ongoing criminality against me.

    Criminality she daily unleashes through illegal wiretapping of my phone and malevolently co-opting my life through activating my microphone as a listening device and using of Trojans and other spyware in a perniciously wicked manner to track, stalk and brutally assault me, I have found indepth investigations limited by certain regulations and politically imposed restrictions. Restrictions that have left this woman free to date.

    It seems politics is at the helm of our very lives and if it benefits the big businesses, then creating change becomes a lengthy and complex process.

    I know that Obama, like me and other people who seek change and justice, will forge ahead in doing the right thing.

  • pelhamite1

    I think about an old family friend who died a few months ago. He was a rough, tough old New Hampshire businesman who skiied, hiked, chopped wood, all those outdoory things, and was a pretty deep red Republican to boot. And when he got sick and went into the hospital, and the doctors asked him about life extending measures, he is quoted as saying “If you guys screw up my chance to go quickly and quietly, so God help me, I’ll rise up out of this bed and strangle you!” He’d had a good full life (side note: complete with coming to terms with his daughter’s “coming out”) and didn’t want to live in any kind of semi-comotose state. So it is worth noting that the idea of dying with dignity is not a partisan issue, that for many (not all) it is a profoundly humane act and should be nothing to get crazy about. Unless, of course, crazy is your normative state. The way this issue was demgogued off the table is another example of this country’s inability to have a thoughtful conversation about the tougher issues. Thanks, again, Fox News.

  • FlownOver

    Sadly we’ve reached a point where mere corrective accuracy is completely ineffective. Most people regard news sources as fungible, and if thy see something scary in Tinfoil Online they weigh it equally against a contradiction in the NYT. The result is a random choice of what to believe, with resulting perpetuation of the lie.

    The only effective correction would come from putting a face on the right wing lies, and forcing the liars to acknowledge they have no honest basis for their political terrorism. Make Palin or Bachman or Inhofe PROVE what they claim – ask the follow-up question, and don’t accept a dodge in place of an answer. Make them identify their sources. Make them acknowledge publicly they either don’t know what they’re talking about, or they don’t care.

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    It is always GUT WRENCHING to see the effects of politicizing issues which are deeply personal and private. The Conservative press have latched on to one issue which they believe will provide them the support required to prevent a real debate about the proposed reform.

    What amazes me the most is how so many people have allowed themselves to become swayed by rhetoric. I am willing to wager that most of those who scream the loudest at these town hall meetings have no idea about the full contents of the President’s proposed reform.

    All I see on TV is brawling and shouting from people who harp on an issue(death panels) which many refuse to discuss in a logical manner.

  • http://www.bernadette-k.com animalartist

    Under the premise that any offer that “sounds too good to be true” probably is, the corollary is that any statement that “sounds too bad to be true” probably is as well. Oddly, people tend to be highly skeptical of the the “too good” statements, but fall entirely for the “too bad” statements, a habit that manipulative fear-mongers use to their greatest advantage.

    Despite my consistent efforts to at least have a durable power of attorney and some idea of health and property issues, my mother would not consider even discussing it. She was diagnosed with lung cancer and barely survived the surgery, and because I had no legal rights, but decisions still had to be made and bills paid, I went through the court process of becoming her legal guardian at my own expense, which made placing her in a personal care home, selling her home and her possessions and managing her care, as well as that of my disabled brother, much more expensive and time-consuming for me and for her. I am self-employed and can manage my time, but this was overwhelming and the time it takes to be a guardian instead of power of attorney is a constant drag on my finances. Any employer would rightly lose patience with the amount of time it takes to manage the lives of these two, so a day job is no solution.

    If a professional had come along and told my mother “you should do this”, she eventually would have followed through with POA and other decisions. Generational and financial objections aside, no one likes to talk about this. However, if we don’t make our wishes clear ahead of time, we might end up like Terry Schiavo who had her end-of-life decision splashed over all the media by grandstanding members of Congress with no means protecting herself, and we still wouldn’t have the outcome we had in mind for ourselves.

  • shepherdwong

    “I can understand conservatives who oppose government activism as a matter of principle. They say they hold their beliefs as a matter of respect for the rights of the individual.”
    .
    Good lord, Joe, what’s that bone about? Are you saying that you don’t know that it’s all about money and power with these people and they are simply lying when they claim there’s some principle behind it? Hard to take your outrage seriously when you throw out that sort of massively disproved garbage along with it.

  • jymallyn

    The Republicans and other conservatives whackos DO have a free enterprise version of a medical and health care plan. It is called “Soylent Green.”

  • pflatley

    Excellent point, FlownOver. This tactic should also be used by congressmen at their town hall hatefests. I read recently a story of one congressman who, after being on the receiving end of a typical marxist/communist/fascist/etc. rant, calmly asked the concerned citizen for his suggestions to improve heath care. Stunned, he stood silently until one of his fellow constituents broke the silence by saying, “TORT REFORM!” to which the gentleman replied, “YEAH, TORT REFORM!”

  • georgiac

    Yes, FlownOver (#2)–why aren’t people being asked for citations for their claims? Critics like to complain (probably appropriately?) that Congress members haven’t even “read the bill,” but I’ve not seen one asked whether he/she has read the bill and can provide evidence that his/her claims are true.

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    “Flown over”:

    What you have suggested is not pragmatic. You cannot make any of the people listed do anything. One thing for sure is that you cannot put words in their mouths either. It is apparent that the entire series of events surrounding the healthcare “me lee” is politically motivated and promoted. The real solution lies in educating the public through forums such as this one.

    When I started in my quest to apprehend Shay Riley of the “Black Female Interracial Marriage blog”, I was Struck by how much misinformation was out there regarding online predators and Pedophiles.

    It was startling to find that there is really nothing “Prophylactic” in place which protects law abiding adults and children from falling prey to illegal wiretaps and violent criminal stalkers like this woman and her accomplices. Also, many in law enforcement do not understand the web and what is on it– so this further enables predators spread falsehoods and engage in a campaign of misrepresentation and evasion.

    Can they be quieted, probably not.

    The best thing I have found is to continue to speak out against these types of online THUGS and eventually justice will be done. In effect, I am stating that I firmly believe that truth always will trump lies if it is presented in a logical manner.

  • maurice2u

    “Blaming the media is easy, but we also get what we deserve. Simplistic nonsense rules the airwaves — from inane reality shows to celebrity worship — and the American public can’t seem to get enough.”
    .
    Have to give a nod to this. I mean, we like to toss around names like “lawyers”, “the media”, “the government” …. but last I checked those are just jobs. Jobs that are filled by people we went to school with. In other words, the culprits are “us”. Sure, with 300 million plus people there are varying values and shades of gray, but at the end of the day (as an overall collective) we created and allow this mess to perpetuate itself.
    .
    No god, alien, or terrorist came in and made this mess. We did it to ourselves. And we just “can’t seem to get enough.”

  • John Royal

    Yeah, I just saw that. Isakson has already had his call-to-Rush moment and denounced himself earlier today.

  • http://theblindspotsofgod.wordpress.com lawyermommy

    “Maurice2″

    We have had enough, this is the reason the President decided to reform the system. President Obama, is a politician and it is unlikely he would have taken on the Healthcare system if he felt it was not inline with the desire of his constituents (us). He also knows he will come out on top in this matter. I believe that he should have anticipated the response from the far right and so is prepared for it. Debate is a normal part of the political process and desperate far right wingers will do anything to detract from any good work the President tries to do.

    So no matter what the feelings are among a loud and vocal few, the majority want something better. From experience, I am certain that in the end, logic and reason will reign supreme. Obama will succeed–I laud his courage in taking on this issue. I am glad that I voted for him.

  • lupercal5

    while i equally sympathize with joe, i think that if that’s the strategy for defeating the mischaracterizations, we’ve already lost.
    .
    we tend to think that all of this is just manufactured anger. Well no, the facts are manufactured. But when those organizations send them as FACTS and pretending to be from congressional offices of congresspersons, and all democrats do is call them out in the national media which may or may not reach the constituents, you’ve got a serious problem.
    .
    we can’t win this war from 10,000 feet. why isn’t there a very aggressive effort in congress to mail their all the constituents they can with succinct, short bulletted points what health care reform is about as well as pre-empting those vile tactics by the repubs? why aren’t all the leftwing groups making more of an effort to organize people as their primary objective, you know, have canvasses to distribute literature, talk to seniors instead of primarily being concerned with DC ads? (it’s important but…)

  • pafro

    Did you catch the part of McCaskill’s meeting yesterday where she started talking about how awesome tort reform supposedly is, and all the baggers were sternly nodding in agreement?
    She then veered to noting that their state had already enacted tort reform, and calmly asked how many people’s health care had gotten less expensive because of it.
    I swear you could hear the stupid whirring around in the baggers brains.

  • pflatley

    Ha – that’s great. Now imagine if we got into a discussion about our “socialized” military…

  • heatshield

    All of a sudden “scaring the elderly” is reprehensible. Where was this article during every election cycle where leftists keep accusing Republicans of wanting to kill old people, starve children, end welfare, medicare and Social Security? I didn’t hear the “R” word then.

  • pflatley

    Which makes you intellectually honest for recognizing how reprehensible this is now despite not having heard it then from the other side.

  • melissamsouza

    Joe, I also have elderly parents who are thankfully still active and healthy and I sympathize enormously with your situtation. I just wish that more people like you would come and speak out, not just on blogs, but in the televised media and, especially, the town hall meetings. My impression is that the pro-reform movement is being taken for a ride by the Birther-Nutwing-Socialism mob terrorizing the town halls. It is quite obvious that by the looks of these people, as well as their sounds, they are the same crowd at the McCain-Palin rallies who appalled Republicans to the point of John McCain himself having to tell them, in essence, to shut up. Their “arguments” are the same–red-faced, obese, haggard-looking white people screaming about the Constitution, socialism and totalitarianism (in the same breath), and “This is America!” (That was what one of the McCain kooks screamed at his campaign rally). Most of these people are clearly not serious about their protests–they are just terrified of an African-American President named Obama and the seismic shifts he both represents and is attempting to put into place as he governs. It is up to you, your colleagues, your allies in all walks of life to pull a McCain–and put these people in their places. Fox Noise and Rush won’t stop–this is War to them. So it is up to the (until now) relatively silent majority to speak up, and fight fire with fire.

  • melissamsouza

    Agreed. Perfect comment. In the midst of all the hysteria, the yelling and screaming, the downright meaness, the hyper-ventilating media obsessed with negativity, gotcha! and “declining” poll numbers (Mr. Obama’s poll numbers are perfeclty alright for the perfect storm he inherited), people tend to forget how courageous and honest the President has been by actually sticking to his campaign promise and taking on this mammoth hornet’s nest of an issue. He dove head-on, and there is no turning back until he reaches the finish line. He has received too much criticism, even from his allies, for all the compromises he has had to make in order to get this done. This is unfair–big pharma and big insurance are major players in this game, whether we like it or not, and it is absolutely naive to think that a major health care bill would get done by pulling the rug from under them. This would be impossible, and unfair, considering the stake that these industries hold in health care, the number of people they employ and the myriad interests they touch. I believe, in the end, we might not get a perfect health care bill (this is almost impossible given the nature of how the system evolved and the entrenched interests attached to it), but we will get a good health care bill. I have faith in our President. I hope the nay-sayers can give us a respite of about fifteen minutes once this bill is passed and signed.

  • pflatley

    Additionally, it seems to me that we’re in the process of seeing some classic Obama political jujitsu in pitting the insurance company against big pharma. Demonize the former, co-opt the latter (HuffPo would certain use “sellout” or “placate”), and get this thing passed.

  • cincinnatus est exterminata!

    “We have a media request for an event this week that will have lots of energy and lots of anger. This is for CNBC.”
    -Tea Party Patriots national coordinator Jenny Beth Martin
    http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/email_tea_baggers_hoping_for_riot_at_rep_scotts_to.php?ref=fpblg

    .
    “Of course, the White House counsel’s office had to sign off. Of course, an administration in its last two years looks for some fresh blood to inject into jobs. Of course, DOJ’s analysis of prosecutors goes beyond performance evaluations to achievements or failures on policy issues like immigration.
    I think we can get this just right with your help.”
    .
    -Washington Post ‘Reporter’ John Solomon to the White House after the DOJ Atty scandal broke.
    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/in_the_woodward-bernstein_tradition.php?ref=fpblg
    .
    How much more proof do you need that the corporate media is in on it? Why do you keep coming here and feeding this god awful blog and it’s corporate overseer? LET IT DIE PEOPLE. When Tumluty’s brother in law dies, you can come back and leave your condolences in what will surely be a poignant post, but until then, you are rewarding the enemy by giving them page hits and comment numbers. Enough already.

  • pflatley

    Yeah, hopefully Joe updates this post. It seems as though Ezra just got Isakson drunk and was able to get him to speak “adult” for a few minutes.

  • http://whatchannelareyouwatching.com Stephen Fofanoff

    I completely agree. And it is time that the media (responsible journalists) start using FACTS to correct this situation. It is just as irresponsible of other journalists who don’t directly challenge this behavior as it of the ones who perpetrate it in the first place.

  • freeinpa

    Not only should the elderly be scared but every American. Talking like Pres Obama or Dr. Rahm is interesting but highly untruthlful. Read the actual House Bill 3200. Attached is a link from A Duke Univ Professor of Classics. He felt this is too important not to have read it. His take is simple care will be rationed, private insurance will be a thing of the past, you will be taxed, and any aspect of privacy you hope to have will be gone. The media like Joe get a tingle up thier leg for Obama and when confronted with the truth mock, name call and be-little those who confront them with facts.

    Read it and weep (I Did) http://sweetness-light.com/archive/what-the-health-care-bill-actually-says

  • pflatley

    I appreciate you linking to the opinions of a Professor of Classics, but I only listen to Professors of Art History and Geology when it comes to understanding health care policy.

  • freeinpa

    I would rather listen to the local high school gym teacher on health care than the President, Congress or the main stream media. Chances are higher the gym teacher actaully read the bill

  • pflatley

    Evidence does suggest that you’ve adhered strictly to this policy of judging credible sources of information.

  • freeinpa

    It is snotty responses like that and those in the media and Congress that has citizens of both parties up in arms.

    The one truthful statement Obama made about government was its outstanding work in running the Post Office. At least with the post office they only lose your mail people don’t typically die from that government atrocity

  • juniusredivivus

    Freeinpa, your mother wants you to do the dishes now. Hopefully you aren’t planning to shoot her for overregulating your life.

  • freeinpa

    juniusredivivu..

    What a rapier like with (Have a 5th grader explain it to you)

    Took no time at all for th elibs to revert to idiotic name calling no wonder you need to government to wipe your butt

  • http://www.ninjamonkies.net/index.php/site/comments/wow11/ Ninja Monkie Bacchanal

    Wow…

    If you are at all interested in the health care "debate", Joe Klein suggests this as mandatory reading. So do I: Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the medical ethicist and oncologist who advises President Obama, does not own a television, and if you catch…

  • juniusredivivus

    Wit, not with, son. Have a second-grader explain it to you. Here in America, we speak English.

  • deconstructiva

    …unless English is learned from Sylvester the Cat.

  • Cliff

    What a rapier like with
    .
    That sums freeinpa’s position up nicely, I think.

  • shepherdwong

    “Senator Susan Collins who, being sane, exists outside the Republican mainstream…”
    .
    Nicely put and there’s no need to modify the concept any further.

  • freeinpa

    Cliff:

    I blame it on my public school education -you know higher wages lower expectations. The same one that gave us the current president that visited 58 states

  • juniusredivivus

    No, no, this is all wrong. The talking-point is 57 states. Can’t you follow Chairman Limbaugh’s instructions? And you don’t emphasize Obama’s public education – you are supposed to talk up his connections to elite liberal institutions like Harvard. Get with the program, loser!

  • freeinpa

    57 58 Again public education delivered by union mob bosses. The number that matters is 50. If that was Bush that said it Little Chrissy Matthews and Olberdunce would still be playing it to their audience of 12 people (PS That’s 2 more than the number of digits on both your hands)Yes our first affirmative action president. How else does a C student from Columbia get into Harvard. And with him as President we are all losers

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Well, you sure are a loser, freepie. You gotta stop repeating old talkingpoints. This week we are doing deathpanels, socialist medicine, the imminent murder of granny. What does it take to get you to use that pointy little head of yours and get with the program? Do we have to cut off your supply of RedState toiletpaper? C’mon, move that ass!

  • Cliff

    That’s odd, freeinpa, the gummint done learnt me how to spell sumthin fierce, how come it didn’t take with you?

  • freeinpa

    the maverickfor:

    That ass would be you! Oh so your new talking points came in. Who read them to you?

    Any liberal dimwit please explain how with 80% of the medical care costs come at the end of life do you pay it for without raising taxes on everyone or rationing health care. Or and I will save you finding someone to read lib talking points to you Because Obama said so doens;t count!

  • pflatley

    To think of how many more things could have been screwed up by freeinpa with a high school education at Exeter, undergrad at Harvard, and post-graduate at Oxford. Instead he’s just mumbling to himself on the internet. Thank god for a subpar public educational system.

  • freeinpa

    If you are thankful for me mumbling on the internet, since you are responding it does speak volumes for all of you self annointed pompous asses

  • pflatley

    After a moment of self-reflection, I’ve concluded that it says that I’m procrastinating at work. Nothing more, sadly.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Could somebody translate this into English, please?

  • pflatley

    They took our jobs.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    No, when we read your illiterate scrawls, it’s just the same emotion one feels when watching a dog licking its own ass. Mild revulsion, and gratitude that there is a better way.

  • freeinpa

    I’ll use small words so you libs can understand. I know I know a big leap of faith.

    Health Care reform (or health insurance reform according to Dummos talking points) without higher taxes on everyone and care rationed (or death panels if it makes you feel superior) will be impossible with out Obama breaking his never ending record breaking increases in the deficit. Unless he has a magic wand in the White House. Check with Rahm I know he has a tutu

  • freeinpa

    the maverick

    sounds like you have expereince with your dog. One would expect better taste in canines than a liberal

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    Son, you have to stay on message. Do I really have to call your master-bot and report you? Stick to the talking-points and don’t get drawn into fights for which you lack the language skills. We ain’t paying you 2 bucks an hour to waste time making an ass of yourself.

  • Cliff

    Maybe you can anser something for me. Why is it that the stupidest f–king assh*les seem to come from Pennsylvania?
    .
    I had a roommate from Allentown, PA, that was (and probably is) the stupidest man on God’s green earth. Combined with you and rusty, I’m seeing a disturbing pattern.

  • juniusredivivus

    You haven’t even mentioned Rick Santorum yet, Cliff. You know, the dog-marrier…

  • freeinpa

    Well my work is done. Two more dim witted pieces of liberal crap (Oops forgive my redundancy) can feel superior. I am sure in your sorry lives you never get that chance. Glad you can see patterns maybe when Mom gets your new coloring book you might stay in the lines.

    PS Your roomate from Allentown must have been dumb. I would have smothered you with a pillow. Gee that would be an early test of Obama Care

  • freeinpa

    Mav

    No need to stay on message I can deal with several topics at once. Keep trying. Aim high maybe one day you will be able to feed yourself

  • Cliff

    Woo! Death threat from an Internet Tough Guy! High fives, everyone!

  • juniusredivivus

    Have fun with your weekly tongue-bath, Rusty. Just make sure you get all the santorum off your ass. And next time, work on the real talking-points, okay?

  • juniusredivivus

    Ah yes, the infamous death-panel of Rusty. How I shake in my shoes!

  • freeinpa

    Mary Poppins is a tough guy compared to you big metrosexual libs. Naomi Wolfe would be proud

  • juniusredivivus

    You may be right – but do we need to know about your boyfriend? Stick to the talking-points, Rusty.

  • freeinpa

    Hey juniusredivivu… FYI

    high five is just one paw

  • juniusredivivus

    Well, it ought to go well with your one brain-cell and single testicle then.

  • uclamatt

    What Obama and his supporters fail to understand is that opponents to this plan are not uniformly extremists. It’s a nice diversionary tactic to play with ‘journalists’. However, anyone with half a brain can see the logical progression that is not talked about and scary to freedom lovers.
    .
    ANY plan with a government option will put private insurance out of business in 2-3 years.
    .
    The reason being is that insurance companies stay in business by insuring people that do NOT need insurance. The 20-30 year olds at my company would all jump to the government option. “Cheaper and just as good? Yes, please”. If this group leaves private insurance, private rates would skyrocket.This would force everyone to the public option putting every private insurance company out of business. In 5 years max you’d have Single Payer for sure. With single payer you have ‘too big to fail’ and we saw where that brought us – not to mention rationing.
    .
    For those who say there is no alternative – you are wrong. Step 1 – Tort reform – no more ‘jackpot’ jury awards that enable insurance companies to justify high rates. The doctors are licensed by the states. If they are no good – revoke their license. Step 2 – Real insurance regulation. Similar to credit cards charging 35% in interest or predatory pricing in disasters, there needs to be real transparency on fees. Step 3 – Federal regulatory body to arbitrate between insurance companies, drug companies and hospitals. The games played here are a joke. Hospitals bill double in hopes of collecting half. Step 4 – Allow drug companies to ‘buy’ longer patent protection in exchange for lowering prices or donating to 3rd world countries.
    .
    A free market system with clear rules and responsible regulation is the only answer.

  • freeinpa

    juniusredivivu

    That makes me one up on both counts to you then

  • freeinpa

    uclamatt:

    Careful the libs here don’t take kindly to common sense and reason. The name calling will commence at once

  • juniusredivivus

    I see you failed basic math as well as English, Rusty.

  • juniusredivivus

    I see. So in the name of the free market, we have to bankrupt our seniors, or deny them access to the healthcare they need and deserve? Have you explained this to your grandparents?

  • juniusredivivus

    He’s doing better on the talking-points than you are. So far he’s got a McCain ’08 bumper sticker and an entry into the “Meet Sarah Palin and Levi Johnson” contest. Back to work, Rusty!

  • uclamatt

    I went to UCLA – I know their kind. They believe in heroes instead of process which is why they always be let down in the end.
    .
    Its the Soros “do-gooder” mentality that makes you feel good for the moment, but never brings lasting change. The ultimate disrespect is to do for someone what they can and should do for themselves. The ultimate compassion is to give anonymously to someone that receives anonymously.

  • freeinpa

    juniusredivivu

    And who does your talking points. The Teleprompter in chief?

  • uclamatt

    juniusredivivu,

    Rationing is a reality in a world of scarcity. I prefer the rationing to be my choice as opposed to someone elses.

    A single payer system will deny access to more people faster than any other alternative.

    Did you even read my cost saving options?

  • Cliff

    They believe in heroes instead of process
    .
    Hey, do you remember that part of the GOP primaries where the candidates competed to be the most like Reagan?

  • freeinpa

    you are to be commended for surviving ucla. feeling good is better than doing is there motto

  • freeinpa

    lib problem is they can’t tell the truth as to what they want or be. proof is obama if all the crap he is selling now he would have gotten less votes than Bin Laden

  • uclamatt

    Speaking of cowboys. I came across my favorite Roy Rogers quote yesterday – “I’m not a member of an organized political party – I’m a democrat.” He said that almost a hundred years ago.

  • freeinpa

    uclamatt

    or
    if at 20 you are not a liberal you have no heart
    if at 30 you are not a conservative you have no brain

  • Cliff

    So you’re saying you would rather vote for Bin Laden than Obama?

  • juniusredivivus

    And if you can’t write English or do math, you become a Republican troll called Rusty.

  • juniusredivivus

    Cliff, surely you realize that Freepie is a member of the American Taliban?

  • freeinpa

    not being able to write English or do math makes me eligible to be a Dumo Congressman or Secretary of the treasury in this administration

  • juniusredivivus

    Why yes, Matt, I did wade through your rehearsal of talking-points. Not that you offered much in the way of facts, mind you. So many apocalyptic predictions, such an ignorance of basic realities. Still, let’s help you out:
    .
    1) Since you love money more than your fellow Americans, why don’t we recall just what a bad health-care system does to the economy? Lower productivity, more days lost to illness, more need for expensive treatments that could have been averted by preventive medicine. Equally, the cost of private health insurance is ridiculously high – and a good proportion goes into profits for health insurance providers. Do you really think this is an efficient way to spend money?
    .
    2) Since you worry about rationing, you would obviously be against a system which rationed health-care. Therefore, presumably, you oppose provision of health-care rationed by wealth? You do realize that we already have an extremely inefficient and sometimes fatal system of such rationing, provided by the private health insurance companies?
    .
    3) Sooner or later we are going to hear the same old shtick about how bureaucrats shouldn’t get between patients and doctors. Quite so. But of course, that’s exactly what happens now with health insurance bureaucrats from the private insurance companies.
    .
    4) You seem very confused about a lot of things. You inveigh against government intervention – and then demand that the government police the health insurers. You complain about wasted money – but you don’t want people to have a more efficient plan, in case private health insurance goes bankrupt. So you are in effect saying: I want free markets, but only when they are rigged to preserve inefficient private insurers. This is simply ridiculous.

  • freeinpa

    So you’re saying you would rather vote for Bin Laden than Obama?

    juniusredivivu
    Add Cliff to your list of those who can’t read. Nowhere does it say I would rather vote for Bin Laden. Cliff move your lips and read this: If libs tell the truth about their plans the would not get any votes (stop moving them now)

  • Cliff

    Do you mean Will Rogers?
    .
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Will_Rogers

  • juniusredivivus

    Freepie, you really should work on your English if you hope to immigrate to the USA and become a citizen.

  • Cliff

    “If libs tell the truth about their plans the would not get any votes stop moving them now”
    .
    Great, now all my coworkers are laughing at me.

  • freeinpa

    Another witty retort. Better go to sleep you must be exhausted by now.

  • juniusredivivus

    Thanks for the application, but the Bush Administration has left town. Maybe you should apply to Chairman Limbaugh?

  • freeinpa

    Cliff you are too modest. It’s not just your co-workers who laugh at you

  • freeinpa

    .
    juniusredivivu

    You should apply to Barnum & Bailey they are short one clown.

  • juniusredivivus

    Cliff, I think we now know how Freepie learned his talking-points. He just stares at Chairman Limbaugh and moves his lips along with the subtitles.That would explain the bizarre quality of his attempts to communicate in English. Poor lost soul, growing up in GOPISTAN INC. I can see why he hungers so desperately to become American.

  • juniusredivivus

    I am sure uclamatt would fit right in with you. Ask him. Two bobble-heads are better than one.

  • freeinpa

    .
    juniusredivivu

    you are too funny. You are qualified for the Obama administration. You would be right at home with the crowd that is turning this nation into a laughingstock

  • freeinpa

    Time to head out and drive my oversized SUV and do something that is more mentally challenging than matching wits with libs… like cleaning the return springs on my ball point pens

  • stewartiii

    Time’s Klein Complains of ‘Cruelty’ of ‘Scaring the Elderly to Score Political Points’
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2009/08/12/times-klein-complains-cruelty-scaring-elderly-score-political-points

  • erikofmke

    Overstated? Perhaps, but with potential to go down hill.

    WILL THE PLAN RATION MEDICAL CARE?
    This is what the bill says, pages 284-288, SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS:

    ‘(ii) EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN READMISSIONS.—For purposes of clause (i), with respect to a hospital, excess readmissions shall not include readmissions for an applicable condition for which there are fewer than a minimum number (as determined by the Secretary) of discharges for such applicable condition for the applicable period and such hospital.

    and, under “Definitions”:

    ‘‘(A) APPLICABLE CONDITION.—The term ‘applicable condition’ means, subject to subparagraph (B), a condition or procedure selected by the Secretary . . .

    and:

    ‘‘(E) READMISSION.—The term ‘readmission’ means, in the case of an individual who is discharged from an applicable hospital, the admission of the individual to the same or another applicable hospital within a time period specified by the Secretary from the date of such discharge.

    and:

    ‘‘(6) LIMITATIONS ON REVIEW.—There shall be no administrative or judicial review under section 1869, section 1878, or otherwise of— . . .

    ‘‘(C) the measures of readmissions . . .

    EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:
    1. This section amends the Social Security Act
    2. The government has the power to determine what constitutes an “applicable [medical] condition.”
    3. The government has the power to determine who is allowed readmission into a hospital.
    4. This determination will be made by statistics: when enough people have been discharged for the same condition, an individual may be readmitted.
    5. This is government rationing, pure, simple, and straight up.
    6. There can be no judicial review of decisions made here. The Secretary is above the courts.
    7. The plan also allows the government to prohibit hospitals from expanding without federal permission: page 317-318.

  • grollican

    Erik, you’ve managed to triumphantly illustrate how incredibly boring legislative prose is. Other than that, if you have a point, try making it in English, preferably accompanied by facts and logic.

  • erikofmke

    grollican,
    It’s in the Evaluation at the bottom. I’ll type slower for you

  • grollican

    Erik, the problem is that your evaluation is either trivial or irrational. You certainly haven’t proven anything, except that you urgently need to learn how to make an argument.

  • erikofmke

    Sorry, I’ve obviously stumbled across one of the great intellects of our time. However, as I opened with: it has the “POTENTIAL to go down hill,” I am merely pointing out areas that people may indeed be put through turmoil. Anytime you put government in a position to make decisions on your medical needs, you may be in trouble.

    You can now make light of this, as I know you will.

  • grollican

    Erik, I am sure you have the potential to go downhill as well. Shall we start discussing your imminent alcoholism? Your bankruptcy? Your sexual failure? Your inability to find employment? After all, all these things could happen, couldn’t they? Why don’t we assume that potential is the same as reality for you as well?
    .
    And your point about government is silly, Medicare works well for seniors, which is why even the whackjobs.. sorry, Republicans.. don’t dare abolish it. But you surely know that Medicare is government run. And yes, you can come out from under the bed now. I won’t mention the scary scary word government again, I promise. Instead, I’ll find you your teddy-bear and read you a bedtime story. You seem happier with fiction, on the whole.
    .
    Now, listen carefully:
    .
    Long, long ago, in a land named Alaska, there was a wicked governor named Palin, who was a shameless Socialist…

  • luckystar220

    I love the Daily Show~

  • http://linkthe.com/2009/08/12/times-klein-complains-of-cruelty-of-scaring-the-elderly-to-score-political-points/ Time’s Klein Complains of ‘Cruelty’ of ‘Scaring the Elderly to Score Political Points’ | linkthe.com

    [...] Dice Game from SpencersOnline.com. So huffed Time magazine’s Joe Klein, in an August 12 Swampland blog post seething at rumors of “death panels” being provided for in health care reform [...]

  • william500

    Michael Scherer’s excellent interview with Ezekiel Emanuel below should be required reading, and so should Ezra Klein’s interview on Monday with Senator Johnny Isakson, who has made end-of-life counseling a personal cause. It is difficult to bear the nihilist cynicism of mainstream Republicans like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh on this issue. The cruelty inherent in scaring the elderly to score political points is beyond reprehensible. I’ve had recent personal experience with this issue. In fact…This is an excellent article by Joe Klein and should be read to counter the GOP’s rabid hate rhetoric of governmental health care by calling the implementation of it the utility of “death squads” as ex Governor Palin accused the current President of the United States of in her critical and yet unfounded and unsubstantiated comments. She is a fear mongerer.

  • svalenti

    Years ago, my mom did the responsible thing. She reviewed an “Advanced Directive” document with me and outlined her wishes. Did she name me her health care proxy? No. Our discussion revealed that my mom wanted “everything done for her” in the event of a medical crisis or decline. As someone who had worked in health care for most of my career, I was surprised at her naivete – specifically, the hope that you can emerge from horrific conditions as intact and independent as you were before the event. I loved my mom and though surprised, I tried to reassure her that I would respect her wishes. “Nope”, she said, I’ll appoint your brother instead.

    It didn’t take long for a medical crisis to occur and for us to find out that she had never discussed her wishes with my brother. She was 71 years old. Her condition was truly horrific when we took her home from the rehabilitation center that failed to meet her most basic needs. She was in a comatose state due to painkillers to address what had been described as “exquisite” pain and bed sores had become her latest challenge. It appeared that with the help of community nurses our goal would be to make her comfortable until she passed away. Seemingly, there were no interventions that would restore her health. The nurses began to speak to us about hospice care and we listened.

    I’m a big supporter of hospice care and had high expectations as we jointly looked at care planning for my mom. It was during this process that her physicians identified one more intervention that they wanted to try. My mom and our family had had complete confidence in her specialist and based on our discussion about the advanced directives, I agreed with her physician’s plan. What I hadn’t been prepared for and why I’m writing today was the absolute lack of support from the hospice nurses (we hadn’t formally elected hospice at this point but their agency was providing daily nursing care). I’ll never forget their looks, their comments that verged on bullying. As someone who can’t stand conflict, it was hard to withstand their pressure. When they couldn’t change my mind, they appealed to other family members who were as anguished about Mom’s condition as I but who hadn’t seen the fierce determination of my mom when she’d contemplated the various scenarios outlined in the advanced directives.

    Unlike the hospice nurses, I knew her wishes. If there was an intervention that could restore her health, she would elect to go forward. By the way, the surgical procedure is a routine one, not especially costly and we did go forward – I signed for her because, as I said earlier, she was comatose. Though she wasn’t able to return to the part time job she loved and she never enjoyed the health she’d had prior to this crisis, she did live another two years and was grateful for my advocacy and that of her physicians.

    I continue to support hospice care and encourage every family to discuss advance directives and nominate a health care proxy. (These discussions are definitely challenging yet it would have been so much harder had my mom and I never had this discussion.) I’ll never forget laughing with her and trying to convince her that even though I didn’t feel the way she did about life extending interventions, she could rely on me to follow her wishes.

    I’ll never forget either the heavyhandedness of the hospice staff. Their clumsiness resulted in some (albeit blessedly short) family strain and a lingering concern about outsiders’ roles in end of life discussions. I question if legislators can write provisions in any law that quards against what I’ve outlined here.

  • http://botd.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/top-posts-1204/ Top Posts « WordPress.com

    [...] Death Panels Michael Scherer’s excellent interview with Ezekiel Emanuel below should be required reading, and so should Ezra [...] [...]

  • keninmo

    You should put Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Rahm the Enforcer, in correct context before you fawn all over him. His views are the same socialist redistribution of wealth as Obama, only now the government rations healthcare according to what is deemed “basic services” — this thought being fully formed by him as far back as 1996 under the “distributive justice for healthcare” rubric, which is just another version of Obama’s “redistributive change” lingo: (http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic_Republicanism_and_Deliberative_Democracy_Meet.pdf) “This civic republican or deliberative democratic conception of the good provides both procedural and substantive insights for developing a just allocation of health care resources. Procedurally, it suggests the need for public forums to deliberate about which health services should be considered basic and should be socially guaranteed. Substantively, it suggests services that promote the continuation of the polity-those that ensure healthy future genera- tions, ensure development of practical reasoning skills, and ensure full and active participation by citizens in public deliberations-are to be socially guaranteed as basic. Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example Is is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.” And, like most Obama “public forums”, it is an Obama-controlled admission only, like-minded sycophants only need apply. And they make decisions on what will and will not be provided as basic medical coverage. ‘Nuff said.

  • pcwalt

    I have been reading quite a bit from liberal bloggers for a few days now. I thought that it was supposed to be liberals and moderates who were ultimately good at communication, and that those “right-wing extremists” were those who failed at communication 101.

    I have not seen one piece or post which touches the central point of the conservative problem with government paying — directly or indirectly — for the medical care we will receive. The issue of “end-of-life” counseling is only indirectly related, by how it can be used to further the central fear.

    The central issue concerns who will get to make the final decision on what is a reasonable medical procedure for, say, an 80 year old woman who has broken her hip; or a 74 year old farmer whose knees are in bad shape; or a 64 year old who has had a major stroke and will require major medical attention to recover to an uncertain prognosis.

    I fully support “end-of-life” counseling by those who have no stake in the choices made, for those whose decisions are in the balance. But I think it is a rational thing to fear counseling by those who have an incentive to limit costs to “the system”.

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