Ted Kennedy’s Health Bill

There was more than little poignance in this statement that was just issued from Hyannis Port. It concerns something that happened minutes ago in the historic Caucus Room of the Russell Senate Office Building:

Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Chairman of the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee, today released the following statement regarding the Affordable Health Choices Act:

“This room is a special place. In this room, my two brothers declared their candidacy for the presidency. Today, the nation takes another major step toward reaching the goals to which they dedicated their careers, and for which they gave their lives. They strived, as I have tried to do, for a fairer and more just America – a nation where every American could share fully in the promise of quality health care.

As you vote today, know that I am with you in heart and mind and soul, and I wish very much that I could be with you in person.

I could not be prouder of our committee. We have done the hard work that the American people sent us here to do. We have considered hundreds of proposals. Where we have been able to reach principled compromise, we have done so. Where we have not been able to resolve our differences, we have treated those with whom we disagree with respect and patience. I thank all the members of our committee – Republicans, Democrats and Independents alike – for their dedication and devotion to the great cause of quality, affordable health care for all our people.

Extraordinary thanks go to Chris Dodd. No man has ever had a truer or more generous friend than he has been to me, and no cause has ever had a more able leader than he has been in the great effort to enact health reform.

It is a cause that knows no boundary of party, region, or philosophy. It is a cause that can and should unite us all as Americans. We know, however, that our work is not over – far from it. As we move from our committee room to the Senate floor, we must continue the search for solutions that unite us, so that the great promise of quality affordable health care for all can be fulfilled.

As I said, this room is a special place – and I believe our committee’s actions have added a glorious chapter to the honor roll of history that has been made here.

Americans are an extraordinary people. We have created a nation of liberty and justice. We have defeated forces of oppression, and we have spread prosperity and progress across the globe. When the American people are on the march, there is no barrier that can resist them, no obstacle that can block their path.

The American people are on the march once more, and they will not stop until quality, affordable health care is the birthright of every American. And we are with them every step of the way.”

On a party-line vote, Ted Kennedy’s committee gave him his health care reform bill, the first concrete step toward a goal for which Kennedy has fought for nearly four decades. As he noted, the measure stll has a long way to go before becoming a reality. Four other congressional committees must act, then it must go to the House and Senate floors, and then to what is likely to be a bitter struggle this fall in a conference committee. Its ultimate success is far from guaranteed. But this development–coupled with the unveiling of legislation yesterday by three House committees–means Kennedy’s dream of health coverage for every American is closer than it has ever been before.

That Kennedy, who is fighting brain cancer, should not be there for the vote is a sad thing, no matter what side of the debate you are on. And yet, it is in some ways a validation of what had looked like an incongruous choice when he made it all the way back in 1981. Kennedy was returning to the Senate a diminished figure after his failed quest to be President, and by seniority, he had an option at the dawn of the Reagan Revolution: He could become ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, or take the same post at the far less glamorous panel then known as the Labor and Public Welfare Committee. Kennedy picked Labor—a decision he would later call one of the most important of his career. “I felt that it was going to be in areas of human need for the average family that were going to be under greatest assault in the Reagan Administration,” he told the Boston Globe more than a decade later. “And unfortunately, it worked out that way.” This committee also gave him standing to work on health reform, hardly a front-burner issue back then, but one that he would continue to push forward bit by bit, whenever he saw an opening.

When the HELP Committee started “marking up” health legislation in Kennedy’s absence a few weeks back, the whole endeavor had fallen into disarray. It fell to Kennedy’s closest friend in the Senate–Chris Dodd–to pick up the pieces. “I got saddled with this responsibility, obviously at a late hour,” Dodd said wryly as the committee prepared to vote. Yet Dodd’s effort was extraordinary, and the bill that emerged is everything Ted would have wanted it to be. Which Republicans are arguing is not necessarily a good thing. “The HELP Committee bill is a complete failure that would make our health care system even sicker than it is today,” complained ranking Republican Mike Enzi.

As the process goes forward, the shape of the legislation is certain to change. For starters, it will have to be merged with a more conservative measure being worked on by the Senate Finance Committee. And there will be other compromises between now and the time the bill reaches–if it reaches–Barack Obama’s desk. But if this turns out to be the year in which health reform finally happens, it is fitting that Kennedy’s committee should be the one to put its stamp on it.

Related Topics: chris dodd, ted kennedy, Congress, Health Care
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  • 53_3

    This isn’t “health care reform”, this is a load of self-gratification on the part of congressweasels who are, on one hand, giving the extinct element unnecessary powers, and on the other, patting themselves on the back for getting it done.

    Two phrases come to mind, with all the connotations and contexts:

    “Good job, Brownie!”

    “Mission Accomplished.”

    These should be pasted on the door to that committee’s conference room as a reminder of the foibles of fooling oneself…

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    My God KT it’s one thing to report both sides, but could you be any more skeptical of the Democrats ability to produce a signature piece of legislation? Yes, you give a sympathetic pat on the back to Ted for forty years of service trying to get health care passed and you acknowledge that this is a first positive step in that direction, but you also used no less than eight qualifiers testifying to the unlikeliness of this actually happening compared to only three assertions that this thing is happening at all. Now I get that it’s not your job to be a cheerleader for any legislation, but shouldn’t journalistic equivalence require that you not play the role of chicken little either?

  • 53_3

    “But if this turns out to be the year in which health reform finally happens, it is fitting that Kennedy’s committee should be the one to put its stamp on it.”

    KT, you are tiptoeing quite close to that line between reporting and shilling. I know you’ve claimed you’re just reporting, but in this case, the aberrant concoction being sold as “health care reform” just, well, might not be what Ted Kennedy had in mind.

    “I thank all the members of our committee – Republicans, Democrats and Independents alike – for their dedication and devotion to the great cause of quality, affordable health care for all our people.”

    This particular bill does not come close to fulfilling that statement, and saying otherwise is patently false.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    Dee: I covered this effort in 1993 and 1994, and one thing it taught me is not to underestimate the degree of difficulty. This is not about journalistic convention; this is about the knowledge I have gained from having covered this subject for 16 years.

  • http://twitter.com/ktumulty Karen Tumulty

    Ted Kennedy seems to disagree with you on whether this fulfills his vision.

  • spob

    This post is a bit of a cheerlead.

  • 53_3

    Obviously his statement is in accordance with what you say, but that is politics, in my opinion.

    Politicians always tout their efforts, no news there.

    The bill, however, does not fulfill any of these things. I go by what the bill says, not what Ted Kennedy says.

  • deconstructiva

    Well, I like the story, thanks. Don’t hit me in the head with a salmon. That aside, I’m reading the Kennedy struggle / vision thingy – was that the main point here? – and skipping for now the “this bill is NOT an Instant Paragon” stuff. Did I misread this otherwise? I hope Sen. Kennedy shows up for the key votes – break filibuster and final vote – regardless of (or because of?) his health. If he must be carried in, go for it. The media drama alone would drive home his efforts and stick it to the Republicans.

  • deconstructiva

    spob, are you in agreement with your critics here?
    Really?

  • spob

    deconstructiva, I don’t understand the question.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Okay, I get what you’re saying KT and on any other legislation I would probably agree that past is generally prologue. However, you could at least acknowledge that while your institutional memory is driving much of your skepticism towards the unlikelihood of this legislation passing, you should also acknowledge that this is no longer 1993 and 1994, where we had a president elected with only 43% of the popular vote and a Congress where Republicans were just beginning to assert their power on the American body politic which peaked in 1994 with the Contract for America. In comparison, today we have an administration in place that avoided many of the traps of that era, an opposition that is no longer even a shadow of it former self, despite their ability to puff themselves up and inflate their appearance of power, and a coalition of business interests who recognize the negative consequences for their bottom line without the passage of health reform. Shouldn’t these changes in circumstances share equal footing as mitigating factors to historical precedent?

  • deconstructiva

    re: cheerleading, media
    subtopics: shilling, selling out, cashing in, media spin

    describing this story by KT as…
    are others in agreement with you here – others whom normally are in disagreement with you? just asking
    (whether story is / is not said topic is another index…)

  • spob

    I was just saying that KT’s obvious enthusiasm for health care reform comes through on this post. I get that some people think that Kennedy’s plight is poignant (personally, I don’t–I don’t have any sympathy for those who leave people to drown in a car and who don’t face any consequences for it), and I get that health care reform is historic, but KT’s support comes through loud and clear, and I was commenting on that.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Perhaps I’m the only one with this point of view, but the sympathetic view of Kennedy aside, it seems this post is more about how difficult it is going to be to pass health care reform, despite this announcement of a committee victory. Now you can agree or disagree on whether or not this bill contains everything we hoped to have in a health reform bill, and perhaps not being a single payer system is enough to render this bill a failure, but my concern and what I hope others will join me in railing against, is the media narrative that is taking place not only in Karen’s post, but is now filtering through the cable news shows that any kind of bill is unlikely, is dead on arrival and will be derailed by abortion etc. the attitude is one that somehow before the first vote has barely been cast that the Democrats don’t have enough votes to pass any kind of health reform bill, let alone one that all progressives will agree with. Now as a student of politics, the toughest battle to overcome is always one where you are trying to get the public to support something that they’ve been made to feel has already failed. Can’t we speak to the media driving this meme at the same time as demonstrate our concern for the content of the legislation?

  • 53_3

    I think the crux of my differences with KT’s views on this is that she is more willing to accept something less than effective health care reform.

    Even partial reform must make a material difference to fellow Americans, and the experiences with Medicare and health care providers’ right to refuse it leads me to the conclusions I have drawn.

  • deconstructiva

    spob, fair enough, I understand that point.
    I’ll take the hit for being contrarian, but I want KT’s enthusiasm given her family issues / coverage in her stories. Normally this is nobody’s biz but she since this issue directly affects her (and me in my own way but I digress), that would push her to cover HC (lack of) as best as possible, yes? Reporting truth here sucks right now. A dispassionate writer might just scan / parrot the numbers. But are those numbers real? What’s the hidden agenda?

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Aye, Art – I be just doin’ th’ same!

    Ye’re ri’ tho’ – fat lot o’ good it’ll do wi’ ‘er.

    YARR!

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    spob — when basic human compassion for the ill or dying becomes universally contingent upon the approval of their public behavior, God help conservatives facing any kind of physical adversities, because you people will clearly deserve the rest of humanity turning their backs.

  • 53_3

    As I pointed out to KT, the “victory” is purely a political ploy by the committee, faced with accepting a bill that is far less than adequate.

    Her last statement represents her opinion of the progress of the health care reform process, and, therefore, she is trying to sell it. I’m sure that her convictions about it are real, but she is trying, like others in the media, to drive the debate.

    The most effective way to approach this is through the circumventing of the drawbacks of the reconciliation clause is to increase taxes on the wealthy.

    That way, by definition, health care reform is on solid ground financially, cannot be picked apart by the opposition, which is not interested in bipartisanship anyway, and can be passed by a 51 vote majory, eliminating the need for blue dogs and GOPers.

    This is not to say that it must be a single payer system, or a complete elimination of the private market driven component. All it has to have is the workings that will fundamentally fulfill the statement I quoted above.

    And, there is no question that the current bill does none of those things!

  • deconstructiva

    Nice! I was typing a similar point but it was turning into word salad. Maybe they’ll learn what empathy means from Sotomayor.

  • 53_3

    spob:

    I might add that a number of your heroes have their own black marks. Quite a large number in fact.

    My guess is that your “compassion” is not driven by any actual conditions, but by political considerations only.

  • spob

    sorry, Dee, I don’t roll that way. Senator Kennedy, in my opinion, is a thoroughly loathesome human being. He left a woman to die; cheated at Harvard, and all this after being born into great privilege. I don’t feel sorry for him, and while I don’t wish brain cancer on anyone, I believe that Senator Kennedy will make the world a better place upon his exit.
    .
    And I don’t see how you have any business judging me. I have served my country; I have been gainfully employed since adulthood (and before); I pay taxes, and I can confidently say that I give more than I get back from society.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Th’ hidden ultimate agenda be th’ creation o’ a palatable-appearin’ sausage patty.

    Wi’ lots o’ empty filler parts an’ lite on th’ actual meat.

    Big enough t’ be coverin’ some entrenched, trough-fed congressional asses.

    Market an’ sold as progress fer th’ happy consumption o’ th’ easily-distracted an’ frighten-able citizenry, whilst pr’vidin’ lots o’ continuin’ pork fer corporate health.

    Now tha’ I be thinkin’ th’ agenda be no’ secret a’tall – an’ it be progressin’ nicely, if ye be o’ th’ corporate health industry interests – a nice wee bargain fer yer offerin’ o’ 30 silver pieces.

    Oops – me cynicism be showin’!

    YARR!!!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Spongy – go F yerself!

  • Ivy_B

    My goodness. I go away for six days and come back to a new Swamp! Many things fine about it, but while I couldn’t catch up with all the comments for every post, I did read the ones on Karen’s post about the new format. People keep mentioning numbers — once again, I don’t see numbers. Do they exist? It would be really great to be able to get to the last comment page without having to click through New posts to see only one new one. Happy to have paragraph breaks, though!

    Appreciate Karen’s keeping up with the health care issue. There are many steps in the process and at least we are watching much of the sausage being made and can contact our represenatives with more information.

  • 53_3

    It’s clear you do roll that way, spob, as you relentlessly ignore the shortfalls and deficiencies of your own peers.

    There’s always that saying:
    Let he who casts the first stone…

  • 53_3

    “I pay taxes, and I can confidently say that I give more than I get back from society.”

    A healty dose of skepticism on that one…

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Ivy –

    I’ve numbers wi’ firefox – th’ comments be numbered on th’ ri’ hand side.

    An’ I be also noticin’ tha’ since replies t’ other posters be no’ counted in th’ total, a’ times I be missin’ a bit o’ wha’ others (‘cept fer spongy – never read ‘im if I can be helpin’ it) be replyin if I just be scrollin’ down t’ th’ “next page” button.

    Still gettin’ used t’ it…

    arrgh.

  • deconstructiva

    Word!

    Too many sausage links in Congress, not enough meatballs, ahem.

    Whoever was the first insurance CEO to take his company public vs. mutual, well, I hope he’s stranded on a bare island with all of his stolen gold.

  • http://www.inworldstudios.com jayackroyd

    I do not understand all the negativity. This is a pretty damn good bill. And with OFA putting pressure on the insurance lobbyist’s gang of 12, it will become difficult to make it worse. The danger is in conference.

    I’d prefer that Reid just bring the House bill to the floor, and dare the Republicans to vote against it. doing so in a bloc would be the road to a 30 seat minority.

  • Ivy_B

    Article in HuffPo about the ad being run in support of Obama’s health plan.

    http://tinyurl.com/nuqepj

  • 53_3

    jayack:
    Is it a good bill because it’s paid for, or is it a good bill because it actually does something?

    The second part escapes me. The taxation of benefits is relentlessly stupid, and the burden on the poor imposed by penalties and premiums is compounded by the fact that they will likely be going to the same places they usually go to (trauma centers and community clinics) as medically indigents.

    To them, the same bang for a lot more bucks out of an already extremely limited budget!

  • deconstructiva

    …alas, today there are some social conservatives (not Christians) who would say, “I’m without sin” and start throwing fastballs. I had a former work colleague like that; he was fun to torment. Are there two types of people: those who throw rocks and those who get stoned?

  • Cliff

    Weird, that KT would be supportive of health care reform.

    Who do you think you are, KT, for wanting affordable, dependable quality health care for your loved ones?

  • spob

    Difference between being perfect, which no one is, and being heartless (as Kennedy was).
    .
    Aaaaaaah, the pirate wench continues her tired crusade. Get over it pirate wench. I’ve clowned you guys on repeated occasions (including the Sotomayor threads), and you’re upset. Don’t be so upset–I am just smarter than you are–I don’t get mad because I am not talented enough to play point guard for the NY Knicks–i adjust–you should too–we can’t all have IQs above room temperature. Your pirate talk is cute, and your colorful language is, well, colorful, but your reasoning skills pretty much amount to “wouldn’t it be nice if”. Well, yeah, it would be. It would also be nice if I didn’t have to have an alarm system in my house too.

  • spob

    Cliff, putting aside your rosy views of health care reform, she’s a journalist, and I was commenting on the lack of neutrality. Not judging it, mind you, just making a relevant comment. So your snark was misplaced.

  • deconstructiva

    …if only Frist had his way with the nuclear option “back then.” He never thought the Senate would change hands? HC would be sooooo much easier to pass without kissing up to “Mutual of Omaha” Nelson, etc.

  • icmountainpeaks

    A good start on paying for optional health care would be to put a 3 to 5% sales tax on all imported retail goods encourage buy America. This would be a good boost to Buy America, with cars it would help those companies left in here. Those like myself who would benefit the most for this would also be paying a big potion of the taxes, because we shop at big box stores who mainly sale imported goods. A 3 to 5% sales tax on retail imported goods including cars. Won’t break the bank of the poor. It will also lesson the wedge between those who are making bank and those who are working for them making nothing.

  • spob

    “A good start on paying for optional health care would be to put a 3 to 5% sales tax on all imported retail goods encourage buy America.”
    .
    Yeah, if you wanna start a trade war.

  • Ffred

    Just let the “invisible hand of the free market” fix everything! See this week’s “This Modern World”:

    http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2009/07/14/tomo/index.html

  • deconstructiva

    This message brought to you by Walmart[tm].
    just kidding… I like national sales tax ideas if they’re scaled upwards for big-ticket items, less for paper towels and more for Ferraris. A serious question though is what about “foreign” items made here – like some Hondas / Toyotas?

  • shepherdwong

    Karen, I think your pessimism is well earned and well placed. We’ll have to see what comes out of committee.

    Any comment on John McCain’s big lie today about there being no provision to reduce cost in the bill? (Not holding my breath).

  • shepherdwong

    “And I don’t see how you have any business judging me. I have served my country; I have been gainfully employed since adulthood (and before); I pay taxes, and I can confidently say that I give more than I get back from society.”

    Senator Kennedy could say exactly the same thing only, in case, he’s also not a crazy, miserable racist. Also.

  • yutsano

    I find it astounding that anyone is bothering to look to the Senate for leadership on health care or any issue, honestly. They are simply 100 feudal lords with their own fiefdoms protecting their monied interests and their political backsides until the next election when they can ignore their constituents for six years. Leadership in this is going to come from the House, and if you read the House version of the bill it’s better by half than this piece of gristle they’re trying to sell as sausage.

  • sue_n

    I have just emailed my Congress critters to inform them that I had to cancel a doctor’s appointment for my daughter because we can’t afford it. And we have insurance.

    Unfortunately, my critters are Kay Bailey Hutchison, Big John Cornyn, and Rep. Louie Gohmert (truly a nasty piece of work), so, you know, I’m basically spitting into the wind here …

  • spob

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/14/AR2009071403075.html
    .
    WaPo editorial board.
    .
    Shepherd, I see you want some. The bottom line, twit, is that Kennedy left a woman to die without lifting so much as a finger to save her. He paid little for this. I’d say that I can judge him, and I do. Quite simply, the world will be a better place the instant he passes from it.

  • pafro

    Tom Coburn, the Senator who suggested to John Ensign that he should talk his mommy and daddy into bribing his mistress, offered an amendment requiring Senators to get on the public option, because it would prove some point or another.
    -
    Kennedy and Chris Dodd took creepy Coburn’s challenge and voted with all the Republicans to pass the amendment. Hilarious.

  • yutsano

    Then get off your tail and investigate the case and bring up charges. Otherwise you’re just flapping your gums and trying to bring down 40 years of public service because he’s just an evil librul.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I’m not judging you spob, I’m judging your statements, And if I were to follow your standards, the same standards that you are applying to Ted Kennedy, then none of the things you offer up as testament to your good qualities. In fact, according to your standards I would be right to ignore every good thing you have ever done i your life because of the few egregious things I’ve seen you write on this blog that call into question your capacity for human kindness, respect for those of different cultures, and supply evidence of your racism on a regular basis. The problem with your kind of conservatism and the reason that thee is always so much glee for the Democratic side when your kind fall of your perch, is that you want to set the standards and then never have it applied to you when appropriate.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    jayack –

    Me negativity be wi’ th’ chances o’ makin’ it out o’ conference fer a vote wi’ any semblance o’ a real public option.

    An’ I be secondin’ those wonderin’ ’bout whether it be a good bill ’cause o’ spendin’, or ’cause it be pr’vidin’ better health care access – I be not sure th’ latter be achieved wi’ th’ bill we be seein’ so far.

    Arrgh!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    An’ it’d be fair easy t’ bring a till t’ th’ floor employin’ Sanders option o’ all 60 (includin’ th’ risk-averse scaredy-pants) votin’ against filibuster, wi’ just a bare majority (those possessin’ actual testicles) votin’ t’ pass th’ bill.

    I be b’lievin’ it be goin’ t’ be more an’ more important t’ separate th’ two (votin fer cloture/votin fer th’ bill itself) t’ be gettin’ any chance fer real reform t’ even get t’ th’ floor.

  • shepherdwong

    “Shepherd, I see you want some. The bottom line, twit, is that Kennedy left a woman to die without lifting so much as a finger to save her.”

    Don’t flatter yourself. You don’t know a damned thing about anything and you’re so addled you actually believe you do. Go back to arguing with yourself where you stand a chance of making some sense to someone.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    That’s absolutely brilliant — the entire health care fight was about allowing Americans to get health care as good as the average member of Congress, now congress will get health care as good as the average American.

  • yutsano

    I see Dee joins me in saying that that is teh awesome. But haven’t we been saying that the best way to get a good plan through the Senate is to make them get the exact same health plan as us?

    Oh and Coburn knows Senators can all just go to Bethesda for health care, right?

  • spob

    yutsano apparently never has heard of Chappaquiddick . . . .
    .
    whatever, shepherd, I have quite clearly shown that I know a lot about a lot of things. You just don’t like my politics, which is fine, but you shouldn’t pretend it’s anything but that.
    .
    OT, but my oh my how well your SCOTUS nominee is doing. She can barely handle answering a question about SCOTUS term limits; she uses a ton of malapropisms and she doesn’t get modern fundamental rights jurisprudence. You guys should have picked Kagan.

  • yutsano

    I can even spell Kopechne’s last name correctly Spob, care to try again? Seriously dude, just because I wasn’t born yet doesn’t mean I don’t know what happened in the past. And I’ll even concede that he may have gotten away with something. If you’re really that incensed, though, why don’t you re-open the investigation (you do know there’s no statute of limitations on murder right?) and prove your case in a court of law? I mean, you’d be the darling of the Right if you could take down a Kennedy!

  • gysgt213

    This is off the current topic and those hearings are pretty boring. But I think some of you will find this interesting.

    Glenn Greenwald took Chuck Todd to task in his column today for appearing on Mornin Joe and conducting himself like a spokesman for the Obama administration re: Investigating what went on at the CIA during the Bush Admin.

    Todd was pretty much pushing very hard the idea that the Obama administration should not investigate the crimes committed during the Bush administration. By now everyone knows the standard reasons that are trotted out by reporters to disuade on the investigation of a previous administration issue.

    To make a long story short. Todd emailed Glenn said that he read Glenn’s column and wished that Glenn had contacted him first. Glenn said there really was no reason to because his (Todd) words spoke for themselves. But Glenn asked Todd if he would do a podcast to discuss and to Todd’s credit he agreed and it should be on line this afternoon.

    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/?source=rss

  • spob

    yutsano, your post implied ignorance, since the stuff about what Kennedy did is not seriously questioned. He left her. That was immoral; you know it; I know it. His actions that night were reprehensible. I think him scum.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    but my oh my how well your SCOTUS nominee is doing.

    Hmmm….
    the next associate justice of the Supreme Court or a frequently rude and ugly commenter on a blog named after a cartoon character.

    Guess who’s opinion I would trust first.

  • yutsano

    Considering if I ever were in serious legal trouble, if I could afford him, and if he’d agree to do it, I’d hire Greenwald as my legal advocate in a heartbeat. I hope Todd knows what he’s getting into. I wonder if Greenwald avoids the Sunday shows to prevent them from gaining any legitimacy.

    Oh and I’ll take boring hearings Gunny. Means that only Spob and the far right can clutch pearls over every perceived slight but she will sail through the confirmation process,

  • yutsano

    Immoral? Seriously? You’re taking the moral righteousness angle? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I should listen to myself when I decide to stop taking someone seriously. Do NOT go there Spob, you’re gonna make a big fool of yourself if you do.

  • Cliff

    No, I’m totally agreeing with you.
    Just because Tumulty has a brother who is slowly dying due to lack of coverage is no reason for her to abandon neutrality to point out imaginary flaws in our perfect healthcare system.

    I mean, you can maintain perfect objectivity when discussing threats to your family. I’ve seen it!

  • Cliff

    Actually I think spob used to be named sobrien, a rightwing commentor who showed up shortly before the election.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    So spob what you are saying is that since Kennedy, in your opinion only, chose to save himself from drowning rather than save the life of another passenger he should have never been allowed to return to polite society.

    Because clearly you could not be saying that since alcohol may have been a factor in the accident he got away with murder could you? Because if my memory serves me correctly, both Bush’s, and that would be George Jr and Laura, who I believe actually killed someone while driving, have been suspected of getting a pass on alcohol related events. Not too mention that this happened during an era where our perceptions of alcohol induced acts weren’t looked down on with the same intensity that we do now. This is pre-MADD folks so forgive me if I don’t have the same sense of outrage.

    But that’s not your issue is it spob? You just don’t think liberal Americans are real Americans and anyone who isn’t a real American doesn’t deserve to breath American air — does that about sum up your real philosophy?

  • Art Pepper

    As long as meaningful health reform won’t pass, I’m glad we’re debating the moral character of Ted Kennedy. Stick it to the man!

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    Spongy –

    Ye seem t’ be havin’ a bit o’ trouble decidin’ which o’ yer two a$$holes t’ go F yerself in – I be recommendin’ ye be usin’ ‘em both – t’ be fair an’ balanced, don’t ye be knowin’!

    YARR!

  • spob

    PD, whether or not she is going to be the next Associate Justice of the Supreme Court really isn’t all that relevant to her performance. Obama could have nominated Richard Paez, and he would probably have squeaked by. Knowledgeable libs are disappointed with her performance and privately whine that Kagan wasn’t the nominee.
    .
    Dee, my issue is not that Kennedy, an expert swimmer, did not even try to rescue her. He didn’t even try to get help. Didn’t report the accident until the next day etc. etc.
    .
    Laura did kill someone. An accident. She didn’t leave the scene . . . . did she? Kennedy didn’t even try to get help.
    .
    Dee, you clown yourself trying to defend Kennedy’s behavior.

  • spob

    PW, once again, your charming self reappears here. I’ll repeat myself. Don’t take it so hard. I am just smarter than you are. Deal with it.

  • spob
  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I don’t have the need to defend anyone about anything spob. I just have the good sense to know that I don’t have all the facts and neither do you. Moreover assuming that you do and making judgments based on the fragments of gossip at your disposal makes you a jack azz. And lastly, and most completely, believing that the worth of any one’s entire life should 1) be judged by you and 2) be based on one moment in time, is for fools and hippocrates.

  • shepherdwong

    “…I have quite clearly shown that I know a lot about a lot of things.”

    Yes, you have. The trouble is most of it is complete crap. That’s the whole point. When you believe in pure lunacy and then contend you’re just being smarter than the lucid people around you, it turns you from being merely a pathetic character to an embarrassing and annoying one as well.

  • juniusredivivus

    Pirate Wench, I see you’ve panicked spob into self-soiling, as usual. Amusing as it is to see the vermin howling, just ignore the loser. He comes here to troll, not to make a contribution to the debate.

  • spob

    Sorry Dee, Kennedy’s acts that night in Chappaquiddick are indefensible. You know it; I know it.

  • shepherdwong

    “I wonder if Greenwald avoids the Sunday shows to prevent them from gaining any legitimacy.”

    I can pretty much guarantee that Greenwald has never received an invitation to any of the Sunday gabfests. He’s a liberal and they have no use for those.

  • spob

    sw, take a peek at the Sotomayor threads–your side got clowned.
    .
    junius, funny how the “troll” rating changes depending on the politics of the troller. Rants about the meanie GOP are not “trollish”, but comments about Kennedy are. Guess what, the post said the moment was poignant. I have a different point of view. I don’t wish brain cancer on anyone, but like I said, the world will be a better place as soon as Kennedy exits it. That may seem harsh, but that’s how I roll. I’d feel the same way if Kennedy were a Republican.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    junius –

    Tha’ be why I almost never be attemptin’ th’ impossible task o’ engagin’ ‘im on anythin’ o’ substance. I were givin’ up bangin’ me ‘ead ag’inst walls long ago, fer th’ most part.

    It do be fun t’ poke a’ ‘im whenever I be seein’ ‘is syphilitic spongyness appearin’ in a thread, tho’ – I can be countin’ on gettin’ out some o’ me unrelated frustration whene’er I be seein’ ‘is scummy moniker on me screen! Expletives be ri’ cathartic, me hearty!

    So much so, tha’ I were tryin’ b’fore t’ encourage th’ rest o’ th’ crew t’ be wishin’ ‘im a hearty “go F yerself!” an lettin’ it be goin’ a’ tha’, bu’ it be lookin’ li’ th’ happy chore be all me own!

    YARR!

  • yutsano

    Oh yeah…forgot that little detail.

  • deconstructiva

    spob, do you feel the same way about Laura Bush as you do about Kennedy?

    (not poking you with a stick, just wondering / looking for consistency since both drove into fatal car accidents?)

  • juniusredivivus

    It’s easy to deal with spob. Just ignore him. He’ll howl a few insults, use the clown claim a few times, and secretly long for a response. Don’t give him the pleasure. Everyone here knows that spob is a moral cretin, without character or principles. Ignore him and reflect that in so doing you are enraging him more than any other response can possibly achieve. Cut off his oxygen, and he’ll quit. And even if he does keep soiling himself, if you don’t bother reading his posts, it doesn’t matter, because he is having zero impact. Spob is like syphilis -if you just say no, you won’t be infected.

  • spob

    deconstructiva, Laura Bush didn’t leave the scene without knowing whether the victim could be saved. Kennedy did. Everyone makes mistakes in driving. Not everyone drives off a road, into a pond, gets out, and then leaves another accident victim by herself without trying to get any help whatsoever.
    .
    The problem is not the accident (unless Kennedy was drunk, which he probably was), but his utter inhumanity in leaving that poor woman in the car. (There is some evidence that she suffocated, not drowned, by the way.)

  • yutsano

    Yes let’s get back to screaming at (and about) our overlords in the Senate over this sausagefest of a bill. I keep hoping that Pelosi throws a hissy fit in reconciliation and insists on all the positive changes from the House piece of sausage.

  • juniusredivivus

    See guys, you aren’t asking the obvious question: what is the relevance of a driving accident to the healthcare issue. The answer is: none whatsoever, so why waste time discussing it?

    Now. back to the real world: is the bill what it should be? Well, as I see it, it isn’t perfect, and it probably won’t benefit from the TLC of such experts as John McCain and James Ignoranthoper, but it might just be the foundation stone for future efforts. I’d take some progress, however imperfect, over principled failure. And if Mike Enzi dislikes is, there must be something worth having there.

  • spob

    Junius, the problem is that I am such a guilty pleasure.
    .
    I post substantive things, and will engage cordially, if I am engaged that way. I respond in kind when I am insulted. My substantive comments add to the debate. And ignoring them gives the impression that they cannot be dealt with. Nyah, nyah, nuh, nyah, nyah, I can’t hear you isn’t debate–it’s an attempt to silence. I suspect most people understand that. And that’s why I won’t be ignored.

  • spob

    “Well, as I see it, it isn’t perfect, and it probably won’t benefit from the TLC of such experts as John McCain and James Ignoranthoper, but it might just be the foundation stone for future efforts. I’d take some progress, however imperfect, over principled failure. And if Mike Enzi dislikes is, there must be something worth having there.”
    .
    A trollish comment–ad hominem, no effort to deal with the issues.

  • yutsano

    I’d rather the Dems just go all out and push through a semi-decent reform that works rather than spend all their time appeasing the minority party like they are. Frack congeniality, the Reps have shown zero interest in cooperation or bipartisanship. Let them throw fits on the Senate floor for all I care, just get SOMETHING in place.

  • apollyon07

    Ohhh, have we not learned this lesson already from the Great Depression?

  • apollyon07

    What do you think the point of McCain-Feingold was? “To get the influence of big money out”? HA!

  • ohiolib

    In all fairness, Dee, I’m pretty skeptical of the dem’s ability to pass a decent bill too. My guess is that they’ll sit there like bumps while the Rs rant about socialism and big government, and we’ll end up with an expensive but fairly useless bill that the Rs wil then blame on the dems

  • 53_3

    sponge bob must have a forked Dick…

  • bobcn1

    The troll is adding nothing to the discussion of the health care bill so please don’t engage him.

  • 53_3

    I think spob is high on something. It’s got to be some kind of stimulant.

    He’s not too many steps from megalomania…

  • spob

    Megalomania? From posting on a blog? Surely you jest.
    .
    I think Kennedy relevant, but it’s fine that you guys don’t. WaPo came out with a pretty tough editorial today on the surtax. I linked it earlier. That’s certainly germane to the debate.

  • CP in FL

    spob – I heard if you drink drain cleaner, it will make you feel great. You should try it. What Ted Kennedy did decades ago has nothing to do with the health care debate. You sir are a TROLL.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    The only thing I know for sure is that your kind of thinking sends innocent people to jail and guarantees that in this country stupidity will remain a major source of brain activity.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    From the same source as Obama’s secret birth certificate no doubt?

  • spob

    CP in FL, sorry, NaOH isn’t that healthy. The post was more than about the health care debate–it was about the poignancy of a man addled with brain cancer. I felt that opened the door to Chappaquiddick. After all, sympathy for Kennedy should be tempered with his utter lack of sympathy for a fellow human being. You don’t agree. Fine.
    .
    OT, this is an interesting thing on Sotomayor:
    .
    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-evasions-and-misstatements-of-sonia-sotomayor/

  • shepherdwong

    “He’s not too many steps from megalomania…”

    Just serious delusional thinking and more than a touch of narcissism, if you ask me. So what are the mental health care provisions in the proposed legislation (there, fixed)?

  • gpanfile

    Prediction: something will pass this year, because this is what Obama wants to be the core of his legacy. The political capital he is not spending on DADT or torture, to the consternation of some, will go here, as part of what I see as a double Roosevelt philosophy: first term, health care and gradually get out of the Bush ditch. Look for him to go strong and directly to the public by TV and Internet when push comes to shove on this one. Second term, especially if there is not major economic improvement, go trustbuster, run against big corporations and big business, while remaining relatively conservative in action on foreign policy while being as conciliatory and openminded as possible diplomatically. FDR, then Teddy. Think about it. It works. He is a basketballer, knows how to pace himself, work the clock and the referees.

  • spob

    “He is a basketballer, knows how to pace himself, work the clock and the referees.”
    .
    Good thing he’s a cager–because he throws a baseball like a girl.

  • ohiolib

    Ok, I can’t ignore that. For someone who claims to add to discussions and post relevant remarks, this is about as far from relevant as possible. Or is everything relevant as long as fuhrer Limbaugh signs off on it first?

  • spob

    come on ohiolib, lighten up. I guess you’re still sore because I clowned you on a Sotomayor thread. (Too easy, by the way, I mean really, is there any defense to her rambling, botched answer to Kohl’s batting practice pitch?) The previous post mentioned Obama’s being a hoopster–I referenced his girl-like pitch at the All-Star Game. Lighten up, Francis.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    spob again responds to voices in his head who assure him that he really is smart and not an a$$hole and the people who disagree with him are just jealous of his brilliance.

    Textbook delusion.

  • spob

    PD, gimme a break–you call me names, I respond, and I am the jerk. Whatever, SFB. Go back and read the comments. Lib tried to defend Sotomayor’s response on term limits, and I nailed him.
    .
    And Obama throws like a girl.

  • themaverickformerlyknownasbasilbrush

    We don’t yet know what this bill will look like at the final stages, so we might hold off on the cries of betrayal for a little bit longer. If you do want to make a difference, organize groups, pressure your Congress critter or Senator, make yourselves heard. Weeping and wailing here doesn’t do a thing. Nor does wasting time on the trolls. What they want is to soak up your energy and your belief, to the point where you don’t do what matters – pushing your politicians and keeping them honest. Ask yourselves whether you would rather post something here, or email the relevant politician and demand real healthcare reform. Make it clear that if they sell out on this, there will be consequences. If the GOP imbeciles can hold Tea Parties for racists and f*ckheads, surely we can do more than that for healthcare. Accountabilty doesn’t have to be a dream, if people are willing to organize and fight and punish politicians who betray them.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    Obama throws like a girl.
    I am the jerk.
    QED

  • spob

    “If the GOP imbeciles can hold Tea Parties for racists and f*ckheads, surely we can do more than that for healthcare.”
    .
    I assume that all you people so intent on silencing me for being a troll will come down hard on this.

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I be able t’ be coverin’ both decks, tmfkbb…spongy be such an easy shot t’ take – proverbial rottin’ fish in a barrel, an’ me Congresspeople be ri’ sick o’ hearin’ fr’m me!

    Arrgh!

  • Cliff

    Tea Parties are full of racists and f*ckheads, and all evidence points to a good portion of elected GOP officials being imbeciles, so we can’t really ding basilbrush for inaccuracy.

  • deconstructiva

    textee mentioned “throws like a girl” at Michael’s (more relevant) baseball post earlier. I asked which girl? Monica Abbott? Cat Osterman? Jennie Finch? But how to make this relate to Ted Kennedy, hmm, this is tough….

  • yutsano

    PW is blasting the cannons and sounding off to our Congresscritters (seems Patty is on deck but Maria needs to start shaping up) and I’m piping in here as well. If we can get them to realize we’re talking about peoples’ lives here, maybe that will help.

  • rose83

    Imagine my excitement when I saw 111 comments on a health care thread. I remembered all those great discussions we’ve had in the past, and even regretted that I had been too busy yesterday join in.

    But no, this was not a health care discussion. This was spob derailing a health care discussion with an absurdly myopic and tasteless debate about the character of a dying man.

  • http://travelpanther.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/obama-applauds-health-milestone/ Obama applauds health ‘milestone’ « LAKDULA NEWS PAGE

    [...] Time magazine’s Karen Tumulty takes a look at a Democratic veteran’s role in delivering healthcare reform. [...]

  • sandie7

    TO TED KENNEDY AND ALL THE OTHER PROPONENTS OF THE HEALTH REFORM BILL. WHEN YOU USE THE SAME HEALTH CARE INSURANCE THE REST OF USE THEN I MIGHT THINK OF SUPPORTING THIS NEW BILL. ALL YOU WANT IS MORE CONTROL OVER OUR LIVES.

  • dmac8889

    I think naming the Congressional Health Care Bill after Ted Kennedy is a great idea, However I would like to see a bill named for Sarah Palin for defeating the bill called the “HELL NO!” Bill. After all her bill stands a much better chance of PASSING than Ted’s bill of “CROSSING THAT BRIDGE.”

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