Sotomayor’s Aristotle

Most lawyers (and any one who’s seen Legally Blonde) know well Aristotle’s famous phrase: The law is reason free from passion.

Thus far Sonia Sotomayor’s confirmation hearings have been reasonably free of passion. There have been no silver bullets, no arguments, no gaffes, no slip ups and given her metered, dulcet tones the words hot blooded Latina do not come to mind. “I must say that, if there’s a test for judicial temperament, you pass it with an A-plus-plus,” Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat remarks to laughs. “I want you to know that, because I wanted to respond, and my adrenaline was moving along. And you have just sat there, very quietly, and responded to questions that, in their very nature, are quite provocative. So I want to congratulate you about that.”

The crux of the debate remains Aristotle’s premise: that judges should rule not from passion but with reason and precedent. To that end Jeff Sessions, the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, grilled Sotomayor on her now-infamous “wise-Latina” comments. Sotomayor responded that she was trying to make a play on former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor’s famous statement that a wise man and a wise woman would inevitably come to the same conclusion. “So I was trying to play on her words. My play was — fell flat,” Sotomayor said. “It was bad, because it left an impression that I believed that life experiences commanded a result in a case, but that’s clearly not what I do as a judge. It’s clearly not what I intended in the context of my broader speech, which was attempting to inspire young Hispanic, Latino students and lawyers to believe that their life experiences added value to the process.”

Democrats have gone on the offensive today, actively criticizing the conservative nature of the Roberts court and its recent decisions. Feinstein, for example, spent much of her 30 minute Q&A with Sotomayor mulling over the court’s recent upholding of a ban on partial birth abortion – in her view bypassing the Roe v. Wade precedent. “I’d also like to ask you your thoughts on how a precedent should be overruled,” Feinstein said. “In a rare rebuke of his colleagues, Justice Scalia has sharply criticized Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito for effectively overruling the court’s precedents without acknowledging that they were doing so.” Sotomayor responded that, while there are times when precedent should be reexamined, those should be done “very, very cautiously.”

Republicans have focused their fire on a handful of Sotomayor’s comments and cases, including the Ricci v. Destefano case, Maloney v. Cuomo and her comments about foreign law. Members from both sides bought up controversial cases, including Roe v. Wade, Kelo v. New London and Heller v. District of Columbia, looking for clues at how she would vote on similar issues. In every case she simply cited precedent law and would not speculate on how she’d rule in the future. “Few judges could claim they love baseball more than I do,” Sotomayor, an avid Yankees fan who famously ended the 1995 baseball strike, said to laughter. “But analogies are always imperfect. And I prefer to describe what judges do, like umpires, is to be impartial and bring an open mind to every case before them. And by an open mind, I mean a judge who looks at the facts of each case, listens and understands the arguments of the parties, and applies the law as the law commands. It’s a refrain I keep repeating because that is my philosophy of judging — applying the law to the facts at hand. And that’s my description of judging.”

Her answers to the hot button questions have had the well-worn texture of practice. But it has been her answers to Democratic probes intended to illuminate other corners of her resume that have provided tiny glimpses of her passions. We now know one of her godchildren is a member of the National Rifle Association and that she prefers to stay with friends when traveling instead of in hotels. One of her first responses concerned the Tarzan murder case she prosecuted while working under Robert Morgenthau in the New York District Attorney’s office. She described movingly the impact of the case on one family that lost a child at the hands of a burglar. “That family was destroyed. They scattered to the four winds, and only one brother remained in New York who could testify,” she said. “That case taught me that prosecutors, as all participants in the justice system, must be sensitive to the price that crime imposes on our entire society.” But these moments have been rare. The bulk of the hearings have been, if not full of reason, lacking any passion.

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Related Topics: confirmation, hearings, sotomayor, Supreme Court, Congress, Democratic Party, Senate, Supreme Court
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  • spob

    No gaffes? I’d say this one is:

    KOHL: All right. Judge, all of us in public office, other than federal judges, have specific fixed terms. And we must periodically run for reelection if you want to remain in office. Even most state court judges have fixed terms of office.

    The federal judiciary, as you know, is very different. You have no term of office. Instead you serve for life. So I’d like to ask you — would you support term limits for Supreme Court justices, for example, 15, 20 or 25 years? Would this help ensure that justices do not become victims of a cloistered, ivory tower existence and that you will be able to stay in touch with the problems of ordinary Americans — term limits for Supreme Court justices?

    SOTOMAYOR: All questions of policy are within the providence of Congress first. And so, that particular question would have to be considered by Congress first. But it’d have to consider it in light of the Constitution and then of statutes that govern these issues. And so, that first step and decision would be Congress’.

    I can only know that there was a purpose to the structure of our Constitution. And it was a view by the — by the founding fathers that they wanted justices who would not be subject to political whim or to the emotions of a moment. And they felt that by giving them certain protections that that would ensure that — their objectivity and their impartiality over time.
    .
    Sotomayor’s answer was ill-informed and amateurish.

  • rustyreturns

    Very nice post Jay, I believe you have simply put it plainly that Sotomayor is “well rehearsed” in her responses. You state “Her answers to the hot button questions have had the well-worn texture of practice.”
    .
    Practiced answers unfortunately do not give us a clear picture of this woman about to become a Supreme Court Associate Justice. Also unfortunate, is that her entire judicial record has been white-washed like a beach-side home in Puerto Rico.
    .
    Hopefully her earlier opinions as a “wise Latina” do become part of the white-washing and do not become part of her future as a true blue Democrat “policy-making” Judge. I somehow doubt that she will be able to refrain from her past boastful judgements, once she becomes a Justice.
    .
    Maybe people in future voting booths will remember when the Democrats had control of both the Presidency, House and Senate, and never again allow this un-balanced political state of affairs we currently see ever occur again.

  • Art Pepper

    no gaffes

    Sessions’ comment about Judge Cedarbaum was quite the gaffe.

  • deconstructiva

    Jay, lovely post, thanks. Really. But maybe Plato would be as relevant as Aristotle. Besides, those two LOVED to spar, ahem, debate way back then. Natch, I’m speaking of Plato’s deconstruction of Socrates’ dialogue with Phaedrus, especially the Famous Chariot Analogy: we are riding towards Truth while being pulled by two horses: white horse of reason vs. black horse of passion. Of course, the two horses are at odds during the journey. Maybe Sotomayor / other current Justices/ their backgrounds, empathy, decision making coin flips, etc. are closer to Plato than Aristotle. If nothing else, P vs. A. debate would throw the right wing talking points off-balance. What are your thoughts, Jay? Thx.

  • deconstructiva

    And Jay, are you winning the in-chambers drinking game vs. your rival colleagues? I hope so.

  • spob

    Can anyone defend Sotomayor’s answer to Kohl. It’s absolutely amateurish.

  • trifecta55

    I wish Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III would ask all the Republican questions.

    That is a good thing (for democrats).

  • FlownOver

    That’s “Morgenthau,” not “Morganthal.”

  • deconstructiva

    If the law is reason free from passion, then the Terri Schiavo law would not have been passed. But I digress….

  • http://www.twitter.com/jnsmall Jay Newton-Small

    FlownOver — I fixed it. JNS

  • spob

    unless, of course, deconstructiva, you think that someone who is married to someone in name only and who has “moved on” should get to be the arbiter of when treatment is withdrawn. That, aside from the Schiavo case, is really a problem.

  • spob

    JNS, what’s your view of Sotomayor’s answer to Kohl. It looks pretty amateurish to me.

  • trifecta55

    Excellent spob. I am sure you feel the same way about a gay child who is disowned by his parents whose lover of 25 years has no say under the law, but the parents do.

    Probably not.

  • fhmadvocat

    spob,

    Clearly your eyes have been covered by the judgment you have already passed on Sotomayor. I saw you make reference to the Article III of the Constitution in a previous post. Didn’t Sotomayor mention the Constitution, but you are so filled with bias against her, you did not see that. Second, while a constitutional amendment is required, all amendments to the Constitution come out of Congress. It is clear, while she is seeking to answer the question directly (for obvious reasons) she knows what she is talking about. You get fixated on the word “statutes” as if statutes have nothing to do with the governance of federal judges. Well, you are wrong and Judge Sotomayor knows much more about the subject than you.

  • deconstructiva

    Well, spob, fair points, but marriage does involve power of attorney, property rights, and other legal stuff. That’s a big reason why states get involved in marriage. And no, please don’t extend this argument into whether gays, martians, etc. should have these same granted rights, however seductive that might be to debate here. Just heading that off at the pass. I simply asked lovely Jay for her thoughts on Plato’s relevence to the players in this SCOTUS drama. Peace.

  • FlownOver

    Thank you.

  • ogliberal

    The Constitution would have to be amended in order to change the term limits – or lack of – for Supreme Court Justices – Check

    Congress must propose amendments to change the Constitution – Check

    Congress must give serious considerations to the original intent of the Constitution before proposing an amendment – Check

    The founders intended for justices to serve, essentially, for life to insulate them from “political whims” – ie, the desires and ideologies of those responsible for putting them in their position – Check

    I fail to see the problem with her response. Did you expect a 30-page treatise on the judicial branch of our government?

  • FlownOver

    Actually, J N-S, I’m afraid you didn’t quite. It’s Morgenthau. Third time’s a charm, though, I’m sure.

  • Cliff

    Oh good, looks like this is going to be just like the last thread.

  • shepherdwong

    Democrats have gone of on the offensive today…

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    mmmmmmph……mmmmmmph…..

  • shepherdwong

    From right after the “wise Latina” comment so beloved by wise-@ss white guys:

    I am reminded each day that I render decisions that affect people concretely and that I owe them constant and complete vigilance in checking my assumptions, presumptions and perspectives and ensuring that to the extent that my limited abilities and capabilities permit me, that I reevaluate them and change as circumstances and cases before me requires. I can and do aspire to be greater than the sum total of my experiences but I accept my limitations. I willingly accept that we who judge must not deny the differences resulting from experience and heritage but attempt, as the Supreme Court suggests, continuously to judge when those opinions, sympathies and prejudices are appropriate.

  • spob

    trifecta, pass a law, and I’ll follow it–I have zero issues with laws allowing a person to designate a person to make end-of-life decisions outside of matrimony. I don’t favor gay marriage. I also don’t favor legislative blindness to the appalling cruelty of a parent denying a gay lover the right to visit his or her partner in a hospital. I’m not religious, so I don’t have any moral disapproval of homosexuality. I also don’t want to have society be forced to give its imprimatur to those relationships by allowing gay marriage.
    .
    As for you, fhm, perhaps you ought to re-read article V, which contemplates states initiating the amendment process as well as congress. Second of all, statutes cannot take away life tenure, so her mention of that is just plain silly.

  • spob

    ogliberal, you’ve got to be kidding:

    1) First of all, Congress isn’t the only source of constitutional amendments (see US Const. Article V).
    .
    2) “Congress must give serious considerations to the original intent of the Constitution before proposing an amendment”
    .
    Does it?
    .
    3) The founders intended for justices to serve, essentially, for life to insulate them from “political whims” – ie, the desires and ideologies of those responsible for putting them in their position
    .
    True, but somewhat silly. The plain language of the Constitution grants life tenure (absent impeachment), so the structure is somewhat besides the point.
    .
    Like I said, Sotomayor’s response is head-smacking dumb. First of all, the crisp answer is that Article III section 1 of the Constitution provides for life tenure and that any change will require a Constitutional amendment. Her answer was far from crisp. Second, given that life tenure is what the Constitution provides, what in the world is she talking about when she mentions statutes? Moreover, it almost seems as if she’s suggesting that Congress alone could change the landscape here. Third, even if she is talking about Congress launching a constitutional amendment (a stretch, given her mention of statutes and the failure to be specific), Congress is not the sole place from which Constitutional amendments can emanate, see generally US Const. Art. V, which makes her comment that “[a]ll questions of policy are within the providence of Congress first” exceedingly odd.
    .
    And what to make of this: “And so, that first step and decision would be Congress’.”
    .
    Finally, Sotomayor makes reference to the purpose and structure of the Constitution. But that’s completely unnecessary. The plain language of Article III provides for life tenure (absent impeachment). So there’s no need to go to the structure. Moreover, what in the world does this mean: “But it’d have to consider it in light of the Constitution and then of statutes that govern these issues.” Article III provides an easy answer.

  • fhmadvocat

    spob,

    Yes, we all know that Congress is not the sole source of constitutional amendments. However, the reality is that any change involving federal judges is not coming from any other source. Second, federal judges, while their tenure is for life, are subject to statute. So while her answer was evasive, it was not totally without foundation.

  • Art Pepper

    Spob: I concede you are not a troll. I am personally tired of wading through your posts, but that’s my problem, not yours.

    Engage away.

  • redraven937

    Sotomayor’s answer was ill-informed and amateurish.

    And he would know, given his expert experience with all that is ill-informed and amateurish.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    Well I thought the strategy was going to be let the radio wingnuts scream race, the elected GOP would pat themselves on the back for not repeating it and then they’d send out that little toad Session, who has the least to fear from Hispanic voters, to throw the red meat to the base. Come election time they’d say it wasn’t me and get at least some support from Hispanic voters. Well man plans and God laughs.
    .
    Of course, it had an especially even chance to work since the mainstream press (and that means you to Jay “infamous wise Latina woman comment”) was pushing a narrative that totally obscures what she actually said or meant.
    .
    But the GOP is an extremist group and they do what all extreme groups do — go one step too far. So they’ve thrown in the towel and given up on Hispanic votes. Sessions may have started it, but Lindsay’s meltdown comment is going to be seen in a whole new light now that he has basically told Sotomayor to go sit in the corner and take a time out and think about her bad behavior. How dare he suggest that she wasn’t a good little girl. Perhaps if he Graham had the rich experience of a wise Latina woman he would have known his statements are going to piss off Latinos and women too.

  • deconstructiva

    Just saw KT’s tweet (I’m not on twitter, don’t care to tweet about my lunch) about what Sotomayor is scribbling on her notepad…
    “Don’t they know already that I’m a celebrity? Get me out of here!!!!!!!”
    “Romani ite domum, romani ite domum….”
    “Oh my. This hearing reminds me of ‘Taxi’ scene of Jim taking his driving test, asking Bobby, ‘what does a yellow light mean?’ ‘Slow down.’ ‘Okay, what…does…a…yellow…light…mean?Arrrrrghhhhh!”
    “Baked French Toast: two eggs, four slices of challah bread, cinnamon, milk…”
    “I think Sen. Sessions has a secret crush on me, whew.”

  • deconstructiva

    …more Sotomayor scribblings on her notepad:

    “Whew. If they flipped out over ‘wise Latina’ thingy, wait ‘till they hear about ‘old white guys’ wisecrack back in ’79.”
    “All right, who brought up Aristotle? WRONG! Plato is my deep passion.” *blushing*
    “Where’s that triple mocha flip I ordered?”
    “Mom is falling asleep already. Lucky you.”
    “Sen. Franken, oh please, oh please, oh please tell us Rush jokes and Tina Fey stories. DON’T MAKE ME BEG!!!”
    “Memo to me: pick up ‘Legally Blonde’, ‘Erin Brockovich’, and ‘A Civil Action’ at the Redbox near Kroger tonight. Need more study for tomorrow’s questions.”

  • pafro

    I am still amazed that the Republican team is composed of a racist (accusing other people of prejudice nonetheless), the guy who told his buddy at the D.C. Republican Jesus lodge to have his parents pay his mistress hush money, and two people who lied to the Supreme Court in 2006.
    I suppose it could be worse, they could have trotted out the guy who goes and sees prostitutes dressed in diapers or the guy who got kicked out of the Army for fondling his fellow enlistees.

  • shepherdwong

    “Perhaps if he Graham had the rich experience of a wise Latina woman he would have known his statements are going to piss off Latinos and women too.”

    Exactly. Ironically proving her whole point about experience and too arrogant, cloistered and dumb to even realize it. Just like Sessions playing the racism card. Sure is fun to watch (as long as you can hit the mute anytime buffoons like Matthews or hacks like Blitzer start yammering about as if they understand any of it).

  • Cliff

    Dee – I’m at work and can’t watch the proceedings. Is there a transcript for Lindsey’s comments?

  • deconstructiva

    …more from Sotomayor’s notepad…
    “Sen. Kyl, manners please! ‘Good afternoon’ won’t hurt you. And what is this about amok relatives?”
    “Kyl – point – what is? Question – what is? What??? Where’s my triple berry muffin?”
    “Where’s Sarah? I need someone to distract the photographers so I can sneak out and get some KitKat’s from the vending machine.”
    “Need to ask KT what’s up with SCOTUS health benefits over long island iced teas tomorrow. No one else knows what the heck is going on around here.”
    “Sen. Lindsay Lohan??? I WISH! Stuck with Linds-e-y Graham” *sigh*
    “Can I do the Dean Scream when this is over? Please???”

    (I’m done….)

  • spob

    fhm, your response is nonsensical and counterfactual–you said upthread that only Congress could propose amendments. Admit that.
    .
    So what if federal judges are “subject to statute”? The key issue is whether their tenure is able to be involuntarily restricted by statute, and it’s not.
    .
    And it’s not that the answer was evasive. It was dumb. The reference to statutes was opaque. The idea that Congress should consider the Framers’ purpose, while true, is filler. And the answer ignores the state’s role in proposing a constitutional amendment.

  • http://ktheintz.wordpress.com/ kth

    Given that the average SCOTUS nominee, Republican or Democrat, is usually 3 times smarter than the average committee member, Republican or Democrat, it’s not surprising that there are so few surprises in these things.

  • spob

    The sycophancy in here never ceases to amaze. Face it. Her response to Kohl’s question was silly and looks pretty ill-informed. Can’t you guys just admit that? I cannot imagine Alito or Roberts giving such a dissembling non-crisp answer to a pretty easy question.

  • spob

    kth, I dont think Sotomayor is all that bright–see upthread. Her response on term limits was laughable.

  • http://ktheintz.wordpress.com/ kth

    spob, we heard you the last 10 times you said it.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    I will look

  • pirate wench (demwoman)

    I be disagreein’ wi’ ye ‘ere…spongy be TOO a troll, an’ a scumbag troll, a’ tha’!

    YARR!

  • pafro

    spob, you are totally correct. We should feed her to the dogs (or Mexicans like herself) for being so stupid, and not saying everything amazingly eloquent and correct always like you do.
    -
    We should replace Stupidmayor with the guy who thinks the KKK is great or one of the 2 guys who lied to the Supreme Court or the guy who frolics around in diapers. That will show the lieberals. The replacements are white so they wouldn’t take their pro-diaper/prostitute or pro-lying to The Supreme Court or pro burning crosses prejudices with them because as everyone knows white is a neutral color and the best one because it contains all the other colors and God is white because I have seen the picture of white Jesus mowing down Lieberals with a M-60 and flexing his muscles. I will now put it on mantle and write spob rulz!!! underneath in blood.
    -
    No one will ever doubt you again because you are so awesome and picked such a very important point off that talking points list that got sent to all the trolls that aren’t sycophants. How did you do it?

  • juniusredivivus

    So today told us two things:

    The GOP are ageing, white hypocrites

    SmallPeddlerOfBatsh*t believes in them

    Better pols and better trolls, please.

  • deconstructiva

    Lindsey Graham hearts Sonia Sotomayor per his “I like you” comment (said with wide open eyes, rapid heartbeat / breathing). Secret crush? Next Matalin / Carville? Or Dharma and Greg? Will he learn pickup lines over beers with Mark Sanford? Or does he just want Latino votes?

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    I’m now inspired to go out and get a tattoo that says, “I heart spob”.

  • ogliberal

    Yes, spob, there are other ways to propose a constitutional amendment. But all 27 of ours have been initiated by Congress. The constitutional convention route has never been used. That doesn’t mean it can’t be used or won’t be used in the future – although based on precendent, the likelihood is slim – but I just can’t see why there’s a problem with Sotomayor speaking to the process that’s been followed in this country since the Constitution was established. This isn’t a Constitutional Law class, it’s a SCOTUS confirmation hearing.

    And yeah, the woman could have given a two sentence answer but why not engage in a brief discussion of the original intent of the lifetime tenure of SCOTUS justices, especially to counter Kohl’s argument that this tenure could result in justices being out of touch with society as a whole. (not that Kohl was trying to trip her up)

    Finally, while it’s not written in stone, I think both sides would agree that amending our Constitution should be serious business and that our legislators if not required are obligated to seriously consider the original intent of the document. Again, this isn’t a test for Con Law 101.

  • ohiolib

    Congress must give serious considerations to the original intent of the Constitution before proposing an amendment

    Who’s view, spob? Jefferson’s? Adams’? I hate to break this to you, but the founders frequently disagreed-often quite strongly-about certain issues. The constitution we ended up with is a result of compromises and political log-rolling. That’s why the term “Founder’s intent” is worthless from a practical perspective. Even when there was wide-spread agreement among the founders on an issue, it may not be practical-or possible-to make policy today simply because the country has changed significantly since it was founded. Of course, that assumes the founders where of one mind in the first place. This argument actually has traction among conservatives, and I wonder if it’s just an excuse to be bigoted morons. And, while Sotomayor did avoid the crux of the question-it was about her view, after all-it was hardly bad enough to warrant a no vote.

  • 53_3

    I had made a suggestion to the wingnut threesome about what they felt was worse, Session’s offenses or Sotomayor’s remarks.

    Of course, spob, in his relentless pursuit of “white rights” refused to address the issue, which makes me quite sure that to spob, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with a politician who has provided legal support for laws that inherently violated the Constitutional rights of Black Americans.

    Hope he decides to address this now that you’ve brought it up again. I would definitely like to see where spob stands on the comparison between the two.

  • 53_3

    I would like to see spob address a real issue for once:

    Why is it ok for Sessions to be involved in enforcing Jim Crow laws (in violation of the Constitution, no less) and not ok for Sotomayor to make the statements she did.

    Spob has that rather smelly little dichotomy ‘relentlessly ignore’.

    C’mon spob, you’re a big boy and all, being against racism and all, so speak up!

  • Art Pepper

    How did she refrain from leaping out of her chair to strangle Lindsey Graham?

  • gysgt213

  • Mr. Nice Guy

    Do not underestimate the very real possibility that spob lacks the mental agility to realize that there are some issues – quite a few, actually – that are not discrete binary, yes-and-no issues. The interstitial gray areas that mean so much to so many discussions may simply be beyond the comprehension of spob’s gray matter.

  • http://www.twitter.com/jnsmall Jay Newton-Small

    Third time’s a charm, tnx, FlownOver.

  • Friar Tuck

    Welcome to another exciting episode of Lonesome Spooge’s Cracker Barrel!

    Where real Americans gather to joyfully destroy the last of their functioning neurons.

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/ Shakespeare in GA

    Dead horse beaten, spob. She was asked, essentially, what she thinks about the lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court, whether or not that should be changed. Her answer was basically “we’d have to look really carefully at that.” Was it super-crisp? No. And so what? Do you believe this issue is imperative with regards to whether or not she should be confirmed? Was it worth the large number of words we’ve spent on it? I don’t think so.

    The fact that you keep harping on this one issue and are indignant that she didn’t say something about how states could also institute Constitutional amendments seems pretty weak.

    It also points out how silly the whole confirmation process is. Rather than talk about issues that are relevant and state political preferences (“I want a justice more like Scalia” would be honest and bracing), the Senate engages in this elaborate gamesmanship and kabuki theater. You smoked pot twelve years ago–you’re out! Wait, you didn’t mention how states can being constitutional amendment proceedings–you’re obviously dumb and a hack! (And have fooled several people, including former presidents, for decades.) So we, the public, end up engaging in petty arguments and dissections as well.

  • shepherdwong

    “How did she refrain from leaping out of her chair to strangle Lindsey Graham?”

    Because judges determine consequences, they don’t implement them. That will be for Latino voters to do.

  • FlownOver

    Perfect. Thanks.

  • FlownOver

    And another thread deteriorates into this:

    M: Oh look, this isn’t an argument.
    A: Yes it is.
    M: No it isn’t. It’s just contradiction.
    A: No it isn’t.
    M: It is!
    A: It is not.
    M: Look, you just contradicted me.
    A: I did not.
    M: Oh you did!!
    A: No, no, no.
    M: You did just then.
    A: Nonsense!
    M: Oh, this is futile!
    A: No it isn’t.
    M: I came here for a good argument.
    A: No you didn’t; no, you came here for an argument.
    M: An argument isn’t just contradiction.
    A: It can be.
    M: No it can’t. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
    A: No it isn’t.
    M: Yes it is! It’s not just contradiction.
    A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
    M: Yes, but that’s not just saying ‘No it isn’t.’
    A: Yes it is!
    M: No it isn’t!
    A: Yes it is!
    M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
    (short pause)
    A: No it isn’t.
    M: It is.
    A: Not at all.

  • Art Pepper

    Shorter Lindsey Graham today:

    Does the Constitution mention abortion? Does it? Does it? Does it?

    I like you, but a lot of people hate you. You should think about that.

    Have you ever heard of Al Qaeda?

    As a New Yorker, how do you feel about me using 9/11 to grandstand on national television?

    You said some crrrazy things but you got a pass because you’re a crrrazy Latina. I’m a white person. I’m the victim here!

    You sat on the board of a legal defense fund whose lawyers argued some positions that I don’t agree with, and don’t try to pretend otherwise!

  • yutsano

    Okay, please look at the content of this thread, then tell me what part of this thread did not scream Spob bait. When you can point that out you can go back to playing with him.

  • kevin

    “Sotomayor’s answer was ill-informed and amateurish.”

    Why?

    Every single constitutional amendment that has been successfully passed has been the product of Congress, so she’s right there.

    And life terms for Supreme Court justices have been the standard since 1789 — even as other aspects, like the number of justices, etc. have changed — so she’s right there that it’s a system that had a reason and still does.

    If anyone here is ill-informed and amateurish, it’s you.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks

    While discussing whether her answer was well formed or not we’re ignoring the fact that the question itself was preposterous.

    Lifetime tenure for judges is a feature not a bug and to suggest otherwise is to pander to the LCD among your constituents.

  • shepherdwong

    “While discussing whether her answer was well formed or not we’re ignoring the fact that the question itself was preposterous.”

    Perhaps we’re a bit disoriented after somewhere between eight and thirty years of batsh*t insane or dumb-as-rocks conservative dogma and a news media that’s unable or unwilling to discern sh*t from Shinola.

  • pafro

    Excellent.

  • pafro

    This is the understated point Paul. She could have said, you know, not only is this not something judges are going to vote on, I haven’t exactly seen this come up for a vote much less pass within your nearly worthless branch of government, therefore it is not relevant compared to other topics like human animal hybrids and whether all post offices in the country should be named after Reagan.
    -
    Why don’t we wrap up this line of questioning so you can pass me off to another angry bitter Republican so they can continue to punk themselvesin front of the American electorate?

  • 53_3

    He ran like hell, yuts.

    Just couldn’t take it anymore…

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/ Shakespeare in GA

    Shepherd–see my comment to spob (page 2, #10) about how ridiculous the whole confirmation hearing process is. It is all about senators grand-standing and asking rather silly, partisan questions that play well in the media and among the die-hard constituents back home.

  • shepherdwong

    Agreed. My point was really about why this garbage still plays well anywhere. People don’t know any better because, not only haven’t they haven’t been told that it’s garbage, it’s treated seriously and credulously almost everywhere.

  • apollyon07

    Anyone following the developing story on people attacking Ricci the firefighter?

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/scotus-confirmation-hearings-kabuki-theatrics/ SCOTUS Confirmation Hearings = Kabuki Theatrics « Let It Ride

    [...] from TIME’s Swampland blog (”Playing Good Cop/Bad Cop with Sotomayor?” and “Sotomayor’s Aristotle“)and see what the commenters–especially Sotomayor’s critics–focused [...]

  • yutsano

    Marginally and it torks me off Apo. Whatever Ricci did in his past has zero bearing on Sotomayor’s capacity as a judge or Supreme Court nominee. With any luck it gets dropped, although the fact that Ricci is on the dissent witness list means we won’t hear the last of either Ricci or anyone who seeks to discredit it.

  • shepherdwong

    Ricci…has zero bearing on Sotomayor’s capacity as a judge or Supreme Court nominee. Unless it’s all about empathy. For poor, put upon white men.

  • kevin

    Agreed, and people on the left need to avoid attacking him in the way the Malkin Outrage Brigades went after Graeme Frost.

    Still, it is odd that the right is making a folk hero out of Ricci, when he got his job in the first place by a lawsuit claiming ADA status (for being dyslexic). I guess “the frivolous lawsuit” and “quota” lie in the eye of the beholder.

  • http://phd9.blogspot.com Paul Dirks
  • James, Los Angeles

    I have not seen anyone “attacking” Ricci, the person, except maybe the 75th comment in somebody’s blog thread. Please show all these “attacks” on Mr. Ricci. Now what I have seen is people examining his litigious background and the way he came to bring the lawsuit in question. That isn’t an “attack.” It is a perfectly legitimate area of discussion.

    Under any other circumstances, the looney dumbass right would be bashing Mr. Ricci for bringing “frivolous” lawsuits, stalking him, Bill O would be sending his attack dog out for an ambush interview, and the Malkinites would go looking through his windows at home checking for expensive slate countertops.

  • stuartzechman

    Wow.

    This is not the best thread I’ve ever read at Swampland.

    I’d say it’s quality is consonant with both the hearings and reporting on the hearings that reveals such desiderata as “she prefers to stay with friends when traveling instead of in hotels“.

    I think that the “personal visit with Senators junket”, i.e. “real confirmation process” should be outlawed, otherwise we’re going to continue to get bad Senatorial theater, weak reporting on bad Senatorial theater, superfluous commentary on bad Senatorial theater, and a back-room deal confirmation process instead of an open, transparent, public hearing (the outcome of which is truly yet to be determined).

  • deconstructiva

    …just read JNS new story per PD’s link, thanks. She brought up the Aristotle thingy again (anyone notice? hello?) but left out the “Legally Blonde” reference andlost chance to hook Reese fans there. Thanks for the story, Jay. Most Senate members seemed to be too wrapped up in Plato-like reason vs. passion chariot race to (or from) Truth, especially the passion part. Aristotle’s reason is badly needed here and Sotomayor needs to keep this up. That aside, did Jay leave that part in from her blog reasoning that if Aristotle ref. did NOT start a pie fight, everyone loved it? Well, I did (and am not a Classics scholar). But what was Sotomayor saying in story’s photo caption? I’d guess, “Hey Harriet, wish you were here! BWAHAHAHA!”

  • FlownOver

    I have nothing personal against Ricci, who did what’s permitted (i.e., try to advance his personal circumstances by use of the legal system). I suspect he’s now succumbed to the airtime virus and want to extend his metaphorical fifteen minutes – he’s human.

    Unfortunately he appears to lack the self-awareness to understand the totality of his circumstances. His role in the Sotomayor confirmation unvoidably will diminish his standing as his inconsistency is exposed – along with the wingers’ highly selective opposition to “judicial activism.” He risks being transformed by the Right into “Joe the Fireman,” and anyone in his line of work deserves better.

  • 53_3

    I think also that given there is two sides to every legal action, Ricci isn’t someone who should be attacked.

    However, and this is a widespread problem, Ricci and others who may or may not have a legitimate gripe legally, have been latched onto by the racist element*.

    This invariably causes kneejerk responses on both sides, which have no relevancy whatsoever as far as Sotomayor is concerned.

    *I mean the GOP racist element, which is becoming entrenched and endemic in what remains of that party. The Dems have some too, but there is no equivalency.

  • spob

    Guys, Sotomayor’s answer betrayed a lack of familiarity with basic issue. First of all, she was right, it was a policy question. Kohl was looking for her opinion on a policy matter, which she could have (a) either easily given or (b) said, you know, I really haven’t thought about the pros and cons of the issue to have formed an opinion and then said that the framers provided for life tenure of judges. Instead of that, she said that policy questions are within the “providence” [sic] of Congress (not sure that’s 100% the case, especially with Constitutional issues) and launched into a bizarre discussion that, quite bluntly, sounds more like a beauty pageant answer than a judge’s answer to a Senator. She talked about statutes, which have no relevance whatsoever. And she goatroped the “where amendments come from” question.

  • Dee in Columbia MD

    While I agree with many who believe that these confirmation hearings are showcasing the Senate in what is clearly not their finest hour, I disagree with those who view these events as unimportant and ultimately a waste of time. Let’s not forget that most Americans spend little time viewing our politicians at work, nor do they generally have any basis to determine the accuracy of what the mainstream press decides to report. This confirmation process is important because it represents one of those rare opportunities where the American public, even through only snippets on the nightly news get an excellent opportunity to gage the scope of Republican debauchery and media incompetency.

  • Art Pepper

    In fact I did look up the Aristotle quote yesterday, geek that I am.

    It is from Politics Bk III, where he lays out the arguments against absolute monarchy. Essentially his dialectic is that an asbolute monarch either follows the law, or follows his own whims (appetites).

    One who follows the law is obviously better than one who follows his own whims. But law is reason, and two heads are better than one. Therefore, an absolute monarch who follows the law will be no better than, and probably worse than, an oligarchy of equals — the system favored by Aritstotle.

  • Art Pepper

    via AP: Coburn: “What the American people want to see is what your gut says.”

    Speaking of Aristotle.

    Shouldn’t the GOP get their story straight? Do they want judges to uphold the law or don’t they?

  • spob

    This judge sure seems to use a lot of malapropisms, doesn’t she?

  • anghiari

    “We are entering a time when people speak of judicial activism without realizing that the issue more and more is conservative judicial activism. The great hot button issues that we are talking about, guns, property, reverse discrimination are cases where those who favor conservative viewpoints want judges to set aside decisions made by Congress, state legislatures, local governments; the elected representatives…and more and more that is the issue as to whether judicial power will be used to invalidate what popularly elected governments have done and to do so in the name of certain conservative values”

    Walter Dellinger, American Professor, Duke University, Former Solicitor General to the Supreme Court. Statement he made on Charlie Rose Show on July 13, 2009…www.charlierose.com
    Watch the video!

  • spob

    perhaps, anghiari, you could explain why Sotomayor doesn’t seem to understand the modern fundamental rights analysis:
    .
    http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_07_12-2009_07_18.shtml#1247671867
    .
    This judge doesn’t seem all that bright. Obama would have been better served to have nominated Kagan.

  • hermitcrab56

    I liked your post till the end; “This confirmation process is important because it represents one of those rare opportunities where the American public, even through only snippets on the nightly news get an excellent opportunity to gage the scope of Republican debauchery and media incompetency.”

    I think you’re robbing the Democratic Senators of their due. While the Repubs set a high standard of debachery the Dems more than held their own. The Repubs are just playing tit-for-tat for the boorish behavior of the Dems during the last set of nominations. It’s how the dance steps go. Sotomayor will be nominated and will be a fine judge.

  • retiredsoldier

    As a sitting judge, Sotomayor must weigh her words when she speaks outside the world of the courtroom because what she says can influence court cases. That said, I’d be glad – if I were you – that she saw fit to say that much since the Republicans were waiting in the grass for her to give the kind of detail they could use against her.

  • retiredsoldier

    Sotomayor uses a very old lawyer’s tactic where they write down what witness has said so they can refer to it when they ask questions, and they also quote it when they throw it back in the Witness’ face when they controdict themselves. in her case, she is transcribing what her inquisitors are asking so that she can refer to it to keep herself in context when she give them her answer. It is one of the reasons why she has yet to come out with any comments that the Republicans can jump on as grist for their mill.

  • retiredsoldier

    Spob.

    Please let that poor horse die in peace! After all, it is illegal to be cruel to animals!

  • retiredsoldier

    Pafro.

    Judge Sotomayor is NOT a Mexican. She is a Puerto Rican. There are numerous differences besides the different national origin of her Parents.

  • retiredsoldier

    If she gave that sort of reply, it would qualify as a “Melt Down” that would disqualify her from Confirmation. Catch 22.

  • randvek

    spob, where did you go to law school? Just curious.

  • retiredsoldier

    The only problem with her response – as far as the Republicans were concerned – is that she knows enough to write out their questions so she can refer to them when she loses her train of thought; knows enough to think clearly as to what she wants to say, and then says it in as few words as possible given the fact that she is a trained lawyer, and train lawyers often say in 10 words what you and I would say in one or two.

    Obviously she has no intent to blow this Confirmation, given the number of Obama’s choices who have had to remove themselves from consideration, and possibly embarrass Obama and herself.

  • retiredsoldier

    The Conservative Republicans just can’t let a good chance to dive for the bottom of the pool go by, no matter what their advisors may tell them.

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/ Shakespeare in GA

    Nobody who is up for SCOTUS confirmation is going to give clear-cut, well-defined positions on matters of policy. Especially matters of policy that are likely to come before SCOTUS. It would be political suicide. If Sotomayor said, for instance, “I think interpretations of the 2nd Amendment have been stretched too far with respect to gun laws,” she would be pilloried by the GOP. I don’t know if that’s what she thinks. But her careful response to a question about fundamental gun rights reveals a central meme to these hearings: the only thing nominees will talk about at length, besides their own records, is their reverence for the law and for precedent. Then, once they don the black robes, they go ahead and do what they think is best, regardless of what they said in their confirmation hearings. (Again, read Toobin’s New Yorker article on John Roberts as evidence: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/25/090525fa_fact_toobin.)

  • http://teacherreaderwriter.wordpress.com/ Shakespeare in GA
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